Open 112: Gurgi EC8 - Game Over, before 725

[Lord Gurgi]

. . . .

[Lord Gurgi]

/

c

o

n

f

i

r

m

Scum.

Vote: Caboose

[Lord Gurgi]

Join.

[Lord Gurgi]

Vote: Caboose

.

UA: That sounds vaguely like the Roman Colliseum.

[Lord Gurgi]

OMGUS

Vote: Lord Gurgi

I told you. Bandwagon now.

[Lord Gurgi]

I now believe that Darox is Caboose's partner.

[Lord Gurgi]

JDodge: Why no random votes?

Kmd: Why violate your own scumtells?

[Lord Gurgi]

Kmd: Why violate your own scumtells?

For fun.

THERE IS NO ROOM FOR FUN IN THIS GAME.

[Lord Gurgi]

JDodge is clearly the most pro-town player here.

Unvote; Vote: Darox

. Lurking.

[Lord Gurgi]

Hypocop carries a problem. Basically, the scum can WIFOM us.

[Lord Gurgi]

Well, it's pretty radical, but I suggest we scumhunt.

[Lord Gurgi]

We lose following two mislynches. If scum catch the breadcrumbs and night kill the cop, and we go after the wrong person, we lose. The only real utility of the cop is for clearing townies.

[Lord Gurgi]

L-1 page two. That's a bit early for you.

Based upon what I've seen, JDodge is town.

I'm not sure what you mean by the second post, though.

I am quite sure that Darox is scum at this point.

[Lord Gurgi]

Based upon what I've seen, JDodge is town.

Do you always call JDodge town in the hopes he will lay off you?

JDodge doesn't take his teeth out at nice words.

Kmd refusing to admit a screw up is scummy. His fear of L-1 is also noted.

Caboose taking the easy vote is also scummy.

[Lord Gurgi]

Kmd refusing to admit a screw up is scummy. His fear of L-1 is also noted.

"My bad" isn't an admission? And show me where L-1 this early is a good thing.

Before JDodge specifically spelled out how wrong you were, you tried to pass it off as Caboose's fault. Even then, you weren't aware of how many votes it was to lynch. That is not helpful to town. L-1 got us out of the stupid stage. It is also revealing more to me about your alignment than I'll probably get in the next 5 pages. That is good.

Kmd refusing to admit a screw up is scummy. His fear of L-1 is also noted.

Gurgi calling Kmd down for non-scumtells is scummy.

How are these things not scummy? Fear of L-1 is not rational. It's not a lynch, and anyone that rushes to hammer is an idiot or scum, or both. You two seem to care more about me being at L-1 than I do.

Why are you defending Kmd?

Caboose taking the easy vote is also scummy.

...and putting someone at L-1 on p.2 isn't?

Perhaps you misunderstand the meaning of "easy". "Easy" is when you won't get any flak for doing something. Scum like to do these things because you can pass it off as scumhunting. Putting someone at L-1 on page two is not easy. As you have seen, people react violently to L-1.

[Lord Gurgi]

Kmd refusing to admit a screw up is scummy. His fear of L-1 is also noted.

Gurgi calling Kmd down for non-scumtells is scummy.

How are these things not scummy? Fear of L-1 is not rational. It's not a lynch, and anyone that rushes to hammer is an idiot or scum, or both. You two seem to care more about me being at L-1 than I do.

Why are you defending Kmd?

I don't think that Kmd is town, I just think that you're scummy.

I never asked that. Answer my questions.

Perhaps you misunderstand the meaning of "easy". "Easy" is when you won't get any flak for doing something. Scum like to do these things because you can pass it off as scumhunting. Putting someone at L-1 on page two is not easy. As you have seen, people react violently to L-1.

Crap logic.
So, because I don't get flak, that means I'm scum?

Let's go down the list:
Shanba, Flameaxe, and Porochaz all haven't gotten much of any flak from anyone for doing anything. Are they all scum too?

Strawman. You took an easy vote, that is a scummy action. Just because those lot haven't gotten flak doesn't mean they are scum. The point is that you are purposefully avoiding any flak and taking the easy action, not the correct one.

[Lord Gurgi]

My point was that people that don't get flak =/= scum.

While that is true, it is tangential to my point, and was argued to distract from my accusation. You took an easy path to avoid getting attacked for it.

That

is scummy. Stop trying to pass it off as bad logic or different logic.

[Lord Gurgi]

Prozac: What suspicions

do

you have?

[Lord Gurgi]

Perhaps you misunderstand the meaning of "easy". "Easy" is when you won't get any flak for doing something. Scum like to do these things because you can pass it off as scumhunting. Putting someone at L-1 on page two is not easy. As you have seen, people react violently to L-1.

Crap logic.
So, because I don't get flak, that means I'm scum?

Let's go down the list:
Shanba, Flameaxe, and Porochaz all haven't gotten much of any flak from anyone for doing anything. Are they all scum too?

Strawman. You took an easy vote, that is a scummy action. Just because those lot haven't gotten flak doesn't mean they are scum. The point is that you are purposefully avoiding any flak and taking the easy action, not the correct one.

Bullshit. Sometimes the most correct action is the easy action. Do you even seriously believe any of the words coming from your fingertips at this time?

Sometimes.

Do you even read what I say anymore? He shifted easily to you, because you voted me, not because you were necessarily scummy.

I never asked that. Answer my questions.

I wasn't defending Kmd, I said that you were calling Kmd down for non-scumtells, which is what I believe to be true. That has nothing to do with my view of Kmd, it has everything to do with my view of you.

Isn't that defending? Now I do believe this is Chainsaw, at this point.

[Lord Gurgi]

Why?

Also, I don't really care if you say you weren't defending him. I see a strong connection between the two of you.

Flameaxe: Can you not be you for a bit and comment on the past three pages?

[Lord Gurgi]

Also, I don't really care if you say you weren't defending him. I see a strong connection between the two of you.

Since when did saying "that's not a scumtell" become defense?

Because you didn't attack the validity of my statement, but whether or not it was a scumtell. That tells me you care less about my argument and more about Kmd's alignment.

Lol, JDodge.

[Lord Gurgi]

Let's just wagon me and get this over with.

[Lord Gurgi]

Bah, this is not working, half the game isn't even bothering to play.

[Lord Gurgi]

Out of curiosity, will you vote the next person for L-1 on page 4?

[Lord Gurgi]

Bah, this is not working, half the game isn't even bothering to play.

What's not working?

All this stuff I've been saying has supposed to be getting something out of the players, however, most everyone has been lurking. Thus, it is not working.

[Lord Gurgi]

And BBM.

Not all of it. I got a read on Kmd and you. JDodge all I have is meta, everyone else is lurking. I think I know the setup. Just a hunch, don't make anything of it.

Post 93 was not a joke. I do want to know specifically how long your scumtells apply.

[Lord Gurgi]

Is something other than the truth a better option?

[Lord Gurgi]

Yet you say that he was well reasoned now, even though he has not said anything further.

BBM is Flameaxe.

[Lord Gurgi]

Why don't Darox or Kmd have a vote out yet?

Lurking.

[Lord Gurgi]

Is something other than the truth a better option?

Im suprised that you would take the strategy of making yourself look bad for reactions then use the "its not easy its the truth" method. Maybe a good way for you to see other players reactions but probably not good when they start getting suspicous at you in the first place. Why am I telling you this, it seems like i would tell a newbie this.

[Lord Gurgi]

Also, I don't really care if you say you weren't defending him. I see a strong connection between the two of you.

Since when did saying "that's not a scumtell" become defense?

Because you didn't attack the validity of my statement, but whether or not it was a scumtell. That tells me you care less about my argument and more about Kmd's alignment.

Lol, JDodge.

Your statement was that it was a scumtell.

He attacked whether it was a scumtell, thus attacking the validity of the scumtell.

You take this opportunity to say "you didn't attack my validity" which is blatantly false.

Furthermore, it's perfectly reasonable for someone to care about someone's alignment - are you really calling him scum for being concerned about KMD's alignment? Because, if he were actually scum, he wouldn't need to be concerned about KMD's alignment. He'd already know it. The fact that you yourself didn't make this logical step is also telling.

There's a difference between "that is not a scumtell" and, "he didn't do that". If you have a better way of articulating the difference, please enlighten me, articulation is not my best area.

Second, you now full well what I meant. "He's not scummy" is different than, "he didn't do that". It's the difference between defending a person because you think the attacker is wrong and because the attacker is scum with you.

This is a fantastic lurk-battle, but I feel that Darox and Flameaxe are probably worse offenders. That said, Prozac, there are no survivors in this game, so stop playing like one.

[Lord Gurgi]

I had a big thing here about reads and whatnot, but I doubt anyone will listen, and it would probably just be taken as evidence against me. So instead I'm just going to vent at you for a bit.

If you numbnuts want to setup a hypocop, now's the time. I'm not going to.

JDodge: Please don't tell me you've lost grasp of the fact that the way in which someone says something bears greatly upon what the statement actually means. That's what I am seeing here. You also seem to have lost a grasp of when I am saying things in

earnest

. I am

not

good at articulating my thoughts. I asked you for an alternative way, and you call me smarmy. Get off your presumptuous high horse and realise that just because you're a cynical, self-loving, egotist, doesn't mean the rest of the world wants be just like you.

Darox: How do I defend beyond the truth? Can you take the hypothetical here that I

am

and

have been

doing this for reactions. How do I go about saying this? I was frustrated, and still am, because I feel like the only time people actually say anything, is when it's beaten out of them. In magnificent form, your first contribution to the game has been evidenced stacked up to support a preconceived conclusion. Try to come up with some original thought, you've had more than enough time to formulate it. Darox, I feel a massive difference between "Vote: X for L-1 because that's scummy" and "Vote: X for L-1". Maybe I'm along on this, but I think the way in which the "newbies" are saying things are being overlooked.

Porochaz: Your meta is horrible. JDodge's town meta is screaming at people until they do what he wants. JDodge's scum meta is arguing with people until they do what he wants. You figure out which one he's doing here. I've already decided. You infuriate me, because you come into the thread regularly just to show you're breathing.

We don't care

. Really. Either contribute beyond coming up with garbage meta, or get the heck out.

Flameaxe: Participate.

Participate

.

Participate

. I know it's how you play, but I really don't care right now. Much as I find it harder to be mean to you, because I know you're a nice guy, you're not helping anyone by being a passive-agressive do-nothing. OK, it's a joke vote, fine. Who do you suspect then? I prefer that you suspect me and we really have eight players than you suspect no one and we grapple along with seven.

I really do.

Caboose:

Is it bad or good already.

I can't decide if you flip position on JDodge's vote every other post because you're flippant scum, or if you're just plain flippant. I am annoyed by the buddy-deal you and Kmd seem to have. If neither of you are scum, I'm going to murder you in the night. Don't defend other people, especially if they haven't yet exhibited the ability to do so. It undermines what I'm trying to do. Unless I can determine their ability to reason with me screaming at them, I can't get anything out of them.

GAH!

Kmd4390: One liners and general statements are not scum hunting. They're not. I don't care how good you are. Even Glork needs a paragraph. There's something expected of people who are defended. Ignoring it is generally not a good sign. You seem content to just sit in the passenger seat of the game. Having a vote or some stated suspicion is tech. Because we can't catch any freaking scum unless you contribute too. Two or three people can't lynch scum. Five impassive players lynch town much more easily than scum.

Shanba: What the freak man? I expected more. I really did. I didn't expect you to be posting the least content in the game. I wish I could say more, but I don't have anything to talk about except your apparent fascination with JDodge's personal life.

Rant will probably continue tomorrow.

Unvote

Trying to decide which of you are idiots and which of you are scum, as those are the only options.

[Lord Gurgi]

Doing what Shanba said with the verbosity.

Hypocop carries a problem. Basically, the scum can WIFOM us.

I was worried that people, particularly Kmd and Caboose, had not been thinking very in depth about the risks associated with hypocop. While it does allow us inferences from the failed investigations of the weak cop, we could be left with a situation on day two, in which we have two or three dead cops. Ostensibly, one has falsely been killed by the scum. This would leave us in a bad position, because on one hand we lose the game, and on the other we get a scum. The problem of course being that both town and scum will argue the exact same case. I do not like playing the game on a coin flip. So, my suggestion is that we don't spend today worrying about the hypocop, at least not yet, and instead spend time scum hunting. If we hit the mark today, it gets infinitely easier from there. I think that people are too easily distracted by hypocop. That can of worms is already out, so there's no good reason for me not to discuss it now. If you guys think this is back-tracking on my part, as I can understand the attractions of such an accusation, it's not. There's no sense forcing the discussion out, as that will distract even further. I think that the best choice is to just discuss it and be done.

On that issue, I was thinking on how we could try to protect the town from incrimination, while simultaneously preventing the scum from WIFOMing us out. I am wondering what you think of a having players double up on targets. That way, if both die, we know the target is scum. Obviously, this reduces out chances of hitting scum, but absolutely nails them if we do hit scum. Ultimately, I think that this plan makes the scum gamble more than us. I'd appreciate thoughts on this plan, as, worse case scenario we clear townies.

We lose following two mislynches. If scum catch the breadcrumbs and night kill the cop, and we go after the wrong person, we lose. The only real utility of the cop is for clearing townies.

I was trying to impress the perils of following the cop. Trying to WIFOM the scum at their own game, is not going to give us a good chance of winning. Before I thought of the plan above, I wasn't willing to chance the WIFOM. All this is moot if we have no cops of course, but I got the feeling that Caboose wanted to play the game off massclaim day two. That idea does not appeal to me.

Based upon what I've seen, JDodge is town.

Do you always call JDodge town in the hopes he will lay off you?

JDodge doesn't take his teeth out at nice words.

Kmd refusing to admit a screw up is scummy. His fear of L-1 is also noted.

Caboose taking the easy vote is also scummy.

Meta. Quite unnecessary for me to explain this beyond what I have.

Prozac's accusation is just ridiculous. It shows quite clearly that he has no idea of JDodge's meta.

Kmd's post was not an admission that he was wrong for the right reasons. He admitted that he read Caboose's post wrong. He did not however give any reason for having no idea how many votes it is to lynch. I don't think there is any good reason for a townie to forget that. There's no particular reason for the scum to forget it either, but less disincentive to forget it. I think fear of L-1 is a thing to take note of. If anything, L-1 will catch overeager scum. Frankly, when I say these things, it is to make it clear and to throw it in their face if they violate these things later. A prime case being that Caboose is now switching, on a regular basis, his view of the JDodge vote.

Caboose taking the easy vote is also scummy.

...and putting someone at L-1 on p.2 isn't?

Perhaps you misunderstand the meaning of "easy". "Easy" is when you won't get any flak for doing something. Scum like to do these things because you can pass it off as scumhunting. Putting someone at L-1 on page two is not easy. As you have seen, people react violently to L-1.

Because some people react to L-1 makes it such that scum will not do it, except perhaps in the case of newbie scum. JDodge is not a newbie. I think that a person who casts an L-1 vote is more likely to be town, and a person that reacts to this by voting that person (and that being an L-2 to boot) is more likely to be scum. However, scum are more likely to take that opportunity to easily transition from the L-1 wagon to another, to use as brownie points later.

Kmd refusing to admit a screw up is scummy. His fear of L-1 is also noted.

Gurgi calling Kmd down for non-scumtells is scummy.

How are these things not scummy? Fear of L-1 is not rational. It's not a lynch, and anyone that rushes to hammer is an idiot or scum, or both. You two seem to care more about me being at L-1 than I do.

Why are you defending Kmd?

I don't think that Kmd is town, I just think that you're scummy.

I never asked that. Answer my questions.

The jump from defense to thinking Kmd is town is indicative of outside knowledge. In addition, I had to wait for two pages for an explanation. The answer was pretty luke-warm, and I’m not sure if the delay means anything.

Perhaps you misunderstand the meaning of "easy". "Easy" is when you won't get any flak for doing something. Scum like to do these things because you can pass it off as scumhunting. Putting someone at L-1 on page two is not easy. As you have seen, people react violently to L-1.

Crap logic.
So, because I don't get flak, that means I'm scum?

Let's go down the list:
Shanba, Flameaxe, and Porochaz all haven't gotten much of any flak from anyone for doing anything. Are they all scum too?

Strawman. You took an easy vote, that is a scummy action. Just because those lot haven't gotten flak doesn't mean they are scum. The point is that you are purposefully avoiding any flak and taking the easy action, not the correct one.

This really is a strawman. I was arguing that moves that are specifically easy are scummy. He took this to argue that anyone who has not done anything that stands out is scum. For me, this is like all oranges are fruit, but all fruit are not oranges. It

could

be unintentional, but I doubt it.

More to come later.

[Lord Gurgi]

Oh yes, let me know if you plan to lynch me whatever, so I can drop the defense and just go over my suspicions. I don't want to waste my time.

[Lord Gurgi]

I think you should go ahead with the suspicions because they will be more informative either way.

I agree with this. Just because you are defending yourself doesn't mean you can't scumhunt too.

My time is not unlimited. Read my post before telling me to do more, please.

[Lord Gurgi]

I guess I'm stuck with Shanba. <3 Shanba.

Anyway, suspects are Caboose/Darox or JDodge/Shanba.

I'm basically doubting my JDodge meta, at the moment, because he's actually arguing with me, not screaming at me.

Shanba is just off, to me.

Caboose is being scummy.

Darox is being scummy.

[Lord Gurgi]

Has anyone read Flameaxe in isolation?

Dude, you aren't too fantastic in isolation either. Besides, he's Flameaxe. What do you want?

[Lord Gurgi]

I agree with JDodge.

[Lord Gurgi]

Please tell me you don't really think it's ok for Flameaxe to kick back and watch...

What do you want to do? Forcibly change him? Either spit it out and say you want to policy lynch him, or shut up.

[Lord Gurgi]

Please tell me you don't really think it's ok for Flameaxe to kick back and watch...

What do you want to do? Forcibly change him? Either spit it out and say you want to policy lynch him, or shut up.

I don't want to policy lynch. I want him to speak up and give an opinion or two.

Shut up.

[Lord Gurgi]

Kmd, you're arguing that Flameaxe must be forced to talk, the two options are lynch him or shut up.

[Lord Gurgi]

I continue to agree with JDodge.

[Lord Gurgi]

Actually, Darox, I'm at 3 votes.

Scot: We've had this argument before, I don't want to explain why he is scum. Please just drop it this game, and don't lynch me for it again. You'd think people learn from their mistakes.

[Lord Gurgi]

Um, no.

[Lord Gurgi]

Is there a game going on or not? This whole argument has screwed my reads.

[Lord Gurgi]

Please for the love of god don't ever start any defence with "I know I'm town" ever again.

[Lord Gurgi]

It's just horrible. It's like straight up admitting that you have nothing to defend yourself with, but with less balls.

[Lord Gurgi]

But.. it doesn't help to make any arguments, that's the issue. Either admit you have nothing better or find something better.

[Lord Gurgi]

But.. it doesn't help to make any good arguments, that's the issue. Either admit you have nothing better or find something better.

Fine.

[Lord Gurgi]

Nah, it's

wisdom

.

[Lord Gurgi]

I guess I'm dead then. :/

[Lord Gurgi]

Vote: JDodge

. Any lynch but mine, and he's the highest on my suspicions with a vote.

[Lord Gurgi]

All hail the great JDodge

I got both scum before massclaim after I died. So Gurgi > JDodge