Mini Normal 2267 | Music Hits of 2010-2014 | GAME OVER

[KittyTacky]

Hi everyone! I hammered this game in the queue. This is my first normal game in months, after playing a newbie game as warmup. I played with most of this list before, actually.

VOTE: Galron for never being in the same game as me before.

[KittyTacky]

reads so far:

town:
andres
galron

scumbag:
nero CaIn

Possibly plotting evil ReVenGeZ:
Tweetie / Angela

null:
gera

hidden:
DragonS

MFW I'm not on the list.

[KittyTacky]

could you maybe put to words why?

like what can be gained from this/have you checked the math yourself/would it mean anything if it was untruthful

can wait until andres responds i guess if you'd like

but i don't really get it

because I was going to lead into my analogy of Roulette at a casino. They tell you what numbers have fallen and people use that to "predict" what numbers will come next.

But probability states that the past rolls have zero bearing on the next one, meaning you could be town in 99% of your games up to thins one, but that means nothing this time around.

Does that help?

Exactly. It's the Gambler's Fallacy. While flipping a coin and it landing on heads 100 times in a row is very unlikely, the coin has no memory and each flip has a 50/50 chance of being heads.

[KittyTacky]

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VOTE: Not_Mafia

Great, I'm getting flashbacks to my previous game with NM.

[KittyTacky]

UNVOTE:

RVS is basically over.

[KittyTacky]

I say we let NM live unless there are no other leads at deadline (unlikely).

[KittyTacky]

NM is always null TBH, I don't feel piling votes on him while someone might act scummy later in the day is wise.

[KittyTacky]

It... changes the flow of the game. For better or for worse, I dunno.

[KittyTacky]

This entire exchange is bizarre but I'm fairly sure angela and Scorpious are not both scum at least. Smells slightly of TvT.

[KittyTacky]

VOTE: kittytacky

Explain.

This entire exchange is bizarre but I'm fairly sure angela and Scorpious are not both scum at least. Smells slightly of TvT.

Can you flesh that out "smells slightly of TvT?" There's a bit to unpack there.

It's a gut read. Not a strong one but it reads more like a town misunderstanding than mafia trying to discredit someone. And in any case it's very hard to see it as SvS.

[KittyTacky]

Can someone explain the immediate wave of suspicion/possible wagoning on NM? Feel like I'm missing some important meta stuff here, most of that exchange gone right over me.

NM is an infamous player with a very unconventional and trollish style of play that makes him difficult to read. He doesn't straight up gamethrow or anything but he has a shtick of hammering anyone at E-1. It's often proposed to lim him early so he doesn't get in the way, but I feel it's silly to lim a null player when other players might yet make themselves scummy.

[KittyTacky]

VOTE: angela

VOTE: kittytacky

Ooh, do me next..

Love when a slots only 2 posts are naked votes..

Love…it…

Maybe feels a bit more lazy town than mafia to me though? I dunno, no meta on Rathe but I feel like most mafia players will at least want to give some justification for a fairly lazy vote early on.

scum very much do naked votes but I feel like I sorta got where Rathe was coming from, prob thinks that kitty is scummy for hedging a bit and calling it TvT. That's an EZ play for scum to make and could point to being informed. Juxtapose that to gera coming in and plopping down a 4th vote to turn an RVS wagon into a serious one.

It was an honest read, and I didn't say it was definitely TvT.

which one is it or do u already know they are both town

I think they are most likely not both mafia and are more likely than normal to both be town. That was my take. It's not mutually exclusive.

VOTE: KittyTacky for the "smells slightly of TvT". That's like an upgraded form of the TvT tell in my opinion because Kitty A.) got TvT early and B.) won't commit to it fully

angela is more than likely town

I do not get Galron's line of questioning to gera in 151

pedit: I disagree, he's probably scum and even if he flips town it's not a loss and is something that may have to happen later in the game anyway. But I also see the arguments for not doing it. It's not so much policy in my opinion though, I don't usually vote NM d1

Hmmm I don't really see anything else. I don't like 180

So I'm scummy for sharing my honest reads so far? I'm not committing to it fully not because I am scum, but because I am unsure if it really is TvT. Rathe's push seems kinda unfounded.

[KittyTacky]

Like I really don't see why saying "this is likely TvT" is scummy.

[KittyTacky]

Like I really don't see why saying "this is likely TvT" is scummy.

do you

think any of the people who have shared their thoughts on this

are likely to be mafias though?

like do any of them stand out to you specifically/what ways do they differ from the others that you think might be more likely to be scums?

Rathe is kinda scummy due to the poor reasoning, Pooky is town from their other posts' vibe, Morning is hard to put my finger on. A bit early for a full readlist IMO.

[KittyTacky]

if you played with NM before and he did this as scum then why are you saying that its a poor idea?

Because he also does this as town.

[KittyTacky]

Kittytack is getting attention because they are one of the few players willing to try and explain their reasoning, and so just easy to keep pressure on them

VOTE: kitty

And how on Earth is being willing to explain my reasoning scummy? I really don't get yours.

[KittyTacky]

No seriously. "This player is putting effort into the game, that's worthy of a vote." Christ.

VOTE: geraintm

[KittyTacky]

Kittytack is getting attention because they are one of the few players willing to try and explain their reasoning, and so just easy to keep pressure on them

VOTE: kitty

And how on Earth is being willing to explain my reasoning scummy? I really don't get yours.

This exchange feels like a poor distancing attempt.

No it's just an inane push.

For those unfamilar gerain hates playing D1 and he has done pretty much nothing out of the usual this game

I'm unsure why Galron and Nero (and now Rathe/Kitty) are mentioning him so much for how little he is playing..

I'm mentioning him because his reasoning for voting me makes no sense.

[KittyTacky]

Kittytack is getting attention because they are one of the few players willing to try and explain their reasoning, and so just easy to keep pressure on them

VOTE: kitty

And how on Earth is being willing to explain my reasoning scummy? I really don't get yours.

It can be made to appear summy by those who want to, because you are one of the few players giving out stuff to work with.

Okay, so you are voting someone you feel is contributing to the game positively? For "pressure"?

[KittyTacky]

I think Kitty has made themselves the LHF of D1… not ready to vote there yet but I’m not opposed to that wagon.
I want to see less angst and more hunting.

Angela comes of to me as a slightly less verbal Frozen Angel.. very hard to read

When I first played with Ger i immediately thought scum based on playstyle but as this being the second game with them and their explanations on not liking D1. With that being said though, that’s not really an excuse to mail in Day 1. I hope they keep notes or something. While I agree most D1’s end in mislim, I don’t think it should be dismissed entirely.

This isn’t a read list btw, so I’m not excluding anyone on purpose just thinking textually..

It's not angst, it's confusion. A naked vote would be less weird than... that.

[KittyTacky]

That was a terrible reaction by Kitty because it makes an unreasonable assumption and ends all thought there. You don't say "Oh you're voting me because you think I'm towny? You're scum" and stop. That is, unless if you're not interested in actually trying to solve

Why? What else should I say? Gera's reason for voting me makes literally zero sense whatsoever and, to me, that's quite scummy.

[KittyTacky]

Does no one else find it weird that half of the game instantly shuts down any and all discussion surrounding NM for some reason?

I am not asking for him to be eliminated today but down the line I want you to remember that he's going to always be +scum and he will quickhammer all wagons on top of that (even in Xylo if he's scum).

I'm down for limming him if there are no leads or he becomes a liability. Which is probably not today.

[KittyTacky]

That was a terrible reaction by Kitty because it makes an unreasonable assumption and ends all thought there. You don't say "Oh you're voting me because you think I'm towny? You're scum" and stop. That is, unless if you're not interested in actually trying to solve

Why? What else should I say? Gera's reason for voting me makes literally zero sense whatsoever and, to me, that's quite scummy.

Doesn't make sense doesn't automatically mean scummy.

My first reaction was that geraintm made a typo. He seems to have explained it as a separate thought from the vote, which is strange but not necessarily scummy to me.

my point is that as town, generally a lot of the other town aren't going to be on the same page as you so you've got to do more than: take what someone says at face value, even if it doesnt make sense, then scumread and end there

I'm not closed off to gerain being scum but he has just felt like he's playing weird rather than inherently scummy, but people are latching onto that for some reason

Fair enough, I have very little to no experience with gera, though the name sounds familiar. If he always acts weird like this even as town then I have no reason to vote him. UNVOTE:

which one is it or do u already know they are both town

Rathe I think you could be Town. I like this take.

Do you like the "Kitty already knows angela/Scorp are town" component, or do you like

kitty mentioned that angela and scorpius cannot both be mafia n then says they r probably both town

the part where Rathe calls this a contradiction?

The first part. I’m not sure it’s a contradiction, but I definitely felt it was way too early to be calling that interaction TvT. I definitely arrived at the same conclusion. It seemed to want to defuse away from a Partner in a way that wasn’t realistic. The probing by angela seemed genuine as far as I can tell, and I didn’t immediately assume they were just off base.

It's not a contradiction, and I said I'm not sure it's TvT. It's too early to fully set it as that, sure.

[KittyTacky]

I'm fairly confident that within a few posts Kitty will vote me..

Correct. How is my post an overreaction? It's not like I flipped out, I just snarked at gera. This and your other posts regarding me read like a shade-throwing attempt. I'll wait until I catch up to vote you to not accidentally hammer you if it came to that though.

[KittyTacky]

the issue with rathe is

kitty goes "i think this is TvT"

rathe goes "you KNOW it's TvT!" without citing any evidence or providing any reasoning for this other than kitty provided a TvT

then rathe loses interest and votes for ger for wagoning which seems opportunistic to me.

That's my issue with them too but I wan't sure how to articulate it.

[KittyTacky]

I felt the “Christ” was condescending. Perhaps sarcastic isn’t the exact term. Whichever way you prefer to describe it, I would argue it isn’t equal to an overreaction. If you think someone has bad logic, and you highlight that bad logic by using a remark like there, and then you put a vote down, at most you could argue that the reasoning is bad, or you could say that you disagree. But an overreaction? The accusation seems incorrect. Look if you want me to further that thought - I think Scorpious is using a rather innocuous post to cast shade onto a slot in a way I disagree with. How about that?

It was an expression of exasperation.

[KittyTacky]

the more kitty talks about people suspecting him the more defensive he gets n the more suspicious i get

The cardinal sin of defending yourself when pushed...

VOTE: Scorpious

[KittyTacky]

I'm fairly confident that within a few posts Kitty will vote me..

Correct. How is my post an overreaction? It's not like I flipped out, I just snarked at gera. This and your other posts regarding me read like a shade-throwing attempt.

I'll wait until I catch up to vote you to not accidentally hammer you if it came to that though

.

I'm not the only one that thinks so. and I think I've reference you twice..

What does the bold even mean?

In post 534, I said I am still catching up and despite my intent to vote you, I'm not doing it until I read the entire thread. Sorry if it was vague. The vote in 537 is unrelated to the rest of my post and is due to my read on you.

[KittyTacky]

i think pretty clear kittytacky was working to scorpious vote there through the posts just because vote is in last post doesn’t mean needs to be connected to rest of post in context

however the bit about ‘don’t want to hammer’ or whatever kinda ???

like it maybe seems too planned altogether as a series of posts to have the first one also say ‘lemme read the game first tho’

It's not planned, I saw there were a lot of pages to catch up on and I didn't want to vote until I do lest I accidentally hammer him early in the day if a wagon had been built to E-2 (i.e E-1 with NM in the game).

[KittyTacky]

lets just vote Scorp, he's clearly not reading.

VOTE: Scorpious

I think I currently have the 3 worst votes ever on me right now, lol..

They just keeping getting worse and worse..

Elaborate.

[KittyTacky]

i feel like it's fairly clear angela/scorp/andres are town at this point

Not clear to me. Angela seems town to me, Andres is null, Scorp is scummy.

[KittyTacky]

didnt rly like the interaction with scorpius n pooky but i would probably still add pooky in the town group

While I agree with this, I still think Scorp is likely scum.

[KittyTacky]

Pooky is solidly town and didn't do anything scummy yet in my eyes.

[KittyTacky]

The power was out in my house for most of the IRL day, sorry for lurking!

I find the current vote tally on Scorpious quite interesting - as has been noted we're nearing elimination and he's generally had the biggest vote tally throughout the game but nobody actually appears to be pushing him or trying to solidify that block as such. Why not, if they want him out?

I really hate Scorp's reactions to me. That's my main reason to SR him.

[KittyTacky]

you know what, it is a contradiction. but once i sorta commit to a way of voting i kinda have to stick to it, otherwise to me that looks suspicious. kinda locked in for the rest of today, sorry.

it is significantly more suspicious to me that you'd lock into voting in a manner that is not particularly + town

while being aware that that is what you are doing

ah, its just me having a little bit of fun and trying to achieve my aim for Day 1, which is to get to Day 2 as quickly as possible. dont mind me, i promise i'll be better from tomorrow onwards

interesting to me that this is your aim when you've also said that you think it would be better if towns did not eliminate day one

which i assumed to involve using the entire day to figure things out and then using the information gained from nightkill to also inform decisions

(which information gain not worth loss of elimination, odd number of players and such)

and get to day two as quickly as possible has the exact opposite effect of limiting information as much as possible

but idk how alignment relevant this might be

oh, i am 100% down for no elimination, but whenever i say that i usually get shouted at and no one likes that so i tend to just think that instead of saying it nowadays.
I don't want to spend today trying to figure things out, i just want to skip to day 2 when we can all start playing properly. Dy 1 is just...tiresome. And i spent a month waiting for this game to fire and then have to wait another week until it gets going properly.

I think no lim is only a good idea if there are no leads, but there's at least one quite scummy person, why not have a lim?

[KittyTacky]

i am pretty willing to give geraintm a day one pass here even though it is very frustrating to me as well just don’t really think it makes geraintm super likely mafia

Yeah, ger reads to me more like a weird townie proposing weird plays than a scum trying to push something that will hurt town.

[KittyTacky]

I find the current vote tally on Scorpious quite interesting - as has been noted we're nearing elimination and he's generally had the biggest vote tally throughout the game but nobody actually appears to be pushing him or trying to solidify that block as such. Why not, if they want him out?

i mean, do you think it is alignment indicative that i haven’t pushed the scorpious wagon over?

I think you're at least consistently making posts and trying to move the game forward though, you're the most active player here and while that doesn't guarantee town, I feel like most of your posts are adding something to play. Whereas I feel like some other slots are dropping votes on players they potentially feel confident on without doing anything about it beyond that in a way that could easily be mafia coasting by.

names?

On the Scorpious wagon, I feel like this could apply to Nero and Kitty. Doesn't mean they're definitely mafia, could be it's just their best read so far in a game that's been light on proper reads for the most part, but it feels like a wagon that simultaneously won't go away while also not going anywhere in particular.

Exactly, I'm finding this game kinda difficult to read so far and there are people I'm willing to sheep.

[KittyTacky]

Gera could be scum OFC. I don't have a solid read on them besides "pseudo-NM".

[KittyTacky]

Guess what? My power cut out again!

I'm fairly confident that within a few posts Kitty will vote me..

Correct. How is my post an overreaction? It's not like I flipped out, I just snarked at gera. This and your other posts regarding me read like a shade-throwing attempt. I'll wait until I catch up to vote you to not accidentally hammer you if it came to that though.

It's posts like this that make me agree on Kitty...

They've totally buddied up to Pooky as well who I believe has been pushing me the hardest.

How so? Is this an OMGUS?

[KittyTacky]

are you a mason?

Even easier to prove than that..

Are you an activated IC or what? You already basically claimed it, might as well reveal?

[KittyTacky]

Damnit, I did the same thing I said like 100 posts I want to stop doing..

UNVOTE:

I’m a town mailman b t dubs

UNVOTE:
Send someone you think is town the message "I'm Scorpius and I'm town" or an equivalent tonight then. If they claim they didn't get it, we hang you tomorrow and then them if you were really mailman. 1 for 1. But for now, live.

[KittyTacky]

NVM, yeah, it could be a lie, I forgot how mailman works. Could be a scum mailman, not a super rare role.
VOTE: Scorpius

[KittyTacky]

Like I wouldn’t stop voting you just so I can preserve a mailman. There’s probably multiple elements of the game I’m missing obviously with incomplete information, but I’m not all of a sudden going to start thinking oh a mailman? That’s such an important role, I need to immediately unvote.

Having said that, what it does do is confirm at night that you’re away from where the NK takes place (unless you can multi-task), which I suppose on balance is a positive.

Can someone chime in here?

Understand the role can go either way, but we should probably not be eliminating someone claiming town PR D1 here.

Fair, but it's such an easy claim for a Mafiailman though. and Really, it's not a very strong role either way due to easily being scum, thus not autoconfirm.

[KittyTacky]

like realistically the only thing you can do with it is send msgs that say "hey if you receive this message then say ____" in your first post of the day and if they don't say it then you find a mafia ascetic?

its kind of a shitty checker?

Interesting. Extremely niche play though. Never really thought it could be used like that lol.

[KittyTacky]

i don't think this is a fakeclaim becuz it'd be so dumb to fake claim a mailman role you don't have

Definitely, it's extremely easily to prove that you're

a

mailman, but it's nearly impossible to prove that you're a town mailman.

[KittyTacky]

The claim proves nothing, even if he claimed something stupid like Bulletproof Cop in a previous game doesn't mean he is forever locked into making wacky fakeclaims.

[KittyTacky]

The power was out in my house for most of the IRL day, sorry for lurking!

I find the current vote tally on Scorpious quite interesting - as has been noted we're nearing elimination and he's generally had the biggest vote tally throughout the game but nobody actually appears to be pushing him or trying to solidify that block as such. Why not, if they want him out?

I really hate Scorp's reactions to me. That's my main reason to SR him.

This makes total sense,but you are taking a very self centered view of me...

let's make it clear, you think I'm scum because I thought you over-reacted to a push. correct?

That and your general attitude. Your treatment of your claim as something "easily provable" when it isn't also struck me as an attempt to cop out of being the D1 lim.

i am pretty willing to give geraintm a day one pass here even though it is very frustrating to me as well just don’t really think it makes geraintm super likely mafia

Yeah, ger reads to me more like a weird townie proposing weird plays than a scum trying to push something that will hurt town.

You mean, by constantly bringing up how much they hate D1, and floating a no lim scenario?

These are weird townie things?

They are if they do this in all games as either alignment, as has been said. I disagree but it's NAI.

Guess what? My power cut out again!

I'm fairly confident that within a few posts Kitty will vote me..

Correct. How is my post an overreaction? It's not like I flipped out, I just snarked at gera. This and your other posts regarding me read like a shade-throwing attempt. I'll wait until I catch up to vote you to not accidentally hammer you if it came to that though.

It's posts like this that make me agree on Kitty...

They've totally buddied up to Pooky as well who I believe has been pushing me the hardest.

How so? Is this an OMGUS?

This is not a shot...

Do you know what OMGUS is?

I do know but that looked like a shot.

Damnit, I did the same thing I said like 100 posts I want to stop doing..

UNVOTE:

I’m a town mailman b t dubs

UNVOTE:
Send someone you think is town the message "I'm Scorpius and I'm town" or an equivalent tonight then. If they claim they didn't get it, we hang you tomorrow and then them if you were really mailman. 1 for 1. But for now, live.

Few problems here.
1.What if I message scum?
2.Why would anyone believe a random "Hey I'm town" It's possible,but if I got a message like that I'm taking it with a grain of salt.
3.You're lining up lims, never good.

As I stated in the next post, I realized the problem with my plan (second point), thus making it worthless because a Mafiailman can also pull it off. But just to answer your first and third points, if scum is messaged and lies about receiving the message then it's an 1 for 1, and I don't see how lining up lims is bad in this context. Pointless now anyhow.

The claim proves nothing, even if he claimed something stupid like Bulletproof Cop in a previous game doesn't mean he is forever locked into making wacky fakeclaims.

If you're comparing that to this you need to read up on roles.

People are also leaving out the context of that claim, and of course I was scum.. and we won the game..

1. I'm not comparing it, I'm saying this is a more plausible claim but it doesn't prove your innocence on meta.
2. You could very well be scum here too.

Exactly, I'm finding this game kinda difficult to read so far and there are people I'm willing to sheep.

Most important quote and question saved for last...

Who are these people you are willing to sheep?

Angela and Pooky both look good to me.

[KittyTacky]

Okay but how do we get any info on D2?

because town will acquire info during the night.

But there's plenty of info to be gathered during the gay from e.g player reactions.

[KittyTacky]

*day omg

[KittyTacky]

are you a mason?

Even easier to prove than that..

Are you an activated IC or what? You already basically claimed it, might as well reveal?

hm

I didn't critique those weird comments because it felt like they were doing what I do often, read a post,respond,,then SURPRISE, they answered the question I just asked in the very next post..

a few things to that hm i guess

like i also asked about activated innocent child and such also after you had otherwise claimed while i was reading

and it made me think about how like

why did you think andresvmb pushing you immediately before you claimed was mafia indicative?

and also with things like that i want to make note of it to look at later from a process perspective

like does it actually seem like kittytacky hadn’t yet read the intervening posts and such

like try to reserve engineer how posts seem to have been made

I respond as I scroll down, and I missed the part where you asked about activated IC.

[KittyTacky]

What's it like playing on this site for nearly 20 years, by the way?

[KittyTacky]

I want to vote, but I think the biggest wagon is scorpions who I really don't want to vote for (because claim), and Not Mafia who I don't want to vote for because I know they are solvable as the game goes on

Just because he claimed doesn't mean he can't be scum. Mailman is a very possible scum role anyways, and not very useful even if town. My vote is parked.

[KittyTacky]

Limming NM is dumb, it's limming someone who is always null D1 (if not all game) no matter what because he plays the exact same way D1 (if not all game) as any alignment.

[KittyTacky]

STD is scummy but Scorpius is scummier to me.

[KittyTacky]

I will only jump off Scorpius if otherwise there's no lim.

[KittyTacky]

I don’t see how Kitty can literally be at me or no lim WHILE calling a N_M launch stupid.

They have made no pushes on anyone else, and have molded me into fitting a narrative. They dismissed my claim and mashed the gas again on a push for me?

Who says They have exactly ONE person in their lim pool or it’s no launch for them..


Scummy AF and feels like TMI..

Thoughts?

I'm pushing only you because you are my main SR, and you and NM aren't comparable because NM is null.

Anyways it's late in Siberia, this is my last post this game day as the deadline will happen while I sleep. Good night.

[KittyTacky]

Told you going for NM is dumb. Scorp is scum.

Scummy AF and feels like TMI..

I think sorta makes sense that he doesn't want to vote a null read over 2 scum reads but being ok with d1 a no lim over a potentially scum slot that could harm town is being ass play.


I also 2nd that Tucker pushing Gera all day and then they are on the same wagon together is iffy

Where did I say I was alright with a no lim, I said no lim was dumb before. Christ.

[KittyTacky]

Claiming a power role doesn't make you town, especially if it's a weak and unconfirmable-as-town PR like mailman.

VOTE: Scorpius

[KittyTacky]

Besides I have reason to suspect this setup has a scum mailman. Trust me on this.

[KittyTacky]

VOTE: Andante

Weird naked vote.

[KittyTacky]

Besides I have reason to suspect this setup has a scum mailman.

Trust me on this.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. Why the secrecy or implication you have inside info here? Surely better to just tell us outright.

Not necessarily.

[KittyTacky]

I'm certain there's at least one scum in STD/Scorpius.

[KittyTacky]

Told you going for NM is dumb. Scorp is scum.

Scummy AF and feels like TMI..

I think sorta makes sense that he doesn't want to vote a null read over 2 scum reads but being ok with d1 a no lim over a potentially scum slot that could harm town is being ass play.


I also 2nd that Tucker pushing Gera all day and then they are on the same wagon together is iffy

Where did I say I was alright with a no lim, I said no lim was dumb before. Christ.

I will only jump off Scorpius if otherwise there's no lim.

Don't use the lord's name in vain. Especially when you are wrong.

"if otherwise there's no lim"

Re-read it.

[KittyTacky]

Well then, he might not even be a mailman in that case lol.

[KittyTacky]

Either the role is accurate, or they’ve engaged in the dumbest fake claim ever. I don’t necessarily think Scorpious is the best player in the game. But do you really think they boxed themselves into a situation where they had to send a message and didn’t have the capability to do so? That just seems way too dumb.

We can 1 for 1 Scorpius and Angela, one has to be lying.

Good night.

[KittyTacky]

Or there's a roleblocker or something.

[KittyTacky]

Either the role is accurate, or they’ve engaged in the dumbest fake claim ever. I don’t necessarily think Scorpious is the best player in the game. But do you really think they boxed themselves into a situation where they had to send a message and didn’t have the capability to do so? That just seems way too dumb.

you know they could just be trying to frame me, the recipient, right?

C’mon this is absurd. They frame you, you flip Town, they get executed next most likely. They do not set it up that way in advance. Which is what you’re arguing. They had to claim mailman under pressure in D1. Like this is clearly not a strategy to win the game. Where’s your skepticism?

they have already bought an extra day from the claim due to my brain worms

why would you think mafia trying to buy a second extra day

would not be beneficial to the mafia?

Sigh. Scum don’t buy extra days in this way c’mon. There’s absolutely no guarantee at all that mailman as a claim buys you any additional time, because it’s so useless as a role in a vacuum. I have never seen it employed as a fake claim to save a Scum. It’s a useless role the vast majority of the time.

He once claimed bulletproof cop. I wouldn't put it past him to make bizarre claims.

Besides, angela has little reason to lie about a mailman message if she is scum either! Because she will just get killed the next day is Scorp is town. And angela is way more townie to me than Scorp. I'm parked on Scorp still.

[KittyTacky]

Either way, Scorpious is a horrendous execution unless you can convincingly argue why Scum would lie about being a mailman.

scorpious is a mafia because scorpious is lying about the mailman; it does not matter why

It’s a dumb fucking lie. No one in their right mind would lie about it. The fact that you’re trying to convince people without even a hint of doubt about this is such a red flag I’m stunned.

WIFOM. It's a daft claim but not out of the realm of possibility.

[KittyTacky]

I haven’t appreciated how Scorpious has approached the game so far, but I have a hard time seeing how they’re straight up lying about sending angela a message.

I re-read some of what Scorpious’ has been posting. I would argue they’re not all that likely to be Scum to be honest. Not the greatest player perhaps, but probably not Scum. I also really didn’t like how angela was speaking about Not_Mafia towards the end of the day yesterday, covertly trying to dissuade me from saving Not_Mafia. So I’m beginning to think I’m being fooled by angela, and the slot deserves some pressure.

@Scorpious, what did your message say?

"I am sending a message to you because you are obviously the catalyst to the game. I assure you my role is town. Side note between me and you.. The hammer was accidental" ~Scorp

It didn't look very accidental...

[KittyTacky]

Malcolm is Town. One of angela/Kitty/Save The Dragons can die today as far as I’m concerned so far.

@Nero Cain, Rathe I want to see some comments from you I’m interested in your perspectives.

But why not Scorp? Lying about not receiving a mailman message makes just as little sense as lying about sending a mailman message, and angela isn't scummy to me.

[KittyTacky]

I'm noticing a total departure from the D1 Angela to D2 Angela, It's like the independent solver that was running the game is resorting to trusting one of the scummiest players this game..

VOTE: Anglea

Scummiest to you. Because I am pushing you. Because you are a fake mailman.

[KittyTacky]

Kitty and Angela..

I'd like these answers before Gera shows.

What are your thoughts on that slot ?CURRENTLY..

Null. They apparently don't care about D1 as any alignment so it feels weird to judge based on that. I'll have to wait and see for what they are like D2.

[KittyTacky]

I'm pretty sure there's no redirector in normal games.

[KittyTacky]

Either the role is accurate, or they’ve engaged in the dumbest fake claim ever. I don’t necessarily think Scorpious is the best player in the game. But do you really think they boxed themselves into a situation where they had to send a message and didn’t have the capability to do so? That just seems way too dumb.

you know they could just be trying to frame me, the recipient, right?

C’mon this is absurd. They frame you, you flip Town, they get executed next most likely. They do not set it up that way in advance. Which is what you’re arguing. They had to claim mailman under pressure in D1. Like this is clearly not a strategy to win the game. Where’s your skepticism?

they have already bought an extra day from the claim due to my brain worms

why would you think mafia trying to buy a second extra day

would not be beneficial to the mafia?

Sigh. Scum don’t buy extra days in this way c’mon. There’s absolutely no guarantee at all that mailman as a claim buys you any additional time, because it’s so useless as a role in a vacuum. I have never seen it employed as a fake claim to save a Scum. It’s a useless role the vast majority of the time.

He once claimed bulletproof cop. I wouldn't put it past him to make bizarre claims.

Besides, angela has little reason to lie about a mailman message if she is scum either! Because she will just get killed the next day is Scorp is town. And angela is way more townie to me than Scorp. I'm parked on Scorp still.

VOTE: Kitty

You are not scum hunting an any way. You're cases on me is ahem: My reaction to your over reaction and a calim I made in a past game. And you have specifically stated you have no plans to hunt any further..

Who's my team then?

let's expand ourselves a little,enough of this TMI crap.

Misrep. What overreaction? You claimed I overreacted but I don't see how. I dislike your shade-throwing attempts and how you acted like your mailman claim made you more likely to be town. D1 didn't have many scummy people so I pushed a scumlean (you) but your reaction sealed it. But that point is moot since I believe angela when she said she didn't get a mailman message.

STD is probably on your team if they're scum (likely), but who's the third I'm not sure.

i am asking if there is a way

to tell the difference between those two things

and i assume there would have to be

because otherwise friendly neighbour is a useless role

Ah shit you outed me, time to claim then. I am a Friendly Neighbor, and I sent my message to angela this night. That's what the "reason to believe there's a mafia mailman" was, the roles are similar enough that I think there might be a "mirror" on the other team. But that's subject to mod WIFOM.

It should be possible to tell! It should say "you got a message from a friendly neighbor" or something instead of "you got a message from a mailman".

Would it be mod interference to confirm this?

[KittyTacky]

It just seems unlikely to have two town "message" roles if you catch my drift?

[KittyTacky]

What color was the text? And I think you can ask the mod for clarification, FN messages are meant to be a mod confirmation.

[KittyTacky]

What color was the text? And I think you can ask the mod for clarification, FN messages are meant to be a mod confirmation.

idk how descriptive i can be of it before it falls under private communications rule and don’t want to skirt line

I don't think "the text was green" would fall under private communications, and I feel "the messages are meant to be distinct" is something the mod is ought to clarify when PMed.

It's just super convenient that the person that is latched on to me like a tick happens to have the same type of role as I claimed..

It's convenient because such things rarely appear in the same faction. FN is basically an IC, if anyone wants to know I'm real I can easily prove it. Yea you're going up.

[KittyTacky]

It's just super convenient that the person that is latched on to me like a tick happens to have the same type of role as I claimed..

do you not think

that might be part of why they are latched on to you?

I think the setup is designed to fuck with us now..

They were latched on to me way before I claimed, so its moot what their role allegedly is.

Hence the convenience factor.

I wasn't sure you were scum before you claimed. But my role made your claim quite damning in my eyes. That's why I floored the pedal during my second push.

[KittyTacky]

And then after angela dropped the bomb and said she didn't receive your "message" I'm pushing you for probably faking a claim.

It's just super convenient that the person that is latched on to me like a tick happens to have the same type of role as I claimed..

do you not think

that might be part of why they are latched on to you?

I think the setup is designed to fuck with us now..

They were latched on to me way before I claimed, so its moot what their role allegedly is.

Hence the convenience factor.

i mean, kittytacky is either a friendly neighbour (confirmed town) or there is a mafia mailman (kittytacky confirmed mafia)

it seems more likely the friendly neighbour option to me as it seems consistent to me and i would think there should be a way to tell the difference, but i do not know it

and still you were either lying about being a mailman or roleblocked,

There can be both, the roles being on different factions makes sense, but that's moot since he apparently isn't even a mailman.

[KittyTacky]

like what do you think the message might say

based on the information you currently know?

I have no idea..

Yes or no. Did it explicitly indicate Kitty as town?

yes it did

that's what a friendly neighbour message is

i just do not know if a mailman would be able to send the same thing

i would think not, as that would make friendly neighbour a useless role

but if there is a way to tell the difference i do not know it

as i have said many times already

Mailman shouldn't be able to since, as you said, it would render the role worthless. Since the wiki says a friendly neighbor is equivalent to an IC, a FN message must be different from a mailman message.

Actually I think a mailman message is supposed to have an indication that a mailman sent it precisely for this reason. A FN message isn't really a "lettter", it's closer to a cop result on someone.

[KittyTacky]

I’ll be honest, the fact that Nero Cain and Save The Dragons seem to be taking a complete back seat this game is raising some massive red flags for me.

Yeah, Nero is usually pretty active but this game he's lurktastic.

[KittyTacky]

And then after angela dropped the bomb and said she didn't receive your "message" I'm pushing you for probably faking a claim.

It's just super convenient that the person that is latched on to me like a tick happens to have the same type of role as I claimed..

do you not think

that might be part of why they are latched on to you?

I think the setup is designed to fuck with us now..

They were latched on to me way before I claimed, so its moot what their role allegedly is.

Hence the convenience factor.

i mean, kittytacky is either a friendly neighbour (confirmed town) or there is a mafia mailman (kittytacky confirmed mafia)

it seems more likely the friendly neighbour option to me as it seems consistent to me and i would think there should be a way to tell the difference, but i do not know it

and still you were either lying about being a mailman or roleblocked,

There can be both, the roles being on different factions makes sense, but that's moot since he apparently isn't even a mailman.

Just stop, you’re confirmed town.

Doesn’t mean I’m lying.
I’m just gonna pull a mailman claim out of my ass in a game that just happens to have another super rare role in it..

Ok Kitty, I hate when stubborn people get confirmed.

You

could

be a real town mailman who got roleblocked but I just don't see that happening. Seems very unlikely.

[KittyTacky]

I meant unlikely as in the setup having both of those roles as town is unlikely. Seems counter to normal meta.

[KittyTacky]

This is how I have the game right now:

Town
{Not_Mafia [Vanilla Town], PookyTheMagicalBear [Vanilla Town]}
Strong Lean Town
{KittyTacky [Friendly Neighbor]}
Lean Town
{MalcolmTucker, angela, Galron}
Slight Lean Town
{Rathe}
Neutral
{geraintm}
Slight Lean Scum
{Nero Cain, Save The Dragons, Scorpious [Mailman]}
Lean Scum
{ }
Scum
{ }
Uncertain
{Andante [Morning Tweet]}

I don’t think there’s anything AI from Andante, and I can’t read Morning Tweet from their activity D1.

AYYYY I HAVE MY OWN TIER!!!! Nice!

Ah yes, Morning Tweet. My favorite role.

[KittyTacky]

outguessing the mod/setup is dangerous

i've seen a neighborhood with 2 traitors in it they flipped one and assumed the other was town. i also saw a game with 3 mafia doctors in it. both are considered normal.

i could see a mailman and a friendly neighbor in the same setup as town

That's why I said it's possible, just unlikely IMO.

[KittyTacky]

the other scenario is angela n kitty r mafia n making a good play but i dont believe that to be more likely than them just being town n u r the odd one out

I'm not 1-shot, if I don't die or get blocked I can send my message to anyone else.

[KittyTacky]

@Kitty can you build a universe with Scorpious Scum that makes sense to you? Maybe I should ask that too.

Yes. He's either trying to pull a mailman claim as a goon for... some reason or he's a scum mailman who got blocked.

[KittyTacky]

Do we know if you can get 2 messages in one night?

pedit-Angela already said the message confirmed Kitty as town. How is there even still a question about it?

Yes you can.

[KittyTacky]

The Friendly Neighbor message should be a confirmation that Kitty is Town and I suggest you ask the Mod angela. There should be no ambiguity there.

unable to gain any formatting clarity regarding friendly neighbour message vs mailman message

so i either received a friendly neighbour message from kittytacky

or a mailman message made to look like a friendly neighbour message

as far as i can tell

No this isn’t possible. Like there really isn’t any room for ambiguity here and this is nonsensical.

The message you receive when you’re the recipient of a message from a Friendly Neighbor comes from the Moderator, and it confirms Kitty as Town. If the moderator simply passed on a message, but it was clear in the message that it was not authored by the moderator, then it is nothing more than a message. This really shouldn’t be hard. One is a confirmation and assuming the game isn’t bastard (which I know it isn’t since this is the Normal queue), then you should know for a fact if Kitty is Town or not. You should easily be able to confirm. At the very least, you should be able to ask if the message that you received counts as Mod communication.

the message appears to be a friendly neighbour message, but i have no way of determining whether or not a mailman could have submitted that message in order to make me think that, and i am unable to gain further clarity

So basically there is no confirmation with the message that Kitty is actually town? Why are you so so certain then?

I'm pretty sure a mailman message would state that it came from a mailman.

[KittyTacky]

Are you explicitly told in the message that it has come from Kitty? If not, why were you the one who claimed on their behalf?

because it appeared to be a friendly neighbour message from kittytacky and i only later became paranoid about it when thinking about mailman claim

But what do you mean by "appeared" to be here? When the message showed up, were you informed both that it was from Kitty, and that it was from a friendly neighbour?

Do you know how FN works? It sends a message saying "<player> is town". Another player can't send such a message, even a mailman, because it would say it was from a mailman.

[KittyTacky]

Yes I understand you received a message. But a message from a mailman indicates it came from another player. It’s an important difference. The point of the role is not to confuse you or open up the possibility that you would interpret a message from another player as a Moderator communication. Because that gives the Scum an advantage that’s not supposed to be there. They’re not supposed to be able to impersonate the Moderator. This is completely clear in my mind.

but a friendly neighbour message also comes from another player

from the wiki:

"A Friendly Neighbor can target a player at Night to tell them that they are Town. The target will receive a message saying that the Friendly Neighbor is Town"

this appears to be the message i received

however, i have absolutely no way of knowing if it would look any different if a mailman sent me a message saying kittytacky was town

This is not how the role works.

You do receive a message. Kitty targets you as the recipient of the message. But the content of the message doesn’t come from Kitty. If it did, it wouldn’t count as confirmation that they’re Town (only the Mod can provide such confirmations). Like they can’t just type out a message that says “Kitty is Town”, send it to you as mailman, and for you not to clearly see that a player typed out the contents of that message. If the message came from a mailman, it’ll say: “You received the following message from [another player]: “[message]”. It will never just be a Mod confirmation with no source.

according to the wiki the role works the way i described not the way you are describing

i got a message

the message said kittytacky town

that's what i know

Well it's just common sense, otherwise mailman could be used to fake any mod message.

[KittyTacky]

For reasons I don’t intend to discuss, I believe Scorpious is a bad execution today. Let’s please move on to a different player.

Y'all told me to share

my

reasons...

[KittyTacky]

Yeah Andrew, if you don't want Scorp to hang today then share your... anti-case.

[KittyTacky]

Yeah Andrew, if you don't want Scorp to hang today then share your... anti-case.

I don’t have an anti-case. I figured mechanically we could pin Scorpious down further since two messages will circulate tonight almost regardless, and I think one is more valuable than the other. That’s all I got.

Are you sure he isn't lying about being a mailman altogether?

I can entertain the possibility of there being a mafia roleblocker who blocked him but in that case the RB will just sit on him and there won't be a message anyways. And that's not even counting the unlikeliness of that role arrangement (FN+MM as town).

[KittyTacky]

I don't understand the Malcolm wagon, Malcolm isn't scummy at all to me, it's between STD and Scorp today.

Also I'm sick so might not be very active.

[KittyTacky]

Yeah, I agree with Gera's take. It's a risk but it's a calculated one, and you can't really win as town without taking risks.

[KittyTacky]

Why wouldnt i go hard on Scorpious? If a confirmed Townie thinks they are scum, and all the logic to me makes sense, then i am going to go the same way,

confirmed town does not mean that are granted 100% knowledge, you know that right?
How many "confirmed "town have you seen with wrong reads in games? I use quotes not for kitty, but in general.

Not really defending yourself. I can be wrong, the point is that gera and I think I'm more likely

right

.

Gera,
If you’re so worried about “places for scum to hide”..

Why are you not questioning the lesser active slots which traditionally have MUCH better odds at being hiding scum?

If you’re town motivated, wouldn’t you question those too if you’re using eliminating hiding spots as reasons to vote me?

Tbh, your play, Or more the acceptance of it has my solving parts going crazy right now..

Appeal to activity. Just because you're active doesn't mean your claim doesn't seem pretty sus given what we know of the setup.

[KittyTacky]

I'll say it one more time. Being confirmed doesnt give you the excuse to stop tryuing to solve the game..

You're locked in on town and have no desire to look elsewhere, It's a huge waste.

A smart player would use the confirmation as a backing to provide actual game solving scenarios,not be hell bent on the person you've been stuck on since D1.

I'm latched on to you like a bulldog because I honestly believe you're scum, why should I push anyone aside from my biggest SR?

[KittyTacky]

Your defense amounts to "I'm town and you're wrong to push me because I might be town".

[KittyTacky]

Angela said what else I wanted to say about you.

[KittyTacky]

i think the Rb would be more focused on blocking the "confirmed" town than the person that litterally everyone is skeptical off.. No way Ktty's message makes it through tonight.

Which could be the point of the setup, Does scum block me and double down on the narrative that I'm l ying,or do they block Kitty in tellling another townie that they are confirmed.

what? why wouldn't the mafia simply kill kittytacky?

which like, yes completely my fault on outing kittytacky i know, couldn't really think of another way to proceed there

but wouldn't the mafia prioritize killing kittytacky? rather than roleblocking?

why? The only person other than me that Kitty has even hinted at being scum,is Nero..

Kitty has done no hunting,there is a chance they send their message to scum,killing them prevents that and wastes a kill..

You aren't even reading my messages (or you're blatantly lying)! I said STD is probably scum

several times

, though indeed Nero isn't looking too good either.

[KittyTacky]

Like you're blatantly trying to deflect me from pushing you, while I am pushing you because I don't think enough people are voting you.

Wow first post number is my birth year how awesomely timed.

We're the same age!

[KittyTacky]

That vote was separate in context from the rest of the post as has been said. I voted you on vibes, then decided to keep my vote after you claimed a role I felt is mechanically more likely to be scum. Then I kept my vote D2 because I feel you lying is more likely than you being RBed.

[KittyTacky]

I think for scum Scorpious it'd have been more beneficial to try and push a line that Kitty/Angela were lying. It's a risky strategy but at least presents an opportunity at escape if people buy it. And if it starts to go south, there's an easy opportunity for mafia to distance themselves from Scorpious going forward.

Counterpoint: FN isn't one-shot, all it would do at the very most is delay his death by a day... if that. From what I have seen, FN is a trustworthy claim for that exact reason.

[KittyTacky]

I’m E-2 btw…

While not a “rule” it seems like the courteous thing to do is call out E-2’s and E-1’s… Nobody in this game has been doing that..

Hence my accidental hammer. Always found it a little scummy to not do it..

Thoughts from anyone?

I thought it was customary to call out E-1 but not E-2.

I don’t want to break the rules, I’ve always considered a “gentle-persons agreement”. But don’t know it is in stone.

Is site activity outside the game permissible to discuss?

If it's not an ongoing game, sure.

I think for scum Scorpious it'd have been more beneficial to try and push a line that Kitty/Angela were lying. It's a risky strategy but at least presents an opportunity at escape if people buy it. And if it starts to go south, there's an easy opportunity for mafia to distance themselves from Scorpious going forward.

Counterpoint: FN isn't one-shot, all it would do at the very most is delay his death by a day... if that. From what I have seen, FN is a trustworthy claim for that exact reason.

If you're Scorpious and you're going out though, a one-day delay is all you need. Currently he's the prime candidate for elimination and has been for most of D2, anything to prolong that would be beneficial for him.

Fair, but I feel the play is just too risky and if it fails it's a

guaranteed

death instead of very likely.

[KittyTacky]

Malcolm is town. Wrong town, but still town. His points read to me as coming from a town POV.

[KittyTacky]

His points read to me as coming from a town POV.

could you explain?

Vibes. I really can't see how he is allegedly aware of alignments. Can you and angela elaborate on that?

[KittyTacky]

My question is just all this inane posturing. Nobody is changing their minds, everyone is agreeing..

Yet I’m still here… I’ve never seen a lim take so long, nobody is pushing anyone else, everyone is satisfied, yet no votes. Well 3..

It’s kind of annoying. You’re not gonna get me to “slip” cause I’m not hiding anything.

Nobody is pushing Gera, why?
Nobody is pushing the Adante slot, Jackson seems like he’s just waiting for me to be limmed btw. I mean why not? That play style of just sitting doing nothing had kept Gera alive..

Gera. Who’s your lim pool btw? Cause you’ve done nothing. At least contribute that..

The cases on me have been absolute shit.

Smart town should be like “well we have a claim, no counter, and their behavior isn’t scummy at all..

No we have death tunnels and scum just sitting back and laughing..

That is why this is taking so long, there is probably one scum on my wagon as of now and the lurkers are just waiting for it to happen.

Kitty is death tunneled on me. Has offered NOTHING to the game beyond me being scum
And according to them saying “STD might be scum” a couple times… wow!! What an amazing piece of detective work… you have the power of being confirmed and your game is not helping us at all.
You are litterally helping scum… DO SOMETHING kitty…

Misrep both on the case against you and my playstyle. I'm trying to townhunt and gather reads. Both Gera and Malcolm are solidly town to me.

[KittyTacky]

Because then everyone would know I was telling the truth.

it just doesnt make sense to me for mafia angela n kitty to frame u when they can go along with it n just kill u at night

Yeah. Why delay a kill by a phase and put the scumteam in extreme risk by framing someone in such a manner? It makes no sense.

[KittyTacky]

Like. Either you were roleblocked and I'm sorry then or you are lying, and I feel the latter is FAR more likely because those two roles are unlikely to exist together as town.

[KittyTacky]

His points read to me as coming from a town POV.

could you explain?

Vibes. I really can't see how he is allegedly aware of alignments. Can you and angela elaborate on that?

it’s a process thing

like it feels like malcolmtucker is working backwards not forwards

like result first and then going to find reasons for it with everything that doesn’t really fit being ignored

to me

I... can kinda see it? It could be just a "make an assumption and then try to justify it" thing. I used to play like that as town.

[KittyTacky]

? i think most of what others think is scummy about scorpious is mechanical stuff that i don’t know if you’ve read? like this acting scummy but it’s actually towny thing you’re talking about here is pretty ??? to me

Ah I see. Where I don't know or have the mechanical information to directly counter the wagon as of yet. I do think they are Town from what I have read, and thus for this current moment I would rather any wagon apart from them.

scorpious claimed mailman day one
claimed sent message to me
i did not receive said message
scorpious either lying or roleblocked

Why would they claim that if they, as scum, knows they did not.

The alternative is that two roles, mailman (Scorp) and friendly neighbor (me) exist in the same game as town. They are very similar roles that send messages, it seems very unlikely.

[KittyTacky]

I refuse to believe that they are so foolish, and that it got allowed by the rest of the mafia, that they thought that fake-claiming a mailman to get you eliminated from framing you as ascetic, which wouldn't even incriminate you alone. The claim is very likely real irregardless of alignment or fake irregardless. From what I have seen, I do not think that they are scum just from this mechanical information.

If it's fake, I believe it to be even more likely from Town than if they were scum irregardless of it being a completely flawed play from what I see.

Who in their right mind would fake claim

f**king Mailman

as town and then not back out on the claim when being run up? What's the use case for this gambit?

[KittyTacky]

It would be much more reasonable to conclude scum has a roleblocker that wanted to incriminate them since they claimed prior to doing their action and would thus be prime time wagon material

yes that is the other possibility as i have already said

"the other possibility"

It's by far the most likely possibility.

i disagree

How so?

Scum would not claim a role that is going to be immediately disproven the next day, and thus it would not happen meaning that the claim itself is real, at least regarding the mailman aspect. If scum!scorp wanted to claim Mailman and get away with it, they would have killed you last night to hide that missing ability without resulting to the less likely roleblock and even less likely ascetic target/frame.

If they wanted to take you down with them, they would have claimed an investigative role that red-checked you. Claiming a mailman that action failed does not align with framing you, as it wouldn't no matter which way you look at it. Therefore, why would they claim mailman here as scum if they were not. It doesn't make any sense as to why they would claim that in the position they were in.

Explain to me how a scum claiming a mailman without being a mailman is ever a decision that happens.

He claimed bulletproof cop in another game and won. Also even if he is mailman then he's likely a scum mailman due to what I said earlier.

[KittyTacky]

Did Scorpio claim something more?

Nope, just mailman.

[KittyTacky]

Also even if he is mailman then he's likely a scum mailman due to what I said earlier.

mafia mailman not actually sending a message after claiming mailman would be pretty ...

guess could also have technically been blocked by a town roleblocker but that would be ???

I have mentally ruled this out, for thr scenario to be mailman and Fn, and then the tow mailman to be blocked by town roleblocker who has then left today to fester like this....

It would be strange but here all scenarios are wack and unlikely.

[KittyTacky]

What? It seems like just backing up my and angela's push. On what planet is jumping onto a wagon on a widely-scumread player considered scummy by itself?

[KittyTacky]

What? It seems like just backing up my and angela's push. On what planet is jumping onto a wagon on a widely-scumread player considered scummy by itself?

I don’t want to have to say it, but Scorpious’ aggravation is starting to get to me. Unless someone can show that they’re the best actor around, I’m having a hard time seeing some of these posts as coming from Scum.

Here's a queston. It's not a rhetorical one. Answer it.

Why can't scum be frustrated when someone's pushing them hard?

[KittyTacky]

And I’m unsure as to how you can even begin to defend geraintm to be honest. I didn’t want them executed because I didn’t think it would help get us any answers. I feel a bit different about it now, particularly after their contributions over the last few pages. Like geraintm seems too convinced Scorpious is Scum.

Having a strong scumread is scummy? Since when?

I don't understand this weird chainsaw you have going.

[KittyTacky]

If Scorp flips scum then Andres stonks go down.

[KittyTacky]

scorpius what message did u get from the moderator after you sent the message to angela

Just confirmation of night action, nothing specific..

the reason i was asking is cuz the mod confirms whether the action was successful or not but nm we cant rly ask about mod action so sorry

This isn't Town Of Salem, if you don't normally get a result then you don't know if you were roleblocked.

Literally i don't even know half of list.

I have you in my sig!

[KittyTacky]

@jackson

A player you believe is town based on 10 pages of random votes?
Stop wasting time interacting with us and read the game, then come back and play properly

Sorry for prolonged absence - surprisingly busy couple of days. I'm still reading through the past 10 pages or so, but this post is an incredibly, incredibly weird one for Geraint given they told Jackson most of day 1 is useless, and given they have said they inherently believe themselves most of day 1 tends to be useless. This feels a bit like potential mafia frustration since Jackson's slot went from being confrontational with Scorpious to now TR'ing him. Note Gera - as with basically all of their play - doesn't actually engage with the content of Jackson's posts, instead they attack them for a reason entirely inconsistent with their own play.

Saying the first 10 pages don't make a reliable read and saying that D1 is useless isn't mutually exclusive.

[KittyTacky]

If Scorp is scum then the team is most likely Scorp/Andres/STD.

[KittyTacky]

The Gera push reeks of "hmmm who is pushing our scumbuddy but isn't confirmed town".

[KittyTacky]

@jackson

A player you believe is town based on 10 pages of random votes?
Stop wasting time interacting with us and read the game, then come back and play properly

Sorry for prolonged absence - surprisingly busy couple of days. I'm still reading through the past 10 pages or so, but this post is an incredibly, incredibly weird one for Geraint given they told Jackson most of day 1 is useless, and given they have said they inherently believe themselves most of day 1 tends to be useless. This feels a bit like potential mafia frustration since Jackson's slot went from being confrontational with Scorpious to now TR'ing him. Note Gera - as with basically all of their play - doesn't actually engage with the content of Jackson's posts, instead they attack them for a reason entirely inconsistent with their own play.

I see a few others cottoned onto this and geraint now a potential candidate for elimination - post 2192 stinks as well.

Especially given post 2027, where Jackson is explicitly told by geraint not to bother reading most of the game because it's pointless. Why the sudden shift in tone? Makes sense that it'd be mafia frustration coming through.

You raise decent points here

It's not inconsistent reasoning though so the points are flawed.

[KittyTacky]

@jackson

A player you believe is town based on 10 pages of random votes?
Stop wasting time interacting with us and read the game, then come back and play properly

Sorry for prolonged absence - surprisingly busy couple of days. I'm still reading through the past 10 pages or so, but this post is an incredibly, incredibly weird one for Geraint given they told Jackson most of day 1 is useless, and given they have said they inherently believe themselves most of day 1 tends to be useless. This feels a bit like potential mafia frustration since Jackson's slot went from being confrontational with Scorpious to now TR'ing him. Note Gera - as with basically all of their play - doesn't actually engage with the content of Jackson's posts, instead they attack them for a reason entirely inconsistent with their own play.

I see a few others cottoned onto this and geraint now a potential candidate for elimination - post 2192 stinks as well.

Especially given post 2027, where Jackson is explicitly told by geraint not to bother reading most of the game because it's pointless. Why the sudden shift in tone? Makes sense that it'd be mafia frustration coming through.

You raise decent points here

It's not inconsistent reasoning though so the points are flawed.

Elaborate further

Gera says believing Scorp is town based on 10 pages is stupid. Gera also thinks Day 1 is irrelevant. The latter is bad reasoning IMO but it makes sense from Gera's perspective, and I agree with the former.

If Scorp is scum then the team is most likely Scorp/Andres/STD.

You don’t put weight on me almost full pushing them as town as a scum partner thing?

You didn't even read the part that made Scorp scummy; jumping the gun in this way is a bad play but NAI. Also i really dislike the "BUT HE CLAIMS A PR!!!" fallacy because not only it's a very weak PR, it's mechanically more likely to be scum. You're the scum mark.

jacksonvirgo not giving me much faith either

Fancy how you say this right after I start twisting against you. Scum have more reason to want to kill a PR than Town does and you and gerain are both hopelessly biased and unbudging.

Constantly saying I should also catch up fully rather than counter my argument’s.

?????

you started twisting against me right after i said i was worried about you and your vote

like ?????

why should i be budging though

that is what i still do not understand

like you keep saying should be budging but that is based entirely on stuff i disagree with and you haven't said anything that has made me feel differently about it or anything that i hadn't already been thinking about before you arrived

i asked you to read the game because you were just not understanding the context for the conversation you were having with me

Where did I say you should be budging. The only reference to that word is my last few posts.

I think the mechanical reasoning to their SR is inherently flawed.

Elaborate.

Where did I say you should be budging. The only reference to that word is my last few posts.

I think the mechanical reasoning to their SR is inherently flawed.

you noted me as being 'unbudging'

which is maybe accurate though not like, 'would not budge' but rather currently do not think it would be correct to do so

but if you do not think i should be budging, then why even say it

I think you wont bcuz ur scum

How many pages did you read?

[KittyTacky]

My read is at least one of you and gerain are scum.
And Scorp is town, and even if they aren’t they are not caught by the actions today.

Shit read, both are most likely town.

How is Scorp town? He's not guaranteed scum but nobody is at this point and we need to hang the one most likely to be, and both mechanical (setup stuff, angela not receiving the ""message"") and play evidence (I don't think the hammer was accidental) points to Scorp.

I refuse to vote either of them today except under extreme circumstances.

[KittyTacky]

I think you are scum for deeper reaons than you just voting scorp, thats a strawmans argument.

I think scorp is being set up, and of course that would meld with scum pushing that. I could go into more detail but I would need a keyboard I never wanted to peg my phone down the hall more than I have now.

...

that's the extent of the reasons i am aware of you having at the very least, you haven't shared the others

like there isn't any reason i would go about doing so in this way if i were scum here;

like i am aware of the possibility that scorpious is being set up as i have said many times, i still don't see why that would be more likely than scorpious being mafia here

I have explained why it is extremely likely that they are mailman irregardless of alignment, if they were scum it would require a town roleblocker, in which would not have happened, or a scum one. This be default assigns them as more likely town mechanically and the fact that they were not NKed at night pins the scum agenda as wanting to eliminate them, or they would be dead.

This fact again assigns the role of scum pushing them today, and the push was seemingly stupidly easy until I popped in meaning there was absolute no reason for scum to NOT push it. As the sole, at the time, anti-scorpwagon player it was no reaskn for scum to back out so they stayed. Meaning scum is pushing them, you and gerain have both overlooked all of my logic and when you couldn’t counter it further you both miscredit it by pushjbh me to read the game which is both not needed for this type of situation and also a double down to discredit my reads.

Well I disagree with your reasoning, he's prone to dumb claims, mailman isn't out of the question.

[KittyTacky]

Scratch what I said after I read a page more.

If Scorp is scum, you're definitely scum.

[KittyTacky]

Take my last explanation and pull it apart. Failure to do so by avoiding will be a scum claim to me

the conclusion does not follow

that's the flaw as i said

That is not pulling apart nor explaining

i do not understand

what you're asking me to do

Ah I see.
The post I explained again the reasoning when you said that I didn’t explain it or whatnot. Take that and quote what you disagree with and why. For example You say you believe the likihood that the claim is fake is higher than a roleblock, why.

The claim is likely fake because he claimed weird stuff like Bulletproof Cop before.

[KittyTacky]

If Friendly Neibor real, then Mafia!Mailman could exist to imitate this message.

But it's really crazy theory.

Not again!!!!

Mailman can't fake FN messages.

[KittyTacky]

also it's weird that you say it would be 'trash' play when it would be largely working if scorpious is in fact mafia

It’s trash because it’s a bad play. It’s foolish and assumrs too much would happen to be viable, for examplr if Andante never repped out this conceration likely would have never happened and they would be flipped easy

It's a bad play but it's, IMO, more likely than a mafia roleblocker blocking him given everything else. I don't believe there is both a mailman and a FN as town.

[KittyTacky]

how come you aren't voting enchant?

Not only is my vote parked, there are scummier people even outside Scorp.

Anyways, I hope I'm right, I took a calculated risk with my push. I might be dying this night assuming no protective roles.

GG i was Scum.

And I was Reflexive 2-Shot Jester!

[KittyTacky]

I hope there's a doc/JK who can sit on me.

[KittyTacky]

Angela and geraintm I bin as town. If it's a red flip then we go for {STD}/{Andres/Jackson} tomorrow I guess.

[KittyTacky]

Actually I said you are

definitely

scum out of emotion, and I didn't mean it, but still, you look pretty bad if it's a red flip.

[KittyTacky]

GG. One of my better games. As I said in the dead thread, I feel the game would have gone better if Mafia was informed of FN because those roles "contradict" each other.

You did good, Scorp, almost made me hesitate. Very realistic frustration. Why didn't the message go through anyways? That's the main mystery.

[KittyTacky]

I thought it was Rathe TBH.

[KittyTacky]

Why didn't the message go through anyways? That's the main mystery.

Because Scorpious didn't send it.

Again, why your FN was the MOAB for me..

I didn’t want to move since I was sus..

I never understood why you refused to send your message. It would have confirmed you as a Mailman, and you could have tried to convince town that you're a Town Mailman, which is the usual alignment for the Mailman role. Although, in this setup, the Friendly Neighbor was the counterbalance, nowhere does it say that town cannot have both a FN and a Mailman. In fact, I'd bet that someone will include both of these roles as town like KittyTacky said in the Dead Thread.

It's dependent on meta of course but I was just highly skeptical both roles were town. It didn't feel right to me at all.

[KittyTacky]

Hanging NM was dumb, now I am even more set on never voting NM day 1 besides extreme circumstances.