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[help im a bug]

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vote: warpdragon

Hmm... either really lucky multiple docs, a lucky doc and all the killing groups targeted the same person, or one killing group and a lucky doc.

Or I suppose the killers might have decided not to kill tonight, just to trick us. Somehow I doubt that one.

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unvote, vote: Fuldu

for both casting suspicion on Phoebus and following his vote in the same post.

(oh yeah, and to return the second vote favor)

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Simulpost!

That's rather interesting Shadow! Maybe you *do* know.
I'm almos tempted to vote for her now. But I wanna stay clear of the broom...

And oh bug...you're returning the second vote favour to the extent of giving Fuldu a second vote? Just OMGUS? Practice what you preach. No?

Returning the favor does indeed mean doing what has been done to me. I don't see where you're getting anything hypocritical from what I'm saying: I'm all for putting multiple votes on people early. It gets reactions from people and makes the game go faster.

Honestly, Phoebus, when I look at what you've posted, all I see is someone who would prefer to lynch a newbie than one of his friends, so you put a random vote on me early and are now trying to back it up by misinterpreting my words.

Seriously, did you really need to double-post to say that I'm "digging and digging and digging a hole" with my, what, two posts at that point, and to accuse me of nonexistent hypocrisy? You're either intentionally misinterpreting my words or lazy, neither of which is a particularly welcome townie attribute.

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So, in your own words, what am I?

A townie (and I have no idea if you have any abilities or not) looking for an easy lynch of a newbie. That's how you're being lazy.

That's also why I'm not voting for you; I really don't think you're scum. I do, however, find it amusing that the best you can do is hint at nebulous "something else"s and subliminal messages.

So, my recommendation to you is that you apply your

subtle

hinting tactics on someone else, who might actually be scum. If you want to pile people on me and force a role claim, however, I'm fine with that as well.

[help im a bug]

No, not in a completed game (or one where I've died) on mafiascum. And is there some stigma against keeping stats updated? I figured it would just be a way for my sig to be nominally useful to myself, at least. I had considered having a sig quote of Phoebus saying "a bug you may be, but infinitely wise you are," but decided against it.

I don't see what my sig has to do with what you quoted, anyhow. Yours, on the other hand, has gotten a certain song stuck in my head now. Which, I suppose, I don't mind too much

[help im a bug]

Frankly, I'm inclined to call you lazy for being so smug and/or laid back about letting a bandwagon build up and subsequently role claim. Why don't you try and find scum if you're not it?

"Laid back"? I'm sure there's lots of adjectival phrases that would describe my posting history accurately, but I really didn't expect that one. I'm really not quite sure how you got there from saying I'm "on a tin roof."

But, if I am now appearing too "laid back" about letting votes pile up, isn't that how things work around here? You bandwagon someone day one, and then if they don't claim, you lynch them, and if they do claim, you decide whether you believe them? I'd prefer it not be me, but I can accept it.

And I

am

trying to find scum. I tested to see if Fuldu was scum, and his defense was neither here nor there for me, so I didn't change my vote. Then I prodded you to see if you were scum, and all I got was affronted superiority, which I don't really think is a likely scum attitude. But, if that's not good enough for your tastes, how about this:

Let's take a look at SapphireVerde's posts.

1st post: Random vote
2nd post: A comment that has nothing to do with the game
3rd post (my personal favorite): "pheobus has a point there. it is a scummy act.": an attempt to spur the bandwagon on me without actually voting or even saying anything at all. What particular "scummy act" of mine (I assume) she's referring to, nobody knows.

What I see here is someone who is attempting both to post enough not to be considered a lurker but also to avoid actually saying anything that might attract attention. Hmm. I originally planned this post as a diversion, but the more I look at her posts, the more I am convinced of her scumminess.

unvote, vote: SapphireVerde

PS - When you say the SK isn't technically scum, is that true? I'd thought scum were everyone who was anti-town, but if I'm wrong, I don't mind my beliefs being corrected.

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i would say its my "job" to get the facts straight

Is that a cop claim?

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Why on earth would you claim cop and not reveal what your investigations were? Even if you're insane/paranoid/random, it's still information, and information helps the town.

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But don't you think that we have essentially a "free day" to handle someone who acts scummy, rather than fingered scummy?

Evidence against bug is empirical. That against the guilty parties is not terribly so (yet)
So I still say, we squash bug and deal with cop thingamajigs tomorrow.

Evidence against me is empirical? All the evidence against me is entirely subjective, and it appears that you're the only one who sees it or cares about it. Please, what exactly have I done, other than "tick you off," that qualifies as evidence?

On the other hand, unless we have some truly terrible players, or multiple non-sane cops, at least

one

of SapphireVerde, LML, and Dmi is sure to be scum. This actually has evidence that you aren't fabricating behind it. Honestly, your insistence on going after me, your random vote, as opposed to someone we actually have

guilty cop results

on, is really silly-looking.

But, I've reflected, and I realize that I actually help the town more if I reveal some role information than if I don't. So, here goes.

I'm a coward. Each night, I can choose to hide in someone else's house. If they're scum, I die. If they're not, I can't be killed that night.

Assuming I live to the end of the day, I'll be hiding in Phoebus's house tonight. If I'm dead tomorrow morning, he's scum. Otherwise, he's not. Note that, unlike other cowardly roles I've seen, I don't die if the person I'm hiding with is murdered. Apparently I'm better at hiding in their house than in my own.

So, yeah, I'm basically an un-nightkillable cop who dies on a guilty result.

Also, I tend to believe Lee's claim more than SV's, at the moment, so

unvote, vote Dmi

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I told you who I was going to hide with in case I died. That way the town would know who was the scummy person I hid with, and would have a guaranteed scum to lynch.

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No one can prove my innocence? It's easy enough to do. We have multiple cop claims; surely one of them is willing.

Even better, perhaps: if we have a vig, please try to kill me tonight. If I'm lying, I'll die. If I'm not, I'll live.

Now, Phoebus, why I'm hiding with you: it's true, I didn't think you were scum. Now I do. Your insistence on ignoring cop claims, and attempt to divert attention away from Dmi, has pushed you up on my scumdar.

And, Nanook, I agree, it may be better to wait until tomorrow to decide whom we believe. We should let each of the cop claimants live another day. However, why shouldn't we lynch Dmi? He's lurking, and has a guilty cop claim against him. Lynching him will actually get us information about the cop situation, which would remain completely unilluminated if you lynch me.

A final statement: why would I have come forward with my role if I wasn't telling the truth? There were, what, two votes on me? One random from Fuldu, and one from Phoebus, who is apparently determined to prevent me from hiding with him tonight. I wonder why?

[help im a bug]

Ladies and gentlemen, have some Phoebus quotes, all from before my claim.

vote: help im a bug

If I weren't voting for bug, I'd vote you!

And the bug is digging and digging and digging a hole...

Well, the best I can do is play by my gut

I'm going by my gut

Or...we could just lynch bug

(When SapphireVerde's extremely believable cop claim was being discussed)

And bug? Any reason you should not be vigi-d?

I'd rather lynch bug over Lee

D1) Lynch bug and get scum (good chance, given his behaviour.)

How am I so sure about bug?
Gut. Only.

the possibilities dictate more to me that bug is a good lynch (call me obsessed)

Or preferably, [we could lynch] bug, from whom the spotlight has shifted

Lynch bug

I have since explained why I think it's a fair idea to go after bug. post after post with numbers and bullets and what not.

Evidence against bug is empirical.

I really like how the last two compare with all the ones about how it's only his gut instinct to lynch me. Yes, I will "call you obsessed." I will also call you inconsistent scum.

And finally, some more Phoebus quotes, with commentary.

You've been acting scummy throughout.

Says your gut. Or is it empirical data? Gosh, you just can't decide, can you?

You'd rather go after a potential innocent with a potentially insane cop than take a shot for the town.

And you'd rather go after a claimed pseudo-cop than a lurker with a guilty cop result!

Your role is too convenient and potentially game breaking.

Convenient? Would any claim other than mafia be "inconvenient" to you? My role is one that I haven't seen before, and I doubt you have either. It's also easily verifiable. How is that "convenient"? Game-breaking? How is it more game-breaking than a normal cop? If I say who I'm hiding with before each night, then, if I'm hiding with an innocent (more statistically likely than if I hide with scum), the scum have a confirmed innocent to kill. On the other hand, if I don't say who I'm hiding with, then if I hide with scum, nobody knows who it was who killed me.

The lucky game start makes one lynch expendable i.e. you

Or, you know, someone that there's a

guilty cop result

on.

If we lynch you, the potential "guilty" Dmi, if LML is sane, is still around and we get more clues for the town with second results from both, LML and Sapphire.

Conversely, if we lynch someone else, we find out if you're guilty tonight. Gosh, that would be pretty terrible, wouldn't it?

Oh, I also like how you originally suggest that I should be vigi-ed, then when I suggest the same thing, you seem to think it's a horrible idea. Which is it, Phoebus?

[help im a bug]

Dmi, wow. I thought

my

role was a bit overpowered. Still, I believe you, since it matches my role so well.

Actually, it fits ridiculously well with my role. If we hide in each others' houses every night, aren't we completely un-night-killable? Two un-night-killable, confirmed townies.

So how about this: today, we lynch LML. Tonight, Dmi and I hide in each other's houses. If either of us is dead, then we lynch the other tomorrow; a 1-1 mafia-townie trade. If (as I hope) neither of us dies, then we have two confirmed, un-nightkillabe townies, which should be a nearly insurmountable bonus for the town.

Hmm, though, with all this hiding in houses, I wonder if stewie hasn't planned for this, and created a role that can kill people hiding in houses. Well, it's a risk I'm willing to take. Dmi, are you?

unvote, vote LML

[help im a bug]

Phoebus, I find your "twin" proposition very interesting. I wouldn't be surprised if it were the case at all. If this entire game is made out of mirror images of sorts, though, I do wonder if one of two things isn't the case:

Possibility 1, one out of each of the pairs is Mafia. This would be thematic, but I think a bit overpowered for the scum.
Possibility 2, there are also two mirroring pairs of mafia, possibly each with a godfather.

unvote LML

.

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Oh, sorry, you're right. I should have mentioned it earlier.

I didn't use my ability last night; I figured, with 3 mafia and one SK (random guesses for both on my part) that there would be a 3/11 chance of me dying if I hid, while there would only be a 1-(8/9*10/11) = 1-80/99 = about 1-4/5 = 1/5 chance of me dying if I didn't (not counting possible doc protection), and I wanted to avoid dying night 1.

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What's suspicious about wanting to stay alive? I wouldn't have gotten any information for the town if I'd found mafia night one and been killed, I'd just be another (well, A) dead townie.

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*sigh* Sorry I couldn't return to defend you, Dmi. Now let's just hope you weren't a psychic liar.

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Oh, right, and with Dmi dead, I'm going to return to my previous plan of visiting Phoebus.

[help im a bug]

Oh, wow.

Well, my defense was that, unless both of us are lying, it is the best plan for the town not to lynch me or Dmi.

The reasoning being, tonight, we can hide in each other's houses. If one of us dies, then the other must be mafia, and the town can lynch him: a 1-1 trade, which is obviously in the town's favor. If, as I stated earlier, we are

both

telling the truth, then we have two. unkillable. confirmed. townies. This would be

huge

.

So, the possibilities, if someone else is lynched and we stay in each other's houses tonight, are:

bug = town, dmi = town: awesome town advantage
bug = town, dmi = scum: 1-1 trade for the town
bug = scum, dmi = town: 1-1 trade for the town
bug = scum, dmi = scum: this is obviously the worst outcome, but, as we have tons of claimed cops running around and possibly a vig, surely

one

of them could check one of us tonight.

So, in 3 out of the 4 possible cases, it is in the town's interest to lynch someone other than dmi or myself. So, if you're voting for Dmi, that means you think I'm scum as well. As Dmi's claimed role is more powerful than my claimed role, this doesn't make sense at all. There's no reason to vote Dmi over me. Basically, the

best

option for the town would be to leave both of us alone, but, if you're all absolutely sure we're both lying, it makes no sense to vote him over me. I'm the better lynch, out of the two of us.

But there's no reason the town has to vote one of us. I think there are several better options out there. I, for one, would like to hear more about Talitha's role, and why she can't, apparently, change votes before deciding.

Oh, and the reason I absolutely believe Dmi is telling the truth? Because the way he phrased his roleclaim very closely mirrors the structure of my PM.

[help im a bug]

Look, all I'm saying is, in the current situation, there's absolutely no reason to vote Dmi instead of me. I can promise you, lynching me will clear him absolutely, while if you lynch him, there will still be some doubt about whether I've been telling the truth (though, it would be pretty smooth of me to guess about cowards, huh?). His ability is more powerful than mine.

And, Talitha, I want to know more about why you can't unvote. Did you know you wouldn't be able to unvote at the beginning of the day? If so, why did you waste your vote? And, if you didn't know, doesn't this mean someone targeted you with an ability during the day that, what, makes you unable to unvote? I don't exactly see how that can be construed as a "pro-town power", Lee, if that's what happened.

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Phoebus said:

And since, in your own words, I'm a townie, and no longer pushing to get YOU lynched, go hide with someone else. You have a better chance of finding scum there.

Actually, I believe my most recent words on your alignment happened to be "inconsistent scum", and this is a notion of which I haven't yet been entirely disabused. However, I'm also all for putting pressure on lurkers:

fos: warpdragon.

Quoth Tally:

I can understand the curiousity now that I've stupidly drawn attention to my role, but I'm not going to give out any unneccesary information about it. Scum will be able to take advantage of it. So yeah, if you wanna know more you'll have to try and lynch me, sorry

So, it was part of your role that prevented you from unvoting, I take it? Because saying "no, my inability to unvote has nothing to do with my role" wouldn't really be giving away dangerous information. Interesting.

[help im a bug]

Done and done.

phoebus 31
lml 24
hiab 21
ntw 19
tally 18
sv 15
pinky 11
fuldu 11
shadow 8
dmi 5
quailman 4
warp 2

I'm glad you suggested this. It's really brought one thing to my attention that I hadn't noticed: Quailman. 4 total posts. 1 random vote, 3 bandwagon jumps.

unvote, vote: Quailman

[help im a bug]

I think warpdragon's a lurker.
I think Quailman is actively trying to stay hidden.

I wouldn't be totally surprised if they were both scum, but I think Quailman's the better pick.

[help im a bug]

Also, note the way Quailman suddenly appeared to defend himself, while Warpdragon hasn't, even though he's had a longer period of time since you brought his lurking to our attention.

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Quoth Dmi:

I know I am not scum. The fact that bug claimed a role that makes as much sense as mine makes him innocent in my mind. I didn't die at night in Pinky's house. So if I'm lynched, when you find out I'm this awesome town role, bug, hide at Pinky's.

Oops. Pinky's right, Dmi. With what I've told the rest of the town so far, there's no real reason for me to hide at Pinky's tonight: if you are who you claim you are, and he's town, I'd just confirm that. This statement leads me to believe that you are what I had about a 10% suspicion that you were: a Mafia Spy who investigated me last night, found out who I was, and made a role claim that complemented my

complete

role, not just the parts I'd revealed. I trusted you up until you made this blunder.

unvote, vote Dmi

[help im a bug]

Assuming this is an actual lynch this time, I'm still hiding with Phoebus.