Mini Normal 2248 | A Member Of The Arsonists | Town wins

[DArby]

VOTE: Thynhith

A man of culture.

VOTE: Thyn

[DArby]

yes

VOTE: StD

[DArby]

I'm fine with a wagon on me if it moves things along. The reason for the naked vote was pointed out by StD himself so there's nothing more for me to add.

The game probably should move along in a direction, though.

[DArby]

Why=fry

Why?

My way of words was a bit controversial in my last game.

Why?

Out of policy this can go.

VOTE: Why

[DArby]

Why=fry

Why?

My way of words was a bit controversial in my last game.

Why?

Out of policy this can go.

VOTE: Why

Do you not think that there's enough content to be able to form even a couple of rudimentary reads? Thus kinda feels like you're just trying to take an easy way out.

This is a vote that I don’t want this and is divorced from my reads.

[DArby]

jesus fucking christ i'm not i'm just voting the fucker i can't lim him by myself people should stop acting like i can

all i'm saying is it's not a waste

This made me laugh out of relatability.

I’m confident you’re town.

[DArby]

Not_Mafia replaces IOnlyAskWhy.

Out of the frying pan and into the fire.

[DArby]

I’ll have something actually productive to say this afternoon. I’m at work now but wanted to skim.

[DArby]

I'm lost in this argument

Not_Mafia replaces IOnlyAskWhy.

Out of the frying pan and into the fire.

You main xiangling or something?

I don’t know who that is.

[DArby]

UNVOTE:

One more n_m vote and I wouldn’t be surprised if he self hammered.

[DArby]

std town pan lean town the end

Change to pan lean scum and we’d have the same read.

[DArby]

kill darby

My inactivity is NAI and site wide.

[DArby]

can we not policy them and waste a mislim

TMI?

Wait wtf

bc pan said "mislim" as opposed to "lim"
scum knowing why will flip town

When did you change from this to lean town Pam?

[DArby]

UNVOTE:

One more n_m vote and I wouldn’t be surprised if he self hammered.

Why?

Why what? Why would I not be surprised if you self hammered?

[DArby]

Pan: I acted scummy
Also pan: I'm scum reading the only person who's correctly scumreading me

I had to read those posts a few times myself. Fucking wild.

[DArby]

std town pan lean town the end

Change to pan lean scum and we’d have the same read.

What is scummy about my play thus far?

i started the game in a scummy way in order to try to get read as traitor and see who townreads me in a poor way - i was hoping to hold the discrete test for a bit longer but since wagons are going the way I don't want I am claiming it now.

I’m not even going to make an argument.

[DArby]

Pan towny

cookie scummy

We don't need to policy Why because he isn't negatively impacting thread health.

Why is egix towny?

Everyone should post their reads because it only feels like Pan, T3 and I are interacting with the thread.

I'll explain stuff soon.

When did Pan become town to you? You say this with a vote on their slot.

[DArby]

VOTE: Pan

[DArby]

Pan towny

cookie scummy

We don't need to policy Why because he isn't negatively impacting thread health.

Why is egix towny?

Everyone should post their reads because it only feels like Pan, T3 and I are interacting with the thread.

I'll explain stuff soon.

When did Pan become town to you? You say this with a vote on their slot.

What are you trying to say here?

Where is everyone
Egix needs to post some thoughts, I haven't seen anything besides questions from them in a while.

I'm just asking why you waited a while between saying they're town and unvoting them.

[DArby]

Mind you- fypov one of those slots are confirmed green (yourself!) So whats up darby? Am i talking too much? Being too aggressive?
Gonna pull out a noob reason on me?

I'm not a fan of your play style, no, but my vote is specifically on how sporadic your style is. You come across as unreliable to the town so you're able to backtrack easier if hard pushed. I don't trust that.

[DArby]

I guess 'keep players like Why in for an easy win'
It's not that implausible I guess. I don't feel particularly strongly about Pat-town anymore but they don't really feel like scum either

I guess a good way of putting it is that it feels like they think they're trying to solve. I think they think they're playing how town should.

I don't think they're trying to solve when they've almost exclusively have been on the defense.

It feels like busy work that they

seem

like they're doing work when they're just dismantling wagons and pushes against them.

The way pan is covering their ground to play this "scum-like but not scum" style is their attempt of trying to get away with wild and aggro playing without scrutany. This feels like scum playing hardball.

[DArby]

That's fine. I'm in no rush to make a legit wagon. This is just where I'm happy to leave my vote now.

[DArby]

I've got no idea what Darby's doing and I find it really scummy and I don't really know why nil

What do you not understand?

[DArby]

Mind you- fypov one of those slots are confirmed green (yourself!) So whats up darby? Am i talking too much? Being too aggressive?
Gonna pull out a noob reason on me?

I'm not a fan of your play style, no, but my vote is specifically on how sporadic your style is. You come across as unreliable to the town so you're able to backtrackasier if hard pushed. I don't trust that.

Fucking cope with it.
You can call it whatever it is but don't claim your push on me isnt for playstyle reasons.
If you want to find scum i suggest you put your fee fees away and learn to play with people who take initiative in a hard way. Also those people tend to be town

It’s reductionist to say my entire argument is based solely off of your play style when I broke down my gut read of why I don’t trust you.

Im not going to argue with you like this. If you have something specific you have a problem with what I said, let’s talk about it.

[DArby]

wah wah
In the latter quote the implication was "scummy in the way scum usually think they can push on/noob town will push on"
I dont explain every facet of what i mean but if you're so hopelessly lost I need to for you you only need to ask instead of assuming the worst.

I'm assuming you're an alt? It's weird being noob trolled by an account less than 3 weeks old.

42 is weird. Ben didn't like how you were posting and voted you, sure, but it was based on something rather inconsequential. If 42 is really a way to show how you're generating content, that's a poor way of doing so. If you are town, then putting suspicion on your slot is not pro-town. Not only does that waste time by having us push a town slot, but it also shows that you're unreliable. With quite literally one vote that wasn't yourself, you "outed" your playstyle already. This does not help town.

If you are scum then what you're doing is showing that you have a precedent in not having anything you say to be taken at face value. What you're allowing is if you do get seriously pushed in the future, you can say that you were once against just being scummy to create content and find "obvious noob" town to push you or something to that affect. That is, once again, not pro-town. It'd make more sense to do what T3 did in 26. Assuming T3 is town, what he's doing is pushing suspicion on a slot he does not know the alignment on. Not only will this generate content for the town (making it pro-town), but it also generates content for him, which is town indicative. He's also not making himself an untrustworthy slot, which is also pro-town. It's not helpful for the town collective for a town slot to put suspicion on themselves.

I could be missing something, and I'm always willing to learn. If there's more to this, please do point it out.

Again, I assume you're an alt so you should know this. This is not me explaining the obvious but rather

because

I think you know this, I think you're playing a gambit that you're not hinting at, which is scummy.

There's more, sure. But I don't like to wall post and this is long enough.

Well I would rather set up a gamestate that helps us overall solve the game than lazily waste the important info gathering day

Okay wait I’ve seen you do this before you’re town

Link?

[DArby]

Why is darby commenting on old stuff that he probably knows I won't respond to

Because you weren’t my target audience.

[DArby]

@Pan I’m on mobile now, I’ll answer your question about my wagon soon-ish when I get back home. I don’t think I could format it well now.

In the meantime, could you elaborate on 314? I know you don’t mean I’m pocketing you, but how is it backwards?

Also, I appreciate 312. :)

[DArby]

maybe I'm tunneled on Darby

I don’t think you’d get much from me d1’s in general. I feel most of what I say is NAI and is just pointing out things.

[DArby]

Lmao and here I was interacting with Pan expressly with my experience with Koba and now I know why.

[DArby]

Well Koba and Norwe, but still.

[DArby]

Lets try refocusing in a way that is productive: do you think the wagon on you is pure that you're suspicious outside? At the very least i ask you to bin me until d2 at least - as a show of good faith that i am helping your wagon dissolve here and push you as town.

I know we arent going to agree on my playstyle but im willing to adjust for someone i townread - I'm an open book. I laid my hand on the table.
I like to stay 2 steps ahead of scum if i can - im just honest about the manipulative tactics i use because im.not on my main and people on this playerlist are less accustomed to my playstyle.

Now that I'm on computer again I can properly look over my voters. Thyn is NAI and T3 is T3. I don't have enough to properly get a read from either of them so far. Cookie, on the other hand, is a lean scum read. At most it's a gut read.

[DArby]

It’s NAI from T3.

[DArby]

There’s not really going on much d1 except whatever Koba is doing.

I’m good with a Cookie push so something can happen.

VOTE: Cookie

[DArby]

i sniped cookie town at a time they were consensus PoE so i feel confident i can get them town if they are.

What?

[DArby]

Shouldn't Thyn and mozamis both be replaced or prodded by now? It's been 4 irl days since either posted.

[DArby]

This is Mafia Ship of Theseus lol.

[DArby]

i findit hrd to post content when people are trying to convince other people and arguing

In what context is it easy for you to post content?

[DArby]

LicketyQuickety replaces Thynhith.

MegAzumarill replaces Klick.

The deadline is no longer frozen and is now 10am on the 14th of October, 2021, Sunday.

@Mod: I think you mean November.

[DArby]

VOTE: darby

You keep naked voting me. Why?

[DArby]

I think we just Elim StD here and if they flip Town then we flip Pan next.

VOTE: StD

i think that's really shortsighted

Seconded. Bad take by LQ.

[DArby]

I think we just Elim StD here and if they flip Town then we flip Pan next.

VOTE: StD

i think that's really shortsighted

Seconded. Bad take by LQ.

How is it short-sighted if I'm looking into the future?

Because it’s assuming it’s TvS, which I’m not convinced of.

[DArby]

Also it ignores the rest of the game and the nuances of these slots interacting with other slots.

[DArby]

I think we just Elim StD here and if they flip Town then we flip Pan next.

VOTE: StD

i think that's really shortsighted

Seconded. Bad take by LQ.

How is it short-sighted if I'm looking into the future?

Because it’s assuming it’s TvS, which I’m not convinced of.

Not asking you to sheep me. I have my read on the situation. You don't have to agree.

But in good faith, I'll ask you who you think is Scum at this point.

The game exploded during an inconvenient time for me to deep read and think about. On gut Im not a fan of the inevitable Meg lem.

If I had to guess scum, I’d say Ben is my main sr.

Give me until d2 to get my thoughts together.

[DArby]

There goes my one scum read.

661 and 669 are weird from Gamma because they use similarity from one player onto 2. Thats just bad logic. Reading more thru his ISO.

[DArby]

I still the Quick’s read on Pan+StD is scummy tho
I’d also vote StD if I had to tho because I feel like his level of give-a-damn seems a bit scummy

VOTE: StD
I actually like that LQ had the guts to vote Pan

Agreed with StD. Not only this is a bad take but it contradicts itself with no progression.

[DArby]

Bad logic =/= scum.

However, I’m fine putting pressure here for now.

VOTE: Gamma

[DArby]

I was the target of the neighborizor btw

I don’t trust this.

[DArby]

Lmao totally forgot Gamma replaced Cookie. Double don’t trust this slot now.

[DArby]

I was the target of the neighborizor btw

I don’t trust this.

Ok and?

Ok and I don’t want you to weasel your way into saying your a confirmed role without question.

[DArby]

I was the target of the neighborizor btw

I don’t trust this.

Why not?

Reasons.

[DArby]

I still the Quick’s read on Pan+StD is scummy tho
I’d also vote StD if I had to tho because I feel like his level of give-a-damn seems a bit scummy

VOTE: StD
I actually like that LQ had the guts to vote Pan

Agreed with StD. Not only this is a bad take but it contradicts itself with no progression.

Wrong. I didn’t like how it felt like Quick was chaining mislims. The Pan vote changed my feelings about that, because before then it felt like LQ was setting Pan up to take a fall when StD flipped town.

I see where you're coming from then.

[DArby]

StD why do I keep you Darby and LQ alive?

I said I don't trust you. That has nothing to do with my read on you. Please calm down while I read through d2.

[DArby]

I claimed miller day 1.
I am not a confirmed role - I am the confirmed TARGET of a role.

Unless you think I am scum who is making this up and:

a) roleblocked the person I am killing(happens in mafia games but not in Normal ones!)
b) was rolestopped and magically guessed ben's target was me and am risking a cc

or I am town who is lying about being successfully neighborized
a) big braining that scum did roleblock their kill for whatever reason
b) big braining that i was both rolestopped and targeted by ben

now PLEASE stop this terribad logic about my neighborized claim

I don't feel comfortable getting into mech arguments because I'm getting used to them, but in regards to your first a), are you saying it's not possible for one scum to roleblock and the other to kill, or are you saying it's not possible for one scum to roleblock and kill? Because if the first is possible in normal then I don't think that makes you confirmed.

[DArby]

I was the target of the neighborizor btw

I don’t trust this.

Why not?

Reasons.

Darby is town

holy shit i just realized what he was referencing bc you quoted it lmao now i get it and understandable LOL

Thank you.

[DArby]

but nah thats not the case here

This made me snort out of frustration and amusement.

[DArby]

VOTE: gamma emerald
whatever, this game is basically filled with gamethrowing assholes
let this serve as a reminder to never replace into a game blind because it's fucking miserable

Regardless of alignment, I'm sorry you've felt this way about the game

[DArby]

I’m writing this currently on a google doc the midnight before d3, and I will be so mad if I somehow end up nk’ed. The second half of d1 took me by complete surprise in pace and intensity so I wasn’t able to properly catch up as I’d like to until now. This hit me while I was about to go to sleep so here we are.

The big question that was ignored, and I feel was done intentionally, was why was Ben specifically killed n1? That’s a really huge question. N1 kills should be reserved for the slot that is the biggest danger to scum OR gives scum the biggest long game advantage. So why Ben? What does scum get out of killing a slot with literally one scum read and a final vote on a vt?

I firmly believe it’s the latter. Specifically I am of the opinion that the nk was done to give an opportunity for scum.

Now as I’m writing this before the n2 kill happens I have no idea if this hypothesis will hold. I will be at work during the time d3 starts. I will add an addendum if necessary, however I cannot make a post in time to do this thought justice, as I truly believe time is of the essence.

Here is what I mean: I believe the Ben nk and the Gamma wagon were coordinated efforts by Pan aka Koba to control the narrative and play a long con game to secure a scum victory.

As I don’t feel like running this in a text editor, all posts referenced will not be hyperlinked.

First, the obvious, what were Ben’s stances while he was still alive d1.

Ben played by mostly producing town reads, which he reiterated multiple times. 511 where he produced the “only ones” he could form reads on and 790 where most of his reads were town or null except the d1 mislim and Gamma, who was scum. Sure, you could make the argument that since Gamma was the only other scum read he had that scum was scared he was close. Me being able to post this in d3 is proof against that theory as according to 799 I was the only person to hold a vote on Gamma until the end. Granted, my push wasn’t amazingly strong, but it was stronger than Ben’s.

So then, why Ben? What was the point of taking him out. With as how many lines were drawn during the end, surely there was a better threat to take out.

And I think that was the point. I don’t think scum could have known his role somehow during n1 before he was killed. However he was one of the most divorced players from the game (ie, being in the least amount of confrontations) while also being a player that could be taken seriously. He was projectable, and that’s how his nk was treated by Pan.

Look at 813. We cannot prove if Pan is or is not part of the neighborhood. There is no way that they can be cc’d. I believe that was quick thinking on their part. Pan has been trying to make themselves be seen an conf town since early d1 (262, 327, and 430 (which I also skimmed thru at first, thank you for your value in me, sorry my input is leading to this)). If I were scum, and a competent and trusted townie that can be projected on post mortem that also tr’s me dies, I’d milk that dry. Not to mention Ben’s only other spoken scum read, although weak, is scum (which I’d know as I am hypothetically scum). This is the perfect target.


Of course, Gamma was an informed mafia. Does that mean that scum knew directly that Gamma was scum? No. However, I still believe Pan would still want to hunt down the informed at least for the same reason as above: towncred. Assuming scum didn’t know who the informed was, they’d either know there was one or could guess. It was mentioned before (by T3 I think).

Gamma was a replacement for Cookie who was on the block mid d1, but they were on the block because of Pan. Again, if we follow this line of logic, from the start Pan is actively trying to look as town as possible and is using aggressive argument styles which would push away anything but a strong and confident read against them. If they catch scum d1, that would put their towncred through the roof. To my knowledge the only thing that stopped Pan from getting what they wanted originally was cookie repping out, StD repping in and eventually Meg being the only logical conclusion for a d1 lem.

I think I’ve made my d1 point.

D2 is where things get more interesting. Now we know Ben’s role and Pan ran with this. It’s the best possible outcome for someone who understands how roles works. They know what they’re saying doesn’t make sense for the intensity of what they’re saying. Why would Ben have a stronger read against Gamma in a PT (815) when Pan literally townread Ben for “talking to open air” in 379? That just does not make sense for someone to be open with their play style to push harder someone in private. I also don’t buy 961. It’s very, very possible for scum 1 to say kill this bitch and scum 2 say lemme roleblock them first. As long as the person killing is not also doing the roleblock, it’s not only possible but very likely to happen. But, that’s beside my point.

The point is I don’t care if Ben was or was not role blocked, I care why he was killed and how his death was used going into d2. Pan was the only one who used his death in any meaningful way to instantly control the narrative to stand next to an actual comf town. Pan wants us to believe they are a conf town in 904 because there’s no counter claim but I honestly believe they got lucky and either knew or took an educated guess that no one else could possibly cc them.

And as much as I bitch about meta, this is the same slot that had a spat with Norwee in Squid Game about needing to take time to properly find scum and yet that is a stark difference to what happened in d2 and a less than 5 page game.

I’m willing to expand on what I’m saying as I’ve made a few rough edits, but I’ll be at work during this time so please bare with me.

TL;DR Pan is scum.

[DArby]

this town is desperate to speedrun a loss and got upset i got scum limmed

Quite the opposite. I think you’re scum but I’d rather focus today to be more general solve-y. I intentionally have not voted you because I specifically want to avoid another quick day.

[DArby]

I FUCKING GOT SCUM LIMMED D2 WHAT THE FUCK DUDE

Please be a little self aware and consider that it’s very easy to see that you bussed your partner.

[DArby]

im scum

Got Em!

VOTE: StD

This made me laugh.

[DArby]

this town is desperate to speedrun a loss and got upset i got scum limmed

Quite the opposite. I think you’re scum but I’d rather focus today to be more general solve-y. I intentionally have not voted you because I specifically want to avoid another quick day.

you want me to be scum*
Please be accurate about it.

I’m not done catching up but I wrote that my logic was that you benefited the most from Bens death. Trust me, this is not a fun position for me to be in.

[DArby]

Why am i different here from squid game?

Do you remember how Norwe wanted to speed up the game but you pushed hard to do as much of a solve state as early as possible? That’s specifically what I’m talking about.

Also I’m at work and you’re posting too fast for me to catch up. Please be patient if it takes me a while to answer everything.

[DArby]

[std, NM, t3]

2 scum in this

Fmpov i think its solved with enough lims to win but obv i need to convince others which is lmao

Out of this who would you want to push d3?

[DArby]

Real talk - we should be discussing people outsidd of me

The hyperfocus on me is unhealthy for the gamestate

Even if you're 100% sure im scum - we need to discuss options - because objectively? No one knows what im flipping other than scum - so you should be prepared to solve off a town flip.
Theres 1 groupscum left - lets not fumble this.

I absolutely agree. My introduction was also specifically because I wanted to make a strong stance. I want to solve today.

[DArby]

Darby what are your reads outside of my slot?

Light tr on NM and Egix.

STD’s read it depended on you, but he comes across as null-town. This is absolutely not S/S between you and him.

I’m not ready to read T3 or LQ as I haven’t seen a scum game for reference.

If you are town, StD and T3 would be my pick, but as it stands I don’t have a stronger scum read.

I’d honestly like to figure out the Enchant NK today as well. I’ll focus more on that tonight.

[DArby]

Real talk - we should be discussing people outsidd of me

The hyperfocus on me is unhealthy for the gamestate

Even if you're 100% sure im scum - we need to discuss options - because objectively? No one knows what im flipping other than scum - so you should be prepared to solve off a town flip.
Theres 1 groupscum left - lets not fumble this.

I absolutely agree. My introduction was also specifically because I wanted to make a strong stance. I want to solve today.

1.) It could be a wild goose chase if it's just Pan here.
2.) Else, I already gave some reasons for why it could be Egix. I haven't checked Egix last Scum games from MU, but I saw a post or two from that game. If Egix was Scum there, based on my comment that Egix is more puchy as Scum, then that doesn't hold if Egix was Scum on the MU games because they posted there like they are posting here.

There is absolutely no way Pan is scum by themselves.

[DArby]

Also did you think gamma's attempt to convince me to not fos them was disgenuine? Why, if so?

In good faith I cannot answer that question at this time. I do want to come back to it at a later time.

[DArby]

this town is desperate to speedrun a loss and got upset i got scum limmed

Quite the opposite. I think you’re scum but I’d rather focus today to be more general solve-y. I intentionally have not voted you because I specifically want to avoid another quick day.

you want me to be scum*
Please be accurate about it.

I’m not done catching up but I wrote that my logic was that you benefited the most from Bens death. Trust me, this is not a fun position for me to be in.

This is garbage logic and you know it

I disagree. The only other (logical) reason I’m aware of for a nk is to misdirect and place blame on someone else. Ben’s death never did that.

That being said, Im coming up for a reason for Enchants NK. I don’t think I’m wrong, but I think I’m going to expand on my line of thought.

[DArby]

Why am i different here from squid game?

Do you remember how Norwe wanted to speed up the game but you pushed hard to do as much of a solve state as early as possible? That’s specifically what I’m talking about.

Also I’m at work and you’re posting too fast for me to catch up. Please be patient if it takes me a while to answer everything.

Hey what about me pushing to not vote off why quickly - you have blinders on because youre tunneled and you are throwing out counterevidene when you need to address everything as a whole to have an accurate read and *not* just pick and choose what matches your theory

I’ll give you points for that, yeah.

[DArby]

Is Egix typically a passive player?

[DArby]

Is Egix typically a passive player?

From what I saw, they are way more analytical and tentative as Town. As Scum, from what I saw, they have more bite in their posts. But that's only given Egix's last 2 Scum games on MS, and nothing from the links they provided. I'll get on looking at those soon.

Thank you.

@Egix: how do you typically describe your play style?

pedit: please no one put anymore votes on Pan. I genuinely want to hear their arguments. This day we need to focus on solving as much as possible. This day is only 1 hour long so far.

[DArby]

@darby when im scum i dont often bus my partners i let my partners bus me bc people regularly assume i will not die unless my partnsr is a better scum player or in a better position than me - my scum meta has proof of this and i even have a game in mind that shows my mindset as scum when unfer hard pressure

Hm.

[DArby]

why

This is peak comedy.

[DArby]

Spoiler: STD is traitor

Mini Normal 2248 Official Vote Count - 1.12

Gamma Emerald

(3): Egix96, DArby, T3

LicketyQuickety

(1): MegAzumarill

Egix96

(1): ben dover123

Not_Mafia

(1): Not_Mafia

Pan Smierc

(1): Save The Dragons

Save The Dragons

(3): Gamma Emerald, Pan Smierc, LicketyQuickety

Not Voting

(1): Enchant

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to eliminate.

Deadline

: (expired on 2021-11-14 17:00:00)

Joint moderator ISO

scum, uncharitable and very closed minded

the wonderful thing std is you can't prove me wrong on that <3 because im being honest <3

also who's STD

my new username is IOnlyPostEmojis

enjoy

What is STD at right now?

@darby

Take a look at this

@darby
Take a look at this

It's clear that DArby is Scum if it's not you as Scum on the Gamma wagon. T3 is the purest out of the bunch. But go on talking about traitor rather than group Scum.

Do you mean T3 is town regardless or in comparison to Pan and I?

[DArby]

@Pan I see it, but atp I’m not following your logic. I was under the impression that StD was doing a spoof of Why/NM’s shit posting.

[DArby]

Actually I see those are different emojis now.

[DArby]

and it is completely within T3 meta to make weird kills

Now this is an argument I can get behind.

[DArby]

what the fuck do you think Gamma was informed of in an 11p Normal

I can’t tell if this is sarcasm or not. If it is, are you saying that they are informed that there is a traitor? I’ve seen it be mentioned but I haven’t heard an explanation as to why.

[DArby]

no i think at that point StD feels it looks bad for scum and rather prefers a traitor (himself) to go down over gamma(groupscum)


and thus trolls hard.

and it makes sense here that now he is hardpushing me in order to just chain more mislims together and minimize any spew.

I see what you're saying, but I think that's a bit wifom. Given his meme like posting that I'm used to, I don't think that's outside of his townrange.

Actually, I want to reframe the idea you're working on. If you think StD is scum, what was the reason behind Ben and Enchant's nk's?

[DArby]

684 is a big reason why i think its Traitor - Groupscum interactions btw

"it's" being referred to as StD's post?

[DArby]

what the fuck do you think Gamma was informed of in an 11p Normal

I can’t tell if this is sarcasm or not. If it is, are you saying that they are informed that there is a traitor? I’ve seen it be mentioned but I haven’t heard an explanation as to why.

typically in games where there is a traitor, there is a mafia who is informed of a traitor existing, and traitor is aware of who the scum are.


the mafia who are in the PT are groupscum btw.

oh wait nevermind.

i thought scum had to be informed for traitor


there could be something completely different regarding the informed info then

This is a pure mechanics question then: So only one group scum member knows the identity of there being a traitor? What is the point of that?

And if you think there's a chance that scum could be informed on something else, what do you think it is? I can't offer any suggestions myself as mechanic information is one of my weakest abilities as a player. The wiki is rather vague.

[DArby]

Do you mean T3 is town regardless or in comparison to Pan and I?

T3 was technically first on the wagon. I mean, is it possible T3 sticks to their vote on Gamma as a bus? Sure! Anything's possible, but T3 literally voted Pan in between, so I highly doubt it's a bus. If T3 would have unvoted, then I can see T3 having Scum equity for being on Gamma, but it wasn't an Unvote, it was a vote on Pan. I already said my reason for thinking it's not you based on your vote being for pressure, which, you would have to assume that the bus wasn't planned if so. But if that's the case, then why does Gamma self vote so early in the Day?

I'm willing to entertain DArby!Scum, but Pan doesn't want to go there for some reason. And IDK why because Pan won't say. But like, as I said, Gamma kinda spews you as Town regardless.

But the strangest push Pan has made all game is that StD is Traitor and wants to vote the Traitor before finding group Scum. Can I see it in some possible worlds? Sure, anything is possible. But what I don't understand is why Pan isn't looking for associations with Gamma. Didn't Pan say they wanted this game to be 3 Group Scum because then associations are easier to make? Kinda a weird line, but for some strange reason Pan cares more about pushing the Traitor angle then entertaining that there are 3 group Scum.

Of course, I am going to make end game if Pan is Town (because I am bad) but also because I claimed VT. If on the other hand, I DO get NKed after Liming Pan and Pan flips Town, then maybe it is just you and StD here.

Still, StD is Town until Pan flips Town.

Call my TvS case bad, IDRC, but I'm sticking by it.

This is an interesting line of logic, actually. Specifically the first paragraph. I like it.

I disagree with the second, though. Whoever is doing the nk does not care about roles or reads in the traditional sense, apparently.

[DArby]

viewtopic.php?p=12914999#p12914999
OK yeah.

im dumb

the informed info is separate

this game is why i thought informed was of the traitor.

the traitor existence is part of the role pm.

Hmm.

@LQ Do you think there's scum motive behind what Pan just did? Do you think that they got trapped and tried to escape this angle?

[DArby]

I find it amusing I'm operating on a 2 page lag on this game.

[DArby]

The informed info is something else - could even be the name of the traitor but i doubt it in an 11p.

Then given what you've come to the conclusion of now, that the informed could be of anything, why do you believe that there's a traitor still?

[DArby]

Do you mean T3 is town regardless or in comparison to Pan and I?

T3 was technically first on the wagon. I mean, is it possible T3 sticks to their vote on Gamma as a bus? Sure! Anything's possible, but T3 literally voted Pan in between, so I highly doubt it's a bus. If T3 would have unvoted, then I can see T3 having Scum equity for being on Gamma, but it wasn't an Unvote, it was a vote on Pan. I already said my reason for thinking it's not you based on your vote being for pressure, which, you would have to assume that the bus wasn't planned if so. But if that's the case, then why does Gamma self vote so early in the Day?

I'm willing to entertain DArby!Scum, but Pan doesn't want to go there for some reason. And IDK why because Pan won't say. But like, as I said, Gamma kinda spews you as Town regardless.

But the strangest push Pan has made all game is that StD is Traitor and wants to vote the Traitor before finding group Scum. Can I see it in some possible worlds? Sure, anything is possible. But what I don't understand is why Pan isn't looking for associations with Gamma. Didn't Pan say they wanted this game to be 3 Group Scum because then associations are easier to make? Kinda a weird line, but for some strange reason Pan cares more about pushing the Traitor angle then entertaining that there are 3 group Scum.

Of course, I am going to make end game if Pan is Town (because I am bad) but also because I claimed VT. If on the other hand, I DO get NKed after Liming Pan and Pan flips Town, then maybe it is just you and StD here.

Still, StD is Town until Pan flips Town.

Call my TvS case bad, IDRC, but I'm sticking by it.

This is an interesting line of logic, actually. Specifically the first paragraph. I like it.

I disagree with the second, though. Whoever is doing the nk does not care about roles or reads in the traditional sense, apparently.

T3 is a chronic hard busser

when we were scum together he instinctively bussed me right away even in a specific setup.

i have 2 games where t3 was scum i can immediately pull up where he hardbusses, let me link:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=87005 (i was taco hemingway here)

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=87158
here T3 and I(Ich Troje) are scum together.
viewtopic.php?p=12885519#p12885519
viewtopic.php?p=12885765#p12885765
he immediately calls me scum out the gate(i tell him in the scum PT after this to not bus me because that is exactly what people are looking for from scum T3)

only later does he say im town when i chastise him for not making me look towny lol

Hmmmmmmmm.

[DArby]

The informed info is something else - could even be the name of the traitor but i doubt it in an 11p.

Then given what you've come to the conclusion of now, that the informed could be of anything, why do you believe that there's a traitor still?

oh good point.

but its an 11p setup - its very likely to have a traitor instead of 3 groupscum


unless you think there are only 2 scum.

but my theory fits the facts so im good with it.

Oh. Then this is something I cannot argue for or against.

[DArby]

The informed info is something else - could even be the name of the traitor but i doubt it in an 11p.

Then given what you've come to the conclusion of now, that the informed could be of anything, why do you believe that there's a traitor still?

oh good point.

but its an 11p setup - its very likely to have a traitor instead of 3 groupscum


unless you think there are only 2 scum.

but my theory fits the facts so im good with it.

Oh. Then this is something I cannot argue for or against.

just balance wise - in 13p you have 3 scum and in 9p you have 2 scum

in between you have between 2-3 scum and possibly a traitor to balance out or scum have extra power.

OH. Hm. Do you think it's possible that there's another balance given to scum? If you think the game is too small for the informed to be the name of the traitor, but you believe there is a traitor, don't you think that would be heavy towards scum?

[DArby]

This is devolving. If this is the best we can do, then this day is lost.

LQ and StD, I understand your frustration, but please help me solve here. Who do you think is the last scum w Pan? Why?

Pan, if you said it before I missed it, but what is your town case for NM?

[DArby]

To be transparent, Pan, I think this is going to be your last day. For logistics and association reads, I'll probably end up voting you anyway, and NM will hammer. I'm going to need you to adjust your play accordingly. I would ask you to claim, but I don't buy the one you've already given.

pedit: StD case seems to have stemmed from 212 and evolved from there.

[DArby]

To be transparent, Pan, I think this is going to be your last day. For logistics and association reads, I'll probably end up voting you anyway, and NM will hammer. I'm going to need you to adjust your play accordingly. I would ask you to claim, but I don't buy the one you've already given.

pedit: StD case seems to have stemmed from 212 and evolved from there.

ok i admit it I am a VT lmao

*sigh*

[DArby]

darby its not helpful to get me limmed because then i get limmed you die what the fuck happens then ?

you need to think of what happens when good town voices are removed.

there is no way anyone could consider STD town here unless they have their head so far into a tunnel that theyre blind

Here's how my vote will help:

1) You match the most logical conclusion for the deaths of both Ben and Enchant.

2) You and StD cannot be scum together.

3) These last few pages are hard to read and the only way to settle this is a flip.

If I die tonight then that's a risk I'm willing to take, especially with how these nk's are going. I'd say I have 50/50 survival rate. Especially if you are actually town. We've both given our reads and nothing more is being added.

[DArby]

I made sure to get the most reads I could out of you. I'd love to hear more from {T3, Egix} but at this point I feel they'd be drowned out.

[DArby]

I made sure to get the most reads I could out of you. I'd love to hear more from {T3, Egix} but at this point I feel they'd be drowned out.

no please, ellaborate why i kill ben because he scumreads gamma and then i kill gamma my other groupscum.


you are in this confbias circlejerk.

My post wasn't just that you killed Ben because of Gamma. My post is that he townread you as well and was easily projectible. You killing your partner gave you the ability to claim conf town because a dead conf town that tr you and sc and conf scum that attacked you were both dead.

[DArby]

darby you have a lot to learn if you are seeing red because of other things btw.

I don't disagree. I'm actively trying to become good at this game. If this is a mistake, it's one I'll correct in our next game.

[DArby]

town deserves to lose this game based on how the vast majority played around my slot

i should have just died d1 maybe that would have actually gotten somewhere

but maybe yall just hilariously lose on d3 without getting gamma who the fuck knows

darby i had a higher level of respect for your play honestly but this is just honestly i dont know what you're doing advocating for an info lim rather than trying to analyze scum


what is your read on STD?

As I said before, my read on StD is conditional to your flip. He's null town for me atp.

What more information would you like to find out or add to d3? A lot of your posts seem rather circular lately. I don't want an info flip for the sake of it. I do scum read you, and your flip will put a lot of things into perspective. Your stances in general haven't changed since d1. I doubt they'd change d4. Sure, StD is also rather stagnant, but it makes sense since you have an antagonistic play style.

I'm sad to see your respect drop, but if it's conditional to townreading you, then I don't think I really had it to begin with. :/

[DArby]

why is STD town

answer the fucking question darby

stop hiding your reads.

I'm genuinely not. I don't like circular arguing. StD and you are not both scum and my scum read is on you. It's that simple.

[DArby]

no darby your case on me is fucking circumstantial

it doesnt correlate to shit

you are just paranoid

because you think you will get snowed

not because i said anything scummy



except you know im mucmuch more like my towngame than my scumgame lmfao


but you dont wanna have that convo bc we have a bunch of ego heads in this game and i didnt think youd be one of them darby

Your play is genuinely antagonistic, and I don't believe this is done in good faith. Whatever frustration you feel should not come at the cost of playing like this.

VOTE: Pan

This is also my p-edit, but this is the third time you've made this argument this game alone against me. You then conceded the first two times. It's another reason why I'm voting you. You keep saying my arguments are in bad faith when I've actively engaged with you but I did not buy your arguments.

[DArby]

My 4th pedit lol

[DArby]

@DArby, I'd love to know what you thought about my case on Koba. Don't worry about calling it bad if it is (I am bad, I can take it).

I'm basing your reads off of 982.

Looking through the quotes, I really do like your logic and if Pan flips town, I do endorse looking through this post as a reference on reads, actually.

I don't know your meta, LQ. I don't know how you play in other games, but as I'm taking time to skim through the logic arguments you're making and the posts associated, I don't see anything I object with. In fact, I really like this post. I'll try and do a deep dive later, though.

[DArby]

oh now we are quiet now that im limmed and still talking huh

I was trying to respond to LQ's question. Please don't talk to me like this.

[DArby]

come on darby

Read this to the tune of "Come on Eileen".

[DArby]

oh now we are quiet now that im limmed and still talking huh

I was trying to respond to LQ's question. Please don't talk to me like this.

no humility from you either?

Me not appreciating how you're speaking to me =/= lack of humility.

[DArby]

btw i lied about ben putting anything in the hood i got there and ben had left nothing for me and i was disappointed lol.

????

????????????????

I mean it's obvious that you lied, it was called out so early but????

[DArby]

btw i lied about ben putting anything in the hood i got there and ben had left nothing for me and i was disappointed lol.

????

????????????????

I mean it's obvious that you lied, it was called out so early but????

no it wasnt obvious I lied


you are new here

dont tell me how the game mechanics work.


ben could have written in it.

I told you that it was unlikely he didn't write that when you said that, because it was. It had nothing to do with mech.

[DArby]

Oh my god. I'm getting sucked into this circular arguing.

The day is over and I am done.

Koba, I genuinely wish you the best, but there is no point in continuing this conversation. Please have a lovely night.

[DArby]

w h a t.

[DArby]

So I was wrong.

The town detective is dead without anything to say.

Pan’s idea of this being within T3’s scum meta is also wrong as well. But does that still mean StD?

I’d imagine we’re in ELo.

If the scum team is LQ/StD, I will be so mad. Koba will never let me hear the end of it.

[DArby]

Mini Normal 2248 Official Vote Count - Day 2 End

Gamma Emerald

(5): T3, DArby, Pan Smierc, LicketyQuickety, Gamma Emerald

[HAMMER]

Not Voting

(4): Egix96, Save The Dragons, Enchant, Not_Mafia

With 9 alive, it took 5 to eliminate.

Deadline

: Was 26th of November, Friday, 2021 at 12pm EST

Fmpov, there’s only one possible scum on this wagon. Everyone other than LQ is town.

[DArby]

Hmmm, but it’d be weird if LQ and StD were the scum team, right?

They’ve been a bit too much in sync that it’s be obvious. Right?

Hmm. Hold on.

[DArby]

Is Egix typically a passive player?

From what I saw, they are way more analytical and tentative as Town. As Scum, from what I saw, they have more bite in their posts. But that's only given Egix's last 2 Scum games on MS, and nothing from the links they provided. I'll get on looking at those soon.

It’s posts like this that make me think LQ is town here out of LQ/StD. If they were a scum pair they’d probably set up two others for the fall.

With the PR set up we’ve seen already, I’d be surprised if there’s just one scum.

I suppose I should also listen to Pan’s last wish and push StD.

On further reflection, I was pushing off the idea that the death had a direct meaning and I thought Pan was scum!panicking, but that was confirmation bias on my part. It was a learning experience at least.

[DArby]

The thing is I agree with you about Pan but I also trust town!Pan’s scum hunting.

It’s between you and NM for sure.

If not both of you.

Ugh.

[DArby]

I feel I have to for real lead and solve this game so this day will probably be long. Lol.

[DArby]

For the record, knowing what I know now, I do not regret d3’s lem, especially if this is a NM troll game.

If StD is town, I would have policy’d Pan.

[DArby]

I am town and am going to operate my scum hunting with the assumption I am town for simplicity’s sake.

I will also operate under the assumption there are 2 scum left.

I do not think there is a traitor, but I want to focus the conversation on that first. Who thinks there still is a traitor, and why?

[DArby]

LQ, don’t do that lol.

[DArby]

Also, in the most aggravated way possible I enjoy NM as a game mechanic. It’s both frustrating yet predictable in what he’ll offer town. That’s a controlled variable.

[DArby]

for balance maybe there's a traitor but i don't think there's any evidence of a traitor in this game other than it could be what was informed.

town doesn't have a lot of power but they have some power, depending on what's left there could be 2 scum left.

What else do you feel scum could be informed of?

Because, I’m thinking they could be informed of town PRs. Unless that’s illegal.

[DArby]

Gamma Emerald

has been eliminated. Their role was...

Mafia Informed

Spoiler: Role PM

Mafia Informed

You are a

Mafia Informed.

[REDACTED]

You know the following additional information about this game: [REDACTED]

Once per night, if no other member of your faction is performing this action, you may nightkill a player; assuming no interference with your action, that player will die unless protected.

You win when the mafia is the last faction remaining or when nothing can prevent this (i.e. parity or majority over the Town).

Game Thread

Confirm by either replying to this PM with your role name and alignment or by posting in your PT.

What I want to know is why are there two redacted lines. The more I think about it, I could just be wrong and the first line could be a nod that there is a partner and information as to who the traitor is.

So I think what I’m going to do is work on the fact that there was at least one partner with Gamma. I’ll work on associatives over the next while lol.

LQ will show up at some point but Egix has been mostly MIA. I’m probably looking at interesting with 1/2 of the scum pool.

[DArby]

Noted. Thanks.

[DArby]

While you’re here, what’s your thoughts so far?

[DArby]

N_M making an actual read? In this ecomony? It's more likely than you think.

[DArby]

Who thinks there still is a traitor, and why?

I am erring on the side of there being two scum left but I don't think we should preoccupy ourselves with thinking whether one of them is traitor. I don't want there to be a situation where we avoid yeeting someone just because we think they're traitor and want the game to end quicker, because that's when you just end up yeeting town and snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

My line of thinking is that I'd want to figure out associations given 2 out of the 4 other slots are scum in some way. If I have an idea of that, then I could work on a solve state.

The next few irl days are going to be hectic for obvious reasons, so I'll start tonight and pick up more Friday.

[DArby]

N_M can you talk to me more about DArby

Darby what does your scumgame look like

Ironically enough, my only completed scum game ended a few hours ago.

viewtopic.php?f=83&t=88106

[DArby]

My scum game would be less stupid than my current play, I'd like to think.

[DArby]

That was so messy in a clean way. Props to you LQ.

[DArby]

I'm the backup 2 shot detective. I don't think the role serves me any use other than to claim atp.

Engage with me how you will.

[DArby]

N_M making an actual read? In this ecomony? It's more likely than you think.

StD, this is why I think DArby could be Scum with NM. Because DArby doesn't think for a second that it could mean NM is Scum based on NM making an actual read.

It was more of a shitpost than an actual post.

[DArby]

actually that claim bothers me a bit

Why?

[DArby]

i don't know that he's implying N_M is scum or town with that post though.

Exactly.

i'm not following

I can ISO DArby but I'm pretty sure they have been silent on NM?

What is there to say? That slot is a coinflip. I had no hand in d1 or d2 because of IRL and d3 was...d3.

[DArby]

actually that claim bothers me a bit

Why?

it seems like a weird role to have in this setup? i dunno it's a pretty safe fake claim if you're scum that sounds legit it's got my hackles raised a bit

Really poor coincidence T3 got nk'd.

[DArby]

StD, Also, DArby has been buddying me too much for my liking. They have said they like pretty much every substantial post I have made and that's typically something wolves do.

If you want to look at the one scum game I posted I intentionally did not buddy with anyone that game. I just really liked your takes, lol.

[DArby]

actually that claim bothers me a bit

Why?

it seems like a weird role to have in this setup? i dunno it's a pretty safe fake claim if you're scum that sounds legit it's got my hackles raised a bit

Really poor coincidence T3 got nk'd.

You don't think T3 dying confirms your role? Weird line if I'm being honest.

It only confirms it to me. I half expected my role to be a soft vt since there hasn't been a hint at an actual detective. The odds of there being a backup isn't that large I'd imagine, so my role does seem arbitrary.

[DArby]

I had no hand in d1 or d2 because of IRL and d3 was...d3.

D2 you were on Gamma tho? Like I'm not sure what more you could have done D2 except Lim Scum, but this is another weird line.

828 and 833 were my only real contributions. I voted, but didn't have a hand in the actual push. If you look at what I actually said, I voted for pressure in 830.

929 showed me actually giving Gamma props for his point.

This is not a weird line.

[DArby]

Darby what are your reads outside of my slot?

Light tr on NM and Egix.

Why is NM Town at this point?

Pan, if you said it before I missed it, but what is your town case for NM?

Asks about why NM is Town.

I'll probably end up voting you anyway, and NM will hammer.

Those are pretty much the only places NM shows up in DArby's ISO prior to today. I might have missed one though.

It’s between you and NM for sure.

I'm waiting to see where you vote DArby

For the record, knowing what I know now, I do not regret d3’s lem, especially if this is a NM troll game.

Why do you think NM is orchestrating things as some kind of mastermind? More to the point, what does Limming Koba have to do with NM?

Also, in the most aggravated way possible I enjoy NM as a game mechanic. It’s both frustrating yet predictable in what he’ll offer town. That’s a controlled variable.

Still can't wait to see if you vote NM here.

1) Key word, light. 853 and 854 were the light tr. I'd imagine scum!NM wouldn't care enough to troll.

2) Because I was trying to peace keep. The arguing was painful to read and I wanted it to stop. I didn't know what else to ask Pan atp, but I wanted help solving from the two of you and Pan was stoking the fire.

3) Yes. How do you expect me to engage w NM?

4) I'm not really following. Are you saying I'm trying to fake out voting for my scum!partner?

5) Some kind of mastermind? Someone is objectively killing people and there seems to be a pattern. Especially if there's a traitor, only one person atp can do the killings. It's not a mastermind thing but a general scum action thing.

[DArby]

N_M making an actual read? In this ecomony? It's more likely than you think.

The drama made me pay

some

attention

For example, LQ, I could realistically see NM killing off more inactive players post-Ben to stoke the drama.

I'm the backup 2 shot detective. I don't think the role serves me any use other than to claim atp.

Engage with me how you will.

lol this claim is waffle

Blue waffle?

[DArby]

Wasn’t the context on the Gamma self hammer due to her frustration with Koba tho?

[DArby]

StD, when you read DArby's SoD do you feel that comes from the Backup of the role that flipped? Like the "W h a t" sorta seems forced like they didn't have a kind of "unfortunate" take but a surprised take. That's just not what I expect from someone who is the backup of that role. I also would have expected DArby to claim Backup right away, which they don't do, but is just stuck with the surprise of the flip. I generally see Scum are more vocal about being surprised about NKs than Town because Town typically just goes, "yeah, weird kill. Moving on." And that's not really present in DArby's SoD.

IDK, is that a bad take or not? IDK for sure.

Look at start of d2 of my first game when Galron was the NK. It’s the only noob game I was in. This is within my town range.

[DArby]

What’s SoD?

[DArby]

Darby GTH who do you think it is atm?

Egix and NM.

[DArby]

Also SoD I wasn’t planning on claiming. I don’t see why I would. In fact when Pan did it d2 I called bullshit. So why would I do it d4?

[DArby]

Then again that scum team is too…easy? Like that’s just LHF. If I got a 3rd try I’d say you, StD.

[DArby]

Mmmmmmmmm.

GTH?

StD traitor and NM informed for 500.

[DArby]

LQ why would backup claim right away?

to clear the air, so there wouldn't be a bunch of WIFOM for the day. Just, "Okay, I'm backup." Like just knowing their claim is going to look Sus af.

My plan was to not be seen as sus, hope I don’t get NKd and be useful for the final ELo.

Claiming messes that up.

[DArby]

StD, when you read DArby's SoD do you feel that comes from the Backup of the role that flipped? Like the "W h a t" sorta seems forced like they didn't have a kind of "unfortunate" take but a surprised take. That's just not what I expect from someone who is the backup of that role. I also would have expected DArby to claim Backup right away, which they don't do, but is just stuck with the surprise of the flip. I generally see Scum are more vocal about being surprised about NKs than Town because Town typically just goes, "yeah, weird kill. Moving on." And that's not really present in DArby's SoD.

IDK, is that a bad take or not? IDK for sure.

i think darby's SoD is more based on Pan flipping green than the NK

Yeah, but DArby started with a "W h a t" post and then they later explain not regretting Limming Pan? Questionable.

It’s not. T3 was going to be my push. The fact that it confirmed I’m not a soft VT and that it was a scum read of mine as the nk is really surprising.

This is rather associative logic. I think you’re paranoid because I agreed with you on Pan completely and Pan saying only scum will sheep you.

[DArby]

LQ why would backup claim right away?

to clear the air, so there wouldn't be a bunch of WIFOM for the day. Just, "Okay, I'm backup." Like just knowing their claim is going to look Sus af.

My plan was to not be seen as sus, hope I don’t get NKd and be useful for the final ELo.

Claiming messes that up.

How do you think we are getting out of Mass Claim today though? Like it's probably Elo. We always Mass Claim in Elo, right?

Believe it or not this is my first ELo. “We” don’t do anything.

[DArby]

darby why did you claim when you did

I saw how hard LQ went for Pan. Wanted to get everything out of the way to clear myself as much as possible.

[DArby]

Oh okay then.

[DArby]

why was T3 going to be your push

Koba. I’ve been operating on how these deaths line up and who would be most likely to orchestrate them. Koba brought up a good point a while back against T3 and I thought he might be scum lurking here.

[DArby]

LQ why would backup claim right away?

to clear the air, so there wouldn't be a bunch of WIFOM for the day. Just, "Okay, I'm backup." Like just knowing their claim is going to look Sus af.

My plan was to not be seen as sus, hope I don’t get NKd and be useful for the final ELo.

Claiming messes that up.

How do you think we are getting out of Mass Claim today though? Like it's probably Elo. We always Mass Claim in Elo, right?

Believe it or not this is my first ELo. “We” don’t do anything.

Okay, how did you find out about Mafia in the first place though? Like, you have to have some prior experience to play here right?

Weird argument. Just because I know the game doesn’t mean I’m aware of it’s full etiquette.

[DArby]

and it is completely within T3 meta to make weird kills

Now this is an argument I can get behind.

[DArby]

why was T3 going to be your push

Koba. I’ve been operating on how these deaths line up and who would be most likely to orchestrate them. Koba brought up a good point a while back against T3 and I thought he might be scum lurking here.

Yeah, but how are you operating under the assumption that Pan is right in their reads? Like that seems to be assumed underneath rather than anything else.

I was going to say it was because you thought Scum was on the Gamma wagon, but it seems that's not your reason. I'm curious in what you think T3 being on Gamma's wagon implies if not that they were Scum for being there. Like, we talked about this... So you are sheeping the Limmed Townie rather than me at this point and you were disagreeing with Pan during D3 and agreeing with me during D3. I mean, you did agree with Pan in some spots, but you kinda overlooked where you thought Pan had some good points and just Limmed Pan anyways. What was your motivation for Limming Pan if you thought their reads were good?

The reads were good given Pan was town.

If Pan was scum the reads are misplaced.

I can trust Pan now that they’re flipped. They’re good at scum hunting when they try, from what I’ve seen.

[DArby]

I’m still my own independent player, but we were wrong and Pan has so far caught the most scum this game.

[DArby]

why was T3 going to be your push

Koba. I’ve been operating on how these deaths line up and who would be most likely to orchestrate them. Koba brought up a good point a while back against T3 and I thought he might be scum lurking here.

Yeah, but how are you operating under the assumption that Pan is right in their reads? Like that seems to be assumed underneath rather than anything else.

I was going to say it was because you thought Scum was on the Gamma wagon, but it seems that's not your reason. I'm curious in what you think T3 being on Gamma's wagon implies if not that they were Scum for being there. Like, we talked about this... So you are sheeping the Limmed Townie rather than me at this point and you were disagreeing with Pan during D3 and agreeing with me during D3. I mean, you did agree with Pan in some spots, but you kinda overlooked where you thought Pan had some good points and just Limmed Pan anyways. What was your motivation for Limming Pan if you thought their reads were good?

The reads were good given Pan was town.

If Pan was scum the reads are misplaced.

I can trust Pan now that they’re flipped. They’re good at scum hunting when they try, from what I’ve seen.

You literally cannot trust Pan at this point because they were wrong about StD and T3 FYPOV.

So do you really think Pan and StD was TvT?

[DArby]

I’m still my own independent player, but we were wrong and Pan has so far caught the most scum this game.

So you think the Gamma wagon was pure?

FMPoV you're the only non-conf player and you're not my solve!scum team, so yeah.

[DArby]

he just called me a traitor lol

Yeah I did. I changed my mind.

[DArby]

We really can only get one vote on someone without a hammer because NM loves to LOL!Hammer.

GTH, who would you want to vote for rn?

[DArby]

This is how I won my last scum game lol. I looked to be more solve-y than other players. I don't think that's inherently town just because he's doing more than NM and Egix.

[DArby]

Well I started. How about you go next, LQ?

[DArby]

Egix post is exactly why I don’t think it’s NM/Egix.

I don’t think you would intentionally forget to mention your scum partner.

[DArby]

In a reads list I mean.

[DArby]

Actually, it makes me tr Egix a bit.

[DArby]

Fuck okay, I really hate doing meta but when I have time after the holidays, I want to look at Egix scum games. I want to see how much Egix busses their partners and who they end up nking.

Actually, this is why I think the scum team is StD/NM (fmpov as town):

There’s 2 camps left. The solvers (StD/LQ) and the lurkers(NM/Egix).

I can see NM not caring as scum, but Egix not caring with her partner is really taking all power away as scum. That leaves the team as LHF. I don’t think that’s the scum team.

The solvers are on a harmony wavelength — not the same but similar enough that it feels really genuine. That’s an unnecessary amount of planning. If both were scum, all they need is to do is seem towny and vote, NM would probably hammer. That has yet to happen, so the scum team is not here either.

That means the scum team needs to be one part lurker and one part solver.

Given the nature of the deaths, and Egix post, I’d reason NM is closer from the lurkers to be scum. Given a more complicated read, StD fits the bill better than LQ. That’s where my read lies anyway.

[DArby]

Actually the second argument could be made about any of us actually. NM HAS to be scum.

Scum could simply vote and NM would hammer because NM.

…Unless NM is the informed and the other is a traitor, meaning the other scum doesn’t know NM is scum. But still.

[DArby]

Then again, scum traitor knows there's one more scum out there, and could probably have a better grasp on who the other scum is, given there is a traitor.

[DArby]

NM would probably hammer.

I may have said NM would hammer to bait you. Sorry about that.

I'm aware of how NM plays. I'd imagine it'd carry over to ELo?

[DArby]

Mmmmmmmmm.

GTH?

StD traitor and NM informed for 500.

Actually the second argument could be made about any of us actually. NM HAS to be scum.

Scum could simply vote and NM would hammer because NM.

…Unless NM is the informed and the other is a traitor, meaning the other scum doesn’t know NM is scum. But still.

Informed already flipped tho?

Can there not be 2? Genuine question.

[DArby]

Turkey day (usa)

[DArby]

NM would probably hammer.

I may have said NM would hammer to bait you. Sorry about that.

I'm aware of how NM plays. I'd imagine it'd carry over to ELo?

I think NM still plays to win con or they would have been banned a while ago, me thinks.

Huh. Well I guess that proves NM/me aren’t s/s.

[DArby]

I don’t think he will, and if he does I don’t see the point in trusting it.

[DArby]

I didn't say that. That was a face value statement.

[DArby]

To clarify: I don't think NM will claim. Period. And if he does I think it will be a way to throw off the game.

[DArby]

To clarify: I don't think NM will claim. Period. And if he does I think it will be a way to throw off the game.

Yeah, but again, you are assuming NM doesn't play to win con. Like, why do you think that?

I don't think he'd care enough to.

[DArby]

Again, I wouldn’t really know. That’s a more nuanced topic for me to answer in good faith.

[DArby]

Then again, I doubt he would get banned for not claiming lol.

[DArby]

why

I really really hate how this makes me laugh it’s not even funny.

[DArby]

i do find it weird that half of egix's posts today have been trying to discredit arguments

As opposed to what?

[DArby]

Spoiler: Context

Also, I do feel like you should claim atp StD.

vt

Egix post is exactly why I don’t think it’s NM/Egix.

I don’t think you would intentionally forget to mention your scum partner.

yes im totally poeing my partners here thats definitely it egix

explain your reads so i can actually attack what i expect is bad logic on my slot.

ben - I like 61 and posts such as 27, 175, 190 seem invested in moving the game along.
This is not something I would lock in but it's the best I've got.

T3 - Similarly to ben, attempted to get the ball rolling on page two. Also I kinda don't feel like scum posts 232.

Darby - Town feels from 249 and 297, more so from the latter.

Mozamis - Mild T feels from 101, 186.

Dragons - Just gut here really, he should be more like null but he's posted more than Thy/NM have.

Klick - Entrance to thread was awkward, posts like 233 and 280 feel like not wanting to state something until someone else already has.

cookie - reasons I stated before, plus 129 feels like scum waxing philosophical as a distraction tactic.

Smierc - Hard defends Why/NM slot despite seemingly only having a minor reason to TR them (62). 150 seems too nonsensical to be a sensible strategy.
256 also feels like a distraction tactic.

Like its so wild when im opewolfing and refuse to explain my reads i breeze through to limlo or close to it but when im town and i am trying my best to explain shit in a way others will undertand its like hurr durr scum koba!!!
Just admit u suck at using meta and move on!

To be clear, my read on you has nothing to do with meta and you outing your main did not affect my read.

I would have really liked a Why/NM read at this point...

Fuck okay, I really hate doing meta but when I have time after the holidays, I want to look at Egix scum games. I want to see how much Egix busses their partners and who they end up nking.

Actually, this is why I think the scum team is StD/NM (fmpov as town):

There’s 2 camps left. The solvers (StD/LQ) and the lurkers(NM/Egix).

I can see NM not caring as scum, but Egix not caring with her partner is really taking all power away as scum. That leaves the team as LHF. I don’t think that’s the scum team.

The solvers are on a harmony wavelength — not the same but similar enough that it feels really genuine. That’s an unnecessary amount of planning. If both were scum, all they need is to do is seem towny and vote, NM would probably hammer. That has yet to happen, so the scum team is not here either.

That means the scum team needs to be one part lurker and one part solver.

Given the nature of the deaths, and Egix post, I’d reason NM is closer from the lurkers to be scum. Given a more complicated read, StD fits the bill better than LQ. That’s where my read lies anyway.

Actually the second argument could be made about any of us actually. NM HAS to be scum.

Scum could simply vote and NM would hammer because NM.

…Unless NM is the informed and the other is a traitor, meaning the other scum doesn’t know NM is scum. But still.

Not really getting why NM HAS to be Scum here? Like this seems like jumping to conclusions which I haven't really seen from DArby so far. So far DArby has been fine with weighing their options. But all the sudden in Elo when DArby

should

be more cautions they throw caution to the wind.

I feel like this move is based on fear. StD just claimed VT. Both StD and I have been finding Egix Sus. This seems to be the order and why DArby all the sudden makes a very uncharacteristic "Fuck, Okay" post. DArby hasn't really used this kind of language. They were very polite to Pan who was actually quite harsh with DArby, but DArby never retaliated. Just don't get this expressed emotion from DArby here. Seems like it's made to cover something up.

Also, the line where DArby says, "Scum could simply vote and NM would hammer because NM." is basically saying they don't think NM plays to wincon. But we already talked about this here:

NM would probably hammer.

I may have said NM would hammer to bait you. Sorry about that.

I'm aware of how NM plays. I'd imagine it'd carry over to ELo?

I think NM still plays to win con or they would have been banned a while ago, me thinks.

Huh. Well I guess that proves NM/me aren’t s/s.

Which isn't really an answer.

It's like DArby is expecting NM to do something they don't like. I have my suspicions about this, but I will wait to talk about that for now.

I had this saved as a draft in case NM claimed PR, but I guess it's bunk at this point.

Let me say f*ck

I don’t really thinks that’s a strong argument. I’ve been lead to believe NM typically had a specific MO and so far in my interactions with him he’s followed through with it. You brought up that he would otherwise be banned, which is new information to me. Again, I think you assume I know more then I do. I’m also not sure what I’d get out of making that post as scum. If I was scum and was honest with that post, wouldn’t I at least try to test it out myself? If I’m lying and trying to bait town into something, what is it?

My SvS post still stands. It should be obvious that at the very least NM and I are not the scum team.

Also what did you want out of posting that if you felt it was bunk?

[DArby]

i'm hesitant to believe darby's claim for that reason but i think his play is townie so i'm torn

Who is Group Scum with DArby tho?

I sorta feel like DArby isn't the Lim for the day because they were well placed on Gamma, and I buy their explanation that they were just not here when Gamma was going to eat dirt. It lines up with their pressure vote on Gamma pretty well actually.

Could you compromise on NM?

[DArby]

Did I say I would?

[DArby]

Oh yeah the meta reading.

[DArby]

Really though, has a back-up of an X-Shot role ever appeared in a normal before?

Why would I deliberately choose something outlandish?

[DArby]

Spoiler: Context

Also, I do feel like you should claim atp StD.

vt

Egix post is exactly why I don’t think it’s NM/Egix.

I don’t think you would intentionally forget to mention your scum partner.

yes im totally poeing my partners here thats definitely it egix

explain your reads so i can actually attack what i expect is bad logic on my slot.

ben - I like 61 and posts such as 27, 175, 190 seem invested in moving the game along.
This is not something I would lock in but it's the best I've got.

T3 - Similarly to ben, attempted to get the ball rolling on page two. Also I kinda don't feel like scum posts 232.

Darby - Town feels from 249 and 297, more so from the latter.

Mozamis - Mild T feels from 101, 186.

Dragons - Just gut here really, he should be more like null but he's posted more than Thy/NM have.

Klick - Entrance to thread was awkward, posts like 233 and 280 feel like not wanting to state something until someone else already has.

cookie - reasons I stated before, plus 129 feels like scum waxing philosophical as a distraction tactic.

Smierc - Hard defends Why/NM slot despite seemingly only having a minor reason to TR them (62). 150 seems too nonsensical to be a sensible strategy.
256 also feels like a distraction tactic.

Like its so wild when im opewolfing and refuse to explain my reads i breeze through to limlo or close to it but when im town and i am trying my best to explain shit in a way others will undertand its like hurr durr scum koba!!!
Just admit u suck at using meta and move on!

To be clear, my read on you has nothing to do with meta and you outing your main did not affect my read.

I would have really liked a Why/NM read at this point...

Fuck okay, I really hate doing meta but when I have time after the holidays, I want to look at Egix scum games. I want to see how much Egix busses their partners and who they end up nking.

Actually, this is why I think the scum team is StD/NM (fmpov as town):

There’s 2 camps left. The solvers (StD/LQ) and the lurkers(NM/Egix).

I can see NM not caring as scum, but Egix not caring with her partner is really taking all power away as scum. That leaves the team as LHF. I don’t think that’s the scum team.

The solvers are on a harmony wavelength — not the same but similar enough that it feels really genuine. That’s an unnecessary amount of planning. If both were scum, all they need is to do is seem towny and vote, NM would probably hammer. That has yet to happen, so the scum team is not here either.

That means the scum team needs to be one part lurker and one part solver.

Given the nature of the deaths, and Egix post, I’d reason NM is closer from the lurkers to be scum. Given a more complicated read, StD fits the bill better than LQ. That’s where my read lies anyway.

Actually the second argument could be made about any of us actually. NM HAS to be scum.

Scum could simply vote and NM would hammer because NM.

…Unless NM is the informed and the other is a traitor, meaning the other scum doesn’t know NM is scum. But still.

Not really getting why NM HAS to be Scum here? Like this seems like jumping to conclusions which I haven't really seen from DArby so far. So far DArby has been fine with weighing their options. But all the sudden in Elo when DArby

should

be more cautions they throw caution to the wind.

I feel like this move is based on fear. StD just claimed VT. Both StD and I have been finding Egix Sus. This seems to be the order and why DArby all the sudden makes a very uncharacteristic "Fuck, Okay" post. DArby hasn't really used this kind of language. They were very polite to Pan who was actually quite harsh with DArby, but DArby never retaliated. Just don't get this expressed emotion from DArby here. Seems like it's made to cover something up.

Also, the line where DArby says, "Scum could simply vote and NM would hammer because NM." is basically saying they don't think NM plays to wincon. But we already talked about this here:

NM would probably hammer.

I may have said NM would hammer to bait you. Sorry about that.

I'm aware of how NM plays. I'd imagine it'd carry over to ELo?

I think NM still plays to win con or they would have been banned a while ago, me thinks.

Huh. Well I guess that proves NM/me aren’t s/s.

Which isn't really an answer.

It's like DArby is expecting NM to do something they don't like. I have my suspicions about this, but I will wait to talk about that for now.

I had this saved as a draft in case NM claimed PR, but I guess it's bunk at this point.

Let me say f*ck

I don’t really thinks that’s a strong argument. I’ve been lead to believe NM typically had a specific MO and so far in my interactions with him he’s followed through with it. You brought up that he would otherwise be banned, which is new information to me. Again, I think you assume I know more then I do. I’m also not sure what I’d get out of making that post as scum. If I was scum and was honest with that post, wouldn’t I at least try to test it out myself? If I’m lying and trying to bait town into something, what is it?

My SvS post still stands. It should be obvious that at the very least NM and I are not the scum team.

Also what did you want out of posting that if you felt it was bunk?

i'm hesitant to believe darby's claim for that reason but i think his play is townie so i'm torn

Who is Group Scum with DArby tho?

I sorta feel like DArby isn't the Lim for the day because they were well placed on Gamma, and I buy their explanation that they were just not here when Gamma was going to eat dirt. It lines up with their pressure vote on Gamma pretty well actually.

Could you compromise on NM?

Did I say I would?

Oh yeah the meta reading.

None of these are good responses.

DArby, why is NM Scum?

I don’t think you’re scum. Egix I’m working thru but I’ve never used the site he linked so it’s foreign to use on mobile.

NM, I feel, is one you sort by process of elimination. He makes the most sense.

[DArby]

Maybe you just thought a back-up whatever would sound convincing and fucked up/got unlucky with T3's flip

But if that’s the case why not just make another claim like fruit vendor or something that’s easier to fake?

[DArby]

Well, DArby isn't Scum with NM. I'm pretty confident of that much.

I’ve been saying as much, lmao.

[DArby]

And "My claim is so terrible it must be real" is not a good defence and I wish people would stop using it

Not what I’m saying. I’m saying that I play with the past of least resistance. I don’t really do gambits.

[DArby]

I'm trying to think about what the Scum motivation is for NM rushing things and I can't come up with anything.

Who does NM think is going to vote DArby here? Like, I put some pressure on DArby, but I was clear it was just to sort them. Seems like suicide for NM to do this as Scum. Can't get my head around it.

Don’t WIFOM NM.

[DArby]

Your mum is a gambit

Don’t say that that’s how she died :/

[DArby]

LQ why did you not account for 3 group scum?

[DArby]

Or rather why are you discounting it?

[DArby]

The wiki doesn't mention anything about back-ups of X-shot roles but I don't see NRG approving it. Does it inherit the shots of its predecessor? Does it have its own two shots?

The wiki says

Backup is treated as a modifier to a role, causing the role to be unusable and do nothing until another player with the same role (regardless of alignment) has died.

So we basically have a 4-shot detective in an 11p game? Split across two slots. The role just simply does not exist, it is nonsense.

Also to answer your question I have my own two shots. They’re independent of T3’s.

[DArby]

Also NM isn’t trustworthy. How can he post the one I quoted and then quote the post LQ posted which contradict themselves and it not seem sus?

I can’t make a strong mech argument, but I don’t think that sounds right.

[DArby]

NM vs Darby
Egix vs LQ
StD

NM, who do you think is more Scummy between Egix and myself? What is your read on StD?
Egix, who do you see more Scummy between NM and DArby? What is your read on StD?
DArby, who do you see as more Scummy between Edix and myself? What is your read on StD?
StD, do you still think the team is Egix/NM?

I'm currently SRing DArby and StD. I think I have the unpopular opinion here, but yup.

I will compromise on StD.

Egix I suppose is more scummy by default but I still tr him.

[DArby]

Also I’m having trouble figuring out MU on mobile and seeing as its 48d/24n I don’t think the game styles are comparable to what I’m looking for.

[DArby]

It’s interesting how the potential scum team is everywhere for everyone. The fact that we don’t have a consensus might be planned, though suspicion on my slot came from my bigger town read.

[DArby]

It’s interesting how the potential scum team is everywhere for everyone. The fact that we don’t have a consensus might be planned, though suspicion on my slot came from my bigger town read.

FWIW, given my new data (where there was a backup to a N1/N2 Neighborizer) I'm not reading your claim as inherently Scummy based on that. The problem comes when you say you were a 2-shot after the fact rather than right away (because that's not how the backup was used in the example game I gave).

What? No I said it all in the same post.

[DArby]

I want either StD or NM. I’m impartial to either. I’m sure that the scum team.

StD, how do you feel on a NM lim ?

[DArby]

I’ve been away for my laptop during the holidays.

[DArby]

I don’t want to read thru that on mobile.

[DArby]

I didn’t read properly and see that it was off site; a genuine mistake on my part.