Open 163 (Jungle Republic)- Game Over before 835

[Scott Brosius]

I have played with DT and SW in a game where I just got killed. Otherwise everyone else is new to me. I'll look through the rest tonight.

[Scott Brosius]

I don't see how DT and KK are uncomfortable about an L-3. Sure its on page 1, but it's highly unlikely a quick-lynch would occur and if it did, there would obviously be scum late on the wagon making finding scum easier. Wagons are effective in gaining a reaction especially early in the game, but I think hohum and Nikanor exaggerated DT's reaction, although nik took it quite further than hohum did.

[Scott Brosius]

Mastin still hasn't confirmed (as of this post). What are the chances that he is reading the game so far. (And L-3, while I don't think is scummy for the RVS, is odd to look at on

just page 1

)

As I said previously, there is nothing wrong with a L-3 wagon on the first page, but I really don't see DT overreacting in this post or defending. It's null either way, and I think anyone perpetuating the issue to be scummy (has,nik)

I have nothing on anyone, not a shred.

In due time we will see if this is lazy town or scum. But it's a pretty useless statement either way

Vote: Cain

[Scott Brosius]

Vote:Cain

Bold failed

[Scott Brosius]

It's null either way, and I think anyone perpetuating the issue to be scummy (has,nik)

Are you kidding me? You really believe anyone with a differing opinion to be scummy?
DTM himself has acknowledged that his post can be interpreted as defending.
I don't like your vote, either. You call two people scummy, then vote for a completely different person. Why is that?

No I just think that continuing that argument is counterproductive and people continuing it 5 pages later might be trying to distract the town from finding scum.

Did you see Cain's gem of a post? Easily the most anti-town post in this game so far.

[Scott Brosius]

Problem with that is, it doesn't really make them look anti-town at all. And we've got a long deadline, I'm sure we're going to find scum without any distractions.

And oh that honor hasn't gone to me? Phew!

Well its better to voice one's opinions than not. It's extremely anti-town to just say "I don't know" and offer no reads.

Also the first line of your post seems weird to me. Almost over-confidence that would only be seen from an non-town player.


Anyway, I have never played in a game where there is a anti-town group that does not have NKs. Anyone have experience with this setup?

[Scott Brosius]

I know others have tried to make me look bad, but you tried the hardest, and I don't like it, especially as I haven't really done anything anti-town.

Meh you brought up some points about Zazier I agree with about the list of 7 people being unhelpful and Cain's absense from that list, but when you support a vote with the statement above, it looks like OMGUS. Voting someone because they make you look bad or because you think you haven't done anything anti-town isn't a stable case against a person.

[Scott Brosius]

@Scott/Hohum/Toro
Do you three see Sabre's 187, 188, and 189 as OMGUS reasons and not actual, legit reasons that would make Zazier scummy. Can you debunk his argument to show how this is done?

As I said in my post before, I agreed with some of his logic against Zazier. It's not extremely helpful when you list more than half the game as scummy. Lists can be used to distance too, so I understand where SW put his vote.

On the other hand, he didn't need to add that extra sentence about zazier making him look bad and that he hasn't looked anti-town. That statement is peculiar and scummy to me.

[Scott Brosius]

@Scott: how do you feel about being on Zazie's list?

No reaction to it, half of the game is on the list and it just seems to be the people who posted some content before zaz replaced.

[Scott Brosius]

@Scott: how do you feel about being on Zazie's list?

No reaction to it, half of the game is on the list and it just seems to be the people who posted some content before zaz replaced.

Other then nik, which I find peculiar.

Zazie could be distancing, not only was nik not on the list, Zaz doesn't comment of any of nik's posts or make any comments about nik in his page of posts.

[Scott Brosius]

Post 194 – Interested in hearing whom I’ve called useless,

Scott

That question doesn't make sense to me with the post you cited.

As for SW saying that zazier is distracting, at least he's posting. Half of the players are lurking or absent. I'd rather have something to go on. Nikanor's post is on target, especially with a 7v5 setup, we are more likely to hit an anti-town member by going after a lurker.

[Scott Brosius]

we are more likely to hit an anti-town member by going after a lurker.

Do you think we should lynch saber today or some random lurker?

Usually I would go for SW since I don't like lynching lurkers D1 since there is so little information. But in this setup where 5/12 players are anti-town roles, I don't mind it as much. I don't like how SW has been so defensive toward zazier, but I don't want to place a vote to put him at L-1 when half of the players are lurking and anti-town players can swoop in and lynch him if he is town.

I don't like saber's appeals to emotion that you mentioned. However, I have seen this reaction from town and scum when at L-2 or L-1. It could be the obvious scum attempting to con his way out of being lynched, or it could be a townie who just wants to continue playing the game and not be lynched D1.

I think it's a bit strange to start lining up lynches when he's at L-2. Normally, I wouldn't expect scum to do that, but with 2 anti-town groups, it's a little more reasonable I think.

[Scott Brosius]

EBWOP: Who do you think is most worthy of a lynch today?

I like my vote where it is at the moment. Cain has done nothing to help the town, but is around to pop in if addressed. It seems like he is actively lurking.

[Scott Brosius]

Holy spam, Zazie! But I guess this is your SOP so I'll get used to it.

Post 54: This would have more merit if Sabre didn't post his analysis on 67. Out of the 4 of us, the only one who didn't post an analysis was Hohum, which brings me to question:

Hohum, why didn't you do Sabre's request? Zazier, why didn't you point the finger at Hohum for this?

I, too, would be interested in answers to these questions.

At least his spam has some content. You have done nothing in this game. There is a grace period since you replaced, but this is all you have to offer? No thoughts on anyone? Just piggybacking on a zazier question?

FoS: lumi

[Scott Brosius]

I meant DT's question

[Scott Brosius]

At least his spam has some content. You have done nothing in this game. There is a grace period since you replaced, but this is all you have to offer? No thoughts on anyone? Just piggybacking on a zazier question?

FoS: lumi

If you're looking with suspicion on people who've done nothing, there are far more useless people here than I. If you bothered to read, you'd know I have offered my thoughts on several people.

Scott Brosius, ThAdmiral, ZazieR: nothing yet to get a read on

Kill-kill: has provided nothing useful yet

Nikanor, DTMaster, hohum: provided plenty to read, but in the end all seemed to come off pretty neutral to me

Cain: nothing to add, seriously? You made a vote that touched off pages of discussion, but still have nothing to say?

saberwolf: repeatedly attempted to defuse or distract from the DTM/Nik/hohum conflict, yet at the same time poked at Nik in an antagonizing way

hasdgfas: It seemed odd at first that you were complaining about DTM not being defensive enough, but on re-read I think I understand what you're getting at.

Toro: Not getting a good gut feeling here.

FoS Cain

Vote: saberwolf

This is the one post where you have offered opinions. Most of your opinions are neutral or nothing to get a read on. None of your reads have changed? There has been a good deal of activity since you offered initial reads and it seems you are keeping up with the game. I'm just wondering why you haven't offered much since the initial post.

[Scott Brosius]

At least his spam has some content. You have done nothing in this game. There is a grace period since you replaced, but this is all you have to offer? No thoughts on anyone? Just piggybacking on a zazier question?

FoS: lumi

If you're looking with suspicion on people who've done nothing, there are far more useless people here than I. If you bothered to read, you'd know I have offered my thoughts on several people.

Also, I agree with the first part. This game has inactivity everywhere much worse than you. Kill-kill, Cain, admiral? Care to post?

[Scott Brosius]

A majority of posts since my first were Zazie rehashing the early discussion. As none of that gave me a good read, it's not worth bothering to comment on.

Is it so odd to have mostly neutral reads on day 1? I don't really understand why you're singling me out for attack while ignoring the people who have offered nothing at all. In fact, you haven't opined much more than I have.

Just trying to get sparse posters to post more. Seems to have worked in your case.

[Scott Brosius]

The timing of that post suggests you are actively lurking. Why is that?

[Scott Brosius]

prod recieved! sorry, had my computer in the shop over the past three days getting fixed! all good now!

wow, three votes, some people really hate me. I have no role to claim to keep me safe, all i can do is tell you im town. The reason i sit back and watch is because this is only my third gama and im just watching, still having very little input, and yeah i know it looks scummy, but if i posted just lots of random posts then chances are i would be suspected of told im stupid. I cant decribe how hew i am to this game, and trying to pick scum tell things up to try and help.

Hope this make things clearer, if not just ask!

Nobody is going to call you stupid, it's a game. But it seems like you haven't even made an effort, hence my vote. Also saying that people hate you and reacting that way to only 3 votes when you aren't the leading wagon at the moment confirms my vote.

Kill-kill, are you saying the DTM/nik argument was useless?

[Scott Brosius]

Kill-kill, are you saying the DTM/nik argument was useless?

What are you referring to?

Cow

Comes in, attempts to arbitrate nikanor/DTM argument, and tries to get the discussion back to real scum-hunting

L

Just wondering what you meant by "real scum-hunting"

[Scott Brosius]

Zazier's wall of fun obviously.

Any Prods needed? hohum hasn't posted in forever.

[Scott Brosius]

To me Saber started flipping out when pressured then pretty quickly changed to a more calm approach. Seems to me one of his scum buddies advised him to chill out...and maybe fed him some ideas.

Unless there is rule-breaking, in the PMs fuzzy provided at the beginning, both anti-town groups are only allowed to converse during night. So this is not feasible. Unless you were saying that people told him to chill out in the game thread which i don't think happened.

[Scott Brosius]

My vote is staying on Cain/peacesells. His lurking, wanting to be replaced at L-2, and his analysis ONLY of the people who voted Cain still sound anti-town to me. Also the little comment about how SW is acting scummiest seems like he's attempting to buddy up to town.

With one read through my general feeling is Saber is scummiest acting (well actually, I would have voted Cain had I not been him as he appeared as a newb scum to me.)

I'm still not sure about SW. The wagon built up so quickly then crumbled, not really sure what to think of that. He certainly has not been acting very town, but I think peacesells is still a better lynch for today.

SW:are you still content with your vote on Nik? What do you think of Cain's replacement?

Getting town reads from DT

I wasn't getting good vibes from hohum, but alas he has vanished. Need to hear more to make an opinion.

Toro has a weird style, but I would lean town for the time being. Not enough to go on here though.

Toro:Why did you unvote?

Still retain my earlier suspicions of lumi.

I am pretty neutral on nikanor, cow, kill, Zaz at the moment.

[Scott Brosius]

and his analysis ONLY of the people who voted Cain still sound anti-town to me.

I explained the reasoning for that and if you choose to outrightly act like I did not explain that reasoning then I can only assume you are trying to manipulate others thoughts in this regard.

Instead of saying "he only focused on those voting Cain" why don't you tear apart my reasoning instead. Then no one is misled by you into thinking I did a huge OMGUS tunnel on 5 players.

When I get the opportunity (meaning several hours of free time) I'll post my thoughts on other players.

Your reasoning for it is complete WIFOM. Of course you would say there are 1-3 scum on your wagon regardless of your actual position.

[Scott Brosius]

Ok..gonna give some general feelings here on a few players. I think it's pretty likely that there is 1, 2 or 3 anti-town on the Cain wagon right now so I will be concentrating on those 5 players that voted for me (Cain.)

Kill Kill: I'm a bit confused about Kill Kill. He voted for Cain but subsequently put forth reasons how Cain would be town...not sure what to make of this. Fence riding with a hidden vote? Trying to make it seem like he was defending someone while still voting for them? Like I said, confused.

Scott: Someone had mentioned that Scott seems pretty town/helpfull so far. I don't get this. To me all he has done is fence sit and make general "mafia game" comments..."this usually happens" type stuff. They are the kinds of posts that make someone seem helpfull and "good" without actually committing to the game. Basically a play it safe style to avoid attention. Definitely not active scum hunting.

Lumi: Seems a bit paranoid that people continue to "singel" him/her out. Not sure what to make of this but seems really worried about players directing attention his/her way without any actual votes.

DT: If there is a player type in this game I can relate to the most it's DT. His early discuss about Mastin is probably one I would have agreed with. Why jump on someone who hasn't even showed up yet? FWIW I've played with Mastin and his Wall of text was tiresome...along with his insistance that we must META-game him. I have a hard enough time reading everything in one game let alone reading someone elses 5 other games. Sheesh! Anyway, back on topic. I don't see anything particularly good or bad about DT so far.

Toro: Earlier I stated that while reading the thread in case I got a role I thought that Cain seemed pretty scummy or horribly inexperienced and young. Well, I was pretty much following Toro's logic. Also his points to Kill-kill about his defense of Cain yet still voting him are interesting.

Right now my list of suspects would be in thise order. Scummy to Town

Vote Scott

lumi
Kill
DT
Toro

And this post, reflects a non-neutral opinion about one player (me), with a town lean for Toro. You are either "confused", "not sure what to make of this", or "don't see anything good or bad so far" about the other three players you list. And you accuse me of saying bland statements? It's also pretty ridiculous to chastise me for having neutral reads on players D1.

How is my question filler? Obviously I think you are anti-town since my vote is still on you. SW hasn't posted in a awhile so I inquired about his vote. What do you want me to answer?

DT didn't overreact to the stupid Mastin beginning of this game and has been informative and questioning many people. So a town lean.

Hohum seemed to be antagonizing DT and keeping that Mastin argument going too long. But he has disappeared.

I was told this is Toro's style of play. Of course style of play is a factor. Do you play the same style of play when you are town and scum?

Toro: Obviously I am aware that Cain/peace are 2 different players. That doesn't mean we forget about the replaced player though.

[Scott Brosius]

I don't like how SW became very very quiet since the wagon on him crumbled. Almost as if he does not want to say anything harmful again. He picked up his prod claiming internet failures, promised to post Monday and has not. He posted in an ongoing game yesterday where I am dead however and still nothing here.

Unvote: peacesells
Vote: saberwolf

[Scott Brosius]

Can we get a vote count?

[Scott Brosius]

He posted in an ongoing game yesterday where I am dead however and still nothing here.

This is interesting..do you have a link?

Please do not post links to ongoing games in other games

-Fuzzy

[Scott Brosius]

I verified cow's case against hohum. Although nothing lengthy, he has been posting in other games. Pretty laughable that he brings up LAL when he is lying. The good thing about having 2 anti-town factions is that nobody can use the useless excuse of "I found scum! Therefore I am town!". So if hohum turns up mafia/wolf, we can probably be sure cow and SW who started the campaign against hohum are not part of his faction. As I said earlier I don't mind lynching a lurker in this setup since almost half the game is anti-town.


Shotty you mention hohum has being scummy but you leave him off your Summarization post. Why?

THAdmiral- You summarize the actions with hohum lately but don't offer an opinion? What do you think of him?

Unvote: saberwolf
Vote: hohum

[Scott Brosius]

would like to say for the record i was the one who initially thought ZazieR's wall splices were scummy.

This reeks of "look guys I was first and may have done something that is pro-town!"

[Scott Brosius]

This whole discussion about Zazie's post style doesn't affect his alignment in this game. Zazie does that in all his games. Whether the style itself may be inherently more useful to a scum-player that has no relevance to his alignment now. Any attempt at using his poststyle as a scum-tell is scummy in itself. Since he clearly does it all the time trying to persuade him to change his style is a waste of our time so let's get our focus back on the game.

Vote Hohum

After double checking Icanhascow is correct about him.

You vote hohum but didn't mention him in your Summarization post. Why is that?

[Scott Brosius]

Oh btw town Hohum is L-2 FYI. Usually this is the claim point if the town is leaning in this direction.

Considering there is only one power role (seer) in this open setup, I see no point to claiming. It's weird that you would mention this if you were town. So either you are a lazy town who forgot the setup, or you are anti-town sniffing out the power role. Cain was at L-2. SW was at L-2. Why only mention this when hohum is at L-2?

[Scott Brosius]

Considering there is only one power role (seer) in this open setup, I see no point to claiming.

Do you mean no point in claiming at L-2, or no point in claiming at all?

In this setup, claiming at all. If hohum claimed VT right now, would we all get off his case?

[Scott Brosius]

It's useless for the player claiming because, whether or not he's actually telling the truth, he'll get NKed anyways, as there is no doc or equivilent to prevent it. The only good part to the claim would be town would back off and increase their chances of a day 1 anti-town lynch

Well, if someone we were about to lynch ends up geting nk'd, it's better for the town because it gives us more of a chance to hit scum with our lynch, and it forces scum to use their nk on a potential mislynch.
On that note, if someone falseclaims seer, I recommend the true seer to not counterclaim until the day before lylo, so that we get as many investigations in as possible, while still leaving room for a mislynch to confirm or deny the seer's counterclaim.

I was more talking about what saber said. It's useless for the player claiming because with such few power roles, that player will probably get lynched regardless. Obviously it can give more information to the town if a player fakeclaims seer and is alive the next day. I'm fine with hohum claiming, but claims in this setup are not going to hold much water given the lack of power roles. Hence my saying they are useless.

My point in bringing this up initially was not to dwell on claiming strategy but to point out DTMaster's difference in behavior when different people were at L-2.

[Scott Brosius]

I kind of agree with scott.

It's useless for the player claiming because, whether or not he's actually telling the truth, he'll get NKed anyways, as there is no doc or equivilent to prevent it. The only good part to the claim would be town would back off and increase their chances of a day 1 anti-town lynch

This is giving me a really bad vibe from both you and Scott now, sounds as

if you two are werewolves

and you'd want to make sure that Hohum (if he's the seer) doesn't speak to try and clear himself.

Unvote

Vote: Saberwolf

Why can we only be werewolves? Since you are mafia and know your other members? Mafia-slip perhaps?

[Scott Brosius]

Vote Count #6

Cain

: 5

(Kill-kill, Scott Brosius, lumi, DTMaster, Toro)

Nikanor

: 2

(hohum, saberwolf)

Saberwolf

: 3

(hasdgfas, ZazieR, Nikanor)

Not Voting

:

(ThAdmiral, Cain)

With 12 Alive it takes 7 votes for a lynch.

Prodding hohum, lumi, saberwolf, ThAdmiral,

Searching for a replacement for Cain

L-2

[Scott Brosius]

I kind of agree with scott.

It's useless for the player claiming because, whether or not he's actually telling the truth, he'll get NKed anyways, as there is no doc or equivilent to prevent it. The only good part to the claim would be town would back off and increase their chances of a day 1 anti-town lynch

This is giving me a really bad vibe from both you and Scott now, sounds as

if you two are werewolves

and you'd want to make sure that Hohum (if he's the seer) doesn't speak to try and clear himself.

Unvote

Vote: Saberwolf

Why can we only be werewolves? Since you are mafia and know your other members? Mafia-slip perhaps?

The seer doesn't investigate for mafia, only werewolves. So mafia would have a lot more reason to fear the seer than a werewolf would.

Also, to confirm...

If someone claims seer and isn't the seer, the real seer should not counterclaim! The fake seer will get killed at night.

I assume you mean the other way around on the bolded. Wolves should fear seer more since they can be caught.

[Scott Brosius]

Mod: Is it no-lynch if we don't reach 7 votes by deadline?

Yes, if there is not a clear majority at deadline, there is a no-lynch

- Fuzzy

[Scott Brosius]

I kind of agree with scott.

It's useless for the player claiming because, whether or not he's actually telling the truth, he'll get NKed anyways, as there is no doc or equivilent to prevent it. The only good part to the claim would be town would back off and increase their chances of a day 1 anti-town lynch

This is giving me a really bad vibe from both you and Scott now, sounds as

if you two are werewolves

and you'd want to make sure that Hohum (if he's the seer) doesn't speak to try and clear himself.

Unvote

Vote: Saberwolf

Why can we only be werewolves? Since you are mafia and know your other members? Mafia-slip perhaps?

No, with saber agreeing with you about not having hohum claim at all when he could be the seer makes it sound as if you two just want to hurry up and not give the seer a chance to speak up. And you two (if you're werewolves) would want a quicklynch of the seer.

Doesn't really answer my question, but I guess it was more of an observation than a question.

[Scott Brosius]

Is everyone happy with their vote? I've seen games where there is potential for a no-lynch and its so easy for non-town groups to hide D1 based on the excuse "Well I had to vote someone or else we would no-lynch" when a wagon forms close to deadline.

[Scott Brosius]

Hohum hasn't posted since Friday (5 days ago) in this game. I would rather him replaced than lynch him, but if he is to remain in the game then he's going to be a huge distraction future days and I want him out of here. So for the time being I am happy with my vote, but would rather a replacement for hohum.

Hohum needs another prod

[Scott Brosius]

nik: something more than one liners please?

I'm writing a post for another game. But if it'll make you happy, I'll post something longish now, while you're online and waiting.
The hohum wagon is ridiculous. I'd say there are probably 2-3 scum on it right now.
Scott's reasoning for voting hohum is dubious. He says he'd rather wait for a replacement than lynch hohum, so why does his vote stay on hohum?
Other than that, I'm waiting for a response to my question for peacesells, which he so expertly avoided today.

Because I'd prefer to lynch hohum over a no lynch since we are only 4 days to deadline. But I would prefer him replaced to all of those options. If he doesn't get replaced, he's going to continue being a distraction and useless. If he gets replaced, even if its near deadline, it will at least be someone with a pulse who we can get reads on D2.

Also there's probably going to be 2-3 scum on any wagon given that 5/12 players are anti-town. So your comment as to why the hohum wagon is bad can be applied to any wagon. Is there an actual reason why you don't like the hohum wagon?

[Scott Brosius]

Is there an actual reason why you don't like the hohum wagon?

Because Lynch all Lurkers is stupid.

Usually, but almost half the game is anti-town. So I think its fine here. Also hohum was caught lying, you don't think that is scummy?

[Scott Brosius]

Unvote, Vote: hasdgfas

Lynch all Liars.

Then we find out he has been posting in other games and that cow's claims are true. Also these promises below turn out to be lies.

I'm not really posting in any of my games. I'm staying on top of my mod duties and those have to take precedence over games I'm playing it. This has been a horribly busy week for me personally IRL. I don't normally make a habbit of dropping games but in this case it couldn't be avoided.

I haven't asked to be replaced yet because I fully intend to start posting. It's friday now and things are starting to slow for me. I should have plenty of time this weekend to catch up.

Scum points to the cow for the flat out lies.

That was Friday. It's now Thursday (here at least). More lies about catching up/posting as it is now almost a week later.

The fact that he is lurking, lying, and voting someone else citing LaL all boils down to scum to me.

What is pro-town about these lies? What sort of scumhunting has he done since his participation ended on about page 4? Why do you keep defending him?

Mod: Prod or replace Hohum plz?

Searching for a replacement for hohum

-Fuzzy

[Scott Brosius]

If mod is going to replace hohum, I am happy with that over a lynch. Perhaps the replacement will actually add something to the game.

So I'm back to saberwolf who is next on my scum list and whose lynch will be informative since he has had many interactions. Summary of my case below

I know others have tried to make me look bad, but you tried the hardest, and I don't like it, especially as I haven't really done anything anti-town.

Directed toward zazier, OMGUS vote. Goes out of his way to say he hasn't done anything anti-town.

Mind you, by scummiest, I mean rubbed me the wrong way more than the others.

So for people to be scummy, they have to rub you the wrong way? This is what prompted me to vote for you when you said this about ZazieR.

The two situations are different. In the first situation, we have almost nobody talking at all, and out of the four active people, three were fighting each other in a OMGUS battle. I tried not to take any sides, cause to me it was clear that they were tunneling, and that

I'd get almost no useful information out of the fight.

There was not enough information and the timelength was too short [considering we were still in the RVS] to be able to claim any of the activity was scummy. In the second situation, I felt that ZazieR had made an inappropriate attack on me, and seemed to be trying hard to discredit me. Looking at it from a scum perspective it would make sense: I was the only one not involved in the fight, so I was the only one who didn't make myself look bad. Also, I had already gained the respect and title of pro-town from one player, so it'd be best to try to take that away from me and make me look as bad as possible to make the odds better in favour of scum.

Hope that helps. Although, no doubt, you'll do your best to rip this to shreds too, or else claim ignorance.

zazier pointed out the bolded statement, not thinking about the town, just himself

I'm clearly losing this battle.

Guys, when I flip townie, it is my wish that you go after ZazieR. If flips anti-town, nik next.

This is fucking stupid.

Btw, hope you guys realise that because I'm losing the battle, it makes me more likely to be town. Mafia at least know who they are, same with werewolves, therefore they can gang up on an issue and make the other guy look bad. If a non mafia starts a case on me, the mafia arent gonna step in, and same if it were werewolves. All I can hope for are town support, which isn't gonna happen much.

ok guys, I'm back. I had to take a couple hours off to cool down.

First of all, I would like to apologize to ZazieR. I normally get lynched day 1, and every time have turned up townie. For once I was happy, because initially in this game I had appeared as a good townie, and figured for once I'd make it to day 2. Then you came along and started ruining it for me. I will admit I started to OMGUS you and tunnel as well. I was probably too defensive, which lead to my own destruction. I still claim townie, and I almost was at the point where I was so pissed I was just gonna claim werewolf with two other random names and autowin it for the werewolves. Anyways, looking over it all, I think that in this case, I did not represent the towns as well as I should of, and for that, I probably don't deserve to be here.

unvote

I will now do an analysis of the whole game the best I can. Next post will be within an hour I hope.

Both above posts are clear appeals to emotion. Not a satisfactory defense.

SW gets to L-2 where the wagon stalls, and focus shifts to Cain before he is replaced. After the SW wagon crumbles, SW is very quiet, almost as if he doesn't want to incriminate himself again.

More participation when hohum drops in and starts pushing a hohum wagon.

would like to say for the record i was the one who initially thought ZazieR's wall splices were scummy.

When i believe cow brought up that zazie's style could be hiding scumtells, SW says this in an attempt to look more town

The peacesells/SW argument where SW corrects a vote from peacesells that would not have counted and put hohum at L-1 was generally stupid. I thought SW got overly defensive towards peacesells in that situation.

Unvote: hohum
Vote: saberwolf

[Scott Brosius]

haha...


you want to see defensive? I'll show you defensive.....


YOU ARE WRONG AND I WILL LAUGH IN ALL YOUR FACES WHEN YOU ALL LYNCH ME AND I FLIP TOWN. I AM A TOWNIE AND THAT'S ALL I GOT TO SAY. I AM NOT MAFIA, I AM NOT A WEREWOLF, I AM A TOWNIE. YOU GOT NOTHING ON ME...


and with that:

unvote; vote: saberwolf

Let's see what little information this actually gives you. I OFFICIALLY ANNOUNCE THIS AS AN ANTI-TOWN MOVE, AS YOU WILL GET VIRTUALLY NO INFO FROM THIS LYNCH. i SUPPORT MY OWN LYNCH, SO LONG AS SOMEBODY IS LYNCHED BEFORE DAY 1, AND AS IT DOESN'T SEEM TO BE HOHUM, I WILL NOW TAKE THE STAND.

good luck town.

Edited for excessive profanity, please tone it down

-Fuzzy

This is so bad if you are scum, and even worse if you are town. I really hope you aren't town cause this is awful. Don't even play if you are going to pull this.

For the record, I still think he's anti-town. This is the biggest AtE yet and he overreacted tremendously just for being put at L-4. Regardless I agree with DT that if we don't lynch SW today, he's a gigantic distraction. As I said, if you are town, this move is so awful.

[Scott Brosius]

The funny part is, once again, I never make it past day one...and once again, I flip townie...

So why explode? You were nowhere near lynch. I can understand that being voted D1 as town sucks, but that's not an argument. The game is not won or loss on your survival. Either you are scum (more likely), or a really selfish townie who is not playing for a team victory. You had many interactions with people, which will be telling regardless of what you flip. Blowing up like this is stupid.

[Scott Brosius]

For the record,

I still think he's anti-town

. This is the biggest AtE yet and he overreacted tremendously just for being put at L-4. Regardless I agree with DT that if we don't lynch SW today, he's a gigantic distraction. As I said, if you are town, this move is so awful.

You think he's anti-town, but do you think that makes him scummy?

Yes scummy. Giant AtE in an attempt to sway a no-lynch or a lynch on somebody else.

[Scott Brosius]

@ saberwolf: I think he's town. I'm going to

unvote, vote: scott

instead. Of all the people voting swolf he seems the least convinced of his own words.

That's all you have to say concerning SW? "I think he's town" That's pretty unhelpful, WHY do you think he's town. After his blowup, why is that a town tell to you?

[Scott Brosius]

Also ill take

orange

[Scott Brosius]

It's clear hohum is going to pop in whenever necessary to avoid replacement and avoid giving any information to the town. Jumped on the SW wagon toward the end as well.

Vote: hohum

nik: Late D1, we had a discussion how you didn't like the hohum wagon and through lynch all lurkers was stupid.

Is there an actual reason why you don't like the hohum wagon?

Because Lynch all Lurkers is stupid.

Going back through the thread I found this.

This game is turning into newb central. -_-;

FoS: Everyone who is lurking

Lurking is more of a scumtell in this game. Mafia-tell, specifically. If the mafia can lay low enough to not get lynched or nk'd by the werewolves, they win automatically after three days of continual lynched/nk'd townies. I tell this to the werewolves as well. It's in both the town's and werewolves' best interest for nk's to be directed at mafia. Aim for the lurkers, and you will be more likely to hit mafia, werewolves.

Why the contradiction?

[Scott Brosius]

So today you would still rather lynch someone more active than hohum?

[Scott Brosius]

V/LA of sorts, won't really be able to post until Sunday

[Scott Brosius]

@Peace

If he's not going to answer these questions then it's a strike against him. Town-Hohum can do a bandwagon analysis/reaction analysis but when you can pull out legitimate accusations against him then its no mistake that he appears scummy.

I don't see why you slightly frown upon the questions given the connotation of your statement.

I don't see why you insist on being scum. You should probably out yourself and your partner now.

Hmmm why can't he be mafia?

[Scott Brosius]

@Scott
Ummm scum = mafia or wolf. Unless they changed the definition scum = anti town faction.

Hohum accused me as one of the two antitown, not wolf.

FoS: Scott

for that statement and potential slip.

Mafia has three members. He specified you should out yourself and your partner. Not

partners

. Which means he thinks you are werewolf not mafia.

[Scott Brosius]

@Scott
How can you be sure that Hohum thinks I'm werewolf? Hohum only stated that I was scum, and did not specify anything.

We are arguing over semantics of plurals here, not the details within the posts. That is getting into dangerous territory.

Also what is your thoughts on Hohum's accusations.

I don't think were just arguing over semantics of plurals here. He specifically challenged you and your partner to out yourself. That could easily be a slip. I wish I could analyze the details of hohum's posts. But usually they don't contain any details or substance.

I have a neutral read on you, and since hohum hasn't presented a case just seemingly baseless accusations my opinion has not changed.

[Scott Brosius]

There were 2 people on SW's wagon and not on hohum's wagon. Shotty and nikanor. Given the arguments and how hohum talked to nikanor way back in the beginning of the game (pages 1-5), I am inclined to think that nikanor is not hohum's wolf buddy

Unvote

I'm not as happy with this as I thought and we have plenty of time to deadline.

Hohum was at L-1 at this point. Shotty is my most likely suspect to be a werewolf with hohum.

Hohum really only paid attention to cow and DT after page 5. He called out cow for lying about his participation in other games. Hohum also went after DTMaster toward the end of D2 saying the thread needed more DTM lynching, calling him scum, etc. I think this is more null than anything.

However, the NK of Kill-kill is weird. Honestly, not many people paid attention to him especially D2 where he barely participated. The only person who really addressed him was DT. Kill-kill wasn't really adding much to the town so it's possible that DT is the other wolf attempting to shut up KK.

Cow's behavior D2 was confusing. He talked about lynching hohum for all the other stuff and not LaL. Yet he never actually placed a vote on hohum. I don't buy the dangerous vote-count position either. If he actually thought hohum was scummy, he would have placed the vote on him.

Toro has been on every wagon this entire game. Anytime someone is at an L-2 or L-1, Toro is on the wagon. It just appears as if he's trying to blend in. Seems like potential mafia behavior to avoid being killed by wolf or lynched by town.

peacesells didn't really do much of note D2, hasn't been overly scummy or town since the whole "eager vote" situation with SW.

THadmiral started the wagon on hohum so I doubt he is the other wolf. He has appeared pretty townish to me.

Vote: Shotty to the Body

[Scott Brosius]

One interesting thing in that post, Scott, why are you more interested in the wolves than the mafia? I don't like what appears to be selective scumhunting.

Mainly because we have a confirmed werewolf dead, so there is more information to be drawn upon from that. Interactions with hohum are telling since we know he is a werewolf. We have no dead mafia so there is less to go on with them. Of less importance, I would rather kill off the last wolf than mafia as it gives the us a better chance since there would be no NK and then we can concentrate on lynching mafia.

[Scott Brosius]

@Scott: Shotty's unvote of hohum is not scummy. If Shotty had not unvoted, hohum would most likely have self-hammered then and there, which would have been much more beneficial for scum than for town.

I refuse to believe that hohum self-hammering 3 days before he actually did (if shotty kept his vote) would be "much more beneficial" for scum. That's an exaggeration. It would be the same result, killing a wolf.

Just curious what your case on me is, besides laughing and determining that I'm mafia isn't helpful. Whatever happened to "if SW flips town, I'm looking at DT tomorrow". That never happened.

[Scott Brosius]

Hahaha, I'm pretty sure Scott is mafia.
@Scott: Shotty's unvote of hohum is not scummy. If Shotty had not unvoted, hohum would most likely have self-hammered then and there, which would have been much more beneficial for scum than for town.
I agree with Cow that lynching our mafia suspects is the right way to go for now. We still have a seer that can out the last wolf, remember.
Also, now that we are down to one wolf, the seer should claim as soon as he gets a guilty. That way we can kill the last wolf as well as have a confirmed townie that cannot be killed.

What makes you say that Scott is Mafia Nik?

He's trying to go after an easy target saying my unvote is scummy when it really isn't, for one. Also he really wants to focus on the werewolves, makes him sound like mafia which will probably win for sure with a full team and both wolves down. I'll have to reread to verify but I'm pretty sure someone else posted on Scott yesterday.

Why are you answering for nikanor?

And Toro joins another potential wagon! I'm not just talking about people who have been lynched, as I said before anytime someone is at an L-2, you are on it. Most of the time, you regurgitate reasons for the lynch that others have used including your most current vote. I realize I have been on the 2 lynches, but not every single L-2.

[Scott Brosius]

Bait wins. A townie wouldn't push me on this.

Vote: Toro.

what makes you say that?

Because I've done exactly the same thing as scum.
Toro is newbscum trying to look townie by pushing someone on a seemingly anti-town action.

So because you did that once and you were a scum role, automatically makes me a scumrole? You're trying to grasp a lead here but you're only grabbing thin air Nikanor.

And what exactly are you hiding?

One last note, anyone else find it ironic that he's calling me out on a seemingly anti-town action when I called him out when he wouldn't disclose information, that being an anti-town action.

In my experience, scum don't announce they have an idea, plan, revelation whatever and then hide it. They just hide it and don't bring it up at all.

[Scott Brosius]

Trust me, I have no intentions of self-voting. I'm just saying (though I may've said it otherwise) that if I'm lynched and come out town, go after Nikanor and ThAdmiral, as I'm sure they're at least two members of the mafia.

You seem awfully worried for being at L-3.

[Scott Brosius]

Ok so who do you think is scummy?

[Scott Brosius]

Well, I was asked about the people who've voted for Toro. I was not asked about Toro himself.

Now reading shotty's post and can see where he is coming from. Quick jumping may lead to helping a lynch happen. Or, it could be unsure townee. But I don't think his jumping around is as scummy as his lack of contribution. If I recall correctly Toro pretty much post's fluff. That in combination with his vote jumping doesn't look good. I'm pretty sure this

VOTE TORO

puts him at L-1.

As Nik said, the first part of this is pretty bad. It's like you don't want to participate unless someone provokes you to.

Anyone getting a vibe that peacesells is bussing here? His last few posts were pretty much fence-sitting and even this post reeks of it a little, saying Toro could be unsure townie.

As I said in the beginning of the day, I do think Toro has been trying to blend in, but I'm not ready to end this day yet.

Unvote
Vote: peacesells

[Scott Brosius]

I answered a specific question that was asked of me. No, I was not kidding.

I answered they way I did because you were attempting to lead others to believe I was skirting a question, and I was not.


And to make sure I answer Shotty's question, I still have a "feeling" as lame as that is that Scott is scummy. Still basing this on his "helpful" play on day 1.

really? Isn't it convenient that you do this just after he votes you.

I also have no idea why you're voting for nik. It seems like it's just because he wanted you to answer a question you didn't want to.

Cow, you need to re-read and pay attention. Nik has NOT voted me. So your conclusion is false.

But I voted you, and then you called me scummy after that and then after Nik questioned you, you placed a self-admitting OMGUS vote.

[Scott Brosius]

Cow who do you feel is scummy? You haven't placed a vote since you unvoted hohum D1 (as far as I remember).

[Scott Brosius]

Looking at the interactions between nik and hohum on pages 2-4, I doubt Nik is the last werewolf.

[Scott Brosius]

Looking at the interactions between nik and hohum on pages 2-4, I doubt Nik is the last werewolf.

could be seen as distancing.

Distancing from Nik? I thought you were positive he was wolf? Therefore he doesn't have a partner...therefore you make absolutely no sense.

Also did you even read what I pointed out? My guess is no.

I would rather lynch peacesells than toro today. He is getting even more defensive than toro towards everyone that disagrees with him at this point.

[Scott Brosius]

Looking at the interactions between nik and hohum on pages 2-4, I doubt Nik is the last werewolf.

could be seen as distancing.

Distancing from Nik? I thought you were positive he was wolf? Therefore he doesn't have a partner...therefore you make absolutely no sense.

Scott, you confused me here.

What I see on pages 2 - 4 between hohum and Nik is basically a fabricated arguement. Hohum shows anger about being told where to vote by Nik. Could this not be considered distancing? Or bussing?

Hohum was a wolf per his coroner report. So, Nik would be his partner. What do you mean by this?
"

Distancing from Nik? I thought you were positive he was wolf? Therefore he doesn't have a partner...therefore you make absolutely no sense

."

I see, I got confused first. I thought you were insinuating that I was distancing from Nik. But since you think Nik is a werewolf, and one werewolf is already dead, that made no sense to me. I see what you are saying now.

[Scott Brosius]

This is exactly why I didn't want to start talking about werewolves, Peace is blowing smoke out of his ass about Nik to fog up the issue on Toro. Look at Scott's last post, Peace makes no sense he's just posting as much bullshit as he can to distract us.

How does scum hunting others fog the issue on Toro. Not looking at all cases is called Tunneling.

You guys sure like to use arguments like "bullshit" and "Blowing smoke out your ass" etc....those aren't arguments. Those are blatant scum actions trying to discredit others.

Everyone in this game should be cased..including Toro.

Shotty? Why do you want him lynched with two weeks to go on the deadline? Are we not in a precarious position now? What is the scenario if he flips town?

Why does it matter if it's two weeks or two hours at this point? If anyone wants to post something they've had plenty of opportunity at this point and twilight will give them another. We've been in a precarious position for a while now since we mislynched and wolves killed a townie, I don't see why that prevents us from taking a decisive action. If he flips town (which I highly doubt) then our odds are 50/50 of the werewolf striking scum if he aimed blindly and far greater considering we have 40 some pages to look at. Worst case we get fucked, but that'll be two lynches in a mini-open so we pretty much deserve it at that point. What would you do if Nikanor flipped town? You'd be in the same spot so you haven't really scored any points there. Let's analyze the scenarios if we're right. If Toro dies and is mafia, our game becomes a bit more random as it is subjected to the wolves whims and/or mistakes. If we lynch Nikanor and he is a werewolf, we got into 4-3 nightless except scum get to make a game plan each night and one misplaced townie vote loses the game. I actually don't mind that as much with the info we have to draw on, so I apologize for fixating. How sure are you on Nik though? Your case mostly consists of him not wanting to lynch lurkers and trying to get an active replacement for Hohum, I recall most of us bitching about Hohum not posting at some point or another. I think my case on Toro is much more solid especially since all he does is lurk and avoid my points now.

You had a very different attitude yesterday when you unvoted Hohum when he was at L-1 under the notion that there was plenty of time until deadline. What's the difference here besides this day has been 5 irl days longer than D-2 was.

[Scott Brosius]

I guess Toro is not going to pop back in and defend himself which is scummy to me. If he was part of the town, I would hope he would fight his lynch more. I still think he was attempting to blend in the previous days, his overreaction to only being put at L-3 also look bad. This day seems to have run its course.

Unvote
Vote: Toro

[Scott Brosius]

I'm pretty sure this means that Cow is mafia. Cow defended Toro with weak 'He's probably VI,' comments while simultaneously pushing for peacesells's lynch.

Vote: hasdgfas

.

I agree with this. Cow has been blending in a different fashion than Toro. While Toro was on every lynch and every wagon, Cow is on none of them. Town is armed with a voice and a vote. Cow isn't using either.

I think Toro's mentioning of Nik and ThA is a null tell if anything.

Vote: hasdgfas

[Scott Brosius]

As it stands now, I think DTM is probably hohum's partner, but now is not the time to be looking for wolves. Right now we should be lynching mafia, i.e. Cow.

Do you think hohum's comments about DTM being "obvscum" was an attempt to clear him or just null? What makes you think DTM is wolf?

[Scott Brosius]

DT: So you think the last werewolf was NOT on hohum's wagon then?

[Scott Brosius]

I AM SEER

In case this is some sort of mafia-gambit, I investigated Kill-kill, Nikanor, and Shotty, obviously none are wolves since I would have presented that. Under the assumption that Cow is telling the truth....

That means BOTH mafia members were on Toro's wagon.

Toro

: 5

(Nikanor, ThAdmiral, Shotty to the Body, DTMaster, Scott Brosius)

I don't think interactions the day Toro was lynched are going to be that helpful considering the wagon started pretty early in the day and stalled for awhile. It seems that once the wagon got going, mafia sacrificed Toro. Interactions from D1 and D2 will probably be more useful in determining the last members of the mafia. Toro got very defensive when the first 2 votes (Nik+ThA) were placed on him then he seemingly gave up.

Nikanor--- You said that DTM was obvdistancing from Hohum implicating him as a wolf. Now that we know that DTM is not a wolf do you think he is more likely town or scum?

ThA- Now that I am town, does that make DTM more likely to be scum as you claimed in your vote analysis (following Toro's vote patterns but both of us weren't mafia.

Shotty- You seemed to think Nikanor was hohum's partner. Now that we know Nikanor is not a wolf, do you think he is more likely scum or town?

[Scott Brosius]

See, here's the thing. The mafia make up 1/3 of the current town. If I go by town-directed kills, the mafia have a good chance of being a big influence in that. However, if there's someone that seems to be trusted near-unanimously by the town, I won't kill them. But "town-directed" is a bit of a misnomer, from what I've found, as scum have significant influence on the kill in that case.

That's also true. We could put it to a vote, or get everyone to nominate their top two picks for a kill, but I suppose that wouldn't help much, either. What do you think would be the best, Cow? The seer should weigh in on this as well, seeing as how he can act as confirmed townie now.

I think everyone nominating their top 2 picks for a kill would help, because that still gives me some discretion while making sure that the town gets some input.

I agree with this.

Town: I assume we are going to let Cow live today then?

Unvote

[Scott Brosius]

What changed your opinion on DTM?

[Scott Brosius]

I'll reveal my opinions after others, to avoid buddying and people hopping on my thoughts in an attempt to look town.

[Scott Brosius]

So what are we doing about Cow today? Letting him live and lynching him tomorrow?

[Scott Brosius]

Okay, so everyone should say their favourite kills for tonight, ordered from most to least favourite.
Don't forget the we have a lynch today as well.

My list is ThAdmiral, Shotty, DTM.
ThAdmiral's vote on Toro seems cheap and bandwagonny. I don't like it.
Shotty is neutral to me. He's done some scummy things, but he's also done some towny things. I can see him as ThAdmiral's partner.
I get town reads from DTM.

But THA had said Toro was scum from D1. Although the timing of his vote was bandwagonny,its not like this was the first time he said Toro was scummy. Also you have never brought up this point until then if I recall correctly.

I think ThA is the worst kill for today as he has had the least interactions out of anyone left in the game, and I don't think he is overly scummy.

I am also very suspicious of DTM and Nik as in my cursory read (correct me plz if I am wrong) neither of them ever voiced a suspicion about ThA, and now he is the top suspect on both of their lists.

If it were up to me today, given that DTM has followed Toro on every lynch, his other strongest suspicion KK flipped town, and that he has essentially avoided Toro until it was necessary to lynch him, DTM would be my choice to kill.

[Scott Brosius]

Hey anyone else wanna play this game?

[Scott Brosius]

Vote: DTMaster

[Scott Brosius]

At this rate were going to no-lynch since deadline is approaching

[Scott Brosius]

Good kill Cow. I investigated Cow and he is telling the truth he is the other wolf. I was obviously wrong on my DTM read, interesting how everyone followed me. I want to hear from Shotty especially, he has been weak in his participation since yesterday.

We are killing Cow today. Then we will enter LYLO. I would like some discussion before we do this.

[Scott Brosius]

Well before we send you off, answer the big question. Shotty or Admiral?

[Scott Brosius]

Any response Admiral? Any evidence on why Shotty is mafia?

[Scott Brosius]

Nobody at the moment, I would like to see your case on Shotty and hear from Cow first.

[Scott Brosius]

I did a quick scan. Agree with Cow that Nik did a pretty decent job covering his tracks and interacting with everyone. I need to look closer at interactions with Toro from D1 and D2.

Admiral jumps on Toro's wagon IMMEDIATELY after Nik. This seems too obvious and stupid if Admiral is scum. Admiral's meta seems to be a lurky type of player.

However, Shotty's interactions with Toro and Nik are limited, especially before D3 which may be a result of distancing. Hopped on the DTM lynch without saying a word yesterday.

I guess we can keep discussing although it seems the game is basically up to me at this point.

Vote: hasdgfas

[Scott Brosius]

Cow any last ideas before you die?

[Scott Brosius]

adddddddddddmiral where arrrrrrre you

[Scott Brosius]

Just hammer him Shotty

[Scott Brosius]

I'm here, waiting for admiral

[Scott Brosius]

Could mafia talk during the day?

[Scott Brosius]

Yeah that was why I asked the question.

[Scott Brosius]

Alright, this is a close decision. Mafia did a good job covering up interactions regardless which of these two are actually mafia. There's no point in really discussing it or me asking questions as whoever is mafia is going to be extra careful. So the most convincing scumtells for me came D3 and earlier. It was a close decision for me. I have this nagging feeling that Shotty is mafia. But I think given the generally lurking gameplay and the lack of scum-hunting during the duration of the game, I have to lynch ThAdmiral.

Vote: ThAdmiral

[Scott Brosius]

Can someone post the QTs for the scum groups?

[Scott Brosius]

Yeah I realized that after I posted. The mafia one probably had more activity.