Mini 592: Xyl's Mafia 1 - Game over!

[icemanE]

Day 1 dawns with

Khelvaster

dead. He was a protown

Roleblocker

.

The deadline for today is June 1 at 9 PM Pacific. With 11 alive, it will take 6 to lynch.

Well, that's a bummer.

[icemanE]

Haha,

vote:AlyG

because I'm SOOO sick of that show, especially Borat, and for bandwagoning me because I said "bummer" when one of our power roles got killed.

[icemanE]

icemane gets another scumtell marked off on his scorecard, the omgus vote. my page one pick is looking better and better.

Haha

[icemanE]

Beyond being OMGUS, I think the most obvious scumtell so far is the obvious alliance between AlyG and Rofl. I just hope they aren't such bad players that they're actually the scum. AlyG might be that bad a player though, from what I've seen so far. I wouldn't be too suspicious of Rofl if not for Aly.

Now he's trying not to look over-defensive by just laughing at your theory.

I mean, seriously. Look at that.

[icemanE]

I found you slightly scummy with the "bummer" thing and i agreed with rofl because i saw it as so. I don't think you can really accuse me of bandwagoning after putting only the second vote on you after i thought you looked scummy, and on the first page. Now what's making you look even worse was by just OMGUS'ing me back after i had voted you.

While putting a second vote is technically bandwagoning, I wouldn't get too worked up over my vote. We're on the second page.

[icemanE]

you keep saying there's this connection between me and alyg but all the evidence you bring up is still him attaching himself to my case and nothing actually coming from me. does one person agreeing with another person's argument on page one automatically make them scum together?

One player can make the other look bad by buddying up with him, even if the other player denies it. That's the difference: no matter how good one player is, if the other is bad enough, he'll make both look scummy. Based on the small amount of evidence we have so far I'm not entirely convinced that you're both scum, but that's the scummiest thing I've seen so far this game so I'm going with it.

[icemanE]

And that's a damn good incentive for a scumbag to buddy up with a townie. Welcome to WIFOMville, population: you.

Where's evidence of myself buddying with a townie, out of curiosity?

[icemanE]

1) Saying that "bummer" is not a scum-tell after a power role died right away. [rofl, AlyG,]

Yes, in a sense it is. Scum often want to act dissapointed about the death of a power role. It's not that big a tell - but it does seem odd that he would jump in to say only that.

Meow.

Hahaha! What the hell else did you want me to say in the first player post of the game???

[icemanE]

I like that the random voting stage ended VERY quickly in this game, it's a relatively pointless part of the game. If nothing else, my "tell" (which is obviously being looked WAY too far into, considering its even still being discussed) accomplished that.

I may or may not be slightly inactive for the next few days, final papers to write.

[icemanE]

ice's glaring scum tells and flippant attitude about them

Ha, I just wanted to point out how much rofl has overcooked his case on me. It just looks silly.

[icemanE]

I like that the random voting stage ended VERY quickly in this game, it's a relatively pointless part of the game.

What makes you think moves in the random voting stage should be ignored because it is pointless?

Compared to the rest of the game, which is based on info and observations instead of random punches in the dark, its pretty pointless. Good things come out of it obviously, but discussion gets going quicker when people like Rofl over analyze a post like my first one.

[icemanE]

icemanE's first post sort of baffles me. Part of the reason I'm not really comfortable using it as a big tell against him is that I don't know what to make of it. It sticks out more as strange than anything else, to me.

Just out of curiosity, which of my posts did you find strange? I think they're all fairly straightforward:

3: The bummer post
18: Vote for AlyG in the random stage, slightly OMGUS because he made a big deal of nothing.
24: Laughing at Rofl
26: Proposal that they're might be a link between Rofl and AlyG
36: Explaining to AlyG that 2 votes is technically the start of a bandwagon, and that my one vote on him isn't anything to freak out about.
41: I think this is the one you might have found strange. "One player can make the other look bad by buddying up with him, even if the other player denies it. That's the difference: no matter how good one player is, if the other is bad enough, he'll make both look scummy. Based on the small amount of evidence we have so far I'm not entirely convinced that you're both scum, but that's the scummiest thing I've seen so far this game so I'm going with it." But I don't see anything strange about it.
43: Asking this questionof EA: "Where's evidence of myself buddying with a townie, out of curiosity?" Which was never answered.
45: Laughing at Minineko for criticizing me for not posting more in the first player post of the game. Which I still think is funny.
54: Saying I'm glad the random stage ended quickly.
56: Laughing at Rofl again.
58: Repeat of 54.

What's strange?

I'll tell you what's strange! You forgot to Meow in post 53!

[icemanE]

And #63, for your reading failure.

What?

[icemanE]

Also I'd like to hear from:

2extreme1
alvinz95
Erratus Apathos
Jenter Brolincani
malthusis
Phate

[icemanE]

leaving eljcko off his list of people who need to post more

Eljcko has posted on this page. Alvin has only posted twice, so that's why he's on the list and Eljcko isnt.

[icemanE]

I think we might just have the quickest win ever--

EA, Aly, and rofl as the three scum. EA's piling up of defense of Aly, combined with the Aly-rofl tag-team, makes me think of a quick three-day win.

Vote: Aly

Aren't you dead?...

[icemanE]

alvin - don't claim, though the hammer was inappropriate. khelvaster is certainly the scummiest.

vote: khelvaster

I apologize for my excessive contribution to that mislynch.

[icemanE]

Unbelievable, I missed mods morning post, we don't have a cop. This is a disaster.

[icemanE]

Alvin, I guess you missed his morning post too, because it says:

Day dawns with two fresh corpses: Jenter Brolincani, Cop, and malthusis, Mason.

So our cop is dead. As is a mason.

[icemanE]

also, iceman, come on, enough with the "omg sucks that we lost a power role" posts. with his partner already dead the second mason was no better than a vanilla townie, and yes a dead cop is sad but i don't think we need to play follow the cop to win this game.

Were there definitely two masons?

[icemanE]

I think at this stage it's clear that rofl is town.

alvin you are a moron no matter what your alignment is.

I doubt he'd say that if he were mafia.

I also don't get the impression that alvin is mafia, despite his hammer and his poor choices so far.

[icemanE]

iceman you are a wifom no matter what your alignment is.

Yes, that's certainly a wifomish post. My point is that I get strong town vibes from it, the tone more than the words. Especially since AlyG was town.

[icemanE]

Iceman, Eljcko: What did Alvinz say that made you think he's town? Use quotes.

Yes master! /bows down

Personally I think he has said far too many silly things to be scum.

One of the better quotations isn't from Alvin at all:

alvin is the village idiot

I'd hesitate to call him "the village idiot" unless that's an actual term used in the game of mafia, because personally, I think insulting someone doesn't do much to convince them to post, and then what's the point? But avlin has made many posts that are rather pointless or just wrong, but not in a scummy way. Look:

What makes you think moves in the random voting stage should be ignored because it is pointless?

That question answers itself, and its an incorrect rephrasing of what I actually said. Ordinarily, of course, this looks incredibly bad, but the sheer magnitude of posts along these lines makes me think he just doesn't think before he posts. If he doesn't think before he posts, he'd have made more telling mistakes by now, if he were scum. Here are some more examples:

In the post where he votes for Khel (when he was actually trying to vote for Aly), this is his "reasoning", I guess:

A gamble that will be wrong.... Sorry guys if this guy turns out town. Thank me if it turns out scum. Lol.

What does that even mean? It looks like a quickhammer, and it is a quickhammer, but something about the way its written (and the fact that he even voted for the wrong person in the post) makes me think that it wasn't a calculated move by scum, but just a stupid stab in the air. It looks like he logged on while he was on the way out the door, slapped the last vote on, and didn't think twice about it. Which is scummy as all hell, but like I said, here are MORE examples of things that should be scummy but aren't because there are so damn many of them that accomplish essentially this exact same thing: making alvin look dumb instead of scum.

Nope, you are totally wrong. Read this.

As it turned out, he was totally wrong.

Actually, I usually don't play like this. This game I'm trying a new style of play. Following the gut feeling.

Ok...

Why did you L-1 Khelvaster already without him giving a single word?

How can you possibly ask that when you hammered Aly the day before without giving him a chance to claim???

If I really didn't like your vote, then I would have unvoted immediately. It was just a question. You overreacted which gives you a scum point. I'm fine with my vote and I believe he is scum.

So after challenging alvin, he muddles up his own argument and says OK, I think he's scum too. WTF?



So in my evaluation, alvin just seems like a player who hasn't taken the time to think through what he says so far. Following that logic, I think he would have made a CLEAR, STRAIGHTFORWARD scumtell if he were scum, and while you can read into his pointless and just plain bizarre posts and postulate that he's scummy based on their sheer weirdness, I get the feeling he's just sort of an airhead. Alvin, sorry if I sound like a dick, but its for your own damn good. Start thinking before you post, especially if you're really 'trying a new playstyle'... I would think you'd do more thinking instead of less if that's the case. Unless that's the playstyle.

[icemanE]

EBWOP: Below my last quotation, it should say "So after challenging rofl", not alvin.

[icemanE]

Alvin you are beginning to step into the territory where lynching you simply to remove you from the game because you're distracting us from accomplishing anything would be to our advantage. I still don't think you're scum but please try help because right now you are working against us.

[icemanE]

xyzzy - thanks for joining the game and laying out an "in-depth" analysis. in which all you accomplish is justifying jumping on the bandwagon.

"That player is presenting rather legitimate arguments on page one! I'm afraid of possible consequences of this, so I'll pretend it's nothing significant and mock this player! I am so smart!"

"Xyzzy is presenting arguments that died on page one! I'm terrified that my bummer comment will come back to haunt me, so I'll make sure to reply to it and dismiss it even though I don't need to because it's irrelevant and meaningless! I am so smart!"



I don't think X is scum, but he seems to be adopting the "I'm an experienced replacement who's about to show you all what-for! What I say is right!" When in fact, I know that nearly everything in his analysis is wrong. I don't particularly want to reveal HOW I know he's wrong right now, but trust me, I know.

[icemanE]

Ah, now I see what X has done! He's gone through the game and found the confirmed townie (AlyG) and decided to demonstrate that A. The townie was good, as was everyone who agreed with him, and B. Everyone who didn't is scummy.

[icemanE]

Additionally, X directly contradicts himself twice in the same post. He states that:

How is agreement scummy?

...but he quotes AlyG saying "Maybe. But how can we be sure. You seem to be very defensive of icaman4. A possible scum pairing?" and responds with:

I agree 100%. This is really odd behaviour.

His next contradiction:

...Given how little information we have so far, bandwagoning is like, the best way ever to get info.

Shortly thereafter, he says "Pressure votes are generally useless early on."



Just something I noticed.

[icemanE]

...No. I didn't so much as look at the dead/living list before reading the game.

[icemanE]

Hey, I am here. I actually wasn't prodded, moddy boy. I don't have much to add at the moment - I still have a good feeling that khelvaster (now X) is mafia. And I still have a VERY good feeling that alvin is not.

icemanE has picked up his prod.

[icemanE]

I will post big tonight or tomorrow, I'll go over what I think of EVERYBODY. Promise.

[icemanE]

Here is the post I promised:

1. 2extreme - Unfortunately there isn't a whole lot of info on 2 right now. Essentially, he has just defended me for the "bummer" post, and popped in for votes. I agree with what EA said:

2extreme1 has done nothing today but bandwagon, first on Khelvaster then on Alvinz. In neither of these two posts does he come up with any insight of his own, and on the Khel vote he doesn't even tell what he finds suspicious of him. Both times, he looks more like he's "going with the flow" than scumhunting.

I also have to be a little weary of him since he's STILL on the CLAIMED DOC'S wagon.

Evaluation: Probably Town, but not too helpful so far.

2. Alvinz - He has been the main center of attention for some time now. I've said what I think of him - Despite the fact that, until recently, he has been entirely useless, I REALLY don't think he's scum. It was a terrible idea to attempt a different playstyle, especially the "village idiot" playstyle that does nothing but distract everyone. I believe his "even night" doctor claim.

Evaluation - Town, unfortunately.

3. Eljcko - Has done a good deal of lurking. When he has posted it has been relatively protown, from what I can tell. He has neither contributed a great deal or done anything particularly scummy. I can't say I agree with EA's evaluation of him... so far, he seems pretty neutral, and I don't get the kind of blips EA has been seeing.

Evaluation - Undecided.

4. EA - Has posted reasonably solid, protown analysis all along. However, his most recent post made me rethink him. I looked back and found this quote:

The only connection between Rofl and Aly is that they're both attacking the same player. It feels like you're trying hard to make a lot, lot more out of the Rofl/Aly connection than there really is, and it smells opportunistic.

Unvote, Vote: Eljcko.

Weak case. Not deserving of a vote, maybe an FoS, maybe.


Additionally, EA has been focused on finding the "scum team" so far, instead of individual scum. While this CAN be productive, it isn't so useful in this case. Here:

They can only be scum if Alvinz is scum (they both declined the opportunity to hammer Alvinz, which they wouldn't have if they were scum and Alvinz town), so if either or both of them is scum then Alvinz must be scum and as such there's no reason to even consider lynching them before Alvinz.

Firstly I don't think you should discount ANYONE, including myself, based on whether or not another player is scum. Also, I don't quite follow your logic on this one, could you elaborate?

Evaluation - On the fence, want my question answered.

5. Min - Has been more or less pro-town all along. Found himself caught up in a pointless, dragged out discussion with alvinz where he continually said "I DONT WANT TO LYNCH YOU ANYMORE", which is unfortunate. I get a good vibe from min and he has done nothing but help the town so far.

Evaluation - Town.

6. Xyzzy - Definite scum.

- He is STILL on the CLAIMED DOC'S wagon and refuses to budge.

I agree with more or less all of Rofl's and alvinz's points against X.

Evaluation - Mafia.

7. Rofl - We disagreed about AlyG and I was proven wrong. I have seen nothing but protown posts from rofl all along.

Evaluation - Town.


In summation, I believe we should lynch X. If I were to pick out who his partners might be, I think I'd go with Eljcko and EA, simply because I'm most unsure about them among the others.

[icemanE]

We're in LyLo, Alvinz was at L-1. If he's town, any scum among Roflcopter, Eljcko, and Iceman could have hammered Alvinz and won. You and Rofl said you weren't going to vote Alvinz at this time, so it is impossible for you or Rofl to be scum and Alvinz to be town.

OK, yes, I see what you're saying now.



Does everyone think that there are three scum?

[icemanE]

This isn't just the pot calling the kettle black. This is the pot joining the KKK, ascending to the rank of Grand Wizard, and then running for president on an apartheid platform so as to get the kettle segregated.

...but... the pot is black, too. How'd he get into the KKK?

[icemanE]

Hey, Kort, get that post in ASAP! Heh heh

[icemanE]

OK, lemme make it simple for you, Korts. X is scum. If you missed my hint in this post, you clearly need things laid on the line for you in very basic terms:

in fact, I know that nearly everything in his analysis is wrong. I don't particularly want to reveal HOW I know he's wrong right now, but trust me, I know.

Also, please, lecture me on what contradiction means. You're making it even clearer than your partner did that you and X are two of the scum.

[icemanE]

you're claiming to have knowledge after one night phase that blows a hole in almost every argument of xyzzy's?

You may not be aware of this as a replacement, but the game started in a night phase, so there have been two so far. And yes, I do have that info.

[icemanE]

The other not-contradiction is that first he states that agreement isn't scummy, and then he agrees with someone else. What's the big contradiction?

The contradiction I saw is that X was agreeing with someone else who said that an agreement between two other players was scummy.

Also, I'm sorry if I'm coming across as a dick, Korts, but I'm getting very frustrated in another game. That's not to say I don't think you are mafia, though.

[icemanE]

icemanE wrote:
Also I'd like to hear from:

2extreme1



What would you like to hear? I've stated my opinions and really don't have much more to say in the matter

FoS 2extreme1 for intentional lurking. This kind of attitude won't help further discussion.

Yeah, that's such a lurk. I asked him what he wanted to hear from me. If i wanted to lurk i wouldn't have posted anything at all.

From the MafiaWiki page on Lurking:

A subset of lurking is the so-called "active lurking", where a player posts in the thread but without making any contribution to the progress of the game. Their posts may be minimal in length, off-topic, or merely parroting what other players have already said.

EA - thanks for meeting that very definition with your post.

[icemanE]

@mod

Khelvaster replaces Phate.

Khelvaster may not reveal his night 0 target, so don't ask.

This quote applies to Khel's replacement of Phate, but does the same RULE apply to xyzzy? He revealed Khel's night target, is this legal or are you not allowed to interfere as X is not a confirmed power role?

xyzzy does not know Khelvaster^1's night 0 target, as he replaced Khelvaster^2. He is free to reveal information about Khelvaster^2's play.

[icemanE]

He requested an extension due to V/LA.

Ok thanks mod, the multiple participations of Khel had me tripped up for a moment.


That being said I also do not believe X's claim.

[icemanE]

Wait, you're saying that in terms of balance an RB replacing a backup RB is less balanced than replacing a scum RB? What difference could it possibly make?

I think what he's saying is that it would be whacked on the mod's part to let the same player who was a roleblocker replace as the backup roleblocker, which is what happened if we are to believe your claim. I don't think the mod would allow it.

[icemanE]

Alvin, thats a good point. I think EA has done that a few times, lemme look into that.

[icemanE]

Though EA did vote for alvinz at the dawn of day 2 instead of khel, that doesn't say much since alvin just hammered out of nowhere, so nvm the above theory, at least for now. Also EA has been upset with 2xtreme for awhile, so I GUESS that explains his vote but its still seems totally out of nowhere.

[icemanE]

Welp, its time for a reread now that we know Mini was town and X was scum, I'll report back later today.

[icemanE]

OK, I'm short on time ATM so I can't post comprehensive reasoning currently, will do later, but I have to say that I agree EA is scum. As far as an EA - Ecto scum team is concerned, I don't know if I can believe that. Ecto (2ex) has been EA's target for scrutiny all game. At this stage either an EA - Korts teams makes sense or an Ecto - Korts team is plausible. I'd like to hear a good deal from Ecto before we even THINK about lynching, though, and I'm not voting until we come to a general concensus, as two votes on the wrong person could potentially put the scum in the hammer position, which would spell game over at MYLO, which is today.

[icemanE]

What alvinz says about the Ecto-EA pair is pretty plausible. You say, icemanE, that EA has constantly kept pressure on 2ex, but don't you find it suspicious that EA would try to keep pushing the 2ex case despite everything else? It was obvious that the 2ex wagon wouldn't go anywhere soon.

That's a valid point, Korts. EA barely acknowledged the wagon on X, who turned up scum. Perhaps, as you suggest, EA meant to dissociate himself with the X wagon by harping on 2ex, knowing that nobody was going to get up in arms against 2ex. That's a good point indeed.

[icemanE]

So tell me, how does switching from "I think xyzzy is town and don't want his lynch" to "I think xyzzy is scum and I intend to hammer him" solely on the basis of his claim constitute ignoring his claim?

It doesn't, but what it says to me is "Oh shit, X made the wrong claim, time to abandon this sinking ship".

How is Ecto-Korts plausible if you agree I'm scum? When did I attack 2ex before post 192?

Q1: Keeping an open mind. Q2: You didn't, but since 204 it's pretty much all you've talked about. You've more or less brushed aside the biggest issues of the game in order to get one player not to lurk, when other than 192, 204, and 287 you've more or less met the very definition you yourself posted on lurking, which is your big point against Ecto.

[icemanE]

Hmm, seems like I'm lurking, though I forgot about this game. I should stand by until Im useful.

You definitely aren't bringing any suspicions down with this little golden nugget.

[icemanE]

C'mon people. Erratus is obvious scum. Put him at L-1, heck hammah him before he can make up a bogus claim.

Yes, alvin, I agree. I'll put him at L-1 -- however, I'd sort of like to hear a claim first. If it's as easy to see through as X's there shouldn't be a problem, but it never hurts to be safe.

vote: EA

[icemanE]

anyone else starting to think ecto might be setting erratus up for the fall by making it seem like they're so obviously connected?

Hmm... that's a possibility, but it might be a bit of a stretch. EA was scummy before Ecto replaced, so it's possible, but I don't know if it's likely.

[icemanE]

Man, its kind of tough to believe there's a nurse in a 12 person game. The town is pretty stacked. Either way, EA is still the clear choice today, after a claim of course. At least he can't claim Nurse now, heh heh.

Also, if the claim is valid, it wasn't too unnecessary - after all, we've got a doc to protect the nurse, and then the nurse can protect the next night - and we play our cards right, that's when we will win.

[icemanE]

iceman, even night doc doesn't get to protect anybody tonight.

korts' softclaim just confused the hell out of me though.

Oh, right. Even nights. Well yeah, the nurse claim sucks then.

I agree about the hinted at claim and kind of wish it didn't happen - we're on our way to a massclaim which sucks for the town, bigtime.

I'm going to think over the nurse claim and look at some previous posts. Right now I'm pretty wary.

[icemanE]

vote: Ecto

Might as well get it over with - EA tomorrow.

[icemanE]

SHITE! Formalities -

unvote - Vote: Ecto

You don't need to unvote before revoting.

[icemanE]

vote: Ecto

Might as well get it over with - EA tomorrow.

There is no tomorrow. Good game Scum.

The mod is looking. Good.

What does that mean?

[icemanE]

Dawn rises with only one corpse... that of

Korts

,

Mafia Odd-Night Doctor

.

The deadline for today is Wednesday, July 23 at 7:30 pm. With 4 alive, it will take 3 to lynch.

AWESOME! How did that happen?

[icemanE]

My guess would be that rofl is a power role of one sort or another, because of the info I obtained last night as tracker: EA targeted rofl, so rofl, all we need is your claim FTW. I'm still in shock - I thought my hammer yesterday was the end of it. What good luck!

[icemanE]

Also we need EA's claim. To verify that he isn't Bodyguard or something. Shite, this is gonna be tougher than I thought - rofl pushed the lynch yesterday.

[icemanE]

ockham's razor states that 'all other things being equal, the simplest solution is best.' so i ask you, which of these scenarios makes more sense.

1) i am scum with korts. we bussed xyzzy. at the same time, i laid the groundwork for bussing korts today.
2) ecto is scum, and his theory is bogus.

So according to your definition, rofl, option 1 is the only remaining choice. I'm assuming you were expecting that there wouldn't be a Day 4 just as much as I wasn't expecting it - what do you have to say for yourself today?

[icemanE]

Also, I targeted Alvinz on night one - an odd night, and he didn't do anything that night, which verifies his even-night doc claim. The scum is unquestionably either rofl or EA, and I look forward to your claims.

[icemanE]

Fuck, this is confusing me.

Yeah, we were clearly duped yesterday. The thing is, if rofl were scum, he would have gone along with the EA wagon just as readily as he went for Ecto - that's the thing I don't get. It would have been just as easy for rofl to kill EA as it was ecto. GAH, this sucks, the scum made the right choice in leaving alvin and I to decide the outcome of this game.

[icemanE]

A: EA is scum didn't send in a kill, Rofl is vigilante killed korts.
B: Vice versa.

My report says that EA targeted rofl, so if he is the scum, he sent in the report. If rofl is vigilante and killed korts, does that stop the scum from killing? Because there was no town casualty last night, so either the scum killed one of their own (which makes no sense, as they could have killed a townie easily and already won) or something really f'ed up happened last night.

Mod - you may not be able to answer either of these questions during the game, but I'm gonna ask them anyways:

1. If the vigilante kills one of two scum partners during the night, does that negate the scum kill?

The vigilante role PM in the first post says nothing about doing a roleblock too, so no.

2. When the scum send in a report, does a tracker report show them both doing an action, or only the one that actually sent in the report?

A tracker only detects actions done by the player tracked.

[icemanE]

Alvin, I agree. This is totally f'ed up. But I don't think we should do any more speculating on roles - that just gives people ideas. For example I didn't think of the backup role-blocker claim for rofl until you mentioned it, and its totally plausible. Now he can easily just claim that and it'll be believable. Also - no one vote until we figure this all out. If someone stacks two votes and the scum hammers to win, I'm gonna be pissed, especially since I have the chance to redeem myself after yesterday's screw up.

[icemanE]

I don't think that claim would work, cause then how did Korts die?

Good point. I'm gonna go take a shower and think about this.

[icemanE]

Erratus Apathos targets Roflcopter.
-This means that erratus CANNOT be the town vigilante

Not neccesarilly true, as Korts was the odd night mafia doc. As such, he probably used his powers last night. This would have protected rofl from the vig's shot.

[icemanE]

What doesn't make sense about the theory I mentioned is that Korts died. He was clearly the vig's target.

[icemanE]

Icemann is the Tracker (can we be sure?)

If you want my reports from nights zero and two, I followed Malthusis (mason) night zero with no information gathered and Minineko (townie) night two with no info gained either.

[icemanE]

OK, just some role descriptions on the wiki.

First, the godfather:

A common addition to the Mafia family. The Godfather heads the family, and is in charge of sending night kill choices to the Game Moderator. Also, the Godfather usually appears innocent to Cops. In games with multiple families or other roles that can kill at night (such as the Vigilante), the Godfather may also be immune to being killed at night.

At first I thought the scum could be a godfather, immune to a night kill from the vig. But Korts died. So that's out.

The bomb:

Perhaps there is no vig at all! A bomb is an easy possible explanation:

This role is usually designed to kill anyone who night kills it, or sometimes even the first person to target it. The second option makes it more dangerous to the town and thus a liability, whereas the first variation can become nearly impossible to get rid of in the endgame for scum.

Rofl could be bomb.

That's really the only explanation I can imagine right now.

[icemanE]

EA: Out of curiosity, what was the reasoning behind your choices for investigation, other than night one? Korts seems like a strange choice for night 2.

[icemanE]

Additionally, EA, your claim of gunsmith does not explain the death of Korts, the mafia doc. Do you have any opinions on how that happened?

Like I said, the mafia could have killed one of their own but that makes no sense considering how easily they could have won.

[icemanE]

The bomb of rofl makes sense, because it is possible that Jenter (the cop) died when investigating rofl. I'm hesitant on believing EA's claim.

Great point. I forgot that there were 2 casualties on N1. Here's the other possibility I see:

EA is scum.
Rofl is Serial Killer.

I think the SK's shot overrides the scums shot. Therefore, since EA aimed at rofl, and rofl aimed at Korts, Korts died instead of rofl. Also, this would make sense because in order for the SK to win he has to break it down so that there is only ONE remaining member of the town - i.e., he equals the number of townies alive. This ALSO explains why 2 people died on N-1. Judging by the way this game has been set up, with so many even/odd roles, I wouldn't be at all surprised if he was an

ODD NIGHT SERIAL KILLER

That's why there weren't 2 kills on nights zero and two.

I think I've figured it out.

[icemanE]

If this is the case, the only choice we have is to pick which of the two we think deserves to win. We can't very well stop their NK because, while we have a doctor, we don't have anyone to protect him. Sadly, if I'm right in the above theory, the town loses either way.

I'm really looking forward to hearing from rofl and praying I'm wrong.

[icemanE]

Then again, odd-night vig is just as plausible, I guess, if the vig's shot works the same was as the SK's in overriding the mafia kill. If rofl is the vig it's unfortunate that he chose to shoot N1 as we lost the cop and it might have been his shot.

[icemanE]

How does this "overriding" thing work?

Well, from my experience at Epic Mafia, if an SK shoots scum and scum shoots an SK, the scum dies and the other lives on.

[icemanE]

we have to ask the mod on that one....

Yup. I asked him a couple questions earlier and I'm hoping he's allowed to answer them in-game.

I answered.

[icemanE]

The vig claim makes sense and I believe it. The gunsmith claim doesn't. However, I'm still curious why the scum weren't able to make a kill last night. If EA would kindly answer either now or after the game I'd appreciate it.

vote: EA

[icemanE]

last night i shot korts. primarily because of this:
Korts wrote:
Ectomancer wrote:
Korts wrote:
Pretty shiny last words, considering. Now, hammah time!


You guys really are impatient for the mod to show that I was right. Wipe the drool off your face, jeesus. Rolling Eyes


I lol'd Very Happy

along with a careful reread and reaffirmation of what had made me suspicious the day before. that quote really, really looked like a celebration of scum who thought he had just won the game.

Yup. This pretty much verifies the claim for me. I was thinking the exact same thing when I reread that page and saw that Ecto was the nurse, and I would have shot him if I were the vig too.

[icemanE]

unvote

im gonna reread this thing.

[icemanE]

Yeah, the thing is, EA, that your claim makes it pretty much impossible to believe that you aren't scum, because Korts died last night. Someone had to have done something to make that happen - i.e., someone had to kill him. Somehow I doubt rofl decided to drag the game out to day 4 by killing his partner at night instead of just knocking off a townie at night. After all, he plays by the policy of Ockham's razor, and that's a pretty complex solution.

vote: EA

[icemanE]

This means that there was ONE player in this game who was not a power role (if you count the masons as power roles). Wowzers.

You might be right about the SK thing. Additionally, your point about him being the vig makes sense, because if we kill you and he is the SK, we lose, and if we NL, we have two chances of winning and two chances of losing:

1. Both scum shoot alvin, who prots me. Then on night 5 who knows what happens.
2. One scum shoots the other, and one shoots alvin, leaving us at a loss.
3. Both scum shoot each other, a town win.
4. Rofl is the vig, and he shoots EA.

Since we can't technically know that rofl is the vig until tomorrow, it's worth the NL just in case.

OK, alvin, vote no one and protect me tonight please. Let's cross our fingers.

unvote - vote: No one

[icemanE]

Well it was his best option I guess. We'll see if we made the correct choice now.

[icemanE]

Yeah, I'm really pissed that I figured it out this late. I mean, I really had no way of telling that you were a vig or a serial killer up until yesterday, and even then, i was leaning towards vig because of how pro town you seemed all game.

So clearly, I don't need to put too much thought into this one. You played an excellent game, rofl, and the mafia did not. They were fairly obvious, setting aside Korts, of whom I had no suspicions.

I have a confession to make now. I lied earlier. I AM the tracker, but my night one target was not Malth. Rather, it was AlyG, but I completely forgot that the results I got after I investigated him told me he had done nothing on the night before. Therefore, I screwed this game up from day one, as I campaigned for Aly's lynch, setting us off on a horrible foot that eventually led to yesterday, where the town's opponents made the brilliant choice of leaving Alvin and I alive to combine our mental powers just enough to realize that we were fucked. And then it came to today, where I'm left to decide who earned the win more.

It's a clear choice.

vote: EA

Endgame assessment:

IcemanE - Epic Fail
Roflcopter - Epic Win
EA - Meh.



The End.