Mini Normal 2276: Around the World - Game Over!

[Roden]

VOTE: Shoshin

Hi. My role in this game is Ascetic Miller.

No, I don't know why anyone would add Miller to a role which can't be investigated.

I feel like I got a middle finger instead of a Role PM this game

It's possible an Ascetic-Enabler exists. Otherwise it just sounds like you got a troll role.

[Roden]

Marci's vibes seem a bit off

Datisi feels kinda town though

[Roden]

VOTE: Roden

Marci's town.

Roden needs more votes.

I'm seeing some BTS solving here. There's a pretty good chance you're town.

Why do you think Marci is town?

[Roden]

Can you answer my question

[Roden]

Why

[Roden]

I think it would be relevant to explain your town read on Marci when several people aren't vibing with that and want to vote her

[Roden]

Working theory: Roden/Datisi/Crescent scumteam.

The reason I think you're town is because I saw this trajectory without you even saying anything lol

Oh he's shitposting for reactions. Less interesting.

That's a little unfair, I don't think they're shitposting-

Roden's scum for voting me,

[Roden]

To elaborate, very unlikely that scum Marci calls town Ausuka's role fake. Equally unlikely that scumteam Ausuka/Marci planned this bit of drama to start the game off (besides the obvious pro-town effect of their play getting us out of RVS, it just seems too much to pull off this quickly with no real scum logic behind the play).

Ausuka's 26 feels like fake frustration. I'm surprised anyone suspects Marci over Ausuka here. Strongly doubt it's genuine from everyone involved.

Why do you think it's more likely for scum to fake claim an absurd-sounding role than for scum to doubt an absurd-sounding role?

[Roden]

NOOO RODEN SINCE WHEN DID U BECOME FUNNY

Lmao, I just had an epiphany recently I guess

Why do you think it's more likely for scum to fake claim an absurd-sounding role than for scum to doubt an absurd-sounding role?

Scum are more likely to fake-claim than town.

I mean, yeah, true. But that's teetering a bit on circular logic. And doesn't really answer my question.

[Roden]

But that's teetering a bit on circular logic.

I don't want to have this "circular" discussion here, as it's not going to lead anywhere helpful. I'm sure you'll realize I'm town soon enough without getting straight answers to all your questions.

I already think you're town.

Roden, what do you think of Crescent?

I think she's TvT with you atm. I think you two are having a playstyle clash, her reactions to you remind me of how I can get when the same happens with me and other players.

[Roden]

Hi. My role in this game is Ascetic Miller.

No, I don't know why anyone would add Miller to a role which can't be investigated.

I feel like I got a middle finger instead of a Role PM this game

Is this a gag? Or is this real?

Could an ascetic miller be considered normal?

I believe it is.

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Normal_Game

Normal modifier and normal town role, the mod's just getting a little wacky with the set up. There could be other explanations besides Pooky making meme roles, but it might be anti-town to discuss that right now. I just believe that Ausuka is being honest and is town.

[Roden]

suspicious of roden because the early townread of shoshin for "solving behind the scenes" seems (1) kinda awkwardly explained, (2) seems like tmi? like, i'm a bit skeptical that he saw two basically naked votes and decided there's some townie solving happening there

Sometimes people say a lot when they say nothing. Shoshin was voting in response to things happening in the game, just because they didn't explain their thought process yet doesn't mean you can't see the gears turning. I town read them exactly because you can tell Shoshin was trying to solve without having to make a show of it.

I think if scum wants to fake a trajectory, they want to make it clear what they're trying to lead to with their reads. Blank votes seem counter-intuitive to that, so unless it's within a player's meta, I think scum tends to avoid doing that.

[Roden]

Working theory: Roden/Datisi/Crescent scumteam.

The reason I think you're town is because I saw this trajectory without you even saying anything lol

so how did you see this coming? it's not obvious to me from shoshin's iso up until that point at all

Shoshin first voted Scamper for shading Marci, so voting me for doing the same makes sense as a thought process. I can see him grouping all the people attacking his town read (Marci) and thinking scum were coordinating an attack there. Plus as STD claimed, we share a hood, so me voting him before either of us interacted with each other is additional reason to want to vote me at the time. But I guess you couldn't know this since the hood hadn't been claimed yet, it was factoring into my read on him though.

As an added note to the people who asked, no I didn't town read him for making blank votes. I town read him for the context behind the votes, since I could see the trajectory for them and didn't think it was a faked trajectory.

[Roden]

Why did you claim neighborhood, exactly?

We have two 0 posters so far and Lemons is one of them. I suppose they haven't posted there either?

Chaos is a naturally bad thing for town. Sustained chaos is how you end up with trains on 6 different people with 24 hours left in the day, town almost certainly getting voted off, and weak information to go off of that voteoff because there were so many trains.

hood reveal is interesting, i dont have a problem with std outing it since theres probably scum in a 4 person hood but i kind of wish he'd waited a bit longer so that we could have reads from people on the players in the hood + lemons could have posted

cuz right now my immediate thought is the lemons slot is probably scum but we learn basically nothing from it now if thats true

With that I do agree. Revealing hood with a 0 poster inside was odd.

It feels like a semi-careless town play more than a scum play though.

I had asked STD if we should and he just said yeah if activity didn't pick up soon. Pretty much nothing was happening in the hood so I didn't disagree. I don't think we could've utilized it much if we kept it a secret tbh, the only thing about it that matters to me is the mech info. Plus if there's a Traffic Analyst around they won't have to worry about false guilties now.

[Roden]

Alex is very scummy.

If Crescent's town, I'd guess Scamper/Alex/STD.

What happened to your Datisi read? I kinda have an idea but I'm curious if I'm right.

Hey Roden, I'd like your insight onto the game. I'm feeling lost.

I think you're doing fine, you don't seem particularly lost.

I don't have much insight on the game, I guess what's bothering me at this point is that I don't have any major scum reads. Marci and Alex have earned a raised eyebrow at points, but they'll occasionally post something that makes me think "oh that's a townie response actually". More so Marci, I don't know Alex so idk what to expect from them as town. In contrast, I've played with Marci a few times now and managed to lock in her alignment pretty quickly in past games, so I feel confident that if she is town then I'll be able to figure it out soon enough.

[Roden]

VOTE: Bellaphant

Actually I feel like getting onboard with this

VOTE: Bellaphant

This vote from Alex in particular feels scummy. It's a bit delayed to vote Bella now when their previous interactions were 24 hours earlier and nothing solvey had come out of it. I'm just not seeing much of a progression here.

VOTE: Alex

[Roden]

@shoshin, we don't use the l-word on this site anymore, and i haven't gotten to this game yet. i don't lurk to "avoid posting content" or whatever else because i am more than good enough at scum to know what to post.

This is one if the reasons I town read Datisi. Not because of the self-meta here but because I've seen scum!Datisi a couple times now and this isn't it. If you don't have much of an opinion on him then he's very likely town; he's generally high activity as scum and working hard to make people want to keep him around and empathize with him.

[Roden]

I can get that. I think giving it a little more time before revealing would probably be helpful, but at the same time if no one's really posting in it even a few days from now, then I don't see it giving us much info.

[Roden]

anyway i caught up and heres where im at rn:

Datisi - scum
Bellaphant - scumlean?
Ausuka - town
Crescent - town?
Alexcellent - townlean
JohnnyFarrar - scumlean
Corwinoid - scumlean
Save The Dragons - nulltown
scamper - radiant lodestar of towniness
Roden - townlean
Freedom - town
marcistar - null
Gamma Emerald - town

Hard disagree on Alex and Bella, tho I don't really have any questions.

Where does the Roden and Gamma reads come from?

I don't like this Datisi wagon and I think it's distracting from the much more correct Alex wagon so let's

VOTE: Alex

I agree with both of these takes

[Roden]

Marci, don't take this the wrong way but do you actually believe in the argument you're making here?

[Roden]

Marci, don't take this the wrong way but do you actually believe in the argument you're making here?

omg why r u calling me an idiot

I'm not, but the only possibilities I see here are that you either actually believe the argument you're making, or you're just trying to justify a statement you made that you didn't think would receive this much scrutiny and didn't think it through initially.

[Roden]

TBH I DONT WVEN KNOW WHAT ARGUMENT IM MAKING HERE IM ARGUING JUST TO ARGUE

all i know is i think datisisisisis scum

Ok yeah that's kinda what I was getting at

[Roden]

Marci, don't take this the wrong way but do you actually believe in the argument you're making here?

what was the point of this question supposed to be, exactly

My next posts explain that actually.

Marci, don't take this the wrong way but do you actually believe in the argument you're making here?

omg why r u calling me an idiot

I'm not, but the only possibilities I see here are that you either actually believe the argument you're making, or you're just trying to justify a statement you made that you didn't think would receive this much scrutiny and didn't think it through initially.

TBH I DONT WVEN KNOW WHAT ARGUMENT IM MAKING HERE IM ARGUING JUST TO ARGUE

all i know is i think datisisisisis scum

Ok yeah that's kinda what I was getting at

[Roden]

I gave my opinion on Marci in the hood. I scum read her, but I think if she actually is scum here then it's been a weird play on her end. Like, someone mentioned that her play doesn't make sense regardless of alignment, and I heavily agree with that. I could theorize that maybe she's scum and trying to distance/create fake associatives/anti-spew, but she was at zero votes when suspicion started piling on her. So why do that? Especially when earlier in the Day she got run up to E-2 and then had her wagon disintegrate with barely any effort? I don't understand why scum would intentionally play weird and get themself run up twice within like three days.

Though I do think it was weird that she was at E-2 then dropped to zero votes so quickly the first time. I don't think she did anything super townie that would have killed her wagon like that.

[Roden]

vote count 1.02

with 13 votes in play, it takes 7 to make a decision. day 1 ends in (expired on 2022-07-12 12:00:00).

yeet

marcistar[4]:

Ausuka, scamper, Datisi, Bellaphant

Shoshin[2]:

Roden, Save The Dragons

Crescent[1]:

Shoshin

Scamper[1]:

Gamma Emerald

Not Voting[5]:

InsidiousLemons, Alexcellent, Crescent, JohnnyFarrar, marcistar

mod note

Let me know if there are errors in the vote count

Flavor

vote count 1.08

with 13 votes in play, it takes 7 to make a decision. day 1 ends in (expired on 2022-07-12 12:00:00).

yeet

Alexcellent[3]:

Ausuka, Roden, JohnnyFarrar

Marcistar[2]:

Datisi, Scamper

Datisi[1]:

Marcistar

Corwinoid[1]:

Save the Dragons

Scamper[1]:

Corwinoid

Not Voting[5]:

Crescent, Bellaphant, Alexcellent, Gamma Emerald, Freedom,

mod note

Bellaphant is VLA until Monday

Flavor

it's almost as if marci's posts are not made in good faith and she's posting nonsense just for the sake of it.

u really should learn to stop tunneling < 3

VOTE: marcistar

viewtopic.php?p=13378298&user_select%5B ... #p13378298

I think this is an interesting read

My first thought here is just like, she seems to struggle with scumplay a bit? So I'm more inclined to think she's scum here rather than too-scummy-to-be-scum.

Also she said she tends to be more bitchy as scum? I'm not 100% sure whether or not that applies here and I think it's hard to evaluate without being Potentially Rude

Yeah okay I’m on board now

UNVOTE: Johnny
VOTE: Marci

My bad, she was at E-3 the first time. And with the additional votes, she's currently at E-3 again.

It's interesting though, it's mostly the same people voting her again. Just swap out Bella with Alex for the second time.

[Roden]

maybe she just felt pressured and fucked up?

What I'm trying to say is I don't think the scummy stuff necessarily needs to be looked at through the lens of a scum strategy.

That's the thing though, I don't think she did anything different that earned her second wagon. If she's fucking up then she's fucking up for three days straight. What happened to her wagon the first time around?

vote count 1.02

with 13 votes in play, it takes 7 to make a decision. day 1 ends in (expired on 2022-07-12 12:00:00).

yeet

marcistar[4]:

Ausuka, scamper, Datisi, Bellaphant

Shoshin[2]:

Roden, Save The Dragons

Crescent[1]:

Shoshin

Scamper[1]:

Gamma Emerald

Not Voting[5]:

InsidiousLemons, Alexcellent, Crescent, JohnnyFarrar, marcistar

mod note

Let me know if there are errors in the vote count

Flavor

vote count 1.05

with 13 votes in play, it takes 7 to make a decision. day 1 ends in (expired on 2022-07-12 12:00:00).

yeet

Alexcellent[3]:

Ausuka, Datisi, Roden

Datisi[2]:

Shoshin, Marcistar

Bellaphant[2]:

scamper, Alexcellent

Shoshin[1]:

Save the Dragons

Not Voting[5]:

Corwinoid, Crescent, JohnnyFarrar, Bellaphant, Gamma Emerald

mod note

Please avoid use of the L-word. Thanks!

Flavor

It's weird to think that these would be counter wagons to scum!Marci. It does seem like the momentum keeps switching between Marci and Alex though.

[Roden]

It does seem like the momentum keeps switching between Marci and Alex though.

is this facts roden

It seems so. You were the leading wagon initially, then Alex, and now you again.

That's the thing though, I don't think she did anything different that earned her second wagon. If she's fucking up then she's fucking up for three days straight. What happened to her wagon the first time around?

her first wagon was an early rvs wagon and people just got bored and decided to try pushing something else? then once she got back and started spewing bad takes again, people voted again? it's not that deep.

I get why she's getting voted again. I just don't think it's that simple.

Firstly, I'd disagree that she didn't do anything to justify her second wagon - the way she handled that interaction with datisi was god awful

Secondly, the 'momentum' between Marci and Alex seems to be just me and Datisi. I think I've explained the reasoning in my votes at the very least. I don't think the wagons were large enough for this analysis to be particularly meaningful.

I'm not saying her second wagon isn't justified, I'm saying nothing about her play this game has changed. I think it's weird that scum would do something that got them scum read, escape the wagon, then continue to act the exact same way and get themself run up again.

Bella, Scamper, and Alex have also voted Marci. Though Alex only voted Marci because he decided to sheep you around the time her wagon regained momentum, before that he was town reading her.

okay but why did you stop, what are you doing right now, how are you approaching this game

do u have thoughts beyond datisi being scum or not?

i stopped because i had work...

right now im trying to go afk cuz thats the vibes, but then yall keep making convo about me so obv im gonna join in??

my approach this game is to just say what im thinking when im thinking. i think ive done enough of that early on.
now that the game is kicked off, my intention is to go afk (which work partly helps with). the reason i want to go afk is because i dont trust my opinions when im a loud voice in the town. so i sort of want to fade out, let someone else take spotlights and then read it all after and see if i have any better conclusions then. possibly gonna mess around and hard defend someone depending on how my read on said person is.

i could prob have other thoughts but datisi loves the attention, i know deep down he does...

This kinda feels genuine to me, I think Marci is probs town

[Roden]

I don't think she's gotten any scummier honestly. She got wagon'd the first time around because of her interactions with Crescent, where she was weirdly hyper critical of her and shading her intentions. She got wagon'd again for criticizing and shading Datisi, just this time she admitted she didn't know what she was even arguing about. She's been doing the same thing all game and it's been a major reason why I keep going back and forth between thinking she's scummy and then going "ok that was kinda townie".

[Roden]

I guess this is more "my thoughts on Marci are complicated and I'm confused about wtf is going on with her" and less a defense of Marci, in case it's coming across as the latter

[Roden]

I do see your point, and since I town read you and Datisi I feel like your takes have some weight and that's something I'm taking into account

Occam's Razor says Marci's probably just scum here and that she's being confusing on purpose to try to go for "too scummy to be scummy"

Gut says that I'm missing info that would explain her actions

[Roden]

Since I scum read Alex, I'm also taking into account a scenario where scum!Alex is voting town!Marci, and I'm trying to understand how that works out with how scummy Marci's been. Mainly because I really hate Alex's vote. It's possible they're both scum too.

[Roden]

yall just hate on me cuz its what easiest and doesnt make u need to reevaluate ur reads

Who do you think needs to be reevaluated?

[Roden]

I'm down to vote Corwin, but I want to give them time to respond before putting them at E-1.

[Roden]

Why avoid talking about each other if they're both scum? Both have had suspicion thrown at them today, so distancing is possible if they think one of them could be going down.

[Roden]

Corwin mentioned in the hood that they're separating themself from the game for a bit, partially because of Crescent but also because IRL stuff happened apparently.

They're also accusing Crescent of playing the complete opposite as she did when she was town in the Mini that got brought up. So uh, basically a "no u" argument.

[Roden]

I've been feeling that Gamma is town for a hot minute now too

[Roden]

intent to hammer

This is clearly happening so we might as well speed things up in case we want to decide on another wagon with comfortable time

I also intend to hammer.

At this point I'm mainly just waiting for Corwin to show up and respond to posts.

[Roden]

I'd town lock Datisi if he quick hammered now

[Roden]

At work right now so I can't get in depth. But uh plain JK claim sounds fake as hell. Ausuka's claim + Bella's hinted claim don't mesh with it.l

[Roden]

VOTE: Corwin

[Roden]

Who are the potential four town PRs?

Ausuka/Bella/Corwin/???

Unless you're counting the hood?

[Roden]

I never expect all three scum to be found Day 1. The reality is that there's usually a deep wolf when a Day 1 scum elim happens. And if Corwin actually flips town then it's just as likely we have a deep wolf or even two.

My final solve has one of Alex or Marci, but it's very unlikely they're both scum here.

[Roden]

I think I wouldn't mind hearing from another hood member first if they can verify that what Corwin said in 1491 checks out.
Also it might be worth checking if he said all that stuff about her read in the hood chat before or after mini 2273 ended because I think the timing of that can be relevant.

It has to be after. Otherwise he'd be talking about an ongoing game.

[Roden]

Oof, GG and thanks for modding Pooky

Idk why I died N1 but it was clutch, I'd targeted Marci and would've been able to conftown her.

[Roden]

I thought they might've been Koba too lol

Also yeah from a meta/PR hunting perspective killing me does make sense. The set up was funny tbh, a lot of fun PRs were in the game.

[Roden]

I don't think the game was unbalanced, just a bit swingy. Even just one good Vig shot probably turns it around for town. Same if I'd survived and got a guilty result or even just got an inno on Marci.

[Roden]

I'd actually be in favor of simple vs complexity tags. Is there a way to suggest something like that for the queue?

I'm trying to think of a possible negative, and I guess it would cut down on possible role claim gambits and fake claims. Like, if a game was simple, no one's believing an Ascetic Miller Even Night Mailman claim. On the other hand, a default Tracker would be unbelievable in complex games.

Maybe we could also give "unknown" as a complexity tag option so that players can enter a game with no expectations as well.