Mini Normal 2314 - The Mafia Have a Cop [END]

[UnaBombaH]

And the Cop-talk too.
Don't forget about the Cop-talk.

[UnaBombaH]

Humor me Drew. Use some of your brainpower on this, and then we can leave it behind us and just agree that you are town.
This is the one thing that I want you to consider - IF you were an outsider looking in on this situation - can you see the potential for a DISloyal Mailman?

[UnaBombaH]

Again - if you are scum here with the new info we have, you'd definitely be scum with marci. That I am not arguing at all.
But you are, again, very firmly stepping away from and dissing the realm of possibilities for the scenario where the Mailman is disloyal.
You make it sound like the odds are astronomical - which they aren't.
Why would the odds for a Loyal Mailman be higher than a Disloyal one?

And still, AGAIN, I am not trying to make this into a 1v1.
I'm trying to discuss the scenario here with you, because it really interests me and might help me to 1) trust you 2) trust the Mailmans judgement.

[UnaBombaH]

And before you keep bashing your head to the wall with the avoidance of my question, to which I'd rather get a firm answer, consider the marci-scenario first.
They keep saying THEY KNOW they are Loyal because it says so in their role-PM.
You claim here that YOU KNOW that the Mailman had to be Loyal because YOU KNOW that you are Town and they say they are Town.

[UnaBombaH]

I'm 100% in for a marci limm today.
But I can also say with a 100% certainty that the Mailman is not Loyal, so if that is your only reasoning for voting marci, don't.
The wording and angle in that message is absolutely not from a straight forward town!Loyal!Mailman. It just isn't.

[UnaBombaH]

Town!Loyal!Mailman wouldn't have to format their words in any way.
Scum wouldn't get it, and a townie getting it doesn't clear the Mailman themselves anyway.
So a Loyal town!Mailman would just say something/anything to help THEM get the conf. from their target during the day = THEY can either out the one conf.town or continue building reads.
No need for mysteries or weirdness.
100% not a Loyal Mailman, and the logic is there.

[UnaBombaH]

OK Drew, you are not going to come up with anything else regarding this for now?
You seemed a bit annoyed by my questions, which obv. wasn't my intention, but I hoped you would've come up with something else/more anyway.

FL you around anymore?

[UnaBombaH]

There's a logic here.
If you just stop to think about the idea of a Town Loyal/Disloyal Mailman sending a message to scum!Drew you could come up with a glaring issue.

[UnaBombaH]

Do you read what I write?

[UnaBombaH]

I want to agree with you Roden.
I was just thinking whether Drew could be reasoned with here, but it seems like it can't be done.
I was hoping for a more neutral approach to the discussion, but they keep getting agitated.

[UnaBombaH]

You know what I was after though Boon?
I feel like we could've gotten more out of that if Drew were to engage with the thought-exercise, which they simply refused to do it seems.
It took hundreds of posts for FL to point out my Traitor-posts and to come up with my potential claim-crumbs from my posts.

And none of you take the time to think from scum!Drew-perspective which really worries me, since it comes across as either TMI or too eager to townbin Drew based on floppy actions claimed by the target himself.

Scum!Drew would have had a very simple task of "disarming" that gambit you see?

[UnaBombaH]

Drew is arguing that Una can't be 100% certain that the Mailman isn't Loyal. To be 100% certain would require either a flip or for Una to be informed.

"You know additional information about the setup: The Mailman isn't Loyal." would certainly be a badass PM to get

[UnaBombaH]

Regardless of the Loyal-talk: Drew is NOT conf. town (unfortunately), and marcii is simply not playing the game.
Correctly, or at least not at all "for town", it seems.
Arguing about what their PM says is just super silly and dumb.

Limming marcii today at least either gives us scum in marcii or a conf.town in Drew.
So if we have a protective hidden we might even get to enjoy a day of that D3.
Worst case scenario would be limming town!marcii (still wouldn't feel a lot of guilt over it based on their posts -_-' ) and then losing Drew N2, because we'd get very little information from those.

[UnaBombaH]

I went ahead and read an entire old game while bored.
Yet I didn't have the energy to read this whole game again from start..

[UnaBombaH]

Guys i dont get why you want to elim town so badly like im literally loyal neighbourizer it says here in my role dm

If i wasnt how could drew be in a hood w me

I mean like..this is sort of starting to be hilarious now.

[UnaBombaH]

Don't worry about it.. Just stay #marciStrong

[UnaBombaH]

Is it even possible for a scum!Drew to get that message from a town!DisLoyal Mailman, and them to just leap up at the possibility of getting a townclear/towncred. ?

nah that logic doesnt track from a scum!drew pov

I KNOW it SHOULDN'T.
And I blatantly here said as much, but they still didn't take the one exact stance that would've told me that they thought it through.
Meaning that all of this is still NAI when it comes to Drew.
Because based on their answers to me, I've got a feeling that scum!Drew might've been susceptible to being hoodwinked.

Like there's still stuff to be said about all of this, I'm sure, but I want to have that discussion with more players around.
This is my first game on site in a long time, but I don't remember time differences ever causing this much trouble to me?
Feels like the whole player list is constantly like on a literal 12h-12h different shift from me.

[UnaBombaH]

Please people, don't speed-lim marci!
They seem to be not giving anything worthwhile to us, sure, but the rest of us ought to talk at least a little before EOD.

[UnaBombaH]

They have at least 3 votes already, and at 5 they might just as well self-hammer with how their posting has been so far.
It really benefits scum here more if we don't talk our other reads at all.

[UnaBombaH]

And yea yea, LAMIST-Una trying to act worried the day ends before TOWN gets to talk.
But the matter of fact is that I'm going to sleep within a couple of hours, and I'd prefer discussing some of the leftover stuff before D3.

[UnaBombaH]

i think firebringer and hu tao come off as town actually if this flips red, i really doubt scum sees marci here and tries to save her

Agree with this, to a degree.
I was looking forward to some more direct discussions with FL, Drew and Hu Tao to feel more certain about my reads so far.

[UnaBombaH]

Im too occupied with studying and my friends funeral ro do it rn

I'm very very sorry for you, I truly am.
I feel like we should be able to guarantee that something this awful going on IRL to you deserves SOME consideration from all of us, but it still shouldn't/doesn't affect the way your actions are read.
Meaning that maybe it would be for the best for you to mainly avoid posting here until friday altogether?

Keep the activity to a minimum, and when you have the time and energy to actually contribute and play, then make your arguments and plead your case? (I assume everyone should be able to agree with this?)

[UnaBombaH]

I've seen it, and heard of it.
I also reread like four old completed games to refresh my memory on some stuff, and came across a setup where is was known knowledge that "scum don't have daytalk".
The same game had a 3p hood with daytalk, that had 2S/1T in it..

[UnaBombaH]

I was in that hood as the sole townie, and wasn't eliminated until lategame, but it was a good reread (both the very short PT and the game), because scum could've either
A) killed me early in the game and basically had a daytalk for 2/3 of them. In a game where it was known that scum don't have daytalk
B) the route which they took after the other scum in our hood was limmed --> I took it for granted that my remaining neighbor was town.

So no, I don't think setup-talk is going to help us here at all.

[UnaBombaH]

I still think Traitor isn't a given, I'm disappointed how D2 went, and I'm honestly not liking Drews claim.
Unless my townread on gera is wrong, I think there's still a good chance for scum in FL/HuTao.
Gonna need those two cups of coffee first

[UnaBombaH]

Stupid question and you should know that.
You think scum!Una would openly say that they are disappointed because scum was limmed?

I think D2 was VERY disappointing in the sense that marci was always going to be the limination to me since they couldn't conf.town themself --> we could've talked a lot more beforehand.
I "wisely prophetized" as much D1. (I thought it was obvious based on their claim and kept saying as much)

There is a 100% Traitor if you are Town.
To me, there is 0% a Traitor if you are scum.
I think scum leaving you alive should be enough for you to stop acting like you should be conf.town to everyone, and realize that you still have to try and actually solve.
There's wine all over the table, and that's exactly what scum wanted D2.
We gave them that by speedlimming.

I would've LOVED to hear more logical discussion from you based on that message, but I felt like players like you and FL just wanted to end the day with minimal discussion.
So even the theoretical conversation with you holds minimal value to me now, because you might've been coached in the PT anyway. So that chance is gone now as well.
Scum also made sure I didn't have time to explain my angle or actions yesterday, leaving me on the table as a potential mislimm still.

I'm still uncertain about Danns reaction to unvoting - they either knew very well they were hammering, or they believed my "out of my ass"-votecount.

[UnaBombaH]

For selfish reasons, I might just want Drew limmed today.
To me the remaining scum are within Drew/FL/HuTao/Dann.
I'm obviously going to read the game from the start so I might def. change my mind.

[UnaBombaH]

I guess scum!Drew doesn't have a lot of reasons to clear me from being the Traitor.
Especially since I'd argue I'm a very unlikely group!scum based on most peoples reads (??) and I'm the one who constantly keeps shouting that there might not be a Traitor.

[UnaBombaH]

Funnily enough I thought at night that Roden or Bulge would make for great NKs because I had no actual reads on them, but I wanted scum to take out Drew even more just to get the WIFOM outta here asap.

[UnaBombaH]

I think I want to hear from Hu Tao and gera the most right now.
Where their heads/reads are at.
What they talked about over night.
You know, basic stuff.

[UnaBombaH]

I might be tunneling this game, sure.
But you should also know that objectively your actions D2 are NAI considering the open wolfing by marci that took place.
I'm not blaming you specifically for that fastlim, but you did your part to make it very quick.
I'd actually think scum!FL would hardbuss marci in that scenario, and it would've been discussed in the scum-pt as well.

[UnaBombaH]

I did briefly feel scum!Drew =//= scum!FL somehow.
Although that claim by Drew is literally something that I can see scum!FL suggesting.
Weird/wonky enough to not seem too "easy" and normal. Reasonable and setup specific enough to be believable by most.
I do think that having an informed role literally for confirming the existence of the Traitor feels just wrong though. Most of you already assumed that presence anyway. I might've been the only one to question it.
Plus IF there's no Traitor, it's in the scums best interest to hide it anyway. Especially now that we have one flipped group!scum.

[UnaBombaH]

Hard disagree.
But not worth the argument either.

[UnaBombaH]

You have no idea how much my "tunneling"/tunneling has been refueled by these few pages btw. Mainly because I called ahead some things that scum might want to do early on. And you and Drew have delivered most of those.

[UnaBombaH]

Marci's elimination was baffaling.
I have no idea how they managed to get themselves eliminated, and why they stuck to their "I'm loyal" bit and refuse to budge from it.

THIS was my point.
scum!FL might've been able to get marci out of that situation WITHOUT the open wolfing, but with the way they decided to act yesterday pretty much confirms to me that it was premeditated.
So WHOEVER is their partner honestly must've known how marci was gonna play D2, and the claimed/actual result on Drew was premeditated as well.

[UnaBombaH]

I have like 100% certainty from my side that I’d have been able to get Marci out of it if I was ever their partner, and you even said earlier you had seen me with partners all get in weird claim situations and get out of it.

Unless it is literally scum!FL with scum!Drew and that is the partner that you DECIDE and CAN save.
marci might've been willing or even adamant they wanted to go based on their posting D2.

[UnaBombaH]

If you are not touching them today, I'm afraid no one is touching them ever and they are just left to be a wine stain on the table.

[UnaBombaH]

Or is the day that Hu Tao gets wagoned, now that I'm not half as interested in limmin them anymore?

[UnaBombaH]

So you think a complex game is solvable by claims?
Genuinely asking.

[UnaBombaH]

but i mean 15 pages when the lim was always gonna be marci? idk what una is so upset about

15 pages of hot air and marci open wolfing?
I'm not gonna "snap out" of anything if it involves telling ourselves that we utilized D2 in any good way.

[UnaBombaH]

I'm going to do this once more, and then move on to other subjects.
But please stop skating over legit possibilities because someone says shit like "basically conftown" or "I don't think they would do this as teammates". Or "of course there is a Traitor".
Anyone can do or say anything, and unlike Drew implied D2, it has NOTHING to do with odds, and everything to do with people trying to gambit and cleverly use a caught scum slot with WIFOM.
(Drew and FL can just skip this since you either have to or want to disagree with this anyway, so.. )

Why you over me?

I am basically confTown now.....

no matter Marci's alignment.

Unless scum want to push

that this is a Marci/Drew scum gambit.

This is Drew basically falsely saying that marci = town. While also LITERALLY SAYING that marcis alignment doesn't matter + "unless scum gambit".
And note the way they format the sentence - not that marci is scum faking anything, but that scum might try and say that Drew+marci are scum together.
They had to backtrack out of this once they realized the potential implications from the Mailman message.
But it's also rather clear that they were first very willing to accept the Loyal modifier from marci. And then from the Mailman when the scumreads towards marci kept coming out.
It felt to me like their willingness to just outright accept and take any Loyal-actions claimed towards them at face value, was more likely coming from scum trying to get as much towncred as possible, rather than a townie who'd be at least a little sceptical about it.

So what is their story now that marci flipped UnLoyal? That there still actually is a hood, and marci just chose them to target for a what-gambit?
Or they think that scum!marci really believed they might get townbinned because town!Drew would've protected them?
I do not think town!Drew would've been the slot for scum to try and create WIFOM around.

[UnaBombaH]

Okay so what are the claims?

Thought you caught up?
If you did, you'd be claiming yourself already as you've been named as one of the first wanted to out their claim.
Also you'd know what Drew claimed already = they claim to be informed that there actually is a Traitor in the game.

[UnaBombaH]

Actually yes, if someone deserves a vote at this time, it probably is VOTE: Hu Tao

[UnaBombaH]

Oooooooooooooooooooo, spicy.
Assuming then that there is a paired claim to this?

[UnaBombaH]

Ah, Morning folks.
Town Mailman here - who was surprised.
No modifiers, no shenanigans here - I'm just able to troll someone every night.
UNVOTE:

[UnaBombaH]

N1 wrote a hilarious message to Drew with the sole idea of trying to bait reactions and start conversation around the slot.
That party-line was made btw just to make it look like it COULD be AI-generated as to keep my identity not obvious, but it was all by hand. Apparently Drew liked it enough.
N2 I sent my best paranoia-lines and moon logics to gera as I didn't feel comfortable risking anymore confusion or straight up misinformation regarding my role.
Which also leads to why I was annoyed by how D2 ended. I obviously would've loved to claim and clear my position before EoD. So that it could've happened before it affected reads/balance.
Guess we limmed scum anyway, so..

[UnaBombaH]

Ah, Morning folks.
Town Mailman here - who was surprised.
No modifiers, no shenanigans here - I'm just able to troll someone every night.
UNVOTE:

So you are saying that you can't deduce someones alignment?

You are harping on the wrong line here.
All of us can DEDUCE stuff here.
But you see, I DID make a mistake by accidentally using the word "confirm" at one point. That I literally can't do.

[UnaBombaH]

I've been trying to mainly have fun this game.
I guess it's "openly trust Boon" - time and actually focusing on reading ISOs.

[UnaBombaH]

I made a rather clear Traitor crumb D1 = thought scum might miss a N1 cop check, or I might get some reactions towards me to read.
Only FL noticed and called it out D2. No one else even followed that line far. FL was also able to call me out as the Mailman based on second hand information on word choices. That is why I included the aforementioned AI-line too, and why I couldn't message them directly for any fun shenanigans.
And D1 ended with Dann literally calling me out as town specifically. Like why? To get me killed N1 = they now claim this protection? Dunno. But maybe someone can see why I've been spending time doing funky stuff instead of just basic solving.

[UnaBombaH]

God dammit Una lol.

Your claim is legit.

Doesn't exactly clear you though.

Of course it doesn't.
We don't have anyone confirmed until we get another scumflip or one of the masons flipped.

[UnaBombaH]

How many? Is that even something to speculate?
Thought it was obviously either three groupscum or 2+1traitor?

[UnaBombaH]

I think the scum!Cop has to be either in the Vanilla claims, or FB with that disgusting Backup-claim.

[UnaBombaH]

Don't you think it would feel safer in a complex setup to claim something very outrageous or "nothing" when you have the one role that is literally earmarked to be scum?
So for what it's worth I think one of Bulge/FL/FB ought to be the Cop.
If I decide to trust FL for now, rereading Jackson from the early game might give me some new feels now.

[UnaBombaH]

Oooooooooooooooooooo, spicy.
Assuming then that there is a paired claim to this?

I'll be waiting for the apology post game

In my books, if there is not at least one scum in Hu Tao / marcistar / Flavor Leaf I feel like I need to apologize afterwards.
Don't see that being the case in here at all though.

Oh, but I already got my pound of flesh you see?
Or you forgot what marci flipped already?

[UnaBombaH]

I'm also glad to know that at least some of my D1 feels were correct.
But I'd be lying if I said that I had the slightest of hunches regarding HuTao+nono.

[UnaBombaH]

if both Dann and Hu are town, Una is scum like 80% of the time.

I'm Una, and I approve this message.
Like seriously starting to think this should be taken as gospel by everyone.

This supports scum!Dann or scum!HuTao+nono.
Still willing to put it this roughly FL?

[UnaBombaH]

Yeah, if dann and Hu Tao both are town, i don’t see how it’s not Una.

Drew/Una is a wacky pairing, possible, not likely.

Fire/Dann seems correct.

If we hit town today, we have to fade Hu Tao or Nono tomorrow, though.

^^seems about right to me.
Would like to add the obvious caveat from my PoV that IF it's not Dann or Hu Tao, it's likely just FL but you know..I honestly think its just one of these two + a partner.

[UnaBombaH]

"the complex nature of the game" doesn't make a neighbour any more likely to be town or scum

I'm kinda thinking there might be something pretty wild because if the scumteam is a cop, a neighbour, and a

traitor

. . . well

I honestly dislike this assumption and talk of traitors all over the place. Especially from jjh.
I know it would make more sense of the announced scum!cop, but since this is a complex setup I'm almost certain that a Traitor isn't a given.
I could come up with multiple reasons why not / alternative reasons for the Cop without it being a total red herring.

I'h at least hope we would stop talking about a Traitor as if it's confimed to exist.

@Una - can you say some of these multiple reasons for me?

I guess I can now say my two favorite ideas that the claims are out and no one can monkey around with it anymore.

For one - I came up with the idea of town!Deputy/backup Cop!
Would be an investigative role that you can't claim, and doesn't have any actual power before we flip the scum!Cop.
Thought it would be possible and interesting in a complex setup.

My second idea - the red herring one - is sort of still alive and would fit some scenarios that have already happened.
For example, IF we trust Drew and just accept that there is a Traitor + 1 group!scum remaining, then we also now know that the two remaining scummies had no way of communicating over night.
Unless it would be Drew+gera in their hood, but then we already have scum!Drew lying about the Traitor-information etc etc.

But assume for one more second that Drew is scum and lying here

- then they would've been able to talk a lot and prepare for the upcoming claims.
This also fits the fact that Drew literally claimed informed with the knowledge that a Traitor actually exists. Fits like a glove.
(in my overnight message to gera I actually called out ahead of time that if my red herring-theory is correct, scum would push hard for the KNOWN "FACT" that the is a Traitor = no night talk last night.

Third idea/angle in my mind D1 was to actually try and maybe pull something my way if scum actually would've interpreted me as their Traitor based on those posts I actually did multiple times D1.

[UnaBombaH]

All good fun.
I even had a fleeting moment of reading FL's use of the word "acute" as a potential modifier because to me it felt out of place.
Googled "acute" and for whatever reason it offers "desperate" as a similar word.

"A Desperate action fails when used on a player who would appear to a Cop as belonging to the same alignment as the user."
And desperate is a modifier that would fit this type of a setup with a scum!cop and potential Miller/Traitor in such a fantastic way

[UnaBombaH]

So yeah, somebody after this game should make a setup with a town!Desperate_investigative, a scum!Cop, a Miller and a Traitor.
I'd spectate that for a dollar.

[UnaBombaH]

Throw in a town!Deputy and some other form of Backup and watch the beautiful clusterfuck unfold.

[UnaBombaH]

I love the fact that I can just spew nonsense into the thread without interruption because everyone else is sleeping.
And then when I'm asleep the actual game happens and I get to catch up while drinking my morning coffee.
Rinse and repeat. But check with your doctor beforehand.

[UnaBombaH]

Good compilation ^^
Just to point out - not that I think it should be used to try and deduce anything

necessarily

but..

3 flipped VTs + 2 more claimed = 5/10 townies Vanilla.
That combined with a very simple and non-powered Mailman + a backup + non-powered neighbour would mean 8/10 townies with very little to no power?

This obv. when starting with the assumption that scum is within Masons/babysitter/informed+investigative.

So maybe going the other way around?
3 flipped VTs + (assumedly) Masons would be 5/10 townie-spots taken.
Drews role + babysitter would give town at least SOME power and actions to actually take, and taking us to 8/10 spots taken with me included.
(..and I'm obviously including myself as town here although not confirmed to the rest of you)
Leaving 2 scum to be within a backup Mailman, a Neighbor and 2 claimed VTs.

Somehow this scenario just feels more likely to me when the setup is known to be COMPLEX? Right?

[UnaBombaH]

gera being "only a Neighbor" in a hood with a slot that claims to be informed+2 actions sounds somehow "unfair" and goofy to me now btw.
Also leading me to believe that one of them might just be scum.

[UnaBombaH]

I am not a bad scum player, or a bad teammate, and the way I discredited marci for softclaiming ~something + constantly mocking the odds of them being able to clear themselves by D2 would've been very shitty from a scum!teammate.
Especially since I wouldn't have been able to discuss this with them before/realtime since we know there is no daytalk.
The only reason I didn't want them D1 after was because it's just "right" to give anyone claiming something like that a chance to prove it. Maybe try and force the scums hand with the NK if theres no roleblocking etc. But come D2 it was always them.

[UnaBombaH]

I can also see why town!Drew might have a personal reason to dislike my claim/action because they were a target of it, but I also think calling it scum is silly.

1) I clearly tried/wanted to use that action for something and got annoyed when Drew avoided engaging in the interactions and the day ended with the gambit/claim unresolved

2) I would've, for no actual reason, muddied the interaction between Drew and marci with the later wanting to do ~something with their claim/role.
Again, being a very sucky teammate.

3) I am willing to go through my whole logic with the message if need be, but it was literally worded and formatted with the idea of forcing scum!Drew into a situation where they'd need to ALONE decide whether to admit to getting the message or not. If I was a town!Unloyal_Mailman they'd be basically scum-claiming. That is also why I legit TRIED to get them to talk about the scenarios, to see if they had spent any time thinking about the potential variations before hand.. And IMO they clearly hadn't.

[UnaBombaH]

I would've potentially "cleared" Drew in my head already if it wasn't for the fact that marci literally flipped unloyal scum.
Explaining why scum!Drew might've defaulted to not even considering a town!Disloyal role. (compared it to winning in lottery?)

[UnaBombaH]

The things that scumping me the most atm are the way our Masons claimed, Firebringer trying to push for scum!Una, and Drews claimed role being "all over the place" with a little of everything. Plus Drew now agreeing with FB.

[UnaBombaH]

I knew going into setup spec was a mistake, but did it anyway.

[UnaBombaH]

I mean, Drew might've just claimed close to their scumrole? Maybe informed that there are masons?

[UnaBombaH]

This is gonna require me getting out of bed, on to computer. Meaning.. COFFEEEE first

[UnaBombaH]

Drew just takes my actions as discrediting and attacking. When I'm actually trying to discuss and solve their alignment.
Also, I agree I ended up muddying the interactions a bit when it turned out that marci either targeted or gambitted with Drew on the same night, but my honest intentions were to solve around your slot based on dayplay and reactions anyway. Meaning that I was willing to claim no modifiers D2 already, but it ended way too soon for me.

[UnaBombaH]

And yes. I'm getting out of bed at 6.05 on a saturday just to be able to quote separate parts better to answer Drew.

[UnaBombaH]

Riddle me this

Why does a Traitor Finder need to be Informed that there is a Traitor in the game?

Fking YATZY

[UnaBombaH]

Tbh, when I saw my role, I was expecting multiple Mailmen of both alignments, fruit being vendored all over the place with sticky blocker fruits and smelly tracker fruits and a town!MillerMayor with an InformedTraitorDoctor and..

[UnaBombaH]

Drew, I intend to make a longer post at you, but tbh.. I got a comfortable, cozy position here and got lazy.

[UnaBombaH]

Fell back to sleep, and now it's too late to sit on front of the computer. Sorry.
I'll be properly back in 24-36 hours, maybe check in with phone if the Halloween party im going to is boring me.

[UnaBombaH]

Someone look over how masons claimed i don’t feel like doing it

I’m about to give up tbh

Don't give up. If I wasn't tired and hungover I'd be here participating, but the hot witches and the like took me down a path of bad decisions yesterday..

[UnaBombaH]

The paranoid logic is still there in the back of my mind with a Dann-FL team. Other than that, I'm not sure if Dann-scum fits my reads.
They also seemed to pretty much call out/bait scum towards their protective shot on me EoD1, and that is also what they claimed to have done.

[UnaBombaH]

So still three potential scenarios.
None of which help to solve/dissolve the other unless we hiton scum today.
I think we are in a decent spot having landed scum D2 obv. but we have too much to flip from the claims and the idea of limming a mason just to solve them irks me.

[UnaBombaH]

Heh hiton = ~damned in finnish
Thanks autocorrect.
But yea. Hit one scum we must to solve the game yes rally but but good race but

[UnaBombaH]

I promise to do something worth while tomorrow. I really do

[UnaBombaH]

like out of the non masons, Dann and I are the least likely to be paired with marci on an objective level.

Which is why I said that I can see scum!Dann only with FL.
I think it would require you as a teammate for some of the crazier distancing to have happened.

[UnaBombaH]

Also Flavor, as and aside, if you have issues with my role and how it pertains to the setup of the game, I am sure Ali is all ears post game lol.

I dislike this comment on a personal level. It might sound like I am / some of us are criticizing the setup during the game, but I always admit in the end that I have no expertice in the matter. It's all just speculating and hot air based on personal likes/dislikes, own perspective on whats "balanced" and most of all NOT HAVING ALL THE INFORMATION until the game is finished.
There's a reason why this site has a wiki and stuff like "normal games" defined and outlined. If I personally sometimes disagree with balance or the setup making sense, it's always me in the end admitting that I just don't know.

So yeah. I'm always willing and interested in discussing balance, but I'd never want the mods to think that I'm criticizing or bashing their setup.

[UnaBombaH]

I can see town!FL being frustrated here, even if I think it isn't necessary. Anyway x10 is something.

[UnaBombaH]

Oh I am very calm here.
And I'd still argue, at least for now, that your claimed role feels "overstacked" in a way that is still not overpowered because of some almost redundant mechanics/info clumped together.

[UnaBombaH]

I also think that even the name of the setup announcing information about the setup is something that affects balance/reads.
And while I have no doubt that Ali & co. have taken that into consideration when making all of this, I still feel like some of the players simply refused to consider the idea of scum not having a Traitor.
From your PoV it's logical why you wouldn't have, but it doesn't explain why some of the others were so unwilling to.

[UnaBombaH]

But I'm done talking about setup for this IRL day now anyway.
I'm going to at least try and find some time after work to go read some ISO stuff.
Do it the old fashioned way of actually reading.

[UnaBombaH]

VOTE: nono
I'm just bored.

The time difference really wasn't this big of a deal some years ago, and even over night very little happens.

[UnaBombaH]

I tried reading some separate ISOs but there's very little interaction from some slots.
And then the rest are either hiding behind claims or other players.

[UnaBombaH]

UNVOTE:
Useful to see geras and FBs stance on that.

[UnaBombaH]

I disagree on the latter part. I think town!FL and scum!FL have very little actual difference when it comes to decision making on situations like this.
Whatever might take them over the finish line as a winner.

[UnaBombaH]

The thing that bugged me the most was the way FL was talking about your supposed optimal protections. FL is never the optimal protection here night 3, and them trying to "direct traffic" after just sounded like them trying to get two kills next night.

[UnaBombaH]

I still want una elimmed and think his jump on nono is scummy even saying ohh im bored so im cool with it.

It was either town!FL doing ~something, or scum!FL trying to push for Masons.
Either way I wanted to join that until I saw how you and gera would react.

To me there's pretty much only two actual townbinned players for now and that's you two.

[UnaBombaH]

I still want una elimmed and think his jump on nono is scummy even saying ohh im bored so im cool with it.

I'd love to hear more about una

I just feel una has been like transparently obvious town this game and while I don't love the hop on nono it's not exactly the most damning thing to me

I've been asking for interactions and even tried to put myself to a spot to be pushed D1 and got almost nothing.
I'm still not sure whether it has been the time difference, or if this playerlist has just been active very sporadically.
It seems this morning is a little different at least.

[UnaBombaH]

idk. hu tao on FB doesnt feel like a scum move there.

Not sure myself. I've been trying to revisit D1 and wonder why I scumread Hu Tao so clearly.
And I realize that it was a wholly different experience to
jump on them after a reaction I read as scummy --> gaining some form of conf.bias in little doses throughout the day
vs
now reading it + knowing their claim with nono + knowing what jjhthjtrh flipped and when..

I can still see scum!HuTao easily, but yet again I feel like limming Masons at this game state is just objectively wrong. Maybe.

scum arent doing shit this game. maybe dann/bulge is like the right solve because of that.

Not absolutely sure about this either. Hard to differentiate moon logic from actual logic this game.
I feel like my time away from this form on Mafia is actually hurting me here - I can see so many scenarios that my brain is definitely functioning, but I completely lack certainty and conviction when it comes to deciding which way to push right now.

[UnaBombaH]

Titus replaces The Bulge

Oh my......

[UnaBombaH]

Una is essentially confirmed Mailman unless Una/Drew did something wild.

Gera also confirms that I am indeed Mailman. So no questions there.
Obv. can't confirm alignment though, but I am 100% confirmed Mailman.

[UnaBombaH]

Crackpot theory to here

Dann and FL team

Hey hey hey, that has been MY crackpot theory so far!

[UnaBombaH]

Well, do you townread Dannfloor?

My VCA suggests that marcistar was offered as an alternative to Dannfloor because marcistar role clears people.

PLUS something you def. don't know yet, but FL clearly activated a lot more once Dann was getting under fire in a situation where marci had already made their ~claim D1.
I called that out, and it lead me down the potential FL+Dann theory even before marci flipped scum.
I've just been sidetracked by competing scenarios the whole game.

[UnaBombaH]

Una i havent looked in too much today, but they also have been playing so weird if scum, and we dont think Una Mailman targets Drew the same night Marcistar does and then have the Marci and Drew have that much confusion over the Mailman message. Just was kinda weird play if scum, so Una probs town.

I know this is stupid to maybe even say, but if anyone knows my play and considers me at any level above "Horrible", they should just use this to clear me as town.
I would never do that as a teammate to Drew+marci, and NEVER risk that confusion as Traitor either.
But yea, not gonna assume anyone other than Boon would know/say this here.

[UnaBombaH]

Firebringer and Drew's claims are the absolute worst ones.

And again, this I do agree with. Not taking into account the setup at all, just those roles in on themselves feel awful to me.
Maybe with the sideflavor of gera being neighbours with Drew and ONLY being a neighbour.
Backup Mailman is just silly to me if FB doesn't have any modifiers either.

[UnaBombaH]

is this the day we all do fake pushes

Somehow something this simple just got a hearty laugh out of me.

i tried for ages to get scum to come after me

they wont.

maybe im just scum who forgot my role pm

I honestly TRIED this D1.
And what I got was an ALMOST universal townread instead.
Weird game.

[UnaBombaH]

id be open to fading a mason, if they flip town, Dann confirm Loyal Babysits one of them, then if scum want to kill mason, they have to kill Dann, and if we end up with all of them, we end up in like 6p elo, right? hmm.

No, you see this is why I think it's objectively false to limm a Mason today.
The whole babysitter-angle makes it way too dangerous imo, and if we end up in MyLo/LyLo tomorrow it benefits scum WAY more.

[UnaBombaH]

What if scum had a TraitorCop and something like a Gunsmith in group!scum?
Wouldn't that actually work setup wise since that'd still fit with the premise and give group!scum a way to find their Traitor?

[UnaBombaH]

(and in case anyone thinks I'm serious here^^, don't worry. Only like 0,1% serious.)

[UnaBombaH]

I don't think scum know who the traitor is and so have to shoot carefully.

Assuming that there's a Traitor+group!scum remaining:
They can't shoot Drew if town, because that'd remove a lot of WIFOM from the game.
They can't shoot either of the Masons if town, because that'd clear the other.
They'll just keep me and FL alive 100% since FL could be a Traitor tbh, and I could be painted as one.
So assuming the Traitor is real, they'd need to be careful within the remaining pool of Titus, Firebringer, gera....OR..

..they'll likely just shoot Dann every time here.
Dann is only ever groupscum with that claimed role and those claimed actions.. or just a town!PR obviously.
So Dann should just WIFOM whether they are going to holster or protect one in Titus/FB/gera, and scum would either have to shoot a slot that probably helps town PoE or risk missing a kill/confirming Dann.

Or am I missing something?

[UnaBombaH]

All of this has lead me to think that while my read on Drew has started to lean town more as the days go by, flipping them might give us the most useful info?
We'd be 100% certain there's a Traitor remaining, we'd have their results confirmed, and we'd get a solid peek at what the setup looks like really.

Thoughts?

[UnaBombaH]

I know, I know.
It is very lazy of me to suggest.

[UnaBombaH]

una falling lower every day( think he’s taking advantage of town traitors

It does not matter to me "how low" you rank me, unless you come up with a reasonable solution where I am in your "bottom 2 with someone". Right?
Time for tiered readlists is more or less over for me, considering the amount of players who can be/are likely just paired together.

[UnaBombaH]

if so, then why are you still in “flipping for info” stage, or replying to me?

That question makes no sense to me..? I'm in a "flipping for info -stage" because I am trying to find a duo of scum instead of tiering people separately.
And I think locking in the knowledge of whether Drews results can be trusted + knowing whether there's a Traitor or potentially two group!scum still remaining makes a huge difference when trying to read associations.
If it's one Traitor + group!scum, the remaining scumster might even still be uncertain who their Traitor actually is.

And I'm replying to you, because whether you are scum or town, I think you should be interacted with. Just like everyone else.

[UnaBombaH]

Pfft, it took someone this long to try and take this stance?
I am never group!scum this game, considering my stance on marcis claim and my mailman interaction with Drew / indirectly marci(s claimed action).
So you are at best calling me a Traitor, but even then I would've known marci is my teammate (even if marci would've been unaware of my alignment), and I just would not go after their claim the way I did.

[UnaBombaH]

I also clearly tried to do ~something D2 with my gambit-y and fun loving message to Drew, but before I was allowed to clear my stance and claim, the day was already over.
You could go ahead and TRY saying that I was trying to divert the D2 elimm from marci with that, but if you actually go and read what I wrote to Drew / about Drew, it should be rather clear that I had a goal of solving their slot. Even if they took it as a direct attack or me trying to discredit them. My stance was "suspicious but neutral".

[UnaBombaH]

mailman + backup mailman claim are like

probably almost never aligned right?

I also find this to be way more silly than most of the other setup-stances taken so far.
In a clusterfuck like this, it's literally either way, and/or whatever how the Mailmen are aligned.
Trying to say it's more AI to have two Mailmen in the same team, rather than having a T-T hood between a straight forward Neighbor and "whatever Drew claimed"-neighbor..

[UnaBombaH]

or at least not scum together

..however this I kind of agree with. Would be rather silly to have two scum!Mailmen, with the other one also being a Cop at the same time?

[UnaBombaH]

loyal babysitter

protected una night 1 and drew last night

Wait, it literally just got through to me.
Dann claimed LOYAL babysitter.

[UnaBombaH]

I just remember something that I initially read as scummy, and now I'm trying to see if it actually even could be.

Backup Mailman and Loyal Babysitter, Ill go into setup a bit more, but Loyal Babysitter is an odd man out for sure, HOWEVER, it does have decent synergy in a setup with the Masons because it punishes a Babysitter sitting on a Mason. I am seeing this role as possible town.

..and then FL "directing" Danns protection:

I think Dann babysits me tonight, so that way, if I am ever to die, they have to kill Dann too.

Obviously they have since changed their ideas about who Dann should target and why, I guess, but assuming scum!FL and scum!Dann this idea for a LOYAL babysitters action doesn't make sense, right?

[UnaBombaH]

town!Loyal Babysitter tries to protect scum!FL --> Dann dies = no on else dies because the protective action fails..right?
So scum!FL wouldn't be putting themself into harms way anyway, but they would still direct attention towards themself if only Dann dies at night?
Their later posts regarding night action planning has been more geared towards trying to bait scum to kill Dann, I think?
Which would require the mason flips?

NEVER babysit one of the masons.

If one of the masons die by night kill that is a good thing

---->

If Nono flips town, Dannflor Babysits Hu Tao. This makes it so Dann has to die for them to get rid of confirmed town Hu Tao in that case.

[UnaBombaH]

una who is scum gun to head right now

Don't wanna go there and give you one. I'm too split on FL's alignment.
If they are indeed scum here, it's with one of Drew/Dann/FB (new paranoia-sting).

Drew is here because of their claim.
It's literally something that FL would love to fakeclaim or theorycraft, so "complicated" and weird to me.
But at the same time something that is totally believable.

However, I've started to lean town on Drew based on their claim most of all, but that is just because I do not see enough roles to make the game very "complex" without it.

The justifications on why you are here is mainly something along the lines of "gutread on how and why FLs activity spiked D1" when it came to defending you.
I can def. see scum!FL trying their damnest to try and save scum!Dann so openly, and then still just bussing marci D2 with the way they claimed and "open wolfed".
(I'm almost 100% certain it was a clean buss that was agreed upon in the scum PT, with the SLIGHT caveat that if marcis claimed action towards Drew worked, they might ease back for a day or two.)

So yes, I can see scum!FL openly defending scum!Dann D1 and hard bussing marci D2 at the same time. Especially with how marci described the situation in their personal life etc.

I thought fb was more or less obv.town here, until I got back on my moon logic train of scum!FL.
Read their interactions from the perspective that fb subbed into a slot that was scum with FL, and their banter and FL OPENLY clearing fb the whole game comes to a new light.

Not my favorite theory, but I can see that now too.

[UnaBombaH]

I'm thinking that my initial declaration of feeling the need to apologize if not even one scum in marci/FL/Hu Tao might've actually hit 2/3.

[UnaBombaH]

OK, trying hard to wrap my thoughts into two scenarios for now:

If it's the masons actually being scum with Hu Tao + nono, it makes sense that nono is the traitor? (because Drew = town --> we have a Traitor in the game)
The way Hu Tao claimed Mason was to make sure that their still missing Traitor would actually claim their counterpart, because they'd actually know who they are..right? (Someone like fb might've even retreated from their claim, saying it was a joke.)
Nono dug up the posts they claimed to be references to their Masonhood --> could just as well be a Traitor trying to bond/whistle at their teammates?
I don't think it could be the other way around?
Dunno.
I still think theory is very possible considering that we would've literally ran up two scum in the order of marci --> Hu Tao, and I DID stay on them for a very long time because they had pinged me the most throughout D1. I just couldn't read D1 the same way with the information that marci was actually scum, and Drew having claimed there is a Traitor.
So to me this theory actually hinges on whether you believe their interactions earlier being aligned and informed?
FL claimed to have seen that earlier, and called it scum before the mason claim. So I guess there was something to actually see?

[UnaBombaH]

The second scenario has FL as scum.
Plain and simple.
I do not see a team of like Dann+Drew at all possible.
One of them, either one in separate worlds, could be FL's teammate however.
I can also see both Dann and Drew being town, meaning that the Traitor exists, and meaning that FL would most likely be the Traitor in this scenario. (this also fits with Dann = scum, obviously not with Drew=scum)

town!gera could also confirm that I mentioned in my message to them that I still think that there might not be a Traitor even, and that the scum would certainly make an effort D3 to hammer home the narrative of a Traitor because of marci flipping. (=scum wouldn't have been able to communicate last night --> there "ought to be" a lack of cohesion between them today)
And this brings me back to how Drews claim fits scum!FL as a teammate and literally fits like a glove with what has happened today.

[UnaBombaH]

I literally do not care

I am town

It's a shame if you literally do not care.
I get it that you might be frustrated, but I'd hope you still cared about the outcome.

[UnaBombaH]

Traitor!FL COULD BE aligned with scum!fb, and in an AWFUL WORLD with Titus (former Bulge) even.
That is supported by how FL dealt with the now flipped scum in marci, and how they called out The Bulge.
They might also now feel the pressure of trying to make themselves "obv.scum" to Titus with the hopes of the two of them finding each other and aligning.

[UnaBombaH]

I’m also obv town, so learn a lesson anyone who thinks I’m scum here

You are always obv. town when you are scum.
It's literally almost impossible to tell the difference between your scumgame and towngame.

[UnaBombaH]

Marci does not die on my watch as scum

Again, I disagree.
But not because scum!you couldn't help them - I just think that they might not have wanted to go through an actual struggle and rather go out easily if their claimed action didn't go to distance and people just gave up easily.

[UnaBombaH]

It’s just Dann + Marci + FL is the lazy solve that’s incorrect.

It is not lazy, it actually makes sense a lot to me.
Yet I am the only one(?) pushing for it.
Which actually keeps taking me back to the idea that it must be correct.

[UnaBombaH]

It was not going to happen without me

I wouldn't have backed away from them either.
Marci was always going to be my D2 flip with that claim, and I said as much D1.
I just would've wanted to try and pressure Drew before that D2, to maybe help with the solve.

[UnaBombaH]

I still think that I wouldn't be this paranoid and split on my decisions if D2 would've lasted longer, and Drew would've been more willing to discuss their position and the whole loyal/unloyal -thing.

[UnaBombaH]

You had no choice, you had to fight me

I have no trouble opposing you if we disagree on things.
I always respect you as one of the best players on this site (easily imo), but I'm only "afraid" of you in the paranoid sense of things.

And you actively stalled it

Stalled it?!?
Stalled =//= blocked / tried to block/ derail etc. and you know it.
You are either scum or blinded by some weird ego/frustration thing here.

Voting for me and now trying to "flex" by flipping me on a whim just proves a point here.

[UnaBombaH]

Like this is literally either scum!FL or immensely frustrated/given up town!FL.

[UnaBombaH]

@anyone willing to listen - if you flip me today you are literally required to flip FL tomorrow.
Meaning that the scum POTENTIALLY get two free limms if FL is just frustrated/ego tripping town here.
I'm telling all of you who might not have played with FL before - they KNOW I am town here regardless of their own alignment.
They have a near perfect track record of reading me, and the one time I managed to win a scum game against them, it was literally because we shot FL the night before they would've turned on me/outed me.
That's a fact.

[UnaBombaH]

The gamestate the past week couldn’t possibly give us any hints

Again, if you are scum it is explained perfectly.
You'd be able to grind it to a halt just as well as you are able to get it going.
I guess you could be bored as well.

[UnaBombaH]

I'm just not experienced enough to have any say on whether this setup is even NEARLY complex without Dann/Drew.
I'm seriously just starting to think it has to be fb or bulge.
I would've thought Bulge+Hu Tao makes some sense to me before the Mason-claim, but didn't think FL + Bulge makes sense.

[UnaBombaH]

I spent all day pushing you as town.

Because I am town. And you know it.
The same logic you used earlier applies to theoretical scum!Una 100% here.
If I was scum, I'd be making this way way way too hard for myself.

[UnaBombaH]

Scum!Una would've either shot FL last night, or would've sheeped FL today and shot them tonight.
I would've followed you into a Hu Tao flip today, EASIEST thing in the world considering how I stayed on them ALONE for most of D1.
I would have no issue getting a flip there, then shooting FL tonight.
conf.town Nono is NO THREAT to scum at this point of the game, because they only need to eliminate one of the WIFOM-slots tomorrow anyway.

[UnaBombaH]

You wanna know what outed you as lying scum here Una?

“ If Unah’s scum, consider me a random $20 on the ground, cuz I am pocketed."
-Flavor Leaf to scum!Una

Proving that I have gotten pocketed from ScumUna, and incorrectly read.

I also town read you the entire game that I ended up vigging you on.

FALSE. And I can go and get the proof if people are actually at all interested in what we spew here!

How can I be so sure? Because when I was BORED earlier during this game, I went and reread some old games.

I went ahead and read an entire old game while bored.

You literally say in the dead thread of that game IMMEDIATELY when you get there, that you would've turned on me the next day had we not shot you.

[UnaBombaH]

No wait, it was a different game?
Well, one of the games I reread.

[UnaBombaH]

My bad, false information above.

I think I ought to be allowed to share a direct link to a dead thread post from years gone?
viewtopic.php?p=10503180#p10503180

[UnaBombaH]

I am CERTAIN there was another game where we shot you earlier and you blasted me as obv.scum in the dead thread.
I actually read multiple old games that I had played with you, trying to find some similarities in your play between here and there.

[UnaBombaH]

Scum!Una would've either shot FL last night, or would've sheeped FL today and shot them tonight.
I would've followed you into a Hu Tao flip today, EASIEST thing in the world considering how I stayed on them ALONE for most of D1.
I would have no issue getting a flip there, then shooting FL tonight.
conf.town Nono is NO THREAT to scum at this point of the game, because they only need to eliminate one of the WIFOM-slots tomorrow anyway.

Whether I remember incorrectly or not, I stand by, behind and in front of this post no matter what.

[UnaBombaH]

Actually getting me limmed here might be just fine for town, as long as FL ACTUALLY FOLLOWS D4.
I've been very undecided and lost this game, so town won't be losing anything very potent as of now.

[UnaBombaH]

And I’ve gone through most of the other slots this day phase, it was your turn to see what happened with gamestate, and your reaction seems the scummiest

I think I'm just the only one who can still speculate whether your attack is coming from town or scum.
I can feel the frustration, but I'm not assuming it's AI to push me.

[UnaBombaH]

Well I’m town looking to end the day, so if you flip town I’ll be proven right the majority of this game

Also, what does this even mean?!?
You'll be proven right for the majority of the game? If at the crucial moment you 180 your read on me and limm me from a position where it makes zero sense?

[UnaBombaH]

And you really think getting town!Una flipped here is the fastest/best way to do it?

[UnaBombaH]

I honestly think flipping FL would be, not only faster but also better for town here. (my campaign speech needs honing)

[UnaBombaH]

no getting ScumUna flipped is the best way to do it

Again, you KNOW that is not happening.
Would you really be this nasty towards me if you are town here?

[UnaBombaH]

I'm going to have faith in the bond we at least used to have..you wouldn't try and ruin town!Unas first game back like this.
VOTE: Flavor Leaf

[UnaBombaH]

if and only if after i flip town, yall say 'the oh so mighty Flavor Leaf, the only Leaf that brings the Beef, powerdunked Marcistar.'

I'll even quote this to be able to use it word for word.

[UnaBombaH]

Your razor is very dull then.
No scum here.

[UnaBombaH]

The same scum!Una you are casing here is bold and cocksure in their scumplay.
That Una would've straight up messaged you N1 and taken this 1v1 sooner.
The actual scum!Una that COULD theoretically exist would've shot you and avoided this 1v1 altogether while you still had me hard townbinned.

[UnaBombaH]

I think you are disappointed in your teammates either way, right?
If you are town, you are disappointed in me pushing small blocks around and lacking conviction and most of town not posting much.
If you are scum, you are disappointed with how marci claimed/played their action, and potentially even your remaining teammate if you are Traitor here and they aren't reading your smoke signals?

[UnaBombaH]

Wait for someone to come in and call this T/T just like they did Una/Drew earlier.

[UnaBombaH]

That is btw one of the most effective ways of shutting down conversations and pushes in forum mafia.
"X vs Y is very clearly just TvT"

[UnaBombaH]

Una+Dann might be the most logical pairing here, yes.
Would also fit the fact that they claimed to have protected me N1 and also claimed Loyal, so there's a soft tie-in there as well?

[UnaBombaH]

So umm..while you are pushing for my imminent death we can talk, right?
You change your mind about the whole "Informed about a Traitor" -thing?

[UnaBombaH]

You've been pushing so many slots today that I honestly can't remember what your final stance was. No jab, just honestly can't figure that out.

[UnaBombaH]

Scum in masons?
Scum in Drew/titus?

I guess you still said that fb is obv.town to you?

[UnaBombaH]

I did.
I think I even immediately said it felt silly and redundant?

[UnaBombaH]

I even was the last one(?) to say that flipping Drew, if for nothing more than information, might be the most useful thing to do.

[UnaBombaH]

Got my integrity questioned by nono and titus.
Got voted by fb and Dann I think?
And that's at least 2 too many for scum I think?
So I stopped talking stuff like that. I think.

[UnaBombaH]

I think we have had one scum game together so far, right?
We definitely won that.
And with the amount of shit we can spew with at least one of us uninformed here, we'd definitely win a game like this as well.

[UnaBombaH]

Eh, I've got to go and sleep now.
If I'm dead within the next ~8 or so hours I won't be around to whine or retaliate.
Just know that if you flip me, you'll get Town Mailman and my messages went to Drew and gera.
No modifiers, so just me being a myself and rambling/trying a silly play to potentially help solve Drew D2 and spilling my best moon logics and theories to gera.

FL is either scum here, or so far gone into frustration/boredom that they aren't going to solve the game for town anyway = if you decide to flip me today they MUST BE THE NEXT TO GO.
They will likely actually fight against it D4 though, so we're going to need some cohesion here by then, OK?

[UnaBombaH]

There are worse things in this (game)world than dying.
Especially since there's a promised land of Dead PT awaiting..with Alisae, Ausuka, the worst and even RC potentially waiting! (holy shit the modlist+reviewers in this game is filled with some of my absolute favorites! )

[UnaBombaH]

And Boonsky, my old pal..I hope that we can reconcile afterwards too.
If you are actually town here, just remember that I'm rusty as fck boiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii........................

Good night!

[UnaBombaH]

Oh, the day is still going.
Are we going to get anyone other than me today?

[UnaBombaH]

I've been recording with my band today. Sorry for absence.
I thought FL would get their way and me limmed two days ago, so I pretty much let go of the day already.

[UnaBombaH]

I also voted for Flavor Leaf in #3052 and didn't unvote yet, I think.
UNVOTE: for now however, and within 24h when I get home, I'll decide where I'll land my vote for good.

[UnaBombaH]

Sometimes weekends are rough.

[UnaBombaH]

That, and the saturday was very draining by itself.
We worked on one song for more than 8h, and while it was very educational and fun, it was also at times very frustrating and felt like not much was happening.
But in the end we did get a lot done and people finally realized what it takes to record a song "clean". Even though the recording setup we had was still very basic and homemade.
So yesterday was all about recharging.

[UnaBombaH]

Can you vote Titus with us? I don’t think anyone has any real reasons for why they’re town here.

Honestly I don't have any reason for why Titus specifically is anything here.
They haven't been around for long enough.
I do admit still that the slot altogether has been difficult to read for me, and I wrote in my message to geraintm as much. Bulge wasn't an outright scumread of mine, but I didn't consider them town either.
I'm also still not over the fact that FL should just be scum here based on their earlier interaction with me (those three cursed pages )
But I'm just not honestly energized enough to continue there today, so I guess I'll have to compromise.

[UnaBombaH]

What I would love to see first though, is nono and Hu Tao committing to a shared read.
They are still split on two targets like scumsters trying to distance from each other, instead of trying to work together WHICH IS WHAT THEY SHOULD BE 100% DOING if they are indeed Masons together..right?

[UnaBombaH]

Talk in this game thread while you still can, we don't mind.
Me and FL already spammed for three pages and we do not share a PT, nor do we 100% certainly share an alignment.
Show us your work/ability to build a townlead wagon TOGETHER, and the rest of us can either follow or disregard that.

[UnaBombaH]

im not reading any more of your posts this game, Una. Sorry.

post game, if you're town, you need to reassess your paranoia problem.

if you're scum, you need to do more.

You are seriously overreacting.
Me outing my paranoia and debating my need to address my reads and vote somewhere else is not a queue for you to flip at me.
If anything it all just feeds into my insecurity, because it feels more like manipulation and AtE at this point.

I'm not looking to vote you today, I already said it.
And you saying that the only slots that are actually doing anything, are the ones following you or at least not questioning your alignment, is just silly.

[UnaBombaH]

I'd rather want nono flipped today, than Hu Tao, even though Hu Tao was the one I scumread D1.
Guess it shouldn't matter since they clearly share an alignment, but..

[UnaBombaH]

And that post doesn't make sense. If we were scum we would be trying to work together too. So..?

Of you were scum without a DAYTALK, and especially if one of you is the Traitor, you might be on different pages today.
It could be difficult to act like you are confirmed to each other if only one of you has been sure until this point, and you are already down marci + were pressure to claim something today.
So yea, it makes more sense to me, than the two of you splitting at this point of the game.

[UnaBombaH]

it's literally just me, Firebringer, and Drew doing anything this game.

Like this literally annoys the fck out of me.
These are the three that AGREE WITH YOU.
The ones that are willing to sheep you.
They aren't contributing objectively more based on post count, OR the contents of their posts. They just literally don't argue with you.

[UnaBombaH]

I'm sorry but it's really hard to find town this game since day 1. Maybe I'm not doing something right in reading.

Your scumreads start and end with firebringer/Dann, no?

[UnaBombaH]

Like if you are really a mason, and you have ONE locktown to build upon, you should be in a unique position to be able to have read interactions as an informed party?
And you should've been able to discuss things every night with nono anyway?
So how come you then have only 1/2 people you actively scumread and are willing to vote, but next say you find it difficult to find town this game?

[UnaBombaH]

OK, so you list FL there too.
What did you think about me and him throwing shit at each other for three pages?
You think it was TvT or SvS ever? Or you think it was all NAI somehow?

[UnaBombaH]

Also you haven't ruled out gera as scum, but you have ruled out Titus (Bulge)?

[UnaBombaH]

Ok, finally got what I wanted to see before D4.
I'm OK with going Dann here.
VOTE: Dann

[UnaBombaH]

If it's Titus>Dann while I'm asleep, I'd like for Dann to promise a target on FL.
And if shit really hits the fan over night, we just flip the masons and the game ends one way or another.

[UnaBombaH]

Also you haven't ruled out gera as scum, but you have ruled out Titus (Bulge)?

In your tunnel of me all day 1 did you even read me? I'm the one who tried to stop bulge from being voted out

It's like D1/D2 again.
Trying to ask a question, and you only read the surface level /react defensively.
YES, I've read your posts. YES, I know you tried to stop the Bulge-push. Hence to formatting of the question.
I was wondering why/how you were able to be so decisive about the Bulge being town, but can't put a townread on gera still. So your earlier statement about not finding town suggests that Bulge has been one of the most obv town slots in the game to you?

[UnaBombaH]

VOTE: Titus lets end it then.

[UnaBombaH]

Well what do you know.
Drews claim was bullshit.

[UnaBombaH]

I've been so lost and shitty this game, it's actually impressive

[UnaBombaH]

Well it DID make yesterday a lot harder to read, when you had a constant feeling that the claim was not true

[UnaBombaH]

Obv we handle the 1v1 today, and Dann honestly deserves another dose of shade because they promised to guard FL and didn't.

[UnaBombaH]

Also wtf, assuming Dann is town, and scum clearly wanted FL out.. Why not just shoot Dann?
So yea, guess it really is game over for scum

[UnaBombaH]

I agree, firebringer most likely did kill FL last night.

[UnaBombaH]

Oh, unless you just mean how I didn't fully claim lol.

I mean, you NOT fully claiming as town sort of does make sense here, yes.
Just meant that your claim yesterday was one of the biggest hurdles for me to get over, combined with what marcis claimed action was and how you yourself reacted to it.
Had you not claimed that Informed-part, I would've probably been less suspicious of you.

[UnaBombaH]

My whole D3 revolved around trying to get past:
Drews claim not feeling good/real to me
+ FL being overly frustrated/dramatic in a situation where I was mainly the only one poking at him (it REALLY threw me for a loop at a time where I was almost at peace )
+ Hu Tao being my original scumread and claiming Mason at the last possible time and nono coming in conveniently last to confirm.
= I never got to a place where I felt comfortable with any one direction.

[UnaBombaH]

Just did a check just to be sure, per the wiki on Complex Normal Games there can be no redirects.
So yea, it's just a 1v1 between firebringer and Drew.

[UnaBombaH]

Una....your paranoia was out of control this game and it was like the basis of your entire play.

Oh yeah, I fully admitted to playing very poorly.
I'm rusty as all hell, and lacked all conviction from my actions.
Nothing like my potential level of play.

[UnaBombaH]

Scum probably should have taken advantage of a possible Mason Hu Tao fade, killed Drew, bussed Dann if they had to, then open up Geraint/FL/Una.

Probably sow doubt between Una/FL further and get us to 1v1.

I mean, I'm not trying to criticize or flame anyone (specially since I played like shit myself), but one of the reasons why I kept returning to my FL- and Mason-paranoia was because it didn't feel like the scumteam had an objective or trajectory towards which they pushed.
Obv. after marci flipped there was the high likelyhood of a Traitor + groupscum without communication remaining, but still..The only ones who seemed to have a "gameplan" that could've been scumdriven and looking for opportunities were pretty much FL and the masons at the start of D3. Maybe Drew in a world where there was no Traitor.