Open 675: Pick Your Power X/Y (Game Over!)

[Persivul]

VOTE: Gigabyte

[Persivul]

and I think that there's probably one scum at least in the 1s

There's nothing to suggest that other than chance

I agree with lyon - there's probably one scum in the 1s, thought being

there's three of us, one of us should take it just in case no one does

. But, since 1/5 is no better than 3/14, that doesn't help yet.

[Persivul]

gigabyte looks like artificial tryharding at a glance and trying way too hard to look town while others are more natural.

Yep.

[Persivul]

@gigabyte: how many previous runs of this setup did you research?

[Persivul]

Lyon, I see that you don't have any newbie games. I take it then you're an alt?

[Persivul]

Do you think it was something mafia didn't know?

Do you think such clumsiness is more likely to come from scum than from town? In my experience both say stupid setup shit. Seems like you're going after low-hanging fruit.

[Persivul]

There's no solid reason for me to tr/sr people in these early pages.

Yeah, really. I've never seen so many reads tossed about less than 1 calendar day into the game.

[Persivul]

VOTE: Killthestory

[Persivul]

Yes, you have.

what are you on about

I don't find you scummy, I just don't like you.

[Persivul]

I am an alt. Please don't discuss nor attempt to discover nor disclose my identity if you discover it. I have chosen to play this game secretly for a reason and I would like it to stay that way.

That's fine, I just asked because it seemed at the time like people were piling on the newbie, so I wanted to know if you are a newbie or not.

[Persivul]

fair enough, though you should stop being a baby and play like a big boy

We're barely into phase, there's plenty of time for that.

[Persivul]

8 - Seemed odd that you would open with a researched read on dunnstral. Also thought it was odd that, having done research, you didn't know that you could pick any number in the draft. Plus, I hate pictures. Later (before you mentioned it BTW) I noticed that you were in that game with dunn, and so it made more sense.

28 - "also i can get down w the prince lyon wagon." Vote with no reason - OK, it's early, and some people like early wagons for reactions. But, 3 posts and 12 minutes later in 35 you change the vote to Spade. So, there's no reason for the lyon vote. Plus, in 33 you (at least I think you're referring to yourself, the wording is bad) you townread dunn and wheme. On page 2. Like WTF?

43 - trying to be a leader on page 2. Don't like it.

52 - lyon is now town

55 - pretty good post until the last line, which could be self conscious. Overall the pace and the throwing out town reads feels lamist.

[Persivul]

Lol. I am Prince. Prince is me. You are Prince. We are Princes.

Goo goo ga joob

[Persivul]

Caught up but it felt really disjointed reading it. In part because it took 3 reading sessions.

This is traditionally the point at which you, you know, share your thoughts on what you've read and stuff.

Just announcing that you read it doesn't do much.

[Persivul]

You scattering your vote around looks like that too...

[Persivul]

VOTE: Spade

[Persivul]

VOTE: Titus

[Persivul]

Nothing to see here!

[Persivul]

^^Wrong game. Sorry, I'm sick as a dog, brain isn't functioning well.

mod, please blank that out.

[Persivul]

UNVOTE:

In this setup, first seed (Titus) should be here obvtowning herself. Disappointing that she isn't. That said, I'm not lynching first seed on D1. Gotta give her the opportunity for a night action and see what happwens.

Generally I don't read into replace outs, but this one was weird. Personally I play this setup because the draft mechanism is unique. Someone winning first seed then saying they can't get into the game is bizarre.

[Persivul]

by first seed do you mean the top portion of the draft

because schadd_ is technically the first seed...?

I shouldn't play sick. Was looking at the player list, not the draft...

That makes the replace out less weird.

[Persivul]

why should we be obvtowning ourselves?

In a typical setup it's reasonable for PRs to want to lay somewhat low, as they don't want to be so obvtown that they take the NK. In this setup, the top slot (you) is definitely a PR, and the next couple probably are. If you're town, there's already a target on your back, so no need to lay low. So, obvtowning yourself is helpful. IIRC in one of these we lynched the cop (top slot) on D2 because she thought that, as cop, she shouldn't draw attention to herself, which in fact did draw bad attention to her.

[Persivul]

Titus is at L-1. Please claim.

The facepalm seems to indicate that you disapprove of the L-1. So, why did you ask for a claim, instead of asking for an unvote?

[Persivul]

VOTE: Penguin

What's up? I see you have plenty of time to post in other games...

[Persivul]

How does that make him scum??

How can you ask such a bad question?

VOTE: Spade

[Persivul]

I don't Think Pp would lurk this bad as a scum. All he does is prod dodge. That brings too much attention. I doubt scum would do that.

So you think lurkers should get a pass because, hey, scum wouldn't do that. Got it!

[Persivul]

hey don't get a pass. Which is why I tried pressurising him initially by talking about prod and saying that he wasn't contributing much. But voting him for that is just plain stupid according to.me.

Talk doesn't pressure, votes do. You've played enough to know that. Why are you pretending otherwise?

p-edit: See? Betelgeuse!

[Persivul]

I do. So what?

So devote some of that time to this game obviously.

[Persivul]

The only problem is that following 2 posts i.e. 557 and 579 look quite townie and genuine scumhunting and attemots to futher the game. So am putting Persi in a "To be looked at later" list-

I'm having difficulty getting into this game because: as noted I was sick (starting to improve now); giga's constant posting.

[Persivul]

Giga seems too at ease to be scum.

[Persivul]

I am at Persivul Shade Bang.

That's bullshit Titus. I switched a vote early on D1. BFD.

[Persivul]

Why do you keep trying to work with someone you scum read?

[Persivul]

Alright it doesn't feel like Alban is happening today and I'm not having another game where I caught Titus scum and didn't lynch her because of personal reasons.
I would rather lynch Alban if we can get a wagon going there but

VOTE: Titus

I really need something from you if you're town here because everything that you've done today points to you being scum and even if you're town you're likely wrong about Spade_Ace.
I want to point out that you disagreed with me about how to correctly gauge your reads but I correctly ignored you in 200 and also correctly pointed out in the open that your Grey read was likely to be correct.
So if you're town here you are wrong here >90% of the time and need to do something else.

Come vote up Alban with me?

Why did you want Titus to vote with you when you just voted her, and believe that "everything that you've done today points to you being scum"?

[Persivul]

Why do you keep trying to work with someone you scum read?

this question is how confirmation bias happens

How so?

You don't find it odd at all that he strongly scum reads and votes a person, yet in the same post asks that person to vote along with them against a third? It's bizarre behavior.

[Persivul]

VOTE: persivul

If Lyon is scum, this is a chainsaw.

[Persivul]

if you refuse to cooperate with somebody that you think is scum, on D1, then that will wither away your desire to actually figure them out and put you on autopilot.

This is incredibly bad, but not necessarily scummy.

[Persivul]

schadd, are you an alt?

[Persivul]

schadd, are you an alt?

no

OK. You're more likely just talking out of your ass, than chainsawing.

[Persivul]

Do you think that I'm scum for voting you Persivul?

I'm more concerned about you simultaneously claiming to scum-read Titus while also trying to buddy up to her.

[Persivul]

i mean, you're really just proving my point. you're not making any effort to convince me that the interaction between lyon and titus is fishy,

Should I be? Why are you so important?

[Persivul]

i'm an eleventh of the town, and an eighth of a lynch. do you only want to convince important people?

No - I'm not trying to convince ANYONE at this point. I don't have strong enough reads. I rarely do before a few flips.

[Persivul]

Dunn does read as town, i.e. his play is crap. In my last game with him he actually pretended to play and I town read him, only to see him flip red. I wasn't the only person to comment on it.

That said...I'm concerned that, after that game, he sees a need to mix up his meta.

[Persivul]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=69970

[Persivul]

I'm not so sure that Titus is scum anymore and I'd rather try to do something that we can both get behind to try to read her better.

"Anymore"? You did it

in a single post

.

[Persivul]

WTF was that wheme?

[Persivul]

VOTE: Whemeplay

[Persivul]

UNVOTE: Whemeplay

OK, I'll bite - what's with the unvote?

[Persivul]

I'm not so sure that Titus is scum anymore and I'd rather try to do something that we can both get behind to try to read her better.

"Anymore"? You did it

in a single post

.

Fiction. Why should I stick with voting Spade and not sheep PL?

WTF does that even mean? Did you intend to quote me there?

[Persivul]

Yeah so what I was thinking was that like my behaviour around Titus slot is the kind of thing that scum could push on if they needed to because it does directly involve me going against my reads
but it's the kind of thing that doesn't really make sense as scum and that I wouldn't expect anyone to scumread, particularly if they know who I am. And I really don't see how you read scum into my Titus interactions.

So, since I said it was bizarre (i.e. doesn't make sense) but I didn't vote you, and actually voted someone else, I presume you town read me now.

[Persivul]

i'd like him to answer my question soon too

What question.

[Persivul]

Especially given how they dropped it it feels like a lazy attempt to throw shade rather than underpinning any actual read. I wouldn't be surprised if the progression there was something like Persivul making the posts calling me scum and Shade scum for the 'chainsaw', then someone else in scumchat coaching that it's a terrible idea and to go push on someone else.

Did I scum read you?

[Persivul]

I mean I guess but considering EM and other site experience I would put quite a few people at this table as more experienced than Persi. And you don't have to be more experienced to tell a buddy in daytalk to shift gears.

I'm crap as town, but if I were scum, you wouldn't know it. My last scum partners called me a "shiny golden god."

[Persivul]

i think your thought process makes sense and i get where you're coming from but after a post like 732 why follow up with a vote on whemeplay?

yeah i guess it was directed at lyon even though i said you could answer the rhetorical question so i'll rephrase

did you find what lyon was doing scummy?

Read my posts. I found it odd. I found it bizarre. I found it concerning - I didn't say why, but specifically I was concerned he was scum buddying up to Titus as she's one of the most experienced players, but scum reading her at the same time so that the buddying wouldn't be so obvious to her. In the end, I didn't find it suspicious enough to vote. Now, with his explanation, I find it tedious. Traps like that are more likely to snare town than scum.

[Persivul]

Well it felt to me like that's what you were doing. What's your read on my slot?

When you go putting on an act to try to trap people, you just fuck up the game. You can't successfully lay a trap unless you've first totally obvtowned yourself, and you haven't done that. Frogger used to be good at it. I read you slightly north of null.

[Persivul]

Hi guys. I posted one thing and my dad said it was dumb and said I can't post again . So I get day 2 and he gets day 1

-Wheme

Then get off the game and go do your homework.

[Persivul]

Yeah so what I was thinking was that like my behaviour around Titus slot is the kind of thing that scum could push on if they needed to because it does directly involve me going against my reads
but it's the kind of thing that doesn't really make sense as scum and that I wouldn't expect anyone to scumread, particularly if they know who I am.

That sounds like you're saying you were laying a trap.

[Persivul]

i don't think he was trying to trap titus though i don't really get that?

Not Titus - me, or anyone who would question why he would scum read and vote someone, then in the same fucking post plead with the person voted to vote together on a third person. It's completely stupid play. About the only thing dumber than that is scum reading someone for questioning it. Traps are bad, but I can at least respect the attempt. If it wasn't a trap, he's just a fucking idiot. You push your scum reads, you don't hold hands and sing kumbayah with them.

[Persivul]

@ Wheme: All you have to do is use different skins for different accounts.

[Persivul]

Yeah so what I was thinking was that like my behaviour around Titus slot is the kind of thing that scum could push on if they needed to because it does directly involve me going against my reads
but it's the kind of thing that doesn't really make sense as scum and that I wouldn't expect anyone to scumread, particularly if they know who I am. And I really don't see how you read scum into my Titus interactions.

So, since I said it was bizarre (i.e. doesn't make sense) but I didn't vote you, and actually voted someone else, I presume you town read me now.

They are still voting you...

Yeah, it was sarcasm.

[Persivul]

i can confirm that if schadd doesn't claim 1-shot commuter he is mod confirmed scum.

VOTE: schadd claim

WTF?

[Persivul]

Titus I want to point out that last time you were discrediting one of my 'tunnels' I was voting scum and you were hard defending aforementioned scum based on associatives.

What game was that?

[Persivul]

alban is my top choice but that wagon doesnt seem to get momentum any more

Because it's high in the draft. The first couple of people are highly likely to be PRs. It's the middle people, like spade and me, that scum want to figure out. They're not really concerned about the mislynch yet - still lots of time for that.

[Persivul]

High as in 1 is best place in the draft, 14 (higher number) is worst.

[Persivul]

no

Why

[Persivul]

i believe open 666

Lyon isn't in that. Is Lyon an RC alt?

[Persivul]

i believe open 666

Lyon isn't in that. Is Lyon an RC alt?

maybe. none of us have really been able to tell, really

What's the deal Lyon? I generally respect alts, but if you're going to publicly reference games in which this alt didn't play, you may as well just be open about it.

[Persivul]

The setup pretty much auto balances through NKs. If top 3 are town, they get picked off at night. If D3 they're all still there, they either need to have shown some results or they get lynched.

[Persivul]

Actually I asked that but I don't really feel enthusiastic about wagoning Dunnstral right now. I'll take that as a gut read and follow it.

VOTE: Schadd

Yeah, why give the top seed a night to produce?

VOTE: Prince Lyon

[Persivul]

Go for it. With RC in the game I'd rather be out anyway.

[Persivul]

Then subout. If you think someone is in the game and you cannot respect them, sub out. Don't gamethrow, which you are, regardless of alignment. It makes the game less fun.

Who's to say my lynch won't be good for town? There's going to be scum on it. Ain't no way you're getting 8 of 9 town to agree on anything.

[Persivul]

11 town

OK, you're not getting 8 of 10 town to agree on anything.

[Persivul]

alban is my top choice but that wagon doesnt seem to get momentum any more

Because it's high in the draft. The first couple of people are highly likely to be PRs.

It's the middle people, like spade and me, that scum want to figure out.

They're not really concerned about the mislynch yet - still lots of time for that.

no

VOTE: persivul

VOTE: persivul

VOTE: Persivul

VOTE: Persivul

VOTE: persivul

[Persivul]

At least one scum in {schadd, Titus}

[Persivul]

Lols, if you're going to just point at the end voters and argue scum must be in there,

No, I looked for people on both my wagon and spade's.

[Persivul]

No, it's not coincidental at all.

[Persivul]

Why the sudden switch to longer posts?

[Persivul]

Actually I asked that but I don't really feel enthusiastic about wagoning Dunnstral right now. I'll take that as a gut read and follow it.

VOTE: Schadd

Yeah, why give the top seed a night to produce?

VOTE: Prince Lyon

VOTE: persivul

^ Scum vote.

It's D1, you're town, you've been taking some pressure and just got voted again. Then someone sticks up for you. That gives you a feeling of relief. Yeah, you know buddying is a possibility, but you don't turn on the person in your corner that quickly.

[Persivul]

might be a scum in here

Thank you Mr. Obvious!

Throw a dart toward the top of the draft board and you're likely to hit scum.

[Persivul]

Titus Lil Uzi Vert i dont like u so i might just lynch you later but u can be town
Dunnstral town
schadd_ town
gigabyteTroubadour town
PenguinPower um u can be scum bECAUSE ur A LURKER LAL
WhemePlay town but funny town
Killthestory scum
davesaz disgusting scum
alban scum
bangthemafia scum
Spade_Ace um probably town
Transcend town
Prince Lyon town
Persivul town

Your scum reads are just the lowest posters. Yeah, scum like to lurk, but if you're going to be this lazy, why bother?

[Persivul]

How did you go from I'm scum for FOSing the first seed to calling the first seed's vote a scum vote and saying that the top of the draft board is likely to be scum?

Read my fucking posts, I explained it.

[Persivul]

Furthermore, you're even further wrong because you've already claimed vanilla town. (or you're pigeonholed into claiming it) I'm going to give scum some respect here and understand that they'd have picked up on that from the way you've reacted to pressure.

Since you've put that out there, decreasing my chance of drawing a NK, I'll claim. Yes, I'm VT. I chose universal backup, the flip side of which is rolecop. Seems unlikely that the first 3 slots (this is assuming that Spade's claim is legit) would choose backup to get a role somewhat at random, when there's a high chance that they can get their desired role. So, it's likely that there's a rolecop in the top 3, and rolecop is much better for scum in this setup than town.

I highly doubt scum care at all about what role you've got if you're town.

Since they probably chose rolecop, I think they are pretty interested in who has what role.

And why do you "highly doubt" that? Even without my info, scum are generally interested in town PRs. What site are you playing at if you think otherwise?

[Persivul]

Can I get a full readslist?

No, but you can give one.

[Persivul]

Trade you

Why? You're already voting me. I've seen no indication that you're concerned that you're actually voting town. I don't get the feeling that you want it because you're genuinely trying to sort me.

[Persivul]

The fact that I've been putting up real content but, instead of analyzing that, you ask for a readslist, indicates that you want it because you're: scum who wants to build a case on me but can't find fault with what I'm saying; or, town in a tunnel who wants to build a case on me because tunnel.

[Persivul]

I can just lynch you then.

Go ahead.

I am trying to understand the trajectory of your reads on me and schadd because it doesn't make sense.

No, you're not. If that was your intent, you would have read my existing posts and then asked follow-up questions. A full reads list isn't necessary to "understand the trajectory of [my] reads on [you] and schadd."

[Persivul]

Should I reveal what PR I missed out on??

Probably, but wait awhile and see if there's protest.

[Persivul]

@Persivul being placed 5th why would you opt for rolecop/universal backup when you know for sure you won't get it?

Know for sure? You haven't done your research. Based on prior runs, that role was the useful role that I had the best chance of getting. I likely could have gotten neighborizer/fruit vendor or 1X commuter/watcher, but that's kinda BFD.

[Persivul]

I don't Think Pp would lurk this bad as a scum. All he does is prod dodge. That brings too much attention. I doubt scum would do that.

So you think lurkers should get a pass because, hey, scum wouldn't do that. Got it!

Yes, I can see where that's basically a scum claim.

[Persivul]

(I don't like bang saying persi is obvtown then quoting random things frm his iso to try to defend him)

Scum motivation for defending me there was nil, regardless of my alignment.

[Persivul]

I'm going out tonight with the wife to an event. So I won't be able to contribute much this evening.

And that's different from the rest of the game how?

[Persivul]

just looks like bad white knighting that he can't properly back up

You don't back up shit.

[Persivul]

Seriously, another hangman post and I'm out of here. Waste of time.