Mini 630: Council of Eville: Game Ovah!

[alvinz95]

Vote: Rage

[alvinz95]

Unvote: forbiddanlight
Vote: Rage

Goatrevolt pretty much said it.

This to me is opportunistic. But anyway, vote stays.

[alvinz95]

Unvote: forbiddanlight
Vote: Rage

Goatrevolt pretty much said it.

This to me is opportunistic. But anyway, vote stays.

Wait a second here. You're accusing StrangerCoug's vote of being opportunistic, but then you keep your random vote on Rage without any explanation. Is that not even more opportunistic?

I was merely stating we are still in the random stage.
Really, I don't see anything that bad in what he said, and he defended it well enough.

[alvinz95]

I was merely stating we are still in the random stage.
Really, I don't see anything that bad in what he said, and he defended it well enough.

Wait a sec, this doesn't fit. Why would we still be in the random phase? You even commented that StrangerCoug's vote was opportunistic, which is real discussion, suggesting that we're out of the random phase. My vote and SC's vote on Rage at that point were both real votes. We were definitely out of the random phase. Also, if you thought we were still in the random phase, why would you say "But anyway, vote stays." Why would you feel the need to point out that you're keeping your random vote on? That doesn't really make sense.

Unvote, Vote alvinz95

Pouncing on something measley is opportunistic,

regardless

of what stage we are in. So I'm guessing that the whole purpose of your vote is that it doesn't make sense? Calm down... Really, you need to lay off a bit during the random stage.

Really, your super eagerness to start lynching gives bad vibes. What did you hope to achieve with your vote? Why did you vote hop from Rage to me? Is my confusing play more scummy? Would you be happy if I was the lynch today? Is your "real" vote used for pointing out scumminess or as to point who you want to lynch?

[alvinz95]

Unvote: Rage
FoS: alvins95

for his hypocrisy, but I don't think what he did warrants a vote yet.

Seriously, are you with Goatrevolt? You follow him whatever he does. You did not note of my "hypocrisy" until Goatrevolt said it. You tagged on to Goatrevolt after he accused rage.

[alvinz95]

EBWOP:

Unvote

[alvinz95]

People seem sad that the random phase has ended.

alvinz:

If it was still the random phase, as you suggest, then why did you feel the need to assert that you were keeping your random vote on Rage? If it was still the random phase, then why were you accusing SC of an opportunistic vote? Wouldn't you be able to classify your attack on SC as pouncing on something measly?

Could you answer those for me, por favor?

NO! Jk.

It was a basic comment, not intended as an "accusation of scumminess". Hence that we were in the RANDOM STAGE.

[alvinz95]

StrangerCoug's post here here reminded me of a tattle'ing lil bother (who might have been actually fishing for a modkill when he thought Rage was quoting his role PM). It was really either tattling or he didn’t trust the mod, but still I felt like, OUR job isn’t really to police others posts, but to interpret them for scumminess, we aren’t the referees - are we?
Anyway, this coupled with him being the first one to point out forbiddanlight had voted mod (circumstantial evidence I know), following Goat blindly-or at the very least voting withput botherng to add anything or even summ up why he was voting- back in post 17 and voting alvinz95 just "for hypocrisy" (really just seems a lil light on reasoning to me)
so in short

unvote:Joonster

Vote: StrangerCoug

because I don’t like people just going w/ the flow, I don’t like people tattle’ing (I had enough growing up), I'd like you to go more into your justifications and reasoning so they can later be assessed, and I don’t like scummy opportunism - it may be a lil early to just accuse someone of following someone around, but your answer to Alvinz was kind of dismissive to his point, possibly because HIS point was only briefly articulated, much like your posts. maybe brevity is just my personal nemesis, but I think you can pursue the same lead as another person without merely parroting back what they said, or summing up someone's points in as few words as possible as you seem to love to do.

A good part of this is fluff. I was concerned about Rage's #24 because I'm a picky son of a bitch, but I voted him

BEFORE

he made that post, and I knew for a fact that he didn't quote his role PM. My concern was if you could mention its contents at all outside of roleclaiming, and the mod said the post was OK. I was not "fishing for a modkill", as you said I was trying to do.

Just because I'm a tattletale does not mean I'm scum, either.

Unvote: Rage
Vote: Skillit

for his weak case and misrepresenting me.

OMGUS much?

Anyway, @goat, I'm done talking dumb random stage moves mkay?

Why go to the trouble of asserting that you're keeping your random vote on, especially on someone who has two legitimate votes on them at this point?

Does this matter?[/b]

[alvinz95]

Skillit is good at this game.

[alvinz95]

FoS: Rage for opportunistic voting, before I forget.

.....
[self explanitory]

I don't really like your defense. Right now, I see you as the most scummy after about 2-3 scummy moves.

Vote: Strangecoug

[alvinz95]

FoS: Rage for opportunistic voting, before I forget.

.....
[self explanitory]

I don't really like your defense. Right now, I see you as the most scummy after about 2-3 scummy moves.

Vote: Strangecoug

When I FoS somebody for opportunistic voting, you do

NOT

make another opportunistic vote the post after I call it out.

Unvote: Skillit
Vote: alvinz95

I lol'ed.

But this is insanely scummy and my vote is not opportunistic because I actually have a basis.

1. OMGUS?
2. Bad defense
3. Hypocritical in opportunistic voting
4. Lack of consistency (you only FOS rage)

[alvinz95]

I'm not, because discussing what happens in the random stage is not dumb, and your complete dismissal of my questions directed at you really is not pro-town at all. If you think posts in the random stage are dumb and should just be ignored then I suggest you look at Mini 604. Dcorbe was correctly called out as scum for his very first post of the game. The way you dismiss my arguments or simply brush over them without suitably addressing my concerns doesn't give me good vibes.

1. I haven't dismissed any of your questions.
2. Did I say all moves in the random are dumb?
3. Detracts from real discussion such as Strangecoug, which you don't attack viciously like Rage and mine.

It absolutely does matter. I think you've been contradictory. You claim you're keeping your vote on Rage, when he has a real wagon on him with non-random phase votes. Then when I ask you about it, you claim it was just a random vote. I've never seen anyone say "Vote Stands" when talking about a random vote unless they're actually turning it into a serious vote.

Its a matter of opinion for god sake. You think it was a real wagon, I thought it was a fake wagon/random. And that doesn't have anything to do with contradictory (me having the "trouble" to say vote stays).

Dude, StrangerCoug, people jumping on a bandwagon is not a scummy action by itself. You can't just vote everyone who jumps on your bandwagon. If someone is voting you for poor reasons, by all means, point it out, but jumping on every single player who votes you is not productive at all.

I'm not a fan of Coug's play, but he's been lynched as town in both of the other games I've played with him for similar type stuff, so I want to compare his posting in this game with his posting in those games before making a decision here.

I've seen this countless times done by scum to their partners. Seems like you're just giving him advice and lecturing him rather than attacking him for scummy like you've done to Rage and me which is not consistent and rather contradictory. You are semi-supporting him by using a meta. I have been in a few games with him and he has NOT acted like this. What makes this even more convincing to me is how you barely even bothered to attack him.

FoS: Goatrevolt

[alvinz95]

100% Contradictory. You thought it was a fake wagon, yet you accused SC of having an opportunistic vote. If it's a fake/random wagon (which it is very obvious that wagon was not fake or random) then how was SC's vote opportunistic? Your behavior is completely contradictory. Your words are saying your "vote stays" and accusation of SC were random and meant nothing, but your actions only make sense in the context of that post being serious.

You're lingering on the facts that I have simply downplayed before. I've already said that calling it opportunistic wasn't a "accusation of scumminess" as it was a comment. And I don't get what you're goal in this attack is, seriously. We're accomplishing nothing lingering on random stage moves.

You think I'm scummy because I didn't attack StrangerCoug enough to your liking? Absurd. I agree with you that I don't like his play thus far, but I'm not convinced on his case yet for the meta reasons I brought up. Also, you're pairing me as a scum buddy to StrangerCoug when we don't even know if he's scum yet. Getting a little ahead of yourself here?

Way to blow my words out of proportion. You're scummy because,
1. You weren't consistent at all in scumhunting as you viciously attacked one single move then VOTED with both me and Rage, rather you just noted to Strangecoug that is was scummy and didn't even bother to FOS.
2. It seems like you are more lecturing and giving Strangecoug advice rather than pointing out scumminess.

Basically, you're OMGUSing me because I didn't attack StrangerCoug as hard as I attacked you. Until we see players alignments, that's a pretty poor argument.

An OMGUS is a "oh my god you suck" which cedes a VOTE and the basis is usually just because he/she voted him, and this situation doesn't fit that. And so you're saying, we can't investigate into partners until he/she's role is revealed? Anyway, I haven't even voted you.

[alvinz95]

Seriously?

That's the entire point. You're just sitting there downplaying anything I say against you as unimportant or a distraction rather than addressing the issues.

Of course I'm lingering on these issues. You're downplaying them, rather than addressing them. Do you honestly think you can get out of a bandwagon by just saying that your attacker's points are dumb, unimportant or a distraction and call it a day? Yikes...

I miss used the meaning of downplay as resolve lol, mistake on my part. Bad vocab.

My goal is pretty obvious. I don't like your defense period, and I'm pursuing you because I think you're scummy.

Also, I don't buy the "comment" rather than accusation of scumminess. Saying someone's vote is opportunistic implies that it was scummy, because opportunistic votes have a connotation of being something scummy. Then you confirmed your vote on a player being legitimately wagoned after saying that the person voting for him was opportunistic.

I want everyone to answer these questions. Do you think alvinz's comment that StrangerCoug's vote was opportunistic and then comment that he's confirming his vote on rage to be odd? Do you buy his explanation that it was just a meaningless post and not anything serious?

I'll say it again. I don't like you downplaying everything I say simply because your post happened during the random phase. Your post happening during the random phase doesn't mean that it automatically doesn't count and should be ignored. There was real discussion happening during that period, and your post contained real discussion, that you're now trying to play off as simply useless banter (which I don't buy).

*slaps head*
Of course, if you don't buy anything in this game, you'll get no where. This whole argument is based on you thinking it was serious, when it really wasn't to me.

Again, this is really bad logic. I've been perfectly consistent in scum hunting. I'm going after things that I find scummy. Just because I'm not scum hunting what you want me to scum hunt doesn't make me contradictory at all.

Basically, I'll vote who I think is scum. I'll FoS someone when I feel they deserve it. My votes and FoS's have nothing to do with what you perceive as scummy.

Think about this for a second. If I were to apply the same logic you're using then I should find you scummy because you're not voting yourself. I think you're scummy, therefore you're being inconsistent in not also finding yourself scummy and voting yourself.

Ah, yes. I'm making the coaching scum tell. Congrats, you caught me. I knew I should have attacked StrangerCoug because alvinz thinks he's scummy, therefore I have to as well...

Wait, so you're saying OMGUSing most people on the wagon, using a cruddy defense, hypocritical in opportunistic voting, and lack of consistency isn't as scumming as saying "Who is the name of scum?" or "Opporunistic much?"? I'm not saying who you should attack, but still, thats not consistent. You've agreed on AT LEAST one of those points.
Votes and fos have nothing to do with scumminess? What DO you base your suspicions on then?

I have a looser view of OMGUS. I consider you pushing poor reasons for finding me suspicious (regardless of whether you vote or not) at the same time that I'm pushing a case on you to be OMGUS.

You can search for partners, sure. But calling me out as scummy because I'm not attacking the same person you think is scummy is really dumb, especially when we have no clue if that person is scum yet or not. If he gets lynched and is scum, and you think my actions fit as a scum buddy, then by all means go for me tomorrow. Pushing me today for those reasons is putting the cart before the horse.

Fine by me.

I'm not pushing your lynch anyway, I'd rather go with Strangecoug.

[alvinz95]

*slaps head*
Of course, if you don't buy anything in this game, you'll get no where. This whole argument is based on you thinking it was serious, when it really wasn't to me.

So because I don't buy your explanation, that means I don't buy anything in this game? Misrep. Again, you're downplaying my case against you by suggesting that if I "don't buy your defense, then I won't buy anything."

Basically, you're correct. The entire argument comes down to the fact that I think your post was serious, and thus contradictory, and you're suggesting that it was a meaningless post. Looking at that post in context, it doesn't seem meaningless at all for reasons I've brought up over and over again.

Wait, so you're saying OMGUSing most people on the wagon, using a cruddy defense, hypocritical in opportunistic voting, and lack of consistency isn't as scumming as saying "Who is the name of scum?" or "Opporunistic much?"? I'm not saying who you should attack, but still, thats not consistent. You've agreed on AT LEAST one of those points.
Votes and fos have nothing to do with scumminess? What DO you base your suspicions on then?

You're completely missing the point. You're saying I'm inconsistent based on who you think is scum. You're saying that my scum list doesn't match up with your scum list and thus that makes me inconsistent, which makes absolutely no sense.

Again, apply that logic the other way. You're inconsistent for not voting for yourself because I think you're scum.

You're measuring scumminess in almost a bureaucratic way. StrangerCoug has committed 4 scum tells, and you have committed 1 scum tell thus he's scum and you are not. My votes are entirely based on who I think is scummy, however I don't measure scumminess strictly on a "who has committed the most scum tells" level. There are other factors in play as well.

Very well.
Ok, then you're scumminess system is really fucked up. Thats all i have to say.

[alvinz95]

Guess I lied. This is about the millionth time my saturday plans have been cancelled. Allow me to mope for a few hours and I'll return to check cases.

Lynch all liars.

FoS: Goatrevolt

because I feel she did not lie. She is not psychic, and I don't know what her plans were or what cancelled them, but this is not enough reason for a policy lynch.

Opportunistic to attempt to distance from your partner?

[alvinz95]

SC, I'd probably vote you for terminal ridiculousness if I hadn't seen you do the same thing before in an ongoing. However, given my QUICK reread (i.e not my usual 2 hour in depth summary and thought analysis of doom), I actually have to say I finally agree with the alvinz case.

vote alvinz

. I can't add much, but he seems to be panicking and trying to make too little of your points against him. SC is of note but that same ongoing gives me a feeling he just sucks as town (no offense). Also of note is it seems skillit might be attempting to cover for alvinz, but that was just a quick impression.

Before I get lynched, here's what I'm going to say.

Take note that it's scum-riddled wagon, StrangeCoug's strange interactions with Goat, Goats persistence on a random vote move. Right now I'm very sure the scum are StrangeCoug and Goatrevolt. StrangeCoug's FoS in attempt to distance sealed the deal and a witty defence closed it completely. Read through the arguments of Goat and realize he's only really attacking one post, as opposed to my argument against StrangeCoug's numerous scummy moves from OMGUSing most of the people that were voting him, his bad defense against skillit, interactions with Goat, and tagging along Goat. Realize how weak of a case there is on me tomorrow (A "controversial" random stage move). Good luck town, but anyway I claim

Council Member

. Which is most likely an auto-lynch. I'm confident that the town will lynch StrangeCoug or Goat tomorrow.

[alvinz95]

How is claiming what is essentially vanilla townie a lame claim?

Because I've both done it, and I'm used to claims being more dramatic

Why is this wagon not scummy, but the last one was? Your reasons against alvinz could also be applied to coug, so what is the distinction?

It's a well explained wagon. A lot better than the Coug one was. It also didn't spring up quite as quickly. There's more discussion than "oooh...vote SC".

Ok, I don't get why people can't see what Coug did, rather than one dumb post

[alvinz95]

Ok, I don't get why people can't see what Coug did, rather than one dumb post

I see what Coug did. I'm just not convinced it means he's scum.

Its actually hypocritical for you as because in the beginning you said you weren't going for a lynch with what I did, and now you still linger on that point, but it seems you ARE going for a lynch.

This clearly states that Goat is with Coug.

[alvinz95]

I still strongly encourage a StrangeCoug lynch. His play has been blindingly scummy STILL.

[alvinz95]

Nothing more, vote stands. Lynch, me, lynch scum tomorrow.

[alvinz95]

Nothing more, vote stands. Lynch, me, lynch scum tomorrow.

That's so wrong. This isn't an either/or situation. Both you and SC could be town. If we lynch you and you are town, then lynching SC based solely on your word would be really dumb. What if you're both town? Then we're in deep trouble.

Why is it so wrong? Of course he could be town. What if he isn't? Why can't we deduce from day 1?

[alvinz95]

umm...strike 3? Alv why do you want us to lynch you so bad? now its like well, we lynch him and either get scum or we get rid of an anti town townie. you are either scum or your trying to help the scum - but does it matter anymore? im was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt here, but now there is no doubt. saying lynch me is

almost

straight up daring us to ice you. desperate scum gambit or townie who dosent care are the choices we have now, acting like that really makes my decision for me

vote alvinz95

- the thing is, acting like this wont make sc or even goat look bad if your town, because your demanding to be lynched and refusing to answer simple questions. Im just asking you to explain why you are so reaady to end the day and all i get is "no more"?? there is no devils advocating that. this looks like a despeate last ditch attempt to get out of answering my very simple question. That makes me think you are almost certainly scum, or very anti-town town, and if you

are

town play like this will only distract us from chasing scum if you stay around.

What is this "simple" question? This is incredibly hypocritical because you're saying that its bad for me to ask to be lynched, so you vote me.

[alvinz95]

I like GhostWriter's case. I do not like how he has given up scumhunting and is attempting to shift blame toward Goatrevolt and me. Granted, I do not want to give the wrong impression that I'm needlessly clinging to Goatrevolt when all I'm doing is agreeing with him, but other than that I fail to see how Goatrevolt and I are connected, nor do I believe the "if X is town, then Y is scum" in this context.

Confirm vote: alvinz95

Stop coming up with lame excuses as to why I should die.

Lame excuses? That was kind of late.... I have said NOTHING ABOUT EXCUSES WHY YOU SHOULD DIE THE PAST 5 POST WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN, STOP ATTEMPTING TO MAKE YOUR CASE SEEM BAD. Again i find this as really bad reasoning to give a CONFIRM vote.

Lets see my case shall we?

1. OMGUS? (the WHOLE wagon)
2. Bad defense
3. Hypocritical in opportunistic voting
4. Lack of consistency (you only FOS rage)

Do those look like EXCUSES??????? They are HARD REASONING

What is my case?

1. random stage
2. asking for a lynch
Seriously can someone list the reasons for my case?

[alvinz95]

ya i know that came out kinda angry-ish but i'm not, i'm just frustrated.

[alvinz95]

Analysis post:

alvinz

: I really hate what I see here. There's obvious deflection to SC, attempts to dismiss valid questions rather than answer them, strawmans some of goat's arguments. This is not good. I'm probably going to vote him when I've fully finished my analysis (I don't want to tunnel and completely miss someone being scummier).

GoatRevolt

: He is a little dismissive of SC (well guess what, so am I), but so far he seems to be genuinely interested in finding scum. He quizzed Rage and got a somewhat satisfactory answer, moved to alvinz who started very evasive and still hasn't completely answered everything I don't think. Honestly, I lean heavy town here. The problem is Goat is pretty good at seeming town, so I'll definitely be doing my best to keep a running summary of him in my notes and see if I pick up anything weird.

More to come tonight or tomorrow .

1. I didn't dismiss I asked why it was important, then I answerd.
2. Do a StrangeCoug
3. Heavily favored Goat.

[alvinz95]

Ok, just read all 9 pages and I fail to see why people haven't come to their senses on SC yet. Lots of tattleing along (more than once), very opportunistic, and extreme panic-omgus. Scummy as hell.

I think alvinz is right, SC today

Vote:Stranger Coug

Exactly what I was trying to clarify.

I will be V/LA from tomorrow to August 13th which is pretty long. I would like to stay in this game, but replace me if you must. Will be posting in every game.

[alvinz95]

managed to catch some internet access.

I sense goat/strange/forbidden team if theres 3 scum.

Jshark, I don't know why you thought I should answer your vote. You think I'm scummy -- end of story. I don't think I need to answer.
And why you say why do they brush off my actions? Why do they brush off strangecoug's actions?

[alvinz95]

im here-kinda. im just still stuck in tacoma - i live on the other side of state. might get home-have to use psp til i get access to a comp. it seems like it was just asserted that i was scum. maybe because i disliked alvs lil gambit? anything specific for me to address?im not sure what to do to prove im not scum, but i can still help-even if in not listened to for a few days

I can see where the Rage case is going but I'm still sold on StrangeCoug. I think he's trying to "buss" me.

WOAH I WAS JUST IN TACOMA! I'm vacationing in Seattle/Vancouver/Victoria area. Now I'm in victoria.

[alvinz95]

Checking in.... don't have time. Was just on cruise for a week. I will officially be back in 2-4 days.

[alvinz95]

Currently re-reading....

I'm pissed how FL and SC got lynch happy on Rage.

Still going with StrangeCoug ATM

Vote: StrangeCoug

[alvinz95]

checkingin.

[alvinz95]

What all is forbiddanlight guilty of? OMGUS, self-voting, straw man arguments,

argumenta ad hominem

, blaming others for her actions... Yeah. I'm ready to get rid of her.

Confirm vote: forbiddanlight

I see a forbiddanlight and StrangeCoug team, or a StrangeCoug/Goat, or a Goat/FL.

More on the FL/SC.

I think I'll deduce what happens when FL dies.

unvote, Vote: FL

[alvinz95]

What all is forbiddanlight guilty of? OMGUS, self-voting, straw man arguments, argumenta ad hominem, blaming others for her actions... Yeah. I'm ready to get rid of her.

I love how at least 2 of those can apply to you .

Agreed.

So much casual banter between you and SC.

[alvinz95]

Just had an unexpected visit to Indiana. Possible V/LA next 2 days. But while I'm here I decided to reread. What I got:

1. Forbidden light is attacking everyone attacking him just like SC.
2. FL and SC are buddies, or otherwise FL/Goat or SC/Goat.
3. Goat is still scummy
4. FL deflects arguments and tries to pry off the attentionon him.

Alright, here are some quick and dirty impressions of those on the Rage wagon:

Those I find unscummy, and likely town:

Goatrevolt
Again, nothing to stick on him. He's well reasoned, etc. Course, he tends to be such, as scum and town. It's going to be hard to pin anything on him if he's scum, but I actually do feel he's trying to help the town. (Course, I might be biased).

Megatheory
Honestly, I got nothing on him. He feels protown all the way. I hope he delivers his second look at me soon. His analyses feel sound basically. Also, his case on skillit is most assuredly superior to mine. (Course, mine is posting style and amount of fluff, which most people fine ironic)

StrangerCoug
His performance today seems to me to honestly be finding scum in his own way. It feels townie, if that's really good to go on. I honestly see him as town

Regardless of SC's attack on him at the beginning of day, FL still plants him at very townly.
Overall calls Goat neutral by saying he's scummy but townly. Wishy-washy, trying not to cause much attention on him.

I'm on page 11. I will say on reread that forbiddan is a lot more scummy than I had originally thought. I've found this reread to be extremely helpful, as it gives a completely fresh look at the entire thread without any preconceived biases. Thus far my current scum picks are forbiddan and Ghostwriter. Ghostwriter doesn't have many posts at this point, but I find 174 to be the epitome of scummitude if anyone wants to take a look at it and maybe see what I see.

Goat suddenly decides that forbiddan is more scummy, and plants her at his top spot, but decides not to vote. Blending in but not causing much.

That's it, forbiddanlight, I have ceased to understand you anymore.

Sounds like scumtalk.

Wait, you thought you could understand me? Ah, what a laugh. Well, that's the problem with my playstyle. Half the time my apparent randomness works well in my favor. The other half...well, this is the result.

Casual reply like 2 buddies talking, like saying "sorry I failed you"

What all is forbiddanlight guilty of? OMGUS, self-voting, straw man arguments,

argumenta ad hominem

, blaming others for her actions... Yeah. I'm ready to get rid of her.

Confirm vote: forbiddanlight

"Yeah, I'm ready to get rid of her." The wording is just awkward and sounds like a buddy saying, yeah i'm just going to kill my other buddy. maybe its just my mental paradigm, but it sounds very suspicious.[/dice]

[alvinz95]

I'm on page 11. I will say on reread that forbiddan is a lot more scummy than I had originally thought. I've found this reread to be extremely helpful, as it gives a completely fresh look at the entire thread without any preconceived biases. Thus far my current scum picks are forbiddan and Ghostwriter. Ghostwriter doesn't have many posts at this point, but I find 174 to be the epitome of scummitude if anyone wants to take a look at it and maybe see what I see.

Goat suddenly decides that forbiddan is more scummy, and plants her at his top spot, but decides not to vote. Blending in but not causing much.

Thanks for ripping that post completely out of the context of the situation and using it to plant suspicion on me. This is such a huge stretch right here. First of all, I'm not in the habit of blindly voting people after only reading through half the thread. Second of all, I did vote for Forbiddan immediately after I finished my read, which I believe was either my next post or the one right after it and happened in the same night.

Going through and pulling out a few random posts out of context and using it to support theories of who is scum is not scumhunting. You also happened to miss the part where Forbiddan says I'm scum now after I made a case on her. I can already guess your response though, which is that earlier on she was calling me, her scum buddy, town and then now she's trying to distance. There, I've even provided it for you.

I quoted the entire post. Not ripped out of context. I must admit, that you'vebeen less suspicious as compared to SC and FL, but I still have to consider it because of your interactions with SC. They were not random posts, as I was looking for evidence to support my theory, which was hunting down who is scum with SC. And yes you are exactly right on distancing.

[alvinz95]

I must admit, that you'vebeen less suspicious as compared to SC and FL, but I still have to consider it because of your interactions with SC. They were not random posts, as I was looking for evidence to support my theory, which was hunting down who is scum with SC.

Tunnel vision again, eh?

My tunnel vision is right.

[alvinz95]

I am not trying to subvert the lynch on FL. Almost everyone here with the exception of FL have agreed that she is today's lynch. It is not pro-town to keep this lynchacious player around for another day. Plus, she

has

been scummy.
What I am trying to do is tell you guys who I else I suspect. I usually wouldn't do this given the circumstances of this game (it tells scum who to not NK), but in order for everyone to get a read on me, it's best for me to talk as much as possible.

Overall, GoatRevolt has been acting scummy with his votes.

While Goat and FL have been connected to an extreme extent, that doesn't mean anything until FL is lynched. Anyway, I will bring up these connections if FL turns scum. And,

If

FL is scum, I will be that more confidant with Goat, but if FL is town, I will probably still be suspicious of Goat.

ACK. Sorry for the long introduction.
here we go:

16: GR votes for Rage based on the "what's the name of scum?" Gr attacks him for trying to look townie.

These reasons seem really forced to me. It seems an oportunistic vote to add a second vote on Rage. Also note SC adding a third vote immediately after

.

29: GR switches to alvinz because alvinz called SC's vote opportunistic while keeping his vote on Rage. It makes perfect sense to me why SC did this, but GR insists what he is doing is hypocritical and continues attacking him for a bunch of posts.

This whole case on Alvinz is utterly ridiculous. It

was

still the random voting stage. In fact, the thing that ended the random voting stage imo was this bandwagon on alvinz.
Cerb put it best on post 146.

The case on Alvinz is identical to the case on SC, yet people are excusing SC for being erratic and not seeing if the same can be applied to alvinz.

also on 36, GR misrepresents alvinz by saying things like, "
Who said I was super eager to start lynching? " when alvinz never mentioned GR being eager to start lynching.

Then there's the rage wagon, which had some extremely poor reasoning. What's with all these poor bandwagons? Anyway, when rage asks for more votes, GR falls for it AGAIN.
GR fails to provide good enough reasoning to put someone at L-2 this late in the game in his post 303.

And there's a general feeling of scumminess coming from GR I can't explain. I wrote in my notes "GR is scum" several pages ago during my read through.

And again, a lot of this theory has to do with GR totally buddying up with FL. I mean, if FL is scum, I have a whooooole bunch of evidence to show.

Anyway, regardless of FL's alignment, GR's post on 381 says that FL's hammer actually makes him pro-town. HOLY BATMAN!!! THIS IS JUST... ridiculous. How can you completely dismiss a quick lynch like that? Uh, not pro-town at all.

So yeah, overall, I'm not liking any of GR's votes. I think he's been scummy.

About defending myself: I have other games I need to attend to before I go on my trip, and I think that it might be just better for everyone if I defend myself (my predecessor) next game day? Is that okay with everyone? Or is it a huuuuge pressing concern I defend GR's attacks on my predecessor?

I'd like to say DUH (not against you sarcasticallly, but i was so frustrated that no one understood me but someone does!)

EBWOP: Not pro town to keep me alive. Isn't is not pro town to lynch town players, no matter how badly they play?

This makes no sense. You have a slim chance of being town in my eyes. NO one knows if you are town. If you play bad and you come out town, then oh well, sucks for us, the town. Its not scummy to lynch people because they are scummy dummy (lol).

[alvinz95]

Sorry guys, but I'm just not seeing goat-scum right now. My earlier expressed opinions of his day 1 play stand. I don't like his reliance on meta, and the end of yesterday's alvinz wagon makes my skin crawl, but he seems to genuinely want to gain information for the town. I noticed that goat doesn't respond to posts that answer him, presumably unless he disagrees, but if that assumption is correct there is nothing anti-town about this behavior. The shifts in opinion seem honest to me, and they coincide with things like rereads that explain the sudden changes satisfactorily. I'm not going to clear him, but I just don't see him being very scummy.

I'd like to point out (again?) that meta analysis loses its already limited usefulness when the subject demonstrates an awareness of the trends indicated.

Cerberus has spent much of the game breaking down poor cases (which is good) but he doesn't seem to have done much scumhunting since early day 1. Couple this with his habit of disappearing whenever no one is specifically addressing him and it looks like we have someone who doesn't particularly want to do any analysis himself. I don't think his agreement with several wagons was scummy, but I do wish he'd at least note what part of each person's case he agrees with. We need a significant amount of participation from cerb tomorrow, or I predict a rapid rise on my scumlist.

alvinz:

Alvinz: are you back from your V/LA?

Yes.

1. What conclusion should we draw from this?

SC is scum with FL and also possibly with Goat. Any combination of the 3.

That's it, forbiddanlight, I have ceased to understand you anymore.

Sounds like scumtalk.

Explain, because I really don't see how this is so. forbiddanlight is VERY hard to follow.

It is as if he is a partner and is reprimanding his partner. I dunno its prob my mental pardigm, okeyday.

Ok, so, if I flip town, what will your theories be then?

The obvious, Goat and SC are officially scum. Yes this is severe tunnel vision.

and the ubiquitous

Do you have any more support for your arguments that you can share with us?

Overall, FL, Goat, and SC got along great Day 1, then suddenly on Day 2, SC attacks FL as if it was magically planned. Goat and SC had all sorts of interactions on my wagon.

If there are any open questions to alvinz that I've missed, please point them out.

[/b]

[alvinz95]

Wait, I thought you were voting me? When did you switch? I guess I missed something?

Here is my unvote for you. I thought I already had a vote out on alvinz95, but apparently not until now.

However, I still think you're scum, and my vote would be on you if this were deadline, but I've pretty much exhausted your case. I don't see getting anything more out of you anytime soon. alvinz95, on the other hand, seems hell-bent on connecting the two of us and goat together the cheapest way he can do so.

*sigh* this just proves more that you are partner with FL. THis is about the 2nd time you confirmed voted me. You are backing away from the wagon because,

FORBIDDENLIGHT IS YOUR FREAKIN' PARTNER!

Oh, yeah, nevermind. You said that you think he is scum still which really makes me think that you aren't huh?

[alvinz95]

*sigh* this just proves more that you are partner with FL. THis is about the 2nd time you confirmed voted me. You are backing away from the wagon because,

FORBIDDENLIGHT IS YOUR FREAKIN' PARTNER!

Oh, yeah, nevermind. You said that you think he is scum still which really makes me think that you aren't huh?

I'm not unvoting you until you snap out of your tunnel vision. The more you try to frame me, the more you bankrupt your credibility, so stop it.

Very well I will continue my tunnel vision. When I claim I go full out scumhunting with no fear in my actions. Go with my gut. Thats why I have tunnel vision.

[alvinz95]

There are much better ways to play Mafia than with your gut. Perhaps you should look into them.

I have revealed my role. I can scumhunt how I like to scumhunt. I am going full out on you, and FL. Your play has been horrendously scummy and continues still, so I'm pondering on whether or not to vote you.

[alvinz95]

Very well I will continue my tunnel vision. When I claim I go full out scumhunting with no fear in my actions. Go with my gut. Thats why I have tunnel vision.

Nyeh, I'm a gut player myself, but I've also found most of the time you can justify your gut with evidence. Now, I have a unique perspective since I know my alignment, and it's not what everyone thinks it is. I know your house of cards will fall when I flip. The problem is, even if I'm town you say that SC and Goat are scum. So, what I'm wondering is what evidence do you have against these that DOESN'T directly tie to me?

There is equally strong evidence (perhaps stronger) of scum buddying. Your posts of "your house of cards will fall" is chipping at me. Its annoying.

[alvinz95]

There is equally strong evidence (perhaps stronger) of scum buddying. Your posts of "your house of cards will fall" is chipping at me. Its annoying.

Scum buddying? Like, in what way, like SC and Goat buddying to me? Or SC and goat buddying each other? And sorry if the truth hurts. I can't change my alignment.

Goat/SC, HAVEN'T YOU SEEN MY WHOLE ARGUMENT YET? (not angry)

[alvinz95]

There is equally strong evidence (perhaps stronger) of scum buddying.

Learn the damn difference between buddying and distancing please.

Your posts of "your house of cards will fall" is chipping at me. Its annoying.

The fact of the matter is that's it's going to.

Buddying = distancing. Buddying is making it seem like your buddies, like distancing. =)

Nice plan. Get FL to chip away at me, then vote you, then everyone will hate me then kill me. Not going to work.

[alvinz95]

Fair enough. Veerus, return your vote to me. I'm taking your placeholder off.
Not my first choice, but

Unvote, vote Alvinz

This further bolsters my case as you technically asked SC your partner that you were going to vote me, and he agrees so you vote me.

[alvinz95]

It doesn't by much. She's still a decent-sized blip, but alvinz95 is making an even bigger "ping" on my scumdar. Actually, its siren is going off. I will have no hurt feelings if forbiddanlight is the lynch; I'm just trying to keep myself open-minded (unlike alvinz95, who already thinks he knows the scum trio when we haven't killed scum yet).

By this do you believe that there are 3 scum, or do you KNOW that there are 3 scum?

Sthar: I know its risky business not klling StrangeCoug first, but I'm afraid NO ONE will ever follow me onto the SC case, so to get to the point where they can, it would be better to lynch FL.

[alvinz95]

StrangeCoug is scum. I know.

[alvinz95]

StrangeCoug is scum. I know.

How?

Cause I can think. So you admit you're scum?

[alvinz95]

1. Rolefishing = bad
2. So you admit you're scum any who? I'll sacrifice myself for you to die.
3. No, not a mislynch for sure
4. Yes and no. Its a decent case but I'm lazy.

So actually none of them work. Pick one that suits yourself.

[alvinz95]

1. How who'd you know? You are making assumptions about my role which is, ROLEFISHING. If you think its a slip, why are you STILL voting me?
2. You're scum, nuff' said
3. I have tunnel vision which is deadly accurate.
4. Makes you're job easier sure enough.

What I make out of you response is that you are really scum. You rolefished, then believe that I am the cop, but refutes that you are rolefishing, then still have the will to lynch me. Not protown. Anyway in 591, I had tunnelvision on Xtoxm. I had a similar attitude to that game as to this game.

[alvinz95]

I've stated that you're scum the whole game. Quite odd for you to say "Woah!" when I say "I know". I don't get the boy crying wolf. I am vanilla, and if I'm scum, why would I still be focused on you?

[alvinz95]

Oh well, fun game is what I would say. I have fun when I have severe tunnel vision, then I'm right. Its happened about 3/4 of the games I've played in. Whenever I'm the sole person to attack someone, I'm miraculously right. All completed: (Erratus Apathos, Xtoxm, Xyzzy).

[alvinz95]

I'm kind of torn right now. I think BaB is more likely to be scum than Forbiddan, who would be in second place. The issue is that I think it may simply be better for us to lynch Forbiddan anyway because it would bring some closure to this case.

I think Alvinz is town. I'm 50/50 on StrangerCoug.

I think you're torn because your scum buddy just got OWNED by me. Basically more wishy-washy behavior between you and SC.

I read StrangerCoug's actions as over excited when he assumed I was the cop, which would be scum like, and his lamer reasoning on how I was scum because of that, later stating that the slip-up meant that I was scum, not cop. (confusing ain't it?)

[alvinz95]

Well fuck all of you then.

Vote for...

Just kidding.

MOD THAT IS NOT A VOTE!

Anyway, moving along, have fun losing town. Fucking up the doctor's advantage was the only thing you accomplished today. I hope you all die in a fire of false accusation

Go fuck yourselves. I'm done with this shit.

Those words hurt me. Boo.

Well anyway, those words really appealed to my emotions. If you aren't scum, I'm REALLY, REALLY sure that Goatrevolt and Strangercoug are scum.

[alvinz95]

I'm sorry but that post seemed like a desperate attempt to pull more votes off or just a rant in disgust on how you died.

[alvinz95]

Well anyway, those words really appealed to my emotions. If you aren't scum, I'm REALLY, REALLY sure that Goatrevolt and Strangercoug are scum.

If Forbiddan is scum, then I'm her scum buddy. If she's town, then I'm scum.

Why exactly aren't you voting for me then? Clearly I'm scum in every possible scenario you have.

you took it way to logically. I see this as a cheap slapback to direct attention off FL.

StrangerCoug is scum in every possibility, but I'm not voting him, why? Because no one will believe me. Same goes to you. Forbiddenlight is a viable candidate for a lynch, and part of my thoughts on scum, so why not try, as it will boost my case.

There is a possibility that there are 3 scum, so you could be scum if she's scum still. If there are 2 and she's town, then you are StrangeCoug's partner.

(of course these are not exact percents based entirely on statistics, so don't say, omg all have the same chance of being scum, so why are you so sure on StrangeCoug?)

Current Options w/ FL alive: StrangeCoug/FL/Goat, StrangeCoug/FL, StrangeCoug/Goat, Goat/FL.

If FL comes out town then it will stand as this: StrangeCoug/Goat. Which means that I'm REALLY REALLY sure that StrangeCoug and Goat are scum, as its the only option.

Truly, you're unvote again proves that you can still be partners with Forbiddenlight, or you know she's town, so you're getting off at the last second. Really, what changed your mind that Forbiddenlight is not scum?

[alvinz95]

Okay, to kickstart my devotion to this game, I'm putting together a PBPA of alvinz. It should be fun to read.. that is, if you aren't alvinz.

This should be interesting. I don't care if I die. I just want the game to end to prove that I was right, or just kill StrangerCoug, Goat

[alvinz95]

Goat, you're just too good at being mafia that I see right through it. I'm not going to bother reading walls of text. FL/SC/Goat any of the possibilities. If i'm wrong? Screw it.

[alvinz95]

Well, I could definitely get behind a BaB lynch. Though I'd like an alvinz one as well.

Unvote, vote BaB

That's L-3.

That is just plain MORONIC because you're scum. Way to completely blow your cover and help my case =). Goat, stop trying to attack random people to get attention off forbiddanlight, it just makes me think harder and more assertive that you are scum with StrangerCoug. Your case against Sthar failed to pull votes off, so now you attack BaB. Also, I'm leaning towards trio of scum of the obvious.

[alvinz95]

That is just plain MORONIC because you're scum. Way to completely blow your cover and help my case =). Goat, stop trying to attack random people to get attention off forbiddanlight, it just makes me think harder and more assertive that you are scum with StrangerCoug. Your case against Sthar failed to pull votes off, so now you attack BaB. Also, I'm leaning towards trio of scum of the obvious.

After the game, I will look back at this statement, quote it. Then I will look back at the mod telling you how I flipped. Quote that. I will then very snidely laugh at your foolish tunnel vision and refusal to substantiate a case that DOESN'T depend on me being scum.

Appeal to Emotion.

[alvinz95]

Have you also noticed I honestly don't care what you call what I say? Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar kid. And may I ask what you call your non cases?

I didn't really ask you if you cared. Still Appealing to Emotion and just disregarding it rather than defending. And NO you don't have to say if you care or not.

[alvinz95]

Interesting. This is all old though. Why not bash on my tunnel vision? This is all before my claim then my bad attitude-ness. What I find very scummy of you, is that you aren't at all using any information from "Rage 1.0" rather saying you are someone else, which leads me to wonder if you are scum. You seem to be pretending to be townie (or being scum) very hard.

Anyway, I'm not replying cause I don't care if I die.

[alvinz95]

1. Sorry, not to me.
2. I know. Exactly my point.
3. Theres a difference from being a townie and pretending to be a townie. But read "very hard" which clarifies the difference.
4. So what a vote.

I've already told you I wasn't going to respond. Its no surprise now.

[alvinz95]

I'm not protown, but I'm town. I've essentially given up, and my only task is to annoy the town to death by presenting a great case, then say "TOLD YA SO!" at the end, when we lose. (at this rate we're getting nowhere with Goatrevolts new cases pulling attention away from Forbiddenlight, and the distracting Rage) So SC, I did not bother to read wall of text, and skipped that, and its not a crime to saying why he didn't attack my tunnel vision. I'm oblivious cause I'm a neutral.

[alvinz95]

And anyway to the mod, I'm having a blast in this game, and is really fun so don't modkill me.

[alvinz95]

Fine by me. =)

[alvinz95]

I now expect Goatrevolt to magically say the BaB wagon is wack and vote me. Expected scum play. See? I know your plans. Forbiddanlight is now pretty clear she's scum. I'm a bit more fuzzy on Goat, until FL dies. Well it seems I'm the expected lynch. Just remember what I said, and hopefully you'll apply it.

[alvinz95]

Actually I am helping the town. I'm giving them what I know, but they aren't using it. Pity.

[alvinz95]

you are not helping anything. Even if you are "giving us what we want to know" your giving it to us in a way we cannot use it. you are both attempting to be, and taking delight in being, as unhelpful and contrary to the spirit of this game as you can imagine. pity
once again you are spitting in our faces. you think that playing this way will in some way be helpful? if everyone in this game played like you town would never win. one of you have nutered us enough. this is the second time you have shown blatent disregard for helping out the town and done so with as poor sportsmanship as you can muster.

vote alvinz95

My 'bad sportsmanship' attitude, etc is all for vengeance on the stupidity of the beginning of the game. My main goal in this game is to test my natural scumhunting skills without analyzing walls of text. Mostly, the "annoy you guys at the end" was merely a joke to bug ya'll . I'm quite surprised that you, Skillit, have even fallen victim to scums redirecting of attention of their mate, Forbiddenlight. Anyway, this lynch is mostly because I'm annoying you. Anyone who wants to lynch town is scummy.

The tide is turning in favor of an alvinz lynch. What do you expect of me if I somehow live through this day?

Really, you must be happy your mates got you through this. This is like 'HAHA! YOU GUYS DIDN'T GET ME!'

[alvinz95]

EBWOP: Its ok goat. Hop on the wagon. I won't attack you for it.

[alvinz95]

not calling us morons in your signature is a good first step

Whoops forgot about that . I should probably change that even if it does come true ^-^;

Really, you must be happy your mates got you through this. This is like 'HAHA! YOU GUYS DIDN'T GET ME!'

No, because even after you die I'll still be on the plate tomorrow unless I shape up. On the EXTREME off chance you are townie I'd rather prevent another townie death by actually playing less scumilly.

Theres also an EXTREME off chance that you are townie too. Really, stop exaggerating.

[alvinz95]

My role will reveal EVERYTHING. Uncooperative I may be, but right I am (yoda!).

[alvinz95]

My role will reveal EVERYTHING. Uncooperative I may be, but right I am (yoda!).

Nah, can't you tell I'm the prize lynch? You're second place. My lynch basically will shatter loads of theories and force new ones to be made...yours feels more like it will leave us with a dead scum and a lot of sighs of relief.

By doing this you're just planting an even larger Day 3 target spot for tomorrow after I die. Don't make the same mistake you made yesterday. You were super positive that Rage was scum (according to your tone and word choice), but you were wrong, and you again will be wrong today.

[alvinz95]

so whats the right play?

Forbiddenlight, StrangerCoug, Goatrevolt are scum.

[alvinz95]

I actually would like to be shot. I request a mafia NK or vig NK. Just to prove to FL.

[alvinz95]

Then what will happen to cerebus if we don't find the replacement in the near future?

If i dont find a replacement for cerebus3 by page 50, I will modkill him, but the day will continue. (most likely)

Wow, thats harsh.

Rage is a distraction off the real deal, Forbiddenlight wagon. There you go. Now stop annoying me.

I'm asking for a NK or Vig kill.

Rage what is your question?

[alvinz95]

Here I will admit.

I am not smarter than a fifth grader!

ok jk, but MY SCUMHUNTING SKILLS FAILED ME. I was wrong. Who would have known Sthar/Electra/Skillit were scum? Now I add new skills to my repertoire such as noticing that scum protect townies usually. Apology to SC and FL if they found me as a dumbass bastard that was being cruel for no reason.