Mini Number 2195 | Brutalism | GAME OVER

[maxwell]

Hello. Haven't read, doing so now. Might take a little bit.

[maxwell]

Reading casually through page 10 and this is not going to be an easy one.

[maxwell]

I caught up to where I replaced in, reading but not really

thinking

about the game or taking notes, definitely not an easy game to form reads on, just trying to get current.

[maxwell]

I caught up to where I replaced in, reading but not really

thinking

about the game or taking notes, definitely not an easy game to form reads on, just trying to get current.

I think you TMI'd my slot town, for starters (kidding, kidding). You're going to be disappointed, I don't have structured thoughts at this point, just weak gut feelings. Feeling some level of town on Datisi, Duchess, Elements, RTP, and VP Baltar. I'm not really sure why people were scumreading Italiano, his early play was a little awkward initially but I never felt there was a string case there. He made a few posts later that I liked. I think Green Crayons came off worse in his arguments with Duchess and RTP, want to dig into the weeds thereto be sure but felt the way he was arguing was underhanded at times. I know that a lurking Dunnstral isn't always a scum Dunnstral, unfortunately, but his responses to people have felt rather flat. I feel like I need to give the game a second pass to have more concrete analysis, this was a speedread because after the first few pages I found it difficult to put down thoughts on what was going on so I stopped trying.

[maxwell]

I think Green Crayons came off worse in his arguments with Duchess and RTP, want to dig into the weeds thereto be sure but felt the way he was arguing was underhanded at times.

This is interesting.

As in, I want to hear your thoughts on specifics of this and what pinged you when you have time.

First thing that struck me was very early on, where 133 appeared to take the least charitable interpretation of duchess's post by accusing them of fence-sitting for a rhetorical device "not sure I like your line of questioning" that isn't

really

fence-sitty. Then in the argument with RTP, he does a similar thing where he pulls arguments out of context - 1076 is responding to RTP asking why they are below elements in GC's reads, and GC turns it into a "well, ACTUALLY you are suspecting me because I suspect you" argument, which is both avoiding the point RTP was trying to make (of why they should be low on GC's reads) and is pulling those quotes without context, where the reason RTP was "starting to understand the foses on [Green Crayons]" was because they disagreed with GC's accusation that they were not "pushing the game forawrd"

It feels dishonest in both cases, and if there are multiple people who are saying that the person they are arguing with is twisting their words, it feels like there is more likely to be truth to that accusation.

[maxwell]

I like neither the duchess vote or the elements vote. With Duchess, there seems to be a big victim complex to their aggression, they accuse the people they're arguing with of conspiring against them, of being unfair, I think there's a townie entitlement to that For Elements, I just find the talking about how they're elim-bait day 1 all the time as town, followed by the frustration selfvote at RTP repeatedly accusing them of being scum, when there wasn't even a threat of a wagon, to be much more of a suicidal townie attitude, don't see scum getting flustered that easily

[maxwell]

VOTE: Green Crayons

Can understand Datisi's points agauinst Italiano decently well although I've some reservations based on a few posts I thought were townish, if it came down to it I don't think I'd oppose a compromise vote there.

[maxwell]

couching an attack as "don't understand" + "not sure I like" = fence sitting. it isn't a full commitment to the attack.

this is a weird thing to bring up. did Duchess and I even argue over it? I don't recall doing so.

That seemed to be the cause of them accusing you of asking loaded questions. And I disagree with your assessment, it struck me as trying to make a great deal out of a fairly innocuous statement, one of the few things that stood out to me in my read.

uh my Elements and RTP reads aren't gradations of the same alignment. i'm reading Elements as on the town side of the alignment line, RTP on the scum side. so RTP asking why he is "below" elements = RTP asking why he's being scumread.

And i (1) answered that by linking to Post 462, which started my prior explanation for why i was reading RTP as scum--so, yes, I didn't repeat my reasons but I linked to them, and (2) simultaneously noted RTP's inaccurate projection of his own suspicious play onto my play (the notion that I was scumreading him only bc he FOS'd me)

I don't know, it again seemed more like you were invested in scoring points by "winning" an argument, so to speak, rather than trying to read alignment, and doing so involved pulling out of context quotes to score points on RTP, say they're projecting, I've just not felt that accusations you've thrown at them were believable.

not overly swayed by maxwell's case, in any direction. max, you read the full game yet?

That's fine, it's not really meant to be persuasive and I don't put full confidence in the read but it's what I have. I have read the full game, unfortunately I don't have anything revelatory to say at this time, I'd probably have to re-read it again to produce a solid readlist, not trying to use that as a stalling tactic, just a fact that the game, at this point, is long and confusing and reading 12 people over the span of a couple days isn't easy (when I've gotten reads off a replace in it's usually because I only had to sort something like half that number).

[maxwell]

Datisi, Duchess, Elements, RTP, and VP Baltar.

:O

That's actually fairly interesting - too tired to read your full wall tonight but interested to see your reasoning for those reads, if we're lining up I think that's a good thing

I've been keeping up with thread off and on today. I'd like for us to be able to end this day ASAP because I think we all need a break. I feel like I've caught on to something with RTP and feel like maybe there was possibly some theatre involved, but then again maybe I'm being unreasonable. I don't really feel like it right now, but I'll look at your iso and interactions again. But it looks like a lot of people can/will compromise for midway. Midway is a slot I haven't felt good about since he replaced in. I don't know about Elements, I'ma bit torn there, I can hammer if it gets to that point. Anything to end this day, but I generally feel the best about eliminating midway.

VOTE: midwaybear

I'm off to bed. I'll holla at y'all later.

what made you not feel good about midway. how did you feel about lunar martian?

midwaybear's last post wasn't great and I struggle to undertsand what he's been doing after his initial burst of activity on replace in - granted I have to have some empathy because I'm in a similar spot and the game has not been an easy read, but I can only extend so much courtesy. I thought lunar was very stiff and mechanical, don't remember anything they did being memorable offhand.

Know this wasn't directed at me but I felt like answering because the thought came up.

[maxwell]

as much as I don't like how GC has been pushing the game -> theres a certain like aura around the situation that makes me feel like GC is town here whos wrong. theres also another reason im more hesitant in pushing there atm that may reveal itself in the future.

the way the game has been going - i think theres at least 1 scum in lurkers rn - dunns/duchess.

if I had to have a PoE right now: italiano, dunn, andres(something doesnt feel right here), duchess, elements(just based on them falling off and my flip on my GC read here)

wew the more like i was trying to make that poe the more i realized how many ppl i didnt feel comfortable putting into it ? if this doesnt contain all scum - it needs to be reevalled heavily and isn't useful at all.

if im like 0/5 literally deleting this account LOL

Content-wise, Dunn is a lot worse than Duchess

@elements why are you voting lotus now?

I don't think anyone I want to vote out is getting voted out and I don't want any of the people it looks like are going to be voted out to be voted out. I also liked maxewll's most recent catch up

Er, what about it did you actually like?

[maxwell]

I think {VPB, Datisi, RTP, Duchess, Elements} are Town. There’s varying reasons for this group in my head. {Datisi, VPB} are clearly trying to solve, don’t seem informed to me, and I can’t say I find them particularly objectionable (they’re also likely not aligned I think, and that has to do with how they’re treating each other). I’ve disagreed with Datisi on a few reads (most notably Italiano if I remember correctly) but overall yeah I’m okay with tone/approach. I think VPB has been irritable/solvey and they’re not backing from a fight (say for example, with Green Crayons). I think that’s likely coming from Town.

RTP is confusing the crap out of me. But a few things - they’ve exhibited genuine attempts at pursuing particular slots with no regard for how they come across (I can think of a few dogged fights with Battle Mage / Green Crayons / VPB / Datisi / Italiano just from the top of my head), they’ve been all over the place really (and it doesn’t immediately strike me as flip flopping for the sake of it - and really how does that help you as Scum?), and most importantly, there’s a lot of emotion coming from them (and it feels genuine, which already VPB and Datisi have spoken about). I do overall after a lot of thought can’t say I think RTP is Scum.

Duchess seems thoughtful to me, and Elements I have already made some points about but I do think that they’ve made some good arguments, and do come somewhat across as low hanging fruit in a way (they’ve self-voted repeatedly, openly admit to having little to contribute at times, etc.). So yeah RTP, you’ve SR here at different times and I think you’re wrong.

Hm, aside from the duchess read this is all good and about what I was thinking. Duchess read is a little thin.


I'm definitely on the side of "someone needs to be flipped already" - this day 1 has gone on too long already and things get muddled which leads to apathy. I don't really have high confidence in an Italiano scumflip but I don't have strong opinions on targets I think are better - I think I'd not oppose a Dunnstral wagon if it came down to it.

[maxwell]

Can understand Datisi's points agauinst Italiano decently well although I've some reservations based on a few posts I thought were townish, if it came down to it I don't think I'd oppose a compromise vote there.

did anything change from there to here?

Nope, my position is pretty much the same now as it was then, but time is short and that seems to be where people have moved.

[maxwell]

Are you asking me why I'm not voting him right now?

[maxwell]

Are you asking me why I'm not voting him right now?

more or less, yeah.

Lingering dread and cold feet, but we can't keep doing this, sigh.

VOTE: ItalianoVD

[maxwell]

UNVOTE:

so there's no hammer and you can post but I'm going back there

[maxwell]

VOTE: italiano

Let's go.

[maxwell]

That self hammer while being a neapolitan was kind of gross. Why not just claim?

Just absolutely unbelievable. I guess no one actually asked him to claim, but I would have assumed he'd have claimed if he was something important, not selfhammering as a goddamn neapolitan. Killed any desire to reread the game on my part.

VOTE: midwaybear

I don't think this is a bad vote but I'd also still do GC.

[maxwell]

There's a certain irony in that while I proposed flashwagoning Dunn EoD yesterday, it's happening now and I feel...not that great about it? I still don't particularly townread him but the speed of the votes when there wasn't a ton of support for voting him yesterday makes mea bit queasy. Not sure what changed exactly for there to be a flashwagon.

I'm also happy with a maxwell vote, especially with the RTP town flip.

This, btw, is gross and nonsensical

[maxwell]

@maxwell can I trust you here? I honestly don’t trust any of you right now, and I need some sort of anchor in this game. I was TR’ing you yesterday slightly but I’m not sure you’re clear since you landed on ItalianoVD.

I am town, I don't know if I've played in a way that necessarily would make it apparent, I've been lazy because day 1 was long and hard to read, but I'd probably be bullshitting more as scum.

Ultimately with Italiano I jumped because even though I was doubting he possibility he was scum, the deadline pressure meant we had to vote somewhere and there wasn't a viable alternaive I liked that much. I also though Italiano wasn't playing in a PR-indicative way, which is why I'm so annoyed he selfhammered without a claim.

[maxwell]

Frankly I think I’m alive and RTP is dead because yeah, you could be Town Lotus. But you’re just way off. Voting with the same people that lead to Town multiple times just doesn’t make any sense. Where’s your sense of skepticism?

I thought we were just syncing up, because Dunn's vote on midway just seemed like he was picking someone on the town wagon with little to no reasoning to get towncred and have a follow up push today.

You seem confident in the fact that Dunn is town. What is your view on the game currently?

That feel when the three top wagons (as of 1440) are your three stated townreads

This post pings me

Feels like something that comes from scum

1132 and 1362 feel scummy to me as well

VOTE: midwaybear

That doesn't really strike me as "little to no reasoning", I think it's fairly decent actually, the post he quotes bothered me at the time it was made as well.

[maxwell]

I...actually like that you admit it didn't make sense.

[maxwell]

midwaybear goes from townleaning Italiano in 414 to being willing to elim him in 640. I don't think the change in stance is inherently scummy but looking in his ISO I can't find a good reason for his read to have shifted, there never seems to be an actual case on Italiano.

[maxwell]

What about his later actions seemed scummy?

[maxwell]

VOTE: midwaybear again, this time with emphasis

[maxwell]

Apologies for my absence, will try to catch up shortly

[maxwell]

lol
Cookie Monster's "read list" is a scum claim
VOTE: Cookie Monster

Depressingly, don't think so, they appear to be a gimmick alt, not really expecting anything useful from them in terms of content.

I don't really have thoughts on the argument between datisi and andres, they don't look like scum to me, still think midwaybear is scummy.

[maxwell]

lol
Cookie Monster's "read list" is a scum claim
VOTE: Cookie Monster

Depressingly, don't think so, they appear to be a gimmick alt, not really expecting anything useful from them in terms of content.

I don't really have thoughts on the argument between datisi and andres, they don't look like scum to me, still think midwaybear is scummy.

Do you think elements' vote is scummy?

It kind of comes across that way to me. Cookie could be an alt, but if they are an actual noob, it seems like LHF

I don't think the kneejerk reaction is inherently scummy, no, and their explanation for the vote that came after you made this post is

fine

, but I'm having a hard time finding real scumreads this game

[maxwell]

His vote on me is fine for the reasons he gave, but it is more of an interpretation thing that I don't want to get in an argument about. I hope he will see that I am town soon enough.

i wasn't arguing as if the "lol why am i still top wagon" is the crux of my dunn case anyway.

i am not actually sure what the above quote means? like yeah it's an interpretation thing and you agreed w me, no?

What is the crux of your case, exactly? As far as I can tell, it's that Dunn didn't vote Italiano and made a useless vote on midwaybear near the end of the day. Correct me if I'm wrong. I don't really townread Dunn, but that's not...especially convincing?

[maxwell]

His vote on me is fine for the reasons he gave, but it is more of an interpretation thing that I don't want to get in an argument about. I hope he will see that I am town soon enough.

i wasn't arguing as if the "lol why am i still top wagon" is the crux of my dunn case anyway.

i am not actually sure what the above quote means? like yeah it's an interpretation thing and you agreed w me, no?

What is the crux of your case, exactly? As far as I can tell, it's that Dunn didn't vote Italiano and made a useless vote on midwaybear near the end of the day. Correct me if I'm wrong. I don't really townread Dunn, but that's not...especially convincing?

The point of lurking is that there is never an especially convincing case to make, right?

I guess. If the stated point is just, "let's kill the lurker" that's...understanable, I just thought there was something more backing the conviction and I'm not especially whlemed? I don't know. I'm conflicted.

k since yall prob gonna try to hammer this while im at work - ill just out my theory now ~ i will ellaborate on this tomorrow if im alive but if somehow italiano flips town, im looking at a crackpot theory of andres, maxwell, GC.


but the way italiano formed their reads list suggests they arent flipping town so im not too pressed about it, i just would rather do this in case im nightkilled and all.

This may not be entirely crackpot.

I think it's 1/3 at best.

[maxwell]

It's factually inaccurate that no one asked him to claim, and it's like a "well, I guess he deserved it!" post. Dunn's doing the same thing of course. It's probably not alignment indicative, but my gut says those types of slams upon the yeeted could be more likely from scum. IDK, I'm rambling.

I'll be honest here: I had so completely checked out of the game mentally that I missed the posts asking him to claim, and his replies. I'm sorry. I shouldn't be doing that as a replacement, that's sloppy

that's... overly simplified.

- dunn had a bad case of lurk day one
- kept ignoring questions thrown his way
- had a post around mid day one where it seemed like he's town on italiano, but made absolutely no attempts of genuinely convincing anyone
- lurking up to deadline (i believe he got prodded around that time? not sure)
- once italiano wagon was basically a guarantee (i.e. he was literally implying he was going to hamer himself), popped in with a kinda weak midway vote
- the above looks bad when you notice that italiano flipped town, because it implies that dunn presented a townread, didn't try convincing anyone on it, and once it was guaranteed the wagon was going through, he voted somewhere else, in a very "scum staying off misyeet wagon for townpoints" fashion
- returns day two with like barely any reads, isn't showing much will to live, and is seriously questioning why he's top wagon
- also i really dislike his baltar shade(?)

like is this 100% slam dunk scumcase? no, i can see a few universes out there where this flips town. but like. individually, it's the best i got rig

All right, that's fair enough, when you put it that way, I understand where you're coming from. I am hesitant because I've seen Dunn as lurking underwhelming town before and it doesn't feel far off from that here (plus I don't think his points about midway are bad!). I probably need to quit being lazy and take a broader view of the game at this point, it's just...daunting.

[maxwell]

VOTE: VPB

think I'll probably go here now. Partly because I feel ignored, partly because I don't like the pushes he's making so far.

I feel like a push on duchess is LHF, and I'm not entirely understanding his push on lotus around the 40s

I'm not sure but I recalled (and correctly) that you were one of the few who defended me on rep in. You also immediately tagged on the amished tell there and completely ignored it here. I get the sense that you could make a read of it, successfully did it there but isn't paying mind to it here.

I don't like your attacks on Dunn and duchess, and feel lukewarm on your read on lotus.

Regarding Koba, you appealed to them and asked them to help you out, in figuring out if you were simply tunneled here but I didn't see a response to their answer

I just have a very strong vibe of you going through the motions instead of putting actual thought behind your suspicions and pushes

None of this really makes sense to me, and is not really how I feel at all. I'm not sure what point you're trying to make about the amished tell. He didn't push duchess as a scumread at all and I'm not sure what you're seeing there exactly.

That's two players in this slot who have made bad pushes on slots that are either flipped town or a townread and it's starting to add up. If it's hard to find scum in the game thread this slot might be a reason why given it's had long periods of absence from the game thread.

[maxwell]

Green Crayons wagon was pretty garbage, despite my suspicions day 1 I don't townread three of the people voting there and momrangal's vote seemingly came out of nowhere? Andres flailing wildly against the claim is

probably

not scum, certainly scum can play that way but he doesn't seem the type to go so aggressively against the grain there.

He didn't push duchess as a scumread at all and I'm not sure what you're seeing there exactly.

thonk

No, really, I went back to Baltars ISO and...he didn't call Duchess scum or vote there.

[maxwell]

I could vote Dunn since his vote on GC was that bad, could still see it coming from town, but would be shocked, shocked if {Dunn, midway, mom} contains 0 scum

[maxwell]

Andres flailing wildly against the claim is probably not scum

How was I flailing wildly against the claim by GC exactly? So you thought that claiming Neighborizer but hiding the identity of their target N1 was reasonable?

I don't think scum fake-claims neighborizer without a target, no, because thatwould be completely stupid. The skepticism was excessive but probably not coming from a scum mindset.

[maxwell]

Most of what I gleamed when I got to maxwell posts was that he's mostly doing a ton of IIOA, offering a bunch of his opinions on matters but not actually figuring out the mindset. He mostly going "hey guys I'm here!" And I can't even make head or tails on who he actually thinks about the game state and the people in the game

None of what I've done is IIOA, that's a pure buzzword statement that doesn't even apply to me. Accuse me of having weak reads or being underwhelming, IIOA? Get the absolute hell out of here with that garbage.

[maxwell]

At the same time, I Isoed VPB now and like, with the most recent claim I'm doing a conditional 180 on their slot

What on earth does the claim have to do with Baltar?

[maxwell]

At the same time, I Isoed VPB now and like, with the most recent claim I'm doing a conditional 180 on their slot

What on earth does the claim have to do with Baltar?

The manner of which GC claimed and referred to their crumb possibly revealed more than just their individual claim.

Also, your posts absolutely lack analysis so I'll use IIOA. I'm curio to your reaction to it however.

Pedir: :S

Almost everything I say is solidly based on opinion, the idea that I'm not analyzing the game is horseshit. This looks like a convenient pivot when you saw people were rejecting your push on baltar.

[maxwell]

I don't have strong opinions on cookie monsters content, I can only point to the ISOs from their two previous games:

viewtopic.php?t=85805&f=2&st=0&sk=t&sd= ... er_sort=Go
viewtopic.php?t=85799&f=11&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

and say they appear to be a troll/gimmick account doing a bit where they barely post any useful content and prodge by making posts about work, I think there's decent probability that slot flips town but needs to be policied anyway because they are never ever going to contribute anything useful toward the game

[maxwell]

I hate it here.

[maxwell]

Anyway, I want to clarify that my post on cookie monster isn't intended to be clearing, just that you should not expect anything useful from the slot, ever.

I want to just try to play the game forward from rather than backreading but I might have to anyway since I still don't have much of a clue.

[maxwell]

I'm still here but struggling to think of things to say. Still okay with voting midway, I think. I'll try to review things tomorrow.

[maxwell]

I don't know. I'm having trouble finding footing in this game. I'll try to read more later today.

[maxwell]

I really want a chance to read up before there's any sort of hammer

[maxwell]

I really want a chance to read up before there's any sort of hammer

What does read up mean?

Dgb, can you say what prompted that post?

I said I wanted to try to develop reads on most of the game since I last posted, I haven't managed to find time to do that yet Also need to comment on...everything going on.

[maxwell]

This is going to be my last mafia game for a long, long time.

I am completely down on the game and demotivated. I'm just going to mindlessly vote. My scumdar is kaput, I fuck up all my PRs and get yeeted or vig'ed after playing a single game day. It's like no one can read me anymore, and I can't read anyone either.

If you want to yeet me go ahead. I'll self-vote to help it along.

Somehow, you have managed to not only inherit the role of Elements, but their spirit, as well

[maxwell]

VOTE: Midwaybear

Cookie is useless, mwb is scummy, dgb and predecessor are weird, GC is scummy

Andres, mom, Datsi feel town

Why are midwaybear and green crayons scummy?

I think this is the first time I ever got prodded. The snap reaction here from me is to suspect Datisi, VPB, and Andres scumteam. I want to say that scum probably are more comfortable posting right now while town just don't really care.
VOTE: VPB for now
Don't really suspect GC anymore and idk what to say about Cookie Monster, but we aren't voting out a claimed PR.

Really? Do you really think that team is plausible from the argument Andres and Baltar are having right now? Or the fit that andres threw when GC wouldn't out his neighborizer target? I don't see how the idea of that sort of team holds up to the slightest scrutiny.



I don't know. I'm having a hard time following the points andres is trying to make against Baltar. I think a post like 2362 makes sense, and that makes me want to think Baltar's town, and yet him pushing back against andres gives me a little unease somehow even if ost of the stuff VP says looks all right to me.

[maxwell]

midway's responses here are making me doubt myself somewhat. The comment about him "sort of trolling" andres, the paranoia that andres is scum setting up to vote him. it looks believable enough?

what makes you think scum takes charge / encourages people to vote as opposed to just lurking?

Because scum might fell self-conscious about lurking. I know that you and VPB are generally quite active, so I imagine that it would be hard to lurk as scum, especially in a good position.

This makes no sense. Lurking as scum is the easiest thing in the world to do.

I can and do strategically avoid threads as scum. There is no way as scum I would encourage life into a stagnant gamestate. There's no tangible benefit beyond possibly being able to say LAMIST, and there are huge potential downsides if people get involved and sentiments shift.

Yeah, had meant to say it earlier but the fact that you keep trying to breathe life into the game and force content out of people is +town, I think

[maxwell]

VOTE: Dunnstral

Ugh. I hate the reflexive tendency to call any big fight a TvT but when I read the posts between Baltar and andres, I don't get the urge to kill either of them. There's a mild sense of paranoia in how RTP was possibly scumreading him before death but from my own reading of his posts I don't see it.

I don't super love this vote either but I've gotten cold feet on midwaybear and don't want to try to push elsewhere with time running so short.

[maxwell]

Andres, can you try to show me some examples of Baltar acting in an opportunistic manner? Just some links would be fine.

[maxwell]

I'm mulling over that andres post right now.

[maxwell]

So, remind me again why Battle Mage was obvtown? Because I hate the hell out of that hammer and everything momrangal has done.

Sorry, midwaybear. I should've done better.

[maxwell]

Datisi + maxwell + Momrangal case closed

Cool, help me bus then.

VOTE: Momrangal

[maxwell]

I had been in the midst of typing up throughts on every player in the game off the top of my head when that hammer happened, I still think andres + Datisi + DGB are town, if I'm right on those the game isn't

too

terrible.

[maxwell]

Actually I'm mostly confident in Datisi

Why's that?

remind me again why Battle Mage was obvtown

BM's entry jumpstarted a dead D1 thread

Who cares?

[maxwell]

But what is maxwell doing? And why are they avoiding the inevitable Datisi / VPB dichotomy, and choosing not to comment on it? It is key to the game. And their Unvote of midwaybear still looks somewhat fishy, but Datisi focusing on that both implicitly and explicitly means that maxwell is probably not Scum if Datisi flips Scum.

I'm amenable to your view on VP Baltar, I was not really liking his responses to your attacks yesterday, but at the same time, if there's scum between the pair, it makes a sense to me to hunt outside them. The unvote on midwaybear was because I really did start to feel he was town from his reaction to being pushed after tunneling him, and felt it was a bad vote. There was an authenticity to his reactions I didn't expect would come from scum, an I wanted out. It is funny that people paint that sort of move as "fishing for towncred" when the result is almost always the exact opposite, if I were scum intent on shoving his miselimination through I would've just stayed on.

[maxwell]

I'm not sure how not liking the neighbor target from GC leads to a vote on Datisi?

[maxwell]

I'm not sure how not liking the neighbor target from GC leads to a vote on Datisi?

I’m heavily implying that I think the Scum Team is the neighborhood, and that GC is not a Neighborizer at all.

I’m sorry but the obvious target for a Neighborizing action was me. When that didn’t happen, I thought it was odd, but figured maybe they targeted RLotus or maybe even you since you backed out from maxwell. Momrangal? There’s absolutely no way Green Crayons in good conscience thinks that’s a reasonable target. Unless they wanted to make sure that the target was alive which is doubtful since we had a claimed Doctor.

This is dumb. No scum team claims to be in a hood with each other when that would entirely fall apart if the supposed neighborizer was flipped. Regardless, why would you vote for Datisi first in this instance over GC?

[maxwell]

I have absolutely seen Scum Teams attach themselves mechanically when they feel they don’t have a choice. I’m still heavily pinged with how the claim happened. None of you believed me. I guess we’ll find out.

I know for a fact the neighborizing happened, so you should probably just abandon this line of thinking entirely. I hate having to do that because I don't particularly townread momrangal or GC but the rabbit hole you were heading down is unproductive and very easy for people to argue against meaning it would be a huge distraction.

Thinking on it, I'm not sure why he'd target momrangal after her vote on that brief Green Crayons flashwagon we had yesterday.

[maxwell]

Okay so you’re claiming Tracker. Who did you target N1?

I am not claiming anything in particular, and my other night action info isn't useful. This is kind of a stupid play but we're already down on numbers and I've made some mistakes this game, I want people to be focusing their attention in the right direction today.

[maxwell]

To be clear, I'm literally only confirming his role, and nothing else. If there's no other PR claims, he's definitely town, if there's one other, his alignment is completely up in the air to me.

[maxwell]

I'm sorry for neglecting this game, I keep procrastinating on catching up which just makes things worse and it's not an easy game to read.

I'm especially interested to hear people's thoughts on those two Elements wagons from D1. That feels like the biggest thing I didn't really know before writing all this out.

Gut level take is that that many people voting Elements means the slot is pretty unlikely to be scum.

[maxwell]

I'm not really liking the way RLotus is pushing on Datisi with his arguments but don't have a specific reason why. Also, if momrangal is scum, RLotus outing a guess of Datisi/me/mom and then focusing his attention almost solely on pushing Datisi is classically scummy rule of 3 stuff.

My push on you isn't trash, it is the natural place to look. Your position and VPB's position are scummy based on the flips. The fact that you think my push on you is trash and that you aren't questioning your read on VPB makes you look even more scummy. You don't have a reason to think I am scum other than the fact that I am pushing you (a towny place to push), that is why your vote on me is bad.

Also I am just obvtown at this point

This line, in particular, just isn't really saying anything? My push on you is not trash because you are scummy, I am not scummy because I am pushing you, it's just circular reasoning with no substance.

[maxwell]

I think Datisi's explanation for his hood choices are entirely reasonable,

In my mind Max, lotus, Andre's makes the most sense. Max's play is as I already described but the way they defend GC is pretty top tier scum play especially if they are shutting down a theory that scumbuddy Andre's is pushing.

This is completely nonsenical btw, it just posits a hypothetical based on nothing - that me interrupting andres's theorizing

would

be top tier scum play, not whether or not it's

likely

to be or why it's more likely to be coming from scum than town, nothing that's actually a substantive reason for us to be scum

Also seems notable that RLotus is somehow creeping into momrangal's scumreads despite her barely mentioning him at all before this

(and I lost literally every scum game I joined last year, don't talk to me about top tier scum play)

[maxwell]

Not really convinced by momrangal's meta arguments referencing a single other game - the comparisons aren't that dissimilar and someone being different in another game can be a result of different circumstances - not playing the exact same doesn't make them scum.

[maxwell]

I'll keep catching up tomorrow

[maxwell]

Poor effort on my part. Apologies. Game became disgustingly bloated and I lost all motivation to try to read anything.