Mini Number 2195 | Brutalism | GAME OVER

[Battle Mage]

I'm taking note that Italiano seems to be somewhat confrontational this game.

I am confrontational this game because I’ve been annoyed this game.

whats been annoying you?

1. The fact that I can’t figure out this game. It’s stalled and I don’t know why.
2. I know there is at least one scum on me at the present and I can’t figure it out.
3. Trying to figure it out seems moot because my credibility is shot currently.
4. Being scumread for being transparent.
5. The fact that this game is dead, oh did I mention that already.

This is why I’m annoyed. It ain’t just one thing. And I ain’t replacing out; that’s not what I do, I wouldn’t want anyone coming into this slot anyway, wouldn’t be fair to them. Gotta try my best to clean it up.

i got u fam

[Battle Mage]

Lotus is that a random vote?

town

i'm town bud! good to see ya

[Battle Mage]

what's the case on Dunn?

[Battle Mage]

ah ignore the quote in 673, i started going through from the start and got distracted

[Battle Mage]

Elements, RTP, and Lunar are the only players who have given unexplained reads (though yes I see some explanations once pressed). Did I kiss anyone else with this style of play in this game?

Did I kiss anyone else with this style of play in this game?

kiss anyone

the most beautiful lover-crumb i've ever seen.

[Battle Mage]

what's the case on Dunn?

he bein' kinda lurky and not towny

my townreads be votin' there

i'm a sheep

the game has kinda not done much in the past 2-3 days

Dunn is always lurky. I think I've played lots of games with him but he normally stays pretty quiet so hard to remember. We're 27 pages deep though, so let's make something happen.

VOTE: Dunnstral

[Battle Mage]

Re: 451 & 452
Well, you know, it might be better to vote me out then cause it's apparent I'm not gonna be of help to the town. I've been lazy man. All that stuff I do as town, I just didn't/don't feel like doing it this game, especially on Day 1. I don't know why, I just don't. Slots have been pinging me, but I just don't really feel like going in depth with it, hoping that gutreads would be enough. I know that's bad and not helpful, however, information can still be gleaned from my flip.

Another thing is I feel like everything I do and say is getting scumread and everything I answer is not good enough , and it feels like I'm just digging my grave deeper and deeper the more I post and interact. It's part of the game so it's cool, but it's also exhausting. If/when I do get to E1, I definitely won't hammer. I'm not gonna cutoff the discussion like that. And I'm not scum, I'm just bad townie this game.

definitely feel the emotion here. happy to assume Italiano is locktown - I think Italiano-scum has more self-respect than to run this as a gambit.

[Battle Mage]

BM only you have my heart

<3 love you too mate

[Battle Mage]

lunar martian's posting jars a bit, so maybe looking at midwaybear-slot.

leaning town on Duchess for the early aggression - seems a short-sighted strategy if scum, so assume town.

[Battle Mage]

definitely feel the emotion here. happy to assume Italiano is locktown - I think Italiano-scum has more self-respect than to run this as a gambit.

this a meta or a general read?

both i guess - it's an overall read but i do have lots of experience with italiano-scum.

[Battle Mage]

i'd do elements today if we could get a majority

[Battle Mage]

e-2 i think

I don't think their ISO is great. I think if my reads were as fleshed out as the readslist below, I probably hold fire on posting a readslist because it's a bit presentational and superficial. But if I do post a readslist then, I avail myself of every opportunity to update it. I struggle with posting an early readslist when you don't have reads on lots of players and then not coming back to it. It just seemed a bit like doing something townies do, and because they promised it early, but not really having their heart in solving like that.

normally by this point I'd have a pretty solid read list but I only know three of your so that ain't gonna happen this time

Elements

- 100% town. Likes to embellish their abilities.

VP Baltar

- Highly consistent in activity and engaging with anyone that happens to be online at the same time as him. Actively trying to solve the game.

midwaybear

- Lunar was towny. Very similar vibes to the last game I played with him. midwaybear's entrance kept the vibes going well.

Reformed Toxic Player

- Relaxed, doesn't seem fussed about what people feel about them. Lots of questioning and probing.

Andresvmb

- Based partly on other people's takes. I like the Dutchess/GC analysis.

RLotus

- Most of the shot posts don't give me anything ai, but the recent take on Me, GC, Italiano voting is a great line of thinking.

Duchess

- Towny side of the middle. The longer analysis posts are giving me town vibes. The constant "Yo Elements, stop ignoring me." without using that as a reason for a read also gives me good vibes. I was disappointed in the towning because I did the same thing of ignoring to norweegianboy at one point from a scum read and their reaction to it just heightened the scumread so I suppose it was a bit of a reaction test.

Datisi

- Haven't figured out how to read this one. I think he's generally quite towny, but other people don't? Not rlly sure what to think.

ItalianoVD

- Cannot remember how I called out his team in the werewolf game but nothing has

Green Crayons

- Fairly null. People have been commenting on tvs with Dutchess and I can see that being either one of them. GC is slightly lower because Dutchess is higher.

Testarossa

- Not a big fan of what's been posted so far, could also be from the pfp.

Dunnstral

- Trusting other people's reads about low activity.

Harumi Ayasato

- Do not like their views on me in the slightest nor the fact they keep bringing the point they don't like how I'm playing up. Seems very set on shading me for some reason and pretty much ignoring the other things going on atm.

VOTE: Harumi Avasato

[Battle Mage]

Readslist.

Andresvb: Did absolutely nothing, and therefore is a null read.
Daitsi: Did useful things. Seemed to flip on Duchess (scum -> town) which pings me a bit, but otherwise is mostly fine so town lean.
Duchess: I don't like how they call me out for aggressive language but use exactly the same tone. Their aggression in general is a bit eh to me. Neutral.
Dunnstral: Made exactly two substantial posts and six posts total. Null read.
Elements: Did very little, and all of their reads are "gut reads" with little explanation for what, exactly, pings their radar. Neutral.
Green Crayon: Does do things, and seems to be pretty good at the aforementioned doing things. Town read, and probably my strongest so far.
Harumi Ayasato: *waves*
Italiano: Still didn't do much useful, and seems to have a fixation on arguing with Duchess? Scum lean.
Lunar Martian: Made exactly one useful post (barring "Duchess is just Town, right?" with no explanation whatsoever). Null read.
Reformed Toxic Player: Did a bunch of no-explanation reads at the start which I don't like, but then stopped doing that and started doing more useful things unlike Italiano. Would like an explanation for that. Town lean for now though.
RLotus: Did very little and what he did do had little explanation. Neutral.
Testarossa: Didn't post a lot but made the most of what they did say. Town lean.
VP Baltar: 50% of Baltar's posts (well, roughly) are questions which might be an attempt to cover up more useful discussion, maybe. I also don't like him asking for peoples' opinions of someone voting him, which just screams "defend me!" to me. Neutral.

similarly this is a bit eggy...

[Battle Mage]

also where even are elements and dunnstral??

[Battle Mage]

lots of this doesn't really jive with me - can someone tell me why we're not wagonning midwaybear? (although i do love ya bud!)

Hello, sorry about my absence.

572 - Sounds good
573 - I don't think I would interpret this the same way, but I think this comment is ultimately NAI. Italiano could be annoyed town here as well.

Sorry midway as much as you’ve looked like town, you’ve replaced into a slot that I feel/felt is scum.

I'm not too familar with Lunar's specific meta, but I am familar with the user's overall meta. So I am relatively sure that troll posts are not too alignment indicative for Lunar. I do understand why you would still be suspicious of me if you found Lunar scummy, but I don't think your reasons are too great (for scumreading my predecessor).

I'm taking note that Italiano seems to be somewhat confrontational this game. I don't know what this means for his alignment, but it's an observation. Would like to know what others think of this.

Not really a fan of Andres arguing that Testa was his

second

strongest townread. That seems like a weird point to focus on. Probably going to tentatively townread VPB as well for echoing a lot of my thoughts?

598 - It seems like RLotus and I view Italiano's play this game differently. I actually do see some "bite", but I don't know if it is necessarily town indicative for him (the promises to obvtown, calling out people, ...).

On a somewhat related note, I did recently mod a game where Italiano was jumped on early on. I don't really have any insights on his play because I think my perspective as a moderator unconsciously introduces bias. But this is a factor in my Italiano read. However, GTH, I would put him closer to the scum end than the town end, even with that in mind.

when I get scumread for something stupid or faulty I admit it throws me off and my goal is to disprove that nonsense, which in effect makes me look scummier

Ehhh.

My take on Dunn is that we should let him be sorted over the night. He is probably an =rand elim in my eyes right now.

I think he's confused. I was saying Dunn lurked as scum (to great effect actually) when we were scum together. People gave him a pass in that game, including for a lolhammer D1.

Haha I remember this game.

I'm townreading VPB, RTP, and Elements.
I could elim Andres, Italiano, and Harumi. Could basically compromise on anyone else with a decent enough case.

[Battle Mage]

VOTE: elements

[Battle Mage]

maybe a speed-wagon will spark some life into you! before sparking some death into you! muahahahaha

[Battle Mage]

lol do you have anything interesting to say?

I'd go for:

Updated readslist
Top scum/town reads
An emotional diatribe about why you are town

or we can just chat?

[Battle Mage]

i replaced testarossa

[Battle Mage]

i can confirm we are equally townie in reality - same role PM

[Battle Mage]

but that could just be your laid back style

i'm a real eager beaver.

tell me honestly - you town or scum here? and how will i know?

[Battle Mage]

lol do you have anything interesting to say?

nope, that's why I haven't

you were so quick to trot out gut reads and boast about your ability to read well - the fact you seem to have abandoned that now is scumpinging me

[Battle Mage]

Hi BM

hi mate, good to see ya! nice avi!

who is scum? and town?

[Battle Mage]

I'm town
the best way to tell at this point is probably meta tbh

tell me more - why is this your towngame rather than scumgame? (without just mimicking GC)

[Battle Mage]

lol do you have anything interesting to say?

nope, that's why I haven't

you were so quick to trot out gut reads and boast about your ability to read well - the fact you seem to have abandoned that now is scumpinging me

that was all talk
I am a gut read player but I would never seriously claim to be good.
I haven't abandoned it, just nothing has pinged me recently with the slow pace of the game

there is over 28 pages. pace might be slow, but not short on content?

can you link me to a town game and scum game of yours which illustrates why you are playing to your townmeta here? I will read both.

[Battle Mage]

Hi BM

hi mate, good to see ya! nice avi!

who is scum? and town?

RTP and Duchess town

Italiano is scum

nice avi yourself hahah

Ah I think you're off on Italiano dude. But the RTP-take is a good one to note - I'd been scumleaning that slot. I trust your judgement so I'll move them up to neutral <3

[Battle Mage]

can you link me to a town game and scum game of yours which illustrates why you are playing to your townmeta here? I will read both.

that's some dedication

haha dedication would have been finding them myself, but i couldnt find a recent completed scumgame for you

[Battle Mage]

my scumgame is much more town apparent. As in, my posts are a lot more solvey and thought out and less impulse thought noise and general garbage

hmm...don't you think that's a fairly weak meta position? like, easy to catch you if you're scum then?

let me ask you this - if you were scum here, how would you characterise your meta to make me think you were town? (just a hypothetical exercise so i can understand you better)

[Battle Mage]

let me ask you this - if you were scum here, how would you characterise your meta to make me think you were town? (just a hypothetical exercise so i can understand you better)

I'll have a read through my iso and get back to you

you need to read through your iso to answer this question? I'd have thought you could come up with a stock answer!

To illustrate - for me, I tend to lurk more often as scum. So when I'm town and not lurking, I'll roll out that legit meta. But obviously if I'm scum and lurking, and someone asks my meta, I'd need to come up with something slightly different. If you were scum here, making high quality sorting posts, how would you self-meta?

[Battle Mage]

my voting has been less jumpy than my normal town play this game I think

what do you mean? so you're actually not playing to your town-meta here?

[Battle Mage]

i very much enjoy these real time interactions.

[Battle Mage]

my voting has been less jumpy than my normal town play this game I think

what do you mean? so you're actually not playing to your town-meta here?

your questions are probing deep into my own understanding of how I play

glad to hear it

UNVOTE:

[Battle Mage]

my voting has been less jumpy than my normal town play this game I think

what do you mean? so you're actually not playing to your town-meta here?

My town game is much more reactionary and erratic than my scum game. That is why at one point I went 5 games in a row as town being a day 1 lim. Or something along those lines. I ain't fussed about people scumming me so I just do. Hence my vote generally bouncing around.
As scum I'm much more self-conscious of how other people see my posting. Hence putting more effort into them.

I'd argue your play here much more closely resembles your depiction of your scum-meta than your town-meta. One might suggest you put in lots of effort early, until you realised you could get away with less.

But I like that you didn't shy away from speaking to me in real time - scum can be hesitant to do so, especially if they are self-conscious about making errors.

[Battle Mage]

there is a distinct lack of progression in RLotus' ISO. Started with townreads on RTP and Duchess...and they remain the top 2 townreads. and has been only really focussed on Italiano since a few days ago.

[Battle Mage]

I rlly need to have another completed scum game

what do you think about RLotus' ISO? do you think his reads evolve naturally? or is he pretty static?

[Battle Mage]

I rlly need to have another completed scum game

what do you think about RLotus' ISO? do you think his reads evolve naturally? or is he pretty static?

I feel like you should've asked me before giving your own opinions

why?

and i'll ask again for your opinion?

[Battle Mage]

i think it's fairly a-typical of RLotus - in our last game, his reads fluctuated much more as town.

[Battle Mage]

i can confirm testarossa was town though, so that's something

[Battle Mage]

Re: 451 & 452
Well, you know, it might be better to vote me out then cause it's apparent I'm not gonna be of help to the town. I've been lazy man. All that stuff I do as town, I just didn't/don't feel like doing it this game, especially on Day 1. I don't know why, I just don't. Slots have been pinging me, but I just don't really feel like going in depth with it, hoping that gutreads would be enough. I know that's bad and not helpful, however, information can still be gleaned from my flip.

Another thing is I feel like everything I do and say is getting scumread and everything I answer is not good enough , and it feels like I'm just digging my grave deeper and deeper the more I post and interact. It's part of the game so it's cool, but it's also exhausting. If/when I do get to E1, I definitely won't hammer. I'm not gonna cutoff the discussion like that. And I'm not scum, I'm just bad townie this game.

definitely feel the emotion here. happy to assume Italiano is locktown - I think Italiano-scum has more self-respect than to run this as a gambit.

RLotus - can you explain Italiano posting this as scum?

[Battle Mage]

hmmmmm

[Battle Mage]

i know what you're saying, but when I read it, I see it differently. I just finished a game with Italiano-scum and he is more of a leader than he used to be - I don't think Italiano-scum rolls over quite like that. You're right that I'm great at reading AtE.

my main worry with him is that he's not here. where is he??

[Battle Mage]

The fact that the Italiano wagon hasn't built up despite the fact that it has been talked about ad nauseum might be an indicator that I'm on the right track. Alternatively, it could just be a product of the stalled gamestate.

i mean most of the talk is about how he's town, so would you really expect a wagon to build regardless of his alignment?

[Battle Mage]

The fact that the Italiano wagon hasn't built up despite the fact that it has been talked about ad nauseum might be an indicator that I'm on the right track. Alternatively, it could just be a product of the stalled gamestate.

i mean most of the talk is about how he's town, so would you really expect a wagon to build regardless of his alignment?

Most of the talk around him before you repped in has been things like, "I'm not really sure about him but I lean towards eliminating him"

he had 3 votes on him though, which feels broadly commensurate with that level of suspicion.

[Battle Mage]

RLotus - a quicker ask - who is scum besides Italiano?

[Battle Mage]

Wow, so many new posts.
UNVOTE: Dunnstral
I guess Lunar was voting here? Don't want this today.

you really didn't remove Lunar's vote until now?

i'm gonna keep my eye on you, sunshine!

VOTE: midwaybear

[Battle Mage]

The fact that the Italiano wagon hasn't built up despite the fact that it has been talked about ad nauseum might be an indicator that I'm on the right track. Alternatively, it could just be a product of the stalled gamestate.

i mean most of the talk is about how he's town, so would you really expect a wagon to build regardless of his alignment?

Most of the talk around him before you repped in has been things like, "I'm not really sure about him but I lean towards eliminating him"

he had 3 votes on him though, which feels broadly commensurate with that level of suspicion.

My point was why are scum so shy on voting him when many are making it seem like they'd be willing to push him over, if he is town

if he's town, perhaps he's limbait and scum don't feel the need to push it?

[Battle Mage]

Wow, so many new posts.
UNVOTE: Dunnstral
I guess Lunar was voting here? Don't want this today.

you really didn't remove Lunar's vote until now?

i'm gonna keep my eye on you, sunshine!

VOTE: midwaybear

RVS is long over. Midway is the towniest(imo) slot so far - so u have to do some good explaining for this

i'd actually set the table for this earlier - why are you only raising this objection now? it's not a random vote, and I resent the suggestion.

[Battle Mage]

Oh and BM was also weird around it. I forgot about them lol

please tell me more about this - specifically what was i weird around, and how?

[Battle Mage]

Explain why u think midway is scummy.
The more you talk the less i think youre conversing in good faith

Im off break see yall later

When I ISO'd Lunar earlier I recall thinking their positioning was a bit haphazard, and there was one post by midwaybear which read really badly to me.

A couple Q's:

What do you see as Lunar Martian's town meta vs scum meta?
What about my posts is not "good faith"? Disagreeing with my read doesn't imply my read is bad faith - and you have seen I have many reads and they do evolve over time.

I also still want you to answer this:

Oh and BM was also weird around it. I forgot about them lol

please tell me more about this - specifically what was i weird around, and how?

until you do satisfactorily, I'll VOTE: Reformed Toxic Player to give you an extra incentive

[Battle Mage]

I'm not sure why you would trust fall Tess/BM when it looks like your read is a weak gth townlean.
BM voting me is also somewhat questionable.

you think you're obvtown enough that me voting you makes me scum?

[Battle Mage]

you think you're obvtown enough that me voting you makes me scum?

Your reason for voting me was terrible.

terrible!? how so?

we've moved some way from "somewhat questionable" to "terrible" in the space of 2 posts

[Battle Mage]

i think it's probably slightly hard to judge my reason for voting you, given I didn't go into a full and thorough explanation of it. So I could understand you saying "he didn't give a clear reason" or "he didn't explain his reason properly". But to say the reason was "terrible" doesn't really make sense.

Additionally, given my vote on you lasted all of what...30 mins....what conclusion do you draw from my vote moving? A logical conclusion might be that I didn't myself see the reason for voting you as being particularly strong.

I feel like you've jumped quickly here and not put all the pieces together first, but interested to see how you respond?

[Battle Mage]

i return this morning
and what do i see?
reformed toxic player
still dodging me

will he respond?
or keep hiding away?
I'm currently happy
to elim him today

[Battle Mage]

can we get our collective shit together and elim RTC?

[Battle Mage]

i love that the perk of having some real stinkers as scum, is that it's very easy to obvtown.

yeah RTP I'm elimming you cause you feigned a read on me, and when i asked you some probing questions, you fell away. Note the contrast between you and Elements - Elements answered my questions and defended himself, whereas you just conceded.

[Battle Mage]

Why is he so willing to jump on like whoever's name gets thrown around as scum? That's not a towny mindset. He isn't coming from a solving perspective. He was willing to elim Duchess, Italiano, Andre, Elements, Dunn, me, and you thus far, based on the mood of the thread and if they can get traction.

I often do this as town simply because my vote is all I get. If I don't throw it around wildly what's the point? I don't think this is inherently scummy.

Being willing to wagon whoever whenever is blatantly scummy. Like his opinions aren't coming from his own convictions.

nah, moving the vote is more townie for me. scum scared to move their vote to ruffle feathers. depends on circumstances though

[Battle Mage]

i know we have a week, but it's page 38, let's get flippy

[Battle Mage]

BM u moved ur vote once i switched up my read of the game - that literally reeks of an agenda.

I'm not interested in considering you town rn when you're just trying to shitpush me when thats the easiest thing to fake that looks towny as scum.

Where did I feign a read on you? Quote it. I do feign reads too btw -> strategically. but this is not a place where i have done so.

I didn't even concede I just straight ignored your bad push cuz it doesnt mean anything to me - especially considering you're now feeling SO confident that you think I need to be flipped rather than trying to poke around and see if you're right. the proportion of what you have listed as reasons for me being scum vs the confidence of your read is way off - and that is why I think you are not town and are also partners with elements based on your interactions around there.

Datisi i will answer you in my next post.

it doesn't matter one bit if you consider me town or not - it's inconceivable that I'm getting elimmed today. So suggest you focus on saving yourself, by responding to my questions posted previously. Every time you post and avoid the points raised, is a mark against you. I don't have any sympathy for the "woe is me, you're not giving me a chance" when you refuse to engage with me, and instead default to a lazy "nah i won't respond to BM cuz he is scum".

[Battle Mage]

i've got a plan
let's vote me out to prove all your speculations about me being scum wrong
VOTE: elements

man this is dumb, please dont waste my time with this stuff

[Battle Mage]

RTP you've legit sapped my energy for the game by making me work so hard to get you to answer simple questions.

[Battle Mage]

i understood what rtp meant by widening poe

[Battle Mage]

Can everyone please stop self-metaing. It is garbage.

Got a problem with me proving that im <rand scum due to meta? I'm providing the meta so you can evaluate. It's up to you to say if you believe me or not - I'm not gonna hold your hand.

I actually don't need you to hold my hand is what I'm saying. And I'm not directing this comment just at you. There have been multiple references to self meta in this game and it makes me want to puke. I'm not opposed to meta use, but arguing 'this is my town game' is incredibly useless since if a person is aware of their meta, they can play against it.

That's fine and dandy but theres a point where its a huge stretch for a player to be scum playing a certain way when history/evidence suggests otherwise.

LOL what a U-turn!

[Battle Mage]

oh wait i remember u now BM u were the one i took advantage of in open 799 and kept u alive on purpose ....

lol bad example dude, i had you pegged from the start, just couldn't get anyone else on board. team game is mafia.

[Battle Mage]

yeah we're over 50 pages deep, i just wanna see a flip now.

[Battle Mage]

nope

[Battle Mage]

you can join me on koba if you want

[Battle Mage]

who you want instead? gimme the 20 second case

[Battle Mage]

VPB

- Makes pushes with no conclusion. Not attempting to solve the game. Extremely shallow/surface level reads on myself and Dunn.
Green Crayons - I don't have a big case on him. Potentially whit knighted Elements and VPB if he is town. RTP seems confident.
Harumi- Absent
midwaybear- kinda just nullish

sorry mate but none of this is particularly compelling. 4 scumreads, 2 of which are "absent" and "null". Although I'd say that's marginally better than "RTP seems confident".

VPB is an interesting take, but not for me today.

can we plz get a

votecount?

[Battle Mage]

there are slots of interest to me which i'm intentionally not commenting much on - for reasons which will become clear if I survive a couple of days.

[Battle Mage]

VPB

- Makes pushes with no conclusion. Not attempting to solve the game. Extremely shallow/surface level reads on myself and Dunn.
Green Crayons - I don't have a big case on him. Potentially whit knighted Elements and VPB if he is town. RTP seems confident.
Harumi- Absent
midwaybear- kinda just nullish

sorry mate but none of this is particularly compelling. 4 scumreads, 2 of which are "absent" and "null". Although I'd say that's marginally better than "RTP seems confident".

VPB is an interesting take, but not for me today.

can we plz get a

votecount?

Ok well I've become accustomed to you tunenling town day 1 every game, have at it dude

unnecessary shade, given im not even close to tunnelling anyone dude - the point of me asking for your case, was literally to help me decide who to vote for.

You didn't have anything, and now you're shading me.

[Battle Mage]

yeah im not even gonna respond to any of that other Toxic shit above. i'll flip within {RTP, RLotus} today.

[Battle Mage]

VPB

- Makes pushes with no conclusion. Not attempting to solve the game. Extremely shallow/surface level reads on myself and Dunn.
Green Crayons - I don't have a big case on him. Potentially whit knighted Elements and VPB if he is town. RTP seems confident.
Harumi- Absent
midwaybear- kinda just nullish

sorry mate but none of this is particularly compelling. 4 scumreads, 2 of which are "absent" and "null". Although I'd say that's marginally better than "RTP seems confident".

VPB is an interesting take, but not for me today.

can we plz get a

votecount?

Ok well I've become accustomed to you tunenling town day 1 every game, have at it dude

unnecessary shade, given im not even close to tunnelling anyone dude - the point of me asking for your case, was literally to help me decide who to vote for.

You didn't have anything, and now you're shading me.

Better than any case that anyone has said about me yet you seem fine with an elim on me anyway

i'm scumleaning you, as i said earlier - not much reads progression at all.

[Battle Mage]

i'm scumleaning you, as i said earlier - not much reads progression at all.

That's not even true anymore

so you're saying you changed it up after you got called out?

[Battle Mage]

BM isn't interested in progressing their own read because it would require them to admit they were wrong and humility isn't their thing.

i'll only say this once dude - i'm not gonna respond to any posts which i personally consider disrespectful or discourteous (notwithstanding, completely inaccurate). Your attempts at baiting me are pointless - if you need to let off some negative steam, please keep it out of the game as it isn't fun for anybody. thanks!

[Battle Mage]

i'm scumleaning you, as i said earlier - not much reads progression at all.

That's not even true anymore

so you're saying you changed it up after you got called out?

If there are any instances where my read progression feels unnatural let me know. I doubt you've done that kind of analysis

there's a lesson in game management here. don't allow Day 1 in a mini to last 50 pages, or everyone just gets salty as hell.

[Battle Mage]

BM isn't interested in progressing their own read because it would require them to admit they were wrong and humility isn't their thing.

i'll only say this once dude - i'm not gonna respond to any posts which i personally consider disrespectful or discourteous (notwithstanding, completely inaccurate). Your attempts at baiting me are pointless - if you need to let off some negative steam, please keep it out of the game as it isn't fun for anybody. thanks!

My apologies. I am quite annoyed with how this game is going if it isn't obvious.

Do you find any of my read progressions unnatural that I can clarify you? Because I believe you reason for scumleaning me is flawed and obviously know it is wrong.

all good brother. i'm just feeling quite ambivalent about it all. i've said we can do someone else other than you.

[Battle Mage]

BM isn't interested in progressing their own read because it would require them to admit they were wrong and humility isn't their thing.

i'll only say this once dude - i'm not gonna respond to any posts which i personally consider disrespectful or discourteous (notwithstanding, completely inaccurate). Your attempts at baiting me are pointless - if you need to let off some negative steam, please keep it out of the game as it isn't fun for anybody. thanks!

My apologies. I am quite annoyed with how this game is going if it isn't obvious.

Do you find any of my read progressions unnatural that I can clarify you? Because I believe you reason for scumleaning me is flawed and obviously know it is wrong.

all good brother. i'm just feeling quite ambivalent about it all. i've said we can do someone else other than you.

Who are you looking at other than myself and RTP?

I think I'm pretty locked on RTP now - partly for being scummy, and partly for continuing to behave in a negative way, even after my polite request. I'm not normally one to advocate for policy-elims, but everyone else is pretty chill and we just need to elim somebody asap, and I think there's a good chance of a scumflip!

I'll VOTE: RTP again just to create some inspiration.

If I'm still alive tomorrow, I'll hopefully re-read the game in the light of flips and find some renewed motivation!

[Battle Mage]

grateful if others can sheep me on this, just so we can actually move things forward in a constructive way.

[Battle Mage]

lol Toxic, everything is fine with me. your silly pot shots at me seem to be based on your own interpretation of my play - which differs quite a lot from reality! hardly surprising as you barely have any experience playing with me. maybe don't worry so much about me, and stick to worrying about yourself.

[Battle Mage]

in a funny way, this is quite a pleasing turn of events. often i get too wrapped up in games and let the emotions run away with me. here i'm relaxed...and erring on the side of bored and impatient for an elim.

[Battle Mage]

i do solemnly swear that if we elim RTP today, I will be a good and productive and devoted townie tomorrow (as I won't be dodging RTP's snark in the thread)

[Battle Mage]

and if we don't elim RTP today, I will be a total grump.

[Battle Mage]

i have a scummy feeling about midway btw, but that's one for later

[Battle Mage]

i have a scummy feeling about midway btw, but that's one for later

cool - if i get flipped how about you do something useful and sheep me on my townread there. thanks bud.

with the greatest respect in the world, i'm unlikely to sheep your reads regardless of what you flip. not because I'm "egotistical" or "stubborn", but because:

A. I'm sure that once you're dead, the game will be more fun and I'll feel more motivated to actually form more developed reads of my own. At the moment it's hard to get invested when I'm dealing with your nonsensical personal attacks (and I'd rather be un-invested than respond in kind).
B. This is a strong playerlist, and there are other players here I'd be sheeping before you.

[Battle Mage]

i do solemnly swear that if we elim RTP today, I will be a good and productive and devoted townie tomorrow (as I won't be dodging RTP's snark in the thread)

and if we don't elim RTP today, I will be a total grump.

i have a scummy feeling about midway btw, but that's one for later

but please never ever play with me again. these kinds of unwarranted lines are unnecessary if you're not going to cite anything to back it up.

your play right now consists of hardfocusing my slot and waving off any sort of criticism of your read with "haha idc they're being mean to me anyways so i'll be lazy and keep my vote here"


you're not even concerned about being wrong. you're just straight grudge tunneling me like you fucking do in all your games towards ppl on d1. you've been on this site since 2007 - how can you ingrain such habits and not like realize that MAYBE you're doing something wrong????????

lol dude you're just being a jerk to me for no reason, what did you expect? I guess you thought you could get away with it because you have a low opinion of me - although I don't know why you have a low opinion of me, given you have barely any experience with me and don't really know me at all.

my advice to you, in recognition of my 2007 join-date as you brought it up, would be that behaving in a way that you know is toxic is likely to make players want to policy elim you - and that's where you are now with me - which is bad for your own wincon and bad for the game as a whole. I'd much rather just play the game with people who wanna play the game, rather than with somebody who is more interested in making personal digs. You are a minority of 1 in this game - everyone else is being perfectly nice.

Dont worry, I'm not going to blacklist you from games or anything like that - I'm a believer in people learning from their mistakes, and hopefully this is instructive for you. You were perfectly fine in our last game together, so I don't really know what's gotten into you here.

[Battle Mage]

i will fight every vote on me hard enough that every scum will have to be voting me in order to get an elim through on me. i promise that.

that's unfortunate, for all of us.

[Battle Mage]

zzzz

how about u just like help instead of just letting ppl like BM be allowed to be platformed and not have takes like theirs shut down when they're clearly bad??????

hey if you're town you need to actually speak up if you do townread me because im tired of fucking doing this shit alone and having to feel antagonized by shittunnels on my slot every game

yes, can RTP's scumbuddies please speak up, otherwise we might struggle to find them tomorrow.

[Battle Mage]

i have a scummy feeling about midway btw, but that's one for later

cool - if i get flipped how about you do something useful and sheep me on my townread there. thanks bud.

with the greatest respect in the world, i'm unlikely to sheep your reads regardless of what you flip. not because I'm "egotistical" or "stubborn", but because:

A. I'm sure that once you're dead, the game will be more fun and I'll feel more motivated to actually form more developed reads of my own. At the moment it's hard to get invested when I'm dealing with your nonsensical personal attacks (and I'd rather be un-invested than respond in kind).
B. This is a strong playerlist, and there are other players here I'd be sheeping before you.

you're an ass.

straight up telling a person you're shittunneling that the game will be fun without them is shitty as hell - i dont care what alignment you are. knock it the fuck off.

to be clear - i think you've got a good chance of flipping scum. It's not 100% locked or anything like that. But I don't have a significantly stronger scumread. And yes, you might not like to hear it, but it is the truth that your incessant digs at me have not been making the game enjoyable. I speak as I find!

There's nothing remotely resembling a "shittunnel" on you from anybody, so I don't know where you've got that hang-up from. I think most people are fairly ambivalent because the day has been so long, and it's descended into silliness at times. But nobody here is tunnelled on you, and I think people scumreading you have good grounds to do so.

[Battle Mage]

i do solemnly swear that if we elim RTP today, I will be a good and productive and devoted townie tomorrow (as I won't be dodging RTP's snark in the thread)

and if we don't elim RTP today, I will be a total grump.

i have a scummy feeling about midway btw, but that's one for later

but please never ever play with me again. these kinds of unwarranted lines are unnecessary if you're not going to cite anything to back it up.

your play right now consists of hardfocusing my slot and waving off any sort of criticism of your read with "haha idc they're being mean to me anyways so i'll be lazy and keep my vote here"


you're not even concerned about being wrong. you're just straight grudge tunneling me like you fucking do in all your games towards ppl on d1. you've been on this site since 2007 - how can you ingrain such habits and not like realize that MAYBE you're doing something wrong????????

lol dude you're just being a jerk to me for no reason, what did you expect? I guess you thought you could get away with it because you have a low opinion of me - although I don't know why you have a low opinion of me, given you have barely any experience with me and don't really know me at all.

my advice to you, in recognition of my 2007 join-date as you brought it up, would be that behaving in a way that you know is toxic is likely to make players want to policy elim you - and that's where you are now with me - which is bad for your own wincon and bad for the game as a whole. I'd much rather just play the game with people who wanna play the game, rather than with somebody who is more interested in making personal digs. You are a minority of 1 in this game - everyone else is being perfectly nice.

Dont worry, I'm not going to blacklist you from games or anything like that - I'm a believer in people learning from their mistakes, and hopefully this is instructive for you. You were perfectly fine in our last game together, so I don't really know what's gotten into you here.

Are you simply unwilling to see him as town at this point?

Not as such - I'm mostly being pragmatic that we need to elim someone like yesterday, and I'm picking RTP. It's possible they're town, but I don't have a particular stronger scumread, and it's partly driven by a selfish interest for a more chilled game.

[Battle Mage]

can we just end it and move on? I'm seriously done with all this for Day 1. we just need to elim someone, and all this stalling is completely pointless.

[Battle Mage]

a town with this little impetus to drive through a majority does not bode well for the game as a whole.

[Battle Mage]

nah, it's not a BM-problem dude (you seem to be fixated on this being my fault somehow), it's a you-problem. but you've hit the nail on the head - if you are respectful to me, I won't have a desire to policy elim you. which will reduce my overall desire to see you dead. problem partially solved eh?

[Battle Mage]

Sorry for the mean stuff - I'm frustrated and it was out of line.

Apology accepted - let's move on!

[Battle Mage]

honestly the ATE spew in the past couple of pages has made me questioned

but it seems to originate from BM treating RTP sort of shitty

Like I think RTP is in the right in terms of BM playing a bit disrespectful here, so I think the ATE stemming from that point feels right bc it is right

toying around what that means for RTP's play more generally

lol dude what are you talking about? RTP literally just acknowledged he had been mean to me, and apologised, and you're here trying to fan the embers?

Show me where I've treated anyone "shitty" or been "disrespectful" - otherwise, face your demise for flagrant scummy opportunism!

VOTE: Green Crayons

PS: If you're town, let's chat post-game about why berating people and incessantly digging at people's ability at mafia is lame and disrespectful, and not retaliating in kind is absolutely the right thing to do. I'm an authority on the subject.

[Battle Mage]

lol i just realised Green Crayons was actually voting for RTP - i guess that was their way of justifying climbing off the wagon. nah, not gonna fly!

[Battle Mage]

i'm referring to your misuse of pronouns, which happened a couple of times even after they asked

...not intentional dude.

[Battle Mage]

Show me where I've treated anyone "shitty" or been "disrespectful" - otherwise, face your demise for flagrant scummy opportunism!

how is he being opportunistic?

trying to get me and rtp to clash again because potentially we are both town and it means a scum elim is less likely. slimy tactics, but GC plays to win no matter what.

gimme a snap BM-read btw?

[Battle Mage]

i'm not somebody who spends a lot of time thinking about pronouns tbh - gender isn't something i really think about, you're all just names on a screen to me.

i don't deliberate intend to misuse people's pronouns as I understand they are something some people care a lot about - if I do, it's just a genuine mistake.

I'm not gonna spend any further time or energy talking about pronouns.

[Battle Mage]

this day should have ended ages ago. wtf are we doing

[Battle Mage]

Show me where I've treated anyone "shitty" or been "disrespectful" - otherwise, face your demise for flagrant scummy opportunism!

how is he being opportunistic?

trying to get me and rtp to clash again because potentially we are both town and it means a scum elim is less likely. slimy tactics, but GC plays to win no matter what.

gimme a snap BM-read btw?

don't really see it. i skipped pretty much all your and rtp posts from last night because i was not in the headspace to read that, but i did actually go back to see, and threatening policy is like... not very nice?

(also i see there's stuff potentially brewing rn and i'd ask you to Not escalate)

snap bm-read bm probtown as i've said before?

it wasn't a threat - it was a commitment. I have been in dozens of games here where i get talked to like shit and I respond in kind and it ends badly and in a way which is really harmful to everyone's enjoyment of the game. I'm trying to be more disciplined nowadays with an approach something like:

A. Just try and ignore it.
B. If it's becoming a significant issue for the game, call it out and ask for it to stop.
C. If it continues, try and detach from the situation.

I'm unapologetic about the fact I play mafia to have fun, and if anybody is being a jerk and won't desist, I'll factor that in to my decisions about elimming players. I suppose "policy" isn't the right phrase, as it implies something about the player, rather than their behaviour.

I'm disappointed there isn't more of a supportive culture on MS about people standing up for themselves, but that's by the by. From my perspective, and as is quite apparent from RTP's gracious apology, the issue was not caused by me and I responded in a calm way to diffuse the situation. Ultimately, I don't want to see personal shit, grudges or anything else unrelated to the game, in the game.

[Battle Mage]

BM-to-English translation:

1. you were already voting RTP so i don't need to encourage you to vote. also i was explaining why i was seeing RTP's emotional response as NAI, because his frustration seemed genuine about a non-game issue, so i don't know how that leads to whatever you're saying.

2. that's mean.

The situation with RTP was settled, and you tried to instigate conflict for no apparent reason. I don't know what's mean, and I genuinely don't want to know. Can we get back to either discussing people to elim, or just elimming someone with the info we have so we can move the game on?

[Battle Mage]

i sorta feel like if scum was amongst the more active players, they would be more co-ordinated? it's a strange game-state - not really conducive to good scumhunting for town, but also lots of content with no real direction towards an elim which is potentially worrying for scum.

[Battle Mage]

do i want to hold off on midwaybear? i'd consider that

[Battle Mage]

okey doke

[Battle Mage]

im not even voting you dude, what are you on about?

[Battle Mage]

lol you're really gonna moan about me tunnelling you when i'm:

A. not voting for you.
B. clearly pretty ambivalent about most slots
C. not even talking about you.

wowzers

[Battle Mage]

I'm just ignoring you mostly now because it feels like talking to a wall at this point plus your non game related comment about gender kinda made me personally not want to talk to you more.

lol you do you bud - i say it how i see it. i always think it's sad when games descend into big debates about pronouns, when in an ideal world everyone would just do their best to respect each other's pronouns and it needn't really be an issue. crucially, it's not part of the game.

[Battle Mage]

VOTE: elements

[Battle Mage]

out of courtesy, and in recognition of a formal warning received, I'm issuing a formal apology to anybody who has been offended by me during this game.