Mini Normal 2245: LJITGBSMoD [game over!]

[NorwegianboyEE]

Helluuuu :))))))))

[NorwegianboyEE]

Alice, Marcistar. How are you two feeling on this wonderful morning/evening/daytime/night?

[NorwegianboyEE]

camel's opening felt awkward to me but I took a look at his previous town newbie game and it also felt awkward so I'll write it off as NAI.

As expected from the master at being scummy. Didn’t you see his sig?

[NorwegianboyEE]

Hey Alice, remember that time you asked me if i’d buss both my teammates as scum and i answered no then proceeded to endgame as mafia?


GOOD TIMES~

[NorwegianboyEE]

T3 did you roll scum again?

[NorwegianboyEE]

I'm feeling wondrous.

[NorwegianboyEE]

whats the cause..?

let me guess...


YOU ROLLED SCUM????!?

Shh

[NorwegianboyEE]

T3 did you roll scum again?

you got me
dang how are you so good

If you tell me your teammates i might let you live until day 3.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Koba is in this game?

[NorwegianboyEE]

Why'd you out that they are Koba. You scum or something?

[NorwegianboyEE]

VOTE: T3

[NorwegianboyEE]

koba altslipped 5 times in mini normal 2232

But the players in this game are not likely to know that.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Holy crap T3, i was just joke scumreading you at first.

Unfortunate with that red pm buddy.

[NorwegianboyEE]

koba altslipped 5 times in mini normal 2232

I spectated that and didn’t catch it. Must be scum insider info.
VOTE: T3

Are you sure about that?

[NorwegianboyEE]

T3 did you roll scum again?

you got me
dang how are you so good

VOTE: T3

nooooo i'm lurknig under pressure

i know ur joking but like these dont have good vibes it kinda feels like ur not doing this naturally / the general feelings to all ur posts make me think ur not at ease
if u want specific reasoning :shrug:

That’s why i voted them, but didn’t put it into words until now.
It feels kinda fake how T3 was posting, and also their reaction to my vote.

[NorwegianboyEE]

It’s not conclusive, but seemed like a good place to start.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Idk why but Marcistar is like… really good at reading me? Even when everyone else fails at it?

I have a lot of respect for their tonal reads is what i’m saying. So high hopes for this mindmeld on T3 here.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Can’t promise anything.

About the "not acting stupid" part especially.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I'm not townreading Koba yet FYI.
But i'm not scumreading them either.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I'm not voting for meta reasons, i just thought their tone so far has been a bit scummy.

[NorwegianboyEE]

What was the "townie thought process." Anyway?

[NorwegianboyEE]

There’s nothing exciting happening through dayplay so let’s just get a flip somewhere.

[NorwegianboyEE]

btw redteas catchup is underwhelming yeah, but what did u expect when theres like nothing happening smhsmh

I feel like this is an cycle of boredom we’ve reached where it’s just always someone complaining that it’s boring, and then the game just BECOMES boring. An self-d
Fulfilling prophesy if you will.
Knock it off :<

[NorwegianboyEE]

There’s nothing exciting happening through dayplay so let’s just get a flip somewhere.

now this is openwolfing

So let’s just twiddle our thumbs and have nothing be happening?
Sounds like an great way to hunt scum.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I think one of the few posts that pinged me as sus earlier is Alice’s: "T3 is being voted a lot, is there an meta reason for that?" post.

[NorwegianboyEE]

The only way to get reads is to keep the very real threat of DEATH hanging over the heads of those that wish to mislead us.

PROVE ME WRONG.

[NorwegianboyEE]

VOTE: AliceK

Where is your head at ATM?

[NorwegianboyEE]

We could have someone step up to the plate and be an leader, but Marci is just too friendly/shy (i still love u Marcistar, no worries) to do that. And Koba is busy so they can’t do the job to the extent that it’s required. And nobody else is doing anything so i feel like i have to do something about this ASAP.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Then what have you done?

[NorwegianboyEE]

I wanna look at Val for a sec, i think they were a bit more wall-posty in the previous games i played with them. Gonna meta dive for a sec.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Holy shit, my memory was right. This is like night and day compared to Newbie 2068.

Val,

what’s happening??

[NorwegianboyEE]

All,

I am so sorry I am so late to the thread - you've all given me so much to think about, so it has taken me a little while to gather my thoughts and process it all.

One advantage of waiting until there has been a bit of back and forth is that one can start to get a sense of how the game is going to go, and start to make some initial reads. Lots to unpack here, so I'll get straight to it.

First!

I don't like this post. Clearly, post 6 is not post 1, and lying to us straight out of the bad is not a good look. In fact, I propose that we should make it a sort of agreement between us that if any of us are caught lying - about anything - we should give strong consideration to eliminating said person as a result. In addition, the whole post - the content, the tone, the context in which it was posted just gives me a general sense of unease. It was a gut read initially, but I think it's clear I was considering

MiniMegabyte

as at least a slight leanscum here already. Hence far, I have to say the rest of the players are null reads, which considering how advanced the game state is we can start to stop chucking random votes around, this took me a surprise - I was about to say we have some very good mafia players here, but then it occurred to me that if you were truly that skilled you would have convinced me to give you at least a slight townread by now.

(inserts shaking hands emoji here)

Ahh, and here is it; the smoking gun that grants some confidence to that earlier gut read. I am aware of the existence of confirmation bias, so I have gone through all the contributions

MiniMegabyte

has made very carefully several times to try and guard against that, but no -

MiniMegabyte

is a strong scum read at this point. Let me explain.

MiniMegabyte

is clearly trying to insinuate that she has no personal knowledge of

VFP

, particularly as this comes of the back of

VFPs

explicit (and as it turned out - also false) statement that they don't know

anyone

in the game. Also of interest is the actual emoji chosen here - a handshake. Between two persons. To the exclusion of the rest of the group. See where I am going with this? She also specifically and pointedly says "Nice to meet

ya

!" instead of "nice to meet

you

". We all know English is one of those languages where 'you' can refer to a singular or an individual. Using it here would be natural, avoid the wavy red line most modern day browsers would assign to the word, and give her the benefit of the ambiguity if anyone paying attention catches it. Instead, we get the informal 'ya', standing in contrast to 'y'all', which to me is a further indication the introduction is addressed specifically to

VFP

and she wants us to know it.

The question now becomes why? In my view, the only explanation that makes any sort of sense is she wants us to think, even if only subconsciously, that this over the top, public performance is the first time these two have ever came in to contact, and they most definitely have

NOT

already said hi to each other in the scum thread. No sir, definitely not! Nothing to see here folks! Shake my hand and smile!

You might think that this makes

VFP

her scum partner then, and the game is solved. Putting aside my feelings towards how I would feel if my first ever game of Mafia was solved and ended on the first IRL day, I don't actually think this is the case. I think

MiniMegabyte

knew that someone might pick up on the vibes between the two here and our first thought would be that they are scum partners. But equally, perhaps that what they just want us to think? I wish there was some term to describe this, but I've checked the wiki inside out and can't find one, so I have invented one, both to refer to this situation and the approach I think we should take to try and come to some sort of conclusion as to how to deal with it. I call it Written Information Follows Overt Meta (WIFOM) - in other words, when what you see written down is in line with what would be expected from your experience you should assume that it is true. No sane scum player wants to associate themselves so strongly with their scum partner so obviously and early, so when we see it happening, we should assume that ISN'T what is happening, that makes no sense. Thus, this is all a big play, and we can actually rule out

VFP

as the other scum. As an aside, feel free to use that acronym in your future posts, but do try to remember who invented it and give credit every now and again.

There is the open question as to why

VFP

also lied about their association with other players, but I am going to assume for the moment that was a legitimate mistake - I know what I said about eliminating proven liars, but I don't think they would be so fast to walk it back. In contrast, I think

MiniMegabyte

fully expected that "First!" lie to slip under the radar.

So;

VFP

townread,

MiniMegabyte

scumread,b]

everyone else

[/b]null. I think it's pretty clear given that set of reads where my vote should go. I'm going to put my vote where it obviously belongs, and strongly feel that we should make them the elimination for the day. Obviously there is quite a bit of time left before deadline, and I would like to see some more discussion, but I will put my vote on them and see what happens with the rest of the votes. Being the first, I won't be able to hammer, but I want to make it clear that I would be prepared to hammer, and it will take a lot now to convince me to switch my vote.

With all that said: VOTE: T3

Hi.

VOTE: marcistar.

Like this is the level of difference we’re talking here.
And it seems like Marci has another story to share.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I think Val would be perfectly capable of writing an wall as scum, but the fact that they haven’t. It feels a bit calculated, like they’re trying to get a better read on the gamestate before making one.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Ok yeah, i’ll vote here.
VOTE: Val89

[NorwegianboyEE]

Norwee ignores me to push some meta case

I am a scorned lover

I’m just coodere.

[NorwegianboyEE]

is it mean to meta read tho

See, this is what i’m saying.

Too friendly for their own good. :<

[NorwegianboyEE]

It’s not bad. But remember we’re at war here.
Sometimes ya gotta mercilessly execute some bad guys, know what i’m sayin?

[NorwegianboyEE]

it still feels so mean tho, what if he comes back and it kills any motivation he couldve gotten..?

I'd still like for him to show up and post before i make my final judgement.

But yes, pressure is good.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Let the man say hi.

He has said hi:

Hi.

[NorwegianboyEE]

My strongest scum read this game is now here.

Why?

[NorwegianboyEE]

Like, what is the scum motivation? It's the truth. And Marci and Gamma had the same thought about Val. So why does that make me your strongest scumread specifically?

[NorwegianboyEE]

I’m a miller mason.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I’m a miller mason combined vigilante and roleblocker.
I should be confirmed town from that claim i think.

[NorwegianboyEE]

You on the other hand have all of this conviction

If you scumread someone just for pushing a scumread then all i have to say is talk to the hand.

This is how you play the game.

[NorwegianboyEE]

You could be town, but i’m sure as hell not feeling your noob as hell reads.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Just because a wagon is there doesn’t mean Gamma is scum for "Groupthink", lmao.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I’m literally saying i want to wait for Val to post in response before i make up my mind.

This isn’t me pushing too hard, this is me pushing for an response and you butting in with an amateurish: "OMG ur pushing too hard u scum!!!" response.

[NorwegianboyEE]

If you were truly town you’d use half the energy to attack my deduction skills and use that to work with me to clear up any confusion and actually hunt scum.

That’s literally what i’m doing.
I’m calling your read on me trash and explaining why it’s bad so that hopefully you will reflect and get better reads if you are town here.
And i’m already hunting scum, what are you doing? Complaining about wagons in a game of mafia where consolidating wagons is the main purpose?
You could explain why Val is town, but you can’t. Instead you could say Val is null, and if he is. Then what the hell is the problem? We’re literally working to solve an slot that’s kinda sus and isn’t looking very town by hopefully garnering an response.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Obviously i’m defensive.
I don’t want town to listen to bad arguments that get’s town mislimmed.

If i have to belittle you to make the correct elimination happen, i will. Besides, i really do genuinely believe your way of solving shows signs of inexperience. It’s like something i’d do when i started playing, push one of the slots that push cases as scum, and then getting angry and tunneling that slot as scum when called out on my BS and bad arguments.

Anyway i do think you are very likely town here, but nobody should listen to your read on me because it’s plain wrong. And i think the Val push is an good state for the game to have right now so i don’t want you to disrupt that either.

[NorwegianboyEE]

And the unnatural part.

What is unnatural?

What do you define as unnatural?

Is scum= unnatural, and is unnatural= scum?

[NorwegianboyEE]

There are plenty of player on this site who’s playstyle i’d call: "unnatural." But that doesn’t mean i claim for them to be scum when they do odd things. Because what matters is whether there is scum motivation in what they are doing.

For example, i could ask myself. What is the scum motivation in what you are doing in this push on me Darby? The answer is… nothing.
So my conclusion is that you are town.

[NorwegianboyEE]

If you can explain in good detail, not to me or any others in this game.
But to YOURSELF. That what i have done so far comes from a SCUM and not a TOWN motivation.
Then i’d be interested in hearing more.
But honestly, i don’t think you truly can.

[NorwegianboyEE]

How is trying to do that actually reading my argument?

I already said i got your alignment through this.
So i'm not trying to read you, i just am dismantling your case because i'm town and i need to get an elimination on scum in this day phase. And i need influence for that.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I think the problem lies in you jumping in the way of a conversation you were never a part of. If you dislike the logic but think the push has value, that’s something you should hold onto until the push has had time to simmer a bit. At that point if you think someone is continuing to utilize bad logic, you can then push that with a stronger conviction than jumping the gun calling it out at the start. Scum reveal themselves most handily when their guards are down, imo.

This^

[NorwegianboyEE]

Well, i don't need to. But the last large i was in we limmed scum back to back for 3 day phases, so why not try to keep the streak going.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Again, Val can be town. But the whole POINT of this was to get more info to check.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Now the chance for us to potentially catch scum!Val has already lost some value because the pressure isn't as strong as it used to be.

[NorwegianboyEE]

wtfs sin..? social insurance number..?

No it's an previous game.

This one -> viewtopic.php?f=54&t=83774

[NorwegianboyEE]

Let me introduce you to Loftwing and Cool Cookie.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Cool.
If you don't have a problem with me aside from NAI stuff like: "i just don't like them" then i'm fine ending the discussion on that topic.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Interesting Darby, Norwegianboy are not svs.

?
Did you have reason to think it would be?

[NorwegianboyEE]

VOTE: NorwegianboyEE

Gut.

I'm voting you for an much more elaborate reason than "gut".

[NorwegianboyEE]

If that's the return then i'm not changing my vote.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Val is basicaly openwolfing at this point

Strong statement. Explain?

How about you explain why you feel dead on the inside?

[NorwegianboyEE]

Dodging the question. Got it.

I'm the one asking the questions, son.

You should know that whatever it is you’re doing, it is bound to give you a lot of attention.

[NorwegianboyEE]

So explaining yourself does sound like a very good idea.

[NorwegianboyEE]

We’ve gone from well explained reads and progression to one-liners, gut voting, and this weird arrogance about "being the one to ask questions" when you’re in a clearly bad spot.

If this isn’t scum!you struggling then what is it?

[NorwegianboyEE]

I'm not even the one Marci is talking to and I feel bad
wow

HUH?? AM I MAKING YALL FEEL BAD IM SORRY-
i thought i was keeping my negative emotions at bay

Uhh i don't mind.

[NorwegianboyEE]

The past 13 pages are exhausting. If I were Val and scum in this situation, I'd be giving some better replies, though. Town is looking for an excuse to lim him and the chip on the shoulder attitude might just be it. I think scum Val would realize this and not be so standoffish.

Are you Val?

[NorwegianboyEE]

- i have a townread on darby because of how hard he stuck to his opinion, especially when going back and forth with norwegianboyee and gamma having pitched in a bit. these two are players who have some of the largest sway on the game so far, he could've easily backed down to avoid the conflict/attention, but continuing to stick to it reads as someone uninformed, who really does feel like they're in the right.

I agree on this.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I understand the "why would scum!Val play like this" angle, i really do.
But i think it's an faulty argument because it is just as likely that Val could choose to continue to play like this as scum as he would as town. It would be quite jarring if he suddenly started posting a lot of huge posts in response to the pressure. I think he just knows he has to keep going this way, and i don't see the town motivation in what he is doing. So therefore i'm keeping my vote on Val at least until i understand it.

[NorwegianboyEE]

To put it simple, if i started a game as scum and played badly, and then suddenly everyone asks "why are you doing this?", the smart move isn't to make excuses and try to shittily emulate my town meta, but just act like this is how i play this game and it's nothing you should care about.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I’d rather Val just given an honest explanation if he’s town here. I don’t really want to consider whether any sort of belligerence is more likely to come from scum or town.

[NorwegianboyEE]

So your idea of scum hunting is to intenionally play scummy as an strategy, and that is what you did here?

[NorwegianboyEE]

What is this wagon on me even?

[NorwegianboyEE]

So because i’m voting Val for playing way different from what i expect of their townplay i’m being treated as an hardball pushing too much?
Really?

[NorwegianboyEE]

As far as I am concerned, I have played to my meta

You literally haven’t.

[NorwegianboyEE]

You haven’t even talked about anything outside of your vague, overtly hostile and apparent """gut""" read on me.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Is it ok for me to get slightly upset when i genuinely case someone and they do an Among Us: "no u" lazy ass vote and people join that wagon on me?

[NorwegianboyEE]

How many scum on my wagon?

[NorwegianboyEE]

So how does that help town?

[NorwegianboyEE]

If everyone acts scummy on purpose then they’re literally just town shitting up the game or are actual scum.

[NorwegianboyEE]

This sounds like complete bullshit.

There’s no other way to put it.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Who the fuck goes: "yeah i’m gonna make a post that get’s READ as scummy. Boy oh boy am i an genius. Now only scum will react to it!!"
L

[NorwegianboyEE]

I don’t read you based on intent. If you play intentionally scummy and get blamed for being scummy that is on you.
You’re either scum or employing one of the worst methods of reading other players i’ve ever seen on Mafia Scum.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Norwee how do you play if not reading for intent

That's the thing that matters

In this case, what is there to read for intent?

He made 2 one-liners.
And now he’s acting like he caught scum because… god forbid, apparently someone voted him when he intended to make those two posts and look bad.

[NorwegianboyEE]

That just sounds like a bunch of crap.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I said i don’t read him based on intent.
As in this specific case, because there was nothing to read intent from.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I’m thinking it’s just an excuse he came up with afterwards.

[NorwegianboyEE]

His play right now still fells different to how he plays as town.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Ah I see

I like this t3 vote though

Talk about T3?

[NorwegianboyEE]

Ok i’ll give it a chance.

I don’t get why you expect anyone to "get" that this is something you planned because your walls usually make you get votes though.

UNVOTE:

[NorwegianboyEE]

VOTE: T3

[NorwegianboyEE]

No, you don't get to just drop it. Explain 136.

Mine was a rediculously short ISO, that's the major part of why you say you are pushing me, so don't pretend like you missed it.

You didn’t just say: "i’ll post an wall later"
Because that’s all i read it as.

[NorwegianboyEE]

You didn’t just say: "i’ll post an wall later"
Because that’s all i read it as.

And the second line?

I didn't understand the second line so i ignored it. Assumed it was some reference to a previous game.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I'm a little disappointed you are the only one to comment on my open, though...

What open is it referring too?

[NorwegianboyEE]

I don't see what you're trying to say.

Do you have reads elsewhere right now Val?

[NorwegianboyEE]

I'm trying to say that I don't buy you didn't know what the second line of 136 implied,

What open is it referring too and what the hell are you talking about?

[NorwegianboyEE]

Did you mean to say "opening" and mistyped?

[NorwegianboyEE]

Lol Val, you're misplaying your role hard.

First of all, let's ignore that you're hyperfocusing on another town.

So you get an IC and the first thing you do is to literally just pretend to be scummy and then say "AHA! YOU THOUGHT SCUMMY POST WAS SCUMMY!? WHAT A SCUM YOU ARE!!"

Like, jesus.
Amateurs.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I'm feeling this "waah, you are playing your role wrong" reeks of frustration you are going to have to go back to the drawing board as far as pushing a mislim goes.

Fucking lol.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I'll be ignoring Val because he's clearly incompetent.

Dwlee, i'll sheep your read for now.

[NorwegianboyEE]

It was T3 that outed jolyne as Koba right? Yeah i'm gonna vote there.
Going with initial gut reads ftw.

[NorwegianboyEE]

toxictaipan

im interested in ur input on this val stuff, do u mind giving some thoughts about that and anything else u may have thought of..?

The past 13 pages are exhausting. If I were Val and scum in this situation, I'd be giving some better replies, though. Town is looking for an excuse to lim him and the chip on the shoulder attitude might just be it. I think scum Val would realize this and not be so standoffish.

I think the interactions between DArby and NorwegianboyEE are much more interesting, but can't quite pin a read either way on the two yet.

Wondering if this is TMI.

[NorwegianboyEE]

It was T3 that outed jolyne as Koba right? Yeah i'm gonna vote there.
Going with initial gut reads ftw.

you were perfectly content to not mention me up to here the past few days - what changed?

I guess i just got better than to start sussing you when you literally said you would go V/LA. So i just shelved you as null and thought i wouldn't consider you in the equation until you came back.

[NorwegianboyEE]

a lot of unreadable banter
usually when that happens it means my reads are incorrect

Didn't like this post.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Val is basicaly openwolfing at this point so I'm fine with my vote there.
I'd say gamma is the main slot I need to reevaluate.

If you want a player that seems too aggressive then look here.

[NorwegianboyEE]

It was T3 that outed jolyne as Koba right? Yeah i'm gonna vote there.
Going with initial gut reads ftw.

you were perfectly content to not mention me up to here the past few days - what changed?

I guess i just got better than to start sussing you when you literally said you would go V/LA. So i just shelved you as null and thought i wouldn't consider you in the equation until you came back.

I don't believe you. That doesn't mean I think you are scum. I just don't believe this.

Ok, i'll be honest.

I assumed you would be scum with Val and you were intentionally staying offline so you wouldn't need to get your fingers wet with blood from an ongoing Norwee wagon, and then hammer at the end or something.

But that all went out the window when you voted Val and he was confirmed town.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Koba town, norwee town, t3/toxic scum

I also am wanting to get a better feel on Alice, i'm not sure about them.

[NorwegianboyEE]

so i assumed it was real bc noob claim

[NorwegianboyEE]

i was legitimately busy this weekend.

i feel if i was scum i would force myself to go on because of my recent lurky scumgames - because yeah.

i worked 16 hours sat/sun and also it was my mom's bday AND i had a date with my bf so yep, was packed.

I believe it not because you said so, but because you seem to be actually trying to play the game now that you're back.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Dwlee is playing to his scum meta but I'll need more data

Dwlee is gonna smack you.

[NorwegianboyEE]

t3

yes?

[NorwegianboyEE]

My sense of humor is weird.

[NorwegianboyEE]

You could expect some problems if you usually open with a wall as Town.

If you're in some noob games i guess.
Usually players that make genuine looking walls at the start and stay consistent with it are town.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I’ve actually rolled town so much lately that i’m getting bored of it.
Why can’t i be evil for once and try out some cool strategies.

[NorwegianboyEE]

You could expect some problems if you usually open with a wall as Town.

If you're in some noob games i guess.
Usually players thatwith it are town.

Usually. There are always exceptions.

Is this little interaction supposed to be relevant to this game?

An example of my usual wall was given by Marci at 183. Does any think that, or any of the other examples given, could ever reasonably qualify as a "genuine looking wall"?

If not, what's the deal here?

I don't really care. But maybe have a look at the people in your wagon (or supporting) and find a one who knew that it is a push on a Townie.

Actual good advice.

You’re a lot more tolerant than me, i prefer to just insult newbies to their face.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Serious question 2: Is there an actual Norwee push

You tell me.

Is there?

[NorwegianboyEE]

I’d vote T3 or Toxic right now.

Want to see more from Camel.

[NorwegianboyEE]

What question?

[NorwegianboyEE]

You’re asking me if i think there’s an actual push on me?

Is that the question?

[NorwegianboyEE]

If so, the answer is no.

You are not going to convince enough players with your current argument, to be able to realistically build up enough support to have an wagon on me that is big enough to eliminate.

[NorwegianboyEE]

It all smells rather defensive.

Hello. My name is Norwee, pleased to make your acquaintance.

Since that reveal, he's been heavy with the same "ohh, you stupid newbie, why should we listen to YOU" attitude I got in the newbie game we played, which first twigged me I might be dealing with a scum!Norwee, and I was ultimately proven right.

No no, that’s just me hating on newbies. My actual scum tell was that i stopped caring.

[NorwegianboyEE]

He seemed pretty darn sure about my alignment at that point,

I never called you 100% scum.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I get it Val.

You saw me as scum and now you think my towngame looks like a beautiful saints melody in comparison.

But truth is i’m always a hot mess.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Seeing self-satisfied town pushing town is quite the sad sight.

[NorwegianboyEE]

when you can successfully driven my wagon up to 5 and E-2. Your reaction to that,

Are you gonna cry about it?

[NorwegianboyEE]

I say it is silly, because it is simply expressing vaild reservations that other slots have about if a scum!Me would be so dumb

I actually had respect for you as an player to consider that it was more likely that you were scum pulling an smart move, than town doing an awful PR play.

Obviously i was wrong to not underestimate you.

[NorwegianboyEE]

i c i c

norwegianboy

lmk when ur here lets chat ill even write down my questions i have for u so i dont forget

I’m still in bed but sure.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Disappointing.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I hope it’s more than scummy tone or too defensive or whatever completely non-allignment indicative thing i’ve been pushed for as town throughout about a good half of my games?

[NorwegianboyEE]

I’ve pushed Val for an legitimate reason and unvoted even before he claimed PR. Meanwhile scummy slots have TMI’d him town and forced this perspective of: "scum in one of Norwee/Val" to get town onto the wrong path, helped along by Val’s failure to properly get scumreads and tunneling/OMGUS tendencies.

There’s literally nothing i’ve done that is scummy and it’s really stupid to eliminate an high poster slot on day 1 without even giving them a chance to comment further on the game and prove their towniness because they have to constantly deal with distractions that take the focus away from scum players and on to targets for the scum to mislim.

[NorwegianboyEE]

the only solution is to play mafia for 3 hours until i actually have to wake up

I literally did this on monday.
But i played an visual novel for 5 hours.

[NorwegianboyEE]

VOTE: Toxictaipan

[NorwegianboyEE]

VOTE: Toxictaipan

Is this cause t3 posted more or something else

Because i really want more from Toxic.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Norwee and me go way back

Not that far back?
Half a year at most?

[NorwegianboyEE]

You could say we’ve been in many games in an short period of time.
But it’s not an "far back" relationship.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Also, wow.
You joined and played games when you were 14 years old?

[NorwegianboyEE]

I was thinking about this game during my break and im comfortable locktowning both gamma and marci atp - very towny people dwlee + darby. They all have good vibes and have been towntelling thus far more than every other slot (except me ofc)

alice / norwee / t3 looking like the bottom of my poe rn

I thought you were good at reading me.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Can you explain what this "scum meta" entails?

The amount of times they vote someone within their first 50 serious posts. With town them it’s almost always exactly 4 times, scum then it’s usually 1 or 2.

Hmm?

Sounds interesting. I wanna know more.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Why did you say Dwlee was "still playing to his scum meta" earlier? It felt to me like you were saying his posts made in the present gave you that vibe, but now you say it's about posts made in the past.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Holy fuck that's the tell I'm LMAO

I thought it would be an funny reaction from you, lol.

[NorwegianboyEE]

way less invested in the game, cynical, the opposite of a team player.

Basically the opposite of scum!Gamma.

Got it.

[NorwegianboyEE]

see I would've been *so* easy to push atp and you didn't
towny

Why is that townie?

That's actually the one thing that's still making me second guess T3, that he's not voting me here when it's so easy. Which could easily be an scum move.

[NorwegianboyEE]

And T3's already shown in a previous game where he literally tried to pocket me.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Meanwhile scummy slots have TMI’d him town and forced this perspective of: "scum in one of Norwee/Val" to get town onto the wrong path,

I know you have aledged toxic TMId me, but which slots are you referring to as having forced a SvT perspective?

Any chance of an answer to this one, Norwee?

I'm willing to consider I'm looking in the wrong direction, and I don't buy the TMI thing, but maybe there is something in this forced perspective issue. Help me out, would you?

I was thinking mainly about the slots that just can't seem to focus on anything outside of me/Val such as Darby and Toxic.

[NorwegianboyEE]

It's like... scum perspective you know?
Not looking at the whole picture and trying to engage the game past an one-dimensional level, but just pushing for a vote on something that looks like it might go through as an mislim.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Oh right, Camel is in this game.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Confidence aside, what is scummy from Alice?
Besides, voting N_M is an universal desire we all have inside us.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Confidence aside, what is scummy from Alice?
Besides, voting N_M is an universal desire we all have inside us.

lol i was having hopes you were town but at the very least you are confirmed scum to me atp based on the preflips i have - you can go after alice.

Hmph.
I do like the attitude though.

[NorwegianboyEE]

hmm yeah thats a fine explanation ig

the pics my idea on this wagon, not u specifically btw sorry if it seemed like it LOL

No you don’t get to say that.

Toxic has done literally nothing townie, so shaddup.

I hate white knighting.

[NorwegianboyEE]

In what way is it interesting?

[NorwegianboyEE]

Yeah Jolyne. You should know better than anyone that it is smarter to vote on an leading wagon that you consider as likely to hit scum, than to vanity wagon Alice while the wagon on me stays.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Redtea unvoting in favour of Toxic is kinda weird though and i’d like them to explain their progression here.

@Redtea do you still think i’m scum?

[NorwegianboyEE]

Weren’t you the one that said you were going to do some convincing on why i am scum?

[NorwegianboyEE]

Apologies for my activity sins. I completely understand why I'm getting wagon'd for that. But, that doesn't make the wagon on me any less opportunistic. My content is so low that the only valid argument is I am potentially lurker scum. I'm highly suspect of the slots seriously pushing for my elim right now. Essentially taking my inactivity for granted.

This is scum.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Scripted and robotic.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I RECOGNIZE THAT I, THE ENTITY BEING ADDRESSED AM BEING VOTED FOR… {Beep Boop} CALCULATING… {DING!} - INACTIVITY -
I HOWEVER WOULD LIKE TO TAKE YOUR ATTENTION TO THE POST IN QUESTION FROM @Root_Ping_NorwegianboyEE_45534 THAT HE MADE AN ENEMIC POST IN MY DIGITAL ARCHIVES.
IF ONLY I COULD FIND IT…

[NorwegianboyEE]

Even if I do end up on a toxic lem it does have a weird policy/rushed vibe to it. I’d like more to go into d2.

I don't see the point. I didn't want to rush it before, but now i don't care because i think his posts just now were scummy as fuck.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Who cares about speculation.
Just kill the guy that made a scummy post.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Isn’t PR hunting and "trying to rush the elimination", completely counterintuitive?

[NorwegianboyEE]

You don't understand why scum might be chomping at the bit to start pew pew-ing and hope they hit the mark, while giving said time-limited invests as little to go on as possible?

No.
I'm honestly not thinking about scum's abilities at all.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Koba feels pedantic.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I know you are going to tell us it's an unfortunate coincidence, that you had no idea you were advocating to a course of action that leads to a scum advantage, and a significant one, and you have just been a useful idiot, but I think Occams Razor applies.

Mate, do you think i’d ever give a shit about setup spec. Town or scum?

[NorwegianboyEE]

ok actually im stupid and claimed in a stupid way i realized my informed info would be proven wrong literally by scum not having that info
brainfart LOL
I realized bc no ascetic claim it prob has to be you val and scum will likely shoot you anyway so i thought to draw the shot

Great job Val. Your setup spec just outed a town when we could have just killed Toxic and gotten a scum.

[NorwegianboyEE]

you'd probably like us to think you don't if you're scum
in that case you could probably just get carried by your buddies

Not if they were like… N_M and lurker Camel?

[NorwegianboyEE]

You don't understand why scum might be chomping at the bit to start pew pew-ing and hope they hit the mark, while giving said time-limited invests as little to go on as possible?

No.
I'm honestly not thinking about scum's abilities at all.

I'm honestly not a fan of this (I didn't mean to mirror the writing style of the quoted post but it's funny so it stays)

You suck at reading me anyway.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Your "When has mafia ever gained anything out of a night phase except for maybe PR info" made me wonder if Marci had been right, and if "ascetic" was what else they gained from making the right NK.

Turns out, she was.

I mean yeah that's how backup works, but scum don't benefit from having ascetic during the day so why would it matter how fast day ends. You're moon logicing

Honestly Dwlee, you’re probably the most laid back and chill person here and i respect you for that.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I feel like all games where it feels like Gamma reads me correctly he is scum pocketing me.

[NorwegianboyEE]

You don't understand why scum might be chomping at the bit to start pew pew-ing and hope they hit the mark, while giving said time-limited invests as little to go on as possible?

No.
I'm honestly not thinking about scum's abilities at all.

I'm honestly not a fan of this (I didn't mean to mirror the writing style of the quoted post but it's funny so it stays)

You suck at reading me anyway.

I was townreading you until recently, you suck at reading the room!

Yeah, but i was considering when it actually matters.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I still think Toxic is scummy here. His tone feels really forced and newbscum.

[NorwegianboyEE]

How come the lowposters always get showers of defense for doing nothing.
And scum typically do nothing.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Sometimes i seriously consider just playing more like N_M.

I’m gone.

Either i’ll return to explain why Toxic is objectively an better elimination. Or you guys can shade me all you want and then say it was my fault and it was totally correct to lim me yesterday even though it flipped town.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Val, can you do me a favour and kill Toxic if at any point i am confirmed town for you?
That’s all.

And in response to Toxic:
No.

[NorwegianboyEE]

"Trying to control the game is so scummy!!"

Is basically the argument.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Well thanks to Val i have no control anymore.

But on the bright side, it’s not my fault if town fucks up.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Okay yeah that’s a dumb argument

Yeah, it’s what Toxic’s argument is.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Also Val.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Dwlee #810
it's a vivid point i wont lie. Iirc town!norwee won't push shit for no reason, and he's decently accurate, so a town flip will be very informative anyway.

And then you vote norwee anyway

If i’m recently accurate then why would Redtea trust Toxic over me when if i’m correct i might catch more scum. While Toxic is useless?

[NorwegianboyEE]

Dwlee #810
it's a vivid point i wont lie. Iirc town!norwee won't push shit for no reason, and he's decently accurate, so a town flip will be very informative anyway.

And then you vote norwee anyway

If i’m recently accurate then why would Redtea trust Toxic over me when if i’m correct i might catch more scum. While Toxic is useless?

What's your read on redtea?

Probably light town. I don’t trust them at the level you do. But i also don’t think they’ve been doing anything overtly scummy.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Anyway, the only elimination i think is good today is Toxic. So paranoia on Redtea aside, he’s not going today.

[NorwegianboyEE]

How so wrt that being “the only good elim”?

Because of the scummy tone in his posts.
I’m not convinced by any of the defense’s made from other players, or follow-up posts from Toxic since then.
Guy is just mafia.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I’m quite astonished that anyone is impressed by the easily fake-able garbage case on me he’s posted.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Why do i even bother.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Just lim me, have Val eat crow. Then kill Toxic.
Fine enough plan.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I can’t work with any of you.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Except Dwlee.

[NorwegianboyEE]

So i don’t care.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Is there a set number that is usual with mini normals?

13 players is either 2 or 3 mafia. Most usually 3, but sometimes 2.
Never 4.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Is that never 4 a rule that comes with normals, or is it just outside your experience to have more than 3?

I've never seen 4 mafia in a 13 player setup.

[NorwegianboyEE]

It has to do with balancing i think. There is no rule that explicitly says it's disallowed.
Having 4 mafia is just really overpowered, and no matter how stacked town is to counter. It probably won't pass review.

13 player setups also cannot have any secondary mafia teams or third-party roles. So it is confirmed for there to only be one group of bad guys. Of which i'd say is very likely to be numbered at three, but i have seen setups with two.

[NorwegianboyEE]

in my experience its only 2

2? Really? I've only seen a very select few games with that.

[NorwegianboyEE]

That's going straight to my cringe in mafia youtube compilation (GONE WRONG)

[NorwegianboyEE]

stop
we can DO THIS

nah

[NorwegianboyEE]

I'm standing by the side of the road and giving a free pass for anyone to walk by.
Not sure how i am "standing in the way" of you/Dwlee/Joyle talking, but ok.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I'm standing by the side of the road and giving a free pass for anyone to walk by.
Not sure how i am "standing in the way" of you/Dwlee/Joyle talking, but ok.

At what point do we make the argument for policy?

?

[NorwegianboyEE]

I’m kinda siding with Joyle in this one.
Some reads are obvious.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Checking 6 scum games is probably townie yeah.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Why Alice though?

[NorwegianboyEE]

Just rep them.
They’re literally useless.