Well, that's a bummer.Xylthixlm wrote:Day 1 dawns withKhelvasterdead. He was a protownRoleblocker.
The deadline for today is June 1 at 9 PM Pacific. With 11 alive, it will take 6 to lynch.
Mini 592: Xyl's Mafia 1 - Game over!
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icemanE Mafia Scum
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Beyond being OMGUS, I think the most obvious scumtell so far is the obvious alliance between AlyG and Rofl. I just hope they aren't such bad players that they're actually the scum. AlyG might be that bad a player though, from what I've seen so far. I wouldn't be too suspicious of Rofl if not for Aly.
I mean, seriously. Look at that.AlyG wrote: Now he's trying not to look over-defensive by just laughing at your theory.-
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icemanE Mafia Scum
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While putting a second vote is technically bandwagoning, I wouldn't get too worked up over my vote. We're on the second page.I found you slightly scummy with the "bummer" thing and i agreed with rofl because i saw it as so. I don't think you can really accuse me of bandwagoning after putting only the second vote on you after i thought you looked scummy, and on the first page. Now what's making you look even worse was by just OMGUS'ing me back after i had voted you.-
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icemanE Mafia Scum
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One player can make the other look bad by buddying up with him, even if the other player denies it. That's the difference: no matter how good one player is, if the other is bad enough, he'll make both look scummy. Based on the small amount of evidence we have so far I'm not entirely convinced that you're both scum, but that's the scummiest thing I've seen so far this game so I'm going with it.rofl wrote: you keep saying there's this connection between me and alyg but all the evidence you bring up is still him attaching himself to my case and nothing actually coming from me. does one person agreeing with another person's argument on page one automatically make them scum together?-
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icemanE Mafia Scum
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Hahaha! What the hell else did you want me to say in the first player post of the game???Minineko wrote:
Yes, in a sense it is. Scum often want to act dissapointed about the death of a power role. It's not that big a tell - but it does seem odd that he would jump in to say only that.eljcko wrote:1) Saying that "bummer" is not a scum-tell after a power role died right away. [rofl, AlyG,]
Meow.-
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icemanE Mafia Scum
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I like that the random voting stage ended VERY quickly in this game, it's a relatively pointless part of the game. If nothing else, my "tell" (which is obviously being looked WAY too far into, considering its even still being discussed) accomplished that.
I may or may not be slightly inactive for the next few days, final papers to write.-
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icemanE Mafia Scum
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Compared to the rest of the game, which is based on info and observations instead of random punches in the dark, its pretty pointless. Good things come out of it obviously, but discussion gets going quicker when people like Rofl over analyze a post like my first one.alvinz95 wrote:
What makes you think moves in the random voting stage should be ignored because it is pointless?iceman wrote:I like that the random voting stage ended VERY quickly in this game, it's a relatively pointless part of the game.-
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icemanE Mafia Scum
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Just out of curiosity, which of my posts did you find strange? I think they're all fairly straightforward:icemanE's first post sort of baffles me. Part of the reason I'm not really comfortable using it as a big tell against him is that I don't know what to make of it. It sticks out more as strange than anything else, to me.
3: The bummer post
18: Vote for AlyG in the random stage, slightly OMGUS because he made a big deal of nothing.
24: Laughing at Rofl
26: Proposal that they're might be a link between Rofl and AlyG
36: Explaining to AlyG that 2 votes is technically the start of a bandwagon, and that my one vote on him isn't anything to freak out about.
41: I think this is the one you might have found strange. "One player can make the other look bad by buddying up with him, even if the other player denies it. That's the difference: no matter how good one player is, if the other is bad enough, he'll make both look scummy. Based on the small amount of evidence we have so far I'm not entirely convinced that you're both scum, but that's the scummiest thing I've seen so far this game so I'm going with it." But I don't see anything strange about it.
43: Asking this questionof EA: "Where's evidence of myself buddying with a townie, out of curiosity?" Which was never answered.
45: Laughing at Minineko for criticizing me for not posting more in the first player post of the game. Which I still think is funny.
54: Saying I'm glad the random stage ended quickly.
56: Laughing at Rofl again.
58: Repeat of 54.
What's strange?
I'll tell you what's strange! You forgot to Meow in post 53!-
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icemanE Mafia Scum
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Were there definitely two masons?roflcopter wrote:also, iceman, come on, enough with the "omg sucks that we lost a power role" posts. with his partner already dead the second mason was no better than a vanilla townie, and yes a dead cop is sad but i don't think we need to play follow the cop to win this game.-
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Yes master! /bows downErratus Apathos wrote:Iceman, Eljcko: What did Alvinz say that made you think he's town? Use quotes.
Personally I think he has said far too many silly things to be scum.
One of the better quotations isn't from Alvin at all:
rofl wrote:alvin is the village idiot
I'd hesitate to call him "the village idiot" unless that's an actual term used in the game of mafia, because personally, I think insulting someone doesn't do much to convince them to post, and then what's the point? But avlin has made many posts that are rather pointless or just wrong, but not in a scummy way. Look:
That question answers itself, and its an incorrect rephrasing of what I actually said. Ordinarily, of course, this looks incredibly bad, but the sheer magnitude of posts along these lines makes me think he just doesn't think before he posts. If he doesn't think before he posts, he'd have made more telling mistakes by now, if he were scum. Here are some more examples:alvin wrote:
What makes you think moves in the random voting stage should be ignored because it is pointless?
In the post where he votes for Khel (when he was actually trying to vote for Aly), this is his "reasoning", I guess:
What does that even mean? It looks like a quickhammer, and it is a quickhammer, but something about the way its written (and the fact that he even voted for the wrong person in the post) makes me think that it wasn't a calculated move by scum, but just a stupid stab in the air. It looks like he logged on while he was on the way out the door, slapped the last vote on, and didn't think twice about it. Which is scummy as all hell, but like I said, here are MORE examples of things that should be scummy but aren't because there are so damn many of them that accomplish essentially this exact same thing: making alvin look dumb instead of scum.A gamble that will be wrong.... Sorry guys if this guy turns out town. Thank me if it turns out scum. Lol.
As it turned out, he was totally wrong.alvin wrote:Nope, you are totally wrong. Read this.
Ok...alvin wrote: Actually, I usually don't play like this. This game I'm trying a new style of play. Following the gut feeling.
How can you possibly ask that when you hammered Aly the day before without giving him a chance to claim???alvin wrote: Why did you L-1 Khelvaster already without him giving a single word?
alvin wrote:If I really didn't like your vote, then I would have unvoted immediately. It was just a question. You overreacted which gives you a scum point. I'm fine with my vote and I believe he is scum.
So after challenging alvin, he muddles up his own argument and says OK, I think he's scum too. WTF?
So in my evaluation, alvin just seems like a player who hasn't taken the time to think through what he says so far. Following that logic, I think he would have made a CLEAR, STRAIGHTFORWARD scumtell if he were scum, and while you can read into his pointless and just plain bizarre posts and postulate that he's scummy based on their sheer weirdness, I get the feeling he's just sort of an airhead. Alvin, sorry if I sound like a dick, but its for your own damn good. Start thinking before you post, especially if you're really 'trying a new playstyle'... I would think you'd do more thinking instead of less if that's the case. Unless that's the playstyle.-
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icemanE Mafia Scum
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xyzzy - thanks for joining the game and laying out an "in-depth" analysis. in which all you accomplish is justifying jumping on the bandwagon.
"Xyzzy is presenting arguments that died on page one! I'm terrified that my bummer comment will come back to haunt me, so I'll make sure to reply to it and dismiss it even though I don't need to because it's irrelevant and meaningless! I am so smart!"xyzzy wrote: "That player is presenting rather legitimate arguments on page one! I'm afraid of possible consequences of this, so I'll pretend it's nothing significant and mock this player! I am so smart!"
I don't think X is scum, but he seems to be adopting the "I'm an experienced replacement who's about to show you all what-for! What I say is right!" When in fact, I know that nearly everything in his analysis is wrong. I don't particularly want to reveal HOW I know he's wrong right now, but trust me, I know.-
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icemanE Mafia Scum
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Additionally, X directly contradicts himself twice in the same post. He states that:
...but he quotes AlyG saying "Maybe. But how can we be sure. You seem to be very defensive of icaman4. A possible scum pairing?" and responds with:How is agreement scummy?
His next contradiction:I agree 100%. This is really odd behaviour.
Shortly thereafter, he says "Pressure votes are generally useless early on."...Given how little information we have so far, bandwagoning is like, the best way ever to get info.
Just something I noticed.-
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icemanE Mafia Scum
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Here is the post I promised:
1. 2extreme - Unfortunately there isn't a whole lot of info on 2 right now. Essentially, he has just defended me for the "bummer" post, and popped in for votes. I agree with what EA said:
I also have to be a little weary of him since he's STILL on the CLAIMED DOC'S wagon.EA wrote:2extreme1 has done nothing today but bandwagon, first on Khelvaster then on Alvinz. In neither of these two posts does he come up with any insight of his own, and on the Khel vote he doesn't even tell what he finds suspicious of him. Both times, he looks more like he's "going with the flow" than scumhunting.
Evaluation: Probably Town, but not too helpful so far.
2. Alvinz - He has been the main center of attention for some time now. I've said what I think of him - Despite the fact that, until recently, he has been entirely useless, I REALLY don't think he's scum. It was a terrible idea to attempt a different playstyle, especially the "village idiot" playstyle that does nothing but distract everyone. I believe his "even night" doctor claim.
Evaluation - Town, unfortunately.
3. Eljcko - Has done a good deal of lurking. When he has posted it has been relatively protown, from what I can tell. He has neither contributed a great deal or done anything particularly scummy. I can't say I agree with EA's evaluation of him... so far, he seems pretty neutral, and I don't get the kind of blips EA has been seeing.
Evaluation - Undecided.
4. EA - Has posted reasonably solid, protown analysis all along. However, his most recent post made me rethink him. I looked back and found this quote:
Weak case. Not deserving of a vote, maybe an FoS, maybe.EA wrote:The only connection between Rofl and Aly is that they're both attacking the same player. It feels like you're trying hard to make a lot, lot more out of the Rofl/Aly connection than there really is, and it smells opportunistic.
Unvote, Vote: Eljcko.
Additionally, EA has been focused on finding the "scum team" so far, instead of individual scum. While this CAN be productive, it isn't so useful in this case. Here:
Firstly I don't think you should discount ANYONE, including myself, based on whether or not another player is scum. Also, I don't quite follow your logic on this one, could you elaborate?EA wrote:They can only be scum if Alvinz is scum (they both declined the opportunity to hammer Alvinz, which they wouldn't have if they were scum and Alvinz town), so if either or both of them is scum then Alvinz must be scum and as such there's no reason to even consider lynching them before Alvinz.
Evaluation - On the fence, want my question answered.
5. Min - Has been more or less pro-town all along. Found himself caught up in a pointless, dragged out discussion with alvinz where he continually said "I DONT WANT TO LYNCH YOU ANYMORE", which is unfortunate. I get a good vibe from min and he has done nothing but help the town so far.
Evaluation - Town.
6. Xyzzy - Definite scum.
- He is STILL on the CLAIMED DOC'S wagon and refuses to budge.
I agree with more or less all of Rofl's and alvinz's points against X.
Evaluation - Mafia.
7. Rofl - We disagreed about AlyG and I was proven wrong. I have seen nothing but protown posts from rofl all along.
Evaluation - Town.
In summation, I believe we should lynch X. If I were to pick out who his partners might be, I think I'd go with Eljcko and EA, simply because I'm most unsure about them among the others.
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OK, yes, I see what you're saying now.We're in LyLo, Alvinz was at L-1. If he's town, any scum among Roflcopter, Eljcko, and Iceman could have hammered Alvinz and won. You and Rofl said you weren't going to vote Alvinz at this time, so it is impossible for you or Rofl to be scum and Alvinz to be town.
Does everyone think that there are three scum?-
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icemanE Mafia Scum
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OK, lemme make it simple for you, Korts. X is scum. If you missed my hint in this post, you clearly need things laid on the line for you in very basic terms:
me wrote: in fact, I know that nearly everything in his analysis is wrong. I don't particularly want to reveal HOW I know he's wrong right now, but trust me, I know.
Also, please, lecture me on what contradiction means. You're making it even clearer than your partner did that you and X are two of the scum.-
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icemanE Mafia Scum
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The contradiction I saw is that X was agreeing with someone else who said that an agreement between two other players was scummy.The other not-contradiction is that first he states that agreement isn't scummy, and then he agrees with someone else. What's the big contradiction?
Also, I'm sorry if I'm coming across as a dick, Korts, but I'm getting very frustrated in another game. That's not to say I don't think you are mafia, though.-
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EA - thanks for meeting that very definition with your post.Erratus Apathos wrote:
From the MafiaWiki page on Lurking:2extreme1 wrote:
Yeah, that's such a lurk. I asked him what he wanted to hear from me. If i wanted to lurk i wouldn't have posted anything at all.icemanE wrote:
Also I'd like to hear from:
2extreme1
What would you like to hear? I've stated my opinions and really don't have much more to say in the matter
FoS 2extreme1 for intentional lurking. This kind of attitude won't help further discussion.MafiaWiki wrote:A subset of lurking is the so-called "active lurking", where a player posts in the thread but without making any contribution to the progress of the game. Their posts may be minimal in length, off-topic, or merely parroting what other players have already said.-
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@mod
This quote applies to Khel's replacement of Phate, but does the same RULE apply to xyzzy? He revealed Khel's night target, is this legal or are you not allowed to interfere as X is not a confirmed power role?Khelvaster replaces Phate.
Khelvaster may not reveal his night 0 target, so don't ask.
xyzzy does not know Khelvaster^1's night 0 target, as he replaced Khelvaster^2. He is free to reveal information about Khelvaster^2's play.-
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icemanE Mafia Scum
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I think what he's saying is that it would be whacked on the mod's part to let the same player who was a roleblocker replace as the backup roleblocker, which is what happened if we are to believe your claim. I don't think the mod would allow it.Wait, you're saying that in terms of balance an RB replacing a backup RB is less balanced than replacing a scum RB? What difference could it possibly make?-
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icemanE Mafia Scum
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Though EA did vote for alvinz at the dawn of day 2 instead of khel, that doesn't say much since alvin just hammered out of nowhere, so nvm the above theory, at least for now. Also EA has been upset with 2xtreme for awhile, so I GUESS that explains his vote but its still seems totally out of nowhere.-
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OK, I'm short on time ATM so I can't post comprehensive reasoning currently, will do later, but I have to say that I agree EA is scum. As far as an EA - Ecto scum team is concerned, I don't know if I can believe that. Ecto (2ex) has been EA's target for scrutiny all game. At this stage either an EA - Korts teams makes sense or an Ecto - Korts team is plausible. I'd like to hear a good deal from Ecto before we even THINK about lynching, though, and I'm not voting until we come to a general concensus, as two votes on the wrong person could potentially put the scum in the hammer position, which would spell game over at MYLO, which is today.-
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That's a valid point, Korts. EA barely acknowledged the wagon on X, who turned up scum. Perhaps, as you suggest, EA meant to dissociate himself with the X wagon by harping on 2ex, knowing that nobody was going to get up in arms against 2ex. That's a good point indeed.Korts wrote:What alvinz says about the Ecto-EA pair is pretty plausible. You say, icemanE, that EA has constantly kept pressure on 2ex, but don't you find it suspicious that EA would try to keep pushing the 2ex case despite everything else? It was obvious that the 2ex wagon wouldn't go anywhere soon.-
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It doesn't, but what it says to me is "Oh shit, X made the wrong claim, time to abandon this sinking ship".EA wrote: So tell me, how does switching from "I think xyzzy is town and don't want his lynch" to "I think xyzzy is scum and I intend to hammer him" solely on the basis of his claim constitute ignoring his claim?
Q1: Keeping an open mind. Q2: You didn't, but since 204 it's pretty much all you've talked about. You've more or less brushed aside the biggest issues of the game in order to get one player not to lurk, when other than 192, 204, and 287 you've more or less met the very definition you yourself posted on lurking, which is your big point against Ecto.EA wrote: How is Ecto-Korts plausible if you agree I'm scum? When did I attack 2ex before post 192?-
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Yes, alvin, I agree. I'll put him at L-1 -- however, I'd sort of like to hear a claim first. If it's as easy to see through as X's there shouldn't be a problem, but it never hurts to be safe.alvinz95 wrote:C'mon people. Erratus is obvious scum. Put him at L-1, heck hammah him before he can make up a bogus claim.
vote: EA-
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Man, its kind of tough to believe there's a nurse in a 12 person game. The town is pretty stacked. Either way, EA is still the clear choice today, after a claim of course. At least he can't claim Nurse now, heh heh.
Also, if the claim is valid, it wasn't too unnecessary - after all, we've got a doc to protect the nurse, and then the nurse can protect the next night - and we play our cards right, that's when we will win.-
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Oh, right. Even nights. Well yeah, the nurse claim sucks then.roflcopter wrote:iceman, even night doc doesn't get to protect anybody tonight.
korts' softclaim just confused the hell out of me though.
I agree about the hinted at claim and kind of wish it didn't happen - we're on our way to a massclaim which sucks for the town, bigtime.
I'm going to think over the nurse claim and look at some previous posts. Right now I'm pretty wary.-
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So according to your definition, rofl, option 1 is the only remaining choice. I'm assuming you were expecting that there wouldn't be a Day 4 just as much as I wasn't expecting it - what do you have to say for yourself today?ockham's razor states that 'all other things being equal, the simplest solution is best.' so i ask you, which of these scenarios makes more sense.
1) i am scum with korts. we bussed xyzzy. at the same time, i laid the groundwork for bussing korts today.
2) ecto is scum, and his theory is bogus.
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