Mini 2156: Launch Mob [Game Over]

[ready2rock]

VOTE: Blair I recognize that message from the last game we were in, for shame

While we're here I just want to take the opportunity to say that I finished Outer Wilds a few days ago, and it's a very good game that people should play if they haven't yet

[ready2rock]

@Mafi: I do enjoy not agonizing over my posts as much when playing town and focusing on gamesolving, but I think I might have a slight preference to scum. Both are enjoyable, but there's something satisfying about knowing alignments and what that can do to how you play

Plus, you have teammates that you're playing with that you know you can trust

...at least, when they bother to check the PT...

[ready2rock]

Hey all, was super under the weather yesterday and spent pretty much all day in bed unable to function, but feeling much better today, so am working on catching up now

[ready2rock]

UNVOTE:

Right now I'm not liking BM all that much. He's claiming that he had both town and scum tells from midway, but I only ever saw him give midway the least charitable reading possible and sounded very sure midway was scum (see: his iso read at 110) until he decided to push someone else, then suddenly he was having a slight town read on midway all along

VOTE: Battle Mage

@BM What specifically gives you any town vibes on midway? And when, if at all, did your read change?

That all being said I don't like Nosferatu's entrance into the game all that much either, very combative

Happy birthday Umlaut!

[ready2rock]

That all being said I don't like Nosferatu's entrance into the game all that much either, very combative

ill fight u on that

whats bad about being combative

A fair point, I think I was thrown off by it because it felt like a disproportionate response to the level of pressure on you.

That part of my post also had a thread of connection in my head because I was talking about where BM's reads felt strange to me and granting that there was an element of BM's reads that I saw some merit in (namely, his read on you). But it was in part shade and I can see how it came across to people as exclusively that.

Vote's still on BM btw because he hasn't said a word since then

i think BM leans town and 176 from rock felt weird. I hate the reason for voting BM and the side dig on Nosferatu both of which I disagree with

Why do you disagree? What makes you read BM town (which it sounds like you're implying here)?

To clarify a bit, my case is that in his read of midway, especially his ISO analysis post, he presents every post and basically waves his arms and says "see? this is clearly scum!" There's almost no "this isn't too bad" or "I could see this coming from misled town, but..." and this is what I meant by uncharitable. It felt so confident for page 5, and made the fact that he completely changed course feel strange as well.


I’m super unsure on what Dunn is trying to accomplish with 192 and 194. Did he think midway was L-1? Does he think that his case from half the game ago is actually compelling enough to just recycle as reason to put him at this supposed L-1? I kinda want to say that this is too careless to come from scum. Been wrong on that before, but I'll go with that for now

Then there's no reason to make those posts in the first place. He won't be townread for a dumbtell that he's hyper aware of. Note, I'm not townreading him for the dumbtell itself.

I think there’s not a real reason to make a post like this D1. Maybe later if solving the setup becomes relevan/we get more info on the setup, but not this early. At the same time I agree with others that it doesn't point in either direction towards alignment

what do you guys think of ready2rock, Mafi I see you've joined my wagon

I think this is the most posts I've made before a wagon formed on me in a while

@Blair Do you have a read?

Still would like to hear from BM on answering questions I asked in my previous post

[ready2rock]

OK so bear with me, trying to help people understand what I'm talking about here

Please read the post for yourself and point out if you feel I'm misrepresenting or missing a time he did it here, but what I'm doing is trying to hone in on the places in the iso analysis where BM makes a "ruling" on whether something midway did is town or scum indicative. Line break indicates talking about a new post in the ISO

some players are just like this. This isn't consistent however...

Out of nowhere, a bit of banter about being scum. Then an awkward segue "aaaaanyways..."

sounds like an informed minority[...]scummy answers to the 4 questions.

which I think is slightly scum-indicative, as town are often more liberal with their allegiances.

In the last game I played with Midway, this same approach was used, and the same conversation ensued about why it was done. Why ask the question if he already knows the answer? Just playing dumb.

Non-serious question misleadingly framed as a serious one.

Why do you scumread me?

nuff said.

Probably about the time scum might consider this at risk of looking conspicuous. Midway needs to make another vote and wants to make it sound serious so he looks like he is progressing the game. More marks for presentation than substance.

And it's all "slight scummy" "here's why this has scum motivations" "misleading" "informed minority" "playing dumb" "nuff said"

Only one place (at the very beginning) does he give any form of a benefit of the doubt, then immediately undercuts it

I guess I'm not seeing what the town reasoning is for painting someone as this scummy with this much confidence this early in the game, and on top of that, being willing to throw away this supposed conviction based off basically 1 post from someone else

This is why I'd still like to know from BM when the read on midway changed, if at all

[ready2rock]

I like these posts from redrock. Are you misgooned often?

Not fully usually, though it has happened. Mostly something I say in the first couple posts gets a big wagon formed on me early, and that's been as both town and scum

@IV: What's your read on BM and why? You say you disagree with my case, but you never explained.

Blair has Schrodinger's Case, where she’s presented this incredible genius read for the last page or two, but we haven't opened the box so you’ll never know if her case was ever actually there or not

[ready2rock]

@IV: What's your read on BM and why? You say you disagree with my case, but you never explained.

I think this is consistent with town!BM tunneling to get reads on that slot, and not nearly as consistent with whatever scum motivation you didn't explain other than just mentioning it was "strange" and you didn't see town motivation

It kind of feels disingenuous that you are not able to see past this surface level while also not giving a clear reason WHY scum!BM is more motivated to do this, I'm sure you know that town can can tunnel with seemingly a lot of confidence and back off when they have gotten a better read on the slot. And I don't like that you don't like a lot of things by just casting shade and calling things weird or strange without much actual alignment analysis, this feels more scum than town motivated for reasons I've stated.

So it sounds like the TR of BM comes from believing
a) Tunneling is more likely to come from town than scum
b) Projecting overly confident reads is more likely to come from town than scum

I'm not certain that I fully buy either of those, for (b) especially I think it makes it easier to fall back on no matter what someone flips, now regardless on whether BM was right or wrong about midway he can point to interactions and say that he had a point and is trustworthy for town to listen to.

So in summary, I think scum!BM would be in a position to want to come out of the gate projecting scumhunting and #content, while also not really needing to commit to it by backing off the push at the first opportunity of something else

I get what you mean by my phrasing, think I use that because basically everyone at this point is in very slightly different shades of yellow for me. I think the only thing I'd categorize as still being "strange" without putting a read on it is whatever Dunn was doing

Speaking of which,

I kinda want to say that this is too careless to come from scum. Been wrong on that before, but I'll go with that for now

With Dunnstral, being lazy as scum is definitely something he would do. I don't think you should let someone free from suspicion just because they seem to be too scummy to be scum.

Oh for sure, that's what I meant when I said I've been wrong on it before, but I think on its own it's not enough for me to pin scummy motivation on, but I think it'll be interesting to see where it fits within a larger ISO as the game goes on. Worth noting and keeping an eye on

[ready2rock]

I'll try to keep the response to BM brief so we don't turn into walls responding to walls. I do like the responses so I will UNVOTE:

In short, you were wondering what I thought the scum motivation was, and given that I also think that midway is town, it felt like what you were doing was casting a ton of suspicion on someone (what I meant by having the scummy reads) while not actually wanting to fully follow through on it (backing off and reading as town now), so you could plant all the seeds of doubt and suspicion without actually having to commit to it. Hopefully that helps it make sense how those two things aren't in contradiction in my head.

I do also acknowledge that the there is totally town reason for the push, and your subsequent responses have made me feel better about that being the explanation, hence the unvote.

If there's something I missed feel free to let me know BM, but I'd rather not be here all night going point by point and I don't think anyone else would like that very much either

[ready2rock]

Blair: A Dunn wagon won't serve as any actual pressure, just FYI
Blair 1 page later: Oh a dunn wagon, time to hop on!

VOTE: Blair

This plus the way she was pushing the votes for me (which I pointed out earlier) makes me feel good about this

[ready2rock]

Posting as I read each page and have thoughts

I don't agree with Blair's previous vote on you, but she did give an interesting and plausible rationale.

I think the answer to the above perceived discrepancy is that this Dunn wagon isn't simply about "pressure".

You should join the Dunn wagon with me.

Her rationale came

only

after everyone else's did. She did post the suspicion first, then sat back and let everyone else do the work, and then swooped in with rationale so she can take the credit for "leading the wagon" when all she actually did was post a FoS with no rationale.

That's possible, and isn't quite a contradiction, but I did find it amusing and I do think she needs to elaborate a bit if she's got a case

Maybe

[ready2rock]

OK, I see Blair has explained further.

I'd prefer if she explained from the start. I don't think it's out of left field to think that if you're quoting a post that just says "townblock assemble" as the explanation, to think that a you're building a wagon to build a wagon (i.e. pressure). Overall these "make the read/push first, explain later" is what's making your posts read as scum to me.

I'm feeling better about a launch of Dunn today as I'm reading (not completely caught up yet)

[ready2rock]

I think BM Mafi Blair bear are probtown

Blair bear

This would be too good a scumteam name

[ready2rock]

Alright, we going Dunnstral today?

So you have nothing else to say?

Dude what are you on about? He has one of the most substantial ISOs of anyone in this game

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Dunnstral

L-1. I'm hopeful that this is a scum slot, and it is at the very least a slot that has been unhelpful to town

[ready2rock]

What's the case on ydrasse? I have her as slight town right now

[ready2rock]

MG brings up decent points, and her vote on MG doesn't make a ton of sense.

On the other hand, if you're scum and have been saying that Dunn is scum and have your vote on him, why not keep your vote on him at this point in the day and let the launch on dunn happen?

Doesn't seem like the clearest scum move to make either, but I think we're getting into a big ol' WIFOM case

[ready2rock]

I mean if I'm outvoted then I'm outvoted, but I think Dunn looks way scummier, and while I think MG's point is the most solid against ydarsse right now, I'm still not convinced

How has Dunn provided any help or benefit to the town? The reason I held off on a scumread or vote was to give him the time to start scumhunting or posting any substantial content, and he just...hasn't

[ready2rock]

Convenient that the 3 people that Dunn read as scum last page all had votes on them at the time

[ready2rock]

Setup and PR spec is really not my domain since I don't feel I have enough games under my belt

I will say that IV's hesitation and self-doubt feels genuine and towny, and that it's tough for me to find a scummy motivation to not just let the chaos of a last second flash wagon happen, as opposed to trying to clumsily cc

I've got about an hour or so drive and I'll think about it then and be back before deadline, but right now I'm leaning towards Ydarsse

[ready2rock]

OK put some thought into it, and have 3 thoughts

1. I trust IV and the way he cc'ed
2. I'm trusting of what other people are saying about setup stuff since quite a few people are coming to similar conclusions
3. I think trying to rush to an elim of anyone else at this stage of the day would be

really

bad for town

So all of these lead me to VOTE: Ydrasse

[ready2rock]

What's the case on ydrasse? I have her as slight town right now

OK put some thought into it, and have 3 thoughts

1. I trust IV and the way he cc'ed
2. I'm trusting of what other people are saying about setup stuff since quite a few people are coming to similar conclusions
3. I think trying to rush to an elim of anyone else at this stage of the day would be

really

bad for town

So all of these lead me to VOTE: Ydrasse

yeah midway is right, this progression does look kinda weak

I made 4 posts in between this

So I guess yeah, the progression looks pretty weak if you take away, y'know, any context of a progression

For the record, I didn't have her read as scum based on the content of her posts at all, nothing really jumped out to me (aside from what I said at 387, which wasn't clear cut enough to me to sway me to a vote), so I don't think I would've voted her if it hadn't been for IV counter claiming

And to answer your question earlier, I think off wagon is more likely, mostly because I read most of the people on wagon as town atm, while the people off wagon have largely been null to scum for me

[ready2rock]

I am only as confident as the information I am getting from you guys

I don't like this.

Retracting intent.

He's counter-claiming without telling us his role

or

taking any responsibility for the outcome.

I'd rather launch Dunnstral today and let the PR claims self-sort.

I mean you held this opinion even after the claims came out, so if I'd come out looking bad what would that say about you?

Also, someone earlier brought up Ydarsse's interactions with dunn, what do you make of them and how does it affect your read on dunn?

[ready2rock]

Previous post is to Blair if that wasn't clear

@Dunn, do you have some substantial reason/case for voting Blair? Because it's feeling pretty OMGUS to me right now

[ready2rock]

@blair I mean sure you can launch me tomorrow if this doesn’t flip red lol. I’ve told you I’m a full Neapolitan Gunsmith or Cop. I don’t really understand setup spec. What else do you need from me

So this went unresponded to and wasn't good enough for you, apparently

Mini Normal 1919

Moderator:

ThinkBig

Current Update:

Game Over [Awaiting Archiving]

Player List:

1. SergTacos,
   Vanilla Townie
   , killed night 2
   
2. Klazam,
   Vanilla Townie
   , survived
   
3. Trivium,
   Vanilla Townie
   , lynched day 2
   
4. Umlaut
   replaced Boonskiies
   ,
   Town Odd-Night Cop
   , lynched day 4
   
5. TwoFace,
   Vanilla Townie
   , killed night 4
   
6. Empiricus,
   Vanilla Townie
   , survived
   
7. Mulch,
   Vanilla Townie
   , survived
   
8. Carcalilly,
   Mafia Odd-Night Roleblocker
   , killed night 1
   
9. Tchill13,
   Mafia Goon
   , lynched day 1
   
10. Fykus,
    Mafia Goon
    , lynched day 5
    
11. Branson,
    Vanilla Townie
    , lynched day 3
    
12. Vedith
    replaced shuffleplay
    ,
    Town Vigilante
    , killed night 1
    
13. Dunkerdoodles,
    Town Gunsmith
    , killed night 3

This was the only instance I found in the Normal Setups where a Town Gunsmith was in the same setup as a Town Modified Regular Cop. Thoughts?

And this was followed a few posts later by you trying to get momentum on a counter-wagon going

I'd still like my second question answered btw about Dunn

[ready2rock]

I made 4 posts in between this

So I guess yeah, the progression looks pretty weak if you take away, y'know, any context of a progression

For the record, I didn't have her read as scum based on the content of her posts at all, nothing really jumped out to me (aside from what I said at 387, which wasn't clear cut enough to me to sway me to a vote), so I don't think I would've voted her if it hadn't been for IV counter claiming

And to answer your question earlier, I think off wagon is more likely, mostly because I read most of the people on wagon as town atm, while the people off wagon have largely been null to scum for me

I admit that all I did was ctrl-f your iso for "Ydrasse," but I don't see anything else that shows much more of a progression. Blair's point about you v Dunn feels good too. This post has an edge of too much defense in it, and I'm trying to decide if that's town or not

I explained the progression in my last post, but I'll state it again if it wasn't clear. I was definitely in the camp of Dunn looking scummier, and wanting to push for him to be launched, and probably would've continued to be until the end of the day (as evidenced by my next two posts). Then, the cc happened and was very believable to me, and that made me have to rethink my readings and decide what I thought was the best thing to do, and eventually I decided that not hammering would open the floodgates for some last second flash wagon to try to go on someone, which would have close to zero chance of actually catching someone, and so I liked the chances of IV telling the truth and Ydarsse being successfully cc'ed better.

I think the reason it might feel off to you is because my vote was not really based much on my read of Ydarsse herself, and more on everything surrounding it

[ready2rock]

Sleep schedule's messed up and haven't had the chance to check in. I'll be around with something when I get up (around 10-12 hours from now)

Been quite torn between Blair and Dunn this whole day phase

[ready2rock]

umlaut page top? how could we allow this to happen?

VOTE: ready2rock

Look I'm sorry I'll try not to let him get pagetop next time

Anyways, still feeling uneasy about Blair, so VOTE: Blair

[ready2rock]

Dunn:

-As I've pointed out in day 1, has not played in a way that has been beneficial to town, and I think still lacks anything of real substance in his iso
-Is now doing what I perceive to be an OMGUS push on Blair. If he's got a more substantial case, I haven't seen it

Blair:

-Had a push on me day 1 that felt really scummy (a FoS with no reasoning or case to go along with it) that other people promptly just jumped on, and then she didn't provide any case or reasoning until everyone else already had
-Retracted vote and hammer, and was advocating for a counter wagon instead on midway, who she hadn't shown any suspicion or taken much notice towards since almost 10 pages before that
-Is now trying to push a case against myself and Dunn, two fairly popular day 1 targets

(if you want elaboration on any of these points, let me know, I'm just trying to summarize to avoid a big wall)

My vote is on Blair because I think the more calculated feeling behavior sets off alarm bells for me moreso than the anti-town behavior

[ready2rock]

OK, I'll clarify point 1 real quick because I didn't state my implication clearly enough. I'm not trying to say that you were presenting suspicion without a case because you didn't have any reasoning at the time and were trying to plagiarize off other people. Moreso that you cast the suspicion to leave bait there to see who would take it, and see if a wagon might be able to catch on, then not need to take responsibility for starting the wagon, because after all, you weren't the first vote or were the one who the case yourself.

Points 2 and 3 are trickier because I think you're a smart player and aren't going to outright slip, and that you'd be able to fabricate a realistic looking progression for yourself as scum, which is why I'm looking more at the actions and seeing whether they're plausible to come from scum, and the actions themselves are a convenient position for scum to be in.

[ready2rock]

My eye is also starting to be on the people who are kind of fading into the background during this day

[ready2rock]

I'd say mafi is a bit at the moment (though I've been reading him as town), and Nosferatu

I didn't unvote, my vote is still on Blair, and I feel that if I were scum I'd have given up this push a long time ago after the first 2 or 3 times because it hasn't been gaining any traction from people, but I'm continuing because it's helping me get a better feel of my read.

ya hes quivering in fear

already caught scum p much wrap it up

I didn't know BM was caught scum

Midway what are your reads on people?

[ready2rock]

Town Read

Midway
Mafi
BM
Puppy
Nosferatu
Dunn
Blair

Scum Read

[ready2rock]

In case that wasn't clear, that's from most town to most scum to me right now

Also, page top is ours once more, rejoice!

[ready2rock]

Moreso that you cast the suspicion to leave bait there to see who would take it, and see if a wagon might be able to catch on, then not need to take responsibility for starting the wagon, because after all, you weren't the first vote or were the one who the case yourself.

Serious Question:

Do I strike you as the sort of person who tries to avoid taking credit for starting wagons?

OK, this...is a fair point

Let me ask then, what

was

your reason for the FoS post? (178)

I don't mean why did you suspect me, I understand that, but why not a vote? Why not give further explanation at the time?

What's been bothering me is that it feels like town!blair would reference the post in question, call out what you thought was wrong with it, and accompany it with a vote. That's why it feels so out of place to me

[ready2rock]

@Blair: As I was going to sleep last night, my thought was that it was

because

it didn't seem like you to shirk responsibility for a wagon, that it felt so off to me. That said, I like the answer you gave, and since that was the main thing that set off my radar I'm going to UNVOTE:

sorry guys i havent got much time at the moment to do proper thinking. did look at Ydrasse ISO and still happy it's Nosferatu. He was lumped in the "could be scum" block for a bit of distancing, but the rationale for him not being an active target was particularly contrived.

I'm down for this

VOTE: Nosferatu

[ready2rock]

Oh I'm voting you for a different reason BM is, and I pointed it out on the last page and it kind of just flew over your head in a way that I found pretty amusing

Let me try to make it more clear in case others also missed it

ya hes quivering in fear

already caught scum p much wrap it up

Vote Count 2.3

ready2rock

(2): Mafia Goon, CantLynchAPuppy

Battle Mage

(1): Nosferatu

[ready2rock]

The tricky thing about this game is that I'd usually be looking for associatives between people in the game at this point, but we already have a flip so I can't do that as much.

I liked BM's responses to my push on him day 1, but I could be wrong. Nothing today really can give a read either way for me

Want to note since I haven't said much about puppy all game because he's been really tough for me to read this game. Hard neutral, and is a slot I'd definitely go back and iso day 3 (if I live that long)

My pool currently from most town to most scum is (trying to give some separation to demonstrate how strongly I'm reading in either direction)

Midway

- very tough for me to see this slot interacting with scumbuddy day 1 the way he did

BM

- see above

mafi

- Been feeling pretty good about this slot all game. Still skeptical, but hasn't given me a reason to feel bad

Puppy

- See above

Blair

- After my push on her I feel better. Still watching out, but not my top read anymore

Dunn

- Very anti-town all game, and will feel pretty silly if we lose and he lives to the end. Blair probably had the best point against him, but hasn't been my top scumread, more anti-town

Nosferatu

- Coming in a separate post, also want to look at these supposed pro-town interactions from day 1

[ready2rock]

OK, so the argument/case in Nosferatu’s favor on Day 1 wagons appears to be that the place that he jumped on the wagon day 1 would be inconvenient for a scumbuddy and carried the momentum towards the claim and elim.

However, this also came with no case, or pressure, or interaction with her of any kind, so I don’t think I buy it as a hard clear in the way that he seems to think. (go back and look for him interacting at all with her if you don't believe me, I don't see any aside from votes

Here are my two main points against him

ya hes quivering in fear

already caught scum p much wrap it up

1) Keep in mind that at this point, I have votes on me and we are supposedly wanting to start to “wrap it up,” but then after that he’s still not wanting to vote me while still insisting that I am caught and confirmed scum, and instead:

its ok ill wait as long as i need for u to publish ur scumpost magnum opus

waiting for weekend to end so that battle mage can scumpost in his response so i dont have to scumhunt his ISO~~~

Been quite torn between Blair and Dunn this whole day phase

i quite literally refuse to believe its not TvT given that dunn being scum would imply we wagoned both scum in d1 and even after being gone two years i dont have that much faith in the town meta of this site

2) The absolute insistence that over me, he’s pushing for someone that he’s too lazy to want to actually make a case on both indicates to me that he hasn’t been interested in actually scumhunting or attaching his name to a case

Say what you want about me this game, but I’ve at least been willing to give my perspective and put my cases out there, even when they haven’t been popular or gaining traction

[ready2rock]

What was 577 then? Why explain and follow up and clarifying that you think I'm the caught scum, but

not

clarifying that you're being sarcastic about me being the caught scum?

[ready2rock]

I didn't interpret 572 to be about BM, I interpreted 572 to be about me, and serious, and your opportunity to clarify, instead of explaining that you didn't scumread me or that you weren't being serious, your response was "no u r," which does not clarify anything.

As for 587, what exactly was the implication here? That someone was trying to make the case against me was wrong because they're saying I have low posts? Who was doing that? Do people use most/least posts to determine scum like that? Because I didn't see anyone doing that in this game at the very least

Is the implication that my 570 was bad and that I shouldn't be calling out lurkers? I think it was justified for where we were at in the day, plus you're using it to call out BM right now (saying that he and I are going to lurk until deadline)? And if you thought my 570 was bad, midway did too, and you're claiming to be mocking him for it, so that doesn't make sense either

[ready2rock]

[ready2rock]

Previous post is to Blair if that wasn't clear

@Dunn, do you have some substantial reason/case for voting Blair? Because it's feeling pretty OMGUS to me right now

yeah, why is Blair scummy?

Her push isn't something she believes in

And she's seen me as scum before

@Midway I asked this question and he hasn't added anything to his case past this point, and signs point to doubting that he will

I'm good with either Nosferatu or Dunn at this point, if we're talking about where we'd be willing to put our votes

I agree with Puppy that I think we should decide on someone today

[ready2rock]

Who played with Blair before?

I've played one game with Blair, Puppy, Midway, and Dunn before (Mini 2141)

@Nosferatu Why are you pushing for voting out someone who just got replaced right before deadline? Care to offer any reads on anyone else?

[ready2rock]

But I mean let's not forget his airtight defense:

Well... it's not me

[ready2rock]

Anyone who is opposed to Dunn today: Please explain in what way he has helped the town

[ready2rock]

@Midway: I mean, yes in a way? You can read my reads list last page, which hasn't really changed since then, and hopefully you can gather from that that Nosferatu is my preference, but I'd prefer someone over no one, and dunn is my current next best choice.

I've said multiple times that I read him as more anti-town than scum, but that he also hasn't given off town tells (which is why I asked the question I did). Meanwhile the only point I really see against him is what Blair pointed out at the start of the day (521)

[ready2rock]

Honestly, I get the feeling Dunnstral is one of those sickos that favours scum over town. Why else would he rep into so many slots?

Can we get confirmation on that, Dunn?

Not true, I prefer to play as town

Alright, we going Dunnstral today?

So you have nothing else to say?

I think Blair and Ydrasse and midwaybear all come out looking bad here

Here? I'll say that this is one of the more substantial line of things he's posted, but what about it would indicate town? Putting Ydarsse on the list maybe?

[ready2rock]

so our kill for the day is gonna be bc "well he's not doing much anyway"

nice

I mean you have been giving no reads or input on anyone else except the one person that you've been tunneling all day with no support. I offered you the opportunity to say what other reads you've had and thus far you've refused to give any.

If you think a competing wagon is better, you are free to speak up, say so, and explain why.

I understand that lurking/inactivity is not a scumtell by itself, which is why my read of the BM slot hasn't really been affected by day 2 actions. It's more that Dunn's contributions have not been substantive or helpful, and at times have been harmful

I am working to consider the points in Dunn's favor as well as points against. What I see is one or two points against and none for

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Dunn

[ready2rock]

Hi, I am one shot vig.

Why does puppy have to be town? You saying because he's being active today?

[ready2rock]

Nosferatu died during the night.

^My crumb. It's subtle, dunno if you can pick up on it

[ready2rock]

Family stuff keeping me busy atm, but I promise I'll post some thoughts tomorrow evening

[ready2rock]

OK, so help me understand real quick, because setup stuff is not my forte here

Is Kerset role claiming? Both things listed seem to both be modifiers and not roles? Or would the role look like "If someone who is bulletproof dies, you become bulletproof"

If I'm following the logic correctly, then the argument is that Bulletproof backup -> Bulletproof role -> Traitor -> 2 town, 1 traitor, 1 mafia left if we get it wrong today -> mafia win if we get it wrong today? Making sure I'm understanding why we think we're in LyLo

And puppy seems to be saying that it's likely 1 may not imply 2 (in other words, bulletproof backup may not mean bulletproof role), but I'm also unsure why 2 implies 3 (that the bulletproof role means it's a traitor)?

[ready2rock]

Thinking about the idea that Kerset is lying, what would scum's motivation would be to make a claim that added urgency to the town (by saying that we're in lylo) and was also unverifiable, making people skeptical of you and your claim?

Seems like it'd be overplaying for no reason

[ready2rock]

on that note, r2r, you are basically mechanically clear and not posting, bruh. please post a little more, we could all use some guidance from a town-slot, a little discussion here could make or break the game

So much pressure coming from a puppy!

Apologies, on top of my already busy schedule that was supposed to be springing up, more matters came up that made me even busier

And to be honest, I'm not very confident in my reads, as I feel like I've been wrong this entire game. Even day 1 when we got scum I read her as town until the CC, so me sucking this game isn't helping my motivation.

fwiw though, I don't think Kerset is scum because I think pulling a gambit like this would be quite risky, as I said before. And I've townread midway all game, so that leaves Fidget and Puppy for me personally.

[ready2rock]

Couple things of note as I reread during night phase (apologies for not posting them sooner)

The exchange that takes up most of this page here between BM and Ydarsse seems like a lot of attention drawn to be the two of them interacting and overly chummy to be the scumteam IMO

I'm conflicted as far as Blair's tunneling of Dunn goes, because I could see it coming from town or scum. I feel like as either alignment she'd push a case as much as she can for as long as she can if she feels confident in the read, or is trying to get a miselim as the case may be.

I think puppy's my main scumread at the moment because he's been throwing votes in both days 1 and 2 onto slots that have either flipped town or that I read as town

More thoughts to come in a sec, mostly on puppy

[ready2rock]

To the point about the lack of NKA, my NKA is that scum killed the CC night 1 and a slot that was pretty widely townread night 2, and that I will probably get nightkilled tonight

[ready2rock]

I'd rather launch Dunnstral today and let the PR claims self-sort.

I know I went on forever about it day 2, but this post still bothered me on a reread, particularly saying "self-sort." How would that work, and why push for it at the point of a CC?

VOTE: Dunn

Too bad, I was going to switch before I saw the claim anyways : |

VOTE: midwaybear last minute compromise wagon anybody

These two posts also jumped out at me (these were before the CC). Feels like trying to divert attention as quickly as possible to the 2 most popular wagons that day. The midway vote especially felt strange since that wagon had died down by that point

right now the r2r wagon is "leading" with two votes (not sure I cont your residual vote from BM), so if you want a different wagon please argue a better one or jump on

Personally I don't wanna no launch

Here's the one that really bothered me, because it was misleading. At this point here was the votecount:

Vote Count 2.4

Nosferatu

(2): Battle Mage, ready2rock

Blair

(2): Dunnstral, Mafia Goon

ready2rock

(2): midwaybear, CantLynchAPuppy

Dunnstral

(1): Blair

Battle Mage

(1): Nosferatu

With 8 alive, it takes 5 votes to launch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2020-08-16 21:37:00)

Notes:

• Seeking a replacement for Battle Mage.

I don't think it'd be fair to not count BM, since I'm doubting that he'd have come back in and suddenly started TR'ing Nosferatu for the first time all game. Even setting that one aside though, Blair also had 2 votes, so why push that to the side and try to claim that my wagon is in some way leading when it wasn't

My hypothesis: scum have more of a motivation to mislead here because they stand a better chance to push a miselim onto me at this stage in the day than trying to get people to vote Blair

Not voting yet because we still have a little time to discuss, but this is where I'm leaning atm

[ready2rock]

Also, I try not to read into these type of things most of the time, but there have been a few instances of puppy talking about feeling ignored or not listened to this game. It might be nothing, and it might be genuine (which is why I hesitate bringing it up, and I apologize if it is genuine), but it could be a pretty sly AtE from scum trying to get a bit more influence on the town

[ready2rock]

you can scumread me if you want, i'm tired of this game and not sure how much im going to fight it

spent the whole game posting against a lurkbase, talking to blank walls, then having to compromise because nobody's around to work things out. think i played a bad day 1 but that was over a month ago now. not going to hash it all out again at the finish. w/e

pedit: leaving this post as-is lol

This made me chuckle

And I get the frustration. I've enjoyed playing with you my last 2 games for what that's worth. And I do agree with midway being town.

@Midway would you say that your read is more on your previous reads of Blair, or PoE? And what are your thoughts on puppy?

PEdit: I guess I got beaten to asking Midway this haha

[ready2rock]

Does scum Kerset need midway on the elimination table? What's the point of that scumread? I disagree with it highly and I don't find it very strong reasoning, but does that make them scum?

And whats the idea behind the Backup Bulletproof claim? Why would Kerset want to trick us into thinking it's Xylo with all the traitor spec?!

I would vote Kerset in a heartbeat if I could work out the answers to these

These are things keeping me from reading this slot as scum as well

[ready2rock]

I legitimately just rechecked my role PM to make sure it wasn't me that's how lost I am

Well? Was it you?

[ready2rock]

Why does bulletproof backup imply traitor so strongly? Are there other possibilities, and we're just running under the assumption of traitor in an abundance of caution? Or is there some kind of balance/setup standard with that role that I'm not aware of?

[ready2rock]

Are there any other common bulletproof roles aside from traitor and scum?

For the record I think a red herring is definitely a possibility

[ready2rock]

Are there any other common bulletproof roles aside from traitor and scum?

For the record I think a red herring is definitely a possibility

Well if there is, in fact, a full bulletproof they'd have to be scum at this point since nobody is claiming it

The only 1-shot BP I'm familiar with is back when the newbie setup had one. It was town aligned.

I was thinking a town BP wouldn't claim so that a) they might draw the NK (unlikely though in this case since I'm still alive) and b) people might think they're scum bulletproof and they get miselim'ed

Again, setup spec is very much not my domain

[ready2rock]

@Umlaut Battle Mage is still listed in your "Not Voting" instead of Kerset

Fixed, thanks

- Um

[ready2rock]

My current vote is just going to be agreement with r2r's decision

Well I've been wrong all game so don't put all your stock there quite yet.

I'm at scum>puppy>fidget>kerset>midway

And overall whoever's scum is playing quite well

[ready2rock]

Fairly sure what I want to do, but gonna sleep on it for now and will try to be around earlier tomorrow than I was today

[ready2rock]

Here's where I'm at right now

I'm still sticking to Kerset telling the truth and it being a red herring that Umlaut threw in for fun

For midway, I've townread him since day 1 and I haven't had a compelling reason to re-evaluate that read, and I think now would be a bad time to try to rethink the entire game anyway. Mostly I find the fishing for town cred at the start of day 2 to be a thing that town!midway would definitely do, it felt genuine

Puppy I'm still not feeling great about, but I'm also not getting a lot of consensus on that. Definitely hoping people watch out for him if we're wrong today though

So I do think that Fidget is the way to go today. I will say that she's been awesome with the amount of effort she's put into the game at such a late stage, regardless of her alignment. But I'm torn on her interactions and thought process that she's been posting. She's thrown suspicion around to everyone in a way that could definitely be confused town, but I could absolutely see scum trying to throw as much around as possible right now to see what sticks in the way that she's doing. Just on this page she's thrown speculation about scum being 3 different people.

Back to work, but I'll be around later tonight, most likely with a vote.

[ready2rock]

So fidget, would you say your list is scum>puppy>kerset>midway? Or am I perceiving your thoughts wrong? (hopefully you can forgive me, as they're all over the place lol)

Midway, you said you were gonna potentially do iso's, did that happen? If so, anything useful that you found?

Puppy, if you're not wanting kerset anymore, who would your main preference be? Can't get a sense of who you scumread more between midway and fidget (or who you townread less, as the case may be)

[ready2rock]

My current vote is just going to be agreement with r2r's decision. If the deadline were ending in 5 minutes I'd vote Kerset. I think if I said screw everything and just read the last 4 or 5ish pages, I'd say my reads would be scum>Kerset>Puppy>Midway

I heavily favor Puppy >>> Kerset > midway

Understanding that the first quote is not quite your full reads because of that qualifier, this is still a fairly big shift. Can you explain what specifically caused it?

[ready2rock]

Going to what puppy said about trying to secure a deadlock, I feel like that'd be scum's goal right now, and that the one who's been trying to do that the most is fidget. On the opposite end you have kerset, who has been banging on the midway drum all day and I think for that has shot up into my most townie read. Puppy's defense in the last couple of pages has been pretty decent as well, not to mention fidget trying to push a case onto puppy when she knows I scumread him makes me raise my eyebrows a bit

I think the day playing out as long as it has has been good for a potential Xylo tomorrow, but I also think that I've come to my decision.

I just hope that I'm right

VOTE: Fidget

[ready2rock]

Hey, I gave it a decent shot, didn't I?

A very decent one!

Honestly I was really engaged in the ending of this game, in large part thanks to the work you were putting in

[ready2rock]

So turns out my 3rd post of the game where I voted BM was like the one time in the game that my read was correct. Played like trash the rest of the game, sorry to town that I couldn't be more help.

Great game everyone, the final 2 days especially were really interesting to follow/play!