Mini Normal 608 - Game Over

[Phoebus]

vote: FlyingFoxBat

Gimbo - that's really not too much of a useful attitude...
As I've mentioned elsewhere...

[Phoebus]

Lynch the guy who's voting for himself, already!

[Phoebus]

It will be a while yet while I can actually get to this game.
sorry.

[Phoebus]

Vote:Gimbo

I dont think that even warrants an explanation.

vote: Slaine Hayes.

I'm sorry but if you're saying that following someone (Llama) who's getting annoyed and voting for Gimbo based on Gimbo calling himself scum, warrants no explanation...think again.

It's extremely convenient as far you're concerned and I've not seen you do any other work.
At least Llama is getting all worked up and that expends energy.

Gimbo is not scum but you...on the other hand...run a good chance of being one.

[Phoebus]

Slaine -

You have 12 posts.

The first five barely touch upon Gimbo.
You're asking what his hunch is - as far as Dattebayo goes...
most hunches don't really have explanations.

in post 6 - you vote Gimbo...claiming that your vote requires no explanation, without you having addressed anything at gimbo or seriously questioned him about anything...

this, i call ... riding the wagon.

subsequently...your posts indicate

Gimbo, you are making FoS's with no justification and going around saying you are scum. An explanation is all I (and Llamafluff) are asking for here.

He does that everywhere.
Go meta.
Sure...he might need help but unless proven otherwise...
You're looking for explanations but don't seem too concerned about hearing them because your vote seems pretty steadfast...

This is a pretty serious wagon that's going on here yet...while you claim you want an explanation, you're not following this up with an intent to allow him to explain.'

You claiming that you are scum isn't the only reason I voted. Townies don't make FoS's with no explanation, and would also be actively seeking out the scum, not just claiming they are to see everyone's reaction.

Your claim about townies...why not?
An uninformed majority is paranoid...many fos indicators just mark that paranoia and reactions can be interesting enough.

Then all you have done is made baseless accusations and claim that you are scum. I have no reason to believe you are pro-town. My vote stands.

Baseless accusations on day one with all of 5 pages into day one.
I'm sorry...but do

you

have anything substantial to post...other than wagon riding off Llama'a annoyance?
Let's see some positive basis for YOUR accusations.

I'm afraid trying to latch on to someone's behaviour for being hyper does not qualify as such a basis.

If these are the only reasons you're voting...
Well...you're not voting for any reasons at all.

I'm afraid it just won't do.

Given your current indicators of activity etc...
If you turn out scum...I'd bet decent money on Dattebayo and #44 being scum with you.

[Phoebus]

I will come up with a post dealing with my thoughts on the three people I named as suspects in the next 24h.

[Phoebus]

Post 106 outlines my case against Slaine Hayes.
I don't think there's any reason to reiterate it.

What interests me is that instead of responding to my case in totality, Slaine just chose to say:

If you fail to see the basis for my accusations, then I cannot possibly have this conversation. I am letting Gimbo explain himself. he does not appear to have any desire to. I think he doesn't want to play this game.

I fail to see the basis...enlighten me.
Don't quote the entire post and basically stonewall my discussion.

You're making assumptions about Gimbo which don't hold true.
He's this same personality everywhere. He's not lurking.
He's annoying the hell out of people but he posts.
I doubt that this indicates disinterest in play.
Perhaps a slight carelessness in conduct but disinterest...no.

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As far as my other accusations go and the Slaine, #44 and Dattebayo Axis goes...
This is how I see it.

As mentioned above - post 106 talks about my reservations about Slaine.

Posts 35 - 37

Cavebear says:

Anyway, OMGUS vote: Slaine Hayes, obv. bandwagoning scum.

Notice the smiley?

Dattebayo responds with:

Your probably wrong; looking at the timings it looked Slaine Hayes simulposted and therefore didn't bandwagon.

There was humour intended around the vote from Bear...Dattebayo goes after it in what seems like seriousness.
I'm pretty sure that the better person to respond to this was Slaine himself.

Next, in the same post, Dattebayo asks Llama whether he is indeed attacking #44...
Llama responds in the affirmative.

Point one for a link between the three.

I see no reason for anyone to be concerned too much about what's happening to other people, this early in the game...especially when said with such seriousness.



Post 47

It is true that Llama is overexcited, but why is that scummy?
At the time of your vote, there seem to be pro-town intentions behind it: Llamafluff is trying to get information from the reactions his attack produces.
FoS: Gojira until you can give a reasonable answer to my question.

Addressed to Gojira...a conditional FoS, expecting a reasonable answer.

i) - FoS are useless. They don't really threaten anyone...so the conditional nature of your "stigma" on Gojira is useless.

ii) - What constitutes a reasonable answer?

This post quoted is not contributing to the Axis but to my perceptions of a funky response from Dattebayo...raising a small flag.



Post 49 and the last quoted snippet before voting Gojira...is misunderstood...as I see it...whether this is intentional or not...is yet to be seen.
He edits in post 50 and mentions that Llama isn't making his semantic argument for the sake of a lead but for the sake of creating discussion.

Gojira didn't say Llama was making a lead of anything but that his semantic argument was a lead that Gojira was following.


Post 54 and Gimbo throws out a FoS at Dattebayo...calling it a hunch.
Slaine Hayes asks in post 60 what the hunch is...
As I see it...hunches are generally not easily explained.

Link.

Post 64:

It is interesting to note that the one who started this argument, #44, hasn't posted his thoughts. Maybe he just hasn't been on the site, or maybe he is letting us battle it out. Unvote
FoS:#44
Most of the players are inactive actually, I would like to hear everyone's opinions on the game so far.

Slaine throws out a FoS at #44 for non contribution and in the same breath mentions others but no FoS for them.
This could be a discreet hint to a buddy to get into the fray and not attract suspicion by lurking.

The lack of FoS for other non contributors makes this into another

Link

Post 74 and Du..Gimbo's party really takes off.
He claims Scum.

Post 78 - #44 resurfaces...without too much of an explanation as to where he was off at while his previous wagon was being investigated.
Though he addresses his absence in the next post, it contains no substance.
He claims that it's too late to be joking and that Gimbo is a ballsy scum.
See...this is a little odd.
If it's too late to be joking and if he's serious...claiming scum is not ballsy...it's stupid.
Ballsy implies having guts...having the guts to claim scum is a moot point in mafia. One doesn't do that. One way or the other. Original scum wouldn't do that...unless they are in a situation where a three player endgame between town, scum and SK allows townie to become Kingmaker.
Normal townies don't do it because it serves no real purpose.

Gimbo...is neither normal (I suspect) nor a townie...


Post 80 and Slaine voting Gimbo is what set off post 101 from me and was followed by post 106.


Post 84 - is just downright weird.
#44 claims that he's explained his actions in post 78 earlier but it has no empirical basis. What is the rationale?
Compare that with what I said about claiming scum above...how is it logical?
On day one?
Funnily enough...this echoes mildly in Slaine's later..."Gimbo's disinterest" comment.

The only reason for someone to claim scum is disinterest in the game - which is patently not the case here and like I said....it's interesting that two people on my claimed Axis have similar thoughts - though one hasn't mentioned it in so many words.


Earlier, Dattebayo seemed sympathetic with Llama's semantic tactic of getting reactions...this didn't get a vote for Llama from Slaine.
However, when Gimbo goes a different way (with FoS) to achieve the same purpose...he's scum (according to Slaine and contrasting with his earlier ignoring of Llama's going the same way)....especially because he's so wisely claimed scum...eh?


I post no. 101 and next post, Slaine claims he's mentioned his reasons for Gimbo vote.

There is no basis for voting someone when they claim scum on the

FIRST DAY

of a game!

Especially when read in conjunction with the same player's style elsewhere.
You don't have to like him but you need to understand that he's been this way

everywhere

.

Like someone mentioned somewhere...Battle Mage, Baby Jesus and a few others were similarly high strung when they arrived.
People got used to half of their antics, the rest of their antics mellowed or disappeared.
Give the kid a chance.
He may be scum elsewhere. He's not here.

I've said this twice already in this post and two people have pointed it out that I've said it earlier.

Reflect

on that and draw your own conclusions.

1 person coming out and (ostensibly for whatever good reason) claiming scum is one matter. Another coming and repeating again and again that he (the earlier one) isn't...is an entirely different one.

*Think* about it and you might find a reason for Gimbo's voting Slaine.
This vote leads Slaine to mention once again that Gimbo seems to have no interest in playing the game.

So Slaine's case is this:

1) Gimbo throws out FoS without reason. This is criminal, compared to voting for no real reason (a la Llama's arbitrary vs. random argument).
It earns him a vote.

2) Gimbo claims scum. Therefore he obviously must be one.

3) Gimbo does not explain himself. Therefore he must be scum.
Did you consider that there might be nothing to explain? That there was no substance behind his votes either...akin to Llama's early votes...which you ignored? That perhaps Gimbo has nothing to defend himself against...except perhaps a perennial sugar high?


Post 120 and 121 actually have Gimbo making an iota of sense.
Read them slowly. Carefully. Properly.
Consider. Reflect.

Gojira

You were the one who first asked about my statement about Gimbo.
In the same post you mentioned an order of possible scum - Gimbo, 44 and Slaine.
Reflect on what I say - then take a second look at your list.


Post 139 drips with hypocrisy.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tommy

1) Reflect on this post. Also consider the preposterousness of the suggestion you mentioned in your problem post - the one calling me scum WITH Gimbo.
Like I've said earlier here.
one scum claiming his real role is far fetched at least...on day one...but two risking their necks? Do you really believe this?

It would be poor play on the scum's part.
People are here to win. Scum don't usually play poorly on day one.
If you really believe this is possible and probable...I'm afraid it reflects poor play and thinking on YOUR part.


2) Well - while gimbo might not be forthcoming with explanations...Slaine's own accusations lack a basis...what right does he have to be explained anything when he doesn't explain himself but claims that a scum claim and random FoS are good enough for him to be convinced of Gimbo's scuminess?


3) Floppy argument or not, i can understand where multiple FoS may come from. On a personal level, I think they are useless. I don't, therefore, use them.


4) a) - please point me to Slaine's substantial contributions.
b) - the mud for dattebayo and 44 is up above in this post. Interesting choice of words there though.


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Post 155 is so beautiful.

dattebayo agrees with me re Slaine.
However, he sticks with a FoS on him. Throws one out at Cave for good measure.
he agrees with my thoughts on Slaine and those thoughts include my statement regarding Gimbo.
yet....dattebayo is still voting Gimbo but points FoS at Slaine.

So easy to bus him with...at a later point...when Gimbo turns out pro town.
But then...1 for 1 might not be a bad deal...
Eh dattescum?


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And for good measure,

GIMBO, YOU LUNATIC!

Pay good attention here

What you said earlier:

Okay, I am going to calm down and say I shouldn't have done the whole 'hey I'm scum thing', but you have to understand, scum or not, being at L-2 freaks everyone out and considering that I know I'm innocent, it'll suck for me to die just because I am not likeable. With that said yes I admit that my play is scummy, in fact in nearly every game I've played, people say that I am doing something scummy. That is my style, so i understand if people misinterpret that. To be honest, I don't have a solid case against anyone for scum but i trust that among those who voted for me, there are at least some townies who'll think twice about my play in this game and realize that while I might be crazy, but I am not scum.

Is an appeal to emotion.

There is only so far you will get by throwing FoS around and not basing any rationale behind them.
You've claimed you wanted reactions - well, you've got plenty.
Deal with them - let's hear what you have to say.

Acting stupid first and then apologising for it, is useless.
Especially when you litter it with bad language and disrespect.
In case you want to earn some respect, display some.

you don't have to agree with what people say to or about you.
you don't have to like it.

That is NO reason to hurl abuse at them.
It is not cool. It is not fair. It is not respectful and it most certainly isn't helpful when all you do is resort to invective as a shield/weapon....whatever.

i've mentioned it elsewhere, i will say it again. i'm not above complaining about you.
if you have come here to have fun...please ensure that the people with whom you are playing are not robbed of the same.
i don't think that is an unreasonable or difficult request.

[Phoebus]

3.The smiley and simulpost arguments for Dattebayo and I being scum are just ridiculous. Dattebayo was simply making a point.

Oh my lord...you felt the necessity to say this?
You *know* for a fact what Dattebayo was doing??

I'm comfortable with my vote right now.

[Phoebus]

You should probably let someone else talk for a while now...

[Phoebus]

No feedback on what I've said about Slaine, Tommy?

[Phoebus]

You make an interesting point. Im not quite sure what you are talking about, could you elaborate?

You say the point is interesting but are not sure what it is?

What is this??

[Phoebus]

Vote:Gimbo
I dont think that even warrants an explanation.

Townies don't make FoS's with no explanation

Is that a contradiction?

I added on the "warrants no explanation" under the impression that everyone already knew why I was voting, because he had JUST said that he was scum.

1.The basis behind my vote (which I stated I had every intent on removing, and I followed through) was because of Gimbo's "hunch". There cannot be any hunches in this game, because soon it will turn from an innocent FoS to a townie being lynched because of a "hunch".

Again, a contradiction. Immediately following his vote, slaine said everyone should know he voted because Gimbo said he was scum. Now, he's saying it was because of Gimbo's "hunch."

Also, I don't agree with the slippery slope argument made in the last quote.

Yet your vote is still in your pocket...

[Phoebus]

Sorry about my absence. But that seems to be the trend here anyway.

what? What? WHAT?!


You

do not

flippantly get to blame your absence on a "trend" which may or may not exist.
You were away - that by itself would have been ok.
However...you were away and you're being glib about it?

That's just wrong.


[quote="#44]I still don't like Gimbo, but I'm liking Slaine and Gojira less. [/quote]

Would you rather I put Slaine at L-2 without at least hearing him out?

Speaking of which: Slaine, do you have anything to say in regards to post 217?

So yeah...
Put him at L-2. L-2 is not bad. No chance of a quicklynch via hammer.
Scum would not be stupid enough to have two operatives place successive unexplained votes.

Yet...you're waiting for him to give an explanation.
Afraid to step on the gas to bus your buddy?

In post 68, skitzer claims that he finds me suspicious because there are only TWO people on the llamawagon.

Are you implying that you know there are more than two scum?

Stop with the underhanded mud slinging...
You ought to know as well as anybody here that the standard complement of scum in a mini is 3.
Your coyness is irrelevant - more than two i.e. 3 scum is a reasonable assumption to make.

Lynch this guy already!

He doesn't want to explain himself in depth
He keeps thinking that his actions have been explanatory, when they have not.
He won't offer explanations to humour those of us for whom his actions were not self explanatory and in any case, actions in mafia need explanations, regardless of whether they are self explanatory or not.


We have #44 - away, returned with some glib remark about trends of absence. Casts suspicion, yet refuses to vote and is part of the Axis of scum that I've presented in my case here.

What are you waiting for?

By the way...have you been asking the mod about his 60 day game limit?
I did...

If we lynch only 2 people in 48 days and they turn out to be wrong...we have only 12 days later to find ALL scum, for...on the 60th day...the town loses...regardless (apparently) of the numbers...

So...with a case being presented and no strong alternatives at this time (to Slaine and his axis), an expedient effort might not be too amiss.

Think on it!

[Phoebus]

Give me a break, fourty four...

Your vote at that time would have given him more than enough time for many final words.

All you've achieved by not acting then is give off the impression that you were unwilling to lynch a possible townie.
At this point, I seriously doubt that will happen and even in the case that it happens, your holier than thou stance still makes it a good possibility that you worship lucifer.

[Phoebus]

And to clarify - a vote then would've put him at L-2 = time to have his say.

Your stalling has just allowed others to vote in those positions - potentially allowing you to create a scapegoat out of them later, should you require it.

[Phoebus]

vote: #44

Tomorrow = Dattebayo

[Phoebus]

Phoebus had to move unexpectedly and is ill... so bear with him.


Corinthian...are you contesting the claim that Dattebayo has come up with?
This appears to be an extremely normal game...from where i stand...and with no one counterclaiming...despite his scuminess....can't really fault dattebayo for now

yes, I'm 2 on 2 for evil but my connection hypothesis was slightly incorrect.

at this time...i'm going to

vote: skitzer

for his "his claim sounds iffy' bit - what was that about? please explain... 44 had claimed Sk...

Following skitzer on the list is Gojira.


This might not be a bad time for a cop to reveal innocent targets, if they are still alive.
if we can confirm what stands around in this game...we could wrap it up outright...

of course

if cop targets are dead, he should

keep quiet

don't want anyone missing the obvious...

[Phoebus]