Mini Normal 2288: Reposting Same Picture As Flavor Are Lame

[Herta]

IMA BE LOUD!

[Herta]

VOTE: andante

Heya

[Herta]

VOTE: kowahbunga

Klick may be on to something.

[Herta]

Kow has too many votes for this early. Got my eye on Penguin,red, Klick, and andante. Likely at least one scum on there.

I'm at work, so this is all I'll be able to say for the next fivish hours.

wait...why not brickwall?

What about them?

So you managed to see post 100 but not 102?

I'm skimming because I don't want to take too much time in the bathroom at work lmao, I'll get to a full post later

this is fair, but yeah I'd like to know why I was excluded from those voting kowahbunga.

[Herta]

Andante lean town, aggressiveness pings town
Gamma slightly town, not sure why just does
Kowahbunga, lean scum, wasn't until they got all explainy
Klick seems town too

[Herta]

And hi Taly !!! Hope studies are going well.

[Herta]

It is day 1, there is pretty much nothing anyone can do which should set off a real scum ping.

do you really think this ?

Yeah he does. It's a recurring theme. It makes him difficult to read Day 1 especially because it's the same M.O. every game, but he does know how to lean into it when he's scum. It's best just to disregard for now and deal with him later.

[Herta]

Otherwise the entire Day 1 is going to be about how he doesn't think scum hunting Day 1 is worthwhile and he'd rather we just no lim.

[Herta]

Herta and Bunno put a hurtin' on Taly once.

[Herta]

Sounds ominous.

[Herta]

It is day 1, there is pretty much nothing anyone can do which should set off a real scum ping.

do you really think this ?

Yeah he does. It's a recurring theme. It makes him difficult to read Day 1 especially because it's the same M.O. every game, but he does know how to lean into it when he's scum. It's best just to disregard for now and deal with him later.

Herta

why does Gerain thinking we can't have strong reads D1 on D1 make Gerain difficult to read? They are still contributing and thus we can still make a read based on their actions? His belief that people can't have strong reads shouldn't impact your read on them?

He knows to embrace that as scum, and he does so. In other words, it's the same game regardless of alignment. If theré's something not dependent on that, yeah why not. It's just that we recently completed a game where he was obstinately gera Day 1; it led into his elimination that Day; and it really was a waste of time and made the game harder than it probably should have been.

[Herta]

Herta

, enlist me. Ask me questions or tell me to do something.

You're the most familiar to me on this list.

I'm going back and forth on Gamma. She seems subdued to me. In my experience she's much more aggressive.

I thought the post about making reads lists was okay, I guess, but in retrospect I wonder if it wasn't front loading content given we haven't seen much since.

Am I missing something?

[Herta]

Kow has too many votes for this early. Got my eye on Penguin,red, Klick, and andante. Likely at least one scum on there.

I'm at work, so this is all I'll be able to say for the next fivish hours.

Red and Andante seem okay rn
Other 2 idk

I don't like Gryff's post but Gamma's is not much better. This legitimises poor scum hunting

What do you think of

Gamma

taking

Red

and

Andante

out of that pool?

This post. What is your answer to your question?

[Herta]

I guess there's more content from gamma than I remembered so maybe I was just overlooking it.

[Herta]

Yeah I think we have some players on this list with a wide range. It's going to make this tough. Right now I think I want to eliminate in

1. Brickwalll
3. Haschel Cedricson
6. Lazy Shirou
7. Kowahbunga
8. redFF
10. GamerGryff

Do you have anyone you'd add or remove from that list?

[Herta]

On yeah. Shirou shouldn't be in there. I keep thinking bunno.

[Herta]

So that leaves

3. Haschel Cedricson
7. Kowahbunga
8. redFF
10. GamerGryff

I'm okay with eliminating in this group at this point unless they start town telling.

[Herta]

What argument do you have for

Haschel

or

redFF

to be in that pool?

Haschel is no content thus no town telling. Red I'll take a look at. I recall him asking a few questions but nothing striking.

[Herta]

Meh I can take red out. There are a few good posts there.

pedit: lol

[Herta]

What argument do you have for

Haschel

or

redFF

to be in that pool?

Haschel is no content thus no town telling. Red I'll take a look at. I recall him asking a few questions but nothing striking.

so every player not on the list has "town told" ?

No just their range is such that they could go either way for me and I think we can figure it out as we go.

[Herta]

Hi taly, how can i jog your memory for that question you wanted to ask me?

what are your reads or thoughts outside of

Andante

? your ISO is centered around that read so far

I've done myself no favours worrying about it so much but have felt the need to defend myself.

So I don't have any other serious reads. But that's also going to be normal for me because I've never been the type of player that likes to make a list of names and write “scum lean/town lean” or anything similar.

I read each post and examine it in the moment as “would I say that as town?” Or “would I say that as scum?” - and then proceed accordingly from which I think makes the most sense.

I seriously doubt I turn my attention away from Andante today. I'm satisfied with my feelings on them, and will let the rest of the players decide what's best.

Other than Andante what are your reads?

[Herta]

I don't see the supposed narrative either.

[Herta]

I"m okay with killing shirou also.

[Herta]

kowabunga/herta/????

I think you should replace me with Shirou.

[Herta]

kowabunga/herta/????

I think you should replace me with Shirou.

why do u think i'm scum?

A marked lack of substance.

[Herta]

ok i cannot resist on hindsight

gamma i know u are scum goodnight now fr

VOTE: gamma

Was this RVS or serious? If serious where's the follow up?

Why is redFF in the list?

Happy with the others, including Shiro.

waat this is so sinful i can't be killed pls do u guys not understand i'm gonna like

kaboom splash plish plash

hero solve this game fr fr later mhm

andate is prob town btw

prob can lock the read before eod

If you let me just shitpost through day 1, maybe day 2 I pinky promise to get at least one scum, for real. If not well...I don't want to care too much about this game from the start (or most games in this alt from now on).

I probably need to be properly miseliminated once for it become my "meta" in this alt though so eh, maybe it'll happen here.

Now back to shitposting.

okay hm so

i can't guarantee getting even one scum at all on hindsight so i'll play just a bit this game mhm

just a bit

if anyone wants to know why i changed my mind go read post-game of white flag that's it

viewtopic.php?t=90287&p=13625337#p13625337

i thought if left alive by d3 or so i could get scum but idk anymore apparently i get worse reads in late-game and my accuracy isn't that good

i thought about trying the katsuki style but i realize midway that i'm not even a good impersonation of katsuki

i'm def not trying to effort too much here mhm

wanna vibe

do u guys wanna vibe

i don't have the confidence on calling scum correctly so

i just wanna say my thoughts + or - and leave it at that

i don't wanna hardpush anyone or pick fights

i don't even want to say my thoughts very much because i completely lack confidence at it but i figured it may be unfair to not post anything if i don't plan to try too hard later on. my iso so far is empty i guess

Where is there any substance related to this game in these posts? What do these posts mean? It's like he's musing to himself, talking under his breath like my grandad used to do. "Hmm it's gonna be cold today better grab a jacket oo I'm hungry oo I've gotta remember to get gas oo Oh I remember I need to tell her about that one thing..." All of these posts, near as I can tell, are about how he''s going to play or not play this game. We've got one read, the andante read, that he flagged two days ago:

andate is prob town btw

prob can lock the read before eod

And he picks it back up here:

literally everything²

i said everything in your iso was scum indicative in that other game

i think rn almost everything in your iso is town indicative

completely and utterly different vibes

my unique hesitance towards you is that maybe you didn't feel like playing scum back then but do now for mood reasons, or etc

andante feels so green that it's like she's an entire forest by herself

it's kinda a meta tell tho so not impossible she's just blowing her previous "scum range"

i haven't properly read half of this game i wanna actually read it first before saying anything

u feel like town even from my skim though

mmmk, see, I feel like I haven't even dropped anything amazing yet,

the sample is only 4 games but i started to feel a very noticeable difference in your town/scum game and went to check

it would be p funny to out it but it's a lot easier to fake it i out

if i'm right by any chance on it being a reliable tell (i think needs more testing) i wanna keep close to my chest bc i feel like you're a free read if i'm right

i don't usually do meta nowadays but yours was very very noticeable

i'm surprised if no one has talked about it yet perhaps

maybe it was a coincidence in the games i saw i guess

again though, it's been awhile since you rolled scum

could be outdated meta definitely

you still feel a bit towny without the meta tell as well

i've a cop check on andante

she's clear

Looking like the andante read two days ago (and it wasn't exactly mind blowing then that she was a town read), like "I'm going to town read this player the whole game, but I need to plant the seed." And then continues on to pack that town read in to the exclusion of the rest of the plist. That Andante is town read is not earth shattering. There are so many more interesting things to be doing than town reading X 10 the most town read player in the game.

[Herta]

His name is literally 'Lazy Shirou'

He's not being lazy, though. He's actively blathering.

[Herta]

I'm juggling a lot with

Geraintm

because I do want to push for non-self-specific content but I don't think a vote will accomplish that.

What bothered you with

Gryff's

posting?

pedit

i think that's it from me, see you all?<br style="color: rgb(204, 204, 204);"><br style="color: rgb(204, 204, 204);">i saw your question about gamma taly but i'm leaving you to think about why i'm not replying yet

ooh, spicy, k noted

He just posted something without posting something.

I will translate: "I made a few substantive posts after being called out on it, and now I'm going to go back to lurking and can't be bothered to invent an answer to your question."

[Herta]

I wish y'all would play the game you signed up for rather than the game you wish you were playing.

[Herta]

So kowabungah fell apart eh.

I'm just going to sheep PP until I get my bearings maybe.

Hey FB !!! j::::j

[Herta]

UNVOTE:

[Herta]

Actually happy to vote shirou ofc.

I'd still go back to kowa.

VOTE: lazyshirou

[Herta]

Okay I'm going to read what I missed tomorrow. I just want to go to bed right now.

[Herta]

Mod not captioning the mini meme is bullshit.

[Herta]

performative

That's a good word for it.

[Herta]

WHERE IS THE GREEN?

DAMNIT

...He says as he looks at his PM.

[Herta]

Oh shit I was already beat to the pm joke. But mine's better.

[Herta]

herta

i see a lot of

shirou

associating you with

gamma

and

gryff

but you haven't engaged with that directly

It's like watching someone stuck in a ditch spinning their tires.

[Herta]

what is your read on gamma/gryff
rn?

I haven't given either much thought, let alone whether they could be a team.

Gamma was a bit suss to me early but feel better about her now. I think as scum she's more manipulative.

Gryff I have no idea.

What are you getting out of Shirou, Taly? Do you think he's town?

[Herta]

VOTE: Gryff

So why is no one questioning why Kow hopped on my wagon without saying anything

Scummy question.

[Herta]

This is certainly not a friendly place to play, but there are other mafia sites that are. So don't give up on the game if you like it.

[Herta]

This is certainly not a friendly place to play, but there are other mafia sites that are. So don't give up on the game if you like it.

I don't have the energy to try and look for somewhere else. I barely function from a day-to-day basis as is, this place is the only place I knew where I genuinely had fun playing the game and where I wasn't judged for being myself. But eventually it became way too frustrating when you suck. I thought maybe I'd had gotten better at reading people as my life marched on but I suppose that only works when you have to look at them face-to-face.

Life is hard enough for me without this stress. Being the emotional support for someone who self-sabotages constantly can be just as tiring as working a 40-hour week. I needed the levity, but I guess I looked in the wrong spot.

Well there are sites where people do respect the person behind the player.

[Herta]

Firecop want a donut?

[Herta]

consider that me putting Gryff in my "i don't want them eliminated" pile

Aren't we all in that pile?

[Herta]

I think gamma would have more fight here as town.

VOTE: gamma


e-1

[Herta]

There's a list. Neat.

[Herta]

Can we lim Herta instead of Gamma? por favor

Wagon it up.

[Herta]

Ayyy I'm here!! lets not end day right now tbh
plz and ty

Why don't you want to kill scum?

[Herta]

Oh wow. Red's scum now?

[Herta]

Even Andante I don’t 100% know what to make of the defense because when most of the game is pushing me it makes it really fucking easy for scum to pocket me

I mean, I'm not fully defending you lol, you're just null for me, but I see everyone going at you, you've said you're sick, I've literally tried playing mafia when sick before, it sucks, I'd rather just let you be for now, so you can spend whatever energy you have towards playing the game, my reads on gryff/herta are strong enough to where I genuinely don't care what your alignment is right now

Why was gamma's ate genuing and gryff's not?

[Herta]

Even Andante I don’t 100% know what to make of the defense because when most of the game is pushing me it makes it really fucking easy for scum to pocket me

I mean, I'm not fully defending you lol, you're just null for me, but I see everyone going at you, you've said you're sick, I've literally tried playing mafia when sick before, it sucks, I'd rather just let you be for now, so you can spend whatever energy you have towards playing the game, my reads on gryff/herta are strong enough to where I genuinely don't care what your alignment is right now

Why was gamma's ate genuing and gryff's not?

I didn't even read ate from gamma? I see a gamma post, see the "I have the flu" signature, and I go "awww hope she's feeling better"
not sure on your question here? I don't care about ate, try not to use it at all, I sr Gryff for reasons I've said, but honestly posts like this? congrats, you've jumped ahead of Gryff on the scumminess ranking

Wait how is gamma posting that she is sick, and then her subsequent posting regarding "don't mess with me, you don't know my meta, you don't want to go there" not AtE?

[Herta]

I said the "you don't know my meta" post was terrible and I wanted to vote her for that alone? not sure your question

It's simple. How is what Gamma has been doing not AtE and, fundamentally, how is Gamma's AtE pure and Gryff's scummy?

[Herta]

I said the "you don't know my meta" post was terrible and I wanted to vote her for that alone? not sure your question

It's simple. How is what Gamma has been doing not AtE and, fundamentally, how is Gamma's AtE pure and Gryff's scummy?

I get the feeling, Andante, that you're confbiasing wrt Gryff and that you need to look at a world where they aren't scum.

[Herta]

fwiw I don't think Andante is scum.

[Herta]

I think Gamma may be scum, and I'm pretty sure shirou is scum.

[Herta]

I think that whole conversation with Herta was terrible, and had no point to it tbh

thus, I would love to

VOTE: Herta

today

I don't think it was a conversation. It was me asking you questions and you evading them.

[Herta]

*checks watch*

11:30 AM. Shirou is still scum.

[Herta]

*checks watch*

On snooze.

[Herta]

*checks watch*

11:30 AM. Shirou is still scum.

*checks watch*

11:40 AM. Herta is not voting who they think is still scum.

Idk man PP feels kinda town

I think it may be a red role PM issue, he's gotta check for support before wagoning someone

That's probably it.

[Herta]

I was also wondering if geraint is scum if neither gryff or kowah is

What are the associations there?

[Herta]

Tell me about geraintm.

[Herta]

Did geraintm make the kill last night?

[Herta]

you think im super scummy but wants to engage me rather than case/vote me it's so cute

I will grant ur wish i just need some time since im on mobile and posting is a pain

Waiting with bated breath.

[Herta]

In fact why do you even scum read me

I think fireboy put it best: Performative.

And why do you scum read me?

But wait.

Let's go back to where this started:

I was also wondering if geraint is scum if neither gryff or kowah is

What are the associations there?

you think im super scummy but wants to engage me rather than case/vote me it's so cute

I will grant ur wish i just need some time since im on mobile and posting is a pain

You want to engage me on one thing but you can't on another.

I'm sure you can tell me about your geraintm comment right.

[Herta]

When herta needs to use a vague word like "performative" rather than talk about individual posts you can just feel the scum equity rising

Talking about geraint is easy, just bothersome on mobile

Right.

[Herta]

I don't think penguin, no.

[Herta]

I view this game as either gryff being scum and herta likely being one buddy or Kowah being scum for the max troll. If all of those people are town, and Andante is town, and I assume redFF, PP and maybe Klick are more likely town than scum for some good posts there and here, geraint becomes scum by PoE, so if my main suspects are wrong and most of my town leans are right, there's decent chances of geraint being scum due to...math. he also hasn't done anything remotely townie as far as I know.

Let's parse this.

gryff is scum and herta may be a buddy
OR Kowah is scum for trolling purposes.
And IF ALL those players are town, and Andante is town, then redFF, PP and MAYBE Klick are town
And in that scenario, if gryff, herta, kowah, Andante, redff, PP, and klick are town,
Then geraintm is scum.

(That's seven of eleven remaining players if my math is correct)

Which conclusion, if those seven are town then geraintm is scum by POE, according to you, is a decent chance of being true because of math.

I think that in that case there would be a POE of geraintm, taly and klick.

So what you're saying is that if gryff, herta, kowah, andante, redff, PP, and klick are town, and presumably you are town, then the three that are left are the scum team.

Pretty brilliant.

And I like how you throw in "Oh and geraintm hasn't done anything townie." Yet geraintm is scum only if all that other stuff happens. Why can't he be scum without all of that?

With all those conditionals, and you wonder why people think your posts are massaged to not make a lick of sense?

VOTE: shirou

[Herta]

I still want to know what geraintm did last night.

[Herta]

hey penguin lets 1v1 fite to death in pullups.
I bet i can beat u

running for popcorn

[Herta]

Herta I'm interested in getting a more full picture of your view of the game
Where are your reads at?

Shirou and maybe geraintm are scum

Firebringer, gryff, pp are town, maybe tedff

[Herta]

What do you make of Kowah?

I was scum reading them at first, but for some reason I'm not now. I need to check, but I think it was toward latter part of the day, well of course it was, that I softened.

[Herta]

What do you make of Kowah?

I was scum reading them at first, but for some reason I'm not now. I need to check, but I think it was toward latter part of the day, well of course it was, that I softened.

Yeah it was them just coming across as an over-explainy newbie. At first I read it as scummy, but then it was like maybe they're just not used to this site's culture, because I've seen that type of thing elsewhere and it's generally fine. But then I thought I wouldn't have been as aggressive to hammer gamma as they were. So I'm really conflicted.

[Herta]

Mod thinks he's at Carnegie Hall.

[Herta]

Stop touching me.

[Herta]

Maybe Gryff is scum after all?

[Herta]

Fun. It's what's for dinner.

[Herta]

VOTE: klick

[Herta]

I want to look more closely at Herta soon because I don't really have a solid individual read there, I thought their posting was kinda towny early in the game
But optically {redFF, Herta, geraintm} feels like a very very good pool to lim in today

I don't care about your poe. What i didn't like was your condescending, over the top reaction to redff in 1205. Thar's highly scum indicative.

[Herta]

I want to look more closely at Herta soon because I don't really have a solid individual read there, I thought their posting was kinda towny early in the game
But optically {redFF, Herta, geraintm} feels like a very very good pool to lim in today

I don't care about your poe. What i didn't like was your condescending, over the top reaction to redff in 1205. Thar's highly scum indicative.

1205 wasn't intended to be condescending at all and I don't think redFF took it that way? He can correct me if he did
I was fairly honest but I didn't talk down to him
It didn't feel like I was reacting in any sort of over the top way either, can you expand?

I don't know if you're familiar with the term 'solving' in the context of Mafia redFF
It popped up in the last few years and is a synonym of 'scumhunting' only it also involves trying to find the alignment of town
This has become more common in the discourse than 'scumhunting' because solving for town has become more recognised as a legitimate means of making reads over the last few years

This came across as indignant. "Well let me lecture you about this thing we call solving because you can't figure it out yourself." Which translates to me as "How dare you accuse me of something. You've really irritated me (ie. caught me out), and I've got to take that frustration out on you now by intimidation."

[Herta]

herta, ur attitude and play are a lot different than mini 2285.
is there a reason for this

This game doesn't seem as weird as the other, and I have better reads at this point. At least more confident reads I should say.

[Herta]

I'm not sure what you think I am saying about your views beyond agreeing with you that you really, really think there are multiple scum in that pool of 3 -i dont believe ive put words in your mouth at all, but I really, really want you to expand on them and convince others to join you.

This presumes klick is town doesn't it.

[Herta]

It wasn't sarcasm it was legitimate
redFF hasn't played in several years and has been using other older terms and no one ever said 'solving' back in the good old days
He told me I wasn't scumhunting but I think it's pretty clear that I'm solving, just not in the way redFF is laying out
And I think that could be influenced by his perception of how people should be scumhunting based on how people used to play

Do you have thoughts on this or any further thoughts on my posting Herta?

Is there something in particular that you're concerned about or otherwise want me to take a look at?

[Herta]

You seemed to suspect me based on my condescension towards redFF
I've responded to that point saying that I wasn't intending to condescend

What's your take on it and how it impacts your read on me, I guess? Am I making it up? Does it alleviate your concerns? Do you have other reasons for keeping your vote on me?

On your reply to my response?

I believe that you weren't

trying

to condescend. I think you were actually trying to intimidate red, and it came through as patronizing or condescending, which those things do in the normal course. There's intimidation in the name of getting a scum read to crack, and there's intimidation as a defense mechanism.

[Herta]

[Herta]

herta i wuv u

made me giggle a lot

watched it at least 3 times by now

right back at ya buddy

[Herta]

So my initial thought is to leave my desired lim as no one seems interested in Shirou.

That's not correct. Fire says to wait a day on Shirou.

[Herta]

So my initial thought is to leave my desired lim as no one seems interested in Shirou.

That's not correct. Fire says to wait a day on Shirou.

Shirou is town yall.
I would explain but i think ill save my explanation for day 3.

I don't understand how what I said isn't correct?

You said no one is interested in Shirou. That's a misstatement.

[Herta]

Gryff is mafia! If you literally ONLY tr ATE... can't let the ATE get to you

thats fair VOTE: gryff

Not even going to try to pressure klick?

[Herta]

Firebringer why do you sound so townie?

[Herta]

this wagon has risen up so fast again tho

are u guys busing or is this really just that easy of a limbait for scum

deep questions

p-edit: fair i think i'm too curious about his flip even though it's curious how his wagon got close to lim so quickly on both days

p-edit 2: i went back to check votecount and i think it's E-1, so Gryff should claim.

VOTE: Gryff

I already did. Red is 100% correct that my post was a softclaim. Unless this is a game where role pms are lies, in which case I have no idea what my actual role would be in that case

Keep an eye on Shirou and andante. Red and Penguin too.

Intent to hammer after I get home tonight

A townie wouldn't hammer themselves let alone threaten to.

[Herta]

this wagon has risen up so fast again tho

are u guys busing or is this really just that easy of a limbait for scum

deep questions

p-edit: fair i think i'm too curious about his flip even though it's curious how his wagon got close to lim so quickly on both days

p-edit 2: i went back to check votecount and i think it's E-1, so Gryff should claim.

VOTE: Gryff

I already did. Red is 100% correct that my post was a softclaim. Unless this is a game where role pms are lies, in which case I have no idea what my actual role would be in that case

Keep an eye on Shirou and andante. Red and Penguin too.

Intent to hammer after I get home tonight

A townie wouldn't hammer themselves let alone threaten to.

And this "when I get home tonight" when is that exactly?

What do you hope to accomplish here?

HOW IS THIS GOOD FOR TOWN?

[Herta]

would be great to hear from taly before the day ends for sure

would be nice to hear from the victim too

Who is the victim again?

[Herta]

I was going to give him time to answer my questions.

[Herta]

I guess it doesn't matter.

[Herta]

TALY COME BACK

[Herta]

I had a voyeur visit last night.

Kinky.

[Herta]

I had a voyeur visit last night.

Kinky.

Did you give them a good show

I dont know i was at someone elses place so on my best behavior.

[Herta]

Partial clear on kowabungah.

[Herta]

9 left 3? Scum. I'm good with mass claim

[Herta]

I'm the motion detector. Geraintm night 1 and there was movement. Kowabungah Night 2 no movement

[Herta]

I'm the motion detector. Geraintm night 1 and there was movement. Kowabungah Night 2 no movement

why did you target anyone other than me if you suspect me so much.

All i learn is whether there was movement. If i were a cop of some sort yeah id target you but with this role i wanted ro see whos moving under the radar.

[Herta]

please when mc give exact role names so including announcing/loud modifiers

Not announcing, roaming

[Herta]

hmmmhmmm i have things to think about with this.

herta/gera call out the next person to claim.

Shirou

[Herta]

why would you think i wasn't "moving under the radar"? i could be making the nightkill @Herta

Moving under the radar means active in thread

[Herta]

please when mc give exact role names so including announcing/loud modifiers

Not announcing, roaming

so you are loud, roaming motion detector?

Yes

[Herta]

I'm the motion detector. Geraintm night 1 and there was movement. Kowabungah Night 2 no movement

Why are you leaving out part of it?

Huh

[Herta]

I'm the motion detector. Geraintm night 1 and there was movement. Kowabungah Night 2 no movement

Why are you leaving out part of it?

Huh

The roaming part? I forgot about it until i went back and checked

[Herta]

claims

HErta

- motion detector
n1 geraintm no movement
n2 kowabunga no movement

geraintm

- voyeur
N1 gryff
n2 herta

lazyshirou

- VT

firebringer

- Loud Loyal Visitor
N1 Shirou
N2 Andante

I DID detect movement on you Night 1.


Clears
Shirou from Firebringer
Andanta from Firebringer

[Herta]

claims

HErta

- motion detector
n1 geraintm no movement
n2 kowabunga no movement

geraintm

- voyeur
N1 gryff
n2 herta

lazyshirou

- VT

firebringer

- Loud Loyal Visitor
N1 Shirou
N2 Andante


Clears
Shirou from Firebringer
Andanta from Firebringer

I DID detect movement on you Night 1.

[Herta]

I'm the motion detector. Geraintm night 1 and there was movement. Kowabungah Night 2 no movement

Why are you leaving out part of it?

Huh

According to what the mod sent me, you're loud. Why not mention that? Just seems weird to leave that bit off.

Why is that weird? I mean you knew I was loud and gerantm knew it and I had already told everyone. I really hadn't even thought about it when I claimed.

[Herta]

Lying? In the game?

[Herta]

How dare they.

[Herta]

also klick targeted me last night

Did the pm say which ability?

[Herta]

Oh wow. I guess that means I can be made blind.

[Herta]

Well it would be silly for me or for Freedom to claim what we did if we were scum, so I'm given Freedom a town nod.

[Herta]

And the only way geraintm is scum based on his claim is if I'm scum with him.

[Herta]

I take that back. Geraintm could be scum voyeur. In fact that's the alignment I usually see voyeur with.

[Herta]

Well it would be silly for me or for Freedom to claim what we did if we were scum, so I'm given Freedom a town nod.

why would it be silly?

Klick's role showed that those roles were in the game. Scum wouldn't claim them due to them being too easy to counterclaim.

[Herta]

No one has fakeclaimed I'm confident

Regardless of who is scum you're all claiming your literal or very similar roles

This whole setup counters fake claiming almost

That's true.

[Herta]

Freedom or I could be scum. You're right.

[Herta]

That makes this especially difficult. Complex, as it were.

[Herta]

Um that would be helpful.

[Herta]

Nice.

[Herta]

A Motion Detector is considered Normal on mafiascum.net. A Motion Detector should receive the same result if they see an action being performed by their target as they would if they see an action being performed on their target (and the same if they see both). If their target is Ascetic or targeted by a Rolestopper, they should receive a "No Result" pm, the same as if they'd been blocked themselves. A Motion Detector would not see a Ninja performing a kill.

[Herta]

I'm going to confirm with Mod.

[Herta]

VOTE: geraintm

neat

make some coffee

or whisky firebuddy

[Herta]

This setup must be crazy.

[Herta]

Hilarious if this is firebringer, andante and shirou

[Herta]

If none of them are scum then it's kowabungah, penguin and freedom. And I don't think that's it.

[Herta]

No need for upset!

[Herta]

6 alive I guess this is mylo?

[Herta]

Wait 7 alive.

[Herta]

Motion detected at firebringer's joint.

[Herta]

All I saw was motion detected. That's all I can see.

[Herta]

FREEDOM YOU'RE UP.

[Herta]

No, it isn't the correct team.

Game is wacky.

[Herta]

Shirou is skitter redux.

[Herta]

Best yeet? kowabungah or shirou. Shirou has been scum all game. I backed off when fire said to, and shirou was townier with his analysis late yesterday. But he's not presented a case on me at all, at all. It's tiring.

Kowabungah is just poe stuff really. I don't think it's firebringer or penguin. Andante maybe but I don't have much of a handle there. Some people were calling her scum and I didn't follow it, and some town, likewise. And I can't get a handle on her myself. If anything, I'd say town.

So one of those is obviously wrong. Well if we have 3 scum.

Kowabungah just seems like low hanging, and I had that one night were I didn't see motion there, but that could mean anything.

[Herta]

VOTE: shriou

[Herta]

can you not?

Do you mean me?

[Herta]

UNVOTE:

[Herta]

Forgot elo lol

[Herta]

I got caught up in my rush to judgment ha.

[Herta]

calling me scum without voting me until he had a "case" of sorts upon my explanation of why i thought geraintm was likely to be scum

understanding how ninja works but still asking the mod for it

initially being aware of it being Mylo/ELO, but thinking it can be 6 people alive, when he also always guessed 3 player scum teams so he should know that with 6 people alive and 3 mafia, the game would be over. But then also "forgetting" it's ELO in the next page when he was also told that by PP a short bit ago.

idk what to do here other than vote herta

i'm sorry if i'm wrong yet again

You were calling me scum before any of that?

Why?

[Herta]

I view this game as either gryff being scum and herta likely being one buddy or Kowah being scum for the max troll. If all of those people are town, and Andante is town, and I assume redFF, PP and maybe Klick are more likely town than scum for some good posts there and here, geraint becomes scum by PoE, so if my main suspects are wrong and most of my town leans are right, there's decent chances of geraint being scum due to...math. he also hasn't done anything remotely townie as far as I know.

I do kinda dislike klick defending players more than attacking scum reads but /shrug, he doesn't feel that scummy to me, maybe just wrong (or maybe right??)

Explain your thinking with this post.

[Herta]

Informed makes sense given it was advertised as complex, as with the last normal game.

[Herta]

And Herta can confirm if Fire was targeted and if Fire targeted. So Herta, what's your info on Fire from last night?

Read please.

[Herta]

Just one message.

[Herta]

"motion detected on your target"

[Herta]

Same message with geraintm.

[Herta]

Where were you going with this, kowa?

[Herta]

it's been awhile and i'm not going to recheck my ISO but i remember initially thinking that gryff was scum and gryff's read on herta/gamma felt informed that there was one scum among them

very early on i thought gamma was also scummy so i didn't pay as much attention to herta but i started to gradually dislike people pilling up on me/klick/andante, i thought it was wagons where it would make sense for scum to be on and i still haven't quite changed my mind on there being scum pushing that group of people at some point in the game

herta and me were scum partners in a micro before against taly, and i think i played d1 here substantially different, on our scum game together i tried from early on to insert control in the thread and for d1 here i mostly shitposted and low efforted without caring how other people saw me.

it's not that i necessarily would expect herta to take that into consideration, it's just that his read on me sounded convenient and it does sound "convenient" today as well. it doesn't feel like he believes i'm scum as much as he wants to wagon if possible, but he didn't vote me initially on d2 and doesn't seem to unpleased to switch votes to a bigger wagon/vote with me if the opportunity arises

tl;dr is that i haven't felt like herta is scum hunting, i have felt like herta has been looking for wagons to sit on

So town gryff was informed that either gamme or I were scum.

I'm scum because you shitposted.

I'm scum because my read on you was convenient.

Explain what you mean by convenient?

[Herta]

I view this game as either gryff being scum and herta likely being one buddy or Kowah being scum for the max troll. If all of those people are town, and Andante is town, and I assume redFF, PP and maybe Klick are more likely town than scum for some good posts there and here, geraint becomes scum by PoE, so if my main suspects are wrong and most of my town leans are right, there's decent chances of geraint being scum due to...math. he also hasn't done anything remotely townie as far as I know.

I do kinda dislike klick defending players more than attacking scum reads but /shrug, he doesn't feel that scummy to me, maybe just wrong (or maybe right??)

Explain your thinking with this post.

[Herta]

My big hang up in just going full in here is that he was so quick to be cool with both of them but has only doubted the action with me which just feels weird. Like 1575 he goes all in calling Andante and Shirou both town very confidently. But in contrast after 1913, he hasn't given me that same benefit of the doubt.

He came to the realization that his clears may not be accurate and is reconsidering. I thought that was apparent.

One thing that swings me to Fire town is Herta's claim post that just something feels off about them leaving out the loud part. Like I knew they were loud already because they visited me and I was told they visited because they were loud. So to leave it out makes me think the loud was the part they were used to and they got hung up trying to be sure they typed their fakeclaim correctly.

I told everyone that I was loud in my very first post. What I forgot when I claimed was the other part, the roaming thing. You didn't find that strange when I fake claimed? You didn't find it strange that instead of claiming loud roaming motion detector I claimed just motion detector? I mean I guess I left off both modifiers. Probably because the role is motion detector and I didn't think about the modifiers. I must be going crazy. Like why are you hung up on the loud part? I softed loud, geraintm heard me visit, you heard me visit.

[Herta]

I asked Mod about this.

If a loyal action is made on a player of a different faction, it's counted as blocked. So it can't be tracked and won't show as movement.

[Herta]

If shirou and/or andante are mafia I don't know how they would even know to acknowledge firebringer's visit. Unless they were informed, but then they would have to be guessing when they were visited.

And andante said she was visited before anything right? So the loud went through.

I'm confused.

[Herta]

If I were trying to deceive anyone why wouldn't I just lie about it. So believe me or don't I don't care at this point.

[Herta]

I mean by the time i remembered that i was going to do that i was getting shit on for saying i was going to check in the first place so i said screw i guess it doesnt matter.

[Herta]

So believe me or not. I get screwed either way.

[Herta]

I just checked a half hour or so ago.

[Herta]

Right.

[Herta]

That's when i learned it would be useful after all.

[Herta]

Like i said i immediately forgot for some reason

[Herta]

My big hang up in just going full in here is that he was so quick to be cool with both of them but has only doubted the action with me which just feels weird. Like 1575 he goes all in calling Andante and Shirou both town very confidently. But in contrast after 1913, he hasn't given me that same benefit of the doubt.

He came to the realization that his clears may not be accurate and is reconsidering. I thought that was apparent.

One thing that swings me to Fire town is Herta's claim post that just something feels off about them leaving out the loud part. Like I knew they were loud already because they visited me and I was told they visited because they were loud. So to leave it out makes me think the loud was the part they were used to and they got hung up trying to be sure they typed their fakeclaim correctly.

I told everyone that I was loud in my very first post. What I forgot when I claimed was the other part, the roaming thing. You didn't find that strange when I fake claimed? You didn't find it strange that instead of claiming loud roaming motion detector I claimed just motion detector? I mean I guess I left off both modifiers. Probably because the role is motion detector and I didn't think about the modifiers. I must be going crazy. Like why are you hung up on the loud part? I softed loud, geraintm heard me visit, you heard me visit.

While you're here.

[Herta]

Having several roles with modifiers, especially modifiers that affect targeting (e.g. simple, loyal) or fundamentally affect the way one would play the role (e.g. announcing, weak)
Having some roles with several modifiers
Having a large proportion of non-vanilla roles in general
Having anything that could be construed as a red herring (e.g., two of the same town role, a backup or enabler without a main role, a neighborhood with only mafia, a miller without a cop, etc.)
Having complicated interactions between roles (e.g. multiple blocking roles that may affect each other, generally anything that might make a reviewer need to think twice about how it would work)
Having many roles that aren't seen as frequently in normal games
Anything else that would potentially defy the expectations of a player who's played normal games before

The more of these things a design has the more it lends itself to being a complex game.

[Herta]

Congrats.

[Herta]

GG