Mini Normal 2309 | Finished!

[Civil Scum]

I’m not sure so follow, will you elaborate?

[Civil Scum]

*not sure I follow

[Civil Scum]

Actually yes I can see how that could make sense.

[Civil Scum]

Why didn’t you think there is a vig? Was there something besides a guess?

[Civil Scum]

Can you link this game?

A bulletproof miller indicates to me there’s a vig in the game. From a setup standpoint, I’m not sure why else the Miller would be bulletproof. Looking at the archives, the only other game with a 1-shot bulletproof Miller did have a vig.

Now, if we get to endgame and there isn’t a vig shot or claim, then I’ll be a little suspicious.

Iavh what do you think of this analysis?

[Civil Scum]

civil scum I can see you're online you know that right? like if it's taking you this long to explain your point do you even know what your point was?

ew angleshooting

Sure looks like it to me.

[Civil Scum]

For posterity and fans of WIFOM, this time in order of decreasing scumminess:

PC
Bellaphant
Yimmy
RN
IAVH
Starfire
Greeting
Naerys
Hu Tao
KKFC
Bob
STD
Civil Scum

[Civil Scum]

Revision:

PC
Bellaphant
Yimmy
Starfire
Greeting
Naerys
IAVH
RN
Hu Tao
KKFC
Bob
STD
Civil Scum

[Civil Scum]

Revision:

PC
Bellaphant
Yimmy
Starfire
Greeting
Naerys
Hu Tao
IAVH
RN
KKFC
Bob
STD
Civil Scum

There we go that’s the one.

[Civil Scum]

Revision:

PC
Bellaphant
Yimmy
Starfire
Naerys
Greeting
Hu Tao
IAVH
RN
KKFC
Bob
STD
Civil Scum

Final.

[Civil Scum]

I haven’t thought about pairings or anything but Bellaphant and Yimmy can’t both be scum.

Naerys flipping town or scum could be enlightening given the amount of pressure she got as well as defenders as well as possibly herself giving things away so I still like her for an informational elimination if there is such a thing.

[Civil Scum]

I would also eliminate Starfire if she doesn’t post before the deadline.

[Civil Scum]

But just to be crystal clear, I think PC is obv scum at this point.

[Civil Scum]

Actually I much prefer Naerys over Starfire simply because there’s more to be learned.

[Civil Scum]

Actually I much prefer Naerys over Starfire simply because there’s more to be learned.

If you're talking about limming someone in order to get "more to be learned," you'd be the best option.

They’re number 4 and 5 on my list, switching them is definitely worth more information.

[Civil Scum]

But just to be crystal clear, I think PC is obv scum at this point.

What exactly makes him obvious Scum right now?

Past my bedtime but continual insistence of rereading but having little to say is very uncharacteristic of him.

[Civil Scum]

Continually mentioning that he is rereading I mean, as outlined in my earlier post.

His posts are mostly wandering filler. He is much more organized, deliberate and insightful when he is town.

[Civil Scum]

A little early for such a claim, but if true I mean, damn. If only you had hung in there and targeted me

[Civil Scum]

Naerys- Did you breadcrumb anywhere else?

...

Could it be Naerys and Greeting?

CS, what do you think? I think I Townread you more than most here, currently.

Naerys definitely pinged my gut as town a few times D1 and this claim sheds believable light on why she was more doubtful of there being a Vigilante in the setup and hence more believing of your claim. So I’m inclined to believe it for now. I’m not sure how much stock I put in breadcrumbs in general, especially when they only arise once pressure is high. There’s no reason to disregard the claim but I have to think about it some more. I’m not sure the claim alone moves her on my list very much.

As for Greeting, I honestly just think he’s a better player than to be playing like this as scum.

@civil, I'm honestly not following how I went from one of your strongest tr to scum? What did I miss?
Yimmy seems really town , I think pc comes off better from th civil interaction.

I’ll try to summarize later today, although I’ll say up front that my list is based on a lot of gut and a lot of deciding to put stock in other people’s reads. And most of all built on who I think is strong town.

Revision:

PC
Bellaphant
Yimmy
Starfire
Greeting
Naerys
IAVH
RN
Hu Tao
KKFC
Bob
STD
Civil Scum

Having starfire and greeting that high puts you lower on my list. Can you explain those reads?

Your last list was not in order. Is lower on your list good or bad?

Greeting I mentioned in this post. Starfire is mostly process of elimination.

I think it’s a little strange for you to ask the same question as Bellaphant. After all you are right in the middle of my list.

[Civil Scum]

Hu Tao - you may have gotten some town points from me for seeing Naerys breadcrumb and defending her instead of remaining silent. Unless you’re scum together of course.

I may need to revise my list looking at the game assuming Naerys is telling the truth.

[Civil Scum]

Revision:

PC
Bellaphant
Yimmy
Starfire
Naerys
Greeting
Hu Tao
IAVH
RN
KKFC
Bob
STD
Civil Scum

Final.

Well same question above

Oh okay, I see now.

So yeah, process of elimination, faith in other reads I’ve seen from my townies, Greeting is better than this.

[Civil Scum]

Naerys, why did you claim now rather than at E-2 or E-1?

STD, I’ll try to post some thoughts later today on this but honestly she hasn’t given us a tremendous amount to work with.

[Civil Scum]

To summarize on PC. He is usually pretty useful as a townie. I believe him to be quite stubbornly useless this game.

[Civil Scum]

On Greeting, someone who I can’t remember right now said something about how he struck them as town since he didn’t seem to be angling on anybody or pushing any agendas basically. That resonated with me.

[Civil Scum]

I also feel like he was becoming an easy mislim target.

[Civil Scum]

@std, I'm comparing to the pirate game where you got a ton of heat early on but I knew you were town, and a bit to team mafia (I just rechecked your iso there: your realist by post 800 and something has all the scum as null/scum reads and every tr is correct - good job) and I'm not getting that feeling here. Maybe give me something to work with: when I think 'what does std think of the game ' I can't get an answer.

Greeting might be town mainly because I don't see any bad faith/agenda pushing in their posts. I feel like they were genuinely trying to get understanding on both sides out of the 1v1 with civil.

Oddly enough it was Bellaphant that made this post about Greeting.

I don’t have a lot of reasoning behind suspecting Bellaphant. She is very difficult for me to read and the little bit of digging into her meta revealed one of the most consistent metas I’ve come across. I almost have her that high just because she’s too dangerous to leave hanging around. A lot of my list is process of elimination is based on townie points rather than scum points, except for PC who is obv scum to me. So in general, I would say Bellaphant is number 2 because she has no townie points as far as I’m concerned.

Yimmy is getting way too many gut townie points for my liking. This may be some sort of replacement syndrome where people are more inclined to have good feelings about the new person coming in.

If people all think Greetings replacement is great too, him and Yimmy are getting off scot-free for no good reasons that I can discern.

[Civil Scum]

Let’s not forget that PC = scum gives us two town reads on Hu Tao and Naerys if one assumes he did not break site rules in his first post.

[Civil Scum]

“Likely scum motivated”, “Clearly lashing out” “A testing of the waters”

If you reach any harder your damn arms are gonna fall off.

[Civil Scum]

You’re acting like those accusations of yours are declarative rather than your impression. Odd.

[Civil Scum]

You’re asking me to disprove your impressions of Bobs behavior, somehow insinuating that your impressions lead to an inescapable conclusion. It’s baffling behavior truly.

[Civil Scum]

And yet i normaly always solve the game

Saying im not solving is just weak sause.

VOTE: Political Clout

Notice now that I push boberino does he actually vote. This is the same.logic he is using that he defended hi tao with. If it was deserving of a vote now why wasn't it deserving of a vote them? Bob-o is clearly lashing out here since I dared attack his slot.

Lol

So what your saying is that you saw me calling you scum with it being supper obvous i was about to Vote my scum read. And you tried to get in weak sause argument before it was to late.

You havnt tried to sort any one so far this game. Not even naerys who is suppost to be you second scum read and was one of the two leading wagons at the point of your first so called "readlist".

Valid points Bob. Especially his attack on you ‘suddenly voting’.

PC, here’s another impression “clearly flailing”.

[Civil Scum]

And yet i normaly always solve the game

Saying im not solving is just weak sause.

VOTE: Political Clout

Notice now that I push boberino does he actually vote. This is the same.logic he is using that he defended hi tao with. If it was deserving of a vote now why wasn't it deserving of a vote them? Bob-o is clearly lashing out here since I dared attack his slot.

Lol

So what your saying is that you saw me calling you scum with it being supper obvous i was about to Vote my scum read. And you tried to get in weak sause argument before it was to late.

You havnt tried to sort any one so far this game. Not even naerys who is suppost to be you second scum read and was one of the two leading wagons at the point of your first so called "readlist".

This is all just post hoc rationalizing. The fact is you didn't vote me then bub.

Dictionary entry for “weak sauce”?

[Civil Scum]

You’re asking me to disprove your impressions of Bobs behavior, somehow insinuating that your impressions lead to an inescapable conclusion. It’s baffling behavior truly.

So dodging the questions? interesting, noted.

I guess it's just weird then civil scum since I'm "reaching so hard" it shouldn't be difficult to say why. Since your impression of me was that I'm reaching which is When someone over-exaggerates facts to validate their own opinion. Which facts did I over exaggerate. What set of logical beliefs are you using to say I'm reaching?

I believe the word “reaching” has many different definitions depending on context.

[Civil Scum]

As far as I can tell Bob has no solving intent behind his posts. Very early on in the game Bob becomes a well this is how you should play mafia spokesperson giving advice but never commenting themselves on alignment in regards to slots that they are talking about or talking to. Then finally he starts pushing naerys after someone else starts pushing naerys which just feels like they're piling on. Bob then does this weird thing where he "reveals" what he was doing all along after the interaction.

This seems like self-serving analysis to put it lightly.

[Civil Scum]

You know I just realized something about PC UNVOTE: PC

[Civil Scum]

Let’s not forget that PC = scum gives us two town reads on Hu Tao and Naerys if one assumes he did not break site rules in his first post.

i think you need to let this go, mods often don't enforce this rule

Good to know. It’s WIFOM at the end of the day.

[Civil Scum]

I that case, I was j/k,

CONFIRM

VOTE: Political Clout

[Civil Scum]

Ok sorry, I just thought I’d seen a rule like that somewhere.

[Civil Scum]

For posterity and fans of WIFOM, this time in order of decreasing scumminess:

PC
Bellaphant
Yimmy
RN
IAVH
Starfire
Greeting
Naerys
Hu Tao
KKFC
Bob
STD
Civil Scum

Revision:

PC
Bellaphant
Yimmy
Starfire
Naerys
Greeting
Hu Tao
IAVH
RN
KKFC
Bob
STD
Civil Scum

Final.

ok you gotta explain what happened here. did you reread? did you keep on thinking? how did the first 14 get posted? ok the first one is earlier, you had time to think. but, like, three within four minutes of each other?

I think it was really just putting things together in real time. Really only RN and IAVH are moving very much. I’m still having trouble placing them. I kind of saw what could be a very bad slip up and with so many PRs out there already, maybe throwing in a couple of masons is overdoing it.

The problem is, I kind of believe RNs claim, but he could just be playing a crafty angle and in general a good game as scum.

In my recent dealings with him he also didn’t strike me as someone who seems very worried about getting shot, which makes me believe his claim.

Those two players are really the only two that can move significantly up or down the list depending on my mood at any given moment.

[Civil Scum]

You’re asking me to disprove your impressions of Bobs behavior, somehow insinuating that your impressions lead to an inescapable conclusion. It’s baffling behavior truly.

So dodging the questions? interesting, noted.

I guess it's just weird then civil scum since I'm "reaching so hard" it shouldn't be difficult to say why. Since your impression of me was that I'm reaching which is When someone over-exaggerates facts to validate their own opinion. Which facts did I over exaggerate. What set of logical beliefs are you using to say I'm reaching?

I believe the word “reaching” has many different definitions depending on context.

Which is to say that I believe you chose a particular definition of the term in order to give your point more weight than it had. Again, very self-serving behavior and very odd for a townie.

[Civil Scum]

I only wonder when the bussing will start…

[Civil Scum]

It was such an obvious strawman, I was not going to dragged into wrestling it.

[Civil Scum]

Yimmy - PC says “this is the exact definition of reaching” and you can’t show that I’ve done this. And therefore you were also wrong to say I was reaching.

Problem is, reaching has many definitions for different people.

This is as clear an instance of strawmanning as I have seen in this game.

All 3 scum seem to just be in the: PC, Greeting, Starfire, Yimmy group. I seem to have a reason to somewhat Town read everyone else.

Why are you townreading Bellaphant, KKFC, RN, and IAVH?

[Civil Scum]

Now you’re trying to play GOTCHA, when earlier instead of trying in good faith to understand what my original point meant, you decided to strawman.

[Civil Scum]

So now you agree that the word can have a lot of different meanings?

[Civil Scum]

Yimmy - PC says “this is the exact definition of reaching and you can’t show that I’ve done this. And therefore you were also wrong to say I was reaching.”

Problem is, reaching has many definitions for different people.

This is as clear an instance of strawmanning as I have seen in this game.

All 3 scum seem to just be in the: PC, Greeting, Starfire, Yimmy group. I seem to have a reason to somewhat Town read everyone else.

Why are you townreading Bellaphant, KKFC, RN, and IAVH?

I moved the quotes in paraphrasing PC. Does that help?

[Civil Scum]

I think the intent to frame the argument in the most self-serving way possible is quite obvious.

[Civil Scum]

sorry when we're you accused of reaching cs? the post you quoted was pc defending himself against you accusing him of reaching
nobody cares how many meanings the word has. answer the question. play the game please pretty pretty please

I think we're wasting our time yimmy. You might be right he is just a really bad town player. Also when did hu tao start scum reading you? Weird. And when did he start scum reading me? Weird.

Not that weird to me, y’all got no townie cred.

[Civil Scum]

Like with Starfire, she already said this.

[Civil Scum]

Yimmy - PC says “this is the exact definition of reaching and you can’t show that I’ve done this. And therefore you were also wrong to say I was reaching.”

Problem is, reaching has many definitions for different people.

This is as clear an instance of strawmanning as I have seen in this game.

All 3 scum seem to just be in the: PC, Greeting, Starfire, Yimmy group. I seem to have a reason to somewhat Town read everyone else.

Why are you townreading Bellaphant, KKFC, RN, and IAVH?

I moved the quotes in paraphrasing PC. Does that help?

No since you haven't said what your definition is when you are using the word reaching.

My point is clearly about you strawmanning, not about what teaching means.

[Civil Scum]

*reaching means

Also to clarify, this is reminiscent of you not hearing what Starfire repeated about the early jester-vote debacle. Very selective hearing I might add.

[Civil Scum]

Yimmy - PC says “this is the exact definition of reaching and you can’t show that I’ve done this. And therefore you were also wrong to say I was reaching.”

Problem is, reaching has many definitions for different people.

This is as clear an instance of strawmanning as I have seen in this game.

All 3 scum seem to just be in the: PC, Greeting, Starfire, Yimmy group. I seem to have a reason to somewhat Town read everyone else.

Why are you townreading Bellaphant, KKFC, RN, and IAVH?

I moved the quotes in paraphrasing PC. Does that help?

No since you haven't said what your definition is when you are using the word reaching.

My point is clearly about you strawmanning, not about what teaching means.

Lol okay sure let's go with that.

Well, it seemed you were detailing the thrust of the post for some reason.

[Civil Scum]

*derailing

[Civil Scum]

You’re asking me to disprove your impressions of Bobs behavior, somehow insinuating that your impressions lead to an inescapable conclusion. It’s baffling behavior truly.

So dodging the questions? interesting, noted.

I guess it's just weird then civil scum since I'm "reaching so hard" it shouldn't be difficult to say why. Since your impression of me was that I'm reaching which is When someone over-exaggerates facts to validate their own opinion. Which facts did I over exaggerate. What set of logical beliefs are you using to say I'm reaching?

I mean here is him literally doing that.

[Civil Scum]

Defining reaching I mean.

[Civil Scum]

Which he’s doing because he is inviting me to disagree with the pattern or chronology of Bobs behavior.

Which he knows I can’t do.

The problem is, he also knows that wasn’t what I meant by saying he was reaching, and his points about Bobs behavior are super weak sauce anyways, which he also knows.

So he wants to boil the whole thing down to an issue of chronology, in a deliberate attempt to cause others to miss the point.

[Civil Scum]

See, PC says that reaching is about facts and logic. He knows I wasn’t disputing any facts he’s provided, just suggesting that his presentation of the conclusions that can be drawn was I don’t know “far-fetched”, “blown out of proportion?”

“Likely scum motivated”, “Clearly lashing out” “A testing of the waters”

If you reach any harder your damn arms are gonna fall off.

I think it’s clear I was taking issue with his conclusions and assignment of motive, not facts or chronology.

Like, he’s also just putting too much stock in his own impressions of behavior from Bob, behavior I don’t think is all that scummy.

Maybe reaching wasn’t the best word, but I’m struggling to think of what else to call it.

But it’s clear from my post where I call it reaching that I was not taking issue with the facts in any strictly logical sense, so is was strange for him to suggest that I was.

[Civil Scum]

Let’s assume Naerys is JK, do y’all think she should target me?

[Civil Scum]

bro pc never defined reaching. he wouldn't have. he was the first person to use the word. the only point in his original post was how obvious it seemed to you (by my interpretation). like if we are talking about self-serving interpretations maybe it's not the guy who used maybe vague language but actually it's you cs
is "derailing" when someone wants to talk sbout something that's not what you are talking about?

ignore my questions, im logging off

I’m sorry you feel that way. Maybe we can try again later when PC doesn’t feel like interrupting.

[Civil Scum]

sorry when we're you accused of reaching cs? the post you quoted was pc defending himself against you accusing him of reaching
nobody cares how many meanings the word has. answer the question. play the game please pretty pretty please

Since I never said I was accused of reaching, I realized you must have been confused.

I traced your confusion to my very confusing placement of quotation marks in my paraphrase of PC below.

Yimmy - PC says “this is the exact definition of reaching” and you can’t show that I’ve done this. And therefore you were also wrong to say I was reaching.

Problem is, reaching has many definitions for different people.

This is as clear an instance of strawmanning as I have seen in this game.

All 3 scum seem to just be in the: PC, Greeting, Starfire, Yimmy group. I seem to have a reason to somewhat Town read everyone else.

Why are you townreading Bellaphant, KKFC, RN, and IAVH?

Which I tried to rectify here.

Yimmy - PC says “this is the exact definition of reaching and you can’t show that I’ve done this. And therefore you were also wrong to say I was reaching.”

Problem is, reaching has many definitions for different people.

This is as clear an instance of strawmanning as I have seen in this game.

All 3 scum seem to just be in the: PC, Greeting, Starfire, Yimmy group. I seem to have a reason to somewhat Town read everyone else.

Why are you townreading Bellaphant, KKFC, RN, and IAVH?

I moved the quotes in paraphrasing PC. Does that help?

I was trying to make a good faith effort to answer your questions.

[Civil Scum]

You know Yimmy, in reading over PC and mine’s latest spat. I can’t quite figure why you wanted to get in the middle of it. Presumably PC and I are two of your top suspects arguing back in forth, yet you seem decidedly on the side of PC…

[Civil Scum]

I've changed my mind again.

I want to lock town these people
Random Nurse - claim
Yimmy - clearly solving
Civil Scum - just a bad townie causing chaos
Political Clout - obvious town
Naerys - claim
KatyKimFanClub - interaction with nearys

lean town
hu tao - I can see them trying to solve
happy - gut read
dragons - gut read

poe scum is in any order
greeting
bella
starfire
bob

In any order? Are you joking me?

[Civil Scum]

Sorry, it just really jumped out at me since I personally can’t think of a time that I didn’t have a top suspect at this stage of the game.

[Civil Scum]

However, I will also note that I have gone on to try to explain what I meant. In rereading that page I also see myself making it clear prior to your post defining “reaching” that I was not accusing you of exaggerating facts. And I gotta tell ya, I’ve been thinking about it a little and I’m not even really sure what an “exaggerated fact” is.

[Civil Scum]

VOTE: srarfire

Can you expand on your vote please?

[Civil Scum]

I would think you’d be voting for Bob.

So you’re admitting that I was taking issue with your “contentions, assertions, and assumptions” not with your facts?

Great I’m glad we cleared that up.

[Civil Scum]

I would think you’d be voting for Bob.

So you’re admitting that I was taking issue with your “contentions, assertions, and assumptions” not with your facts?

Great I’m glad we cleared that up.

You're just embarrassing yourself now lil bro. Someone needs to put you out of my misery.

[Civil Scum]

Yimmy- I don’t feel 950 was cryptic or snarky at all. I was pointing out that I disagreed with the definition of reaching that PC was proposing.

Incidentally, do you know what an “exaggerated fact”.

I feel like my behavior has been well within acceptable limits and I feel that being aggressive to provoke reactions is an entirely valid approach to interrogation.

[Civil Scum]

984 by pc is extremely weird. why does he care that hu tao scumreads me???

I think this is a very good question.

[Civil Scum]

Yimmy- I don’t feel 950 was cryptic or snarky at all. I was pointing out that I disagreed with the definition of reaching that PC was proposing.

Incidentally, do you know what an “exaggerated fact” is?

I feel like my behavior has been well within acceptable limits and I feel that being aggressive to provoke reactions is an entirely valid approach to interrogation.

[Civil Scum]

Sorry I’m being unclear. Can you help me understand what an exaggerated fact is. Because I needed to understand that before I could reply to PCs question.

At that point, I considered it much more important to discuss the strawman definition of reaching rather than play into PCs hands, trying to dispute his facts which were not at issue.

[Civil Scum]

I opted to explore

why

PC contrived such a personally favorable and impenetrable definition rather than try to understand the definition itself.

[Civil Scum]

I happen to think the discussion proved rather productive just the way it played out.

[Civil Scum]

RN, what are your thoughts on this concept?

Yimmy is getting way too many gut townie points for my liking. This may be some sort of replacement syndrome where people are more inclined to have good feelings about the new person coming in.

If people all think Greetings replacement is great too, him and Yimmy are getting off scot-free for no good reasons that I can discern.

[Civil Scum]

I've changed my mind again.

I want to lock town these people
Random Nurse - claim
Yimmy - clearly solving
Civil Scum - just a bad townie causing chaos
Political Clout - obvious town
Naerys - claim
KatyKimFanClub - interaction with nearys

lean town
hu tao - I can see them trying to solve
happy - gut read
dragons - gut read

poe scum is in any order
greeting
bella
starfire
bob

You're gonna put me in LockTown just because of my claim? Your reaction seems much different from the paranoia CS exudes in response to my claim.

I've thought it over a lot. I decided to take a leap of faith. Also I don't think you are remembering our initial interactions.

I wonder if this is running interference for Naerys belief in RNs claim which I still don’t love. Naerys early PR claim smells very newb town PR… dare I say of an industrial strength.

[Civil Scum]

ok i am done pretending to be good at resolving conflict. 984 by pc is extremely weird. why does he care that hu tao scumreads me??? it doesn't feel real at all, like he's trying to buddy or set up a weird associative

Of course, one is left to wonder if this is not a scum-scum distancing tactic based on reverse psychology.

So I’m the last two posts I have been speculating, reaching perhaps. The difference as I see it is that firstly, I truly believe PC is scum therefore it makes sense for me to begin speculating strongly.
Secondly, when PC was speculating on motive, he seemed to me to be presenting those speculations as a type of evidence in and of themselves, or he seemed to suggest or even believe himself that those speculations were somehow enhancements of his evidence, which just overstated things probably because they are not part of a larger pattern. The fact that you call them contentions and assertions whereas the situation much more warrants calling them speculations is the best explanation for what I meant by reaching.

[Civil Scum]

EBWOP: *So in my last two posts…

Friggin autocorrect, I should start previewing my posts.

[Civil Scum]

So Yimmy, even though I know you are starting to come around to my POV on the encounter.

I’d like to stress again the clarity of PCs strawmanning.

Firstly, I’d like to point out that PC defined reaching as “over-exaggerating the facts”. Possibly meaning it was incumbent upon me to show that he was not just exaggerating, but “over-exaggerating”.

Secondly, I’m still not sure what that means, but I would contend that an exaggerated fact in the context of PCs argument is a “lie”.

Therefore his setup to the argument became “You can’t show that I’m lying, therefore you can’t accuse me of reaching.”

Clearly this is a disingenuous argument no?

[Civil Scum]

Coming back to Naerys. I believe I had Naerys trapped a bit on the issue of whether it made sense for her to assume outright that there was no vigilante in this game.

People cited the complex modifier as evidence for her innocence, since that so clearly could have been a hint that other PRs existed.

Industrial strength… knowing what modifiers to throw in there to make Naerys play even more newbie seeming.

Here’s the problem, to think that Naerys didn’t read what complex meant, and then see that might indicate other PRs, is almost an insult. You’re basically saying Naerys can’t put 2 and 2 together.

If she is a newbie PR I’m not going to pile on since I know it can be a very hard position to be in, but the whole thing smells off to me.

If PC and Naerys are scum, I think we obviously have to test PC-Naerys-Hu Tao. And failing that I’d have to revisit my thoughts on KKFC.

I don’t know any of you so I wouldn’t put it past anyone to be clever enough to come up with the complex modifier misdirection. But like I’ve pretty much only played in the newbie games way back when so I don’t even know what all the possible modifiers are, where to find a list of them, let alone to know which one might serve a given defense.

PC admits to being new and not very good as scum, therefore I think if scum are PC-Naerys, then the third scum is likely to be someone very experienced.

[Civil Scum]

If Naerys and PC are scum, I’d really like to hear from everyone how many games of forum mafia they have played.

[Civil Scum]

The fact that Naerys claimed basically means I’m toast so I’m going to keep going and rereading the game to find PCs partner. I only wish there was more to go on with a few of the slots.

That said I’m actually coming around to shorter days with faster prods. Let’s get to the action already!

[Civil Scum]

Can’t people have alt accounts? Played on other sites, etc?

So far I’m noticing a lot of similarities between how PC dealt with Starfire and Bob.

This makes me lean town for Starfire.

Mainly vibes? Starfire is relaxed, enjoyed.the humour, random's response to civil is more thought out than I think scum would bother.

Now I know that Bellaphant throws out town reads early almost as a matter of course, both when she’s scum and when she’s town.

The second part of this never sat well with me. Even now I can scarcely figure out what she meant and it seemed overly favorable to RN.

Starfire points out that the first part of this was also overly favorable.

I'm only able to get the tension out of my system by screaming into my pillow before I post.

Isn't relaxation in RVS relatively easy to fake? I like the reasoning for the read on Random Nurse better.

ninja'd - there's only one of mine to read unless you recognise me from years before I came out :p

Which I don’t know, maybe early town reads are always going to seem overly favorable by default.

[Civil Scum]

Bellaphent - I am inclined to believe Bella is town. Or, at the very least, is trying to be seen to be helpful.

Possible slip since trying to be seen to be helpful is scum indicative.

[Civil Scum]

I’d like to point out that STD would enter my suspect pool if Naerys and PC are scum.

My read on them is largely meta and they clearly have enough experience to be a player who can be very manipulative in this regard.

[Civil Scum]

Still not liking KKFC inviting Naerys as pressure was beginning to build. If it was useful to make it hurt for me with my early wagon, I would think the same logic might apply to someone’s top suspect.

[Civil Scum]

if that would help start a convo?

Also, this phrase pings me after 321. The context of the game was showing that I was clearly asking you to engage with me already. Might just be me being paranoid.

However I agreed strongly at the time with KKFC here. I’ve also seen Bellaphant say something remarkably similar in one of her scum games, but I’ll never be able to find it again.

[Civil Scum]

And that was in response to:

Me? I've already said I'm really on the fence with you. I could go through your iso and green and red them if that would help start a convo?

[Civil Scum]

Maybe I'm just really paranoid like really really paranoid about everyone...forever.

Ridiculous given his latest discussion with RN.

[Civil Scum]

Naerys early breadcrumb was before I claimed and would indicate that scum didn’t have a role blocker, given that then they’d be free to not expect a cop and JK. But is that a good assumption when there are millers about?

Naerys bread crumbing so early in those circumstances seems townie to me right now but I may be turning into Charlie in the mailroom at this point

[Civil Scum]

CS can you give a short case of why you think PC is scum

VOTE: Bella for now

No you’ll have to read.

[Civil Scum]

I meant given that there may be a cop about, is it unbelievable that scum Naerys would bread crumb so early in her wagon?

[Civil Scum]

If i were scum, i would try to either avoid or lash against Random´s probing.
And here i am, trying to answear them all as well as i can.
Might be utterly unbelieveable at this point but not giving up yet.
Just trying to say that no matter what you say, the truth is only one.

Keep

at it.

which is all wifom

Mind elaborating on your Hu read as it just looks convient that you pick the other push of the main player pushing you.

You have claimed they look defensive but why?

Why do you think he could be scum. You were both recently scum together, see any similarities?

Feels a bit like an attempt to defend a scum buddy.

I don't get it? Why just ask, what's the point?

I believe Hu is trying here to avert Random´s attempt to get some reaction From Save the Dragons.

This seems like a post PC would write.

[Civil Scum]

I meant given that there may be a cop about, is it unbelievable that scum Naerys would bread crumb so early in her wagon?

What I’m trying to say is, could there be a way for them to rule out there being a cop and a JK, cause if not then it is a risky claim and unlikely to be scum indicative.

[Civil Scum]

Yimmy seems most doubtful of my claim. This is either a very clever way for scum to fish or misdirection, as I believe the scum believe me.

While I can’t rule out this level of deception, this makes me lean town on Yimmy for now and atleast rules him out of PC-Naerys since I Yimmy replaced after Naerys bread crumb and couldn’t have been the mastermind.

[Civil Scum]

Well I’m out of time today.
So far I’m thinking PC-Naerys-Bellaphant.

Bob what’s “pov”?

[Civil Scum]

I presume I don’t need to respond to such ad hom.

[Civil Scum]

CS can you give a short case of why you think PC is scum

VOTE: Bella for now

What I said about PC mentioning his own rereading while not feeling like saying much is completely out of line with his personality and style.

I believe this assessment will resonate strongly with KKFC who has played with him recently.

[Civil Scum]

Failing that, I see Greetings slot as still worthy of suspicion.

[Civil Scum]

Bellaphent - I am inclined to believe Bella is town. Or, at the very least, is trying to be seen to be helpful.

Possible slip since trying to be seen to be helpful is scum indicative.

I dont think its very fair to hold this against a non native speaker.

Perhaps… perhaps not.

[Civil Scum]

A lot of this has been speculation only based on Naerys being scum.

The only real takeaway from my reread is a strong town lean on Starfire.

If you ISO PC and compare his attack on Starfire with his attack on Bob you will see striking similarities.

The overstated impugning of motive, the backpedaling, the self doubt about his own biases…

Since I believe Bob is town, I expect Starfire to be town as well.

[Civil Scum]

CS can you give a short case of why you think PC is scum

VOTE: Bella for now

No you’ll have to read.

Like I just said, let’s see if KKFC agrees.

[Civil Scum]

If you’re not even going to read this page I simply can’t help you.

[Civil Scum]

CS can you give a short case of why you think PC is scum

VOTE: Bella for now

No you’ll have to read.

[Civil Scum]

A lot of this has been speculation only based on Naerys being scum.

The only real takeaway from my reread is a strong town lean on Starfire.

If you ISO PC and compare his attack on Starfire with his attack on Bob you will see striking similarities.

The overstated impugning of motive, the backpedaling, the self doubt about his own biases…

Since I believe Bob is town, I expect Starfire to be town as well.

This might have been confusing as I meant by “ a lot of this” was my recent posting about my reread, not anything about PC.

[Civil Scum]

If Naerys is town, the other 2 are in Greeting. Bellaphant, Yimmy, Hu Tao, or Bob.

[Civil Scum]

Other two scum, could be you too IAVH I forgot about you, everyone else is ok.

[Civil Scum]

Actually never mind Bob, he’s ok.

So if Naerys is town, the other two scum are in Bellaphant, Greeting, Hu Tao, IAVH, and Yimmy.

[Civil Scum]

lol
shoot me then

Haha, I don’t think it will come to that.

I think if Naerys is JK she’ll be roleblocked and I’ll be killed. If Naerys is scum I don’t think there’s any reason not to kill me either.

[Civil Scum]

There’s a very small chance that it could be PC-Bob-Starfire.

[Civil Scum]

Actually if Naerys is town I’d take Hu Tao off my scum list, I forgot about her staunch defense of Naerys, and her later claim that she spotted Naerys breadcrumb. Which I would be inclined to believe if Naerys flipped town.

Obviously this makes Naerys and Hu Tao a strong scum pair.

[Civil Scum]

In the event that PC flipping scum generates some confidence in my reads this game…allow me to summarize.

If Naerys is scum, the last scum is in Hu Tao, Bellaphant, or Greeting. With distant possibilities of either STD or KKFC.

If Naerys is town, the last 2 scum are in Bellaphant,Yimmy, IAVH, and Greeting. With distant possibilities of the following two pairs which I believe must be pairs: Bob-Starfire, RN-IAVH.

I am starting to lean towards Greeting as the third scum for PC-Naerys-Gretting trio.

Naerys breadcrumb was Post 485. Greetings “was calling RNs claim ‘legit’ sarcasm or not?” was in Post 492. If my theory of industrial strength newb PR claim is shown true by a Naerys scum flip, this sudden post by Greeting looks a bit like leading the witness.

[Civil Scum]

lol
shoot me then

Haha, I don’t think it will come to that.

I think if Naerys is JK she’ll be roleblocked and I’ll be killed. If Naerys is scum I don’t think there’s any reason not to kill me either.

Don’t you want me gone because I’m scum huh
Better for you to shoot me to confirm me as town than for you to kill someone else and push me.

You’re still pretty low on my list.

[Civil Scum]

Although I will add you as my furthest possibility for PC-Naerys-IAVH.

[Civil Scum]

IAVH, how many games of forum mafia have you played. Could you be capable of masterminding Naerys’ addition of the complex modifier as a deception?

[Civil Scum]

Do you think it makes sense for Naerys to rule out the existence of vigilantes in this scenario?

[Civil Scum]

Me neither.

See, I think adding the complex modifier should have even tipped her off that there may be other town PRs. Yet some believe that her not realizing this is further evidence of her newbie-ness.

What do you think of these theories?

[Civil Scum]

If you were one of the top elimination targets in D-1 as a scum, would you ever consider claiming JK and claim a strong read on a townie based on a lack of vigilantes, such that you would be in essence fishing for two counter claims at once?

[Civil Scum]

Hu Tao, in rereading the game post-Naerys breadcrumb, I see you not only defending Naerys but calling attention to her breadcrumb post by referencing it a few times such as here:

Yeah personally I like the post since it seems sincere. What do you think? I'm surprised more people don't see it that way

Why did you opt to call attention to the post so directly instead of defending Naerys without doing so?

[Civil Scum]

Why is it hard to fake claim?

[Civil Scum]

I’m pretty new to a lot PRs. Can you explain this further for a PR newb such as myself?

[Civil Scum]

Naerys, in your next post after claiming JK, you wrote this.

I was trying to avoid attention. Especially the scum, since i didnt want to get nked at n1. It doesnt really matter, does it?

Can you explain this a bit more. In what ways might a person tip off scum to their being a PR?

[Civil Scum]

We are running out of time. KKFC, please come back and do the right thing. And ask yourself where PC’s “wall posts” are?

CS can you give a short case of why you think PC is scum

VOTE: Bella for now

What I said about PC mentioning his own rereading while not feeling like saying much is completely out of line with his personality and style.

I believe this assessment will resonate strongly with KKFC who has played with him recently.

[Civil Scum]

Though many of my scum pairings depend on which way Naerys alignment goes, I will say that in isolation I am very much on the fence with regard to her alignment.

She does sound very genuine at times, such as in this post below:

I think
A
More
Tactical approach to crumbing
Ought to be used
When crumbing
Now

Not everyone is as creative as you.

[Civil Scum]

There is something to be said about letting the thread breathe and allowing for interactions between other players. At present someone is allowing scum to hide.

Yeah I’ve been overboard but almost no one has posted in like two days so…

[Civil Scum]

Also welcome Looker!

[Civil Scum]

I’m pretty new to a lot PRs. Can you explain this further for a PR newb such as myself?

I'm not sure what you want me to explain further, sorry

I still don’t understand why it’s harder to fake claim JK than BG or Cop.

If you were one of the top elimination targets in D-1 as a scum, would you ever consider claiming JK and claim a strong read on a townie based on a lack of vigilantes, such that you would be in essence fishing for two counter claims at once?

Only if I were one.
jk is not an easy role to fakeclaim, bear that in mind

Why is it hard to fake claim?

Why is it hard to fake claim?

You’re being a roleblocker AND a doc

Yep easier for scum just to claim something like doc/bg, so if naerys was scum it would far more likely that it would be a true claim. And if the player was fishing for roles before their flip then there are better claims too. So either naerys is scum 2 shot jk or rookie town 2 shot jk

So let me get this straight, JK can also be a scum role, therefore Naerys might have “truly” claimed complex JK. This means she might have done so without realizing that it ran counter to her assumption about vigilantes.

That’s interesting and might mean that I need to adjust my scum pool for PC-Naerys-X since the third scum no longer need be a mastermind. I think I got on that idea based on how newbie the earlyness of the claim seemed coupled with someone saying they thought the complex modifier running counter to her vigilante assumption was further evidence of her newbie-ness.

[Civil Scum]

Okay I’m beginning to understand, thought I think that’s could serve as more evidence of my industrial strength theory.

IAVH, in your example, couldn’t the mafia roleblock the JK, allowing the investigative PRs action to go through, thereby making the JK look guilty?

[Civil Scum]

*though I think that could serve…

[Civil Scum]

Hu Tao, will you answer this question?

Hu Tao, in rereading the game post-Naerys breadcrumb, I see you not only defending Naerys but calling attention to her breadcrumb post by referencing it a few times such as here:

Yeah personally I like the post since it seems sincere. What do you think? I'm surprised more people don't see it that way

Why did you opt to call attention to the post so directly instead of defending Naerys without doing so?

[Civil Scum]

Naerys, question for you:

Naerys, in your next post after claiming JK, you wrote this.

I was trying to avoid attention. Especially the scum, since i didnt want to get nked at n1. It doesnt really matter, does it?

Can you explain this a bit more. In what ways might a person tip off scum to their being a PR?

Can you elaborate on what you meant by this post?

[Civil Scum]

She is the only JK claim. I have claimed Vig.

[Civil Scum]

being a jailkeeper fakeclaim is 100% harder than being a cop/doc/bg fakeclaim
now
jk does both doc and rb
so basically you are fucked when a investigative pr claims and tells you to rb them to test if you are real, you get turboed if
1. they die
2. they don't get a NO RESULT (action failed)
while cop is easier because you can pull NOT MAFIA/MAFIA inspects out of your ass
doc=I don't care I'm literally going to put I docced this n1 docced that n2 and because doc doesn't know if action failed it's p easy to fakeclaim
tbh I have never seen a mafia jk in my mafia career, not even in closed setups

Ive seen 2 to 3 and in one of those games i was the 2 shot jail keeper. They tend to be just flavoured scum roleblockers unless town has somethign like role cop or vigs

Can a scum JK target a scum partner?

[Civil Scum]

My only comment on RN right now is that a lot of his BP Miller talk, about what we should watch out for, the scum with push a lim to get me off the board etc, makes complete sense from the POV of town-RN, but it doesn’t quite jive with the level of suspicions he says that everyone should have.

[Civil Scum]

I finally got around to clicking on all the links in Yimmy’s big catch-up post.

I will say that I see a genuine effort and sometimes accurate effort to detect if other players are having genuine thought processes.

I am a lean town on Yimmy after going through this post.

I’ll respond to this point for now:

Post 104 Did cs believe that rn’s claim is nai? I think a vig should like that claim a lot more than anyone else

I’ve never played a game with any of these three things: a vigilante, bullet-proofness, a miller. I was not thinking clearly on any of this at the time, and certainly was not capable of discerning any information about the setup. I just read about millers and decided that getting a cop guilty result seems like a weird role that can never be tested without eliminating the player.

It was only later I even began thinking about the BP modifier. And it was PC incidentally who first asked why RN wouldn’t just let the scum waste a NK.

You seemed to agree with that question.

So here I am still null on the miller claim and am town leaning on RN for other reasons. But I’m wondering a little why you think I would have liked the claim initially?

What do you think of RNs claim, especially his thought process about how we should all think about it?

[Civil Scum]

I can read it that way definitely.

Though the bolded looks a little like something that could go without saying?

I was trying to avoid attention.

Especially the scum, since i didnt want to get nked at n1

It doesnt really matter, does it?

I know it can be very frustrating to be accused of scum and not know how to defuse people’s suspicions.

Would you characterize yourself as a person that is easily frustrated, or difficult to frustrate?

[Civil Scum]

So Yimmy, even though I know you are starting to come around to my POV on the encounter.

I’d like to stress again the clarity of PCs strawmanning.

Firstly, I’d like to point out that PC defined reaching as “over-exaggerating the facts”. Possibly meaning it was incumbent upon me to show that he was not just exaggerating, but “over-exaggerating”.

Secondly, I’m still not sure what that means, but I would contend that an exaggerated fact in the context of PCs argument is a “lie”.

Therefore his setup to the argument became “You can’t show that I’m lying, therefore you can’t accuse me of reaching.”

Clearly this is a disingenuous argument no?

no i think he literally misunderstood your case and then his understanding was clear because of good communication

The fact that Naerys claimed basically means I’m toast so I’m going to keep going and rereading the game to find PCs partner. I only wish there was more to go on with a few of the slots.

That said I’m actually coming around to shorter days with faster prods. Let’s get to the action already!

how does it mean you're toast? umm actually after the multiquote your thoughts became more clear. still feels like a lot of assumptions are happening though

CS can you give a short case of why you think PC is scum

VOTE: Bella for now

No you’ll have to read.

please ("please" to cs. do not condone his behavior here)

CS can you give a short case of why you think PC is scum

VOTE: Bella for now

No you’ll have to read.

Lmao it's highly likely people are just skimming your posts and not reading them. Given that every other page you call someone else scum with me. So far I'm scum with naerys yimmy and std. Let's not forget your other scum reads of RN happy and kkfc or was it bellaphant?

I think you might have to be the lim today. Town can't move forward with a player continuously blocking them from winning the game.
You refuse to answer questions.
You refuse to give concise reads.
You refuse to engage in logic and go off on your own tangents.
You refuse to generally communicate with other players.
You're like in your own world man.

VOTE: civil scum

For the good of the town this has to happen.

i just can't read pc's posts as sincere anymore. like there's not necessarily a good motive here.. but ugh. maybe it's because we haven't had a heart to heart yet. pc do you want to talk with me about being nice?

CS can you give a short case of why you think PC is scum

VOTE: Bella for now

No you’ll have to read.

like at least quote me looking like a dumbass if you're going to pretend your holier than thou efforting is important to you

std keeps posting banger after banger

tbh I have never seen a mafia jk in my mafia career, not even in closed setups

And you´ll not see it this time either.

this post doesn't seem on brand. don't like it.

i'm still comfortable sheeping kkfc or std but maybe only if i like their vote (bella is super null so i'm not hyped to jump there). if i had to think for myself i would go rn or pc i guess. struggling to choose which one right now. i could still read scum motivation into cs' posts
i'm out of town tomorrow so i will vote tonight and and that'll be it for the game day from me probably

i think a miller is at low risk of a mafia shot so bulletproof-ness implies there's a town shot somewhere.
i am confident that claiming is bad play for a 1-shot bulletproof miller so i'm inclined to call it scum-indicative but overall i've been ignoring it. i'm gonna be honest i haven't thought too much about how he's talking about it cause those are mostly conversations that i'm not a part of and don't have a reason to be a part of. from what i can remember he's kinda begging people to be skeptical of his own claim which is... extremely weird? i did not fact check this though. i will think about it more before i vote

I would agree with this about RN. Maybe not the begging part, but yes he is very suspicious of those not more skeptical of his claim, while also counseling us to be vigilant about how people are approaching or attacking his claim and slot.

He’s kind of saying, be suspicious, but be wary of those who have suspicions and are coming after me.

It’s almost as if he has set up a litmus test that is, dare I say, “two-faced”. (No shade I just couldn’t resist).

I still don’t like him for the mastermind in PC-Naerys-X though…bringing the whole JK claim full circle to some sort of BP Miller gambit is a bridge too far right now even for my theory crafting.

[Civil Scum]

Naerys, assuming that PC is scum and did not clear his first post with you beforehand, if you were his scum partner, would you be frustrated by that or would you think the play is either null or smart?

If you’d like, who are your current scum or townie reads and why?

[Civil Scum]

Trying to think of what Bob and Civil both voting for PC means? Probably nothing but it's an interesting wagon proposal.

Yiimy and RN are on board. STD is listening… that’s almost 5. Don’t be late!

[Civil Scum]

Okay I’m beginning to understand, thought I think that’s could serve as more evidence of my industrial strength theory.

IAVH, in your example, couldn’t the mafia roleblock the JK, allowing the investigative PRs action to go through, thereby making the JK look guilty?

welp
do we even have a roadblocker

I don’t know, I just realized in my counter example the Cop would just die, but that wouldn’t make the JK guilty.

[Civil Scum]

I think I'd like to see actual pressure put on Bellaphant. It seems that slot is just gliding under the radar currently.

I thought you cornered PC pretty well.

I mean, leap of faith?

How about PC D-1 and Bellaphant can be dealt with D-2?

[Civil Scum]

I'm back. Going to look through the game. Anything relevant worth mentioning?

Based on my meta analysis, his subsequent feigned ignorance about my point about rockers and voting for Greeting, and his blatant strawmanning, I am 95%+ sure that PC is mafia.

[Civil Scum]

And I should add that I thought he looked very bad during RNs questioning.

[Civil Scum]

I think it was like 25 hours before the timer froze for Starfire replacement.

[Civil Scum]

Active, aggressive, strongly targetive of individuals. But less probing in my questioning and there’s less connective tissue in my reasoning.

If PC isn’t scum annd I somehow survive N1, eliminate me D-2.

[Civil Scum]

I don’t think I should name my shot today or D-2.

[Civil Scum]

They would be disappointing because I'm a liar: I said I would read and I haven't. I don't want to vote with iamveryhappy because they didn't assist my entrance into the game (nothing personal), so I'm voting against them. Political Clout at least told me what the claims were.

Don’t you mean Hu Tao?

Also it was me who you are referring to on the claims question, unless PC was in your PT. I also forgot to mention RNs claim at the time, ie- the proverbial elephant in the room.

I don’t care how scummy Greetings spot was, I’m willing to give Looker more time if he’s willing to put it in.

I won’t be voting for anyone besides PC.

[Civil Scum]

They would be disappointing because I'm a liar: I said I would read and I haven't. I don't want to vote with iamveryhappy because they didn't assist my entrance into the game (nothing personal), so I'm voting against them. Political Clout at least told me what the claims were.

Don’t you mean Hu Tao?

Also it was me who you are referring to on the claims question, unless PC was in your PT. I also forgot to mention RNs claim at the time, ie- the proverbial elephant in the room.

I don’t care how scummy Greetings spot was, I’m willing to give Looker more time if he’s willing to put it in.

I won’t be voting for anyone besides PC.

iamveryhappy was voting Starfire, so I voted with Starfire (who was voting Hu Tao). It didn't look beneficial to start a wagon on iamveryhappy.

and yes, it was you, the orangutan - the adjective/noun names are throwing me off.

i agree with bob that the stalemate needs to be thrown off, and that's kind of what i was doing with my vote for hu tao.

Ok, I see, why not vote for one of the leading wagons then? Might I suggest the one not on someone who has been gone for 5 days and is being replaced and who it isn’t even clear why anyone is voting for them.

[Civil Scum]

Scum moving too opportunistically could be too telling. I’m not buying this wagonomic malarkey, although I admit to being new to it.

[Civil Scum]

A no lim is a decent result for scum rather than appear too opportunistic I’ll point out.

[Civil Scum]

Bob, you were right about PC not trying to sort out Naerys. He voted Greeting without trying to sort him either.

Don’t talk yourself out of this one

[Civil Scum]

They would be disappointing because I'm a liar: I said I would read and I haven't. I don't want to vote with iamveryhappy because they didn't assist my entrance into the game (nothing personal), so I'm voting against them. Political Clout at least told me what the claims were.

If you meant CS instead of PC, I don’t really see what that has to do with Hu Tao or IAVH?

[Civil Scum]

Bob, couldn’t the scum be reluctant to move if they were moving from town to scum?

Looker, ok I see it now. Since you meant CS, maybe you’ll vote PC with me?

[Civil Scum]

Bob I don’t follow this at all. And I’m very confident it will be disproved this time.

[Civil Scum]

Who here is interested in voting Hu Tao currently?

me
I would switch to Naerys if you wanted me to

I cant get this post out of my head. At first i
overlooked it but with time it feels more and
more wrong.
I feel as if IAVH was trying to buddy with RN. Agreeing to vote with the townie (well, possible townie from my POV) and subtly suggesting different target, who is being suspected aswell. Is it attempt to divert attention from Hu Tao? No idea about that.

I agree it looks kinda bad, but I’ve not seen many scum slips pan out in actuality. Also the ESL thing…

But I agree if one of them flips scum, this slip must be tested.

[Civil Scum]

I could see it that way yes. It was a very strange post.

[Civil Scum]

I have to revise my solve for posterity and ego.

If Naerys is scum, the last scum is in Hu Tao, Bellaphant, or Greeting. With distant possibilities of either STD or KKFC.

If Naerys is town, the last 2 scum are in Bellaphant, KKFC, IAVH, and Greeting. With distant possibilities of the following two pairs which I believe must be pairs: Bob-Starfire, RN-IAVH.

Mostly I’m taking Yimmy off the Naerys=town list and replacing him with KKFC, as I am struggling to believe that he does not see how much different PC is playing this game.

[Civil Scum]

Just to be clear, I will be voting for PC even if he claims Cop.

[Civil Scum]

That’s enough players out right now that this wagonomics business is kind of out the window right?

[Civil Scum]

I am becoming more suspicious of RN as well. And including the BP modifier in his claim only served scum not town.

I never looked into IAVHs meta so I have no opinion on that.

[Civil Scum]

KKFC, can you please define a PC “wall post” and then link to one in this game?

[Civil Scum]

Hmm some of his defensive tactics are quite similar there. I could scarcely think of better posts for you to quote.

Confirm

VOTE: Political Clout

Fos: KKFC

[Civil Scum]

I’m quite sure that PC is mafia.

Your links seem rather selective.

This marks either the third time you’ve sprung to the defense of a townie, unless there’s more to it than that…

[Civil Scum]

Perhaps selective was not the right word, how about suggestive.

[Civil Scum]

I don’t think as town you’d be “playing” anything.

[Civil Scum]

I just think it’s interesting word choice.

[Civil Scum]

Like I said, just interesting word choice. I’m just fishing for a response.

Who are you thinking of voting for?

[Civil Scum]

Ah the ole policy lim, ya love to see it.

[Civil Scum]

[Civil Scum]

Welcome Dannflor!

On Looker right now, I kind of have to give him some credit for admitting he didn’t read up. I could be wrong but I might expect a scum to skim through and present a few half-baked ideas.

[Civil Scum]

I went after PC, maybe he wasn’t the one who picked the fight?

[Civil Scum]

Oh yeah, that post was suboptimal, no disagreement there.

[Civil Scum]

So which is it, a good move to go after me or a bad move cause you’ve kind of changed your time in subsequent posts here.

[Civil Scum]

*changed your tune

[Civil Scum]

I liked PC's entrance to the game and read progression on my slot

maybe I'm having a hard time getting over that

Wasn’t his read progression on Greeting…never mind finding scum, CS is anti-town but probably town?

[Civil Scum]

Oh sorry i got you mixed up with Greeting/Looker.

[Civil Scum]

I’m down to 90% confidence on my PC read.

[Civil Scum]

Actually 92%.

[Civil Scum]

Go on…

Yimmy, can we please have a heart to heart?

[Civil Scum]

I voted for PC because I was bored

Why do you seem more interested in the game as scum than as town?

[Civil Scum]

I always thought it was weird that scum!PC didn’t push Greetings spot. Not sure if it’s alignment indicative.

[Civil Scum]

Go on…

Yimmy, can we please have a heart to heart?

this is a really hard question to answer

Why?

[Civil Scum]

Ah I was just joking. I like you though you seem like a nice guy.

No motives just not willing to change my reads at this late date (though am feeling alright about Dannflor so far.)

Kinda just waiting for people to make up their mind.

[Civil Scum]

Welcome BBMolla!

[Civil Scum]

Looker, you’ve had a couple days now. Are you caught up? If not, do you intend to catch up by D-2 or no?

[Civil Scum]

I still maintain that Greeting is too good to have played that scummy, but I’d certainly vote Looker if he’s not caught up D-2.

[Civil Scum]

You can get a pass from me by voting with Yimmy.

[Civil Scum]

Naerys, why aren’t you voting for IAVH?

[Civil Scum]

UNVOTE:

Any specific questions for me

I think we should execute Miller claim day 2 unless we’re like convinced beyond a shadow of any doubt

You don’t think feigned ignorance, strawmanning, and never pressuring your scum reads are scummy?

[Civil Scum]

I’d like to point out that I’m referring more to PC vs Greeting and PC vs Naerys more than PC vs Starfire or PC vs Bob, since the latter two were not scum reads but just going after people for ludicrous reasons.

[Civil Scum]

This feels good, though. My pulse is quickening. How do I prove I'm town without fully reading through the thread? Is it even possible? It's exhilarating.

Do you plan to catch up by D-2?

[Civil Scum]

Here’s your summary:

Confirm

VOTE: Political Clout

Yimmy wants to do it but he’s hesitating for some reason.

[Civil Scum]

Uh-huh

[Civil Scum]

UNVOTE:

Any specific questions for me

I think we should execute Miller claim day 2 unless we’re like convinced beyond a shadow of any doubt

You don’t think feigned ignorance, strawmanning, and never pressuring your scum reads are scummy?

In general sure but that’s PC’s town meta

How many games have you played with or read of PCs?

[Civil Scum]

Hi friends

I’m town, PC looks town

I have tech rehearsal all day and I’m understudying so should have plenty of reading time.

You really think PC came out of RNs questioning looking town?

[Civil Scum]

I agree KKFC is fence sitting a little, but I don’t have any meta to suggest if that is town or scum for him.

[Civil Scum]

Most of my scum read on KKFC would be based on PC or Naerys flipping scum since I haven’t liked his defense of either of them.

[Civil Scum]

STD - you know I’m right about your meta, how about you trust me on PC?

[Civil Scum]

BBMolla, please explain to me how RN vs PC convo from earlier was townish.

[Civil Scum]

It began in Post 1015 viewtopic.php?p=13872533#p13872533

[Civil Scum]

RN’s reactions seemed contrived. There was literally nothing PC said that was unreasonable and most of how the response went was townish due to the annoyance.

RN’s posts seem to be reaching for scum reasons

It does seem a bit contrived and theatrical but to say nothing PC said is unreasonable is just ridiculous.