Mini 932: Let's all be friends (Over)

[cruelty]

confirm

[cruelty]

we meet again hoopla

[cruelty]

vote: cathart

omgus

[cruelty]

Is that some bandwagoning I smell?

Versus:

Is that scum bandwagoning I smell?

I don't want to leap to the dude's defence but this bugs me.


I read it as "Is that some bandwagoning I smell".

It's fairly obvious that "dat" is an deliberate misspelling of "that", so I'm not sure why you'd conclude that "sum" was an accidental typo. I'm sure this is obvious to you and I hope that it's just an excuse to pressure early on in the game, but I don't think it's a reasonable line of attack.

[cruelty]

No you can't. I've never been scum.

Unrelated: I'm surprised we didn't hear from Cruelty last night. I noticed his name as the "Last Post" for another game around the same time that I wrote my post last night.

I'm struggling to keep up with my games atm; just recovering from an op and the painkilling drugs make me a little nauseous, don't like spending much time on the computer. This is also the reason my content hasn't been great thus far. Apologies.

Having said that, I don't really think there's a huge amount to comment on. I think Spyrex made a point that stretched about half a kilometre too far which I thought was worth addressing.

I'm not really sure what Fongoid's been up to recently; there's a weird apology/appeasement/bandwagon post where he's basically thrown up his hands and gone along with what he appears to think Spyrex wants (convoluted), and a weird, repeated question to Budja (after he'd already answered it) which, by the very nature of asking it, dilutes the psychological effect the bandwagon in question would have. I don't really understand.

considering STUFF had happened I find his ignoring it in favour of an issue over wording to be odd.

What would you like me to comment on that I haven't? I'm reading the thread and haven't really seen anything that's worth taking a second look at.

[cruelty]

There were two things I was going for with both the wording, and the question to Budja. By both dismissing the case (through my vote explanation), and getting Budja to dismiss the case (through the question), I hoped to lower the pressure level dramatically. I assumed that SpyreX would have been as adamant to get people to join the bandwagon as he had up to that point, and hopefully a bit of momentum would build, with people jumping on the wagon. Since there would be little perceived pressure, people would be more inclined to jump on the wagon, as they could not be accused of pressuring too much too soon. Budja would also hopefully not feel much if any increased pressure despite his wagon growing. If we got 2 more people on board then Budja is sitting at L-2. Pointing out the actual vote count would hopefully force real tangible pressure on him. I was hoping that this surge of pressure would be more intense than if it built up gradually over time via each additional vote. I attempted to push off the pressure buildup until later essentially, where it would surprise Budja.

However, this all apparently failed, as SpyreX (the main pusher for a Budja bw) has moved on, and my vote does no good as pressure having explained my plan, so
unvote

Ignoring the fact that it's vaguely insulting that you claim you thought you could somehow create a stealth wagon without anybody noticing, I'm just not convinced that a) this isn't a retroactive justification and b) that even if you're genuine, it's a viable strategy. There's so many variables which would have to fall in line for this plan to work that to me, it just smells like a contrived explanation for what was initially little more than an oddity, but by virtue of the above quote has now turned into possibly the most significant moment of the game thus far. Far eclipsing Spyrex's strange sum/scum misread.

Incidentally, the concept of a stealth jack-in-the-box wagon just seems horribly devious and more in-line with scum thinking to me. I guess it's not inherently scummy to want to pressure someone, but the

type

of thinking here just doesn't really seem pro-town to me. That said, null tell I guess, you might just be a villainous person.

[cruelty]

Oh I'd have the deepest respect for someone who pulled it off, but I'm not sure that's what he was actually trying to do.

[cruelty]

I'll admit to being intrigued as to how you achieved that.


Oh, for those who don't think this stealth wagon was a scum motivated tactic - neither do I; if that was what he genuinely was trying to do. My main problem with the explanation is that I suspect it's more like to be retroactive justification. Or, to put it in simpler terms, a lie.

unvote, vote Fongoid

[cruelty]

The best part of the story is where you specifically mention that the car was red.

That said, sounds painful, sorry to hear.

[cruelty]

I'm getting confused with the spyrex/budja overlap from the fountainhead game.

[cruelty]

Cruelty and Fongoid - are you opposed to either of these wagons? Why are your current votes better than these two? Would you like to present a nice, concise case on each of your suspects before I call this a two-horse race?

I think Fongoid was full of shit when he explained his plans for a stealth wagon.


I'm not particularly against either wagon, I'd probably lean a bit more towards Iceman - I wasn't a huge fan of the pro-bandwagon, anti-bandwagon switch-up, and the activity has left a lot to be desired (3 posts total?.. c'mon).

[cruelty]

I don't think it was anything particularly clever, it just looked to me like he wanted to appease some other players (Spyrex) and then do a halfassed bit of investigation. I thought the original post (his iso 2) was more about him looking good to town than anything else.

So to answer the question, I think the original post was about him looking good, and his explanation was basically a lie with the same aim.

[cruelty]

Don't really like doing this, but;

unvote, vote iceman

This is L1, he's not my #1 choice but I can't see a Fongoid wagon happening right now, and Iceman (or his replacement) needs to sort himself out.

[cruelty]

What do I think of Sean?

I didn't have a huge problem with his iceman vote, to be honest. I mean I understand the contradiction in theory, but in reality he (iceman) only had 2 votes at the time so Sean's vote wasn't hugely significant in terms of edging the wagon closer to the cliff edge.

I just get a slightly scummier feeling from ice - the inactivity coupled with the attitude reversal regarding bandwagons sets my spidey senses tingling a bit more.

[cruelty]

That said I'd much rather lynch Fongoid.

[cruelty]

I'm already compromising on Iceman, don't really want to lynch someone I have no real issue with at this stage. That said, if I'm absolutely needed on the wagon to avoid a no lynch, I'll switch to Sean. I'll just be unhappy about it.

[cruelty]

I don't really see what the issue is here. I just get a newb read from sean vs a scummy read from iceman. The fact he's only posted 3 times probably exaggerates that a bit, but I don't really think it's invalid.

That said, as I've stated, I don't really want to lynch iceman/dj. I want to lynch Fongoid/Snow White. I really didn't like his posts 76 or 120 (120 being the explanation for 76)

cruelty mainly for his "omgus" rvs vote and subsequent dissappearing act.

My random vote? Really? Not really gonna bother with this, but as far as reaching for a case goes, well, I'll defer to your expertise. Not too sure about this disappearing act gag either, but whatever reinforces your flimsy points I guess.

i may be tunneling now, but i do notice how cruelty calls out fongoid's behavior but fails to vote for him.

This is the sort of thing that really aggravates me about this site. It's day 1, there's no possible way that you can have a genuinely strong read, why the f is it so imperative that I vote? It's like if you don't tick these boxes then some chump will jump down your throat because you're obvscum.


Anyway, why didn't I vote straight away? Because I'm never sure about my day 1 reads, and I don't like rashly voting. I've never really thrown my vote around (I've played with a few of you before and my meta will support this) and I prefer my vote to have actual meaning. I don't want to be that guy who votes and unvotes ten times a day because at some point, people won't be at all concerned when you vote for them.


Basically to me, dj, you read like you've read through the game with a pre-meditated profile of me as scum, then shaped what you found to fit. I don't really think your suspicion is genuine at all. I suppose it's logical, trying to pull votes off your wagon would be desirable regardless of your alignment, but I don't really get the feeling that you're hugely pro-town at all.

By the way, where is your vote?

[cruelty]

For those who missed it, this is why I'm not enormously active 24/7.

I'm struggling to keep up with my games atm; just recovering from an op and the painkilling drugs make me a little nauseous, don't like spending much time on the computer. This is also the reason my content hasn't been great thus far. Apologies.

anyway;

just realized that you are voting for me. yet you claim to want fongoid/snowwhite over me. would i be correct in that?

No.

I wanted to lynch Fongoid over iceman. You and Snow White I'm not sure about yet. We'll see what happens.

[summary = if we're gonna lynch based on original players then yes, I'll be all over a Fongoid wagon. Don't think it's quite that simple anymore].

meta defense. brilliant. self produced meta is nothing more than null tell.

Shrug, don't know what to tell you then. I've never thrown votes around, not going to start now. If you're gonna crucify me for my playstyle then do it, I don't think holding off on a vote is exactly anti-town, especially in day one.

insulting me won't make me go away. you spent several pages in the background and then chimed in with a rather dull post.

Calling your case flimsy isn't exactly an insult, sorry if your feelings are hurt. I'll endeavour to keep a smile on your dial from here on out. The 'inactivity' such as it is has been addressed above. Not a whole lot I can do about it for now.

its not that you didn't vote. it's that you waited to vote until an alternative wagon began.

And then what? Furiously pushed the Fongoid wagon as an alternative? Where exactly are you going with this point?

Look I'm not misunderstanding you at all, I just don't think it's valid. I don't throw my vote around, and I'm certainly not going to make sure that my vote is cast precisely when the sun is at the apex of it's arc. I don't really care about timing, other wagons aren't really a concern of mine and I think this is what you're misunderstanding about me. DS's wagon wasn't even a concern of mine at the time; I thought (not sure what I think right now) that Fongoid was the scummiest player in the game, so that's where I voted.

i have rather clearly laid out my suspicions and where my vote will go.

Oh.. so I was vague in my disbelief in Fongoid's explanation?

yes. i actually pointed this out first. your rvs vote was uberscummy imo so it obviously tainted my read.

the rvs is meant for jokes and fun and it offers townies a way to enter the game with genuine lightheartedness.

lol.

This point is beyond ridiculous. I'm scum because I didn't post a fucking joke? You serious? In future, in order to avoid suspicion, I'll make sure to include a joke in the RVS. That'll clear things up and avoid any misunderstandings in the future.

as well you should. i have quite a bit of eperience on this site and sifting through the rvs is what i consider one of my specialties.

Yeah mad props. Doing a stellar job so far.

why can't i have a strong read?

That's my bad, I didn't mean you specifically. Meant it in general terms. I don't believe there's such a thing as a day 1 gimme.

Sean was the other wagon taking off. He just completely ignores it and that just sends red flags up to me.

Why? Is it genuinely inconceivable that I don't have a scumread on Sean? I don't understand why I have to discuss -everything- that happens, even when I don't find it particularly worrisome.

[cruelty]

if you would like to put your money where your mouth is then vote fongoid now.

unvote, vote snow white

the statement above was not about you. it was made in response to your question of "where's your vote at?" way to take it out of context. noone said anything about you or your vagueness.

I was implying that I was pretty clear about where my suspicions lay regardless of the fact that I didn't instantly vote.

i guess i fail to see where you "furiously" did anything... in fact, you seem to have aqcuiesced to the ice wagon even though you state you kinda sorta didn't want to.

That's my point. I voted the person I thought was scummy. I didn't push it, I didn't try to derail the DS or iceman wagons; I merely cast my vote.

And you're right, I didn't want to be on the ice wagon. I wanted to lynch Fongoid, but quite obviously it wasn't on the cards. I'm glad you picked up my subtle hints.

again, you miss the issue. its not the "holding off", its the timing in general. you "held off" until another wagon was established.

I'm not missing the issue at all, I specifically addressed this later on. You even quoted it.


gotta goto work.

[cruelty]

Case? I thought your predecessor was a liar. This hasn't changed, but the game has moved on since then.

did you notice how he changed his vote with only the slightest bit of pressure?

Wanted to see if you'd back your words up and vote with me. You gonna?

Why would he target you in such a pre-meditated way?

No idea. Possibly because I played a very passive game the last time I played with him.

It's not that you have to discuss everything, it's that you went out of your way not to discuss Sean's wagon when his and Ice's were pretty connected with the deadline at that point.

I went out of my way to not do something? c'mon. I didn't like either wagon, so yeah of course I jumped on the once I disliked the least. And then I spoke about Sean the next post. Fact is, I didn't really want either of them lynched whilst Fongoid was still in the game.

Going to work now (sigh).

[cruelty]

So you think DJ saw you as a possible easy target and then stretched his case. Alright.. Can I see the game in question?

Yeah I'll try to find it. I don't save links to my old games so I'll have to go a'hunting.

I went out of my way to not do something? c'mon. I didn't like either wagon, so yeah of course I jumped on the once I disliked the least. And then I spoke about Sean the next post. Fact is, I didn't really want either of them lynched whilst Fongoid was still in the game.

Come on, lets not re-write history here, you only commented on Sean after I called you out. Although with Sean's claim, if true, my link between the two of you is weakened.

What I meant was, in -my- next post. It's not like I voted iceman, went off on a crazy tangent, pointedly ignoring sean for days and refusing to answer questions. My next post (admittedly a day later but throw me a bone here, I'm on the other side of the world to most of you) laid out what I thought about sean and why I preferred the iceman wagon. No avoidance of your question at all.

[cruelty]

here S7.

This game was a mess.

[cruelty]

I wasn't defending him I was asking you to elaborate on your reasons so I could consider whether or not I wanted to vote him, but spin it any way you want.

Why do you need dj's input to even consider voting for someone? Is there some reason that you're unwilling to trust your own logic and reasoning?

That said Gunsmith seems like a decent claim to me, however I'd also like to point out he dodged claiming for a day. Perhaps to take the time to look up an obscure believiable claim?

Eh, this is unprovable speculation. Not really sure why you'd say this other than to subtly try to discredit DS. Motivation for that would at first glance appear to be scum trying to tip a slowing mislynch wagon over the edge.

Reaction fishing?

lol.


I'm getting some pretty bad vibes from your recent posts.

[cruelty]

Sidekicks ignorance is clearly not a good scum move to make.

cosigned.

I'm not sure what to make of her.

[cruelty]

Can you explain why you're voting me please?

I'm honestly not really sure anymore - I don't think there's much of a case to be made for me being scumbuddies with DS (which has been a prevailing reason thus far given my 'delayed vote' on Fongoid after the DS wagon built up), and most of the rest has been speculation on the reasons behind my RVS.


Not only that, but you've expressed very, very little suspicion of me prior to this vote. You didn't appear to really agree with dj's case on me. Other than a little bit of stealth wagon discussion, the only time you've directly addressed me was when asking if I'd support one of the two larger wagons (Iceman and DS).

Just so we're clear, I don't like your vote, I don't like your lack of reasoning, I don't like the fact that you haven't seriously looked at me before this. I don't like the way you called dj ubertown and then pandered your vote to him.


In a fit of OMGUS-fuelled rage (or rather, your vote on me bringing you back into radar range), I had a quick look through your iso and to be honest, I don't see a whole heap of scumhunting. There's a lot of town reads, there's a few rants on wagons, support for this, coasting on that, there's some jibber jabber about the length of day 1 and a bit of investigation as to Riddick's real identity, but not a whole heap of pointed accusations founded on logic and reason.

In fact, the only example of scumhunting looks to be your iso post 3, which is a massive wallpost discussing first some RVS votes then some speculation about wagons forming, people parroting etc. It all ends though, with the declaration that Sidekick and S7 are town.

On that note:

Although Riddick's activity and attempts to push the game forward seem more town than anything.

Sidekick and Sotty are probably town.

What do you think about this latest Sidekick / Riddick exchange

My guess is town/town

Don has really lit up the Iceman slot with the townie goodness

These aren't the only examples of Hoopla calling people town (there's more, both direct and indirect), and following are the quotes where Hoopla calls people scummy"

My early guess is one of these three is scum.

She never actually refers to anyone else as scum. There are a couple vague allusions to these beliefs (asking for Spyrex to jump on the Budja wagon and some coaching for Sidekick to pick up her game [iso 14]) but nothing outright.

Her vote on the DS wagon:

Jah, good posting. I don't see much motivation, or explaination for the Iceman target too - it's a whole lot of filler, with little content behind it. And of the little content posted, it's fairly contradictory. Sorry Budja, but you'll have to wait.

Unvote, vote: DisgruntledSean

No outright accusations, really just agreement with WoW's post.


Conclusion? Hoopla is flying below the radar, trying not to ruffle feathers. Voteworthy? Probably, I'm still in favour of a Fongoid/Snow White lynch - I think Fongoid lied + I'm not getting a good gut feeling from either of them - but would be happy to lynch Hoopla too.

Summary:

- Looking for a lynch based on convenience rather than guilt. I suppose this is possibly null this close to deadline.
- Never expressed suspicion of me before (or Snow White).
- Lots of town reads, very, very few scum reads.
- No conviction behind any of her votes. I didn't really mention it above, but her 3 votes have been: RVS on Budja, agreement with WoW/bandwagoning on DS, convenience vote on me.
- Coaching of Sidekick (null without knowledge of Sidekick's alignment).
- Lack of game-related content, a LOT of theory/appeals to wagon somebody ANYBODY prior to deadline.

Actually, talked myself out of wanting a Fongoid lynch.

vote: Hoopla

.

[cruelty]

This is nothing more than a vote of confidence in SpyreX's scumhunting capabilities and having nothing else to go on.

Vote Sidekick

Yeah I'm pretty happy with my initial Fongoid read.

i think a few people forgot to clarify what their issue was with me when i replaced in.

I think your predecessor was a liar and a villain. I have a bad gut reading from you.




Yeah I can't really see a Hoopla wagon gaining steam today so I'll shift back to SW if necessary.

[cruelty]

unvote, vote snow white

a cruelty lynch doesn't interest me, i get the same reason on him as i do most games, and his last post was pretty good, even if hoopla looks OK to me.

I've played with you before?

[cruelty]

I find it a little hard to believe we zeroed in on two important town prs day 1..

[cruelty]

Snow White.

[cruelty]

Cruelty. Yes because I dont fully expect to be killed tonight. Had I not claimed i would have been lynched. Flipped doctor and giving free reign to scum to kill your claimed gunsmith. Thus twas essential imo i claimed. Your wrong.

a) why is this addressed to me?

b) what the f are you talking about. you still drunk?

c) not sure i believe the claim, not sure your motivation to claim is pure.

d) you're.

[cruelty]

I have reason to believe Snow White's claim.

I can further explain tomorrow. Make this lynch happen.

Back later tonight.

And yeah, results/targets please.

[cruelty]

Spyrex, I wanted the aforementioned further explanation.

Iso2. "Its getting difficult to keep hand eye co-ordination but motor functions are intact." -yay for studying nursing and knowing fancy terms!!

a) that's not 'fancy terms' (wtf?) and b) that's not really a breadcrumb imo.

Iso2."Ah HEYLO Monsieur Eff" - where i think i found Fongoids crum. Eff-Fongoid.

This isn't a breadcrumb.

Iso6 "insane in the membrane" - Simple biology. Cell membrane etc.

Breadcrumbing insanity would be plausible. Doc, not so much.

Iso9. M.A.C.H.O. down the side.

You serious? You can't lay breadcrumbs after you've been asked to role claim.



I'm not really sure what to make of you but I doubt the legitimacy of your 'breadcrumbs'. I think that it's possible you are who you say you are, but I think your defence is generally pathetic and contrived.

[cruelty]

I can further explain tomorrow. Make this lynch happen.

Can isn't will. With whats out the pieces add up plenty fine.

When I posted that, she hadn't claimed or revealed her 'breadcrumbs'.

[cruelty]

I dont get what your saying Cruelty. Your backing off asking SpyreX why he thinks im innocent, because i hadnt claimed or revealed my "breadcrumbs" at the time but doubt the "legitamacy" of them? *confused*

I think your breadcrumbs are a joke. I (mostly) believe the claim.

Besides, now that you've claimed + revealed your crumbs, it makes no sense to pursue him because regardless of his alignment, he can just point to the crumbs and claim hansel (or gretel).

[cruelty]

Didn't preview + watching champion's league replay (fkin bayern) = longer than 12 minutes to make the post.

[cruelty]

I'm just vt.

I don't really understand why you're clearing Hoopla for derailing a page 3 wagon.

[cruelty]

vote: hoopla

Still not convinced (as per my post yesterday) and I don't at all like Spyrex's reason for clearing her. Page 3 wagon derailments do not an innocent make at all, especially in the absence of serious suspicion for the rest of the day.

Also, this:

The only other possibility I can think of is Spyre taking advantage of a roleclaim that he can get a solid fakeclaim in on, but again, this is also very unlikely, because he wouldn't know if there are other doc roles to contradict him.

I didn't see the crumb so I assumed NORMAL doc and well.

If he assumed normal doc, then it's reasonable (per your above quote) to suspect his claim isn't legit (as why would town have more than one normal doc?). Seems odd to me that you let this slide.

I'm not actually that suspicious of Spyrex, I'm not a huge fan of his letting Hoopla slide for something that in my eyes isn't really significant at all (I'd consider her pushing Budja's wagon over a confirmed townie to be less noteworthy than her almost complete lack of offence throughout the entire game) but I think the villain in this weird dynamic the two of them have got going on is Hoopla.

I also think the claim thing is a little odd but I guess we'll see what happens there. I don't really see the point of breadcrumbing when there's only two players left to claim (and statistically I'd expect them to likely be vt given we've had 3 power roles + one [Hoopla] presumed).

[cruelty]

What

you

are is irrelevant.

[cruelty]

This isn't about you, therefore what you actually are isn't relevant. What Hoopla thinks you are is.


Hoopla says it's unlikely you'd claim macho doc because you were unaware of other doc roles (therefore you're not taking advantage of a roleclaim to fakeclaim, and must be town).

You say you thought SW was normal doc (which in my mind means the likelihood of there being other protective roles = close enough to zero to be negligible.



If you thought SW was normal doc, then there's every likelihood you're taking advantage of her claim (because why would there be other docs?) to support your fakeclaim (as Hoopla is worried about). Whether you are or not is irrelevant (to this particular point), the fact that she hasn't pursued it is what concerns me.

[cruelty]

I'm voting scum.

And yeah, re-reading that in the light of day (and the grip of a hangover), it doesn't make a heap of sense.

[cruelty]

5 power roles in a 12 player game seems like a lot to me...

I feel it likely I am the last PR

What do you think about Hoopla's claim?


Don't have time to talk about anything else, I have to work (on a holiday, sigh, but time and a half, yeah!).

[cruelty]

It's interesting watching the votes stack up on me, when WoW is barely even present, let alone contributing. Seems convenient..

When you have time, why don't you tell us what you think of all the claims?

Have no reason to disbelieve Spyrex/SW.

Unsure about Budja, his rolename seems out of line when compared with a gunsmith, macho doctor(s) and fbi agent.

I don't really like your claim a whole lot, but then I think I'm biased in that I already thought (think) that you're scum. I also tend to agree with Cue that your investigation of S7 was contradictory, something I had initially missed (good catch btw).

You're suspicious of me because I didn't pick up on a detail that you deem irrelevant?

No.. I'm suspicious of you because of.. well, I said why in day 1. My iso 24. You

still

haven't voted with any solid scumreads; you're not actually scumhunting, you're playing the numbers game and hoping something falls out. I really, really dislike this - there's no analysis of posts, there's no offence, there's just you trying to take control of town and make sure that we do what you want us to do. Yeah, the logic of what you're proposing is fairly solid, but it's also a nice way for scum to get rid of an innocent (then tomorrow it's oops, must be the other one!), whilst having a good grasp on who is doing what tonight. dislike.

(Also there's still no conviction or reason in your votes [why the f am I being voted for over the notably absent WoW? you moved to me for no real reason, this is very similar to what happened towards the end of day 1], they're not based on any sort of scumread (relates to above) but instead seem almost entirely random, as long as they fit within the sequence of events that you've laid out for the rest of us.

As for the above quote, my issue is (however badly articulated) that there's a loophole that given your previous stance, you should have addressed and investigated. I don't think that you did, which I think is out of character. What Spyrex is is irrelevant, what I think of him is irrelevant, the issue is that he said he assumed sw was normal doc (prior to his claim of m-doc) which would mean that the likelihood of other docs = minimal = m-doc becomes valid claim = possibility of fakeclaim. I fucking SWEAR it makes sense, maybe my brain is operating at too high a power level.

i recall entering this game and pouring out some serious posts

Yeah that's true, an indepth analysis of my rvs which ultimately came to nothing, then you tunneled on me for a little, discovered it wasn't gonna happen, jumped to sw with no result, then finally jumped onto sidekick and hammered with no explanation/reasoning whatsoever.

This (jumping to whatever wagon was going to the finish line) + the MAD PROPS you received from hoopla ("Don has really lit up the Iceman slot with the townie goodness") = two strongest (and entwined, imo) scumreads.

DJ is also possible, but I think he is less likely than cruelty and Wings - this is more a gut read on Ice's and DJ's individual play though.

yayaya of course.

[cruelty]

it genuinely angers me (inasmuch as i allow the internet to fuel my rage) that i am running a very real risk of being lynched without actually doing anything i'd consider atypically scummy (allowing for the possibility that my play is by nature slightly scummier than the norm).


as far as i can tell, given the claims (and subsequent dismissal of the case about me not being on the ds wagon), the best case levelled against me is that i had an omgusy rvs vote. and that's a pathetic joke of a reason.


and what REALLY fucking riles me is the fact that for some reason i'm the target of the 'hehe we got 3 vts let's lynch one' play when wow is basically absent from the game (one "i'll post later" post today), dj is far from cleared (and really has done nothing other than tunnel me and randomly vote) and the best we can say about sotty is that a (possible) fbi agent has cleared her from being a role which may (or may not) be in the game.

i'm fuming and my power level is rising

[cruelty]

nah, i'm not scum. i'm just aggravated that there's a wagon building for NO reason when there's (imo) much more viable suspects.

i mean if there's a decent case on me then ok, i can vibe with that, but i feel like town is being manipulated by 1 or 2 players who are being giving a tonne more respect than they deserve (specifically hoopla, i have the vilest gut read) and i'm frustrated that there's this general apathy to just go along with whatever is suggested.

[it doesn't help that the claimed prs appear to be blindly accepting each others claims and that only one person besides me (cue) is even trying to look a little deeper]

[cruelty]

still doesn't explain why you're voting me. hell, you're not even looking at your pool of vt suspects, you're focusing (yawn) on claimed prs.

i need to stop posting before going to work, but i am very underwhelmed by the above, i don't think it delvers on it's first line promise at all and i don't think it's helpful in ANY way as to deciding what to do today.

[cruelty]

vote hoopla

thought i already was.

added to votecount

[cruelty]

Snow's mad at me because I called her breadcrumbing a joke (which it was) and don's fuming because I had the audacity to laugh at his attack on my RVS. It's not as though you have a bunch of people with overwhelming cases on me, you have two people who have good

personal

reasons to want me gone, and you're chucking your vote in with them because, well, it's good to have buddies. Oh, I mean, you're presenting a consolidated town in the face of the dangerous scum threat that I pose.


Since we've established that you don't have a scumread on me (if you did I'd like to think that you'd mention it at some point) then I'm trying to work out why you'd endorse removing an active player (regardless of alignment) over a non-contributing lurker. Surely it's a smarter play to remove a lurker - especially when that lynch will also fit perfectly into your masterplan?

Wings is lurking, which I don't like, but I feel similarly to SpyreX in regards to cruelty's 485.

WingsOWisdom (1) - Budja,

Spyrex

He must feel pretty damn strongly about it. You two must be quite tight buddies huh. Or at least, you'd like to be.

[cruelty]

ah yes, 485, the post that people are lining up to shoot me over.

i mean i think we can be relatively certain that WoW (or her replacement) will come steaming in and use it as a reason to get me lynched, but most everyone else (bar sean) is active and tbh, it doesn't seem to be that much of a deal breaker.


and honestly, if that's all you have (and it seems to be, you're not exactly presenting an ironclad case here) - an expression of frustration that there's a distinct possibility i get lynched without even getting to really play the game [imo the game starts for real at day 2] and without a case on me, then it doesn't bode well for town if everyone else continues to passively sit by and let you drag them around.

Also, by process of elimination it means you each have very good individual chances of being scum, better than even I would say. If that is true, cases of town value are second to cases of scum value, because there is a higher chance of you being aligned with scum

uhh what?

we have equal chances of being scum, but you're... wait what??

value as town or scum is irrelevant when one of the two players in question isn't actually playing AND as you have admitted, all things are equal.

Before your post in 485, it would have held a lot more weight.

back to this.

you've been after me (WITHOUT a scumread) since just before the end of day one based on what

other players

are doing/saying. there isn't a single instance of original cruelty-is-scum thought coming from you UNTIL my 485, which you're now all over. opportunism at it's finest.

your attack on 485 would (ironically) hold a lot more weight if it was backed up by a pre-existing case, which, uhh, it's not. it's not even backed up by

suspicion

, merely a logical deduction based on the possibly flawed premise that all our PRs are for real and the votes of other players, one of which isn't even cleared (and whose original slot was under very heavy fire for being scummy early in the day).

i mean i don't get it, you're tunneled on me but in a bizarre twist of events you're not suspicious of me until i get aggravated that i'm fairly likely to end up a sacrificial lamb to either a misguided town or a puppet master. then all of a sudden it's like someone supplied you with ammo and.. what? you waffle on about something to do with equality, alignment and.. yeah i dunno. a bunch of junk that doesn't really mean anything other than you wanting to underline your dramatically and suddenly realised point (that i'm scummy because i'm frustrated).



ps: can someone else start posting, i feel like this back and forth isn't really getting anywhere, and i'd love for people to start actually talking so that if i -do- have to play the martyr, there's some discussion to analyse tomorrow (bc honestly i'm not putting a lot of faith in the pr brigade).

[cruelty]

eh?

you're an unverifiable role (odds are fbi agent will show a gun, we don't have a cop to clear you and there's zero evidence of an sk thus far) + budja's a role that i've never heard of. i don't really think it's hugely implausible that you're both lying.


how about you give me a scenario where i'm plausibly scummy that isn't founded on a) someone else's votes and b) a post that post-dates your desire to lynch me? i've been asking since.. well, since your original vote on me at the end of day one.


(btw it's awesome that you're ignoring like 95% of what i'm saying)

[cruelty]

Cue, Hoopla has to push a lynch of either myself or WoW because her entire plan is founded on her own innocence by way of Quantico.

I really expected one of a.) rage against the machine post, b.) I'm soo sorry guys or c.) a vote for cruelty under the "its not me clause"

What conclusion are you drawing? Not really a big fan of "expected a, got b... well, cya later".

just for shits and giggles, can someone tell me why there is all this talk about a possible sk?

Can you explain to me how you missed hoopla's claim and the subsequent numerous discussions regarding night actions/people being cleared etc?

don's fuming

^^ misrep.

It's pretty obvious that I wasn't being entirely serious (pointing out the absurdity of Hoopla's assertion that her vote in me is in part influenced by her small town bookgroup). It's nice that you're pointing it out though, it cleverly backs up your well-reasoned vote on me (btw I'm also not really serious about your case).

[cruelty]

eh? Wings posted..

[cruelty]

We (or at least I) am no implying one of Wings, cruelty must be scum. Wings/cruelty have the highest probability of being scum PR. We want to take out any scum PR which can interfere with town PR's.

why highest probability of scum

pr

?

i understand that your (towns) complex system of night results based on a precarious sense of trust in other players makes it likely that there's scum within the claimed vts, but i don't understand why we're more likely to be a pr.

[cruelty]

seems like fairly unnecessary conjecture..

[cruelty]

this game...

very rarely been this frustrated. i did literally nothing to get into the situation i was in and i KNEW hoopla was scum, but there was nothing i could do about it with town believing both scum claims. seriously toyed with throwing a fit and quitting the site over this.