Mini 630: Council of Eville: Game Ovah!

[StrangerCoug]

Vote: forbiddanlight

for random voting the mod.

[StrangerCoug]

Unvote: forbiddanlight
Vote: Rage

Goatrevolt pretty much said it.

[StrangerCoug]

Hey guys, nowhere in the main post (or the posts with story in them for that matter) does it say what the name of Scum is in this game.

If you're asking what I think you're asking, that's for the scum to know and for the rest of us to find out.

[StrangerCoug]

This to me is opportunistic. But anyway, vote stays.

Hey, at least we found something to talk about.

[StrangerCoug]

@Mod: Is post #24 okay? I doubt the legality of mentioning the contents of the role PM besides to roleclaim.

[StrangerCoug]

Damn it, I'm not paying attention ><

[StrangerCoug]

Wait a second here. You're accusing StrangerCoug's vote of being opportunistic, but then you keep your random vote on Rage without any explanation. Is that not even more opportunistic?

I was merely stating we are still in the random stage.
Really, I don't see anything that bad in what he said, and he defended it well enough.[/quote]

In my book, the random voting stage stops once people start voting people for real reasons. I think the two votes on Rage for the scum question (three if we count leaving your random vote on him) have put that stage to an end.

[StrangerCoug]

EBWOP:

Wait a second here. You're accusing StrangerCoug's vote of being opportunistic, but then you keep your random vote on Rage without any explanation. Is that not even more opportunistic?

I was merely stating we are still in the random stage.
Really, I don't see anything that bad in what he said, and he defended it well enough.

Quote boxes fixed.

[StrangerCoug]

Unvote: Rage
FoS: alvins95

for his hypocrisy, but I don't think what he did warrants a vote yet.

[StrangerCoug]

Unvote: Rage
FoS: alvins95

for his hypocrisy, but I don't think what he did warrants a vote yet.

Seriously, are you with Goatrevolt? You follow him whatever he does. You did not note of my "hypocrisy" until Goatrevolt said it. You tagged on to Goatrevolt after he accused rage.

I believe Goatrevolt at this time, if that's what you're saying. We only have one or two leads at the moment, so it's a little early to accuse somebody of following another person around.

[StrangerCoug]

StrangerCoug's post here here reminded me of a tattle'ing lil bother (who might have been actually fishing for a modkill when he thought Rage was quoting his role PM). It was really either tattling or he didn’t trust the mod, but still I felt like, OUR job isn’t really to police others posts, but to interpret them for scumminess, we aren’t the referees - are we?
Anyway, this coupled with him being the first one to point out forbiddanlight had voted mod (circumstantial evidence I know), following Goat blindly-or at the very least voting withput botherng to add anything or even summ up why he was voting- back in post 17 and voting alvinz95 just "for hypocrisy" (really just seems a lil light on reasoning to me)
so in short

unvote:Joonster

Vote: StrangerCoug

because I don’t like people just going w/ the flow, I don’t like people tattle’ing (I had enough growing up), I'd like you to go more into your justifications and reasoning so they can later be assessed, and I don’t like scummy opportunism - it may be a lil early to just accuse someone of following someone around, but your answer to Alvinz was kind of dismissive to his point, possibly because HIS point was only briefly articulated, much like your posts. maybe brevity is just my personal nemesis, but I think you can pursue the same lead as another person without merely parroting back what they said, or summing up someone's points in as few words as possible as you seem to love to do.

A good part of this is fluff. I was concerned about Rage's #24 because I'm a picky son of a bitch, but I voted him

BEFORE

he made that post, and I knew for a fact that he didn't quote his role PM. My concern was if you could mention its contents at all outside of roleclaiming, and the mod said the post was OK. I was not "fishing for a modkill", as you said I was trying to do.

Just because I'm a tattletale does not mean I'm scum, either.

Unvote: Rage
Vote: Skillit

for his weak case and misrepresenting me.

[StrangerCoug]

"A good part of this is fluff"-Thats very dismissive. . .I distrust people that just give me a decision and no real reason. was what i said a damning point of contention that was meant to seal your fate? No, but calling my whole post fluff save for one bit which you choose to respond to does not really address the rest, if it did every other post on this forum would be "thats fluff"

I explained what I said was fluff and why I thought so. Rage had a legitimate misunderstanding of how the game works, and I had a legitimate misunderstanding of what is and is not acceptable posting. Both problems are fixed, so let's stop crying over spilt milk.

I try to keep my vote on who i think is the scumiest, right now thats you. Im not saying i hate you or that your a bad person, I'm saying "hey guys, maybe we should look at this too"

If you think im way off thats one thing, but I dont get how posting on things i think are off is at all a bad thing. I dont like when people seem to hold themselves somehow above suspiscion,

how is looking into players i see acting suspisciously an

anti-town

thing to do?

Do you think my post was designed to conjure up a magic wagon to string you up, or do you think it was just a post from a guy trying to objectively look at everything and bring some new discusion to a thread where nobody had posted in almost 2 full days

?

Looking at suspicious players is not at all anti-town. I fully understand that you're trying to get discussion going, but in doing so you're stretching your case on me an awful lot. That's partly why I shot it off as weak.

"for his weak case and misrepresenting me"

if you really think that im misrepresenting you then why not enlighten me?

unless you already did and my "misrepresenting you" was just related to what i referred to as the tattle'ing post, and if you can tell me honestly that you think that that post simply CANNOT be read that way then lets alk about that, but it will really just boil down to semantics in he end.
Also, misrepresent really has 2 meanings, to either incorrectly or misleadingly represent-what way did you mean it, i assume you believe i was

intentionally

misleading - which is absurd as i would have to do so knowingly, which i could not have done without the "info" you provided in post 54 (you were concerned because you are picky, and you wanted the mod to know someone might have broken a rule, but you didnt want any pnishment for him braking that rule?), and if you mean it as a way of saying i was incorrect about that post then, can you or anyone really fault me in reading it that way?- either way

i utterly fail to see how my coments were at all a misrepresentation - care to

actually

explain it to me?

The incorrect representation, by the way, largely has to do with you accusing me of trying to get Rage modkilled. I am aware that I've made enemies of people by ratting on them, but that's nowhere near what I tried to do. I wanted a clarification, not an easy kill to exploit.

as for the "weak case"- Coug-

do you really think im reaching if i say you have so far been light on the reasonings?

, you have the most posts in the game so far with the least bit of reasoning for actions (only 3 of your posts were longer than a single line), very quick to follow whats going on but not really bringing new things to the discussion, fast to omgus back at me with a "well i think your suspiscious skillit for daring to suspect me!!!"

I don't like running around in circles repeating stuff and coming off as Captain Obvious (this is only page 3), and I fail to see how voting someone back for legitimate reasons is OMGUS. I occasionally reiterate cases to make it clear that I'm voting for someone for that reason, but I feel I pretty much have a "cut to the chase" type of playstyle. Not the best, I know, but that's me.

:arrow: Id love to find out about how im scum trying to kill off the town as fast as i can by trying to make sure we look at everyone and that we don't react too fast to the whims of the informed minority.
Also goin to toss in an fast "against the man" here:

you of all people in this game voting me for weak reasoning is just . . . ironic.

I fail to see the point in your saying I believe voting for suspicious players is scummy, because I don't.

FoS: Rage

for opportunistic voting, before I forget.

[StrangerCoug]

FoS: Rage for opportunistic voting, before I forget.

.....
[self explanitory]

I don't really like your defense. Right now, I see you as the most scummy after about 2-3 scummy moves.

Vote: Strangecoug

When I FoS somebody for opportunistic voting, you do

NOT

make another opportunistic vote the post after I call it out.

Unvote: Skillit
Vote: alvinz95

[StrangerCoug]

I hear omgus'ing a lot is a scum-tell. Let's wagon!

vote: StrangerCoug

Will he change his vote to me now?

No, but you do get a

major HoS: cerebrus3

for being as blatantly ignorant of my opportunistic vote accusation toward Rage as alvinz95.

where did you explain what was fluff/why it was irrelevent other than to address the tatteling part, which was about 1/4 of my post and my points?

I said that my supposed modkill attempt was fluff because I thought it was a stretch for a case.

2 questions:
1)Do you think this is not worth discussing?
2)If we were talking about anyone

else

would you find the answers you gave to my post sufficent?

1. Actually, come to think of it, it is worth discussing, and I feel you've defended your case. Don't kill people because of misunderstandings. Case on you is withdrawn.

Un-FoS: Skillit

even though I never FoS'd you—I abruptly switched my vote and am aware of the fact that, as far as should be understood, I was still suspecting you.

2. Depends on the scenario. In an otherwise exact same situation, I'd probably be willing to back myself up if asked to, because I believe I have the basic case covered.

[StrangerCoug]

1. OMGUS?

Yes, but for a reason. In my book, if someone votes back with a legitimate case, then it ceases to be OMGUS, but what people consider or don't consider to be OMGUS seems to vary a bit due to people making different judgment calls on it.

2. Bad defense

Explain.

3. Hypocritical in opportunistic voting

So be it. As I said, there wasn't much to discuss yet on page 3.

4. Lack of consistency (you only FOS rage)

You quoted my FoS'ing Rage and proceeded to throw my doing so out the window. The mindset you gave me works like "screw this, I'm voting you anyway with as little of a case that I can get away with". cerebus3 was being a brat about it, but I have to pick and choose who I want to go after with my vote.

Dude, StrangerCoug, people jumping on a bandwagon is not a scummy action by itself. You can't just vote everyone who jumps on your bandwagon. If someone is voting you for poor reasons, by all means, point it out, but jumping on every single player who votes you is not productive at all.

Once alvinz95 voted, the wagon got ridiculous. What am I, a touch-tone telephone?

I'm not a fan of Coug's play, but he's been lynched as town in both of the other games I've played with him for similar type stuff, so I want to compare his posting in this game with his posting in those games before making a decision here.

I don't want to create the presumption that you're sympathetic of me if that's not true, but I applaud you for thinking (post #71, quoted here) before acting (post #76).

[StrangerCoug]

Goat, you claim to have played with him and seen him get lynched for similar stuff. If those games aren't ongoing, would you mind linking to them? I'd like to see and judge for myself.

He already linked to the one game not in progress.

If anybody cares to go through it, I do have a MafiaWiki page, with links to every game on this site that I have ever been in.

[StrangerCoug]

Slap in the head: StrangerCoug

for somehow thinking we were back on page 3.

[StrangerCoug]

Guess I lied. This is about the millionth time my saturday plans have been cancelled. Allow me to mope for a few hours and I'll return to check cases.

Lynch all liars.

FoS: Goatrevolt

because I feel she did not lie. She is not psychic, and I don't know what her plans were or what cancelled them, but this is not enough reason for a policy lynch.

[StrangerCoug]

Guess I lied. This is about the millionth time my saturday plans have been cancelled. Allow me to mope for a few hours and I'll return to check cases.

Lynch all liars.

FoS: Goatrevolt

because I feel she did not lie. She is not psychic, and I don't know what her plans were or what cancelled them, but this is not enough reason for a policy lynch.

Opportunistic to attempt to distance from your partner?

If you would like to be lynched because you said you were going to a party but instead stayed home and posted on MafiaScum because it was raining like mad, then please let me know.

[StrangerCoug]

FoS: Goatrevolt

because I feel she did not lie. She is not psychic, and I don't know what her plans were or what cancelled them, but this is not enough reason for a policy lynch.

I wasn't being serious. Of course her plans falling through on Saturday has absolutely no relevance on her alignment.

OK. Just making sure we weren't doing some ridiculous stuff at another's expense.

Un-FoS: Goatrevolt

[StrangerCoug]

SC is of note but that same ongoing gives me a feeling he just sucks as town (no offense).

I'm not offended because it is the unfortunate truth. The one game on this site so far where I've won as town, I got lynched on Day 1. Also, the one game on this site so far I lived to the last day as town, I made the terrible mistake of being biased toward one of the players based on his play, and the last Mafioso got clean away from me without my ever suspecting him once. So yeah, I still have a long way to go.

It's interesting to note that, for reasons unknown to me, I've yet to be NK'd outside of Meat World. Obviously, this will change—even if I keep ongoing games out of this like I'm supposed to, given enough time it will happen anyway.

Take note that it's scum-riddled wagon, StrangeCoug's strange interactions with Goat, Goats persistence on a random vote move. Right now I'm very sure the scum are StrangeCoug and Goatrevolt. StrangeCoug's FoS in attempt to distance sealed the deal and a witty defence closed it completely. Read through the arguments of Goat and realize he's only really attacking one post, as opposed to my argument against StrangeCoug's numerous scummy moves from OMGUSing most of the people that were voting him, his bad defense against skillit, interactions with Goat, and tagging along Goat. Realize how weak of a case there is on me tomorrow (A "controversial" random stage move). Good luck town, but anyway I claim

Council Member

. Which is most likely an auto-lynch. I'm confident that the town will lynch StrangeCoug or Goat tomorrow.

The FoS on Goatrevolt was ultimately caused by my weak sense of humor and I seriously thought Goatrevolt wanted to policy lynch forbiddanlight for something beyond her control. I dropped the FoS once Goatrevolt clarified that it was a joke. Before you die, I want you to explain how my misunderstanding of his post where he brings up "lynch all liars" is distancing and especially explain how my misunderstanding his post means that we are scumbuddies.

[StrangerCoug]

OK. Just making sure we weren't doing some ridiculous stuff at another's expense.

The FoS on Goatrevolt was ultimately caused by my weak sense of humor and I seriously thought Goatrevolt wanted to policy lynch forbiddanlight for something beyond her control.

Care to explain why you said one thing but mean another? Was it your (weak) sense of humor or were you trying to make sure Goatrevolt didn't pull something ridiculous/fishy?

Both. I failed to see the post as a joke until he said it was, so I brought the LAL comment up to express my concerns that he was doing so.

[StrangerCoug]

Since there's nothing else to talk about, why shouldn't I throw an FoS on damn near anybody for lurking?

[StrangerCoug]

EBWOP: "Anybody" should read "everybody".

[StrangerCoug]

I only asked to get discussion going again anyway.

OK, now that that's settled... *thinks of something else that should be brought into discussion*

[StrangerCoug]

OK, new question: What do you think of alvinz95 vs. Goatrevolt?

[StrangerCoug]

OK, new question: What do you think of alvinz95 vs. Goatrevolt?

I notice you did not answer your own question.

I generally don't, but I'll be happy to: Right now, alvinz95 is scummier to me than Goatrevolt, and they've both played with me previously. Again, I don't want to say that the latter's meta read clears me (he draws good parallels), but I simply buy Goatrevolt's logic on me more than alvinz95's.

[StrangerCoug]

Unvote

This unvote is to bring out more time for discussion

Rage, why would you unvote on someone who was only at 4 votes at the time to get a discussion going? Especially since your argument earlier in the post was against alvinz. To me, your unvote implies that you want a discussion about someone other than alvinz for no really good reason. And that's pretty suspicious.

How so?

[StrangerCoug]

I like GhostWriter's case. I do not like how he has given up scumhunting and is attempting to shift blame toward Goatrevolt and me. Granted, I do not want to give the wrong impression that I'm needlessly clinging to Goatrevolt when all I'm doing is agreeing with him, but other than that I fail to see how Goatrevolt and I are connected, nor do I believe the "if X is town, then Y is scum" in this context.

Confirm vote: alvinz95

Stop coming up with lame excuses as to why I should die.

[StrangerCoug]

#1: As I said, the bandwagon was getting ridiculous. I went from one vote (from Skillit, the only person on my wagon to attempt a decent case) to being L-3 in the span of one hour, six minutes, and 42 seconds. Am I the only person who sees something wrong with that picture?

#2: Weak. Explain.

#3: As I keep saying over and over, there wasn't much to talk about on page 3.

#4: Goatrevolt shot that down.

[StrangerCoug]

Boy, a lot of things seem to be getting in the way of forbiddanlight's analysis...

Somebody get her plans that drive her off MafiaScum canceled again xD

But seriously, I'd like to know what she has to say about Goatrevolt, alvinz95, and me.

[StrangerCoug]

But seriously, I'd like to know what she has to say about Goatrevolt, alvinz95, and me.

That I can do now if you like. Well, except for you, I haven't written your summary to analyze yet.

Do say what you have about the other two people. Worry about the rest when you have time.

[StrangerCoug]

Ok, just read all 9 pages and I fail to see why people haven't come to their senses on SC yet. Lots of tattleing along (more than once), very opportunistic, and extreme panic-omgus. Scummy as hell.

As for the panic-OMGUS, would you like to go from one vote to L-3 in just over an hour when only the first person to vote for you has a decent explanation? I don't think so.

[StrangerCoug]

Ugh... I haven't been able to write my analysis yet, but I have read the thread. I'll get it done tomorrow. Basically, I don't think we should lynch either of SC or alvinz today and I think Skillit is scum. Details tomorrow, promise. I'm just too tired to write it now.

What makes you say this?

After a quick read of some Strangecougar's past games I am almost certain that Strangecoug's scummy moves early on are no indication of his alignment. This is not to say that he's not scum, but simply to agree that his moves are much the same as when he was town in other games. I had been meaning to go back and look at this for sometime now as I hate taking other people's word for it.

I have a MafiaWiki page that you can run through I have every game I'm in linked on that page.

The games on Rooster Teeth are played drastically different from those on MafiaScum, so don't worry about those too much.

[StrangerCoug]

Oh, forbiddanlight and her walls of text for analyses...

I don't want to lynch SC for a lot of the reasons Mega brought up. I can't really read his playstyle very well, because he's made these same kind of scummy mistakes in every game I've played with him. For that reason, as of yet, I haven't seen anything that would really make me think he's scum.

I'd rather lynch someone who I think has a decent chance of being scum, rather than someone who is always scummy and is tough to read.

I'm so unpredictable

But yeah. I may or may not be scum, but I agree with your point here. I generally don't use meta outside of my memory of other games I've been in, but I don't object to its use. If it's too hard to get a read on somebody, then move on. Suspect me if you have a legitimate reason, yes, but Goatrevolt has a case in point here.

And yes, forbiddanlight, you should be worried when I start playing well. I bet you everything I own that players that look really,

REALLY

scummy are simply terrible townies and that players that look really,

REALLY

townie are really excellent scum.

[StrangerCoug]

Ok, just one more thing, I don't like how forbid jumps in after Goat and suddenly she now likes the Skillit 'wagon', tattling along.

What Skillit wagon? The two I remember were on alvinz95 and me.

[StrangerCoug]

I need more votes please.

Why should I entertain your suicidal wishes?

[StrangerCoug]

I can see where the Rage case is going but I'm still sold on StrangeCoug. I think he's trying to "buss" me.

If I am trying to bus you (as the present tense is spelled), then that means that not only I but you as well are scum and I'm trying to get rid of you to make me appear more innocent. Way to set off alarm bells.

[StrangerCoug]

P.S. What are the possible setups for this game? Since Alvinz looks almost like a lyncher with an agenda against SC lol.

This is a closed setup, so nobody knows who's what besides the mob. I'm almost certain a lyncher would be in a theme game, though.

[StrangerCoug]

EBWOP: The word "mob" should be "mod". Sorry.

[StrangerCoug]

Missed this, so...

I need more votes please.

Why should I entertain your suicidal wishes?

What makes you think I'm suicidal?

You didn't say for whom, so I assumed yourself by your statement. If this is not your intent, then please clarify your statement.

[StrangerCoug]

Oh, and StrangerCoug hasn't denied Alvinz's words by saying:

If I am trying to bus you (as the present tense is spelled), then that means that not only I but you as well are scum and I'm trying to get rid of you to make me appear more innocent. Way to set off alarm bells.

He's just saying that IF he's bussing Alvinz, it would mean he is scum trying to appear more innocent. StrangerCoug, could you kindly clear this matter up?

alvinz95 saying that he feels like I'm bussing him not only placed me but himself under suspicion. That post makes him either scum or village idiot, and he already has a lot of work to do if I am to believe his case.

You didn't say for whom, so I assumed yourself by your statement. If this is not your intent, then please clarify your statement.

I need more votes against me please. Hey, did you like how I ended this post with that as my last note?

If I have a good reason to vote for you, then I'll do it, but not while you're V/LA. That's being a poor sport.

[StrangerCoug]

alvinz95: I don't think your vote on Rage was scummy. In fact, I felt that you were basically saying, "He's not in any real danger, so there's no need to move my vote yet," which was true. Unfortunately, your defense against the minor points against you amounted to "that's not important right now because someone else is scummier," followed by, "you're scummy for not dropping this when I said to." When you just tell players that they shouldn't be looking at something, they wonder what you're trying to hide. This coupled with your rather random L-2 townie claim makes me wonder if you are panicky scum. After you were apparently certain about your own lynch, you attempted to set up what could be mislynches for tomorrow, another mark against you. I have to say that your refusal to defend yourself after that point does not paint the picture of unhelpful townie that Skillit seems to see, but rather scum who doesn't want to give the town any more info, and might want to scare some votes off his wagon. This tactic looks like it worked, since the town has moved on to other targets, but IGMEOY.

I do believe that alvins95 is panicky scum. I don't like his accusation that I'm bussing him because it makes not only me but himself suspicious; however, if he misused the term, then yay for learning the hard way.

Your belief that he's trying to set up future mislynches goes along with my being suspicious of him for tunnel vision quite well.

Dean Harper: Scummy as all hell. Faking a dayvig ability not once, but twice!

Heh heh heh xD See, I have a sense of humor in there somewhere. It just needs work.

forbiddanlight: High noise to signal ratio.

Explain what you mean by this.

I'm surprised no one took serious issue with your first random vote other than the mod.

Random votes are not meant to be serious. Why are you surprised?

You didn't really take a stance on SC's actions, and made absolutely sure to present positives on both sides almost every time you mentioned the subject. Then you posted your summaries. These really bothered me, because instead of winnowing out the points that were relevant to your opinions and arguments, you left all the garbage in.

forbiddanlight does seem to post walls of text when she summarizes people, and it does get annoying when you have to highlight her post to keep your spot. Granted, it's more of a PBPA than strictly a player summary.

Goatrevolt: I'm having a hard time reconciling your play regarding SC and everyone else. Despite noting that you don't really have a read on him, you seem willing to forgive SC's every mistake, while questioning others on small, seeming inconsistancies in their posts. You seem content to let SC float along on the strength of your reasoning, rather than contributing significantly to the discussion. You seem prone to chronic miscommunication as well, which renders a significant amount of your debate useless. I agree with most of your reasoning, with a few rather curious exceptions.

His meta of me in previous games does make it look like he's clearing me, and while I am happy that he doesn't suspect me, this is a good point to bring up.

sthar8: OBVscum. I mean, seriously. This guy hopes to be less annoying than Gimbo, then asks for time to post his thoughts before the day is cut short? The nerve! Let's lynch him right now!

Nice xD

(NB: I normally object to the term "obvscum".)

StrangerCoug: Well, lets start at the beginning. The first independantly scummy action from you was your modkill fishing. Several people have commented that they see no potential scum advantage to such an activity, but to my eyes it is blatantly obvious. As scum, getting a townie modkilled serves your win condition admirably. You would have one less townie to contend with, be one step closer to LYLO, and have a plausible and defensible position that could absolve you of all blame. "Tattling," as it has been called, represents significant advantage for scum, and almost none for town.

I have explained the "modkill fishing" as a misunderstanding of the rules, and I did realize that I should not have asked the question publicly. I do see how I may have tried to do this if I were scum, however.

It's rather ironic and a bit hypocritical that your first OMGUS, on Skillit, was ostensibly based on his weak reasoning, which is the part of his case on you that you completely ignored. You then went on an OMGUS-spree that, on the surface, decreed what is and is not acceptable basis for suspicion. This is especially scummy because you were attacked early on for agreeing without giving reasons, and your OMGUS does the exact same thing. By the way, you are correct in thinking that OMGUS excludes situations in which the second case is legitimate, but the votes on you made sense, and your reactions were unreasoned, so they were definitely OMGUS.

Explain how my reaction to going from one vote to four in over an hour is unreasoned.

You continually buddy yourself up to goat without generating any content of your own.

I do agree with his case, but I was afraid of being accused of the buddying accusation ><

Your "defense" has consisted of disregarding attacks against you, then acknowledging that your play is terrible. How is this supposed to clear you, exactly?

I honestly don't have a good answer. Maybe I'm hoping for a meta justification? *shifts eyes*

Acting like scum as town in other games says nothing about your alignment in this one. If anything, your meta should make us more suspicious of you, since you've proven that you will be hard to read, and that your actions don't always align with your motivations.

I am hard to get a reliable read of at this point in time,

You seem to take some kind of perverse pride in playing poorly, which says to me that you are not trying as hard as you can. This needs to stop

right now

because it is distracting the town from important issues. You will either step up your play, or you will die.

*writes bunches of notes to himself, one of which is to learn how to respond appropriately to pressure and another to find a happy medium between overreacting and not reacting*

No more nonexistant reasoning, no more leeching off other people's arguments. The word "because" needs to become your new best friend. If you are a townie, a lack of tolerance for bad play will force you to improve, and at the very least we'll get an idea of your true capabilities as a player, and a better read on your motives. If you are scum, requiring reasoning from you will make any pushes you make more obvious, and you will die soon anyway. I understand that I'm being rather harsh here, but we need actual contribution from everybody to win the game. I'm willing to suspend my suspicions of you for a short time, provided that you can commit to an attempt to make your thought processes more transparent.

I don't know if this is something I should say out loud, but I do find that, when I'm frustrated and under pressure, I find it hard to think clearly. Maybe I should calm down a bit for starters? (I'm trying to avoid asking for too many suggestions here, and I know what happened to me in another game when I did this.)

[StrangerCoug]

To understand Noise to Signal, think of a radio, or a telephone with a bad connection. You hear two distinct things: atmospheric static, and the radio signal that you want to listen to. If the static is stronger than the music, you have a high noise to signal. In mafia, as a game of discussion, we can expect a certain amount of useless chatter or BS. There's nothing wrong with this, until the useless info (noise) begins to drown out the important info (signal). FL is correct that this seems to be a very popular expression, but I think the analogy is apt and clever.

Makes sense.

My issue with FL's random vote is that it violates the intent of the random voting stage. Random voting serves two purposes. First, it breaks the ice and starts some silly conversation, letting everyone get to know each other's playstyles a little. Second, and more important, random voting provides an opportunity for town to examine the reasons behind the random votes to determine possible alignment or give a baseline for behavioral analyses. If there seems to be a reason for the vote that is not given, that may be an indication of scum. You can also measure reactions to early joke wagons, like the one we saw on Skillit this game. If he had panicked, we might add that as a scumtell to his case. People who vote truly randomly (with dice) or people who don't random vote (by voting the mod or refusing to vote) rob the town of the information gained in the random voting stage.

Do I understand you correctly that your belief of the random voting stage is that players should not vote in such a manner as to take away from legitimate discussion?

Your reaction to the wagon on you was to OMGUS each player on the wagon, and to decree to them what they are allowed to find suspicious. Every vote on your wagon was legitimate, because (true) OMGUS is a strong scumtell. Since scum have a lot more to lose when lynched than town do, it is reasonable to expect that poorly played scum will react

exactly

as you did to the same situation. Instead of panicking and OMGUSsing, you should have rationally explained how the initial suspicions on you were weak or insufficient.

Again, I don't like the speed at which the wagon happened, but now that my head is clear I see where you are coming from here. *writes another note to self: do not defend yourself by attacking back*

The best way to defend yourself against accusation is to explain your thought processesto the other players in a rational manner. Giving us insight into your motivation helps us to interpret your actions, and if you seem genuine, suspicion on you will decrease. Of course, we are all tuned to pick out lies or irrational behavior, and catching you doing that will increase suspicion.

No wonder that most people are happy to get rid of me when I'm constantly panicking and I feel like I have to throw something their way for them to chew on ><

Your meta outside this game has no effect on what role PM you received. This makes meta, especially a self-aware meta, unreliable at best against any intelligent player, as they can easily manipulate it. In your case, your meta is consistantly hard to read, and there is no strong distinction between scumplay and townplay (I assume from the reports of others. I'm not going to waste my time looking up a meta that several people have already failed to find useful info in). This makes your previous games largely irrelevant to the current one, and invalidates any defense based on a meta read.

I'm not against using meta myself as I feel that, if used properly, you can get a gauge as to the type of player someone is. However, it is true that role received and previous and ongoing games are irrelevant to each other, which is why I personally don't use meta in an attempt to determine if someone is town or scum or even at all (outside of what I remember from experiences with other players, anyway).

I would agree that you need to calm down a bit when confronted. Your scumminess could be the result of emotional reactions to logical questions. It appears to me that you get upset when accused, because from your point of view there is no way the accusations can be valid. What you are forgetting is that we do not have the same information as you, and we cannot independantly verify anything regarding your role PM (yet) or your state of mind. The best way to remedy this is to keep your cool and act logically and rationally, so that we will reach the same logical conclusions as you, which will help us understand where you are coming from.

Basically, to use ourselves as examples, you have no way of knowing at this time that I am town if that is true and vice versa; is that what you're telling me?

Note that this kind of panic is very easy to fake as scum. I'm watching you very carefully for any signs that you are anything but genuine. If I discover any, your chance to improve will be over and you will get my vote, as well as a campaign to get you lynched.

Noted.

[StrangerCoug]

When I get the chance to spend a lot of time writing (probably around when my vacation is over) I'll be looking at the votes against me more. And, to the players withholding their votes simply because I'm on vacation, please don't. I'd like to know that you want the Town to know where you stand on the Rage issue, or any issue for that matter, so you should probably have a better reason not to vote for me. And as you can see, I am still reading.

The only two things you've done recently to make me personally want to vote you is ask the town to do so and withdraw from scumhunting. I do not feel justified in getting rid of you simply because you want to die, and by asking why I should "entertain your suicidal wishes", I meant why I should vote you. You've established that the town has nothing to lose in lynching you given your claim, but what do we have to gain in doing so?

[StrangerCoug]

Explain how my reaction to going from one vote to four in over an hour is unreasoned.

Just for future reference, what is the requisite time I should wait before I vote someone for being scummy? Are you really saying that if I had waited say... 3 more hours, you would have accepted my vote?

There's no clear-cut answer. If I got caught fakeclaiming cop, for example, then waiting time between votes is irrelevant, but to be honest, you have to make a judgment call about it. The speed of the votes violated what I felt was acceptable given the circumstances.

[StrangerCoug]

The question made no sense either, veerus.

[StrangerCoug]

Huh? I'm not trying to get lynched, I'm trying to see who wants to bandwagon on me.

If you do not want to be lynched, then setting yourself up to be bandwagoned makes no sense to me. You're confusing me with this post.

FoS: Rage

[StrangerCoug]

Yes and no. I actually see where SC is coming from, since it felt like some of the votes on him were merely pressure, and to have those fly so quickly is definitely something that might cause panic in a newer player. I mean, skillit's case was decent, but still not air tight. SC shouldn't have been wagoned so easily, even if a few of his actions were scummy.

Problem is, I don't think StrangerCoug is a newer player. He's in tons of games, and although I don't know much about

him

, this is my first game with him, I do think that the more games the better, because as both Town and Scum you get to know a lot more about players' playstyles and role-tells. But, frankly, I don't know why he would be acting the same way after all of the games he has been in, so perhaps after all that time it has ultimately come down to an excuse to act scummy on Day 1.

A good part of this is right, and I don't call being allowed to moderate tomorrow being new. Give me enough free time and I cease to have a life xD

Oh, and, nice opportunistic FoSing, StrangerCoug.

What the hell? You ask people to vote you, I'm not comfortable with doing so and decide to FoS you instead, and you call me opportunistic? I don't follow your logic.

Unconfirm and unvote: alvinz95
Vote: Rage

This is lynch minus one. I'd say "claim or die", but I believe you claimed already.

[StrangerCoug]

So we have a doc and/or the Mafia decided not to kill anybody. I know I'm stating the obvious, but I'm throwing it out there.

Before I say anything else,

vote: forbiddanlight

. I hate the speed at which you hammered Rage, and you did not allow him the chance to explain his thinking when I put him at L-1. Denying the town information like you did is scummy.

[StrangerCoug]

I promised that I'd hammer, and Rage said everything he was going to.

No he did not. The post before you hammered, I specifically accused him of accusing me of being opportunistic with my FoS on him when

HE SPECIFICALLY SAID

he wanted more people to vote him—he contradicted himself. If you can find where he defends this, I'll unvote you, but not before then.

[StrangerCoug]

So we have a doc and/or the Mafia decided not to kill anybody. I know I'm stating the obvious, but I'm throwing it out there.

Before I say anything else,

vote: forbiddanlight

. I hate the speed at which you hammered Rage, and you did not allow him the chance to explain his thinking when I put him at L-1. Denying the town information like you did is scummy.

Like what I said to Goat, did you forget the part where forbiddan claimed the hammer? This essentially makes your vote the hammer instead of hers.

I legitimately wanted a case out of him before he died, as he was guilty of a contradiction I wanted him to explain. I agree with Goatrevolt that forbiddanlight was too fast with the hammer, whether she reserved it or not. I was happier with a Rage lynch than I was previously, but I was not ready for Day 1 to end yet.

[StrangerCoug]

So basically, you wanted to pressure Rage, correct? You knew forbiddan had reserved the hammer, correct?

If both are true, than your vote is an awfully poor plan. Rage already had five votes on him, and forbiddan's pre-hammer counts as a sixth vote. This means he was effectively at L-1.

Anyone voting for Rage would give forbiddan the opportunity to hammer. You can't control her vote, so you had no idea when she would hammer. Barring certain power roles, you wouldn't have known her alignment yesterday, so why on earth would you trust her? We know you don't believe she is innocent because of your vote today.

Therefore, I believe the hammer is your responsibility. Don't try to pass the buck to someone who's vote was effectively already there.

I assumed that she would have allowed enough time for me to see a case from him. For obvious reasons, I was wrong; however, I still feel her actions are inexcusable.

[StrangerCoug]

I had presented a new case against Rage with my vote: his hypocrisy, i.e. wanting votes but FoS'ing me for being opportunistic. I thought that forbiddanlight had about the same mindset that I did that new cases means an opportunity to defend oneself, which I was willing to give Rage even though I knew of the former's intent to hammer. However, according to her, she didn't know about my hypocrisy case on him until after today started, when I voted for her for denying the town information with the speed of her hammer. I know that both of our cases are interrelated, but what I think I'm guilty of here is forgetting never to assume anything in Mafia.

Let me clarify that, although I didn't exactly want Rage dead earlier on in Day 1 because I did not feel voting for him solely because he said so was justified, I was more confident that Rage was scum when he threw the contradictory FoS and thus more comfortable, though not completely so, with his lynch. What I don't like is that forbiddanlight didn't take the time to read my post and think "Hey, we have more info here, so let's hear him out before I kill him."

If I reserved the hammer, I would allow the person in question to state his or her case, and then I decide whether or not I believe what I see before throwing it down. Maybe forbiddanlight doesn't do that, but this is the first game I've played with her where she's reserved the hammer vote. The only time I've done so involves an ongoing game, so I cannot discuss it right now.

Did I mistrust forbiddanlight? Probably. Is my mistrusting her an excuse for what she did? I don't think so.

[StrangerCoug]

I had presented a new case against Rage with my vote: his hypocrisy, i.e. wanting votes but FoS'ing me for being opportunistic.

Correction: He did indeed call me opportunistic, but did not FoS me for it. My mistake.

Megatheory, you are not asking the right question.

Coug: Why did you vote rage when you didn't want him lynched yet?

EBWOP: Or, to be more specific, why did you put rage at L-1 when you were not comfortable with him being lynched yet.

I had a better reason for voting him at that point than because he asked for it. In hindsight, I realize that pressuring somebody for a case by putting him or her at L-1 is a bad idea, but that's the only thing that came to mind in terms of getting him to explain.

Nobody can speak on Rage's behalf, but for clarification and to make it universal instead of tied to this game, for this request I will refer to Rage as Player A and myself as Player B. If anybody can make sense of the following from Player A's viewpoint, please let me know.

- Player A asks for votes, then claims he wanted to see who would bandwagon him.
- Player B can understand the case on A, but is uncomfortable with A's request, so FoS's him instead.
- A accuses B of an opportunistic FoS.
- B votes A for hypocrisy.

[StrangerCoug]

As for you SC, I still say you taking him to L-1 when there are other ways of expressing suspicion was foolhardy, but I also agree my quick hammer wasn't that intelligent either. But, if that's your case against me, I really can't defend it. Yes, I hammered. Um...am I supposed to deny that or something?

Well, given I woke up thinking I didn't make it clear for you that I wanted a case from Rage, I'll be nice and give you the benefit of the doubt.

Unvote: forbiddanlight

, but you still get an

FoS: forbiddanlight

.

[StrangerCoug]

No, you're supposed to explain it, preferably with something other than an admission of fault and an appeal to ridicule.

I said I'd hammer. I figured it was obvious I meant first chance I got so that someone else wouldn't take it.

Isn't it amazing how much easier it is to understand something when it's explained clearly the first time around?

because it shows that you might not understand how serious of a mistake the hammer really was

This is a bullshit argument. If Rage had been scum no one would be giving me shit today about it

One, way to dismiss what I feel is a legitimate concern. Two, this is WIFOM.

As for your comments regarding a meta on Skillit, I just had a brief discussion with SC not too long ago about the dangers of meta. In addition, Skillit's post history proves that this is his second game here, so any "evidence" that you might find in his other posts is not significant for the purposes of determining a pattern, since he hasn't had time to demonstrate a consistant playstyle.

Well, that sucks. I was hoping I could either give up the case because it wasn't going anywhere or that I could press it further. So much for that. I'll stick with what I have

Something seems off here, but it's gut.

Why did you feel that you had the right to choose when to cut off discussion?

As megatheory said, my vote was all but on rage. I just wanted to hammer for once. SC pushed it.

No I did not.

Its pretty clear that it would be an advantageous move for scum to quicklynch a townie and cut off all discussion, especially if they thought they had a defensible position for the next day.

Suppose you could argue that. But I stand by I promised the hammer and delivered, and that if rage HAD been scum you wouldn't be giving me shit today. As someone put it best, HAMMERING IS NOT A SCUM TELL

Not in and of itself, no. It's the circumstances, however, that make it a scum tell.

Most of the people who have played with me before should realize I'm impulsive. I realize many of you haven't, so I guess it wasn't obvious what I was going to do.

Neither one of these is an excuse. Have you ever heard the saying that haste makes waste?

Vote: forbiddanlight

again.

[StrangerCoug]

That's cause I don't need a "real defense". I'm also not scum. Point out the "severity of the consequences" oh wise one

*faints from the epic fail of this post*

No, it most certainly wasn't. The reaction to your hammer bears this observation out, and your mention that my analysis on you would have to wait implies that you were aware of the immediate consequences of your actions.

K, so, the town was ready to lynch rage, but not to end the day...yeeah. And yeah, I was aware you wanted to do your analysis. I wanted to hammer. So I did. You got your say today.

This is a straw man. The town was convinced that Rage was scummy; if they weren't, they wouldn't have voted for him. However, one can be convinced of scum and still not want to end the day just yet.

Of this, I can. He had reason to believe that you would at least pretend to do what was best for the town, and there was no logical, pro-town reason for your actions, therefore he couldn't forsee them.

And what's the scum reason? I'm impulsive. I can't put it any more clearly than that

Were you not paying attention when I accused you of denying me information by hammering Rage when I didn't want him dead just yet!? The less information the town has, the better off the scum are.

So rather than risk someone else hammering before you got a chance to, you decided to risk the possibility that someone with important info to give us would be NK'd? As I've said before, meta is very weak evidence, as it is easy to manipulate and hide behind.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! If anything "important" were up, it would have come up already. It also didn't come up today. I think this is your weakest point.

Do me a favor and get real.

As I have said, I'm very close to voting you at this point. The one doubt I have is that goat seems very protown and logical and also convinced of your innocence. Therefore, I will withhold my vote until goat presents the reasoning behind his comment that your hammer is an argument for your towniness. From goat's previous posts, I have a strong hope that it won't be a WIFOM defense or a variation of the "too scummy" argument.

Nyeh, your case revolves around my hammering too quickly, and some obscure standard of signal to noise. I'm here to play a game. If I add noise, sowwy. So, if all you have is that hammer, I don't think you'll get to stick. I don't really have much defense of the action either. Sowwy again. Impasse. I'll discuss it as long as you like, but I'm sticking to my guns.

I believe my case on you is even less than this, but I still think it's solid.

[StrangerCoug]

EBWOP: Caught this just now:

You had expressed earlier that you believe that the timing of votes is a key factor in determining how justified a vote is.

This is directed at forbiddanlight, but I remember me saying something like that, not her.

[StrangerCoug]

Ad Lapidem, Horse Laugh

What are these?

[StrangerCoug]

Defending the undefensible. Seems whenever I do end up suspected I end up in a situation like that. Im downplaying your points because there's no way to defend them.

I hate this. Refusing to defend yourself is scummy. If you think your actions are legitimate, prove it. If you think the case is untrue, prove it. Just don't dismiss a case on you claiming it doesn't apply to you (unless, of course, it doesn't—if I were to present a case against you that "all men are thieves", it would be correct to say it doesn't apply to you since you are not male).

I want to suspect you of being scum, really. But I know it's OMGUS, and I feel it's probably wrong.

It is not OMGUS if you have a legitimate countercase against your attacker.

Which is what pisses me off more since you are going to railroad a repeat of D1. Without any information since I can see agreement that my actions were scummy.

This is hypocritical.

When I started the debate, I was not convinced of anything, but FL's responses and refusal to mount a logical defense

Well what the fuck do you want then!?

Is it necessary to swear?

You spent nearly the entire day in D1 claiming you'd do a summary/analysis on everyone (despite you seemingly ALWAYS being at the computer). Then when you finally do it, you don't even do it correctly and fail to mention all the players.

Hmmph, not really. I was in and out and couldn't complete a good analysis. Also the fact that when I promised it the "player I missed" wasn't there. And also I tired of it quickly.

Then you OMGUS sthar8's analysis where he (correctly) calls you out on the high noise to signal ratio. Sure you've improved since but it doesn't excuse your earlier behavior. By my rough count, going by sthar8's PBPA, nearly 40% of your posts were noise.

Can't defend this. Ceded

*faints from epic fail again*

On top of that, at least half of your "signal" posts have been a part of a rather verbose exchange with skillit in which neither of you really have a good case on one another. In fact, judging by your posts, you've barely considered anyone else as scum, choosing instead to zero in on skillit and throw stones at him from your glass house. And no, your posts aren't really easier to read than skillit's despite your own claim that they are.

Well, I'll say what I said in my very first game here. When skillit flips scum and I flip town, I reserve and i told you so. It's annoying, I know, to have to deal with assertations like that...but I'm right.

One, how do you know that skillit is scum? Two, this looks a lot like an appeal to authority to me.

The only real departure from this tunnel vision came when you said that Rage seemed equally as scummy as skillit to you, based on nothing but my own reasons (which started the wagon rolling), and that you wouldn't be against his lynch. Then, at approximately the same time as you initially called the hammer on Rage, you also dropped this gem to cover your ass:

Despite being suspicious on its own merit, this statement is also inconsistant with your D2 actions as Rage did turn up town and yet you're still zeroed in on skillit.

YAY! BULLSHIT POINT! I WAS WORRIED YOU WERE AIRTIGHT! HAHAHA, Rage != skillit. The scumminess of one is NOT dependant on the scumminess of the other! I never SAID such either.

(sorry, felt good to have a point I could defend)

Good point. This kinda reads as a horse laugh, but I can't exactly tell against whom.

Why did you feel that you had the right to choose when to cut off discussion?

Cause I called it? This is a loaded question, and you know it. Looks like you play with logical fallacies too

One problem with calling it a loaded question: you

DID

cut off discussion.

Then there was the open discussion between Mega and Skillit, and Rage's discussion of SC. That's 6/12 players who were not ready for the day to end, even though three of them were voting Rage.

Well, I didn't realize that, and I probably didn't care enough since I hate days that go on forever. One of my pet peeves. I actually missed most of these interplays, and I hold that they should have told me to hold the hammer. But, it's done now. I can't really defend that except by ignorance which can't be proven either way.

I'd ask why it seems like you have to be told everything, but I'm that type of person too. The failure to pay attention to what's going on is not an excuse, though.

Ad Lapidem through sarcasm, but since you asked so nicely, you cut off any important info Rage may have wanted to give us (like who he suspected), and opened the potential for a scumkill which would deprive us of something important (for example, Skillit-scum could have NK'd Mega to cut off the conversation they were having, or you-scum could have NK'd me to prevent the posting of my PBPA, or panicky GW-scum could have killed Mega for being suspicious of him). The apparent stroke of luck we've had in no way diminishes the risk.

Fine, point ceded, I fucked up. I mean, what do you expect me to say?

Be careful with pessimism.

[StrangerCoug]

EBWOP:

The only real departure from this tunnel vision came when you said that Rage seemed equally as scummy as skillit to you, based on nothing but my own reasons (which started the wagon rolling), and that you wouldn't be against his lynch. Then, at approximately the same time as you initially called the hammer on Rage, you also dropped this gem to cover your ass:

Ignore this.

[StrangerCoug]

This is hypocritical.

How so?

There are a lot of unanswered questions about Rage thanks to you, and there may damn well be a lot of unanswered questions about you thanks to sthar8 if he hammers you the same way you hammered Rage.

[StrangerCoug]

Goatrevolt, who do you think is most suspicious at this point and why?

[StrangerCoug]

Mod: I am having technical difficulties with my Internet connection right now, and I'm posting from the library. I'm not going to call myself V/LA just yet, but if I take too long between posts, go ahead and replace me outright.

[StrangerCoug]

Mod: The technical difficulties mentioned in post #483 have been resolved. Thanks.

I'm already voting for forbiddanlight, but it would be nice if I had the chance to look at them before anybody hammered please. I don't mind her lynch, though.

[StrangerCoug]

Post 66, StrangerCoug: Explain why the people who voted for you were being opportunistic? Surely not everyone who voted for you was scum, correct?

As I said, it's the time span. I probably would've worried anyway were my wagon slower, but something was wrong with that picture.

Post 150, StrangerCoug: So you think alvinz is scummier than me because I'm defending you and he's attacking you?

This is not strictly correct, but I did believe you more than alvinz95 (hence my worrying about getting buddying accusations, which ended up happening), and I still think you're town and he's scum. I don't think he's as guilty of tunnel vision as previously, but I have bigger fish to fry at the moment.

Post 300, StrangerCoug: Freudian slip!

So, I really think both GhostWriter and Forbiddan are scum, and I saw a few places that would support this pairing, but I'm not interested in that until one of them is dead and has shown up scum as it's meaningless until that point.

Pro tip. Don't clear Ghost when I flip. I beg of you that much.

3. Cerebus3/Megatheory. Both of these rely on my assumption of Forbiddan as scum, which is why I won't press them for now. Cerebus is because I feel the Forbiddan push on him and then instant back off seems fishy (and I'm decidedly neutral on his posts throughout the game anyway). Megatheory is because of his push to place the hammer suspicion on StrangerCoug rather than Forbiddan. The rest of his play had me leaning town on him yesterday, but after review I'm decidedly neutral.

Again, you DAMN well better not clear them when I flip.

Why would he do so given we all have an equal chance of being scum, especially at this stage of the game?

Also, to take myself to L-1 so I don't quick hammer as I might do it I were frustrated,

unvote, vote forbiddanlight

Hello!?

Oh, to be fair, and this will be OMGUSy as hell, and likely not paid heed...look at goat closely when you get a chance. He's feeling more like his scummy meta than his townie. The way the case feels, really. I mean, I can't really explain it...just...keep an eye on him, please.

Please do not set up future lynches based on your own. Also, I thought sthar8 told you not to use meta as evidence of alignment.

I'm at L-3 again. Apparently no one liked me being to close to lynch. Cowards as usual.

Name-calling gets you nowhere.

[StrangerCoug]

SC has limited access right now.

Not anymore. I had difficulties logging on because the Internet company hadn't gotten the money for the bill yet. I can get on now.

[StrangerCoug]

But you just can't base your case on meta and "gut feelings".

I know this will sound stupid and scummy, but I really don't care. I'm a sucky case maker. I'd rather have someone who's actually capable of making something stick case GR. I might try if I feel like it, but seriously? Anything I say won't stick, and will make him harder to lynch later.

If I do not have the right to take pride in being a horrendous Mafia player, then neither do you. You've also reduced yourself to pessimism, which doesn't bode well.

[StrangerCoug]

We're also planning to lynch me! Isn't that so exciting mod? I'm psyched to see my imminent death at the hands of the town.

Never have I seen anybody glorify their own lynch.

[StrangerCoug]

In fact, it is against the rules to quote that in my signature because it's from an ongoing? Cause I like that . (The never have I see from SC )

I believe so, but once it's over, not only am I putting that in the quotes section on my Wiki, but I'm nominating you for a title based on it. I'll see to it that both of these happen.

[StrangerCoug]

Plus a vote on Cerb. So you find goat, skillit, cerb, me, and maybe alvinz scummy? I think that means we're in LYLO.

Actually, I said you weren't scummy. I also said cerb wasn't really. That leaves goat and skillit. You may have a case, but don't be fucktarded and misrepresent me.

I can't find anything by you that says you think sthar8 is town, and your constantly attacking him doesn't look like it either. Also, if you don't think cerebus3 is that scummy, then why did you vote him in the first place?

As for your self-vote, I think it best that we keep you off L-1 unless your vote is already on the wagon until we're ready for you to die (read: our lurkers and replacements have checked in). You've already admitted your intent to self-hammer if allowed to, and I think that we should avoid giving you the chance.

Hey, dude, are you thinking ok? Because if my vote is on me, and I'm at L-1, I don't think removing my vote and revoting myself would work. And I only said I MIGHT self hammer to piss everyone off. Please stick to facts.

It is not a pro-town move to self-hammer at all let alone out of spite for everyone else, so please don't do it.

I'm not going to go into the hypocrisy of your suspicions, since others have addressed the issue and I don't want to beat a dead horse. As for the disinterest in scumhunting,

Wow, that was like page 6 when NOTHING WAS FUCKING HAPPENING! That's not a proof

The profanity is unnecessary and does not add credibility to your case. You also can't hunt scum by voting yourself.

He went from "probable town" to "likely scum" in three days, and the only thing that changed as far as I can see is his newfound suspicion of you.

I revisited things. And actually, it was his case on me that made me feel different. But not because of the OMGUS, but because of the way he presented it. I still stand by skillit strongest though.

How does the way he presented the case on you make you believe he is scum?

Very good use of quotes out of order...but such misrepresentation is scummy. It might not make you scum, because I think you are just trying to push for more momentum on this wagon, but as I said, stick to facts, not fantasies by switching the order of quotes in a decietful way.

I don't know why he does it, but I actually don't mind as long as I understand him. Maybe there's an order he does it that makes better sense to him than chronologically. Quoting out of order is not scummy per se, though I can see some ways how doing so can be manipulative (e.g. trying to make someone's D2 actions look like they caused their D1 actions, which makes no sense regardless of presentation order).

[StrangerCoug]

That's because I am done with this game basically. If something saves me, all well and good. I've put out all the info you should need though.

We would all much rather you stick around until it's the end of you, but if you must get yourself out of the game, then ask the mod to replace you. Don't be a pain in the neck to everybody and threaten to put yourself out of your own misery.

[StrangerCoug]

That's it, forbiddanlight, I have ceased to understand you anymore.

[StrangerCoug]

That's it, forbiddanlight, I have ceased to understand you anymore.

Wait, you thought you could understand me? Ah, what a laugh. Well, that's the problem with my playstyle. Half the time my apparent randomness works well in my favor. The other half...well, this is the result.

You're crazy regardless.

[StrangerCoug]

What all is forbiddanlight guilty of? OMGUS, self-voting, straw man arguments,

argumenta ad hominem

, blaming others for her actions... Yeah. I'm ready to get rid of her.

Confirm vote: forbiddanlight

[StrangerCoug]

I see a forbiddanlight and StrangeCoug team, or a StrangeCoug/Goat, or a Goat/FL.

Explain why you think each connection is possible.

[StrangerCoug]

I'll go ahead and

unvote: forbiddanlight

as well. I don't like her actions, but I feel my vote would be better elsewhere pending what comes up during her absence.

[StrangerCoug]

Wait, SC, why did you unvote? I'm just keeping her off L-1 so that B&B can have a chance to catch up on the game.

She's the best play in my opinion, but I don't want to develop tunnel vision on her.

[StrangerCoug]

Not to mention that I think we've exhausted her case at this point.

[StrangerCoug]

That's it, forbiddanlight, I have ceased to understand you anymore.

Sounds like scumtalk.

Explain, because I really don't see how this is so. forbiddanlight is VERY hard to follow.

What all is forbiddanlight guilty of? OMGUS, self-voting, straw man arguments,

argumenta ad hominem

, blaming others for her actions... Yeah. I'm ready to get rid of her.

Confirm vote: forbiddanlight

"Yeah, I'm ready to get rid of her." The wording is just awkward and sounds like a buddy saying, yeah i'm just going to kill my other buddy. maybe its just my mental paradigm, but it sounds very suspicious.

Well, your mental paradigm is affected by tunnel vision, as you've tried multiple times since Day 1 to frame me. I really didn't like it when you accused me of bussing you, as in doing so you suggested that both of us are scum.

[StrangerCoug]

Hello.

Hello. Now speak.

FoS: cerebus3

for making filler posts.

[StrangerCoug]

I must admit, that you'vebeen less suspicious as compared to SC and FL, but I still have to consider it because of your interactions with SC. They were not random posts, as I was looking for evidence to support my theory, which was hunting down who is scum with SC.

Tunnel vision again, eh?

[StrangerCoug]

I must admit, that you'vebeen less suspicious as compared to SC and FL, but I still have to consider it because of your interactions with SC. They were not random posts, as I was looking for evidence to support my theory, which was hunting down who is scum with SC.

Tunnel vision again, eh?

My tunnel vision is right.

Don't be so damn sure. It's also known as confirmation bias for a reason.

[StrangerCoug]

Hello. Now speak.

About...?

One of the cases going around. If there isn't one you like, present one against somebody (within reason and backed up by evidence). If you must do so, ask questions about why people think what they do. Get out of the back seat.

[StrangerCoug]

(2:11 mountainous is definitely a fair setup, imo).

2 + 11 = 13. We started with 12 players.

(2:11 mountainous is definitely a fair setup, imo).

Rolefishing?

One, how is speculating about the number of scum vs. town rolefishing?

Two, how is mentioning that he thinks a mountainous setup is fair is rolefishing, especially since in a mountainous game, power roles do not exist?

[StrangerCoug]

No we don't.
Though it makes it far less likely that this set up is not mountanious, only scum and the powerroles we may have know if this is mountainous or not.

Um...what? And also, how does no kill fit into mountainous again?

Scum can decide not to kill anybody, which helps if they fakeclaim doctor.

[StrangerCoug]

That's it, forbiddanlight, I have ceased to understand you anymore.

Sounds like scumtalk.

Why would a townie push on someone they can't understand? It makes more sense to take the time to get something they can understand out of their target and make a decision on that. It's more likely that SC is saying "sorry, buddy, I have to bus you now."

It is not scummy to say that someone or something cannot be understand; in fact, I believe it is correct to address it. forbiddanlight was being continuously confusing and unhelpful to me, however, so I simply gave up and decided that she was scum, although she doesn't have my vote anymore.

Wait, you thought you could understand me? Ah, what a laugh. Well, that's the problem with my playstyle. Half the time my apparent randomness works well in my favor. The other half...well, this is the result.

Casual reply like 2 buddies talking, like saying "sorry I failed you"

alvinz hit it on the head.

Provide your own input please. Don't merely agree with a statement—back it up.

What all is forbiddanlight guilty of? OMGUS, self-voting, straw man arguments,

argumenta ad hominem

, blaming others for her actions... Yeah. I'm ready to get rid of her.

Confirm vote: forbiddanlight

"Yeah, I'm ready to get rid of her." The wording is just awkward and sounds like a buddy saying, yeah i'm just going to kill my other buddy. maybe its just my mental paradigm, but it sounds very suspicious.

alvinz hit it again.[/quote]
Again, provide your own input. Who's buddying here, forbiddanlight and me or you and alvinz95?

I know what I am, but if I were someone else and I thought the "I'm ready to get rid of her" statement was scummy (which makes sense), it would read more like bussing than buddying, and the real me does want forbiddanlight lynched.

So how could any of this be buddying?

Your argument seems to be that you see it as such, so why are you asking this?

[StrangerCoug]

EBWOP:

It is not scummy to say that someone or something cannot be understand;

"Understand" should be "understood".

[StrangerCoug]

One, how is speculating about the number of scum vs. town rolefishing?

Two, how is mentioning that he thinks a mountainous setup is fair is rolefishing, especially since in a mountainous game, power roles do not exist?

This is really the strong reaction I was thinking of. But the point is, SC seems really concerned about B&B.

Was SC the one that was defending FL, also?

If you're talking about Day 2, then no.

[StrangerCoug]

Missed this since it wasn't clear it was directed at me:

No we don't.
Though it makes it far less likely that this set up is not mountanious, only scum and the powerroles we may have know if this is mountainous or not.

Um...what? And also, how does no kill fit into mountainous again?

Scum can decide not to kill anybody, which helps if they fakeclaim doctor.

No killing is dumb.

Why are you reacting so strongly to questions about B&B?

The clarification post I just caught:

One, how is speculating about the number of scum vs. town rolefishing?

Two, how is mentioning that he thinks a mountainous setup is fair is rolefishing, especially since in a mountainous game, power roles do not exist?

This is really the strong reaction I was thinking of. But the point is, SC seems really concerned about B&B.

Speculating about the number of scum vs. town is more outguessing the mod than rolefishing. You also can't rolefish (successfully) in a mountainous game. That's why I asked those.

[StrangerCoug]

alvinz95, do not inject your own words into other people's quote boxes. It makes them harder to read.

I love how you admit to severe tunnel vision, too.

Confirm vote: alvinz95.

[StrangerCoug]

Wait, I thought you were voting me? When did you switch? I guess I missed something?

Here is my unvote for you. I thought I already had a vote out on alvinz95, but apparently not until now.

However, I still think you're scum, and my vote would be on you if this were deadline, but I've pretty much exhausted your case. I don't see getting anything more out of you anytime soon. alvinz95, on the other hand, seems hell-bent on connecting the two of us and goat together the cheapest way he can do so.

[StrangerCoug]

*sigh* this just proves more that you are partner with FL. THis is about the 2nd time you confirmed voted me. You are backing away from the wagon because,

FORBIDDENLIGHT IS YOUR FREAKIN' PARTNER!

Oh, yeah, nevermind. You said that you think he is scum still which really makes me think that you aren't huh?

I'm not unvoting you until you snap out of your tunnel vision. The more you try to frame me, the more you bankrupt your credibility, so stop it.

[StrangerCoug]

There are much better ways to play Mafia than with your gut. Perhaps you should look into them.

[StrangerCoug]

There is equally strong evidence (perhaps stronger) of scum buddying.

Learn the damn difference between buddying and distancing please.

Your posts of "your house of cards will fall" is chipping at me. Its annoying.

The fact of the matter is that's it's going to.

[StrangerCoug]

No, buddying ≠ distancing. Buddying = siding up with somebody without a good reason. Distancing = attempting to dissociate with other scum to appear innocent.

Nice plan. Accuse forbiddanlight and me of the wrong thing, then being Goatrevolt into my case in an attempt to make it related (which it barely is), and then use that to connect Goatrevolt and forbiddanlight. Not going to work.

[StrangerCoug]

The fact of the matter is that's it's going to.

You profess to think me scum. Why will his "house of cards" fall if this is true? While you know your alignment and it may be the same as mine (I lean that way), I seem to be the base of the case unless I missed something. Meaning, that if my flip were scum, it'd support his case a lot. If my flip is town, he apparently has buddying between you and Goat to fall back on.

I skimmed past the "house of cards" comment and thought it was a reference to his tying our cases together, which I realize it's not. Sorry.

Even though I still have good reason to believe you are scum, I now think alvinz95 is scummier than you, so you can stop being pessimistic.

[StrangerCoug]

Mod: My name is not spelled with a space.

[StrangerCoug]

EBWOP: Also, I didn't re-vote alvinz95 until post #706. I didn't have a vote out at #690, contrary to what I thought.

[StrangerCoug]

Lazy mod xD

[StrangerCoug]

StrangerCoug: Do you still want to lynch FL today?

No. I simply feel alvinz95 is a better play than forbiddanlight, and the latter is only my #2 suspect anymore.

I could go with an alvinz lynch (obviously), but I still don't think that'd help the town overall even if he is scum since we'll just come back to eating another day with me, unless people are willing to look past that and only bring new things into account.

I agree here, especially since I'm not one who wants to run around in circles. Everything about your case has been said at least twice. If something new comes up regarding you, I'll look at it.

[StrangerCoug]

This further bolsters my case as you technically asked SC your partner that you were going to vote me, and he agrees so you vote me.

Guilt by association once again. I believe you still fail to comprehend this when I've made in implicit, so I'm going to make this explicit: Neither of us are confirmed, so you can't exactly prove buddying or distancing right now. (I do actually question her motives for voting you, however—it looks on the opportunistic side.)

[StrangerCoug]

(I do actually question her motives for voting you, however—it looks on the opportunistic side.)

It is. But my vote is useless on myself and guess what? I actually have a chance to live now. It's pro whatever faction I'm on to do that, ne?

Yes, ma'am.

[StrangerCoug]

Sorry. Didn't catch it.

SC: You no longer think FL is the play today? You're willing to overlook that whole list of complaints you had about FL just because alvinz has been repeating your name like a broken record player?

His connecting me to forbiddanlight especially is a stretch at best. I can see some of it, but I fail to comprehend on why he's so hell-bent on offing me, and he is the person I want to go after Day 3 if he's still alive. I can make better sense of his accusing Goatrevolt and me of buddying if only because it was my Day 1 fear, but his Goatrevolt/forbiddanlight connection makes absolutely no sense.

And from what you're saying it seems to me that you no longer think that FL is the play partly because nothing new has come up against her since she resolved herself to her own death, and we've been discussing other suspicions while waiting for replacements to catch up. How does this make her less scummy?

It doesn't by much. She's still a decent-sized blip, but alvinz95 is making an even bigger "ping" on my scumdar. Actually, its siren is going off. I will have no hurt feelings if forbiddanlight is the lynch; I'm just trying to keep myself open-minded (unlike alvinz95, who already thinks he knows the scum trio when we haven't killed scum yet).

[StrangerCoug]

It doesn't by much. She's still a decent-sized blip, but alvinz95 is making an even bigger "ping" on my scumdar. Actually, its siren is going off. I will have no hurt feelings if forbiddanlight is the lynch; I'm just trying to keep myself open-minded (unlike alvinz95, who already thinks he knows the scum trio when we haven't killed scum yet).

By this do you believe that there are 3 scum, or do you KNOW that there are 3 scum?

I believe there to be three scum. I probably shouldn't have used the definite article in that context, but 9:3 is the most common town to scum ratio in mini games.

[StrangerCoug]

StrangeCoug is scum. I know.

How?

[StrangerCoug]

StrangeCoug is scum. I know.

How?

Cause I can think. So you admit you're scum?

No, I'm questioning how you can say "I know". Your post, if truthful, implies one of two things:

1.

You're a cop and you have a guilty result on me.

2.

You're also scum and this is a bussing attempt.

I also see two really stupid things:

3.

You're scum looking for the cheapest mislynch possible.

4.

You're lazy town that no longer cares to present a decent case on me.

Tell me which one of those four it is.

[StrangerCoug]

OK, #4 is a bit of a harsh accusation, but not thinking before you act is what I'm trying to get at there.

[StrangerCoug]

Way to dodge my question. I asked you to tell me which one of those four statements is true, and you instead responded pretty much with how each of the above isn't possible.

1. *scoffs* Rolefishing? Are you blind!?

YOUR POST #752 IS A SLIP.

You brought this on yourself.

2. This is false. I could be either town or scum, and I'm trying to get a straight answer out of you as to how I'm confirmed scum when, at this point, I'm not. Your recent posts are telling me that you have something to hide. If I know that something, then

maybe

I'll start believing you.

3. Once again, I am not confirmed, hence my accusing you of tunnel vision.

4. Town shouldn't be lazy. Makes scum's job easier.

And so he knows,

Mod: The following game I mention is completed.

Keep this in mind, alvinz95: In Mini 591, which we played together, I announced out loud my temptation to say something if it didn't make me look hypocritical. I was forced to say it anyway. I wanted somebody to hurry up and hammer Xtoxm, yet I both FoS'd and voted you for rushing the day by also asking somebody to hurry up with the hammer. You were alive at the time; in fact, you were the post before said temptation was mentioned.

Now give a decent answer.

[StrangerCoug]

Why am I voting you for a slip? Because of two fatal words: "I know". You refuse to tell me how exactly you know. It does not look good when town knows you're hiding something.

You may not realize it, but the way you worded #752 tells us you are not vanilla. Any post that implies that the poster is not vanilla falls into two categories: scum slip or softclaim. I first brought up the possibility of you being cop at #755 given #752. Therefore, instead of me being guilty of rolefishing, you are guilty of

ex post facto

. Once again, you brought this on yourself. Stop passing the buck.

Screw the rest of your argument. It's the boy crying wolf now.

[StrangerCoug]

WIFOM, but I'll still answer: Because one of these days you'll learn that your tunnel vision is wrong. And then what happens?

[StrangerCoug]

Just because something worked three times in your favor does not necessarily mean it will again a fourth time. It's an appeal to probability, for a lack of a better thing to call it.

I am very,

VERY

tempted to vote myself and then advocate my own lynch for the sole purpose of proving your tunnel vision wrong. It's an absurd, out of the blue strategy, but it is intended to bring across what I feel is an important lesson for you: Tunnel vision is not always right. That's why it's also called confirmation bias. There are much better ways to play Mafia than out of self-righteousness and saying "Uh huh, you're scum simply because I know you are. Now what are you going to do about it?"

If you are willing to risk me blowing your cover this way, then let me know, but remember, if it works against your favor, it's on you.

[StrangerCoug]

If I can't get alvinz95 to learn the easy way, I'll make him learn the hard way. We had a doc save (or the Mafia decided not to send in a kill), so we have a mislynch that we didn't previously. Yes, I am aware of your case still being unresolved as a resuly. It's a daring move, but if alvinz95 is willing to gamble on my lynch, then so am I.

Speaking thereof, as for the gambler's fallacy, that's what I wanted to call part of my case on alvinz95, but I didn't feel it was the right term. I said "does not necessarily". Therefore, it's not a fallacy on my part, but an attempt to disprove the fallacy that exists on his part.

If we can prove either of our alignments elsehow, then feel free to offer what should be done instead, but the point I'm bringing across is "tunnel vision doesn't work".

Hypocritical? Most likely. Strategic? That can be debated, but I think so. Will it work? We'll have to see.

[StrangerCoug]

Yes, but if he is indeed scum, then I'm trying to out him that way.

[StrangerCoug]

Let me make it clear that if anybody other than me is willing to go after alvinz95, then feel free to do so, but I've stopped believing him a long time ago. That's why my vote is where it is. But if I do this, I am doing this

KNOWING

it is a drastic measure for my case that probably could have been settled elsehow. I am a gambling man—probably more so than I should be. But this is a last resort.

[StrangerCoug]

Stupid crosspost. It takes me awhile since I think as I type.

alvinz95 has been tunneling in on me all game. Most of his other suspects have something or other to do with my case. But if I am town... then what? He's not backing himself up.

[StrangerCoug]

If there's going to be considerable objections to the self-destruct gambit, then I won't pull it off. It's someone else's turn to attack alvinz95's supposed assuredness, though.

What do you think of #752? Do you see it as a slip?

[StrangerCoug]

alvinz95 needs to learn the difference between knowledge and confidence. If by "I know" he meant "I'm almost certain", then he should have said that so it wouldn't be ambiguous so I wouldn't accuse him of a slip or a softclaim or whatever the heck it is.

As for alvinz95 being cop, nowhere did I say he had to be sane. I just said he had to have a guilty on me if he really did know. If alvinz95 is cop and I am town, then he's either insane or paranoid.

Is there anything else that anyone would like to clear up?

[StrangerCoug]

I'm going to sum up what I think went wrong here in one sentence:

If alvinz95 is vanilla as he says, then I misinterpreted #752.

IME, both online and off. misunderstandings often turn into arguments.

[StrangerCoug]

I do want to switch over to forbiddanlight for a number of reasons. If I remember correctly, she claimed vanilla, so we don't have the danger of offing a power role with her.

If forbiddanlight is lynched and she flips scum, yay for most of the rest of us. We're that much closer to wiping out the Mafia. If, however, she is town, then a good deal of alvinz95's buddying accusations get thrown out the window.

alvinz95, I am going to stop reading your posts until you snap out of your tunnel vision, regardless of how much you believe it.

[StrangerCoug]

forbiddanlight is a potty mouth. I wish she weren't, but she is. I don't like being sworn at either.

I'm pretty sure that at least one of forbiddanlight and alvinz95 is scum. forbiddanlight for her quick hammer and a lot of her actions early today. I think everybody knows by now why alvinz95 and I suspect each other.

[StrangerCoug]

if we keep going like this this game will never end

And what exactly are you insinuating?

[StrangerCoug]

I don't care if I die.

Oh come on. Don't give up.

Actually give evidence

supporting why you think Goatrevolt, forbiddanlight, and/or I are scum. You think the three of us are scum, but all I remember you saying is that we have been buddying. None of us are confirmed, so this cannot yet be proven right or wrong. If two out of the three of us end up being town, what will be your case on the third? You're not thinking very far ahead. I'm not expecting you to be psychic, and I'm not assuming that you won't learn anything new, but I don't have good reason to believe that you're considering a plan B. I think at least one of you and forbiddanlight is scum, but if neither of you are, then I see the cases on sthar8 and cerebus3 plausible.

TL,DR version: You know better than not to back yourself up, and "I don't care if I die" reads to me as a cheap excuse for your failure to do so.

[StrangerCoug]

If there are not enough people voting, it's a No Lynch. I presume there is no reduced majority.

[StrangerCoug]

Seeing as I don't see much else happening today, I see no use having my vote where it is unproductive. I do suspect forbiddanlight, and her flip will help with my case on alvinz95 here. As I remember saying, if forbiddanlight is scum, yay. If forbiddanlight is town, alvinz95's case on her and me buddying is screwed over. Lots to be gained here.

Unconfirm and unvote: alvinz95
Major HoS: alvinz95
Vote: forbiddanlight

[StrangerCoug]

You talked me out of that, remember?

[StrangerCoug]

Goat, you're just too good at being mafia that I see right through it. I'm not going to bother reading walls of text. FL/SC/Goat any of the possibilities. If i'm wrong? Screw it.

What is this, the Too Mafioso argument?

[StrangerCoug]

Well, I'll tell you this: You and alvinz95 sure make this one of the most interesting games I've played, if a good deal of frustration goes with it.

[StrangerCoug]

Ooh ooh!

Ok, If I'm town, sthar, BaB, and alvinz are scum

If I'm scum, Goat and SC are my partners

Fair nuff?

No. You're essentially clearing five players without much reasoning to it.

[StrangerCoug]

alvinz95 I share suspicions with you on. Why BridgesAndBaloons and sthar8, though?

In addition, if you are scum, as far as I'm concerned you could have decided on two mislynches you want to see.

Your post says absolutely nothing about your thoughts on cerebus3, Megatheory, the second incarnation of Rage, skillit, or veerus yet implies all five of are town. I don't get it.

[StrangerCoug]

EBWOP: Stupid crosspost. Post #889 is directed at forbiddanlight.

[StrangerCoug]

Sorry about those.

[StrangerCoug]

I am resisting the temptation to insult alvinz95 right now, but in any event, he's still not being of any help.

[StrangerCoug]

I am resisting the temptation to insult alvinz95 right now, but in any event, he's still not being of any help.

I'm tempted to give up my PBPA. I mean, I probably won't, but I don't like that I've asked alvinz several times to respond to my question, yet when he makes a post he does no such thing, and responds to someone he has admitted to having tunnel-vision on.

I want to see the PBPA so I can claw alvinz95 to shreds.

I'm also very tempted to vote for him, but if that's going to happen, that'll come after I've presented the PBPA.

Go ahead. You'll have my support.

[StrangerCoug]

Mod: I switched votes here.

[StrangerCoug]

OK, now what? Something has to be wrong with the vote here too—it also still has me as voting alvinz95 when I switched seven posts before that. If that's the only thing wrong, then forbiddanlight should have been lynched.

I'm completely and utterly confused as to what the count should be.

[StrangerCoug]

Interesting. This is all old though. Why not bash on my tunnel vision? This is all before my claim then my bad attitude-ness. What I find very scummy of you, is that you aren't at all using any information from "Rage 1.0" rather saying you are someone else, which leads me to wonder if you are scum. You seem to be pretending to be townie (or being scum) very hard.

Anyway, I'm not replying cause I don't care if I die.

1. I thought I made it clear that I wasn't finished.

1. Sorry, not to me.

Wake-up call: alvinz95.

Read this:

Okay, I'm going to post part of my PBPA so that alvinz has time to respond to it.

What part of "part of my PBPA" don't you understand? And why do you have to be so damn oblivious to other people's cases?

[StrangerCoug]

I'm not protown, but I'm town. I've essentially given up, and my only task is to annoy the town to death by presenting a great case, then say "TOLD YA SO!" at the end, when we lose.

You're awfully pessimistic about yourself, yet you plan to annoy us afterward? I don't like this.

(at this rate we're getting nowhere with Goatrevolts new cases pulling attention away from Forbiddenlight, and the distracting Rage)

Cases = information. The game does not end when forbiddanlight dies, regardless of her alignment.

How can you call Rage distracting when you refuse to actually read his post?

So SC, I did not bother to read wall of text, and skipped that, and its not a crime to saying why he didn't attack my tunnel vision. I'm oblivious cause I'm a neutral.

I'm sorry, but oblivion does not work in a game of Mafia. I also don't see how you can call yourself oblivious when you have posted connections to what you say is forbiddanlight and I buddying, despite my correcting you and saying that it would read more like distancing in someone else's shoes.

You and forbiddanlight are playing awfully similarly to each other.

Unvote: forbiddanlight
Vote: alvinz95

I know it says I'm already voting him, but as it says here, my vote was supposed to be on forbiddanlight. But this way, the mod doesn't have to do extra work

[StrangerCoug]

I think I'm the only person voting him.

[StrangerCoug]

I now expect Goatrevolt to magically say the BaB wagon is wack and vote me. Expected scum play. See? I know your plans. Forbiddanlight is now pretty clear she's scum. I'm a bit more fuzzy on Goat, until FL dies. Well it seems I'm the expected lynch. Just remember what I said, and hopefully you'll apply it.

One, you're thinking way too far ahead for my liking.

Two, Goatrevolt pushed BridgesandBaloons quite a bit. To suddenly throw a good case out the window makes no sense regardless of alignment.

Three, if you present Goatrevolt as scummily as you do here, then why do you say you're fuzzy on him?

Four, answer my question please:

How can you call Rage distracting when you refuse to actually read his post?

[StrangerCoug]

alvinz95 is at L-1, is that correct?

That said, someone hammer. I'm done with him being uncooperative.

[StrangerCoug]

You know, if you want people to believe you and pay attention to you, perhaps you should respond to the case presented on you. I asked you a question that is still unanswered, and I'm not moving my vote until I see an answer. If you live to see tomorrow, I will vote you the first time I come into this thread, and this continues until either one of us dies or I see a response. That is final.

[StrangerCoug]

EBWOP: That's at alvinz95.

[StrangerCoug]

alvinz95 is at L-1, is that correct?

That said, someone hammer. I'm done with him being uncooperative.

asking for hammer?

FOS: SC

other note:
I'm certain that alvinz is being a jerk, and almost certain that he's not mafia.
His posts come off as a townie that's completely tunnel-vissioned and is burrying his head so deep in the sand of his theories that he's getting pissed off and uncooperative.
What fucking motive would scum have for being so stubborn? This isn't wifom, because what alvinz is doing is setting himself to be lynched.

I remember sthar8 saying something along the lines of that town should have a clear, transparent thought process. He's not explaining much either. The less information the town can get, the better off scum are. I'm still waiting for him to answer one question,

ONE SIMPLE QUESTION,

(once again, alvinz95: How can you call Rage distracting when you refuse to read his post?) and he continues to ignore it. As I said, I'm not unvoting until I get an answer, and I will continue to vote until he answers or one of us dies.

By my asking for the hammer, I'm indicating that I'm ready to finish the day. Whether it's scummy depends on the context of when it's requested. I miscounted in the post you quote, but it is an honest mistake.

[StrangerCoug]

Post 53:

StrangerCoug's post here here reminded me of a tattle'ing lil bother (who might have been actually fishing for a modkill when he thought Rage was quoting his role PM). It was really either tattling or he didn’t trust the mod, but still I felt like, OUR job isn’t really to police others posts, but to interpret them for scumminess, we aren’t the referees - are we?
Anyway, this coupled with him being the first one to point out forbiddanlight had voted mod (circumstantial evidence I know), following Goat blindly-or at the very least voting withput botherng to add anything or even summ up why he was voting- back in post 17 and voting alvinz95 just "for hypocrisy" (really just seems a lil light on reasoning to me)
so in short

unvote:Joonster

Vote: StrangerCoug

because I don’t like people just going w/ the flow, I don’t like people tattle’ing (I had enough growing up), I'd like you to go more into your justifications and reasoning so they can later be assessed, and I don’t like scummy opportunism - it may be a lil early to just accuse someone of following someone around, but your answer to Alvinz was kind of dismissive to his point, possibly because HIS point was only briefly articulated, much like your posts. maybe brevity is just my personal nemesis, but I think you can pursue the same lead as another person without merely parroting back what they said, or summing up someone's points in as few words as possible as you seem to love to do.

The post Skillit is talking about was at the top of page 2. Skillit's two posts on that page were dealing with the random stage. Why did Skillit wait so long to comment on SC's post?

Good point. I'd like to know too.

[StrangerCoug]

Unvote: alvinz95

since I got what I wanted. I still suspect forbiddanlight, but I'm not hammering her until everybody's ready for it.

[StrangerCoug]

Vote: forbiddanlight

Deadline is looming, and I don't see any other discussion coming. I believe I've already given my reasons for suspecting her, but let's start with the quick hammer on Day 1.

[StrangerCoug]

Let's just say you're at lynch plus one so it doesn't look like Rage's thought doesn't count

[StrangerCoug]

I have class in 15 minutes, so I'll reread when I get home. I do see a case on Goatrevolt, though.

The fact that there were no NK's night 1 but two NK's night 2 leads me to believe that Megatheory was a one-shot vigilante instead of a full vigilante, but that's just my thinking and I could be completely wrong.

[StrangerCoug]

I see Goatrevolt's earlier posts as protown, but the two posts setting me off are this and this, and both happen to be with vote reasoning. I'm the kind of person who expects voting to be accompanied with reasons for it, and failing that where to get it from.

The first vote doesn't address forbiddanlight at all other than voting her. I understand it was deadline, but your post before this says she was second behind BridgesAndBaloons in order of who you wanted lynched. I see your case on BAB, but I can't find any reasoning for the switch.

The second vote is more of a timing issue since this is the first post in a lynch or lose situation. Goatrevolt has pushed Sthar8 a lot, so I'm not as worried, but what happened to player reviews, and why do you suspect Sthar8 over veerus?

Also, suggesting that a vig kill alvinz95, the vig actually doing so, and then the vig dying that same night is making me suspicious of a Mafia role cop in the setup. I'm not going to play outguess the mod, and I'm trying to avoid going

post hoc

on Goatrevolt, but something is rotten in the state of Denmark.

FoS: Goatrevolt

Sthar8's next.

[StrangerCoug]

OK, sthar8's a pretty active scum hunter, and I have a pro-town read on him. His most recent post is also what stands out to me the most from him, and I like his case on Goatrevolt. When I start seeing stuff that warrants a vote on Goatrevolt, I'll consider doing so, but I want to look at everybody else first.

I know town shouldn't be lazy, but that's unfortunately me right now, so those are the two I'll do at the moment. Willing to hear cases from anybody about anybody, though.

[StrangerCoug]

I don't have a case on goat. That would be BaB.

Your later posts address Goatrevolt a lot, so I was lead to believe otherwise.

Why BridgesAndBaloons?

[StrangerCoug]

I'm defending myself against goat. I believe him to be misguided town. I'm pretty sure that BaB thinks goat is scum, though.

That's helpful information, but you still missed my question. Why do you suspect BridgesAndBaloons?

[StrangerCoug]

OK, sthar8's a pretty active scum hunter, and I have a pro-town read on him. His most recent post is also what stands out to me the most from him, and I like his case on Goatrevolt. When I start seeing stuff that warrants a vote on Goatrevolt, I'll consider doing so, but I want to look at everybody else first.

I know town shouldn't be lazy, but that's unfortunately me right now, so those are the two I'll do at the moment. Willing to hear cases from anybody about anybody, though.

This really causes me to question here. Sthar doesn't have a case on me, so how exactly do you like his case on me?

I mistook his defense as the case, as he pointed out. (In that case, though, I can say he has a believable defense, so I'm not pointing out good posting for a lost cause )

[StrangerCoug]

Mod: Goatrevolt is voting sthar8, not me.

[StrangerCoug]

EBWOP: The quota errors kept me from posting this, but where it says "me" it's more grammatically correct to say "I".

[StrangerCoug]

I'm fine with a massclaim if it's our only chance of winning, and I'll step forward and claim vanilla.

[StrangerCoug]

I don't think a mass-claim will help us right now. But I don't think it will hurt.
So, I'm willing to claim also.

Then do so.

[StrangerCoug]

I really think there is a Cult, because it would make so much sense to have in a fake political game, and because I don't know much about any power roles, so I can't really speculate much more than this.

Just because it makes sense given the theme doesn't mean it makes sense in the setup. Cults are very hard to balance, and I simply don't see one happening in a normal.

Finally, I think what the Town needs, in the interest of discussion, is for our top three suspects to claim. Therefore, I suggest everyone post, along with whatever else they haven't said already, who they want to role-claim and why.

Either everybody or nobody. That's the only way I see this working. Order doesn't matter to me.

[StrangerCoug]

Real quick: I'm willing to willing to claim anytime. But everyone else hasn't agreed to a massclaim yet. So it's anti-town for anyone to just start blurting out their role COUGH SC COUGH!

Hey, I'm not the one that objects to massclaiming. This needs to happen if we want to win.

[StrangerCoug]

Real quick: I'm willing to willing to claim anytime. But everyone else hasn't agreed to a massclaim yet. So it's anti-town for anyone to just start blurting out their role COUGH SC COUGH!

Hey, I'm not the one that objects to massclaiming. This needs to happen if we want to win.

Well, there

are

mixed feelings about doing an actual mass-claim. Why do you think it's necessary?

In my opinion, LYLO is reason enough to massclaim.

[StrangerCoug]

Give me a heads-up when you're ready for me to start.

[StrangerCoug]

then it seems to me that we dont do any popcorn or anything, just cut to the chase and say if you have a role to claim, claim first. if you claim late, you are more likely scum. right?

That doesn't take into account when people can get on MafiaScum.net. People have different schedules (for example, I currently have much less free time on Tuesdays and Thursdays than other days of the week), and the first person to claim a power role may simply have had the time to go first and has the same odds of being town or scum as anybody else.

[StrangerCoug]

But what if I were the real deal and all the claims happened while I was at work, asleep, etc.? What if I simply don't have as much free time as other people in the game? What if I'm V/LA? That's why I don't like your idea.

[StrangerCoug]

I don't mind going first, and I like the popcorn idea best.

[StrangerCoug]

@Electra, I was stating that I find BridgesAndBaloons scummy for asking why Goatrevolt wasn't nightkilled.

lol. Can you name

one

reason why that's scummy?

I asked because he was imo the logical night kill. I'm not trying to throw WIFOM on to the people who think he's town, I was pointing out something interesting.

Yeah, I can name a reason why that's scummy. Because scum doesn't always go for the most logical target. You would think that, once you claim a power role, you would die that night. But what if scum has a roleblocker? What if you have gamblers for Mafiates? The power role might actually stay alive.

Goatrevolt didn't claim a power role, but my point still stands.

FoS: BridgesAndBaloons

[StrangerCoug]

I know you're starting with me because I claimed already, but just as a reminder, I'm a vanilla townie.

BridgesAndBaloons, go.

[StrangerCoug]

same

It probably wouldn't hurt if you posted some kind of a summary on all the players since you just replaced in and haven't really had the chance to contribute all that much.

I don't think so either since it gives me something to do while playing the waiting game.

[StrangerCoug]

I think goon/goon/roleblocker is balanced.

[StrangerCoug]

I don't have a good reason to doubt the claims right now, but given two people claim to have been roleblocked, I'm pretty sure they're either both town or both scum.

[StrangerCoug]

I agree with SC being scum.

vote: SC

I think this game is over for town. Even if we lynch correct today, i doubt that people won't lynch me 2 more days in a row. (and I don't see myself being NKed) If we weren't in LYLO, I'd volunteer myself simply because of how terribly I'm playing. I'm not trying to put pathos here, I'm serious.

Whoa, whoa, whoa. You vote me based on Electra's reasoning, which is solely his/her thought that Rage and skillit are town, and then you say you think the game is over for town? What on earth is this about?

HoS: BridgesAndBaloons

[StrangerCoug]

I agree with SC being scum.

vote: SC

I think this game is over for town. Even if we lynch correct today, i doubt that people won't lynch me 2 more days in a row. (and I don't see myself being NKed) If we weren't in LYLO, I'd volunteer myself simply because of how terribly I'm playing. I'm not trying to put pathos here, I'm serious.

Whoa, whoa, whoa. You vote me based on Electra's reasoning, which is solely his/her thought that Rage and skillit are town, and then you say you think the game is over for town? What on earth is this about?

HoS: BridgesAndBaloons

It would be nice if I saw a response to this.

[StrangerCoug]

Just for kicks,

@Mod: Please prod everybody else.

[StrangerCoug]

Of the people that didn't claim a power role, I suspect BridgesAndBaloons the most. He needs to stop dodging my question about why he voted me based solely on Electra's reasoning, which implicates him too, and then decided to be pessimistic about town winning.

[StrangerCoug]

Electra's lack of posting is suspicious at this stage, I'll admit. BridgesAndBaloons, however, seems to love blowing me off. If his next post doesn't address his vote on me in the slightest,

WHICH HE STILL HASN'T EXPLAINED,

then I'm voting him back. That simple.

If he's town, then that serves both of us right, but I highly doubt it. It seems like he's throwing on a vote, going with the flow, and hoping nobody notices, which is not pro-town.

[StrangerCoug]

You know what, I'm not going to wait for an explanation for BridgesAndBaloon's vote on me if I can't afford to since he simply refuses to give it. I've lost track of how many times I've said that today anyway.

Vote: BridgesAndBaloons

[StrangerCoug]

BridgesAndBaloons is seriously not convincing me here. I finally got the answer to my question, but for starters, who the hell self-votes as town in LYLO?

[StrangerCoug]

Regarding StrangerCoug, though, why does it seem like his posts today revolve around defending himself and pushing it back at who he's defending from? Ie. His defense against BAB is that his vote was without justification (this part I agree with, no vote should be made in LYLO without justification) and that BAB hasn't been answering SC's questions. But he hasn't really commented on the claimed power-roles, and in the time where they were first revealed he speculated mafia roles of "Goon/Goon/Roleblocker" (post #1154) after Sthra8 claimed (post #1153).

The fact that we have a roleblocker lends me credibility to their claims, which is why I haven't discussed them in detail. That's also why I've dropped GoatRevolt.

[StrangerCoug]

C'mon, guys! Nothing in almost 48 hours!?

[StrangerCoug]

Sorry about that. I'm here. I still think BridgesAndBaloons is our best bet here.

I'll address his latest post to get reactions.

1) my self-vote, in hindsight, was a bad idea. I realized this and switched my vote back to SC.

You voted me the first time to get reactions, which doesn't help a lot in a lynch-or-lose situation. After you voted me the second time, you said that you thought Electra was scum and that, given your vote on me instead, one of the three of us had to be. Why don't you put your vote where your mouth is?

2) As for being erratic: eh, I was posting odd stuff, but erratic? I was trying different gambits and stuff, because (as I thought before), town didn't have much of a chance to win. I was trying to do things to help us. No, they haven't help us much, and I'm doing trying crazy things for this day probably.
Anyway, how is erratic posting scummy?

Because erratic behavior is more likely to cause the loss of the player engaging in it than not, especially right now.

and how was the gambits I've done scummy?

Gambits are usually associated more with scum than town. (An exception would be Kokusho's Gambit.)

A vote for SC at this stage meant nothing because there needs to be two misvotes. I've explained this before.

And you still have a vote out on me because?

Confirm vote: BridgesAndBaloons

4) IMPORTANT: what questions have I not answered from SC or anyone? My ignoring is not intentional. Please rewrite them so I know what I missed. Thanks.

None that I could think of as of that post.

5) There is some indescribable quality about them that makes Skillit's posts so hard to comprehend. And don't know how I could possibly benefit from lying about this, but I'll try to get to them later.

Please do.

[StrangerCoug]

In that game, he was a tracker

Correction: I

claimed

tracker in that game. I wasn't really a tracker there, as you wrote that sentence to say, even though earlier in your post you correctly say I was scum.

[StrangerCoug]

I'd like to see BridgesAndBaloons respond to my latest case against him, and it'd be nice to see Electra sometime before the deadline hits, but those are the only new things I have to say.

[StrangerCoug]

EBWOP: No it isn't. veerus, why do you have somebody you say is a nonfactor since forbiddanlight's lynch as your guess as to my scumbuddy?

[StrangerCoug]

Hmm. If we are to doubt the power roles, then skillit's post makes me want to look at veerus as my #3 suspect behind BridgesAndBaloons and Electra, but I otherwise do not have a good reason to doubt the doctor.

[StrangerCoug]

im not saying we should doubt his claim,

That's why I said "if". I see no good reason to at this time.

[StrangerCoug]

I can't help but compare to his performance now to his posts on previous days. Now he's making short posts, commenting on the fairly recent stuff, whereas in the previous days it seems like he was more committed to his suspicions.

I'm making short, non-committal posts because the wrong move will cost us the game. I'm trying to be cautious here.

[StrangerCoug]

Reposting #1245 for BridgesAndBaloons to see, seeing as I don't remember much of this being addressed:

Sorry about that. I'm here. I still think BridgesAndBaloons is our best bet here.

I'll address his latest post to get reactions.

1) my self-vote, in hindsight, was a bad idea. I realized this and switched my vote back to SC.

You voted me the first time to get reactions, which doesn't help a lot in a lynch-or-lose situation. After you voted me the second time, you said that you thought Electra was scum and that, given your vote on me instead, one of the three of us had to be. Why don't you put your vote where your mouth is?

2) As for being erratic: eh, I was posting odd stuff, but erratic? I was trying different gambits and stuff, because (as I thought before), town didn't have much of a chance to win. I was trying to do things to help us. No, they haven't help us much, and I'm doing trying crazy things for this day probably.
Anyway, how is erratic posting scummy?

Because erratic behavior is more likely to cause the loss of the player engaging in it than not, especially right now.

and how was the gambits I've done scummy?

Gambits are usually associated more with scum than town. (An exception would be Kokusho's Gambit.)

A vote for SC at this stage meant nothing because there needs to be two misvotes. I've explained this before.

And you still have a vote out on me because?

Confirm vote: BridgesAndBaloons

4) IMPORTANT: what questions have I not answered from SC or anyone? My ignoring is not intentional. Please rewrite them so I know what I missed. Thanks.

None that I could think of as of that post.

5) There is some indescribable quality about them that makes Skillit's posts so hard to comprehend. And don't know how I could possibly benefit from lying about this, but I'll try to get to them later.

Please do.

[StrangerCoug]

xD

But seriously, I'm not buying BridgesAndBaloon's craplogic.

[StrangerCoug]

Do I smell BridgesAndBaloons playing the newbie card in #1217?

Granted, I'm a newbie to this game too, but your expectation that every post needs an explanation is completely wrong.

[StrangerCoug]

Electra, you are ignoring the case on BridgesAndBaloons. To me, that pretty much makes you his scumbuddy. Not 100% as you claim is on me (and I can tell you you're 100% wrong), but I'm about 85% sure you're scum with him.

It also makes absolutely no sense that you have an FoS on Skillit for going after BridgesAndBaloons like mad. Yes, the deadline is Sunday, but we still have enough time to swing the vote in BridgesAndBaloon's direction, which is what I want to see happen.

[StrangerCoug]

What kind of bull are you trying to pull? You're saying that reactions don't help alot in LYLO? This is just a blatant

lie

.

That's nowhere near what I was saying with my statement. Reactions in LYLO could mean the difference between winning and losing, and I suspect you for voting me for the sole purpose of getting them. If you want to vote people just to get reactions, do it in the random voting stage, not LYLO where it can cost us the game.

Also, we see SC trying to get me to switch my vote to electra here. This looks good for electra (iff SC is scum).

I'm pretty sure she's scum too, but I am not trying to get you to unvote specifically to vote Electra. I am defending myself and, by doing so, asking you to reconsider what you are doing.

The truth is, I think you're scum, and that's why I'm voting for you.

You so far haven't listed a single reason why my post makes me the "best bet" to lynch.

I have seen absolutely nobody behave in LYLO the way you have.

2) As for being erratic: eh, I was posting odd stuff, but erratic? I was trying different gambits and stuff, because (as I thought before), town didn't have much of a chance to win. I was trying to do things to help us. No, they haven't help us much, and I'm doing trying crazy things for this day probably.
Anyway, how is erratic posting scummy?

Because erratic behavior is more likely to cause the loss of the player engaging in it than not, especially right now.

HOW IS THIS SCUMMY? Scum don't want to die, and neither do townies. So how is acting in a way that can make you lose scummy? Craplogic. That's the first time I've used this term because this the first time I've ever found bonafide craplogic.

Logical behavior is the most pro-town kind of behavior in LYLO. Think of a mine field. Would you behave erratically in a mine field? No. Therefore, should you behave erratically in LYLO? No.

In addition, the more erratic you are, the more desperately you appear to be keeping yourself alive.

The second wrong part is: you are making a SWEEEEPING generalization about erratic behavior, that doesn't even apply to this situation. How was voting for you cause

me

to lose? what are you even talking about?

Again, not what I was saying. Your vote in and of itself will not necessarily cause your loss—that will only happen if we're both town, and I think it's well established that we each think the other is scum.

The context of your vote is what I consider to be erratic. Seriously, voting me for reactions and then talking about the likelihood of town losing at this stage of the game? What are

YOU

even talking about!?

and how was the gambits I've done scummy?

Gambits are usually associated more with scum than town. (An exception would be Kokusho's Gambit.)

Another exception would be what I just did today. Seriously, your post doesn't even address my question. I asked you how my gambit specifically was scummy, and again you make a sweeping generalization that evades my question. Are you in a presidential debate or something?

LYLO is usually not the time to be using gambits (Kokusho being an exception again). There is too high a risk for something to go wrong; in fact, it's asking for trouble. When LYLO exists with more than three people, if X people vote the same person, where X is the number required to lynch minus number of scum, and nothing immediately happens, that does not necessarily mean that those people are town that happen to be a right guess, even though that's what we hope. There could be scum on that wagon. Because nothing happened with the first two votes on me, we've confirmed that at least one of you, Electra, and me is scum, and I know what I am.

But how do we know you're town? We don't.

A vote for SC at this stage meant nothing because there needs to be two misvotes. I've explained this before.

And you still have a vote out on me because?

Confirm vote: BridgesAndBaloons

Are you scared of being lynched? Yes. Then again, townies would to. Null tell. You wanted to win today, you thought I was an easy lynch, I'm sure.

No, I thought you were the most likely to be scum. Of course I want to win, but I can't win today.

Btw, I chose you for my gambit because you gave off scummy vibes, and I knew that of the 4 vanillas besides me that aren't confirmed, three of them were scum. So I choose one of the four that I felt was scummiest. You have not assuaged me thoughts, so I'm still voting for you.

I feel I have addressed them, though.

Do I smell BridgesAndBaloons playing the newbie card in #1217?

Granted, I'm a newbie to this game too, but your expectation that every post needs an explanation is completely wrong.

LOL

This is soooooo desperate. Am I using the newbie card to defend scummy behavior?
No ... so then I'm not really playing the "newbie card."[/quote]

I could have been wrong about you doing so, which is why I phrased it in the form of a question, but that wouldn't be the only reason I had to suspect you anyway.

I was just saying that because some of my posts come off as a coming from a pretentious asshole, so I try to show that I don't think I'm better than anything but admitting how I'm still new to this game. Still, my newness should not excuse anyone from attacking me or from me making bad cases.

Great statement, but with a major flaw—you're not new. You have been here for over half a year now. You also have 759 posts as of right now. Compare this to my being about six or seven weeks newer than you but this post being my 1,688th in a Mafia game. I am not new either.

If the argument were that you were not a Mafia expert, however, this would be a different story as I'm not either.

My current guess to the scum team is BridgesAndBaloons, Rage, and Electra from most to least suspicious, and I'd like to hear how Rage is happy with what he thinks is the second towniest player being lynched.

[StrangerCoug]

EBWOP to fix a quote tag:

Do I smell BridgesAndBaloons playing the newbie card in #1217?

Granted, I'm a newbie to this game too, but your expectation that every post needs an explanation is completely wrong.

LOL

This is soooooo desperate. Am I using the newbie card to defend scummy behavior?
No ... so then I'm not really playing the "newbie card."

I could have been wrong about you doing so, which is why I phrased it in the form of a question, but that wouldn't be the only reason I had to suspect you anyway.

[StrangerCoug]

Are you serious? how in the world could this have cost us the game?
It takes

TWO

townies to lose at this point of the game. How could

ONE

townie misvoting or correctly voting ruin the game? Your response doesn't make sense.

The fact that it takes two townies voting the same person to lose does not mean that the first person voting can just slap his vote on there.

I'm pretty sure she's [electra] scum too, but I am not trying to get you to unvote specifically to vote Electra. I am defending myself and, by doing so, asking you to reconsider what you are doing.

freaking WIFOM.

Since when?

You so far haven't listed a single reason why my post makes me the "best bet" to lynch.

I have seen absolutely nobody behave in LYLO the way you have.

Uh... you

still

haven't mentioned a single reason why my post makes me the "best bet."
You want to lynch me because I'm... different?

Not just different. Completely irrational. You're missing my point.

Because erratic behavior is more likely to cause the loss of the player engaging in it than not, especially right now.

and as EVERYONE knows, scum want to risk their life [/sarcasm]

In addition, I AM NOT AN IDIOT!

Then stop making idiotic moves.

My behavior has made me absolutely no closer to being lynched. You are making more sweeping generalizations and not addressing this specific instance.

Logical behavior is the most pro-town kind of behavior in LYLO. Think of a mine field. Would you behave erratically in a mine field? No. Therefore, should you behave erratically in LYLO? No.

Yes, let's all be really quite and let the scum use their numbers to win...
or the townies could try risks. In LYLO with three scum, we need to do

something

to win. Now you're attacking my playstyle.

Because your actions today haven't been very pro-town.

Anyway, logical can = erratic.
I was being logical to myself, and to you and came off as erratic.

I thought erratic ≠ logical by definition.

In addition, the more erratic you are, the more desperately you appear to be keeping yourself alive.

CONTRADICTION

So, first I am acting erratic which is going to cause me to be lynched...
and now I am erratic to keep myself alive?
what the hell are you saying?

No, it is not a contradiction. Scum would naturally worry more about staying alive than scumhunting. Worrying too much about self-preservation is scummy.

No, I thought you were the most likely to be scum. Of course I want to win, but

I can't win today

.

!!!!!
If he's town, then he automatically loses being lynched.

Good thinking, Sherlock. I'm at L-1. If I get lynched, town loses.

I see this as a slip.

I see it as breadcrumbing on purpose.

Great statement, but with a major flaw—you're not new.

I have only 2 completed games and one game that was cancelled before the first lynch. I consider myself new to this game.
Anyway, It's not a problem, I'm not a newbie. I own up to all my mistakes are anything now. I will not pull the newbie card to defend myself because that would be a lie.

I have enough experience to know what's scummy and what's not.

Fair enough.

My current guess to the scum team is BridgesAndBaloons, Rage, and Electra from most to least suspicious

Why Rage?

That was in response into his LoS putting me as second towniest player and still advocating my lynch. He has since corrected himself.

Would everybody who thinks BridgesAndBaloons is scum vote him, and fast? We have only two hours and ten minutes left.

[StrangerCoug]

@#$%!!!

[StrangerCoug]

So I was wrong about BridgesAndBaloons being Mafia, but I had Electra guessed correctly. sthar8 being Mafia surprised me.

[StrangerCoug]

I believe I promised forbiddanlight something...

[StrangerCoug]

I wonder what would have happened if both kills went through Night 1. That was a weird night.