Mini 275: Subject Mafia - It's all over!

[petroleumjelly]

Randomizer says 10.

Vote: Sotty7

[petroleumjelly]

Well, we're clearly past the random voting stage, so I will

Unvote: Sotty7

. And as to the question as to who I would vote if I had gotten a six: it would have been myself. I've seen people do that before.

In any case, I agree: a random vote only gets the game started. I could have used a randomizer and not told you, and I still would voted for Sotty7. Alternatively, I could be purposely voting Sotty7 under the guise of a randomized vote. Although I don't believe I have read this much conversation on a randomized vote before, it seems like it got some discussion going anyways. As discussion is a large purpose to random votes, I find nothing wrong with a "randomized" vote.

[petroleumjelly]

In response to Turbovolver:

In the post that you found where I was "too agreebale" I was responding to the idea that "randomized" voting is weird. I of course was not "hunting scum" at that point, because I was instead defending my actions, and approving of the discussion that it created. I was (and am not) suspicious of those people who said that my randomized vote was weird, so I had no reason to go about pointing fingers on Page 1.

Seems discussion has veered off into reasons behind random voting and FoSing and what those actions could potentially mean, which also does not "hunt scum".

I agree we seem to be moving pretty slowly, so

Vote: Turbovolver

. You seem a little trigger-happy there, and you have pre-empted that sort of behavior by saying that you will "change your vote, a lot" on Day 1, as if you are excusing yourself from future bandwagoning. Not much to go off of, but you may as well address it.

[petroleumjelly]

All right. I don't necessarily agree with the percentages above, but I almost

never

like it when I hear such phrases as "One of these people is probably scum", "If one is scum, the other is probably scum", or "If it turns out X is telilng the truth, we lynch Y". I may just be paranoid of scum setting up double lynches, but I usually do not put very much weight into those types of statements, and I try to avoid them unless I genuinely feel it to be true.

Mostly in this case, I am not willing to say either of you are scummy. I have re-read your exchange a couple times, and both of you are coming off feeling clean to me. As such, that warrants an

Unvote: Turbovolver

. And what's this talk about claiming? S'far as I'm concerned, this game just started, and nobody is even close to being in danger of a lynch. Claims should only come as last resorts, unless they are very helpful to the town.

Although I will note that I have the feeling that Turbovolver was trying a little trap with his question he posed to the town. I am fairly sure that if anybody would have actually agreed to the statement "one of them is probably scum" would have come under heavy attack.

Really, I do not agree with such tactics, but I will admit that seems to be my slowest moving game here, and something needs to be done.

Doing so, then, I will

Vote: Pablito

. There may or not be actual reasoning behind this vote.

Note: There seems to have been a Post submitted before I submitted this. Is Turbo so close to a lynch that it is necessary to claim at this point?

[petroleumjelly]

Can we get Votecount, please?

And where is Miali?

[petroleumjelly]

All right, checking in. There seems to be a common sentiment in this game that we're not going anywhere (and I admit, it certainly feels like that).

So, I'll try to get some new discussion going.

What does everybody think about last night? Nobody died. And yet nobody has commented on it.

Very likely, we are dealing with a successful Doc protect or a successful Role-Blocking. It would seem that we only have one killing group (since I doubt we could get lucky twice on the same night, unless there is a SK who has declined to act on Night 1).

[petroleumjelly]

We will start with Night, please do the things you do during the night if you have them to do...

I didn't even notice it started with a normal night. Well, I knew it was night, and we had a morning scene and all, but the last few games I have been in did the cop head start night 0 kind of thing.

I find that hard to believe, Jimmy. I will probably come under some sort of attack for mentioning this, but what that quote tells me is:

A.) You are scum "pretending" that you didn't realize the game began with a Night 1, so as to strenghten your image of innocence, or:
B.) You do not have a pro-town night action (which you shouldn't be telling scum), or:
C.) You

do

have a pro-town night action, but you were attempting to act as if you didn't (which is still poor play in my opinion, since I at least will be less likely to believe you later in the game after that comment), or:
D.) You

do

have a pro-town night action, but honestly didn't realize that you could have used it Night 1.

I think is worthy of an

Unvote: Whoever I was voting, if anybody

and a

Vote: Jimmy the Rez

, until you explain yourself.

[petroleumjelly]

He hasn't claimed to not have a pro-town powerrole, he said he thought that it was a cop head start night and not a full night due to the fact that there was no kills. So I recommend you keep your vote because you think it's suspicious he mentioned the night at all (trying to sound less like scum) or unvote.

Yes, Jimmy the Rez did

say

that he believed we began with only Cop actions. What I am saying is that even if he is telling the truth,

he should not have said that

. If Jimmy thinks only the Cop had actions last night but that he did not take any actions, Jimmy has then basically claimed "not-cop", which is

not helpful to the town.

Further, he had already agreed with me that we have had a successful Doctor protection or Role-blocking last night. And

then

he goes on to say that he thought

only the Cop

had any actions. Not only is that contradictory, but he is now also claiming "not-Doctor" and "not-Role-Blocker".

Do you see what I mean? His statement was only helpful to the scum, if he is pro-town. And since I do not consider it pro-town play to narrow down choices for scum, my first reaction was that

he

is scum trying to act as if he never did anything last night, hence my vote on him.

Thanks for having me spell that out.

And to address Jimmy, yes, I naturally ask people to explain themselves when I believe I have caught them doing something I believe to be silly. Simply because I put four options on the table does not mean there isn't a fifth reason I haven't thought of. I much prefer giving people opportunities to explain themselves over accusing them without allowing or asking for a rebuttal.

What do you think of the current bandwagons?

What bandwagons? The biggest "bandwagon" we seem to have had is about three votes (not even half a majority).

Regardless, the only bandwagon I was on was yours, Turbovolver, and I was fine with that one. Seeing as I have not hopped on any others, it should be pretty clear that I haven't found one that has sufficient substance for me to climb on board as of yet.

[petroleumjelly]

Alright, well

Unvote: Jimmy the Rez

. I see how he never claimed "Not-Cop" (which is good), but he

seems

to have indirectly claimed "Not-Doc" and "Not-RoleBlocker". I am not asking for Jimmy to confirm whether or not either of those statements are true, however: all I am saying is that I will be less likely to believe such a claim should he make one later. I can perfectly see how Sineish might interpret that I was "fishing", but that was not the case.

Also, my vote was on Jimmy not because I believe he made a poor play: my vote was on him because my initial reaction was that he was acting "innocent" by "not taking actions" Night 1, which struck me as a subtle way of implying the message "I'm not scum, or else I would have known I had Night 1 actions". I simply laid out the other options so he could see what my thought process was, and why I found him worthy of a vote.

[petroleumjelly]

Analysis:

His IMHO weird defence of his random vote is understandable considering the discussion about random votes that was happening at the time, and that Turbo jumped on it, but I find the wording of the post strange. His vote for Turbo later on was understandabe, and his vote for Pablito was in no way scummy, but I would like to hear his reasons. I also disagree with Ranger's analysis and understand why he would find Jimmy's post suspicious, and I don't think he was "fishing" for a claim. I do on the other hand find his obsession with pre-emptive defences a bit strange, isolated I would say that it was very scummy, but the phrase in the defence of his randomized vote "Alternatively, I could be purposely voting Sotty7 under the guise of a randomized vote." actually makes it look like that's just the way he thinks. The only thing that could be said is that it's over-analytical in a reaching way, wich is a scum-tell. But that argument in itself could be considered over-analytical in a reaching way Very Happy , so it basically becomes a WIFOM argument.

Conclusion:

3 of 10 on my scum-o-meter.

All right, let's see what I can address.

My "defense" of my randomized vote was pretty much just meant as an explanation to Turbo as to why I chose my method of showing how I came about my random vote. It also showed how I agreed with Stewie that it is possible to call a vote "random" when in actuality is not (hence my "I may be voting under the guise of a randomized vote" comment).

My vote for Pablito was on weak evidence: the fact that he unvoted Quailman "because he didn't look scummy" seemed off to me, since Quailman had hardly posted at all. To me, it looked like Pablito was voting Quailman simply so that he could unvote him, while subtly saying that "Quailman is not scummy". The game looked like it was stagnating at that point, and I was hoping to get a reaction from Pablito (which never happened, but oh well). I was trying to branch off into new discussion, for the most part.

My vote on Jimmy I believe I have explained: it looked to me like Jimmy was trying to claim that he could not be scum because he otherwise would have taken note that there were Night Actions. I can

perfectly

see how that looks like I am fishing for a claim, so I do not find people who said that's what it looked like I was doing suspicious whatsoever.

And yes, my vote on Turbo for "preempting excuses for bandwagoning" I still believe is justified. Assuming that comment had gone by unaddressed, then if we caught him bandwagon-hopping later, he could just point back to that sentence and "absolve" himself by telling us that "he had warned us". I am always overly paranoid (which is probably not a bad thing in Mafia), so I wanted to stop such a tactic before it could be executed.

Thanks for that analysis Don: I'll admit I haven't been paying as much attention to this game as the other games that I am currently in, so a summarizing post like that was helpful to keep me on track. I'll wait to hear responses from others on your analysis before placing a vote for now.

[petroleumjelly]

Okies, I will make my own attempt at giving my own List of Suspicion (LoS)… I try to save these types of lists until there are only 6 or less other players (easier analysis), but as it seems to be the cool thing to do this game… I will not include everything here, just bare bones to get my thoughts across.

Everybody starts off at a 50% rating for me. If you a below 35%, that means I am finding you very pro-town. A 10% and below (nobody here is, it takes longer in the game to drop down that far, for the most part) are players that have been confirmed or I cannot easily imagine to be scum. Anything from 35-75% means I have healthy skepticism. 75-90% means you are seriously not looking good to me, and 90%+ means I am almost positive you are scum. With that:

cropcircles

The only thing that sticks out with me for cropcircles is his conversation with Turbo earlier in the game, and asking Turbo to claim when he only had three votes on him. A bit hasty, but I am still inclined to believe that both CC and Turbo were bickering townies for the time being. I assume he was trying to be humorous when he voted for Kenji twice. Although I agree that he should explain the “tell” he found on Stewie.

60% (Healthy skepticism)

Don Gaetano

Being one of the first to have given a large analysis of the game (on practically everything that had happened up until his post), I am inclined to believe he is pro-town. He responded to Turbo’s question (of whether we believed one of CC or Turbo were scum) satisfactorily, rather than trying to take advantage of the question. His asking for a claim from SnowMonkey is completely justified I believe, and he has made his case against him very well.

Scum Chance: 30% (Looking Pro-Town)

Jimmy the Rez

I still didn’t like our exchange (the “I didn’t realize we started with Night Actions” one), but I am willing to put it in the back of my mind for now. He was the original person to vote Miali (now SnowMonkey), and pretty much returned his vote back after our quarrel. He hasn’t really done anything to make him look especially pro-town, so he only moves up from the original 50% slightly.

55% (Healthy Skepticism)

snowmonkey

Although I haven’t played too many games here myself, I never quite know what to think of players who are relatively new. I wonder if his constant mentioning of the adjective “wolfier” could mean something. If the scum in this game turn out to be Werewolves instead of Mafia, and if SnowMonkey is still alive by that point, I know exactly where my vote will go. It might just be that Snowmonkey played Werewolves instead of Mafia originally, and so had not caught on to MafiaScum terminology just yet (although this is doubtful, since he has already mentioned OMGUS).

The one thing working in Snowmonkey’s favor is the fact that he has breadcrumbed his role while being a

replacement

in this game. It seems less likely to me that a replacement scum would work on a false role-claim without first being able to confer with scum-buddies. I don’t know how much if any communication Kenji would allow replacement scum to have.

The unwillingness to claim does seem a bit off: although I can understand the sentiment, the way in which SnowMonkey is avoiding claiming is not the right way to go.

75% (Not Looking Good)

pablito

The voting and unvoting of Quailman early on still looks mechanical to me. I find it odd that concerning the argument against CC and Turbo, he mentioned that “both have valid points” twice, but later said that “CC and Turbo are both on his scumdar”. However, his correction of my original thoughts on Jimmy were solid, and he does not seem to attempt riding on votes (but unvotes when people are looking fine… which is why I have grown less suspicious of the Quailman issue). I am also confused by the line “everyone is pretty much linked to me, these days”.

65% (Healthy Skepticism)

Quailman

His reason for voting Turbovolver early in the thread (“I wonder what will happen if he gets more”) did not strike me as pro-town. His unexplained following for the voting of Sineish was odd. And he is apparently gone until Sunday. His lack of posts and lack of content does nothing to make me less suspicious of him.

75% (Not Looking Good)

RangeroftheNorth

He came into the thread late, and explained his absence just fine. His response to being “defensive” (which I do not agree with) was also fine. His analysis of others’ play looks fine to me, and he has addressed everything against him satisfactorily while making good points on other players.

35% (Slight Skepticism)

Sineish

Three posts (one a random vote) are hard to put a read on. Finding the “misleading links” suspicious does not strike me as pro or anti-town one way or the other, and pointing out that it appeared like I was “fishing” for a semi-claim from Jimmy is perfectly understandable. Only slightly above the starting percentage for what seems to be lurking. Sineish is the most subject person to change at the moment.

60% (Healthy Skepticism)

Sotty7

The first thing that came to mind for Sotty was her constant happiness (“Thanks!” and asking the Mod for prods and votecounts), which I have forced myself to classify as neutral. For most of the game, Sotty has focused mainly on those players who

are not

posting in the thread, rather than those who were: which does strike me as slightly anti-town. Since then, Sotty has been one of the advocates on voting for Snowmonkey, although her insistence on mentioning the “retaliatory” vote is getting tiresome. If I weren’t so lazy, I would count how many times Sotty has used the word retaliatory in her posts.

65% (Healthy Skepticism)

Stewie

The discussion about random votes in the beginning of the game was spot-on for me. Trying to get discussion going by voting for me (!) was also fine, I was feeling the same way (that the game was going slowly, although it has certainly picked up now). It looks to me that Stewie was (and maybe still is) of the opinion that Day 1 will not give us super-solid grounds for a lynching, so his “sticking to a half-assed reason” didn’t bother me, since that’s usually what kind of reasoning there is for a Day 1 lynch anyways. His explanation post explained his actions fairly well, even if it was “all over the board”. He pretty much hasn’t moved up or down, to me.

50% (Healthy Skepticism)

Turbovolver

His early suspicion on me for the randomized vote was fine, although it seemed as if the issue may have blown up larger than it should have. I still didn’t like his pre-emptive “I vote a lot” comment, as previously explained. His bickering with cropcircles just seemed like an unfriendly conversation between townies. I won’t go into specifics (this post is getting bigger than I had hoped), but Turbo does seem to point fingers very quickly (which could be either pro or anti town, I suppose). However, the fact that he gives some reasoning behind each vote gives him some good points. The “RotN links” may have been done purposely on not, they certainly do not help his case. For the most part, he just strikes me as an eager townie.

55% (Healthy Skepticism)

To summarize, my LoS:

SnowMonkey / Quailman (75%) [Not so Good]
Pablito / Sotty7 (65%) [Healthy Skepticism]
CropCircles / Sineish (60%) [Healthy Skepticism]
Jimmy the Rez / Turbovolver (55%) [Healthy Skepticism]
Stewie (50%) [Starting Point – Healthy Skepticism]
Ranger of the North (35%) [Slight Skepticism]
Don Gaetano (30%) [Looking Pro-Town]

[petroleumjelly]

In accordance with my LoS,

Vote: Quailman

. I won't be putting a sixth or seventh vote on SnowMonkey until we have received more information, but for the time being, I might as well give my vote a good home.

Mod

, can we get an official votecount, as well as a prod on Quailman if he doesn't post by the end of today (he said he would be back Sunday)?

[petroleumjelly]

It looks to me that Stewie was (and maybe still is) of the opinion that Day 1 will not give us super-solid grounds for a lynching, so his “sticking to a half-assed reason” didn’t bother me, since that’s usually what kind of reasoning there is for a Day 1 lynch anyways.

What about you, petroleumjelly? Do you think it'd be OK if we lynched on a half-assed reason? That's the impression I get if you are OKing Stewie saying this.

I believe you already know the answer to this. Day Ones often do not give anybody any solid information until later in the game: the town almost always ends up lynching for what I would deem "half-assed reasons" (which makes sense, since I would wager that most Day Ones end with a pro-town lynch, which must build on the false premise that they are scum). I don't find Stewie suspicious for saying what is generally true.

To answer your question, though, I would obviously prefer a lynch with some good reasoning behind it as opposed to one with little to no reasoning. Chances are, we are going to lynch somebody based on less than perfect reasoning.

In case I haven't said as much in this thread:

I will have little to no access to a computer from February 9-12 (Thursday to Sunday) due to Mock Trial competitions.

[petroleumjelly]

Ugh. Is it possible for our

Mod

to slightly edit these posts so we don't have to try and scroll two ways while reading (shortening the lines)? This is getting silly.

[petroleumjelly]

Blatant defense of Stewie (to hopefully stop this silly back-and-forth arguing):

I might go through and check all of your reponses, I might not.

This is not pro-town behavior. This is what I call "selective attention", or "tunnel vision". You only look at what goes into your theory of Stewie as scum, but disregard that which is inconsistent. Sometimes it helps to read responses to what you have to say.

All you've shown by going on this little "claim crusade" is that you are desparate to avoid answering players' suspicions against you, if you ask me. This is one argument I've been in that *I* can recognise as stupid before it's been pointed out

So Stewie has given responses (see quote above), but is desperate to avoid answering players' suspicions? I believe Stewie has answered you quite consistently, and thoroughly. I do not keep track of every word said in this thread, but I am beginning to think your insistence on Stewie is becoming a smoke screen for scum to hide behind.

Also, if you know the argument you are in is "stupid",

why

are you pursuing it?

What, you've never seen a townie make a mistake before?
Ridiculous.

A few questions then:
1.) Has Stewie done anything you would classify as "a mistake"?
2.) If he has, why are you not considering that he is a

townie

who made a mistake? I believe you said a while ago that "Stewie is going down". Is there something in particular that makes you so confident he is scum?

I am personally growing tired of having to read the constant banter between yourself and Stewie. It may serve it's purpose later in the game, but I think we need to make a change in direction.

Snowmonkey seems to be in the "no-claim" club, but he has stayed consistently at 5 votes (although I have shown willingness to add a vote, I still will not place a sixth vote for the time being). I agree that Snowmonkey is under such pressure that if he continues in his refusal to claim, I would feel no shame in moving my vote to him.

From what I remember, both Quailman and Sineish seem to have been forgotten in this game. My vote is already on Quailman: I think we need to pressure them both into coming back to this game. Fresh eyes bring fresh perspectives.

Mod

, if it has not already been done, could we give prods to those players who have not been posting?

And a friendly reminder: I will have little to no access beginning later today until Sunday evening (February 12). If I need to be replaced, I apologize for the inconvenience, but I would rather finish games that I sign up to play.

Sorry for the double request, but

Mod

, if you set a deadline, would be please be sure to allow me a sufficient chance to re-read by the time I return?

[petroleumjelly]

Oh my, yes, Turbo: I am so linked to Stewie that I opened my post with the phrase:

Blatant defense of Stewie

(to hopefully stop this silly back-and-forth arguing)

I think you have been stretching in your arguments: anybody who disagrees with you (i.e.

ME

) comes under your suspicions. Not everybody is going to agree with you: I did not interpret Stewie's posts the same way you have.

Also, my suspicions on Quailman is not only "lurker hunting". As I have previously mentioned:

His reason for voting Turbovolver early in the thread (“I wonder what will happen if he gets more”) did not strike me as pro-town. His unexplained following for the voting of Sineish was odd. And he is apparently gone until Sunday. His lack of posts and lack of content does nothing to make me less suspicious of him.

His only actions just so happen to be suspect. He said he would post here by Sunday, and yet he has not. My vote will be staying on him.

Further, I think you are making convenient links now. As of late, you have been saying that you think Sotty7 and Stewie were scum partners: now you have switched it to being myself and Stewie. Just because I don't find somebody as suspicious as you do does not make me scum. I already posted my explanations for where everybody stands in my eyes for this game: perhaps you should go back and read it so you understand where I'm coming from.

In my eyes, you are wasting time when you could be pressuring other people. I am sure I am not alone in this sentiment.

[petroleumjelly]

I think it should be noted that the following players have been around since the thread re-opened but have declined to post here:

petroleumjelly
Sotty7
RangeroftheNorth

Oh no, I must be scum. Just checking into this game (as I just now realized the game has opened), I'm going to have to do a full re-read now that we have two confirmed (albeit deceased) innocents. I'll probably give a more substantive post by Saturday.

[petroleumjelly]

Funnily enough when I did make that comment two people I fingered showed up in a matter of hours. What are the chances two people I already consider scummy both didn't realise the game was reopened but did just after someone pointed out their absence?

I dunno... how about

really good

?

The first post when this game reopened (made by you) was at 4:16 PM, Thursday. My post was at 11:20 PM, Thursday.

Of course

my first post is going to be within a matter of hours within yours. The access I had during the day (where I believe I made a couple moves in my chess game) was done on a school computer: I did not have time to re-read all of my Mafia games, but I did have time to look the current chess position. I got home around 8:00 PM (which is 11:00 PM Scum time), skimmed my current games, and posted where I felt necessary.

Again, it looks to me like you are trying to make something out of nothing.

And before you go ranting that I answered you so quickly now, it is because I have constant access from 8:00 to 1:00 (11:00 PM - 4:00 AM) at my dorm, and I check back here about twice on the hour unless I am preoccupied.

[petroleumjelly]

For crying out loud. Click on my name, and click "recent posts", and look at the times.

I posted here at 11:20 PM, Thursday (8:20 PM for me).

You posted here (effectively "opening" the thread) at 4:16 PM, Thursday (1:16 PM for me).

All of my game posts before that were (in order of most recent):

- 12:20 PM, Thursday (9:20

AM

for me) in Mini Mormon Town Mafia
- 12:09 PM, Thursday (9:09

AM

for me) in Newbie 166
- 2:40 AM, Thursday (11:40, Wednesday for me) in Mini ScumChat Mafia

Between my times of 9:20 Thursday morning and 8:20 Thursday evening (a difference of eleven hours),

I did not post in a Mafia game

.

I did, however, post in

non-Mafia games

, as I have already mentioned. This was when I had intermittent internet access during the day, which consisted of about 10 minutes of access. For the record, those times were:

- 7:44 (and 7:43) PM, Thursday (4:44 PM for me) in the Spoil a Wish Game
- 7:37 PM, Thursday (4:37 PM for me) in my chess game against Akonas

When a game comes out of Night (such as this game) I like to do full re-reads before I post my thoughts. All of my other games are

fresh in my mind

since there has not been a night to interrupt them lately, so I only need to

skim

those games, whereas this one merits a full

re-read

.

Do your homework before you make claims against me next time, Turbovolver.

For the record, I don't really care what the chances of both Sotty7 and myself replying to you are: I had not intended to post in this thread before my re-read (other than a standard "I'm here" post), but I thought your unfounded suspicion of me ought to be addressed before it becomes something larger than it needs to be.

[petroleumjelly]

I've been in some stupid arguments, but this one is about to take the cake.

1.) I don't care when the Mod opened the thread. I don't notice these types of things unless I specifically look for them, and I was not looking for this thread to be open when I woke up Thursday morning thinking about classes. I skimmed the games that I knew were already going, posted in those games, and then got ready and left for school.

2.) I didn't explain my reasons for not posting when a thread is initially opened because I didn't even

think it was necessary

. This argument is stupid, and I do not need a justification for when and why I choose to post: I posted in this game when I did because that was the first time a realized this game was open. End of story.

3.) I have not "changed my story" in the least. Since the thread practically

JUST OPENED

, I find the chances that two people will post within hours of that opening

very good

: when I posted, that was the first time I had realized the thread had been open, and the same seems to go for Sotty7. But since I personally

DO NOT CARE

one way or the other as to the chances of such happening, once again, I did not find it necessary to mention this a second time.

I will politely ask you to stop this argument once more. Once again, you are wasting your breath on a silly argument that I am positive only you care about. I am tired and I am not amused that I have keep responding to you on this subject.

[petroleumjelly]

Do your homework before you make claims against me next time, Turbovolver.

For the record, I don't really care what the chances of both Sotty7 and myself replying to you are: I had not intended to post in this thread before my re-read (other than a standard "I'm here" post), but I thought your unfounded suspicion of me ought to be addressed before it becomes something larger than it needs to be.

Implicitly I was telling you here to stop making your argument because I knew it would not go anywhere.

As for ill-will, I understand that this is a Mafia game, so I do not take your attack on me too personally (if I were to say I didn't take it personally at all would be a lie, I seem to have a habit of becoming emotionally attached to games). Chess is not necessary to prove that, although I will of course be up for chess regardless (although I would ask that you allow Akonas and I to finish our current game before commencing a new one).

...even though you're one of the ones who kills at night.

You are supposed to add a " " when you say things like that.

[petroleumjelly]

If you're pro-town Turbo, sacrificing yourself does not help us. Right now I am waiting for everybody to check up on this thread and say what they think.

For now I will

Vote: Pablito

. I voted for him yesterday and never received a response, perhaps I will get one today.

[petroleumjelly]

Unvote yourself, Turbo, the last thing we need today is a quicklynch on you when we could be poking at other people for information.

Speaking of poking, we seriously need a prod on Quailman and Sineish!

[petroleumjelly]

A-ooooooooooga! Long post ahead: Dive, Dive!

I don’t think either Stewie or Sotty7 is scum, first off. But after a very long and agonizing re-read, I do think that Pablito is scum. And if Pablito is scum, my best guess for his scum partners would be Turbovolver (firstly) and Quailman (secondly). I will do a partial PBPA on all the connections between these three players. My best guess is that 2 out of the 3 of them are scum, and maybe all three. I haven’t decided which person to pair with Pablito yet, however, but I’m leaning towards Turbo.

This is a fairly long post, I apologize. To compensate, I made it colorful! Yay!

Day One

-Post 5:

Pablito

comes in to random vote

Quailman

.
-Post 10:

Turbo

FoS’s me for saying I used a randomizer
-Post 13:

Turbo

votes Stewie
-Post 14:

Quailman

draws more attention to my randomizer (with

Turbo

)
-Post 17:

Pablito

FoS’s Cropcircles for voting

Turbo

– Defending

Turbo

-Post 22-23:

Turbo

unFoS’s me, then votes for me for being “agreeable”
-Post 32:

Pablito

unvotes

Quailman

(because he “didn’t see anything scummy”)
-Post 34:

Turbo

FoS’s Cropcircles (17 posts after

Pablito

FoS’d cropcircles)
-Post 48:

Quailman

unvotes me to vote

Turbo

(slightly going against my theory)
-Post 53:

Pablito

says that

Turbo

has not done “anything negligibly scummy”, but fails to mention what he thought of Cropcircles – Defending

Turbo

-Post 54:

Turbo

votes Cropcircles
-Post 55:

Turbo

, instead of FoS’ing

Pablito

, only gives him a “IGMEOY” with a " ", saying

Pablito

may be trying to ingratiate to a townie
-Post 56:

Turbo

agrees with

Pablito

, asks town “one of cropcircles/

Turbo

scum?”, a trap post
-Post 67:

Quailman

shows up with no substance
-Post 71:

Quailman

unvotes

Turbo

to vote Sineish (putting on the third vote)
-Post 77:

Turbo

votes RangeroftheNorth
-Post 78:

Pablito

votes RangeroftheNorth (hmm)
-Post 81:

Pablito

attributes

Turbo's

play as “odd” and not “scummy”, but then seems to dig for a role-claim – Both defends

Turbo

and semi-attacks

Turbo

-Post 82:

Turbo

shows RotN’s posting record thing, fails to attack

Pablito

for “fishing”
-Post 86:

Pablito

says

Turbo

and Cropcircles on scumdar, says

Turbo

gave no “significant tell”
-Post 89:

Turbo

FoS’s Sotty7
-Post 113:

Turbo

FoS’s me, semi-defends Jimmy the Rez
-Post 116:

Pablito

semi-defends Jimmy the Rez
-Post 120:

Turbo

says that

Pablito

is the only one who understand him: or else ingratiating himself with a townie, again. Says that me and Cropcircles best people to look at, and possibly Sineish.
-Post 122:

Turbo

FoS’s Sineish, quotes own “cropcircles/PJ/Sineish” theory again
-Post 125:

Turbo

votes me
-Post 127:

Turbo

, when responding to Snowmonkey, says that one of himself or

Pablito

could explain something or other.
-Post 130:

Pablito

questions Snowmonkey, asks for prod on

Quailman

-Post 146:

Turbo

can’t read Snowmonkey, and FoS’s Sotty7
-Post 148:

Turbo

unvotes me to vote Sotty7
-Post 150:

Turbo

FoS’s me, and FoS’s Stewie
-Post 159:

Pablito

FoS’s Stewie
-Post 160:

Turbo

confirms vote on Sotty7
-Post 162:

Turbo

FoS’s Stewie three times, and draws connections with Sotty7. Talks about

Quailman

slightly, but no FoS
-Post 178-179:

Turbo

gives

Pablito

a positive score (the only one, in fact)! Gives

Quailman

a very bad score, however. Says top suspicions are Stewie, so votes Stewie, others being Sotty7/

Quailman

/Cropcircles.
-Post 182:

Turbo

draws connection with Stewie and

Pablito

.
-Post 191:

Pablito

votes Stewie, next suspicions are Sotty7/Snowmonkey, draws connections between Sotty7 and Stewie. “Everyone is linked to

Pablito

these days”.
-Post 196:

Turbo

fails to talk about the recently mentioned suspicions of

Quailman

. Brings Sotty7 and Stewie together again.
-Post 200:

Turbo

tries to clarify that Snowmonkey it Vanilla Townie. I think is because

Turbo

would rather have lynched a power role than Vanilla Townie (hence defenses of Snowmonkey later)
-Post 201:

Turbo

giant post against Stewie
-Post 208:

Pablito

shows why he thinks Stewie is scummy
-Post 209:

Turbo

gives another post against Stewie, and confirms vote, is “cool” with

Pablito

because they agree on who is scum
-Post 211:

Turbo

tries to trap me
-Post 213:

Turbo

acknowledges the trap, says that

Pablito

will mention it (?)
-Post 217:

Turbo

attacks Stewie

-Post 221:

Turbo

attacks Stewie
-Post 228:

Turbo

attacks Stewie, mentions Sotty7, directs lynch away from Snowmonkey
-Post 234:

Pablito

would rather lynch Stewie, but says it’s okay to lynch Snowmonkey
-Post 240:

Turbo

slightly FoS’s RotN, directing lynch away from Snowmonkey
-Post 249:

Turbo

mentions “safe claims”, directs lynch away from Snowmonkey
-Post 256:

Turbo

attacks me for defending Stewie, and FoS’s me, draws links between Stewie and me. Says “was I the only one suspicious when he voted

Quailman

?”, a subtle defense of

Quailman

.
-Post 259:

Turbo

says it doesn’t look good for Stewie, PetroleumJelly, and Sotty7
-Post 264:

Pablito

says if Snowmonkey is scum to look at “

Quailman

/Sineish”, and then me/

Turbo

/

Pablito

(what?!). Says if Snowmonkey isn’t scum, to look at the five voters, and says his vote on Stewie is fine.
-Post 266:

Pablito

unvotes Stewie, making it clear for him to vote Snowmonkey (so as to attain a majority)
-Post 269:

Turbo

says if Snowmonkey is town, look at Stewie, and if Stewie is scum, to look at me and Sotty7.
-Post 270:

Pablito

places his vote Snowmonkey (the sixth vote)
**Lynch on Snowmonkey
-Post 277:

Turbo

says he is more suspicious of

Quailman

than Sineish (weaking link to

Quailman

)

Day Two

-Post 282:

Turbo

votes

Quailman

, FoS’s Sineish, still suspicious of Stewie, Sotty7, me, and cropcircles, asks if Jimmy’s Mason should come out
-Post 284:

Pablito

votes Sineish for “not being around” (as if Quailman has)
-Post 285:

Turbo

FoS’s cropcircles, and says

Pablito’s

first post “seems townie-ish”
-Post 286:

Turbo

tries to throw suspicion on me, Sotty7, and RotN
-Post 289:

Turbo

attacks me
-Post 291:

Turbo

attacks me
-Post 293:

Turbo

attacks me
-Post 295:

Turbo

backs off, but throws in that “PJ is one who kills at night”
-Post 302:

Turbo

shows a willingness to sacrifice himself if he gets another pro-town player lynched
-Post 306:

Turbo

tries yet another trap post by voting for himself
-Post 311:

Turbo

unvotes

Quailman

and switches to Don Gaetano
-Post 313:

Turbo

tries to throw suspicion on Sotty7 again
-Post 315:

Turbo

tries to draw together Sotty7 and Stewie, and tries to play down suspicion thrown towards himself for linking players (which I think is silly).

*Pants* My goodness, that took a long time. It is worth noting that

Turbo

, in all of his FoS’s, has

never

voted or FoS’d

Pablito

.

Players I am almost positive are pro-town

PetroleumJelly
Stewie (for being attacked by

Pablito

and

Turbo

)
Sotty7 (for being attacked by

Pablito

and

Turbo

)
Sineish (for being attacked by

Pablito

and

Turbo

)
Cropcircles (for being attacked by

Pablito

and

Turbo

)

Players I am unsure about

RangeroftheNorth
Don Gaetano

Players who are likely scum

Turbovolver

Quailman

Players I am almost positive are scum

Pablito

[petroleumjelly]

Hum, maybe I should pull a Turbo now.

I have noticed that both Turbo and Pablito have been around since my last post where I throw some serious accusations at them, and they have yet to comment on it. I'll be lenient since it is the weekend, though.

[petroleumjelly]

All right, since you're here:

Turbo:
-Who are your top 3 picks for scum?
-Who are your top 3 picks for pro-town (not including yourself)?

[petroleumjelly]

I have explained my suspicions on Pablito, but I will condense them down for Turbo.

1.) Pablito began with a random vote on Quailman [5], and later retracted it because "Quailman had not acted scummy"[32]. At that point in time, Quailman had hardly posted at all, so as noted earlier, such a vote and unvote looked mechanical to me.

2.) Pablito just so happens to have a lot of coordination with Turbo this game.
Examples:
*[17/34] Both Pablito and Turbo FoS cropcircles.
*[77/78] Both Pablito and Turbo vote for RangeroftheNorth.
*[113/116] Both Pablito and Turbo semi-defend Jimmy the Rez, which in turn throws suspicion on me.
*[150/159] Both Pablito and Turbo FoS Stewie.
*[179/191] Both Pablito and Turbo votes Stewie, while both showing suspicion on Sotty7.
*[201/209-228/234] Both Pablito and Turbo make cases against Stewie, and show a willingness to lynch Stewie.
*[264/269] Both Pablito and Turbo say that if Snowmonkey turns up town, to look at Stewie, as well as myself.

3.) Pablito has also shown verbal connections with Turbo, and vice versa.
Examples:
*[17] Pablito defends Turbo by chastising Cropcircles.
*[53] Pablito says that Turbo hasn’t done anything “negligibly scummy”, although he should have been talking about both Turbo and Cropcircles, not just Turbo
*[55] Turbo only gives Pablito a “IGMEOY” instead of a FoS or vote, while adding a “ ” . Further says that Pablito seems pro-town, but if he turns up scum, he must have been trying to ingratiate himself with Turbo.
*[56] Turbo agrees with Pablito, and then commences with the trap post.
*[81] Pablito says that Turbo’s play is “odd”, but not “scummy”. Says Turbo looks more like he is “spraying bullets”, and then finished up with that he hopes he did not misrepresent Turbo. Finishes the post by “fishing” at Turbo’s role…
*[82] And Turbo answers Pablito without pointing out Pablito was fishing.
*[86] Pablito says that Turbo and Cropcircles are on his scumdar, but qualifies that statement by adding that Turbo had given “no significant tells”, without pointing out any “significant tells” about Cropcircles.
*[120] Turbovolver says that Pablito is the only one who understands him. Of course, if Pablito is scum, he must have been trying to ingratiate himself.
*[127] Turbovolver tells Snowmonkey that either Turbo/Pablito could answer a question: why nobody else?
*[178-179] Turbovolver gives Pablito

the only positive score

for his suspicious list.
*[282] Turbo practically votes or FoS’s everybody in the game except for Pablito.
*[319] Turbo says that Pablito mentioned one of Turbo’s traps earlier. Last I recall, it was me who pointed them out, not Pablito. Heck, let’s just quote the entire paragraph:

I'm not going to try to deny that pablito and I have been friendly this game, and if he's scum it doesn't look good for me. Thing is, I don't really see why you think he's scum. On my quick read through your long post, I didn't really see much indication of pablito's scumminess, just an argument of us being linked.
My thoughts on pablito is that he is similar to another Don Gaetano... generally agreeable and a "voice of reason"... a good way for scum to play but there's no real slip-ups to investigate that I've seen.
The way he put the second-to-lynch vote on needs looking at - I'll go check that out.

That looks like a pretty blatant defense of Pablito to me.

*[321] Suddenly, when asked top 3 pro-town players, Turbo gives me:
A.) Sineish (who was FoS’d by Turbo on the first post of D2)
B.) Don Gaetano (who was just recently voted by Turbo this D2)
C.) RangeroftheNorth / Pablito (who just yesterday had the most pro-town score according to Turbo, and now has suddenly dropped to a difficult tie for third even though Turbo has never voted or FoS’d Pablito, nor has shown

any

real suspicion towards Pablito until I drew a connection between Pablito and Turbovolver).

4.) [270] Pablito had to find an excuse to put his vote onto Snowmonkey. First unvoted Stewie, “slept on it”, and placed the sixth vote on Snowmonkey, even though he had earlier defended Snowmonkey as likely being a Vanilla Townie.

5.) [264] Even though Pablito voted for Snowmonkey, he asked that we look at the first five voters on Snowmonkey if Snowmonkey turned up pro-town. For the record, those five players were:
-RangeroftheNorth
-Stewie
-Sotty7
-Don Gaetano
-Jimmy the Rez (confirmed Mason)

Funnily enough, neither Turbovolver, Pablito, nor Quailman happened to be within those five players.

6.) [284] Pablito votes for Sineish for “not being around”. This does not tell anybody where his suspicions lie, and gunning for a lynch on an inactive does not sit well with me. Further, Quailman has not been around either, so selectively choosing Sineish for a vote without consideration of Quailman does not seem pro-town to me either.

It hardly gets better than this. Also, I can easily imagine one of two people being scum with Pablito: Turbovolver and Quailman. I think this is more than enough to indicate his scumminess. I may have a seventh reason to believe he is scummy soon.

[petroleumjelly]

It's possible I may be wrong. What does everybody think about either of the following?

A.) Pablito and Turbovolver as scum
B.) Pablito and Quailman as scum
C.) Pablito and Turbovolver and Quailman as scum

[petroleumjelly]

And actually, I will pick apart the fact that I have not voted for either Stewie or Sotty7 through comparison.

People I have voted for and FoS'd

D1 Random vote: Sotty7 by "randomizer" (I won’t count this one)
D1 Vote

Turbovolver

D1 Vote

Pablito

D1 Vote Jimmy of the Rez
D1 Vote

Quailman

D2 Vote

Pablito

People Turbo has voted for and FoS'd

D1 FoS: PetroleumJelly
D1 Vote Stewie
D1 UnFoS: PetroleumJelly
D1 Vote PetroleumJelly
D1 FoS: Cropcircles
D1 Vote Cropcircles
D1 Vote RangeroftheNorth
D1 FoS: Sotty7
D1 unFoS: Sotty7
D1 FoS: PetroleumJelly
D1 FoS: Sineish
D1 Vote PetroleumJelly
D1 FoS: Sotty7
D1 Vote Sotty7
D1 FoS: PetroleumJelly
D1 FoS: Stewie
D1 FoS: Stewie, FoS: Stewie, FoS: Stewie
D1 Vote: Stewie
D1 "Not Quite" FoS: RangeroftheNorth
D1 FoS: PetroleumJelly
D2 Vote

Quailman

D2 FoS: Sineish
D2 FoS: Cropcircles
D2 Vote: Turbovolver
D2 Vote:

Quailman

D2 Vote: Don Gaetano

In short, people I have not voted or FoS’d include:
-Cropcircles
-Don Gaetano
-RangeroftheNorth
-Sineish
-Sotty7
-Stewie
-PetroleumJelly

And people Turbo has not voted or FoS’d include:
-

Pablito

-Jimmy pf the Rez

Funny thing, that. Heck, Turbo has even voted for himself.

For the record, Turbo, when I said that you had "practically voted or FoS'd everybody" by [282], I wasn't kidding. By that time, the only people you were missing were Pablito, Don Gaetano, and yourself, but you voted for Don Gaetano and yourself quickly enough after that post.

[petroleumjelly]

Whoop, add Snowmonkey to that list, I had him erased in my notes.

For clarification, then:

People I have not voted/FoS'd:
-Cropcircles
-Don Gaetano
-RangeroftheNorth
-Sineish
-Sotty7
-Stewie
-PetroleumJelly
-Snowmonkey

People Turbo has not voted/FoS'd:
-Jimmy of the Rez (dead)
-Snowmonkey (dead)
-

Pablito

[petroleumjelly]

Teehee, your connection towards Pablito is only being strengthened Turbo.

Still waiting for the town's input now.

[petroleumjelly]

Thanks for posting, Pablito.

Now to hear the

town's

input.

[petroleumjelly]

*Yawn*

All right. I don't necessarily agree with the percentages above, but I almost never like it when I hear such phrases as "One of these people is probably scum", "If one is scum, the other is probably scum", or "If it turns out X is telilng the truth, we lynch Y". I may just be paranoid of scum setting up double lynches, but I usually do not put very much weight into those types of statements, and I try to avoid them

unless I genuinely feel it to be true.

I genuinely believe this one to be true.

[petroleumjelly]

Option C?

What I have said is that I am very sure you are scum Pablito. And if you are scum, that:

A.) Turbo is scum with you
B.) Quailman is scum with you
C.) If both A and B are true, then

yes

, Turbo and Quailman are obviously scum with you

What I

genuinely

believe is that Pablito is scum, and by connection, Turbovolver is scum. Also, there is a

good chance

of Quailman being the third scum if A turns out to be true (assuming a regular scum group). This connection is not as "genuine" as the first, but I would like my suspicions known on the off-chance I die in the near future.

[petroleumjelly]

You're very convincing, Turbo.

I suggest people hold on to their votes for the moment, I just want to hear what everybody has to say. This is still the weekend directly after this game opened up, so I am more than willing to wait for input. There is certainly no rush on this Day 2.

[petroleumjelly]

And with that Cropcircles climbs up onto my "very likely innocent" list. This game gets pretty easy when you just use the opposite lists made from somebody else.

[petroleumjelly]

EBWOP: Cropcircles was

already

on my very likely innocent post, good to have confirmation.

[petroleumjelly]

PS: If you are so sure that Pablito and I are scum, you should probably be voting for me. I think there are a lot more people who think I'm scummy than pablito.

My reasons for voting Pablito are obvious: vote Pablito and you will defend him. Now your connection is clearer to the town. Since I can very easily imagine Pablito being scum with either you (Turbo) or Quailman (or both), I could tell by your playstyle that you would try to divert attention away from Pablito if I attacked him,

especially

if I drew connections between the two of you.

PPE: You have a "very-likely innocent" post? You talking about the big analysis on page 8-9?

The bottom of [317] actually. I'll quote it for you:

Players I am almost positive are pro-town

PetroleumJelly
Stewie (for being attacked by

Pablito

and

Turbo

)
Sotty7 (for being attacked by

Pablito

and

Turbo

)
Sineish (for being attacked by

Pablito

and

Turbo

)
Cropcircles (for being attacked by

Pablito

and

Turbo

)

Players I am unsure about

RangeroftheNorth
Don Gaetano

Players who are likely scum

Turbovolver

Quailman

Players I am almost positive are scum

Pablito

As it is, it isn't necessary to "look at cropcircles" today when we already have two heads on the block for the next two days. I may look at him later (assuming I am still alive), but my eyes are firmly on you and Pablito for today.

[petroleumjelly]

As opposed to voting me and having pablito defend me?

No, I doubt Pablito would have defended you. Enough people in the town are willing to lynch you that Pablito would probably be forced to say he wants you lynched as well. This is precisely why I voted for Pablito instead of you.

Perhaps you made a crappy argument deliberately, because you knew I would rip it to pieces and you could accuse me of "defending my scum partner"... whereas it would be unlikely pablito would do the same thing.

I beg to differ. You have not "ripped my argument to pieces" at all: in fact, the only thing you have managed to do is

strengthen

it by this continued argument.

And yes, I did know that you would immediately attack my drawing links to you and Pablito, and through that, defend Pablito. You have tried to (unsuccessfully, I might add) draw links between myself, Stewie, Sotty7, and now Cropcircles, on extremely weak evidence, whereas I have shown at least 15 examples of how you and Pablito are linked, and plays which were scummy on Pablito's behalf.

Still waiting for more townspeople to chime in.

[petroleumjelly]

I will address you more fully once others acknowledge this game's existence Turbovolver. I could very easily do so now, but we are swamping this thread with arguments, and I am becoming worried people will begin overlooking or skimming over them.

Mod

, have you received a reply from either Sineish or Quailman? I understand this is still the weekend, but I would like more opinions from other players.

[petroleumjelly]

PJ – Could you list the reasons as to why you are so sure Pablito is scum without linking him to either Turbo or Quail?

I can do a PBPA on Pablito later if you would like me to Sotty7, but you must understand that a Pablito's scumminess is largely contingent upon that of Turbovolver's, so singling out things Pablito has done without connection to Turbo will be difficult for obvious reasons. I will hold off on that until I hear some more feedback from the town.

[petroleumjelly]

I like how Pablito gets two votes. But I'm just going to stop this argument before it goes any further, because I have already made the point I wanted to make.

Check out my Post 58.

A

ll right. I don't necessarily agree with the percentages above, but I almost never like it when I hear such phrases as "One of these people is probably scum", "If one is scum, the other is probably scum", or "If it turns out X is telilng the truth, we lynch Y". I may just be paranoid of scum setting up double lynches, but I usually do not put very much weight into those types of statements, and I try to avoid them unless I genuinely feel it to be true.

M

ostly in this case, I am not willing to say either of you are scummy. I have re-read your exchange a couple times, and both of you are coming off feeling clean to me. As such, that warrants an

Unvote: Turbovolver

. And what's this talk about claiming? S'far as I'm concerned, this game just started, and nobody is even close to being in danger of a lynch. Claims should only come as last resorts, unless they are very helpful to the town.

A

lthough I will note that I have the feeling that Turbovolver was trying a little trap with his question he posed to the town. I am fairly sure that if anybody would have actually agreed to the statement "one of them is probably scum" would have come under heavy attack.

R

eally, I do not agree with such tactics, but I will admit that seems to be my slowest moving game here, and something needs to be done.

D

oing so, then, I will

Vote: Pablito

. There may or not be actual reasoning behind this vote.

Reading up, you get DRAMA, which is my role. As it so happens, I am a Cop, and I have one guilty result and one innocent result.

I will not reveal my innocent for the time being (for obvious reasons), but my guilty result is on none other than

Pablito

.

Nobody seems to be addressing either of our arguments save for Sotty7 and Stewie, and I was hoping to be able to see who was scum or not depending on whether or not they tried to defend Turbovolver or Pablito, but this game is grating on my nerves and something needs to be done.

Lynch Pablito today. Doctor protect me tonight: I will investigate somebody besides Turbovolver (it would just be a wasted investigation), lynch Turbovolver tomorrow, and if the Doctor is still alive by that time, this game should pretty much be in the bag.

I reiterate my

Vote: Pablito

.

[petroleumjelly]

While I'm here, I will summarize my ability.

Since I am so good at watching acting and plays and can pick out genuine sincerity outside of the acting career, ever night I can watch the performance of one person of my choosing. I have the uncanny ability to find out whether or not players are being truthful or untruthful by watching their faces for tics, and ungraceful bodily movemtents. After I had watched Pablito, I noticed he made a crucial mistake (because he has ulterior motives to the town) and that he is scum.

And I've always wanted to say this:

DIE SCUM DIE.

[petroleumjelly]

Apologies for the triple-post, but for the record:

[quote=PetroleumJelly]I may have a seventh reason to believe he [Pablito] is scummy soon.[/quote]

The fact that I got a guilty result on him being my seventh reason.

mod edit: fixed tags

[/i]

[petroleumjelly]

Mod

, would you mind fixing the tags on that last quote?

><

[petroleumjelly]

Unvote, Vote Pablito

Now I understand why your analysis was done they way it was. You already knew Pablito to be scum and you were trying to dig up his partners in crime. 8)

What made you pick Pablito to watch?

Gah, quick reply here, I have a meeting I gotta get to.

I investigated Pablito because he had really obvious ties to Turbo: my thinking was that they were either Masons or Scum. Of course,

if

they were scum, I decided that it would be much more likely that Turbo would be the Godfather, since he was almost

begging

for an investigation last night.

But yes, I purposely gave my case out to be attacked by Turbo (which turned out better than I expected). I really didn't want to wait for two replacements, and since everybody besides them (Sineish and Quailman) has already placed a vote, I thought I would kick this game back into gear.

For the record, before anybody starts getting any ideas, I do not truly suspect Quailman (well, I slightly do of course) but I tossed him into the mix to see the reaction from Turbo and Pablito. They seem to leave it somewhat unaddressed, although Turbo did mention that Don Gaetano might be a "scum partner".

All right, gotta run, any other questions I can answer when I get back.

[petroleumjelly]

Unvote: Pablito

.

We still need some discussion today I think. Turbo, I do not want you to claim today (so perish the thought if it occured to you).

I do not want this game to go into night when we have two completely inactive players. I think it is pretty obvious that we are going to need replacements, and until that time, I believe we should keep this game in Day.

My vote, of course, will return to Pablito once everybody is present and accounted for. Please do not place any more votes on Pablito, he isn't going anywhere.

[petroleumjelly]

Hmm, some food for thought. I was wrong about Turbo not claiming today, I'm glad cropcircles pointed this out: I was only thinking off the top of my head, and I was worried about Turbo claiming for the sole purpose of getting a counter-claim (such as a Doctor claim), so that the scum would have a good target tonight (assuming I am protected).

However, the more I think of the possibility, the more I am becoming worried that I may indeed be an insane cop. Since we have a Vigilante claim, then, I believe I will reveal both of my investigations. If there is a

real

Vigilante, you should probably keep silent: Vig Turbo if he is lying, do not allow yourself to be outed. This is one claim where a counter-claim isn't necessary to kill of lying scum.

Night One:

I investigated Stewie, got innocent (this pretty much explains my actions on Day 1, and why I was not suspicious of Stewie: I kept the percentage at 50% purposely on the chance I was not completely sane)

Night Two:

I investigated Pablito, got guilty

If Turbo is telling the truth, it could mean a number of things.
1.) That Turbo may have almost cost us the game by connecting himself to obviously with Pablito, assuming I am indeed a Sane Cop.
2.) If Turbo

did

target Stewie, it is possible that I am an insane Cop, and that Stewie is an unnightkillable GF as opposed to an Investigation-Immune GF (which is why I would receive an innocent when he would otherwise be seen as guilty).
3.) If Turbo

did

target Stewie, Stewie may have been protected (or protected himself, via a Hider role or such) or Turbo was role-blocked.

I would most definitely like to hear a claim from Pablito (I would have preferred his claim before Turbo's, but it's a bit late for that now.

I think I will have to re-read this game after Pablito's claim from a number of viewpoints now, and determine which is the most likely of the three:

A.) If Stewie is scum and Pablito is not
B.) If Pablito is scum but Turbo is not
C.) If Pablito is scum and Turbo is scum

As much as I hate to say it, Turbo's insistence on being tied to Pablito almost makes me want to believe him. Gah! Of course, even if Turbovolver is indeed unconnected to Pablito, we still need to entertain the thought (assuming Turbo does have night-kill abilities) he may a SK. This game has gotten very complicated very quickly, which is discouraging because I was feeling pretty good about catching two scum (which may still be true).

This is definitely going to take a long think. I haven't yet dealt with a game where I seriously had to consider the issue of an insane cop.

I have a bad feeling we're going to have to get claims from both Pablito and Stewie before today ends, and that is

a lot

of claims, and it will give the scum

a lot

of information. We need to talk about this before it goes any farther.

And what we

really

need are replacements for Sineish and Quailman. This is getting silly.

[petroleumjelly]

Whoa, don't go making those kinds of plans so quickly.

Firstly, it is possible we have an anti-town role-blocker. Secondly, I would have to re-read the thread entirely to see whether or not there was sufficient scumminess from Cropcircles to warrant a Vigging (

especially

after he has

already said

he has breadcrumbed towards his role in this game). Secondly, I am not just going to buy your Vigilante role-claim outright when there is still a possibility of you being SK or scum, since you have connected yourself to Pablito so vehemently. And thirdly, if Pablito turns up town, you may want to target

Stewie

(as I would then have to be an Insane Cop) on the chance you were role-blocked by a pro-town player on Night 2 (although this possibility does not hold as much weight as the first two reasons I can think of right now).

I still need to think about all this junk we've got on the table, so I wouldn't go making plans for Night Three unless we absolutely have to. It almost got me in trouble in another game (see Miyazaki Mafia), so am loathe to take the same risk again.

[petroleumjelly]

Hehe. This game hurts me so much it's funny. First I had to hold in my investigations when I just wanted to say: Pablito and Turbo are scum! Look, look!, but I held onto my instincts until I was satisfied.

For the record, just yesterday I had both you and Pablito down in my note as: "Most Definitely Scum". You've since moved up into my "WTH" category, and Pablito has knocked down slightly to "Very Likely Scum". The fact that I have read Newbie #193, though, is not especially helpful to you.

[petroleumjelly]

And hence exactly why I didn't want Turbovolver claiming today: the inevitable counter-claim from a power role. And of course, it would make perfect sense that Turbo would claim Vigilante if he has NK immunity, making it necessary for the Vig to counter-claim since Turbo would not be able to be picked off by the

real

Vigilante.

*Throws hands in air in frustration*

God, this game is really confusing. I ask that everybody unvote, please. This might be an even longer day that I had previously expected.

[petroleumjelly]

Yes, actually.

My immediate thoughts is that we lynch Turbo today, and RotN Vigs Pablito tonight, but I will need to think all of this through.

Another option might be to lynch somebody, have RotN Vig Pablito, have Turbo kill SK somebody else, so that we can get 3 kills at once and I will have another investigation for tomorrow (as well as finding out whether I am Sane or Insane), but the problem is scum will also get a kill (making one lynch and 3 night kills, bring us down to 6 players). We can then lynch Turbo, and if RotN is still alive, we can direct his kill towards somebody else if it is necessary, while losing another overnight to scum (bringing us to 3 players and an endgame situation unless we catch all the scum by this point).

But that's a lot of killing. Hmm. Lemme see what we've got:

Alive

Turbovolver - Art, Serial Killer
Pablito - ???, Scum (?)
RangeroftheNorth - Geology, Vigilante
PetroleumJelly - Drama, Sane/Insane Cop
Stewie - ???, Innocent (?)
Sineish - ???, ???
Quailman - ???, ???
Cropcircles - ???, ???
Sotty7 - ???, ???
Don Gaetano - ???, ???

Dead

Snowmonkey - Math, Vanilla Townie
Jimmy of the Rez - French, "Mason" (no indicator that partner is pro-town)

Any thoughts from anybody would be good about now.

[petroleumjelly]

Wow, that did it for me. Pablito is most definitely scum, and I am a Sane Cop.

I already hinted at my role earlier - I am a cop. This is why I questioned the sanity of PJ. It would be extremely rare to have an insane solo cop. At the same time, I questioned my own sanity once I found out that PJ is likely a cop. I make a huge assumption that PJ is not scum based on his motives for revealing all of this - plus PJ has not made any significant anti-town moves. It makes sense that we have two cops since we potentially have three mafia with one SK (unless it's actually only two mafia with a SK). Anyone want to guess who I investigated Night Zero?

Vote: Turbovolver it's the right move now.

That doesn't make sense. Games do not have both a Sane Cop

and

an Insane Cop. That is

super

powerful: as soon as the Insane Cop learns they are Insane, their investigations are useful to the town. Further, I haven't really seen where you hinted at your Cop role at all,

especially

not one with an investigation against Turbo.

Further, Pablito has not told us whether he has gotten two different results in his investigations: one innocent and one guilty, or two guilties, or two innocents. Because he emphatically votes Turbovolver, it would seem that he is implying that he has gotten one innocent and one guilty (that being on Turbovolver). The fact that he says he investigated Turbovolver Night Zero (before Day 1) is preposterous: why would he act "chummy" with somebody he got a guilty investigation on? He has left no track record of such an investigation, nor has he given his complete role, nor how it ties in with his claim.

Further:

With your three-kill plan, you have subtly suggested that the town puts itself into a horrible position and make it very easy for scum to win. This is not a pro-town move. Furthermore, this is heavily OPTIMISTIC logic. If we are to believe that there is only a doctor or a roleblocker and not both - I cannot see how scum (and/or SK) would allow both the cop and the vig to last this four-player loss plan. FOS: petroleumjelly

Perhaps you should read my entire post. My first thoughts were:

My immediate thoughts is that we lynch Turbo today, and RotN Vigs Pablito tonight, but I will need to think all of this through.

My second theory was only a suggestion to be considered: if you notice, it has Pablito being Vigged by RotN (so you still die), while we get a shot at two other scums through today's lynch and a target for Turbovolver, with a guaranteed lynch on Turbovolver tomorrow. Both Pablito and Turbovolver die, but the town gets two extra chance at hitting scum through a lynch today and a SK kill from Turbo.

Also, PJ you should have at least waited to see a claim from pablito before outing me. The chances of you being paranoid in a 12 person game are slim to none. I know them to be none, but that's another story.

Sorry Stewie, you are correct that I probably should have held on to that innocent investigation: my thoughts were that if I was insane, we lynch Pablito today, and if he comes up innocent, then our Vig would target you tonight (since I would then be insane).

That said.

1.) We lynch Turbo today. Pablito gives us his "results", and he is Vigged tonight. By this time we may have another useful investigation or otherwise useful information that can lead us to another scum death.

2.) We lynch somebody other than Turbo/Pablito. Pablito gives us his "results" and is Vigged tonight. We have Turbo target somebody other than who was lynched. We lynch Turbo tomorrow, and go from there (if the game is not over by that point).

3.) We lynch somebody other than Turbo/Pablito. Pablito gives us his "results", and is SK'd by Turbo tonight. Turbo is Vigged tonight. We decide on tomorrow's lynching when the time comes.

Of course, both 2 and 3 are conditional on:
A.) Turbovolver being SK (and not scum, which is actually still possible)
B.) Turbovolver cooperating with the town
C.) No Anti-Town role-blockers

This is simply putting all of our viable options on the table. I think Pablito underestimated the power of even an Insane Cop role, and thought he could get away by claiming a Sane Cop: such is quite silly, as hopefully everybody can see how even an Insane Cop is beneficial (as opposed to Naive Cops and Paranoid Cops, who are only detrimental).

[petroleumjelly]

Anyway I want to see Sineish and Quailman replaced before anyone's lynched.

I agree with this completely, and I've said it at least once. We need all of our players here! I think the lynching of Turbo today and the Vigging of Pablito tonight is perfectly fine, but we gain nothing by ending today prematurely.

[petroleumjelly]

Ugh, that claim was completely unneccessary! This may go down in my record-book as one of the craziest Game Days I have ever read, I have had to change my notes so many times.

People: please stop claiming! ><

Kenji

, can we get replacements for Sineish and Quailman, pretty please?

[petroleumjelly]

As soon as we can kick Quailman and Sineish into shape or get them replaced, my vote will go on Turbovolver.

And before I forget: Yup, Cropcircles' claim was much better hidden than mine. Now he gets bragging rights.

[petroleumjelly]

That is true, but it also increases the chances of scum hitting the Doctor tonight, meaning I may only get one investigation as to my possible two. For the record, I wasn't even planning on investigating you tonight!

Which is exactly why we need to

make sure

Sineish and Quailman are active: one of them may be the Doctor, and we need to make sure they send in protection tonight, on either myself or RotN.

I understand your reasons, though, so at least your claim had some tactical reasoning behind it. Although this is further proof that

Turbo must die

.

[petroleumjelly]

Oh, hush you. If you have truly been using your scumdar this game, it is completely broken.

And *sigh* for ending the day before knowing whether or not we have replacements for Sineish and Quailman. Hope that doesn't come back to bite us in the butt.

[petroleumjelly]

A couple quick points, then:

1.) Turbo, you are the

Serial Killer

. You have a hidden agenda in that you want everybody dead. Who you "suspect" does not carry as much weight as others' opinions.

2.) Cropcircles' attack on you, being a partner of Jimmy, was justified: he knew not to attack Jimmy, so he was at least making an informed choice of attacking by going after you. Although he did ask you to claim prematurely, Masons get

leeway

for otherwise "scummy" actions

precisely

because they are Masons and can be verified by their partners.

3.) My "connection" with Stewie was that I had an innocent investigation on him.

Yes

I had a connection, but I would have gained

nothing

on Day One to have explained that connection. Just because two people are connected doesn't mean they're both scum. It usually means they are Masons, Scum, a Scum ingratiating a townie, or a Cop who investigated and received an innocent result. Even

if

I had not investigated Stewie, however, I still did not agree with many of the arguments you were trying to make.

4.) My suspicions on Jimmy the Rez were because of one comment: after he explained himself, my suspicions of him dropped. I never had him written down in my list as "scum", although I believe he made a misstep in the comment I attacked him for.

5.) My suspicions on Snowmonkey were

completely

justified: he was playing the part of a detrimental townie. Enough people agreed that he was promptly lynched. A lynch on a complete townie is not a waste, either: we can now go back and look at voting patterns to see who was pushing what agenda. I will probably do a detailed voting summary on Day 3, if I am still alive, especially if I get another guilty result tonight.

[petroleumjelly]

All right, I got an innocent result today: I won't say on who just yet (since the scum are obviously angling towards getting rid of our confirmed innocents while trying to hit the Doc). I would like to hear from our replacements first off, of course.

Looks like Akonas is replacing Quailman, and bigAl is replacing Sineish. Sorry you two have to read all of this.

First thoughts: I doubt the two remaining scum are Quailman and Sineish.

Since Cropcircles is Mason, RangeroftheNorth is Vigilante, and I am Cop, that means I think we have one scum approximately in each of these two pairs:

-Don Gaetano / Sotty7
-Quailman / Sineish

Alternatively, Don Gaetano

and

Sotty7 may also be scum, so I won't be ruling out that possibility just yet.

For the record, Kenji, there are seven players alive and it is four to lynch, not 8 and 5!

And we're still likely dealing with a GF (even though Turbo was untargetable when he didn't kill), so I am loathe to trust my results last night 100%, which is why I would rather have discussion before revealing my results (since I am clearly leaning towards one person being scum, as I got an innocent result from one of the two lists).

[petroleumjelly]

Hmm. Actually, we might be able to win this game through deduction, now.

There are 3 "confirmed" players: myself, RotN, and Cropcircles (who better dang well not be a scum Mason).

Alive, at least, are:
2 scum (possibly one GF included in that)
1 sane cop (myself)
1 Vigilante (RotN)
1 Mason (cropcircles)
1 Doctor
1 Something... perhaps a Townie

I'm thinking a Doctor claim today might win the game outright.

Even if both scum claim or counter-claim Doctor, we lynch one, Vig the other, and if necessary, lynch the last tomorrow.

If one scum claims or counter-claims, we lynch the scummiest, Vig the other if necessary (which would mean either myself or RotN would be a goner tonight, if we lynched to Doc). D4 there will be four alive, so the town can lynch somebody either with the help of an investigation (if I am alive), or a second shot through RotN N4 (if he is still alive).

If no counter-claims, there are still 3 people unclaimed: lynch one, Vig the other, and if necessary, lynch the last tomorrow.

This does ride on the fact that we have a Doctor, but I cannot imagine a set-up with four people with killing abilities and not one Doctor.

I don't want the Doctor to come out yet, but this is certainly worth considering.

[petroleumjelly]

All right, our role-claiming is:

Cropcircles --> Russian, Mason with German (Jimmy the Rez)
Don Gaetano --> Philosophy, Role-Blocker
PetroleumJelly --> Drama, Cop
Akonas --> Physics, Vanilla Townie
RangeroftheNorth --> Geology, Vigilante
bigAl --> Biology, Doctor
Sotty7 --> Music, Vanilla Townie

Role-Blockers are quite testable, so I say we leave Don Gaetano alive for tonight. BigAl is probably our true Doctor, since there are no other Doctor claims. Al, you should probably protect one of myself or RangeroftheNorth tonight, but don't say which.

I'm thinking we lynch Sotty7, and Vig Akonas. Don Gaetano, you role-block Akonas.

People I am almost 100% are pro-town are myself, RotN, Cropcircles, and bigAl, so we should win simply eliminating Sotty7, Akonas, and Don Gaetano in that order.

Vote: Sotty7

. Chances are Sotty7 and Akonas aren't partners together (since they are voting for each other) but one of them is scum, and I'm leaning more towards Sotty7 (partly because she was very willing to tie Turbo and Pablito together). Chances are Don Gaetano is scum, but since he gave us a testable role-claim, we might as well test it.

[petroleumjelly]

Oh, and before I forget. I investigated Don Gaetano last night and received an innocent result. If Sotty7 or Akonas is GF then, we're going to have to look elsewhere.

I'm still good with the Sotty7 --> Akonas --> Don Gaetano plan for now, though.

[petroleumjelly]

Actually, the case against you pretty much comes from simple deduction, Sotty7.

Cropcircles is cleared for now (having been Jimmy's Mason partner). RangeroftheNorth is cleared (proven Vigilante). BigAl is basically cleared (for his Doctor claim). And I am cleared.

As I have already pointed out, I have received an innocent result on Don Gaetano (although he may be the Godfather). That leaves two players: Sotty7 and Akonas. Since there are likely two scum left, and we have the field narrowed down to two players, it really does not matter in which order the town chooses to kill the two of you.

My investigations are probably useless now (if one of Sotty7 or Akonas are not the Godfather, that is). BigAl, you should almost definitely use your protection on RangeroftheNorth tonight. It may be more important to protect our Vigilante than anybody else simply so that the town will have four chances at hitting scum, by a lynch today, a Vigging tonight, a lynch tomorrow, and if necessary (although highly doubtful), a Vigging tomorrow tonight.

It is worth noting that we have seven players alive right now. Lynching one today puts us at six, and two will die overnight (one from Vigging and one from Night-Killing), leaving us with four. We lynch another, leaving three. Two will then die over night (one from Vigging, and one from Night-Killing). The town basically gets to choose four out of the seven players living to kill, so this game is pretty much over anyways, unless somebody is completely throwing us for a loop. Unless there is another player with NK-immunity, Sotty7, I don't believe the order we choose will truly alter the result of this game.

[petroleumjelly]

Cropcircles --> German, Mason with French (Jimmy the Rez)
Don Gaetano --> Philosophy, Role-Blocker
PetroleumJelly --> Drama, Cop
RangeroftheNorth --> Geology, Vigilante
bigAl --> Biology, Doctor

Well, I investigated Cropcircles last night just in case we had a mixed Masonry, but I got another innocent result, and was actually able to confirm that he was German.

As it is, we have two dead goons but no dead Godfather, so I'm going to take a "wild" guess and say that Don Gaetano is our GF. As far as I'm concerned, RotN is indeed our Vigilante, Cropcircles is indeed a Mason, I am indeed a Sane Cop, and BigAl is very likely to be our Doctor, which leaves Don Gaetano and his Role-Blocker claim.

As it is, Sotty7 first claimed Music (a lie), and Pablito first claimed History (the truth).

Chances are Sotty7 and Akonas aren't partners together (since they are voting for each other) but one of them is scum, and I'm leaning more towards Sotty7 (partly because she was very willing to tie Turbo and Pablito together). Chances are Don Gaetano is scum, but since he gave us a testable role-claim, we might as well test it.

Yeah, should’ve just gone for Sotty7 and Don Gaetano right off the bat, it looks like. Sorry, Akonas.

Vote: Don Gaetano

. Very well played, though, I had you as the most likely to be pro-town early in the game! By the way, who did you "role-block" last night Don? We know it couldn't have been RotN or myself. On that note, who did you protect last night, BigAl? I'm hoping it was RotN.

[petroleumjelly]

Well played scum: you sounded very pro-town the entire game. This was certainly a game deserved by scum, you just happened to be playing against a very shrewd town, is my conclusion.

Pablito was going down either way on Day 2, of course, I guess I got lucky catching Turbo. Of course, I'm pretty sure they were both trying to ingratiate themselves with who they thought were townies, which is certainly a funny twist of fate.

Sotty7 seemed fine with tying Pablito with Turbo (which is why I suspected her after Day 2, sorry I didn't go into more detail), but I'll admit we pretty much just lined up all the potential scum and had them done away with one by one, rather than seeking out plain scumminess. This doesn't really feel a real game in some respects, the biggest (and funnest) part was Day 2 where accusations and claims and counter-claims were flying everywhere (and Kenji was apparantly finding the situation funny).

Apologies to Stewie for revealing my investigation on him early, but I did want to make sure that, on the off chance I was insane, that I got my other investigation out in the open. Also, sorry for calling out Jimmy earlier, but I still stand my statement that I think the one line I pointed out was a mistake (albeit a small one), and I know I made a number of mistakes in this game.

In any case, thanks for playing all, and thank you for modding Kenji (and props to Turbo for picking up the slack towards the end).

[petroleumjelly]

Oh, sorry Sotty. There was a post where you said something like, "Oh, so that's why you attacked Pablito and not Turbovolver." It was the " 8) " emoticon that made me think "hmmm", because of course scum would be more than happy to sacrifice one of their own if it meant they could implicate somebody they thought to be pro-town.