Mini Normal 2170: Stuff I’m Listening To [Game Over]

[MURDERCAT]

Haha I must be town now right Shea? I'm getting NM to sheep me

[MURDERCAT]

While you are here I am curious about your response to my response to Gamma

[MURDERCAT]

yo...shea..let me out. Just yeet this dude next.

Can someone tell me if Panzer would fake this as scum?

[MURDERCAT]

UNVOTE:

ugh

[MURDERCAT]

No it is not towny to try to start wagons everywhere. Shea's tone sounds so town but he's pushing wagons based off of terrible reasons. I feel like its not towny behavior. It's just his playstyle is towny

This describes exactly what Murdercat has been doing for the last handful of pages much more than it describes anything that Shea is doing.

This is honestly true, though I dispute the "terrible reasons"

[MURDERCAT]

I asked MC to answer the question: Explain to me why Noraa is town and MC went "I need to do a read" and then came back and didn't answer the question really. So I ask again, name like 2-3 things that noraa has done that you think come from a town mindset.

It's kind of unfair to ask that when I never said I had a hard town read on her. I just don't find things that you find scummy to be scummy. But ok I will look through the iso again

[MURDERCAT]

Shea in the meantime, I am curious if you are independently scum reading me enough to the point that if Noraa does flip green you would still come after me and vice versa.

[MURDERCAT]

Spoiler: noraa progression on me

Blitzo's post 34 is overly defensive to what I perceive as a joke from Kazu(can I call you that?) Overall an interesting slot but they are in my null for the time being.

Murder sheeps Shea's(may I call u that?) opinions a shit ton. Zero evidence to back up reads ... in general. Also buddies shea a bit too. I'm not liking the look of it rn so I SR Murder.

Post 64 - I really like the way OutWorldER thinks. Very logic based and overall beneficial to town if town but very scary if scum. He can go into early town book for now tho. I don't agree completely with his views bc I think we don't have enough to be saying Blitzo is hard to read but the way of thinking is towny imo.

Pooky is hard to read. idk. null here as well as I understand this is their normal play style.
I still dk what BoP is soooo can I get some SE help around here in unfamiliar territory?

Gamma got into a bit of hot water but meh seems like typical gamma play here. I don't see anything funky so gammas a null for now.

Bulge putting pressure on Murder I approve of. Also Bulge gets +Noraa biased points bc they modded the first game that I won on site. Into my town book u go.

Post 121 - no pooky I won't be claiming 3p this game lmao.

Kazu's entrance are +++townpoints. reads very town imo.

Not mafia and Pooky are in the same "Noraa isn't capable of reading" category

Duppins posts are giving me such strong town pings, I'm worried he's scum. in the slight scum reads he goes.

Guesser's entrance could be townie in pointing out the absence of spam from me or scum setting me up to be limbait. Imma go with the first option for now.

Shea is .... meh null.

Now for my vote

VOTE: Murder

@Murder
in other words, ur vote felt like OMGUS

Noraa how about you attempt to contribute to the game by explaining your scum read on me?

how about your dropped SR on me and choice to ignore my posts directed at u that were trying to solve? you best reply to everything I asked if u want a reply to this.

Others have been scummier as of late so for now
UNVOTE: Murder

I know you won't be satisfied by an argument that assumes I'm town, but I am starting here as it's the thing that I find most convincing. I just can't see why scum Noraa unvotes me there. She would have hard a reasonable progression in her iso, reasonable ammo to claim she thought I was scum, and you a TRed player suspect me so it is a great place to keep a vote in case a wagon on me picks up. If she did have a chance at another miselim I could see it, but why a naked unvote? No other wagon seemed that promising.

[MURDERCAT]

Blitzo's post 34 is overly defensive to what I perceive as a joke from Kazu(can I call you that?) Overall an interesting slot but they are in my null for the time being.

Murder sheeps Shea's(may I call u that?) opinions a shit ton. Zero evidence to back up reads ... in general. Also buddies shea a bit too. I'm not liking the look of it rn so I SR Murder.

Post 64 - I really like the way OutWorldER thinks. Very logic based and overall beneficial to town if town but very scary if scum. He can go into early town book for now tho. I don't agree completely with his views bc I think we don't have enough to be saying Blitzo is hard to read but the way of thinking is towny imo.

Pooky is hard to read. idk. null here as well as I understand this is their normal play style.
I still dk what BoP is soooo can I get some SE help around here in unfamiliar territory?

Gamma got into a bit of hot water but meh seems like typical gamma play here. I don't see anything funky so gammas a null for now.

Bulge putting pressure on Murder I approve of. Also Bulge gets +Noraa biased points bc they modded the first game that I won on site. Into my town book u go.

Post 121 - no pooky I won't be claiming 3p this game lmao.

Kazu's entrance are +++townpoints. reads very town imo.

Not mafia and Pooky are in the same "Noraa isn't capable of reading" category

Duppins posts are giving me such strong town pings, I'm worried he's scum. in the slight scum reads he goes.

Guesser's entrance could be townie in pointing out the absence of spam from me or scum setting me up to be limbait. Imma go with the first option for now.

Shea is .... meh null.

I don't see this read list coming from scum. It's honestly so empty it makes no sense in some places, e.g. duppin. This isn't a tstbs argument, I am saying that scum here should be pushing someone and probably at least town leaning you. But ok you want evidence of town, not not scum so I will keep reading

[MURDERCAT]

There are several questions I have for 205.

Blitzo's post 34 is overly defensive to what I perceive as a joke from Kazu(can I call you that?) Overall an interesting slot but they are in my null for the time being.

You see Blitzo as overly defensive (which I agree with) but then go on to null them. Can you elaborate?

Duppins posts are giving me such strong town pings, I'm worried he's scum. in the slight scum reads he goes.

What on earth is this logic? "They seem towny, so I'm going to scumlean them"????????

Shea is .... meh null.

Can you go further into detail on your thoughts on TSQ?

I may end up switching votes here.

Overly defensive can be a scum or town tell depending on the person or it could be absolutely nothing. I don't have a strong read on Blitz so they are going in null for now until I see something that changes that.

The logic is that duppin normally doesn't strike me as that towny but here he's seeming so towny I'm worried he's faking it.

I can't read Shea aorn. His play style is one of those that I generally struggle to read just like Pooky and Not mafia. These take me a lot of time to get opinions on but I guarantee I'll probably be having at least leans before day 1 ends unless we end up with a flash wagon which I don't recommend.

I think we should be looking closely at that vote ^

its very out of the blue. I expressed concerns with duppins play being not his normal here and this random vote is just ... not rubbing me the right way. I think we might actually have a scum!duppin here.

Also, I know I still need to read up on Noraa (plan on doing that tonight), but based on wagon dynamics alone it feels like Noraa is the town counterwagon to Pooky scum (which is why I was suspicious of Duppin vote)

after the read up, I'm interested in hearing ur updated read. I am not the counterwagon but I can easily become one if people keep sheeping votes on me.

There's intelligent fence sitting which is something I think scum does. That's .. not what Noraa is doing.

But look you seem a lot more confident than me, I don't really want to flip Panzer after those last couple of posts. So let's just vote Noraa and at least get her to do some scum hunting? Because I agree that I don't see a lot of it, the issue is just that I didn't feel like I saw a lot of it in her meta.

[MURDERCAT]

It's interesting that you picked something that I found particularly suspicious about noraa. The fact that she unvotes you when nothing really has changed by saying "others have been scummier" and then doesn't vote anyone or explain who those others are and what they've done seems like the exact opposite of a town mindset to me. Especially since she's now still claiming that she agrees with the SR on you without managing to vote it.

We have a different perspective on this because I know I'm town so I don't blame you. But I think what I would like you to ask yourself is if I really am town do you think this makes sense from my perspective?

[MURDERCAT]

no

fair enough

I do still think the Noraa wagon is town led which is why I'm willing to vote there for the time being.

[MURDERCAT]

Honestly, I'd have to do a deep dive to reread you because I think the two things have become very linked for me. There were and are independent reasons why I was scum reading you (a couple of examples being the willingness to proxy your vote, the pooky push, the lack of pushing your reads with the conviction I would expect from you as town, the shallowness of your reads re: pooky and panzer, the way you did surface level rereads of everyone but somehow didn't manage to come to any concrete conclusions, etc.)

But I'd have to go back and reevaluate all of that as well if noraa flipped town, because its unclear to me how much of it is invading my thought processes for other things. That's part of why I want noraa to go first.

I still don't love the bulge's contribution to this game as well, and I'd probably start digging there if noraa flipped green and on reread I decided you werent that scummy after all, but I don't love dealing too much in hypotheticals.

I don't really have a response for this other than to say this is useful thanks. If Noraa or I is the lim today so be it, I just hope you will reconsider the read on the other one if I flip or if Noraa flips green.

And I agree about Bulge's disappearance.

[MURDERCAT]

fuck patience, this dies NOW!!!!!
VOTE: NORAA
Congratulations, you're the first one to get me charged about a mafia game since I came back.

I'm sorry you feel this way gamma I am having a lot of fun playing with you fwiw

I think we are probably going to flip noraa today but I still don't feel great about it

[MURDERCAT]

Yeah idk.

Where are you at right now Blitzo?

[MURDERCAT]

Murders buddying all over the place.
Lim me today and get murder tomorrow.
dragging a scum down with me is worth it imo.

This is seriously the worst take that happens all the time, it's a terrible POV to have even if I am actually scum because no one ever goes "yeah that townie that got themselves miselimed on day 1 probably had a good read on the game, let's just sheep them."

If you are town, and I really think you might be, please contribute in a way that convinces others that you are town right now

[MURDERCAT]

Yeah idk.

Where are you at right now Blitzo?

Physically or mentally?

I guess both now

[MURDERCAT]

Lel every single post of urs is just like ahaha Noraa is the decided lim. And now u tell me u think I might be town.
seriously?
dont do this for towncred for when I flip green. ur not getting that towncred anyways

*sigh* I am trying to help you

[MURDERCAT]

Honestly speaking, if my presence is just making people mad for some reason you might as well just lim me off. My role isnt useful to town anyways but no I'm not scum. Im fine with flipping to give town more to work with and less to be annoyed at. Im sorry if my plays bothered people lots. I'll eat the lim if that's what town wants. Last time something like this came up, someone replaced out bc of me and I felt terrible so I'd much rather I eat the lim then end up feeling bad for making people have a terrible time.

Shea if you really think this is scum still..

[MURDERCAT]

(FWIW Noraa I enjoy playing with you, it is just difficult because I feel like we come at the game from very different perspectives.)

[MURDERCAT]

Pooky/NM/Bulge scum team?

I don't expect anyone to take this seriously, but it is important that I put this here in case I'm right so that I can link it in postgame

[MURDERCAT]

Im sorry but I've heard too many negative things about my playstyle that I just dont know what to think at times. This'll sound like full on AtE but I will willingly eat the lim bc I dont want to ruin games for others.

I don't think you should read too much into it, it's important to remember that there's always n scum in the game trying to make you look bad.

[MURDERCAT]

I've literally seen the exact same speech from scum before...

She literally did similar things in her other scum games

I did look after I posted that and noticed similar things, but I don't know my gut says town still. But I won't argue anything with that post

[MURDERCAT]

I really dislike this post. You have expressed reasons to SR noraa, said you thought it was a townled wagon and shown willingness to vote on her, yet this post convinced you that she is town?

I don't think that is quite fair, I have been reluctant about Noraa recently and would basically vote there if it was a her or me situation. I do think town is voting her and it's not like I have a result on her or anything so yeah if it comes to that I'll do it. But my gut says town and I think these recent posts sound like a lot of townies who get miselimed. I do think there is a bit a tone shift compared to the other games linked, but I think maybe I'm just conf biased about that.

[MURDERCAT]

How many votes does she have right now?

4 I believe.

[MURDERCAT]

How many votes does she have right now?

4 I believe.

Actually just 3 I think? Sorry

[MURDERCAT]

Everyone agrees so I'll take the lim.

This is factually not true because I am sticking up for you and duppin is giving you a window if you contribute. Why don't you build a case on me and try to get me elimed?

[MURDERCAT]

If ur town, sorry that I'm interpreting kindness like this but from my perspective, I still think ur scum.

Well you can thank me in the dead thread

[MURDERCAT]

The main thing I'm seeing is tonal. In that game it seemed like gave a shit who was elim d1. This game it doesn't really feel like you give a shit.

But I don't think she was ever wagoned on day 1

[MURDERCAT]

withhold reads at times too

If you are elimed it is not worth doing this. I know you have given scum reads but it seems like you are suspecting everyone. Who do you think is town?

[MURDERCAT]

I can't seem to form a town block here with half the playstyles being jestery ones that joke around and do nothing else and the other half all sussing the hell out of me. I am a biased player and I am OMGUSy asf when I'm town. SRs on me will affect my reads whether I want it to or not.

Can you give a blank read list then? Call everyone you aren't scum reading null

[MURDERCAT]

Why are u pushing me to give an undeveloped, not thought out read literally like 3 days into day 1

Because this is how other people sort you

[MURDERCAT]

I feel like Pooky has been gone for 3 days, but it's only been a few hours.

I am off for a while, but I'm interested to see his catchup

[MURDERCAT]

Like if MC-Town really townreads Noraa he should be convincing her that ___ is a better vote and he's town, not trying to egg her into making a case on him because what purpose would that serve? It feels very performative.

Not gonna click the links because I'm on my phone so I'll look at this again later. But the goal is to try to get her to do town things, I don't really think anyone will follow her case and vote me as a result

[MURDERCAT]

skimmed the thread and I'm thinking MC-scum Noraa-town.

feels like MC is trying to use Noraa to hide himself.

These posts ping me:

1108 - I don't get this mindset - shouldn't whether noraa is town or scum be the primary motivation for voting here?
1109 - Feels like he is trying to use a Noraa-Green Flip to Clean Himself
1138 - Why wouldn't he do something about it then?
1149 - The tone of this post feels too certain for what he's quoting - feels like TMI-scum
1183 - I don't understand this - feels like he's mirroring off her self-sacrificial tone. Not really a town mindset here.
Like if MC-Town really townreads Noraa he should be convincing her that ___ is a better vote and he's town, not trying to egg her into making a case on him because what purpose would that serve? It feels very performative.

Ok I read this, seems mostly like tone or perspective stuff so that's fine. I do feel like I explained myself and why I'm taking certain actions but if there is anything you want to talk more to me about I can answer it. I guess the only thing I'll say is that I feel like I'm playing really face up and I wouldn't do things like 1097 as scum because obviously I'm aware of how it reads. But it is important for me to understand in order to assess how comfortable I feel with a Noraa flip.

[MURDERCAT]

Such disrespect for my scum game in this thread I'm embarrassed, I guess everyone forgot while I was gone.

I'm still not convinced it's Noraa and I do feel like there is a chance that Bulge is setting up a move onto me.

[MURDERCAT]

I try

[MURDERCAT]

???

I reread and came to that conclusion. Also my initial vote on Noraa was more of a scumlean and pressure vote

[MURDERCAT]

I do think it's time for a flip

[MURDERCAT]

VOTE: Pooky

It's time to consolidate, I think the pool is {me Pooky Noraa}

UG and NM please move to someone in that pool and let's see where the votes are at

[MURDERCAT]

skimmed the thread and I'm thinking MC-scum Noraa-town.

feels like MC is trying to use Noraa to hide himself.

These posts ping me:

1108 - I don't get this mindset - shouldn't whether noraa is town or scum be the primary motivation for voting here?
1109 - Feels like he is trying to use a Noraa-Green Flip to Clean Himself
1138 - Why wouldn't he do something about it then?
1149 - The tone of this post feels too certain for what he's quoting - feels like TMI-scum
1183 - I don't understand this - feels like he's mirroring off her self-sacrificial tone. Not really a town mindset here.
Like if MC-Town really townreads Noraa he should be convincing her that ___ is a better vote and he's town, not trying to egg her into making a case on him because what purpose would that serve? It feels very performative.

I'll do a full reread later when I have time, feel like I might be too tunneled onto MC right now and I need to look at him from another angle.

I'm confused about why Pooky wouldn't double down on me here after according to everyone looked I've only looked worse since our interaction.

I might be conf biased but it is consistent with my reads that Noraa is town here and Pooky is hedging on both me and Noraa.

[MURDERCAT]

No it's not. Your very much fence sitty when it comes to Murder. All you do is throw shade at him while parking your vote on me.
Regardless of his flip, I would look at you tomorrow.

Noraa please if you are town and stay in this game longer than me I need you to be smarter than this. Even if you scum read Shea, this is not a smart line to push at the moment

[MURDERCAT]

MC stop coaching literally in the game thread.

Hahaha I have no where else to do it Shea

[MURDERCAT]

MC stop coaching literally in the game thread.

Hahaha I have no where else to do it Shea

Well mafia don't have day talk in normals unless the rules state it I'm pretty sure so I believe this.

Well I missed it when reading the rules, but I reread and they do have day talk.

So scratch this point.

Noraa, do you think Shea would fake this town slip

[MURDERCAT]

its not hard to fake lmao. my first game my partner was a rolecop and I called her a roleblocker after she died to get townncred

Do you think at this moment in the game, with everyone but you town reading him, he would fake a town slip?

[MURDERCAT]

I'm confused about what you are implying? I want you to town read Shea and stop doing scummy things so we can flip Pooky today instead of one of us.

[MURDERCAT]

With 13 alive, it takes 7 votes to yeet someone.

Deadline

: (expired on 2020-10-12 14:30:00)

We must yeet someone

[MURDERCAT]

Fair enough. It does look like I'll be the flip today. Sorry I can't give any useful reads, I don't feel like I've had a good handle on this day

[MURDERCAT]

I will say that I think Shea is town and I probably wouldn't reeval that until Elo.

I'm still leaning Noraa town but I don't expect anyone to listen to that D2.

I'm still not sure about Pooky so don't blindly sheep me.

[MURDERCAT]

I say yeet NM if he isn't replaced D2

[MURDERCAT]

Also I just want to say that I'm not at all upset, this game has been super fun and I'm excited to watch it from the dead thread. I believe in you town!

[MURDERCAT]

VT

[MURDERCAT]

You should not change your read because of a VT claim

[MURDERCAT]

I did consider refusing to claim if I thought I had a chance to get out of this and trying eat an NK, but I will just continue to be a target D2 I think. At least I think I gave town a lot to work with.

[MURDERCAT]

I'm only E-2

[MURDERCAT]

Or was only E-2 I guess

[MURDERCAT]

Shea I hope you know I'm insulted that you think I wouldn't be able to coach Noraa better than this if we were both scum

pedit yes I agree with Shea

[MURDERCAT]

There's only a day left, better to do it sooner rather than later. If I were a PR I would be trying harder to get out of it

[MURDERCAT]

I would also really like pooky to make an appearance before deadline

I request this as well

[MURDERCAT]

Vote Pooky?

[MURDERCAT]

Not if he's scum

[MURDERCAT]

Shea search your heart, I know you know it's Pooky deep down inside

[MURDERCAT]

I didn't really, you are just my top scum read still

I'm mostly memeing you can ignore me

[MURDERCAT]

Shea search your heart, I know you know it's Pooky deep down inside

Maybe this would be convincing if you had any real arguments outside of "but I promise its not me who is the baddy!"

If I made a real case against Pooky would you look at it? Because I can do that

[MURDERCAT]

Of course I would. I will look at anything any person in this game posts.

Ok rephrase, if I put a lot of effort into a post would you ever vote there over me/Noraa?

[MURDERCAT]

If I thought you were right. Your burden is high but I'm literally never going to be certain in a game of mafia.

Ok if you hammer me before I do it I won't blame you, but I can do this tomorrow morning

[MURDERCAT]

If I were scum I'd have self voted and shut up by now

[MURDERCAT]

VOTE: BLirzp

This leans town for me btw

[MURDERCAT]

I think scum NM just votes me

[MURDERCAT]

Yeah maybe. Why change votes then?

[MURDERCAT]

This is fair, but that real analysis is much more likely to come D2+

[MURDERCAT]

Sure if I think I catch something then I will go deep, but honestly I don't feel like I have caught something yet

[MURDERCAT]

But I will do my best to read Pooky for you

[MURDERCAT]

Also to be clear about NM, I was only referring to that specific vote, not my entire read on him

[MURDERCAT]

This is fair, but that real analysis is much more likely to come D2+

I'm not talking about analysis. I'm talking about you saying a lot of things like "X is likely town for because they did Y" when Y is frequently done by scum players specifically because it nets town points. I'm not looking for in depth analysis necessarily, but some understanding that sometimes scum plays well is what I'm expecting.

Sure fair enough

[MURDERCAT]

I think scum NM just votes me

Why would I vote you if you're not even at E-1?

This was a serious question, why would I be voting you in that scenario?

To lim me? I'm not sure I understand the question

[MURDERCAT]

If I were to vote you now then I wouldn't be able to quickhammer you, why would I do such a thing?

I see so the question was not serious

[MURDERCAT]

It was serious, you're townreading me for not doing something I would never do

Yeah I mean I guess that's true, why'd you change your vote then though?

[MURDERCAT]

I guess I expect scum NM who has successfully done nothing all game with no consequences to continue doing that and wait quietly for the hammer

[MURDERCAT]

Not_Mafia
Ok I spent a while just now reading NM games and it made me lean scum on him. I realize there is a perception that NM can’t be read (especially not off 5 posts) but we do have to sort him eventually. The reason I’m scumleaning him is that his posting style looks more checked out than average and from the games I looked at he seemed to be more engaged as town (even that engagement came in the form of dumb troll posts). I realize no one is going to follow me on this read unless people want a policy elim, but I’m putting it out there anyway.

This was the bulk of it, nothing strong obviously

[MURDERCAT]

It was serious, you're townreading me for not doing something I would never do

Yeah I mean I guess that's true, why'd you change your vote then though?

technically he didnt

I think the point stands. Anyway I was just putting that in my iso, I'm not trying to make a big deal out of it

[MURDERCAT]

Spoiler: Pooky stuff

Ok so just from a game state perspective I think it is probably better to flip town MC than town Pooky. Obviously it’s better to flip scum Pooky than town MC, but that is why I haven’t hard pushed Pooky, I’m not confident enough right now to do that. So this actually isn’t really an attempt to get anyone to vote there unless you independently value anything in here. I’ve also approached this from the perspective that Pooky is scum, so this is all biased in that direction. That is not an accurate assessment of my read on Pooky, I think he somewhere between probably to maybe scum.

Pooky respond to this if you want but I’m not going to fight with you again, it is fun but exhausting. I accept I’m the lim today. This is more for when I flip than anything else.

The early posts are all just poking around and aren’t really that interesting. I do want to point out that if Pooky ever flips scum I think that leads to town points for Blitzo due to 223. That doesn’t read like distancing to me.

399 sticks out to me still compared to how defensive Pooky gets when I start to pressure him, but I’ll come back to that.

Through 448 I still feel like Pooky has mostly just tried to poke at people. I read my own iso and to me it feels like I am trying to work with people but I just don’t get that sense from Pooky. Even the people he is defending I don’t think he actually is claiming their town or trying to work with them in the same way. Like in 214 Pooky claims that Kasu is probably town and Shea’s progressions are good. Other than basically OOG talk in 267 and 273 there is no interaction with either of them until 333 where he asks Kasu a question. In 456 Shea prompts Pooky to work with him and Pooky, to his credit, obliges.

514 is interesting and has been mentioned already. Compared to what Pooky was saying in 399 it is a weird way to leave the RVS vote. It feels like he was caught for not voting and waited a bit before fixing it. He already had the Blitzo read way back in 224 so why not just vote in 399 instead of making a big deal of it? Just feels overly defensive whereas town I would have just said “ok that’s true I’ll vote now.” Pooky defends his actions in 538 for those interested.

601 <3 I still love you Pooky even after all we’ve been through

619 Pooky does act against my point above here. I do think that UG makes a great point in 653 and I don’t feel as if 659 is a real defense for it.

Pooky seems really defensive in 734. The phrase “so when I flip town…” really irks me because to me it assumes that OutWorld is scum. I think I’m repeating myself now though.

757 also feels kind of aggressive to me? Like why is Pooky getting so defensive saying that OutWorld has no case blah blah blah. It just feels really dismissive and not how I would respond as town to someone who from my perspective might also be town.

810 is me trying to engage with Pooky and him dodging the question with a joke, but whatever that might be NAI.

I think I make a good point in 816 and I don’t think that 818 is a good defense.

I still think that 870 is a blatant misrep of everything that I had been saying, but other people agreed so I guess I just didn’t express myself well.

I feel like 886 is a good example of how fast Pooky shifted on me, which feels unnatural. Like, I am scum leaning Pooky and trying to talk to him, he apparently hadn’t been scum reading me before this and in 886 it reads like he is convinced I’m scum? I really don’t think it’s fair to say I twisted anything and I never once tried to get anyone to vote him up to this point.

The beginning of 909 is just ridiculous and Gamma calls it out in 910. It feels like every possible attack he can make he is whereas I was genuinely trying to work with him still. Pooky will take issue with this statement because I do say I’m not questioning him and he thinks I’m not interacting with him, but from my POV I wanted him to calm down so I could actually interact productively. And saying I’m evasive in 919 is just a falsehood, I respond to all of his posts.

Posts like 954 I also feel like are attacks based on my nothing, if you know my meta you know that’s not how I play.

The comment on my word choice in 963 is ridiculous.

1221 never went anywhere as Pooky continues to say I look bad, but maybe he didn’t reread.

1365 is just silly.

If 1369 were true I’d have tried to push Noraa with Shea. I feel like this is obvious and Pooky can’t in good faith believe that I would stick up for Noraa the way I have if she was town and I was scum and there was pressure on me.

Ok make of that what you will, I know we are still eliming me today.

[MURDERCAT]

lol I love how we're talking about NM like he's too useless to form a coherent thought.

I agree

[MURDERCAT]

Please read my post friends, I worked hard on it for you

[MURDERCAT]

That's fine I just want reactions on record

[MURDERCAT]

Don't feel bad I should have just played better

[MURDERCAT]

^this just makes me feel worse

I have to be honest I did that a little bit on purpose

[MURDERCAT]

Ok but please vote me again at deadline if necessary

You better hope I never roll scum against you because you know I'll do the exact same thing

[MURDERCAT]

Shea if all 3 of us are town I hope you know I will laugh at you for these posts in post game

[MURDERCAT]

I tried but it's too nondescript to hold my attention, I need a more succinct version. Maybe state your main points, followed by the posts that support them.

Ok I can do this

[MURDERCAT]

Why even preface this with if Pooky/MC is T/T you guys should lynch me ?? ? If you think we are T/T shouldn't you be pushing for somebody else ? Why just accept you get lim'd?

Because if we lim you today and you flip green I'm 100% flipping tomorrow and there's no way out of it and then town will probably lose from there considering there would still be NM and panzer to sort, let alone the possibility that Noraa is town.

So I'd rather get mod confirmed today and let everyone use my thoughts to sort you/Noraa.

Town's wincon isn't to make it to the end it's to find the scum.

[MURDERCAT]

I tried but it's too nondescript to hold my attention, I need a more succinct version. Maybe state your main points, followed by the posts that support them.

Ok I can do this

A lot of this stuff was pointed out by the time by me/others, this is just a rehash and TLDR. Also, this was writtin from a "find evidence of Pooky scum" perspective.

- Early in the game, Pooky only pokes at people but barely interacts with his town reads until he is prompted by Shea in 456 (you'll have to read the iso for this one).
- 399 is where Pooky claims that he is taking a game solving approach and withholding his vote only to weakly vote Blitzo in 514 to get him to interact.
- The phrasing in 734 feels off to me because he says "so when I flip town" which to me feels like a strange, fake addition that seems to be a strong overreaction to OutWorld's scum read on Pooky. Similarly, 757 feels overly dismissive.
- Pooky passes up attempts to actually engage with people, e.g. 810, and remember Kasu was apparently a town read at one point.
- Pooky goes from apparently null on me to hyper defensive and aggressive e.g. in 886 once I indicate that I am scum reading him.

@Shea, I think it's only fair to ask you to look through Pooky iso and point out 2-3 things that you think are coming from a town perspective to balance this post out.

[MURDERCAT]

NM what factors determine your level of engagement in game? It's interesting because I know you are reading, want to stay in this game because you posted after prods, and are capable of higher posting frequency and real analysis even on day 1

[MURDERCAT]

With 13 alive, it takes 7 votes to yeet someone.

Deadline

: (expired on 2020-10-12 14:30:00)

We must yeet someone

[MURDERCAT]

What do you think of Pooky NM?

[MURDERCAT]

You SR outworld then?

[MURDERCAT]

no noraa nm will hammer me

[MURDERCAT]

please uv wait for Shea and gamma

[MURDERCAT]

ty

[MURDERCAT]

that's fine

[MURDERCAT]

[MURDERCAT]

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=83525

[MURDERCAT]

When I flip green, remember that I said that I think Blitzo is town

[MURDERCAT]

Noraa's reads made no sense to me but upon reread I don't see anything that seems specifically scum motivated and I do see things that don't make sense as scum from my POV

[MURDERCAT]

Knowing the motivation behind a D1 readlist is pretty damn scummy.

I'm confused about what you mean by this

[MURDERCAT]

To be clear, I was referring to her whole iso with the second half of my statement

[MURDERCAT]

I overstated my initial read on her to add pressure. Upon rereading that post in context with the rest of her iso I do not see any reason that list had to have come from scum, I just don't agree with any of it.

I do hope that people alive on D2 look at some of the late jumps on to this wagon. I actually think Kasu might be fine, but still there's been a lot of weak stuff like this.

[MURDERCAT]

MC is taking credit for being the author of my post on Pooky in 810.

That was a typo I noticed after the fact sorry

[MURDERCAT]

Noraa won't happen just yeet me then

[MURDERCAT]

Because I don't have a strong scum read and I think enough townies are SRing me it's a more useful flip, plus not much time

[MURDERCAT]

Because I don't have a strong scum read and I think enough townies are SRing me it's a more useful flip, plus not much time

arent you scumreading pooky?

Yes but multiple times I've stated it wasn't strong enough to push hard and I think town MC flip is better than town Pookie flip

[MURDERCAT]

Because I don't have a strong scum read and I think enough townies are SRing me it's a more useful flip, plus not much time

arent you scumreading pooky?

Yes but multiple times I've stated it wasn't strong enough to push hard and I think town MC flip is better than town Pookie flip

and what about noraa?

I think Noraa is town

[MURDERCAT]

u kept pushing pooky wagon but then often would say pooky is town. I don't understand.

This is not what I'm saying, I have explained it a few times read my iso when I flip

[MURDERCAT]

I am more so asking if you think your flip is better than hers

No offense to Noraa but I do think I would before better in Elo. But if I push for a Noraa flip and she is town I just get elimed D2

[MURDERCAT]

Perform better*

[MURDERCAT]

noraa what is your current read on pooky?

Pookys still a TR

but could you explain why you think so?

I am very glad to see noraa being more active, but I don't find her posting to be particularly townie, so i must admit i am a bit surprised by how quick the wagon on her died. Not entirely sure what to make of that at the moment

murdercat is being incredibly weird but I am really not convinced he is scum actually. His play is just so.. odd. I called noraa out for not fighting her wagon, but you seem to encourage people to lim you. Why?

If duppin and Noraa move to Pooky we could do that but there is 0% chance of that happening so we are basically just waiting for NM to log on now

[MURDERCAT]

Oops didn't mean to quote that

[MURDERCAT]

Still town

[MURDERCAT]

I promise not to quickhammer MURDERCAT

Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal

[MURDERCAT]

Yup

[MURDERCAT]

Oh Noraa you are really tunneled. I don't troll.

[MURDERCAT]

if ur green tell me who to look at tmrw

Seriously?

[MURDERCAT]

323 posts, I think you will find some good stuff in there about Pooky

[MURDERCAT]

I don’t recall ever seeing the breakdown I asked for

I tried but it's too nondescript to hold my attention, I need a more succinct version. Maybe state your main points, followed by the posts that support them.

Ok I can do this

A lot of this stuff was pointed out by the time by me/others, this is just a rehash and TLDR. Also, this was writtin from a "find evidence of Pooky scum" perspective.

- Early in the game, Pooky only pokes at people but barely interacts with his town reads until he is prompted by Shea in 456 (you'll have to read the iso for this one).
- 399 is where Pooky claims that he is taking a game solving approach and withholding his vote only to weakly vote Blitzo in 514 to get him to interact.
- The phrasing in 734 feels off to me because he says "so when I flip town" which to me feels like a strange, fake addition that seems to be a strong overreaction to OutWorld's scum read on Pooky. Similarly, 757 feels overly dismissive.
- Pooky passes up attempts to actually engage with people, e.g. 810, and remember Kasu was apparently a town read at one point.
- Pooky goes from apparently null on me to hyper defensive and aggressive e.g. in 886 once I indicate that I am scum reading him.

@Shea, I think it's only fair to ask you to look through Pooky iso and point out 2-3 things that you think are coming from a town perspective to balance this post out.

[MURDERCAT]

[MURDERCAT]

We just killed the most active player in the game who was giving reads right up until he died.
Most of the wagon vote parked and vanished into the ether.

This should be the least surprising green flip of all time.

I'm also honestly not sure what I was supposed to do to not get people to vote him either. The tunnels were so deep...

I understand that I'll look kind of silly if he's scum somehow, but I really don't think that's the case.

I appreciate you Blitzo, I hope you are town

[MURDERCAT]

@MC

I spent a ton of time on this:

---

No one else click!!! For MC only!!

Spoiler:

We will always have this MC <3

Sorry for missing on you :3

If you're trolling me for fun to guilt-trip me tho we will have words after the game. :>

I am excited to talk to you post game regardless of your alignment, playing with you was super fun <3

[MURDERCAT]

The Bulge and Outworld are the worst votes on me IMO

[MURDERCAT]

I don't know how to read NM this game, kind think he might be town, but I was SRing him earlier so just consider him null from my POV

[MURDERCAT]

Still think Shea is town, but if he goes too long without dying question it

[MURDERCAT]

Yeah that case looks pretty good tbh

Heading out now but just gonna requote this scumslip in case I eat it Tonight

Still think Gamma is ok

[MURDERCAT]

Gg thanks for modding

[MURDERCAT]

I got 2/3 day 1 and read Noraa correctly by the way

[MURDERCAT]

Bullet proof traitor

[MURDERCAT]

It's worse than a goon

[MURDERCAT]

Yup

[MURDERCAT]

It was a low powered game on both sides, it's how I ran my mini normal and I think it's more interesting, especially these days when town power is so high

I agree I don't necessarily think it was imbalanced

[MURDERCAT]

What're the odds of that happening? 1/(Number of players alive - 2) * 1/(number of players alive - 1)? So 1/6 * 1/7? That's, what, a 2.380952380952381% chance?

Well we get multiple shots at it and it becomes more likely as the game goes on

[MURDERCAT]

He wasn't in the dead thread though. If you were spectating you should have come and hung out infinity

[MURDERCAT]

I felt like scum played well this game but then I read the mafia pt
Maybe town just devoured itself and scum was smart enough to stay out of the way.
Pooky thinking I was traitor was pretty funny.

[MURDERCAT]

whoops yeah that's what I meant

[MURDERCAT]

Boo I think neighbors are a great role, it is a more interesting VT with no change to EV.

[MURDERCAT]

It should have been a 1shot bp on the traitor

[MURDERCAT]

I feel like this is pretty unlikely to come up since BP is quite common on traitors and barring something absurd happening like having a Claimed Loyal Jailkeeping making the scumteam think the Traitor is conftown, scum would be fairly scared to shoot twice.

If it did though

[MURDERCAT]

The worst, can you confirm whether or not you replaced in thinking it was a scum slot?

[MURDERCAT]

fair enough