Open 309 - Fire and Ice [Game Over]

[projectmatt]

RANDOM QUESTIONS TO START CONVERSATION, GO:

1. How long have you been playing?
2. How often are you "planning" on posting?
3. Are you mafia?

I'll never fully understand RVS, but to not be an outsider, I'll participate and

VOTE: Nikanor

because he scares me.

[projectmatt]

Good enough.

VOTE: Robo

. I'm kind of lazy and don't want to explain, but I will anyway.

Hey man! Long time no see! You are still one of my favorite mods. And you were also very fun to play with. Great to see you [/buddying]

I'll be one of the Mature ones and answer the questions normally.

1. I've been playing since December 2009. So about a year and half.
2. Ummm... It really depends. I dunno, as often as I can I hope. If I have content of course.
3. It is my legal obligation to play to my win condition. And as such, my answer is No.

Pointing out his own tells, and this entire freaking posts just sounds forced.

Please tell me I'm not the only one who noticed this. It stuck out like a sore thumb.

[projectmatt]

and so begins the completely baseless tunnel.

What mistake are you speaking of, Kcda? It's silly to make a post claiming that you suspect someone for making a "stupid move noob" and then refusing to elaborate on what they dd.

[projectmatt]

a) (Once you've had all the answers you want from people): Do you think you've gathered any information from these questions?

I was trying to see what kind of reads I would get from it, and I obviously probably don't have an accurate read on everyone, but I believe they've helped my mind work out things a little bit. If anything, I have a few people I'm pretty certain are town.

b) When you say that you are lazy and don't want to explain your post, but that you will anyway, are you attempting to make it look as if you are doing everyone a favour by explaining yourself, or is it something else? If it is something else, please explain what it was.

No, no way. My reads aren't that valuable. To be truthful, I was simply exhausted from a long day but felt the need to point out what struck as odd to me.

Matt's focusing on the wrong things with Robo, and robo is scum.
Vote: Robocopter87

I feel somewhat out of the loop. What are the right reasons?

[projectmatt]

Robocopter87 wrote:3. It is my legal obligation to play to my win condition. And as such, my answer is No.

Just for the record, this is

exactly

what I was attempting to point out when I said he sounded forced.

Also, pointing out reads could be helpful to the town, yes, but I'm not doing anyone a "favor" by outing them and the town doesn't owe me anything. I was afraid that might be taken out of context.

[projectmatt]

A few concerns about your argument:

Why do you insist on minimizing your own input into the game? If you were afraid it would be taken out of context then why did you post it? You seem to me attempting to play dumb and you insist that what you have to say is not that important. You can not actively try this hard to hide and still actually hide.

If I was trying to hide, I would be hiding. I'm not. I made that post without realizing that it COULD be taken out of context, and when it potentially was, I decided to set the record straight

I noticed Amor's reaction, btw, and I honestly don't see that much wrong with it. Do you? Do you see what I see in Robo, Haha?

[projectmatt]

WHY DO YOU POST SOMETHING IF YOU REALIZE IT COULD BE MISINTERPRETED?

..Um, did you completely miss my post? I said I made the post WITHOUT REALIZING it could have been taken out of context, then when I realized it could be, I corrected myself.

Perhaps I don't see the same thing as you, what I see in Robo is exactly what I saw in Amor's reaction. How are the two different?

I don't see that post (or any other post by him, for that matter) to be forced. That's honestly just it. I don't see what you see.

[projectmatt]

Not really

defending

but rather responding to questions. I'm pretty sure if I didn't answer them right now I would look even stranger.

Anyway, I'm still waiting for Robo to plead his case so I can (hopefully) verify my read on him.

[projectmatt]

Also, if you feel your vote is justified, why are you so concerned about it being the third? It shouldn't matter as long as you have reasoning.

[projectmatt]

Ugh.

I can understand Yo's explanation, I guess, but his posts tell me two interesting things.

1. He's paying close attention to "popular" mafia tells, for whatever reason.

2. He seems REALLY concerned that I just won't "GET" his explanation, like he's trying to prove something.

Sticking with Robo for now, but please keep that in mind.

[projectmatt]

I dislike Robo's 68. He starts out a little bit soft but then starts getting incredibly aggresive and makes a point to misrep every person who put out an argument against him.

Wow! I was waiting for you to show some valid reasoning! Man, its a small world after all.

Over reaction? Yes. I'm sorry, but I'm just not swayed.

Also not a fan of 66 by Kdcaspot.

soooo... I was bussing.... in RVS..... ummmmm.... wat?

Experienced user, obviously, and it appears he almost tries to play dumb about bussing in RVS. Why is this such a silly concept?

Though, I believe that if one of Hikari\Spot are scum, the other is town. I don't see it being that blatantly...obvious.

BTW, Amor's "I plead the fifth" comment doesn't do anything for me at all. It just felt like a joke, there was nothing forced about it. And, to be completely honest, I mainly just wanted to call Robo obvious scum so I could see how he acts under pressure, his first post was scummy, but not scummy enough to be lynched by. Now, I'm fine with it.

And, as I said, my reads can be useful but they are not valuable in the way others may have thought I was implying. Me outing my reads probably isn't doing the town a giant favor, I just want to.

[projectmatt]

Also not a fan of 66 by Kdcaspot.

soooo... I was bussing.... in RVS..... ummmmm.... wat?

Experienced user, obviously, and it appears he almost tries to play dumb about bussing in RVS. Why is this such a silly concept?

because it's RVS.

It's a viable strategy if i did overreact to hiraki.

so back to you, is there any other post pointing to a bus between hiraki and me?

Any "other"? I never pointed out a potential bus, others did. Your response tipped me off a bit.

[projectmatt]

Dislike the Hikari bandwagon. I mean, the rage was a little un-needed but I'll at least let him give this wall that he promises before I make any snap judgment.

Robo ISN'T obvious scum, he's just scummy and the best lead I have at the moment. I really want to know what Hikari apparently has seen.

[projectmatt]

How am I scummy? What don't you people understand about the word, Explanations? Really, what don't you understand?

Robo, I have explained fairly enough why I suspected you from the start. You seemed incredibly forced with everything you said, though it wasn't so bad I was going to actually let you get lynched. It was a pressure vote. Then I pointed out very specific posts in your retort that I highly disliked, especially your need to discredit every person who was arguing against you.

....

UNVOTE:
matt's stupidity vs. robo taunting.
....yeeeeeeaaaah
VOTE: robo

also L-2.

It is a pet peeve for somebody to call me un-intelligent without explanation. But, hell, even if I am a bumbling idiot, is stupidity a scumtell to you? Tiny mistakes are rarely scum tells, if you are going to be an active member of the town you are bound to make a few illogical posts. I'm just curious how you even see me up for a lynch today because of my stupidity. I don't even care if you chose Robo over me, you must still see it as a scumtell if you are weighing it so heavily, right?

Something else I've noticed, matt, why haven't you posted the answers to the questions you posed to everyone back on Page 1? In particular I want to know how long you've been playing mafia for.

There are no answers. I got the tells I wanted from them, and I pointed out any tell that struck as odd to me.

Still avoiding a lynch on Hikari. I can understand a pressure vote, but godammit, let him make his wall. If he is as confident as he says, he'll supply something good.

[projectmatt]

O

[projectmatt]

Yeah, goddammit you guys! Leave Hiraki alone!

Clear sarcasm, but I'm not saying that you should avoid Hikari, I'm saying that it's illogical to suspect him for not doing a wall as soon as he possibly can. If he never supplies the wall, then fine, deal with him. I also don't think a pressure vote is going to do anything, given that even if he is mafia he can (very clearly) fake a rage. I don't see how tells are going to be gathered if you claim it's a pressure vote, and I don't see how it's logical to lynch Hikari for waiting two days to make an apparently great post. Let's wait for this post.

[projectmatt]

Oh, and to answer a previous question - I've been playing epicmafia offsite for a few months now, but it's quite different from this website. This is my second game here.

[projectmatt]

Call me an idiot, but I really don't know what slip you are talking about. No more "matt is stupid lol" or "matt slipped" BS. If you really think I did something like that, point it OUT.

I'm a bit dazed right now from a lack of sleep, so my head isn't quite straight. I'll have to sleep before I can maturely give you all of my reads. If it's needed, I will give my current thoughts and reasons as to why tomorrow.

[projectmatt]

Which is why I'm curious to see what Hikari's wall is going to be like. I feel like that if he keeps delaying, even after the date he promises to post it, he will very clearly be making a fake rage. And if Hikari posts a short, non-nonsensical "wall" then we'll know he's faking. And if he posts something sincere, big and logical then we'll know that he isn't faking. I just want to avoid Hikari until Friday, but don't worry - if he keeps delaying, then I'll come charging at him. I just don't see a use yet.

Amor makes a big point, and again,. I feel like we'll have the answer to it in just a day.

[projectmatt]

Also, since they were asked for:

Robo - Leaning scum (forced posts and an angry retort that tries to bring everyone against him down.)

Kcdaspot - Null. Has done nothing very interesting so far.

silavor: Feels like he lacks something to say. First few posts were just fine, then he spent the rest of his time arguing with Robo about whether or not he is a hypocrite while refusing to address or even talk about anyone else. Possible scum using the argument as a crutch, but we'll see.

Tid - I honestly haven't paid much attention to him. Looks fine, despite some subtle sheeping in page 2. Null.

Hikari - Was leaning town previously, now null. Waiting for the promised wall to help solidify my read.

Toro - Town, I'm not quite sure why. Was doing perfectly fine until his push on Hikari on the last page, but I feel like there's a lot of others that should be confronted first before my primary focus is on him.

LadyHaHa - Null

YoYoGuy - Possible scum for reasons I have pointed out previously. Too concerned with not looking scummy rather then actually hunting.

Amor - Meh, null. Would like to say town just by gut but nothing has truthfully convinced me of it.

Nikanor - null leaning town

Alduskkel - Null

If I marked anyone "null" without further elaboration it just means I have no idea.

[projectmatt]

OH.

PROJECT MATT.

FFS.

DIDN'T MAKE THE CONNECTION

OH

MASTER

PLEASE FORGIVE ME

What exactly did I miss?

Okay, I guess I could start being serious.

Unvote. Vote: Tid.

Why?

[projectmatt]

really a dumbass mistake more than anything. in retrospect does not outweigh roboscum AT ALL.

generally when that happens (i assume) simply quick lynch the scum w/o telling them what's wrong if and ONLY if they make a strong town tell of some sort or claim a pr. if they do make a town tell or if the wagon moves too fast you can use this as levarge for finding more scum may it be partners or other scummy folk, the other team in this case. what matt did was put the brakes on that. and well. back at page 2, it was scummy. now? more of a VI - null tell if anything.

..that's it? that's the scumslip? ...where? I thought that Robo's post sounded forced but as I pointed out before, that post was more of a reaction test then anything. I actually laugh at loud at you thinking I'm "VI" telling.

What I hate about your posts right now is that you're just saying the same thing over and over or responding with nonsensical filler. Maybe I made a post that was scummy to you, but how in god's name is that a scumslip? And actually, screw it. How is it even bad at all? You're just quoting the same thing and going "HE SLIPPED" or "HE'S VI TELLING." In fact..

Looking through your posts again it almost feels like you're trying to go for an "easy" target. IE: someone who is new and you think wouldn't be too good at defending themselves. I want you to explain the slip IN DEPTH right now, and I'm curious on what you think about the other players aside from me. You saying "he slipped" adds nothing at all. As far as I can tell it's just bickering. I want some explanations, and I want them now.

Also, it's currently 9:30 in Hikari's time. Still waiting for that wall.

[projectmatt]

hiraki delivered.

but i needed the laff anyway. getting ninja'd by nikanor. XD

Did you just so happen to miss this post? https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... 0#p3079550

Silavor

You notice here (in bold) how it sounds as if he's almost 100% certain that he is to be lynched this phase? Sounds to me as if we've got panicked scum on the run. I used to sound like this when I was getting bandwagoned back in my newbie days on an off-site forum I used to play on, I exhibited this type of play when I was town and scum. Now keep in mind I did that as a newbie, Robo's been playing (at least on this site) for 18 months now, surely an experienced player knows how to defend themself better than this and not to cave in so easily.

Just a question - since he's apparently a very experienced scum and town, do you think as scum he would cave in so easily? Don't get met wrong, his play is very odd, but it's even more odd scum play. It doesn't feel like he's even trying to remain calm.

[projectmatt]

robo comes out swinging with no logic what-so-ever. just "bring it on" and now he gives up?

what IS there to explain?

I am going to keep bothering you until you respond to my post that I've reminded you about many, many times.

Robo, you don't want to get lynched - you refuse to selfvote, but you won't even respond to the two freaking walls full of the explanations and logic that you have been waiting for? That

is

bullshit. I hope you realize that you can call our arguments illogical as much as you want, but nothing is going to happen until you retort them - more specifically, the WALLS.

Also, unrelated question: I just found out I'll have to be away for around five\six days starting next Friday. Does that mean I will be auto replaced out? If so, I should probably replace out now so your reads aren't confused by my replacement.

[projectmatt]

Not replacing out - didn't actually know V\LA was acceptable for long at all. Dear god, I am VI telling.

Also, some are defending Robo's lack of scumhunting because it's his top concern not to get lynched. God damn, no it's not. If that was his TOP CONCERN he would have posted a retort to that wall, if he was trying hard to not get lynched he would try to rationally and simply defend his argument, instead, he says "I'm done, I'm done" and posts actively. But he doesn't do a freaking thing aside from talk about how nobody is listening to him. If you want me to listen to you, give me your reads. Give me your thoughts. Who is scum? I'm not saying that you should do something so stupid that you get auto-lynched, but stop caring about outdated tells and stop caring about how unfair a BW on you is. And stop defending yourself if it's all you are going to do. If the town thinks you are scummy, Robo, then prove us wrong. You've done nothing to show me it so far and this vote feels great.

-rage-

[projectmatt]

With that being said, I don't really think that my post could really legitimately be considered IIoA, being as there actually was analysis amongst all the information.

So basically you made three points of your own in a wall of other peoples' points. Why not just write those points without all the filler? Oh yeah, because you wanted to look townie by posting a wall.

1. My Little Pony is the best childrens show. Ever.

2. This is exactly what I was about to post. To me the "wall" you made is basically "he said this, she said that, she said this, he said that". It has no information at all, and if you found some specific posts scummy, why didn't you point them out?

Oh, and Silavor, can you please out all of your reads on every player? You made an interesting wall, but in ISO it feels like you have been completely focused on Robo the entire time. I want more.

[projectmatt]

Silavor, please elaborate a little bit on your reads. Sorry, but that doesn't quite do it for me. Why do you think yoyo\haha\tid are scum, and why do you mark many people as town who have done nothing incredibly significant? Sorry, it just doesn't cut for me when a player goes "this guy is town, this guy is town, this guy is town, this guy is scum". Again, I'm only asking this since you've been focused on Robo this entire game, and if you were scum slowly building a case against him, it honestly wouldn't be that hard. I just want to see you interact with the other players more.

Also, please lynch Robo. He's not even trying anymore. If he's scum, or if he's town - he's given up. 100%. I don't want to see his posts anymore.

Will actually bother to get a mature read on yoyo later.

[projectmatt]

Hikari -

The scum's primary goal is to NOT get lynched, he gave up because repeating his arguments were apparently "useless" then he just kept arguing again. Likewise, it's part of the town's win condition to not get lynched also. I don't see how somebody clinging to a glimmer of hope could be anything but a null tell. I'm not unvoting. Not convinced.

[projectmatt]

I'd like to think Robo's argumentative nature as a towntell, but dammit, everything he posts is a misrep. For example, he attacks Empking because his "only reason" for voting him was because of a game he couldn't remember. This isn't true at all - Empking was just informing Hikari that scum in fact do those things.

Also, yes, I do think Robo is panicking. Look at his last freaking post and tell me that isn't tunnel vision. Tell me.

[projectmatt]

In response to YoYo - I'm sorry I can't say otherwise, but you are still completely null. I dislike the way you played in the first few pages of the game. (example: joining a BW on me, which would be fine in retrospect but you show much concern about it being the third vote, which is a common scumtell. Again, your posts early in the thread told me that you were paying close attention to common scumtells, and the way you were trying to explain stuff to me, it sounded absolutely desperate. You've improved a little since then, but there is no reason to mark you as town and little reason to mark you as scum.

Hikari - if you want to derail the Robocopter lynch, who else would you lynch today?

[projectmatt]

It's not a second wind if the coming back to defend himself still consists of misreps and faulty arguments. No.

Toro
That's not tunnelvision, that's answering back to the guy posing questions towards him.

Look AT his responses though. His responses are misreps and "NO U, YOU'RE SCUM". It's tunelling\OMGUS'ing when it feels like he's just calling his attacker scum out of spite.

Kdca, other then Robo, who do you feel is likely scum?

[projectmatt]

I'm back.

Going to be posting my thoughts soon after a longer re-read. If I vote KDCA or Toro all votes would be in.

Three votes are currently on Toro - four on Hikari, if I vote for Toro, would it force a NL or would the day remain until the deadline is up and nobody has changed? And same question for a vote on KDCA. Not feeling the Hikari wagon, will point out why shortly.

[projectmatt]

Scumtells from Hikari:

#401 Do you think I didn't want reasoning for actions of someone that I wanted to lynch?

Are you nuts.

My vote is much better here.

Unvote, Vote: Toro

Go ahead. Pull the OMGUS card. Do it.

This post. This vote on Toro. After being relatively distant from Toro the entire game, he literally does OMGUS and vote only because Toro tried to build a case against him. He then proceeds to dare someone to say it's an OMGUS, even though it

completely was.

Why does an alleged town player have to pull that kind of stunt so people won't point out what he did?

...A few posts later.

#415 Nice OMGUS MPR.

Don't call out others doing what you have also done. Gah.

401: That's why I used all caps, used Fuck, and said Second Wind.

HMMM.

Freaking terrible argument. Toro said that he found Hikari to be sounding insincere and suddenly, his use of "fuck" and the term "second wind" are excusing him of it. WHY

Now, let's examine the current votes on the Toro BW, Hikari cased the first vote.

Toro (3)- Hiraki Nikanor Empking

Nikanor posts this as a reason for him to vote Toro:

Second of all, Hiraki's unvote had good reasoning behind it.
Thirdly, Toro's case is terrible, and he's probably scum

.

"hikari has good reasoning, toro's case is bad and he's probably scum"

This post tells me nothing about his thought process. Why is Toro's case horrible? Why is it so horrible that it makes him scum? What good reasoning has Hikari provided? Please, explain.

Now, for Empking's vote..

Vote: Toro - Cpmpromise to my favourite player with votes. Hikari is really, really town.

Never explains why Hikari is really town, and the worst thing about this post is that it is literally attempting to narrow it down between a Toro VS. Hikari lynch today. Why does it need to be between two players so quickly?

So, to conclude "this" post, a Toro lynch is not a good choice for today, and the subtle sheeping makes it even worse.

I've pointed out odd posts from Hikari but to specifically single some out and ignore the rest would be foolish. I don't believe Hikari would make such a terrible, terrible mistake as scum and intentionally say they were waiting until Friday then pretending they meant Thursday. I just don't think it's that obvious.

I still have a couple of things to point out regarding KDCA, and I still need to post an analysis the Hikari BW, but to conclude - I'd rather lead a lynch on the strange sheep rather then the lynch they are sheeping.

[projectmatt]

If you voted for me there wouldn't be a no-lynch, where'd you get that idea? If you're not feeling the Hiraki wagon why are you automatically planning on voting for me? Because I'm the next highest wagon?

You've misunderstood.

[projectmatt]

Fucking.

A ton of viruses have randomly entered my computer and whenever I get far into a virus scan I literally get the blue screen of death. Hail mary. Chances are I'll find a way to fix it - but just a forewarning I might be screwed if my anti-virus doesn't do it's miracle work.

In regards to my post about not being okay with the Hikari wagon - I completely went off track while I was re-reading and posted something different.

Empking is quite literally dripping scum BTW. I'll make a semi-ish large wall tomorrow if the time calls for it.

VOTE: Empking

[projectmatt]

His lynch is inevitable anyway, but just in case SOME PEOPLE -cough hikari and kdca cough- have failed to notice Empking's odd playing style today, here are some prime examples.


Empking is called out for posting filler and just making bad posts in general. His response:

This is a lie.

...O-okay. Empking never really elaborates on why it's a lie, or calls the person who he believes is making stuff up about him out, but his next post, he proceeds to vote me:

Unvote

Vote: PM - Pointing out bad play wrt Hikari rather than scummy play

I pointed out things from Hikari and people who have sheeped Hikari that felt like scumtells, but what's funny is empking calls it "poor play". Protecting Hikari is fine, if you think he is town, but Empking has TWICE voted somebody just because they have attacked or made a case opposing Hikari - not because they actually made scumtells.

Yes his active lurking warranted the vote. You find active lurking a null tell or town tell?

WHERE.

Alright, there are two kinds of lurking in the game of mafia, allow me to define them for you:

Lurking:

Not contributing or speaking in the first place. posting only to avoid prods. lack of interest in the game.

Active lurking:

Saying a lot but never giving anything of substantial value. "yeah what he said, i agree, i fos him". Those kind of things are what I've always defined of active lurking. At the time empking had voted me, I had made one (if you don't mind me saying) loaded with content post that entire day. I guess you could say I was lurking, if anything, but active lurking? The accusation came from absolutely nowhere. I see excuses.

And, in another poor attempt to justify his voting, he LATER says:

Also, my second vote included reasoning. You may disagree with it but its quite clearly got my reasoning for it. To help us not go the Hikari route. GTherefore Amor and MPR are both lying when they claim it did not include reasoning.

..So did you vote me for active lurking, for pointing out non-scummy things, or just to get the Hikari BW out of our minds?

And, one more thing to quote, which I don't even feel I have to elaborate why it's a scumtell:

Can I point out how fast my wagon has grown. Its totally a scum wagon (Not saying I'm town because it could be due to bussing.)

Essentially, what I'm seeing from Empking is a lack of consistent reasoning, poor reasoning when he tries to use it, and amazingly weird attempts to divert the lynch from Hikari. God dammit, if you think Hikari is town then TELL US WHY. Flailing your arms and randomly accusing to divert suspicion is one of the worst things you can do.

[projectmatt]

Here's the third request. I've been reading Toro as town.

Overview:

Nikanor's play started out pro-town and now he's slumping all over the place. Can you give me your reads on everyone?

KDCA's play has been mediocre at best. I could care less about meta. Unless he steps up to the plate he's probably scum.

Alduskkel is probably town, just judging by his last few posts.

I truthfully have no clue about the others.

Highest suspicions for a team: KDCA and Nikanor

[projectmatt]

Hikari what time is it where you are? Why do you worry about responding because it's "late"? You obviously still talk anyway.. Also, who do you think is in each maf team? I know that you suspect Toro and Silavor, but what about the second? Poor excuses fueled by rather poor logic for Toro being scum makes it tempting to just say "screw it" and vote you right now. Keep going.

Also, it's 10:40 in my zone also - I had an almost restless night. Not to say that people don't run differently on different times of sleep, but that shouldn't be an excuse.

[projectmatt]

..

I feel like both Toro and Hikari have been towntelling in different ways. Am I the only one who has a bad feeling about lynching between them today? I mean, I'll wait to see them going back and forth more, but surely I'm not the only one who feels this way..? Just me? Okay.

[projectmatt]

kcda and Matt attacking Hiraki for, uh, being tired at night is probably as low as it gets in inventing reasons to bandwagon.

I tried to pressure or get a towntell coming from Hikari by questioning him about time, I, by no means had made it an excuse to BW. I don't even feel comfortable lynching either of these two today, I have other targets, but if the entire rest of you will not be swayed, I'm putting into consideration where my vote will go.

Vote Toro

Hate this logic that Hikari being town = Toro being scum. Call it buddying, I just don't see it.

[projectmatt]

I'm really not sure. Most of my play is based off of how someone would react under the pressure of being hammered on, and it's with that in which I try to get tells and make a choice with. Though..Nikanor towntelled earlier in the game, if only just a little. Given that KDCA has no real tells, I would hammer on him.

[projectmatt]

I feel like Hikari has been towntelling, and that Toro has towntold earlier in the game but is now just focused on tunneling Hikari. Who do you suspect that isn't Hikari, Toro? We know one of your reads, that's it. I want to see more from you.

[projectmatt]

Is everyone else null\town?

[projectmatt]

Making poor jokes in order to avoid explaining your baseless tunnel doesn't change the fact that it's still a baseless tunnel.

I'll admit, I suffer from a lack of motivation but I'm still trying to stay active with the game, but it becomes a problem when we are literally down each other's throats for nothing at all. Lord. Can we at least try to get our shit together?

If Toro and Hikari are both town, here are the remaining players and possible teams.

Teams that I can see: KDCA & Nikanor. Those are two major people on that list I would be able to accept as scum.

Now, that leaves:

silavor
Meh
Amor
Alduskkel

For a possible second team, none of these work. I have a townie read on Silavor, letting me cross him out. Meh was townsided as hell when he first came in the game. That leaves Amor and Aid..

Both of these players started out as null and still basically are, but there was on post near the end of D2 which led me to think that Aid has towntold.

Basically, from my reads, which are bound to be incorrect, there should be a scum between Hikari and Toro, which goes against what I had said earlier - I know. For most of you, this isn't a huge advancement because you've already had your eyes on a specific target. I don't yet, but I'll be re-reading later tonight to figure out which one is scum, "if" one is.

[projectmatt]

>playing on EM
>roll cult
>see a guy named projectmatt with the same avatar
>cult him
>he immediately suicides

You're gonna get yours, bro.

Haha, my playing usually isn't that wreck-less. It was the unranked lobby though and there was a ranked game with people that I really wanted to play with. n_n

ALSO - I did a re-read and fuck my life. Hikari is townie, and Toro has said some incredibly odd things today but both are solid town reads.

Yes, I am taking the cop out and falling back on the two I am pretty sure actually

are

scum. KDCA just actually started to contribute, but I'll give it a fair shot. Nikanor. I want you to make a case on KDCA, if you could. He's one of your fos's, right?

[projectmatt]

Fuck this.

I've given you a chance, but I'm convinced that Nikanor's tunnel on me is an excuse for him to push on somebody randomly and never get much backlash, because, well, the person he is tunelling on is a "newbie" and he won't get much backlash for it, because, well, I'm a newbie.

matt, you should bus Toro already.

This is Nik's first actual mention of me in terms of his read. Though, we have directly interacted before. Baseless? Seemingly, yes. So, when asked about it, his response is:

itz cuz im a geenass

You've explained your reasoning for Toro being scum (HAHA, JUST KIDDING. YOU HAVEN'T.) I would expect any player who is going to give off such blatant comments to be able to at least SLIGHTLY back up his points.

Oh, and here's another jewel from Nikanor:

tbf I'll probably vote matt tomorrow so that we can go down to one kill a night. I'm just trying to scare him into making a post.

Well, I DO think this makes my accusation on him attempting to push for a random lynch on someone who isn't completely accustomed to defending themselves evident. He thinks he can "scare me" into posting, and again, this posts addresses me as nothing more then some random n00b.

Now, do you see what I'm getting at here? If his entire focus is just on Toro, he'll look bad. He needs an easy target..

Well, then I proceed to call Nikanor out about the tunnel, and of course, it is subsequently ignored and a few posts later, he says yet again:

. Either bus Toro or vote me, please.

Oh, but there's more random contradictions aside. From a few posts earlier:

I'm voting MPR tomorrow, btw. You know, after Toro's scum flip.

Is it me and Toro or Toro and MPR?

Oh, and just one more thing, to you know, seal the deal: All posts quoted were made less then one page ago.

I think I've made my point abundantly clear. Nikanor, you're getting lynched today.

VOTE: Nikanor

[projectmatt]

Btw, Kcda isn't responding to the points I made against his case because he's scum and just wanted to make a case for the town cred.

KDCA actually never made another post after his case, at the time that you wrote this post, HIS last post was the case on you. How do you even know he was on between that time?

Oh, and one more thing from the last page:

Kcda is not one of my scum reads.

I-I just don't get this read that came out of nowhere. I don't get your read on me that came out of nowhere, and your read on Toro is the worst because he's the one you've been pushing on with nothing. I

do

want you to make a case.

What's with all the Matt hate?

Shrug. No clue. No way to respond to it either given I have no idea what the basis is for my "scummy" play.

[projectmatt]

Unvote

Nikanor, there's one more thing. I'd like you to, at least lightly, explain your case on me. You've given logic on Toro and haven't cracked under pressure, this is why I'm unvoting. However, the thought that you were just randomly picking on an easy target so you wouldn't look silly all-out tunelling Toro has not completely left my mind.

KDCA, what do you think about Nikanor's wall?

[projectmatt]

Sorry to disappoint, but I'm still not. ;-;

[projectmatt]

I think PM is just way too green to be maf.

What does this mean?

Also - I lean on Silavor being part of the other mafia due to a beautiful thing entitled process of elimination.

VOTE: Silavor

Unless KDCA is suddenly counter claimed, I buy it. He was one of my top scum reads and the fact that he is scum is not surprising to me.

Mals, why do think Amor is scum?

[projectmatt]

Where do you get a town read on me, Mal? What led you to this?

There's no need to discuss my vote over a cup of tea. I have my suspicions for at least one. I vote. I want to see how he responds. I'm curious why you want to lynch Amor over Silavor, that's all.

[projectmatt]

I think that a lot of these teams aren't making sense if Silavor isn't in one of them. I think we need to lynch Silavor.

I'm truthfully not sure on the second. Will need to do some re-reading once my head is completely clear. (IE: I get sleep.)

[projectmatt]

Hi.

It's Amor + Silavor. Well, just by proccess of elimination. Nikanor is probably town, though his play was terrible eariler. Mala has been towntelling, and I find the higher odds to be within Amor and Silavor, and I'm now thinking that they are a team. I'm going to look at their interactions throughout this game and will show up again if I find anything off-setting. This lynch should be hammered.

[projectmatt]

I had had logged on for a little bit and was lurking the thread trying to get my reads together. So yeah, your post gave me the motivation to right that because it was a towntell.

I'm not unvoting because I don't see one of these teams existing without Silavor partaking in them.

[projectmatt]

Yes.

[projectmatt]

I guess you can. I don't see a need for Silavor to defend himself anymore since I know very well what he's going to say and his arguments don't convince me. It was more of a "LYNCH ME AND IT WILL BE BAD" kind of plea. I'm pretty sure on this read, and I doubt my mind will be swayed, so yes, I am suggesting that you just hammer right now. But it's actually your choice if you want other input.

[projectmatt]

I'm at at a loss for words. No reason for me to unvote. Do I see a mal + amor team. No. Do I see a nikanor and mal\nikanor + Amor team? No. I don't. Silavor is the missing link between all of these possible teams.

[projectmatt]

I notice that you completely left of the obvious amor + matt team.

"I still can't believe matt is scum."

Two posts later, calling me completely obvious scum.

You've made yourself obvious and desperate. Thank you.

You also claim that I shouldn't even consider Mal and Nikanor, when either of them very well could still be scum, it's just less likely. I am trying to convince a hammer, because yes, I think it's become obvious.

[projectmatt]

I don't think Mal + Nikanor or scum. At least not over Silavor and Amor.

You are treating them like clear townies in order to support your argument, though. Which is utter bullshit.

[projectmatt]

(twilight talk is allowed)

Last townie here. The results of tonight will be entertaining. Please stop putting up an act. One of you is the fire and one of you is the ice, correct? I'm going to guess that Amor is the ice because he didn't show any signs of surprise or emotion at KDCA actually being ice. Mal is probably just fire.

Hell, I'm not even sure how your kills tonight are going to work, so it will be entertaining to observe.

[projectmatt]

DAMMIT.

Well, I was 100% expecting a loss, but still a bit disappointing to see it in play.

KDCA: Excellently played fire mafia claim. Btw, I saw you signaling me to claim fire, and I intentionally wiggled my way out of claiming. I was (for some reason) presuming that I would be cc'd as soon as I claimed, and I thought you giving me a notion would get us called out as a team. I thought that you claiming may have wiped away some future suspicions, though it didn't really matter.

This game was a ton of fun, and thanks for the speedy modding, Cirno.

Oh, and this was my second game of mafiascum. First time as scum in forum mafia. Any comments\criticisms on my play this game? I decided to try to play out a "dumb townie" and immediately became aggravated with it. Yes, I knew very well that I was able to go V\LA.

Great game, everyone.

[projectmatt]

Well, if you want to be completely honest, town actually should have lost. Either the fire or the ice mafia should have won. I mean, a lot of the days I noticed the town were kind of digging themselves into a giant hole and I didn't even have to contribute to make it go downhill.