Open 679: Jungle Oligarchy (Game OVER)

[lucca261]

6 pages.

Hey guys, whats shaking?

Hey Hans. I'm thinking you are scum. Talk to me.

[lucca261]

Grey is town.
Riley is null.
Not feeling Uzi. Prob scum.

When I have access to a computer will post moar

[lucca261]

meh. re read Hans and he"s null. what did you think of my entrance?
the problem is that my gut still says you're scum.

[lucca261]

what read do you want an explanation, hans?
happy to play with you again

[lucca261]

your 136 was probably the first game content from you, right?

disturbing amount of fluff and also I don't really buy your reaction to being voted. seems fake. the don't care attitude, I mean.

null scum

whats your read on me?

[lucca261]

I liked Grey exchange with you, and also his vote on Space/Spade/whatevs Ace. His egotrip is probably town. He is putting a target on himself.

The null read is a null read.

I want to talk to you more before stating my reasons for scumreading you.

[lucca261]

god this game. painful

@space, 141, what's your read on the whole LUV-Riley situation?

@LUV, 144, he had, like, three posts with content. not sure why you're defending Spade here.

---

somebody engage with me, reading all these pages made me brainless.

VOTE: Superhans

fine place to put a vote.

---

grey is still town.
BTD is prob town.

hey matt, you go after Grey, you got a problem with me. so explain your vote.
---

I had accidentaly posted this in another game. It's not updated now, but still works.

[lucca261]

Superhans is scum. Look closely at 276. it's pure LAMIST. the first sentence reads:

"hey, I'm Superhans, look at how concerned I am about lynching scum. i'm town"

his vote is also inconsistent with the rest of his game. and it comes after QT says Spade is a nice vote.

[lucca261]

still love you Hans, it's just that you are scum.

[lucca261]

not feeling the Momo/Omega lynch.

---

LUV is probably right Veebs was a Momo alt. Momo's posts about Veebs were so fake. well, props of playing mafia.

[lucca261]

point me some posts you didn't like from Spade.

[lucca261]

this is scum hans.

ChaosOmega is probably scum too for his comments on Hans at 317. but different factions.

[lucca261]

why do you changed votes, hans?

[lucca261]

wasn't omega obvscum hans? so you changed your vote to a weaker scumread, with a smaller wagon? this is bullshit, and a good start as to why you're cum hans.

[lucca261]

scum hans. scum

[lucca261]

big catchup coming up, let's go.

[lucca261]

like LUV engagement with Hans on 328, 330, 332. probably town.

336, @hans, if I know your scum game, wouldn't I know if you were scum? you make no sense here. but that's NAI.

345, @QuickHydra, what's your analysis of the wagon? talk to me. are you scum reading me?

Grey is so town. that unvote and vote are so town. there's nothing to gain for scum!Grey to unvote Hans. solid.

---

LUV and Grey are town.

358, @LUV, hey, can you do a case on town!Hans, because my head is getting conflicted. will use this space to do a read on Hans:

Spoiler:

I'm actually divided on him. When we played, whenever he was scumread hans usually panicked and started flailing. like, crazy. so initially I've scumread him to test this. his panic pings me as a tactic that he could use as scum.
But what gets me conflicted is that he played exactly like that with me. Me and havingfitz coached him to not do it. So it would be not a good plan for him do the exact same thing.
On the other point, re-reading his posts I see an opportunistic player, who is trying to use everything and everybody to get pressure off him and to project this pressure on another player. I was trying to get a reaction from him, got the reaction and I'm confused as fuck to what it means. my honest read on hans.

363, @quick, his 163 is such a risky entrance to do as scum. he blatantly disregards the entire thread and posts a NAI statement. I don't see scum being so careless. Granted, I don't have much experience with scum!BTD, so that's why he's

probably

town.

forgot that Riley was in this game. I know, ironic coming from me.

367, @riley, good point from Riley. agree.

369, @riley, didn't see what was so scummy about Momo at the first place. he was way less scummy than he is on other games. did not think that his vote on Riley was that bad. Omega entrance was okay. I didn't like an opportunistic comment that he made on hans, but, beside that, he's townie. will try to do a wagon analysis after I watch the football game.

[lucca261]

going to watch the game, i'll be back at halftime.

[lucca261]

i'm still catching up. stopped at page 16.

[lucca261]

379, @hans, here is what I don't like about him. look at this statement. is scummy in nature and he has no regard throwing it out there. so scum would have zero advantage in stating that. this is a constant theme on Hans ISO. sometimes I think he's throwing this stuff on purpose. and I don't like it.

382, @hans, not tunneling you. stating this is a blatant misrep of my play, but whatevs. explained on my other catchup why I'm townreading BTD. are you only asking that because someone else asked it too or are you really concerned about it?

hey LUV. what do you think of my theory as to why hans is doing that?

399, @quick, on other games I've read from you, especially LQ, you seem more active and connected to the game? any reason as to why you seem so distant this game?

---

401, @hans, do a legitimate case on momo, and I'll unvote you.

hey tea guy, what's your concern with riley?

strangely, while I disagree with almost everything matt has thrown, I'd say his catchup earned town points with me. I just can't see how you can townread QT. I even can see Hans. QT is just popping in, asking random questions, and not following up on them. will answer matt read on me on another post.

[lucca261]

Lucca -

somebody engage with me, reading all these pages made me brainless.

Sure I'll engage with you. How do you get a town read on BTD6 after only one post, and that one post was him saying that he doesn't think Riley is annoying?(LT asked this too but Im also curious) Also why are you so aggressive this game? Especially towards Hans. You were chill in the mininormal I played with you, and didn't have this amount of confidience. It's really off-putting.

Also about your townread of Grey. He's abrasive, and puts himself out there as scum too. And I'm not sure what you mean exactly about his egotrip. Can you point me to some stuff that makes Grey town to you.

Last thing about Hans. You've played with him before when you were both scum. How was he in that game? This game he seems like an open book, and is just stream of conscious posting. Feels to me like he posts anything that comes to mind which may be why he is flopping all over the place with his reads. Did he play like this as scum? I'm used to seeing newer players play more reserved as scum. You said that Grey is putting himself out there, but isn't Hans doing the same thing?

the question about BTD I think I answered.

I'm naturally a more agressive player as both alignments. but in that game, I was a PR. I was trying to float under the radar, on my own unique way. The confidence part will sound arrogant as fuck, but I realized that it turned out I'm actually good at this little game.

I liked Grey engagement with both Hans and Riley. 93 and 80 is what I was talking about his egotrip. I don't know. More of a gut read on these posts, but I've read them as town.

on my game with hans, I'd say his defenses were close to what they are now. in that game he had weirdly more confidence to go after players who were widely townread such as Magna or Doomfeathers. thing he's not doing here with Grey.

viewtopic.php?p=8722471&user_select%5B% ... 2#p8722471

here's his ISO on that game. interesting read.

[lucca261]

wtf.

just skimmed this thread.

after the re-read, how is qt not voting me? I really don't get it.

[lucca261]

436: @hans, I don't see how you can say that he knew his reason was bogus. is this the only reason?

439: @hans, of course I have a monopoly of information over other players. I'm just saying I'm not tunneling you. I also have good reasons to suspect you. I'll number them:

1. disturbing amounts of flailing.
2. clearly sheeping other players thoughts.
3. trying too hard to appease a scumread.
4. your change from Omega to Spade.
5. lack of voting Grey.
6. lots and lots of LAMIST.

I just don't know if that is a town player who really does not want to die and is throwing everything to make sure he survives, or scum. this is what I'm trying to determine.

440: @hans, I see what you're trying to do, but I'll answer anyway:

that Spade readlist just feels fake to me. I mean, he has only one scumread, and that is on a lurker. gut.

Posted lot of catchups, used them to don't engage on real time with other players, tunneled a player to death and used that to don't throw a lot of other reads.
also, a lot of IIoA, as RC said.

now a question for you: do you see similarities on that game and this one?

---

meh. page 19 is not so strong for grey. don't like his four first posts. don't see a Spade/Hans team, too.

miareppy.

459: something about this pings me. I feel like this is scum trying to go with the flow of the game.

fuck. starting to think hans is town. his page 19 is actually good.

I actually think that Tea is scum coasting on the possible TvT. (or OtherFaction vs T, at least)

[lucca261]

fuck there's four more pages.

---

also the vote from Tea on omega is really bad.

grey vs hans is getting me tired. holy shit.

I don't have any thoughts on page 20. call me scum all you want.

---

about QT re-read:

Spoiler:

I like it a lot, even if his reads are wrong. He's engaged, asking questions and his change of minds about Grey and Riley feel town.

I'll answer the parts about me:

Lucca's initial reads in his intro in 128 and 129 feel off and I want those better explained.

fine. grey read is easy. I liked his initial push on Hans and his pressure vote onto Spade, given that I was thinking to do the same when I read Spade post. He was seeing things from the same perspective as myself. that makes grey likely town.

the riley part actually shows my inability at reading posters like her or similar. I still view Riley to be null, because I don't know how to read her comments.

LUV part? I don't know what I was thinking. I think I didn't like a post of him defending hans. he is one of the towniest players on the game, though.

133 is bad. I don't like the backpedaling when interrogated. Still uses "his gut" to paint him as scum. Bad bad bad.

I go back and forth about hans a lot. but I still can't shake the feeling that he's scum. also, I wasn't interrogated or under any pressure? It would be easy just to scumread him for any motive rather than backpedaling?

325 looks way too opportunistic.

you don't find it strange? I'll agree it looks opportunistic.

thought there was more.
still don't see how you are not voting me.

534: @quick, agree about omega, actually. what do you think of tea vote on him? could he be parking his vote on Omega and letting Grey and Hans destroy themselves?

and more fucking grey vs hans

[lucca261]

QT, would like your input based on Open 669. have you read that game?

BTD seems to be late on his input. I think it's quite funny, actually. not scummy, though.

go to bed hans dammit.

---

can somebody tunnel me so I can get out of Hans vs Grey death match?

[lucca261]

I'm saying I don't like Tea vote. that's all.

all my points about hans can be true if he is desperate town. I need to read his tone to find out if he truly is.

[lucca261]

unnoficial VT because I'm really needing one right now:

---

Hans (4): Omega, LUV, Grey, Riley
Grey (2): Fred, Hans
Omega (2): Tea, QT
Spade (1): Matt
LUV (1): PimHel
QT (1): Spade
Tea (1): Lucca
Not Voting (1): BTD

VOTE: Tea

[lucca261]

On second thought I can't tell if lucca's non existent reason for Scum reading tea is meant to fail or reaction test.

~Both Quick

i'm scumreading him honestly.

I don't see any hard stances from him, nor progressions from his reads. he stated that his initial reads were Riley, momo, spade. the people that he's pressuring now are this three, and I don't see him trying to engage with his scumreads to progress his reads.

[lucca261]

answer me luv.

[lucca261]

wrong game LUV.

[lucca261]

hey, QT, are you going to answer my big post about your catchup or are you too busy confbiasing me?

hans, you promised me an answer to my questions.
somebody, let's talk. not willing to do a catchup. if you want, point me to posts and I'll answer them individually.

[lucca261]

quite honestly my two townreads right now are QT and LUV.

and that sucks.

[lucca261]

lucca, the reason why I am not "intervening" is because I don't have the patience to go around arguing with someone like grey, and instead I spend my efforts into effectively trying to create pressure on my scum reads. When I said grey reminded me of scum RC, I actually didn't think it would be this similar to him.

Why did you change your read on omega anyways?

my read on Omega didn't change at all. you jumping on his wagon does not mean he's town.

multiball.

[lucca261]

on the coaching theory: I can see it happening. but I don't see a big change on hans ISO:

whether it's scummy or townie, it's all consistent. the frustration, the flailing, it's all there.

also, I'll say if hans had access to daychat, he would have voted Grey much earlier. much earlier. so there's that.

[lucca261]

my point on tea is that I don't like posts such as 712 or 716.

he disappear for 200 posts, and when he comes back, he doies only to deliver either inconclusive or fluff statements. he's not interested on furthering the game. he's only interested at staying under the radar. his whole ISO is an one-note tone, and that is asking people about Omega or asking people to vote Omega.

but that's not on a clear way like grey is doing with hans.

he pops in, throw some shots at omega, and pops off.

also quite honestly I wanted to get off Hans/Grey because it was boring me.

[lucca261]

I have one completed game with LUV that I can talk about.

on that game, we had a big back and forth. he was accusing me of being scum for my constant catchups, I was if I remember, accusing him of being scum due to my push on me. we both replaced out. and we were both town.

my read on him does not consider that.

---

I liked his questioning of you, and thought he seemed to want to work out your role. his engagement with this game seems towny. and I don't see a lot of fluff on his ISO, maybe I'm remembering wrong, but anyway.

[lucca261]

hey hans, still waiting on those answers.

@tea, 754: I explained it, actually, that I think Omega is townlean/null and that I only disliked a comment he made about hans. It's consistent. and I love consistency.

@grey, 752: someone who townreading both players and preaching from the sidelines? well, let's see if QT will think that is a BS read.

[lucca261]

I was just stating my saltyness with QT confbiasing.

I think your case is good, especially the part about QT calling Fred out for activity and putting Pim at null.

[lucca261]

Momo was null. I liked Omega's entrance. I didn't like a statement he made on hans. If they're both scum, they are different alignments.

So a null/townlean. More a null tbh.

[lucca261]

My question to you, Lucca, if you think my scum case on Momo is too small, is this:
Have you EVER played with a noob town who, after 12 pages of content can only vote on flavour?
Noobs may be wrong at higher rates than pros, but they certainly would have an opinion, by then.

I mean, momo is a different player than most. I just don't see anything scummy from his wagon.

On my experience, momo is a player who will go for any lynch that it's not him. He's a survivalistic player. I see nothing scummy on his wagon.

I'd say Riley votes only on flavour during whole games.

final de semana.

i'm out of the loop, but chilled teas 772 implies that you're townreading Omega??

I can forgive nulling Omega, but what has he done to be town read?

Have you read my posts answering him? I'm nullreading him, and at maximum I townlean on him.

Momo was null. I liked his entrance, thought it was natural: +++/Disliked an opportunistic comment he made on you: ---

+++ --- = null

at maximum, I see some scummy players pushing his lynch and that makes me townread him a little more. not enough to call him a townread, as I explained for the third time, I think.

---

Other than that, props to you if you really slipped and is scum, because that posts about me were really good. It touched me a little. love u hans.

[lucca261]

about the slip:

what the fuck.

viewtopic.php?p=8810904#p8810904

on our previous game together, Open 669, Magna had the same theory about a Hans post. Hans was scum. No one listened to Magna.

so I think the potential slip has merit.

[lucca261]

so I'm willing to vote hans. he is at L-what?

[lucca261]

VOTE: Hans

this is L-1

[lucca261]

I actually realized I hammered.

[lucca261]

without hans maybe we can have a game, not a boxing match of Hans vs Grey.

D1 was boring me.

[lucca261]

you just made the list.

[lucca261]

pau que nasce torto nunca se endireita.
então segura o tchan.
amarra o tchan.
segura o tchan tchan tchan.

---

just so this post is not a total shitpost:

chilledtea is scum.

thx.

QT is looking scummier too.

[lucca261]

[lucca261]

once I end some games (I have too much right now), sure.

<3

were you actually scum? holy shit

[lucca261]

chilledtea is scum based on this flip. probably Hans partner.

lol

[lucca261]

true. but Tea or Spade first.

[lucca261]

lol I make zero sense as hans partner. but okay.

[lucca261]

my real analysis:

let's start by saying that the werewolf who is hans partner would gain nothing by bussing. the werewolves are already outnumbered by mafia, have no daychat and are punishable by a town PR. bussing your teammate D1 would be really not a good way to play. so that can eliminate a good part of the players from being hans partner:

Superhans (7) : ChaosOmega, Lil Uzi Vert, -Grey-, Riley Cake, BTD, Lucca, QT
ChaosOmega (2) : chilledtea, Superhans
-Grey- (1) : Frederick E Campbell
Spade_Ace (1) : mattblackguy
Lil Uzi Vert (1) : PimHel
Quick Transcendence (1) : Spade_Ace

that was how the day ended.

Grey is not hans partner.
LUV is not hans partner.
Omega is not hans partner.
I'm not hans partner.
BTD is not hans partner.
I could see Riley bussing D1, so nah.
QT is still possible.

That VC hides that the direct counter for the hans lynch was ChaosOmega. Hans actually had 4 votes and Omega had 3. hans was even voting Omega. this was the last VC before the BTD vote, Hans slip and consequent lynch:

Superhans (4) : ChaosOmega, Lil Uzi Vert, -Grey-, Riley Cake
ChaosOmega (3) : chilledtea, Superhans, Quick Transcendence
-Grey- (1) : Frederick E Campbell
Spade_Ace (1) : mattblackguy
Lil Uzi Vert (1) : PimHel
Quick Transcendence (1) : Spade_Ace
chilledtea(1) : lucca261
Not Voting(1): BTD6_maker

so we see that Omega was the direct counter to hans. Other lynches were possible? Grey only vote was by a lurker. Spade only vote was by a player who is not even playing anymore. LUV only vote was by a lurker. QT had no pressure on him. tea had no pressure on him other than me.

The list of possible partners:

- chilledtea
- QT
- Fred
- Matt/no one
- Pim/Hiraki
- Spade

Matt

Spoiler:

Matt: on his initial catchup, the situation was that hans had five votes. the other wagons had only one. he instantly votes Spade and townreads Hans. pushing Spade to two votes, without a third possible vote by hans. analysing Hans ISO, he only cites Matt name once: putting him as a townread on his readslist. no other citations. no explanation. so this is a

very possible partner.

Fred

Spoiler:

Fred: there is not so much. they voted Grey together around page 20 or something, when Fred returned to the thread. when he did, there was two wagons with two votes, in counter to the four-vote wagon on hans. Fred could've easily voted Omega to make a 3-vote wagon, 4-4 with possibly hans vote. but he didn't. analysing Hans ISO: he cites Fred twice. once on the readlist, around post 400 or something, saying that he had nothing to say about Fred. another on 500 or something, saying that he liked QT push on Fred. the wishy-washy posture around Fred is concerning, but I think this is more hans looking to appease QT or something than Fred being Hans partner.

not so likely, but possible.

Pim

Spoiler:

Pim: if he is hans partner, this post is the most useless one on all of mafiascum.

QT

Spoiler:

QT: possible. for all that happened. QT was Hans biggest ally the whole game, he was voting Omega, the counter-wagon, on a lot of the time. but he was on the lynch. before I voted. I think it's not QT. it's easy to do a big post of this size talking about Hans/QT interactions, but I'll guess QT is not the partner.

Spade

Spoiler:

Spade: hans put Spade at L-2 once. and then unvoted. this was when the big pressure on him started. Spade had a quick interaction with Hans that time, nothing more. and then Spade had a bullshit statement about hans on his readslist. I think Grey even disliked it at the time. so this is a very likely partner, right? I wouldn't say so. Spade, for a little bit of the time, was the counter-wagon. his vote of QT also makes no sense if Hans was being pressured. Also, Spade was the first person to dislike Hans vote. unecessary if they're partners.

possible, but not likely

Tea

Spoiler:

Tea: he comes into the thread on the situation of 5 votes on hans, 2 on spade, 1 on omega (hans). he instantly townread Hans, and scumreads momo/omega, even using a post of mine to further this:

this is scum hans.

ChaosOmega is probably scum too for his comments on Hans at 317. but different factions.

Yes, although not sure about hans being scum.

He defends and townreads Hans every moment, and his only engagement with Hans is on a post asking Hans to clarify his read on Spade. interestingly, Tea only votes Omega after Hans changes his vote to Grey. he spends the whole rest of D1 spearheading the Omega lynch. even if I'm scumreading him hard and tunneling, he's not concerned with me. he's only concerned that I'm possibly Omega's partner. (here's your tell, Grey)

literally, all his posts are about voting Omega/defending Hans. if Omega is a possible counter-wagon, it's because of tea. Some other interesting posts to look after:

Frankly I find it inconceivable that someone would scum read hans and town read omega.

Yo ct what do you think of the Hans vs. Grey feud?

TVT?

SVT?

SVS?

SVW?

You tell me.

~T

AND I WAS DOING SO GOOD

I think it is T vs T, if someone is scum it is probably grey.
But for that grey would have to be a tremendous scum player.

on Hans ISO, there is only a response about Omega and a null read on CT. no other interactions

basically, FMPOV, it's either Matt or Tea.

it's tea, but, right.

[lucca261]

said that Tea was mafia, guys.