Mini 592: Xyl's Mafia 1 - Game over!

[Erratus Apathos]

Vote: Roflcopter

You can't build an aeronautic means of locomotion that runs on uncontrollable laughter. Lynch all liars!

[Erratus Apathos]

I am not about to lynch Ice over AlyG.

thejivemachine was probably under the stupid category.

I am growing more and more convinced that rofl and aly are connected, and not in a good way

The only connection between Rofl and Aly is that they're both attacking the same player. It feels like you're trying hard to make a lot,

lot

more out of the Rofl/Aly connection than there really is, and it smells opportunistic.

Unvote, Vote: Eljcko

[Erratus Apathos]

Let's see EA.

Posts 7 and 8 show connection

Posts 7 and 8 show two players agreeing on a very debatable point. They show no more connection than posts 11, 18, and 29 show connection.

Post 14 is a good example:

We

never said it was a definite scumtell but it can be slightly as the person could be trying to distance themselves from the mafia so it's better than a random vote.

Way to take a word out of context. "We never said it was a definite scumtell" isn't Aly speaking on Rofl's behalf, it's simply a statement of fact.

Maybe. But how can we be sure. You seem to be very defensive of icaman4. A possible scum pairing?

You also do not want to agree with me.

FOS: 2extreme1

I do not like the fact that he FOS'ed extreme just because of the fact that they disagree

And this is an even more ridiculous context-mangling. Aly FoS'd 2ex for being defensive of Iceman and made that point as a minor addition, but you're taking it as not just the focal point of the FoS but the only point.

you keep saying there's this connection between me and alyg but all the evidence you bring up is still him attaching himself to my case and nothing actually coming from me.

QFT. Ascertaining rofl's alignment from Aly's actions is bad play. Let's stick to ascertaining rofl's alignment from rofl's actions.

One player can make the other look bad by buddying up with him, even if the other player denies it. That's the difference: no matter how good one player is, if the other is bad enough, he'll make both look scummy.

And that's a damn good incentive for a scumbag to buddy up with a townie. Welcome to WIFOMville, population: you.

FoS: IcemanE

[Erratus Apathos]

Eljcko and Iceman continue to set off my scumdar. Iceman for leaving eljcko off his list of people who need to post more; Eljcko for outright ignoring post 42.

And that's a damn good incentive for a scumbag to buddy up with a townie. Welcome to WIFOMville, population: you.

Where's evidence of myself buddying with a townie, out of curiosity?

That's not at all what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that Aly's attempts to buddy up with rofl isn't evidence against rofl, but you're trying to use them against him anyways.

[Erratus Apathos]

Awww.... I was wrong. Sorry guys. But still ya'll are out to get me for this so I should claim soon.

You're right, suspicious players should claim before they get lynched.

Vote: Alvinz95

[Erratus Apathos]

Only scum would have not NK'ed me. Leave me to die for Day 2 eh? Start the wagon?

What in the world was the purpose of this post?

I think at this stage it's clear that rofl is town.

alvin you are a moron no matter what your alignment is.

I doubt he'd say that if he were mafia.

iceman you are a wifom no matter what your alignment is.

[Erratus Apathos]

Iceman, Eljcko: What did Alvinz say that made you think he's town? Use quotes.

Alvinz: Why didn't you let Aly claim?

Khelvaster: Would you describe yourself as egotistical?

[Erratus Apathos]

Alvinz: Why didn't you let Aly claim?

Cause I'm playing recklessly in this game and trying out a new style which is acting incredibly scummy :P .

That's not what I meant. What I meant is, what disadvantage did you expect would come out of letting Aly claim?

[Erratus Apathos]

Really, I

the only people on me should be scum

since they probably laughed really hard when I hammered for the heck of it. Yes I am a town idiot.

Oh really, because that's not what you said at the day's onset:

Awww.... I was wrong. Sorry guys.

But still ya'll are out to get me for this

so I should claim soon.

So what changed?

I'm not sure how useful a meta-read on alvinz is since he's not playing like he did in any of his previous games, but there's one thing I am certain on: unless he's somehow managed to drop several dozen IQ points in between when I read him and this game, I don't believe for a second that he's a "village idiot". He knows damn well what he's doing, and I know he knows.

[Erratus Apathos]

Alvinz: What evidence led you to the conclusion that "most likely all the scum are on my wagon"?

Roflcopter: How exactly does your plan to lynch Xyzzy today and Eljcko tomorrow differ from Khelvaster/Xyzzy's "ducks in a row", "lining up his next few mislynches", et cetera?

[Erratus Apathos]

I spent too much time focusing on my other games and don't have any for this one tonight, sorry. Big post soon, I promise.

[Erratus Apathos]

Here's my analysis of each of today's lynch candidates. You'll notice I left off Roflcopter and IcemanE, this is intentional. They can only be scum if Alvinz is scum (they both declined the opportunity to hammer Alvinz, which they wouldn't have if they were scum and Alvinz town), so if either or both of them is scum then Alvinz must be scum and as such there's no reason to even consider lynching them before Alvinz.

2extreme1

has done nothing today but bandwagon, first on Khelvaster then on Alvinz. In neither of these two posts does he come up with any insight of his own, and on the Khel vote he doesn't even tell what he finds suspicious of him. Both times, he looks more like he's "going with the flow" than scumhunting.

Not convinced he's scum, but I may pressure vote him if he continues down the path of few small posts.

-----

Alvinz95

still sets my scumdar ablaze. I've played in a game where he was town before, and if I had a dollar for every difference between his play in that game and this one, I'd... uh... have a lot of money. (Sorry, my cleverness seems to be shot today.) His "village idiot" defense is crap and my attempt to get him to give his real reason for quick-hammering Aly went unsuccessful, and there's no reason for a townie to be hiding that.

-----

Eljcko

has by far the strongest scum read other than Alvinz. All he's done today is try to stall the Alvinz wagon and then lurk like a champ. Combined with the craplogic from yesterday I still haven't seen him do anything I'd call protown. Actually since the Alvinz wagon has gone as far as it's gonna go at the moment and Eljcko needs some pressure I think he's a better use of my vote, so

Unvote, Vote: Eljcko

-----

Minineko

is the towniest player to me. I see no scumming under his name, only good analysis. Not much more I have to say about him.

-----

Xyzzy

I get a mixed signal from.

In general

I agree with the analysis he posts, but the attack on Alvinz/Ice/Eljcko and subsequent attack on Alvinz/Ice but not Eljcko makes no town sense. If Eljcko turns up scum, I would support a Xyzzy lynch.

I believe that answers everything asked of me, and more.

[Erratus Apathos]

The only connection between Rofl and Aly is that they're both attacking the same player. It feels like you're trying hard to make a lot, lot more out of the Rofl/Aly connection than there really is, and it smells opportunistic.

Unvote, Vote: Eljcko.

Weak case. Not deserving of a vote, maybe an FoS, maybe.

No shit it was weak, it was my first step out of the random voting stage. Try finding someone with a strong case on page 2.

They can only be scum if Alvinz is scum (they both declined the opportunity to hammer Alvinz, which they wouldn't have if they were scum and Alvinz town), so if either or both of them is scum then Alvinz must be scum and as such there's no reason to even consider lynching them before Alvinz.

Firstly I don't think you should discount ANYONE, including myself, based on whether or not another player is scum. Also, I don't quite follow your logic on this one, could you elaborate?

We're in LyLo, Alvinz was at L-1. If he's town, any scum among Roflcopter, Eljcko, and Iceman could have hammered Alvinz and won. You and Rofl said you weren't going to vote Alvinz at this time, so it is impossible for you or Rofl to be scum and Alvinz to be town.

and YOU, have not been too helpful.

This isn't just the pot calling the kettle black. This is the pot joining the KKK, ascending to the rank of Grand Wizard, and then running for president on an apartheid platform so as to get the kettle segregated.

[Erratus Apathos]

icemanE wrote:
Also I'd like to hear from:

2extreme1



What would you like to hear? I've stated my opinions and really don't have much more to say in the matter

FoS 2extreme1 for intentional lurking. This kind of attitude won't help further discussion.

Yeah, that's such a lurk. I asked him what he wanted to hear from me. If i wanted to lurk i wouldn't have posted anything at all.

From the MafiaWiki page on Lurking:

A subset of lurking is the so-called "active lurking", where a player posts in the thread but without making any contribution to the progress of the game. Their posts may be minimal in length, off-topic, or merely parroting what other players have already said.

[Erratus Apathos]

icemanE wrote:
Also I'd like to hear from:

2extreme1



What would you like to hear? I've stated my opinions and really don't have much more to say in the matter

FoS 2extreme1 for intentional lurking. This kind of attitude won't help further discussion.

Yeah, that's such a lurk. I asked him what he wanted to hear from me. If i wanted to lurk i wouldn't have posted anything at all.

From the MafiaWiki page on Lurking:

A subset of lurking is the so-called "active lurking", where a player posts in the thread but without making any contribution to the progress of the game. Their posts may be minimal in length, off-topic, or merely parroting what other players have already said.

EA - thanks for meeting that very definition with your post.

NO U

[Erratus Apathos]

oh my, erratus, your last two posts give such a strong impression of activity, but i can't seem to find any contribution therein to the forward progress of this game.

As opposed to all the other posts since Xyzzy was put on L-1 that made fuckloads of forward progress, right. Nobody's done anything to change my opinion of them since 192.

[Erratus Apathos]

I've lost all patience waiting for 2ex to post something substantial. He needs to at least post a suspect list

TODAY

, no exception.

Unvote, vote: 2extreme1

[Erratus Apathos]

no, i'm not saying in terms of balance it would be broken, i'm saying in terms of fairmodding the first roleblocker shouldn't replace a hypothetical backup roleblocker because the backup roleblocker shouldn't know the first roleblocker's N0 target. i'm 100% confident however that this didn't happen and you are scum.

Good point.

I still think it's important that 2ex posts a suspect list before getting a chance to nighttalk. Once that happens the hammer will fall.

[Erratus Apathos]

Vote: Erratus Apathos

-Completely ignoring xyzzy's claim

o rly

no, i'm not saying in terms of balance it would be broken, i'm saying in terms of fairmodding the first roleblocker shouldn't replace a hypothetical backup roleblocker because the backup roleblocker shouldn't know the first roleblocker's N0 target. i'm 100% confident however that this didn't happen and you are scum.

Good point.

I still think it's important that 2ex posts a suspect list before getting a chance to nighttalk. Once that happens the hammer will fall.

So tell me, how does switching from "I think xyzzy is town and don't want his lynch" to "I think xyzzy is scum and I intend to hammer him"

solely on the basis of his claim

constitute ignoring his claim?

-Jumping on my wagon

Oh your god, I suck.

-Basically on xyzzy's side(scum)

You are right, everyone who thought xyzzy was town must be scum. I don't have the faintest idea how Minineko and I expected to get away with our obvscummery.

OK, I'm short on time ATM so I can't post comprehensive reasoning currently, will do later, but I have to say that I agree EA is scum. As far as an EA - Ecto scum team is concerned, I don't know if I can believe that. Ecto (2ex) has been EA's target for scrutiny all game. At this stage either an EA - Korts teams makes sense or an Ecto - Korts team is plausible.

How is Ecto-Korts plausible if you agree I'm scum? When did I attack 2ex before post 192?

What alvinz says about the Ecto-EA pair is pretty plausible. You say, icemanE, that EA has constantly kept pressure on 2ex, but don't you find it suspicious that EA would try to keep pushing the 2ex case despite everything else? It was obvious that the 2ex wagon wouldn't go anywhere soon.

Quoted for obvscummery. You yourself said this yesterday:

EA does have a point, though. Extreme shouldn't duck out of contributing once in a while.

Yesterday the 2ex pressure was protown, now all of a sudden it's scummy? Try to justify that without making me laugh.

EA barely acknowledged the wagon on X, who turned up scum. Perhaps, as you suggest, EA meant to dissociate himself with the X wagon by harping on 2ex, knowing that nobody was going to get up in arms against 2ex.

I said in post 192 that I thought xyzzy was town, I don't know how much clearer I could have been regarding him. And yes I was aware that 2ex wouldn't get wagoned. That wasn't my goal, my goal was simply to get him to post.

[Erratus Apathos]

The bomb:

Perhaps there is no vig at all! A bomb is an easy possible explanation:

This role is usually designed to kill anyone who night kills it, or sometimes even the first person to target it. The second option makes it more dangerous to the town and thus a liability, whereas the first variation can become nearly impossible to get rid of in the endgame for scum.

Rofl could be bomb.

That's really the only explanation I can imagine right now.

Forgotten your result from last night already? If he's a bomb/army veteran/PGO, I'd be dead too.

Anyways, claim time. I'm a

gunsmith

.

N0: AlyG, gunless.
N1: Alvinz, no result.
N2: Korts, gun.
N3: Rofl, gun.

Rofl claim.

[Erratus Apathos]

N0 Aly was random obv. N2 Korts was because of his unexplained jump onto the Xyzzy wagon, which resembled a bus so much that it was bright yellow and taking children to school. N3 Rofl because he spent all day votehopping onto the easiest lynches yesterday.

[Erratus Apathos]

night two i decided not to shoot after my mishap the night before, and since i was torn on which of korts and erratus would be scum and didn't want to misfire again.

So I was on a game show this one time, and the host offered me two briefcases filled with thousands of dollars, and told me to pick one. I couldn't figure out which one had the most money in it, so I did the only sensible thing and turned both of them down.

THAT is how full of shit you are. And even if we pretend that you really did lose your trademark huge cajones and send in a nokill, this doesn't match up one bit with reality. Prior to night two, you were CERTAIN that the remaining scumpair was Korts/Neko, it wasn't until after Neko came up town that you suspected me. But pretending you were suspicious of me the whole time is more convenient for building a crapwagon on me, isn't it? Lynch all revisionist historians.

Vote: Roflcopter

[Erratus Apathos]

Yeah since there are clearly two killing roles and both Alvinz and Iceman are confirmed, that does kind of leave me as the one with some splaining to do. I'm the

Mafia Framer

. My actual targets:

N0: 2extreme1 (frame)
N1: malthusis (kill)
N2: roflcopter (kill)
N3: roflcopter (kill)

Notice anything? (A) rofl has at least one shot of NK-immunity and (B) rofl also lied about N2, mafia didn't kill neko so I know he did. Rofl is the SK. Meaning, if you lynch me you're fucked and if you lynch him you're fucked. The only reasonable play for town is no lynch, Alvinz protects Iceman to ensure both townies don't die, and pray for crossfire. (And even if rofl was a vig and not an SK, if we no lynch then he would theoretically shoot me tonight and you'll win anyways.)

Unvote, Vote: No lynch

[Erratus Apathos]

Three times in a row