Mini 1199 - Plissken's Pit [GAME OVER]

[SomeRandomGuy]

Empking - use your splash attack!

vote:Empking[/vote]

[SomeRandomGuy]

lol used the 2 different tags.. VOTE: empking

[SomeRandomGuy]

lol used the 2 different tags.. VOTE: empking

Chris?

Aye tis me, was it the auron avatar that gave it away or my buggering up of the vote tags? I hope it's the former, the latter only points to me being identifyable through my idiocy which actually hurts my feelings a wee bit :p Oh and happy birthday dear boy, i'd be all cliche and give you the gift of a vote but i think it's already been done

[SomeRandomGuy]

Stone? My 2nd favourite wrestler who likes men! I thought Swift was making a joke referring to ChrisB's first game here where he used the wrong tags.

It's quite a small group, i'm not sure whether being 2nd favourite is a compliment or not, though i guess so long as Orlando Jordan isn't number 1 i'm not too fussed , but aye chris stone indeed.

Don't know how you guys feel about RQS but i kind of like it, if only to get a feel for how people formulate answers and of course getting to know people here just a tad better.

1) How many games of Mafia have you played?
2) Do you prefer to play as scum or town?

I feel a bit lonely only knowing 2 other players here

1) I think i've played around 4 or 5 mostly being on another site only one (ongoing game) here.
2) I like playing town, working out power roles has never been as fun to me as scouting for the bad guys, though a game i recently played (and was scum) with 2 scum teams and a member of each scum team and 1 member of town being in an inner council was great too, i had the extremely dangerous to me town IC member to try and find... Shame that the same night i killed him the other mafia team thought they'd pop me off to help their faction and the IC

[SomeRandomGuy]

2) I actually prefer the scum role cult, because how long you survive (cult leader) depends on so many variable because you actually have to find who is scum who will lead to life or death.

Scum hunting to avoid recruiting scum sounds like fun tbh, I've not tried it but it does sound like a fun role

1) What is your favorite role?

I mentioned in the answer to my own question the time that i played as scum with and Inner council, i found this role to be really fun, i was the Godfather of the scum. Essentially I had to try to gain as much info from my scum buddy as possible, we were told an IC existed as it was an open game or semi open, i forget. My aims were to obviously do the usual scum thing whilst trying to find the town IC member - if i hit the oppisite sides scum IC it would have been bad the info the town ic would give out would suck for my team. This was a really great role because i felt like i was in a fairly unique situation the other IC scum was the other teams godfather (which i had some suspicion of thanks to my scum buddy) and so i was the only one who could safely make a night kill on the town ic.
Other than that, I tend to like the VT role, on the site i play i always end up eating a night kill and so it's about the best role i can be there to be pro-town I've not yet had a third party role, which i believe i'd also love to play.

[SomeRandomGuy]

Swift: Who was it who killed the game by asking the random questions?

I asked the random questions a while ago, i wouldn't say they've killed the game though - the only thing that was truly going on has still been going on along side them

[SomeRandomGuy]

Swift: Who was it who killed the game by asking the random questions?

I asked the random questions a while ago, i wouldn't say they've killed the game though - the only thing that was truly going on has still been going on along side them

You don't look like Swift but I suppose since the guy I though was Swift didn't answer you must be.

I answered the question as the guy who posted the questions, if you'd like to disregard my answer and wait for swift to give you the exact same one be my guest.

[SomeRandomGuy]

You are really pissed of about that post. I forgive you. Just please remove you vote, ok?

Well, my vote is on mal right now for two reasons. One, as has been pointed out, right now the pickings are slim. Two, the above quote. Town shouldn't worry that they have a vote on them or not. And asking someone to remove said vote seems self-serving and scummy to me. Also, I'm watching the exchange between bristep and rikana with interest. Well, I was until they both seemed to back off of each other's throats.

The only other thing being not much in this case.

well, in the first post you feel that your vote means 'something' why is it before that you said what's going on is 'not much'.

I actaully agree that asking people to remove their votes is a wee bit scummy, but it's not necessarily a scum tell but the fact that you made that post and then made the case that it's 'not much' later seems a wee bit scummy too. You explained that your vote isn't JUST rvs motivated yet down play the case later... what's going through your mind? it seems a little hipocritical but hey, i'm not 100% sober... i could be reading it wrong.

[SomeRandomGuy]

Well the weekend is done with so we really ought to get things moving again. I'm not really sure what there is to latch on to at the moment. Rikana's response to Bristep is something that will be interesting to see but how much substance there is in the whole argument i'm unsure, still though some of the reactions seem a wee bit odd. One thing I don't usually like however is people asking for votes to be removed, especially so early in the game where the chance of being hammered is low to say the least, over defensiveness never does anything to help me trust somebody.

[SomeRandomGuy]

Vote Somerandomguy

Give me some update on where you are as I'm struggling to read you position in this game.

As i said in my last post, i find people asking for votes to me removed to be a bit sketchy, Malp goes on to say that he did it to reaction catch:

Because the reason why I asked him to remove the vote was not fear, but to see his and other players' reactions

That's all well and good and i'd buy it but i don't see anything in the way of using the reactions to scum hunt at this point, which i find to be suspect.

I see responses to Bristep coming from Malp, I see defence, I just don't see any scum hunting either.

Obviouslly that town should'n be that "scared" to ask someone please to remove a vote. And L-2 is not that dangerous, especially in a game like this.

Well no, they shouldn't be scared to do it but it doesn't really make sense to do so, equally however it doesn't make sense for scum to have done. The tacking on the end of 'L-2 is not that dangerous' isn't completely true, it totally depends upon the wagons steam, how good the evidence against someone is and generally how aggressive the people pushing it are.

I don't like Malp's reason of asking for the vote to removed, simply because that reason was not followed up and jumping to say 'well i was reaction fishing' seems a little defensive and it completely underminds the reason. If you make scum aware of what you're doing, they're likely going to avoid it like the plague or use it in a way to look good.

Also, at this point in time i find Bristeps posts to be aggressive, i've seen him play like this as town and thus he's leaning town to me, so I don't think the wagon (at least in the beginning) is / was scum motivated - which in general makes me feel happier with it.

I'm not willing to take this to L-1 just yet, I don't want the possibility of a self hammer since the thread has been quite quiet and we don't have much more going on:

VOTE: Malp

[SomeRandomGuy]

Unvote: Malp

Sorry completely buggered up the tags again <.<

FoS:Malp

[SomeRandomGuy]

Right, extremely sorry for my inactivity toward the end of the last day, it seems i neglected to pay my internet bill and could only leech on my partners macbook at an unsecure connection. I'm going to be reading the game through properly tonight and will post what i feel at that point.

[SomeRandomGuy]

That being said, I'm fully confident in my town read of malp.

Malp won't flip scum, Bristep will still though.

done.

These quotes right here. Innocent, perhaps, at the time, but given the info we have now, they make me more than a little suspicious (I'm not going to speak for anyone else).

Rikana sets it up nicely with the whole town "read" of malp, giving (him? her? I apologize for not knowing Rikana's gender :-\) a nice cushion to fall back on if/when malp flips town (which he/she did. Apologies again for lack of knowledge with regards to gender).

Then there's the tunnel vision on Bristep, ignoring everyone else (like peoples).

Sorry, I forgot about this game for a moment. I'll have a post up later.

Then there's this little gem. Forgot about a game you were in? Convenient excuse for being called out on lurking.

Unvote

VOTE: Rikana[/unvote]

In all fairness to rikana what would the point of defending the person who is to be lynched by calling another player scum who he then proceeds to night kill and have both flip town be?

I'd find that much more suspect if Bristep hadn't have died in the night and was being set up for a day 2 lynch. I actually find because of that scenario that my read on Rikana is leaning town.

Why is it that you find it to be so suspect?

The one thing about Rikana's posts there is that they're quite conclusive, leave no room for backing out of the opinions easily.

[SomeRandomGuy]

Ah, i see the point you made now, less that stating bristep is scum than 'this ones innocent!'

[SomeRandomGuy]

I actually somewhat agree that saying someone in fairly uncertain terms would not flip scum is quite a suspect thing to do in day 1 before information is starting to get out there, especially in our day 1 where not all that much happened.

Now Empking's comment doesn't seem so odd to me, as I know what the context for it was. At first it just seemed odd and random. Didn't know he was hoping the thread would reach the 48 hour mark without a post. Although why a townie would want that in the first place is a bit of a mystery to me.

This though could read very similar, couldn't it? Did you know Emp was town? Why did you use 'a townie' as opposed to 'a player'?

[SomeRandomGuy]

Yeah FS, i was aware it was quite WIFOM something i try to avoid for the most part but i just didn't see how that particular situation painted Rikana badly and just wanted to mention it as the flips were seemingly being pushed against him which seemed to lack logic.

I'm not sure what to make of JamFTW at the moment, Rikana is leaning town mostly down to gut and his general aggressiveness, he just seems to be genuine, IS i'm also unsure of, I noticed previously the 'this game is full of junk' style comments and was waiting for something from him that would drag it out of that stage which doesn't seem to have came, I'm not willing to vote on him just yet based solely on that but it is suspect in my mind.

FS, what do you now think of Emp? It seemed day 1 you had a bit of a hardon for him and he's not been mentioned in this most recent post. Just wondering what your thought s on him are now.

[SomeRandomGuy]

I'm not sure what to make of JamFTW at the moment, Rikana is leaning town mostly down to gut and his general aggressiveness, he just seems to be genuine, IS i'm also unsure of, I noticed previously the 'this game is full of junk' style comments and was waiting for something from him that would drag it out of that stage which doesn't seem to have came, I'm not willing to vote on him just yet based solely on that but it is suspect in my mind.

There's far too much fencesitting here. You're not sure of this, you're not sure of that, maybe you should bleed onto the wagon, it sorta makes you suspicious.

FoS: SomeRandomGuy

because of the scum convenience involved. (Nobody says "scumvenience" anymore, do they?)

Also, FS, be careful. Tunneling is something Town does when they're thinking "come on, somehow this bastard's gotta be scum" and they keep pestering them over contrived details. If the IS-scum theory checks out, this isn't true, he knows whether or not he's pushing on Town or scum.

Or perhaps after my V/LA i don't feel as caught up as I'd like to be and need a proper read through again and some more information to go on. I'm still not caught up as much as i'd like and would like the chance to go through some ISO's and fully develop reads before showing a commitment to something just because others seem in some cases fairly certain. I'd also like to hear more from FS because he hasn't had a lot of posts for me to read back on and Emp seemed to be his previous scum read who he has now not mentioned, trying to work out if his motives for the case against IS that he presented are clear would be quite a big thing with my reads.

[SomeRandomGuy]

[quote="Yabba]Vote: SomeRandomGuy - I believe he's avoiding the game out of fear. You can just tell from his really cautious wording to the fact that he hasn't actually voted seriously - he RV'd Empking, then didn't actually want to vote malp. You can't even give him much credit for voicing much suspicion, I guess he was onto malp, but then sorta sat on his ass and didn't even vote to L-1. Obscuring this is the fact he genuinely went V/LA - but not on the 7th, he actually declared it on the 12th, and not here. Also, maybe there's scum on the malp wagon, but odds on there's one OFF as well.

@SRG:
1. Why did you lurk?
2. Who are your biggest suspicions in the game?[/quote]

What I'd say for you is to look at the other game i'm in (Newbie 1117) the inactive periods here will match up there, including the time i hadn't posted my V/LA. I had hoped my internet would be up much quicker than it was, the reason my posts slowed up before finally the v/la is because i was leeching internet across the road, the connection there got quite bad to the point of being unable to connect most of the time and my only real access to the net from then was walking to another street with my partners macbook which i did once or twice to prod dodge / say i'll be back soon. This was the reason i didn't place a vote onto Malp I had put an FoS in place i didn't want to take it to L-1 real early and by the time i got back to this game again the day had ended.

The inactivity has left me sort of treading water, both in my reads and post content - something which will shorlty be rectified.

As for my suspicions: I had been a little suspious of FS, this is why i asked about his dropping of Empking as one of his scum reads, it seemed a little odd, he's explained it fairly well and so that has cleared it up mostly for me. IS seems to be the most likely candidate to me: I find myself trusting 2 of the people on the wagon, I find that his commenting on lack of content yet adding little is as detrimental to town as lurkers yet also putting himself out there in good light, if FS seems oppertunistic to him, that seems oppertunistic to me.

VOTE: Internet Stranger

[SomeRandomGuy]

Both quotes SRG.

What I'd say for you is to look at the other game i'm in (Newbie 1117) the inactive periods here will match up there, including the time i hadn't posted my V/LA.

I can't agree with that. I think it was between the 7th and the 10th that you had gone repeatedly for a game other than this one. Maybe it was whilst you were V/LA, but the fact is that when you went to mafiascum, you were more eager to go to another game over this one. Granted, this game was started in rather disinteresting fashion, but the fact is that you avoided this game. Out of fear. It's harder to say the right thing in a scum game whereas there are no wrong things to say in a Town game. Yet you proved yourself capable of coming to this game, and you didn't. There was a lot of support for malp - why ruin a perfectly good thing by making a reckless post from a state of vacation?

It's that and the caution in your voice. You're exercising so much caution in this game. Everything's going just fine, we're going all the wrong directions. You don't need to do a thing.

I had been a little suspious of FS, this is why i asked about his dropping of Empking as one of his scum reads, it seemed a little odd, he's explained it fairly well and so that has cleared it up mostly for me.

That was SUCH a nitpicky question. I mean, it's a question scum would ask really - trying to probe at some inconsistency that just really isn't all that scummy, yet you wish it were.

I don't think the way you're approaching scumhunting is actually someone trying to solve a puzzle.

There was more to say in the other game, i had spent longer with it and had more leads, there was not a whole lot to go on in this game, paint it as being out of fear all you like but you're wrong.

I did say that the next one to vote for me is surely scum too, and here comes RandomGuy to prove me right.

Yes, obviously that isn't something i'd avoid if i were scum and not only that but stating such a thing amounts to nothing more than a policy argument and is not pro-town at all. It's the best kind of OMGUS there is, 'vote me and you must be scum!'. Great defence... it's things like that which only confirm you as being anti-town.

[SomeRandomGuy]

Keeping in mind that one sentence is your entire argument for voting for me:

IS seems to be the most likely candidate to me: I find myself trusting 2 of the people on the wagon,

I find that his commenting on lack of content yet adding little is as detrimental to town as lurkers yet also putting himself out there in good light

, if FS seems oppertunistic to him, that seems oppertunistic to me.

VOTE: Internet Stranger

Thats it. Thats the entire premise of your argument. I commented on the lack of activity. But somehow identifying JAM as scum, arguing with Yabba and now pointing you out isnt adding enough now? If that isnt, then what is?

Yes, obviously that isn't something i'd avoid if i were scum and not only that but stating such a thing amounts to nothing more than a policy argument and is not pro-town at all. It's the best kind of OMGUS there is, 'vote me and you must be scum!'. Great defence... it's things like that which only confirm you as being anti-town.

Now you throw out some yummy WIFOM for all to deal with. Really, youre just another bandwagon jumper thinking im somehow some easy lynch. You have no argument, you have no case, all you have is a bandwagon to hop on. If that isnt opportunistic, then what is?

I find 2 people on your wagon to be trustable at the moment, that leads me to believe that the intentions of those people are pro-town which of course makes me feel easier about the wagon. My intention was not to create WIFOM you created that the moment you said 'the next person to vote me is scum' and then followed through with that claim. What argument can I make to you claiming i'm scum simply because you said the next person to vote you would be? There's no way of countering that point except in the way i did, you forced WIFOM, unless i were to ignore it but then ignoring your points would be a scum tell, i'm sure.

All you have on me is my inactivity, which I've explained, my lack of vote on Malp which is also explained and that I didn't jump right back in with a vote.

You're twisting my V/LA to mean that i was somehow scared of posting for fear of making a mistake, you're simply painting everything the way you want to see it - Decide someone is scum, explain how later - exactly the kind of thing pre-determining someone is scum for placing a vote relys on; how is that pro-town?

[SomeRandomGuy]

Also, i'm staying at my partners mums house tonight, since we're looking after it whilst she's on holiday and she doesn't have the internet so if any questions or points get left that don't get responded to tonight, i'll do so tomorrow when i get home.

[SomeRandomGuy]

By trustable i mean that i don't feel they're scum at this moment in time, whereas Jam I'm less certain of and yourself whom i'm thinking may well be scum. I'm not sheeping but i didn't like such comments from you as 'the next person to vote me is scum', it doesn't sit well with me at all, the active lurking of day 1 from you was also suspect.

Anyway i'm just about to leave, i'll respond more tomorrow and promise to get a proper full re-read of the game with any thoughts which develop along with it being posted.

[SomeRandomGuy]

FS - I mentioned that there was already a wagon in the post that you quoted, aswell as mentioning 2 others on the wagon - even if i didn't name them by names, i am by no means pretending that the ideas i presented were new, seems like a bit of a misrep to me? You seem extremely scared of perceived buddying with you, when i've made absolutely no attempt at that, have I? I mentioned you at the end of that post to demonstrate that i felt IS was being oppertunistic also and was using it against you previously, that's all.

I don't like arguments such as 'the next person who votes me is scum' I really don't see town reasoning for such a blanket statement. I liked the previous arguments against IS, I didn't like the way he dealt with his wagon and that's where my vote comes from.

[Quote="peregrineV]
It sounds like your defending your V/LA timeline, which makes no sense to me. Maybe it's just the tone of the posts, but not liking them.
[/quote]

I was simply mentioning it as some of the suspicion on me was in part due to it, It's not something which clears me but nor should it be something which helps to incriminate me. So things such as me not having my vote on Malp whilst i had supported that wagon previously for instance isn't a genuine tell, i was quite willing to have put my vote there and it's things like that which made it important to bring up, if I had come into day 2 shitting on the wagon, I'd understand that my V/LA would do nothing to help my case.

[SomeRandomGuy]

Shadow, a White Knight is those assholes that sit on their white horse and act like they are the the most confirmed townie of the bunch. They use arrogance and patronization to get their point across on all the lowlives because they believe that they are beyond reproach. They enjoy commanding others and getting the townies to follow them along like sheep; sheep who never suspect Sir White Knight of being scum. As if they commanded some extra respect from the rest. Those bastards always turn out to be scum and I make it a mission to ensure that they dont fuck the town over by endgame.

You're just jealous.

*gallops in on my trusty white horse, majestic music plays*

*through mask, in a gallant, manly voice*

IT IS I! I BRING TO YOU JUSTICE AND THREATS OF DEATH TO THOSE WHO LURK! LONG LIVE ACTIVE GAMES! DEATH TO MINIMALISM! WE SHALL OVERCOME!

So

*points sword at SRG*

...

...can you give a layman's summary as to why Sir Estranged One of the Internet is scum? To my understanding, you don't like this "blanket statement" of his and you find the others "trustworthy". Is that all?

other than that his coasting and trying to get town points at the same time, i'll comment more in the morning, it's 2am and the partner wants to sleep soon

[SomeRandomGuy]

Shadow, a White Knight is those assholes that sit on their white horse and act like they are the the most confirmed townie of the bunch. They use arrogance and patronization to get their point across on all the lowlives because they believe that they are beyond reproach. They enjoy commanding others and getting the townies to follow them along like sheep; sheep who never suspect Sir White Knight of being scum. As if they commanded some extra respect from the rest. Those bastards always turn out to be scum and I make it a mission to ensure that they dont fuck the town over by endgame.

You're just jealous.

*gallops in on my trusty white horse, majestic music plays*

*through mask, in a gallant, manly voice*

IT IS I! I BRING TO YOU JUSTICE AND THREATS OF DEATH TO THOSE WHO LURK! LONG LIVE ACTIVE GAMES! DEATH TO MINIMALISM! WE SHALL OVERCOME!

So

*points sword at SRG*

...

...can you give a layman's summary as to why Sir Estranged One of the Internet is scum? To my understanding, you don't like this "blanket statement" of his and you find the others "trustworthy". Is that all?

other than that his coasting and trying to get town points at the same time, i'll comment more in the morning, it's 2am and the partner wants to sleep soon

I realised i forgot about this, here goes.

It's general inconsistancies which worry me for instance:

Im ok with a Malp lynch.

If for some reason we are wrong, we need to go after an off-voter.
If for some reason we are right, then we need to go after the ringleaders of the peoples wagon (sorry Yabbaguy)

to his next post:

LYNCHED (Internet stranger, JAMFTW, Bristep123, Empking, Sky, Swiftstrike, Smallpeople343)

So like I said, at least one of these people is scum. Obviously, its neither me or Bristep. I nominate JAM

A very quick turn around there, from an off voter should be targetted if the malp lynch turned up town to someone on the wagon MUST be scum.

[quote="IS]Does anyone else find it peculiar that the two off-voters from the Malp lynch are suddenly hopping onto my easy wagon?
[/quote]

Now, which one is it? You seem to go between thinking we need to look at an off-voter to looking at the people on the Malp wagon, back toward 'off voters' being an issue.

It's things like this and the general tone of IS's posts which make me uneasy. I also can't shake off what i felt was scummy behaviour in Day 1 - I didn't have much to add in Day 1 myself as Locke has just pointed out but i was fairly transparent about that fact IS however was criticising content and adding nothing for quite a while.

I guess though the main issue is simply how decisive his posts sound, some of them exude a type of arrogance even I at my worst am not capable of. Am I sure at this point that he is scum? No, not really but he stuck out to me and I put my vote down to show that.

A lot of people seem to be guilty of doing very little on D1, but SRG actively takes the game away from scumhunting, which is worthy of my vote.

You've got people who said they didn't really get into day 1 because they had nothing to go on, you've got IS and Emp criticising the lack of good content and somehow my RQ's is the scummiest thing? There was nothing to go on other than an argument which was becoming rather circular, it seems a lot of people don't like the RQ's, that's fine I was just trying to start discussion going alongside that might have given something, even if small to go on. Obviously that seems to have been a bad decision.
You've come right into the game and thrown your weight onto a wagon, ladies and gentleman if you lynch me, when I turn up town, this is likely scum on my wagon right here.

[SomeRandomGuy]

Gah, stupid tags

[SomeRandomGuy]

There's still very little for me to answer to in that post Yabba.

-Stupid random questions: Yes
-Not being as active as i should have been? Certainly.
-Scum hunting badly or very little? Aye.
-Wishy-washy? Perhaps.

Should I make a list of everyone who has been guilty of at least one of those things? How about those who were guilty of 2 or 3?

About the V/LA thing - how about you also look at the neruzian empire game i'm in - i've STILL not caught up there since my V/LA It was not a case of not wanting to play here, rather that the other game i'm in (newbie 1117) had more going on, i was more upto date with it and such, same goes for the offsite game i'm in. your legitimate points i will discuss, speculation on me not playing here because i'm scum or w/e else is completely unfounded.

You just aren't scumhunting actively, you're taking such a laid back approach to the game and watching ourselves fuck up. You should get lynched just for letting us fuck up anyway due to your wishy-washiness and the times when your lack of activity had no excuse.

You seem to be moving very quickly toward a defence when i flip town here, Yabba.

[SomeRandomGuy]

There's still very little for me to answer to in that post Yabba.

Inactivity cases are hard to explain away. It's a case of you acting extraordinarily anti-Town, and I think it's alignment-based, not speed-of-game based, contrary to your assertation.

They're near impossible to explain away which is why i'm done trying.
If that's what you believe then your vote is absolutely justified what i would say though is that people need to watch out if you start backing away from it if / when i am lynched.

The thing i would be looking at if i were an outsider on this wagon is that it does come down to an inactivity case, there's nothing i can really answer to and the fact that yabba is not only pointing that out but seemingly standing by his case, (the bit i quoted in my last post looked a bit like a self protective statement but he has completely cleared that up with this latest post) makes me feel that he is not the scum on this wagon, I've already said who i feel the scum on this wagon is and i'll be looking into that more before deadline.

[SomeRandomGuy]

That isnt much of a defense on his part. I say we let him fry.

and that's about as pro-town as a serial killer.

[SomeRandomGuy]

There's little for me to add currently, hiding certainly wouldn't be an option with your constant calling me scum and saying i'm full of shit at least you're being so blatent that i don't need to point it out since it's unmissable, this actually leads me to be more open to the idea that you're town but then I find aggressiveness in posts often convinces me of innocence, and i've been wrong before and let go of suspicion based on it.

I've already given thoughts on Rikana i think and they remain unchanged. He's leaning town for me.

The pushing on Bristep hard calling him scum, whilst being against the Malp lynch and Bristep still dying night 1 makes me feel it an unlikely scenario a team of scum with him onboard would have killed Bristep. His posts come across genuine and he does seem to be actively scum hunting.

IS - you're still far from town in my eyes.

I still believe there must be scum on my wagon by now, still the most scummiest vote on me in my view was Locke's.

@Locke -

The fact that he came in right as other people were trying to get things going and just ignored the state of the game to start a series of random questions speaks to me of a desire to bog down the game in pointless discussion rather than find scum.

Firstly, it was my #3 post, it was page 2, not a lot was going on.
What do you think i was trying to draw attention away from? Somebody in particularly i would have been defending or was i just stopping discussion in general? I've already noted it was perhaps not the best move, but certainly not a scum tell. I have found previously RQS has generated discussion which has led to real talking points in the game. Do tell me what of the 'state of the game' by that point i was ignoring.

You also said you'd come back with more, which you haven't - because i was saying you're likely the scum on my wagon or just hoping your vote gets forgotten about?

[SomeRandomGuy]

IS, who do you think is the member of the scumteam taking the lead in this game?

Yabba is the only white knight that I see, but im not ready to take him down just yet. I want to see some flips first, like RandomGuy. Im pretty confident that he is scum. The lack of votes indicate to me that we are right and the scum are playing a wait and see game to see if the wagon fizzles.

Again setting up your already perhaps policy style lynches?

@locke:


1)So is it normal for you to spend several days at the start of the game without putting any effort into finding scum?
2)Is it normal for you to ignore the interactions between other players?
3) What do you think you got out of RQS that helped you to scumhunt, and why did you prefer that to analysing the existing arguments in the game?
4) Why do you think I'm scum when all I seem to have done is some fairly accurate analysis of your D1 play?
As far as I can tell, you agree with what I've said in terms of how you've played, but your defence is that other people have done the same things as you have.

1) Not especially, no but nothing was catching my eye, this was page 2 - not far into the game and suspects by then are only going to be so in a 'day 1' suspect way - not a lot of information, nothing much to go on, i was waiting for something which actually caught my eye.

2) I didn't feel I had anything to add to the just starting conversation at that time, it didn't strike me as too telling and keeping an eye on it was all i felt necessary

3) I got absolutely nothing from it, I have in the past, I've found it to be a nice opener previously (again check my newbie 1117) and you can see that it had results there, the game is ongoing and I've not flipped so i can't prove anything in the way of my alignment and meta from it.

4) The speed in which you put your vote, before even finishing your read of the game, because most of the things in which you accused me of by that point could easily be said about other people. You hadn't even incorporated the argument about me being wishy-washy day 2, it just seemed a little bare bones, I felt that you (as others have done admittedly) had made an assumption about motives for something which i had done in a pro-town way which paint it as scum. I just had a bad feeling about the vote, the fact you've came back with more and some ACTUAL questions helps ease it some. It just seems you'd have a perfect opportunity to jump onto a wagon, drop straight into the game no issue.

I'm not going to argue these points any more, it's not getting me anywhere. All I'll say is that I am town, if you lynch me, when I flip town, i hope that you'll have some VCA to go on which will lead you to real scum.

Im pretty confident that he is scum. The lack of votes indicate to me that we are right and the scum are playing a wait and see game to see if the wagon fizzles.

The same could be said of votes on you also, couldn't it?
I'd be a fantastic counter wagon, perhaps your scum team doesn't want to pile on too quickly?

[SomeRandomGuy]

Damn it, that was so incredibly anti-town jam... oh well, another townie down.

[SomeRandomGuy]

I'd strongly suggest in the next day Jam is looked at, not allowing a claim with plenty of time to go - perhaps he has made a slip recently that has yet to be noticed and wanted to get this over with quickly?

[SomeRandomGuy]

Top suspects from me:
Jam - Has appeared scummy previously at times and i don't see pro-town reasoning for the hammer.
IS - He's just so blatent with it, probably why i find myself a little more confused than before, there is space for him to be town. I didn't like the 'next person to vote must be scum' and it's part of the reason i voted him, not only to prove such blanket statements wrong, but because it's pre-determined and that doesn't sit well, i didn't see pro-town reasoning for it and his play since hasn't inspired much town vibes for me.
Locke - Didn't initially like his vote, but he's explained it well and i'm happier to believe his innocence.

I actually find you give me a town read yabba, you're asking the right questions, seemingly openly. I also find Rikana to seem town, a lot of it is gut, but he seems genuine which is more than a few people right now. Pere is pretty null, he's probably someone i would be keeping my eye on, but the argument with rikana seems to come down to semantics. Sky, Swift and Emp all seem pretty null at the moment to me, perhaps swift / sky leaning slightly town and emp being completely null.

[SomeRandomGuy]

Oh and i missed FS out - town read, again gut but i'd take a bet on it.

[SomeRandomGuy]

Feel free to ask any more specifics and i'll try to give you some before snakes arrival. Hopefully me flipping town will help with suspects.

[SomeRandomGuy]

Well, I think Rikana just summed it up fairly perfectly to be honest.

there were a few times where he mentioned 'If x happens Y is scum' - these type of predetermined thoughts don't help at all, his content in day 1 was sketchy, whilst people accused me of trying to steer the game off course, i was at least trying to steer the game to some sort of discussion of which not much was happening at the time.

There're not many points IS has raised against me which can't be flipped on him in someway and none of it was solely based on my alignment, but things he perceived wrongly.

The reason i went after IS was because of that, the reason i continued was because his responses were not satisfactory - Jam does seem scummy, he has done a little in this game, but up until his hammer on me, I had IS over him by a good yard.

[SomeRandomGuy]

The ONLY thing that ever made me feel less certain of him was his aggressive play style, in the other site i play on, that's usually a good town identifier BUT i have made wrong decisions because of reads gained from it.

[SomeRandomGuy]

I mean look at the vote counts:

He started the Jam wagon Day 2, it went for a while, then the wagon on me came along, started by yabba and he jumped onto that... that leaves possibility for them both to be scum, he's calling enough people 'deffo scum' or close to that he's able to leave old cases behind without issue. It also could be that the Jam wagon stalled a bit, mine started and looked like it could go the full distance and he was better on that one.

He also was heavily involved in the Malp lynch and whilst i agreed with that case that brings his total to 2 town lynches, acting hella scummy at times and generally being the one to watch right now.

[SomeRandomGuy]

EBWOP when i said 'that leaves possibility for boh of them to be scum' i meant Jam + IS although both does seem slightly unlikely, but it would be great distancing.

[SomeRandomGuy]

from awaiting my dead mans topic invite to being alive still? Well, I'm obviously glad to still be here, next time i'll make sure to check the previous vote count properly before I roll over dead...

It would have been interesting to have seen IS's reaction at that point, it's a shame he wasn't online as i feel it could have offered something - Jam's 'Hammer' obviously screamed as being scummy to me - his explaination whilst plausible seems a little bit weaksauce, The ONLY reservation i have on his lynch is that it seemed clumsy... but, that being said it had me fooled I'd just have expected scum to notice it. I'm in favour of either a Jam lynch or an IS one. I didn't like that 'hammer' at all, it wasn't pro-town and i still don't like IS's play.

I'll leave my vote where it is for now but will switch accordingly dependant on who is up for lynch.

[SomeRandomGuy]

Ok, had a bit of a read of things, sorry i haven't posted much today but I've been a little busy.

Jam's appology sounded genuine, I didn't like the 'scum wont nk me' thing and I had noticed the soft claim. I think Swift brings about a good point, in that at the time of making it Jam fully expected a night phase to work. After that apology post however, if he hadn't have been targetted by scum (if town) i'd have been shocked, it was quite blatent.

IS: My opinion matters as much as anyone elses here and certainly more than anyone who is scum, at least with me the intention is good, something we can't say about 3~ players here. If you wish to disregard anything i say, feel free. I was trying to get as much information on my thoughts out as possible, maybe some of my suspicions are wrong, maybe one or two are right - it's a bloody good job it's not down to just one of us to make all the lynches based on only our own opinion, isn't it? You'd have made mistake number 2 by now.

You're starting to throw threats of lynching around very aggressively, is there anyone you haven't called scum / threatened to get lynched? Perhaps if we eliminate all the people you haven't we'd be left with 3 or 4, including yourself, that would be a nice coincidence

Re: JAM & SRG- Yes, it was a horrible hammer, but SRG had some crappy play before that, and was my second choice. His post-hammer play has improved, but JAM has been working to explain himself.

So who is now your biggest scum read (after rikana if he is #1)? you don't seem to be very clear, i had some crappy play before and it's now improved, Jam has been working to explain himself... but who do you suspect?

[SomeRandomGuy]

Ok, had a bit of a read of things, sorry i haven't posted much today but I've been a little busy.

Jam's appology sounded genuine, I didn't like the 'scum wont nk me' thing and I had noticed the soft claim. I think Swift brings about a good point, in that at the time of making it Jam fully expected a night phase to work. After that apology post however, if he hadn't have been targetted by scum (if town) i'd have been shocked, it was quite blatent.

IS: My opinion matters as much as anyone elses here and certainly more than anyone who is scum, at least with me the intention is good, something we can't say about 3~ players here. If you wish to disregard anything i say, feel free. I was trying to get as much information on my thoughts out as possible, maybe some of my suspicions are wrong, maybe one or two are right - it's a bloody good job it's not down to just one of us to make all the lynches based on only our own opinion, isn't it? You'd have made mistake number 2 by now.

You're starting to throw threats of lynching around very aggressively, is there anyone you haven't called scum / threatened to get lynched? Perhaps if we eliminate all the people you haven't we'd be left with 3 or 4, including yourself, that would be a nice coincidence

BZZT! WRONG!

You cant int he same breath try to act like giving scum information when you thought you were dead was actually a good thing and in the same fucking post gobble up JAM as if he was the god damn pope while at the same time vilifying me because I dont want the scum to get an edge.

Like I said, Yabba asking for info so blatantly like that is a scummy behavior trying to gauge how townie feelings are like so they know who to kill and who to lynch next. A scummy ass white knight will use the goodwill of a town flip to go after the dead man's suspects knowing its a good way to railroad another mislynch. Dont forget that scum KNOW the alignments, you dont know shit. If you happen to name their buddies, they will kill someone that was ina "feud" with another player (Peregrine/Rikana as an example) and create conspiracies away from their buddies.

That also goes on to say that there is no guarantee that RandomGuy will flip town anyways. Either way, stop giving the scum info like that upon your impending death. If those are your opinions now, great, we will take them with a grain of salt before then. In the middle of the day, its different. Yabba was clearly fishing for NKbait and you fell for it.

I wasn't attempting to make Jam look good there, more just thinking out loud - I'm still in favour of his lynch, after reading swifts comments on the apology post and after i found it to make sense.

Well, whilst i'm open to believing that yabba could have been looking for information for a NK or something I find it unlikely - my read on him suggests otherwise and surely one persons views isn't too likely to make a night kill? Still though, it all leads down to NK analysis which is almost always bogged down with WIFOM and seems to give town a bogus lynch candidate most of the time.

If I did fall for yabba fishing for scum information there, I'll feel extremely stupid but I still don't think that's the case right now.

[SomeRandomGuy]

Dont you find it peculiar that RandomGuy himself isnt voting for JAM, the person that tried to bring the axe down on his head? If one flips scum, the other must be scum too.

Already explained that.

Anyway I think it's time we take this one step further.

VOTE: JamFTW

That's L-1.

[SomeRandomGuy]

and again you're setting up pre judgements.

Why exactly if Jam flips scum (which seems like a good bet at this point) would I have to be?

[SomeRandomGuy]

Only your delay in voting for him. Despite your "reasons" (what was that again, that JAM apologized? really?), you didnt vote for him until I called you out.

Nah, not the apology, that didn't change my real view on him at all, i just mentioned it sounded genuine, I still think he's scum. I never stated a reason outright i don't think but i mentioned how I supported either a lynch on yourself or Jam and would leave my vote where it was for the time being (on you) and move it if needed later on and as bad as this sounds, in some way - I wanted to be the one to hammer, repayment in kind and the satisfaction that comes when he flips scum would make me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

Your calling out of me, didn't really fuel my vote on Jam, if anything it was more the vote count, I hate counting votes, I always miss one.

[SomeRandomGuy]

When i say repayment in kind - I'm not suggesting I wouldn't have awaited a claim, I would have. Just making that clear since it's not the best wording :p

[SomeRandomGuy]

From the way JAM is explaining it, he clearly never knew such a role existed before the game began

I've just done a check through his posts, there wasn't too much to go through outside of this game, there is no mention, either by him or from what i can see anybody else of a jailkeeper in the threads he has posted at least not near to his post. However he did post a setup for review which lists a lot of different roles, some of which i wasn't sure on without reading through, the idea that he's never heard of a jailkeeper doesn't sit too well with me due to that.

Jam - Had you heard of a jailkeeper previously?

[SomeRandomGuy]

5 minutes before the claim... I really don't want to believe that is the inspiration for the claim - it also doesn't mention the mechanics of the role there, he'd have had to read that post, look the role up on the wiki come back here and claim it (assuming he didn't know the jailkeeper role). If he did know the role, it could have served as a reminder but 5 minutes to have viewed that (assuming he read it the moment it was posted) and then post is still quite quick. I'm not by any means saying i believe his claim, I don't - the fact he didn't mention the action of night 1 (which could well help to give us information on a townie or at least eliminate someone from being yesterdays killer) with the claim is odd, especially given IS had told him he had just ONE post to explain himself well or he'd hammer.

Also:

I'll do what I can tonight to lessen the damage I've caused.

I doubt I'll be able to pull this around in time, but here's hoping I can help out during the next day.

The bolded sounded like it was going to be a doctor / jailkeeper claim (lessen the damage = Stop someone getting killed?) However, the latter part 'I doubt i'll be able to pull this around in time' doesn't really make sense, It could refer to the possibility he could protect someone there would be no kill and he'd be able to say 'X was who i targetted' which leaves a 50/50 of that person being scum / town. I initially read this soft claim to be about a cop however via the sound of it, the last bit seemed to heavily suggest a possibility of him finding scum but thinking back, as a whole the wording fits more with what he is now claiming.

I honestly don't understand his soft claiming at all, if town he made himself a possible target for the night phase, if this had happened he would have been unable to get us ANY information the next day, not from the previous night, not from that night. I mean it was extremely unlikely he would have been hit prior to his soft claim, the scum (if he was town) could easily steer a mislynch at him the next day and he'd have had very easy passage to have at least get the town 2 night results before his lynch day 3. The thing is it's painted almost as though regardless of a very obvious soft claim he was still unlikely to be killed - it's an out for not getting killed that night phase come the next day but from a town point of view it makes NO sense after the soft claim.

[SomeRandomGuy]

I've a good feeling about this one!

[SomeRandomGuy]

Ah, so you were telling the truth then? :/

[SomeRandomGuy]

We dont know, could be a desperate attempt at... making us feel guilty. Trying to make us more gun shy when we are lynching the next scumbag.

lets hope so. Now hurry up snake damnit, i hate waiting for lynch results <.<

[SomeRandomGuy]

Actually Jam you have a point - wouldn't it just make town more likely to throw such things to the side? If anything surely it'd only affect making believing a towns claim.

[SomeRandomGuy]

Killing Empking is a very odd kill. He wasn't onto anyone, he didn't hint that he had a power role. Hell Empking barely did anything.

I'd say that maybe the reason in itself. Maybe scum thought it was indicative of a PR, perhaps they killed him simply because his involvement has been low and there's not a lot for the town to make out of it. In my experience when scum try killing someone to set someones else up it's very unstable, in that the town often views it as a stitch up attempt and goes after people they think might instigate it etc, i've seen it blow up in peoples faces.

What i'd say is for the reason people who haven't been too vocal need to be, Bristep also seemed like a fairly random kill and if that's what the scum are aiming for we need to try and limit it. I'm not a massive advocater of NK analysis because of all the wifom that often comes with it, but it would be nice if they didn't have any free kills and they had to think of that themselves.

@Yabba - If Empking had still been alive and one of your 'massive question mark' people were to have lived, how would you have placed him?

[SomeRandomGuy]

ebwop 'one of your massive question mark people had of been killed'

[SomeRandomGuy]

I was just wondering, I had no idea about empking either, he seemed pretty invisible for me. I've had a look through Empkings posts and to say there was little there would almost be an understatement. All i can see there is that he's suspected FS at times, without putting too much of an arguement in, he's suspected me and had a vote on Jam at one point.

[SomeRandomGuy]

The activity is awful again!

@Mod

: Massprod everyone who hasn't posted yet and I request a massprod at the start of each subsequent Day.

Can only agree with this.

@Sky
You mention Rikana having votes on neither of the flips, how do you feel about the fact some people have been on both? I'm only asking since the lack of lynch votes from rikana has caught your attention, it would be interesting to see what you feel of the polar opposite.

[SomeRandomGuy]

Sorry i haven't been active the past day or so, plenty going on had friends over last night and a BBQ at my dads today.

Anyway, I'm not sure how to read this one however:

Youre calling four people scum, ergo, you should have no issue voting for any of them, but you dont vote for them, why?

I didn't read it as him calling the 4 people listed scum, just that he was suspicious of them or had question marks next to them, this seems like a bit of a misrep?

I need to do some more read throughs, i've read the cases from both swift and yabba but have yet to read all the links to other posts and such and feel i need to do so. Yabba himself still doesn't read as scum to me with what i've read so far though, I'm not sure i particularly agree with his case but it seems to come from a sincere place.

[SomeRandomGuy]

Yeah, somehow i didn't read the 'obv town' bits or at least forgot of them (i often see that as white noise). In his defence on not putting a vote down however, that's still 4 with likely only 3 scum in the game i'd probably have wanted to rid myself of some of the vagueness in thoughts first too. However it seems like finger pointing with little involved. I'm actually a little concerned that the low posters for the most part are the ones coming under fire, it seems really odd that we've had low posters killed by the scum and it seems like we're being directed toward them - whilst i'd like to hear more from them and don't think Sky is looking good right now it seems like a bit of 'easy lynch' foder to point us toward them.

I had 3 hours sleep last night, so expect little from me in the coming few hours I'll get out some real content and actual cases tomorrow.

[SomeRandomGuy]

SRG is still being a useless blob

As explained, it's been a busy few days and the day phase hasn't been with us long, don't you worry, i'll be posting more and well as soon as i've had more than a few hours sleep and getting involved more again, i don't intend to slip back into the realms of uselessness for long.

[SomeRandomGuy]

Wow, i was actually writting a response and was looking for something to quote from this page when i noticed this post. I think this changes things quite a lot.

I still don't buy yabba as scum though, he's one of my stronger town reads - call it gut from the conviction in his posts but he's got me convinced he's gunning at swift for the right reasons. The thing is the argument between swift and yabba seems to be in the same mindset that the pere vs rikana one was earlier in the game, mainly based off wording and such. I find swift to be null, leaning town but not a strong read, i was reading the yabba / swift argument as town on town and i'm not sure that has changed here.

@swift - You mentioned a sky / yabba team as scum, if we're to believe sky's claim (which i find myself doing) that obviously can't be true - does that change your opinion on yabba at all?

I didn't buy the sky / yabba scum team, i was quite suspicious of sky for the mentioning of rikana's not voting on the town lynches and not mentioning the other side of the coin until questioned, it seemed odd, i didn't like it. infact the post i was just writting up was going to include and FoS or Vote on Sky depending upon the vote count which i still haven't checked.

IS was quite quick to believe Sky there too, why is that IS? I know why i believe this claim to be true but why do you? You were very quick to unvote and switch to yabba there...

[SomeRandomGuy]

(i don't feel we should outright allow IS to be 'confirmed town' even if sky is being truthful - it's a gunsmith and not a cop for a reason) I know it brings the chances down, but it's not pro-town to eliminate him completely.

[SomeRandomGuy]

Every Mafioso has a gun I'd imagine, I've never heard of a Gunless Mafia or whatever you'd call it, and it doesn't sound Normal.

Would a jailkeeper possess a gun?

Ah, i've just played some games off site where the godfather simply couldn't be investigated, i wasn't sure if that'd mean he didn't have a gun or not - having played more on the site i'd happily conclude that you guys will know better on that one and that's even assuming there's a godfather in the game at all. If that's the case that they'd all have guns, i'm happy to believe (as long as skys claim is or stays confirmable) that IS is not scum down to that - but damnit IS, you had me thinking you were very heavily in the previous day phase.

[SomeRandomGuy]

I don't think it's all that relevant who I jailed last night, but if you'd like to know, I tossed smallpeoples in.

I was just reading back to see whether sky posted after this - she didn't. It's a damn shame too because if Jam hadn't thought it was irrelevant and posted early enough for sky to have seen, Sky probably wouldn't have left her vote there, smallpeoples as IS pointed out after by hammering based on that claim of protection wasn't a likely protection so Sky would have pretty much KNOWN he was telling the truth.

[SomeRandomGuy]

I loved the public service announcement there yabba.

The case you make though for ruling people out doesn't rule yourself out either, you're in the same situation as FS in terms of being 'on that isn't muddied up in this way'. Should people be considering you in that way?

[SomeRandomGuy]

The point i was going to make is that where as it's not muddied up by a possible town tell, it's not necessarily the place we should focus. FS hasn't been incredibly clean this game and he's inactive etc but that doesn't mean just because there's no town tell of some description he should automatically be accused just like i've a feeling it would maybe not be the best action on you either. I mean where as there is no town tell muddying it up there's not alot to make him scum and someone in that town tell thing is likely to be scum, maybe even 2 depending on setup and whether or not you're scum. I think we'd be better seeing if there's anything to be found outside of the non muddied.

You still read as town to me yabba, i was just questioning the reasoning behind focussing on FS at this point.

[SomeRandomGuy]

I'm really sorry about the v/la i previously had and that i'm going to need to take another. Things got a little hectic in my life not long after joining the game and i'm moving houses tomorrow, very short notice i know, but i didn't know for sure until yesterday. If the Mod feels he wants to replace me or if people feel it's the best idea then i'm ok with that. If not i'll do my best to post each day or at the least each 2 days. Again, really sorry but it's uncontrolable at this point but from the 18th onward i'm completely fine to play.

It's going to sound odd me saying this with that in mind but we have to be more active as a whole, i feel the scums kill of Emp was likely due to complacency, they obviously didn't feel threatened and lack of activity isn't going to change that at this point.

We still need to hear from FS, Rikana your posting has been a little more shaky in day 2 but i still see town, yabba i still see town in you aswell, Sky + IS are seemingly the closest we have to confirmed both of which i didn't like the look of prior to skys claim so i'm feeling a little in the middle of no where. I really wish there was a reason to disbelieve his claim or to prove it 100%.

Sky - what i would ask you is this: Why didn't you pull your vote off of Jam in wait for the reveal on who he used his ability on when you could have cleared him? there was no massive rush and you could have tried to push the wagon else where without outting yourself.

Swift - Answer my question about yabba - you noted before he likely was partnered with Sky but it seems that can't be true - so does that change your view on him at all?

IS - If Sky had made the claim but cleared your top suspect at this point, would you have believed it?

FS - get in here!

[SomeRandomGuy]

Oh, I see. I thought you were referring to SRG acting disappointed that we'd lynched town-JAM. Yeah, I guess that looks more townish. My issue with that is we have no real way of telling whether he knew he was lynched or not. There was a votecount on the previous page and Empking quickly clarified it wasn't L-1 when you said it was. SRG posted between then and the point that JAM 'hammered', so I'm not sure that he would have been unaware that he hadn't been lynched. I'm less inclined to put stock in things like that at the moment because I just came from a game where scum (Twistedspoon) pretended that he thought he'd hammered his buddy Farside and then asked if he'd won the game, just to buy towncred for Farside. That's far more outlandish than scum simply knowing that they hadn't been lynched and acting like they were.

Well, i'm not going to claim to be confirmed townie but i can tell you that I honestly thought i was lynched. Yes, there's scope for me to be lying about that, but that's really something you'll have to judge yourself like with the other town tells it's possible it's meaningless, I don't think anyone should treat me as confirmed town at this point, because of that or anything else i said.

[SomeRandomGuy]

Got internet access for a short while, but it seems there's nothing more really here :/ I'll be back with a post before the deadline i expect.

[SomeRandomGuy]

Well, at least now we know that Sky wasn't lying and we can clear IS, i've yet to read through from where i was last at but will do so today and post thoughts. Sucks that we may be in MYLO but hopefully we can bag us a scum tonight and get this game going in the right direction. Again appologies, i completely missed the end of the last day phase it was nmuch harder to get the internet than i had thought but i've moved into my new place and virgin has installed it all for me today hell, the bills even all up to date! so that's at least 2 months until i get cut off even if i don't pay my bills!

[SomeRandomGuy]

Right so i've read up to this point. I don't understand the pushing for Sky to be lynched last day phase, there surely would have been better ways of trying to prove or disprove the claim than going ahead and lynching sky at that point - there was no counter claim, nothing to suggest we should regard Sky as a liar. Yes her actions in regards to Jam were a little suspect and yes the role may or may not have been a completely normal but isn't it 2 variations allowed per game or something? it's not exactly a massive difference in the role anyway.

I fancy either David or Locke for scum at the moment but in my eyes - Not both, it's a very risky play to have put both onto a lynch of a gunsmith, especially if there are 3 scum as we'd be in LYLO now (if scum then took out a town last night) and they wouldn't have gotten the victory automatically and without someone to push the blame onto because the 2 main people on the lynch would have been both scum they'd have lost someone for sure. One of them scum? Probably. Both? Unlikely.

The issue is i can't see any other partnerships at the moment, david and Locke just seem too likely but in all of the wrong ways. I'm going to ISO both (and the people they replaced) plus do a bit of general reading. The Malp wagon is interesting, i'm going to look again at the wagon on me as whilst i can't expect anyone else to take it as 100% I atleast can and it was practically a lynch and I feel there was likely scum on it.

Also a quick note to all:

Don't place more than 1 vote on any one person at a time - if this is MYLO and we do have 3 scum, whilst unlikely it could lead to a hammer that we don't want, so no one voting David for now at least please.

[SomeRandomGuy]

Even if there is the small posibility of IS being scum he is the closest we have to being confirmed town, i've had real suspicion of him in the past but that takes a complete back burner now. It would be a mistake akin to the almost lynching of Sky if we were to focus on him.

David you mentioned a few posts back:

You know, you're either Scum tunneling on an easy target, or you're an idiot. I'm inclined to the former.

and now you're not mentioning him in your top 3 suspects... which is it?

I was out late last night and at a wedding reception tonight so i'm going to have to do those iso's tomorrow as i didn't get chance yet.

[SomeRandomGuy]

There is deffinatly a subtle difference between the questions Swift and i've played with you enough that i know you're just nit picking. I think you're bussing your partner since you know he's caught, I'm with Yabba on this one. You've actually managed to pull yourself from a null read to scum #2 for me, I said that i didn't think Locke + David were a team but i didn't know who david's fellow scum were and now i've got it i believe.

VOTE: David Xanatos

FoS: SwiftStrike

I'm looking at you next, swift.

[SomeRandomGuy]

@SRG. Look again at what Yabba has been saying. Look at what he is pushing me on look at his inconsistencies the whole game, go back and ISO him. Even just look at the last post

no way the mod actually tells you, and YOU KNEW THAT.

Consider the number of games we have played together where it has been confirmed that we are at Mylo and why it would be unreasonable to ask that question after his nothing question, that he now tries to play as informative.

Look at his play when it comes to David, he has been protecting the slot all along subtly moving focus away and now jumping upon it as a bus to try gain back town cred.

Also you say that I'm just nitpicking, you and I have played together enough is that a scum tell or a town tell for me? I'm not asking you to believe me but I am asking you to go back and read Yabba without the blinkers of him calling you town earlier and just read him and then think about where you want to vote tomorrow.

I won't vote David just yet as I really want to see what Peregrine has to say in response to Ant's question and it would be nice to see Ant respond to his own question as well.

Placeholder for a vote.

FOS DAVID

Since i brought up the meta discussion i'll at least answer the question of what it usually means - it's often a null tell, you've never been one i accurately read often however the subtle differences of the questions make enough of a difference that I feel the need to look at you more closely and i swear to god, one of these days I'll catch you out good and proper.

Yes, on the other board it is sometimes revealed when we're at MYLO even in closed setups, however the last time that happened it was a full cult game and town were running around like headless chickens and didn't even get one good lynch - perhaps the mod had a wee bit of mercy? I'm not sure i've ever seen it in one of snakes games though.

Either way, i'm looking at you and i'll also re-read Yabba too it would be stupid not to but if i had to wage a bet between the two at this moment, i'd say i'd go after you. I just don't like the recent play of yours in regards to david.

I'm sure enough of Davids guilt at this point due to other reactions that the question for me isn't 'are we doing right by this?' as opposed to 'who is his partner in crime' at this point. Also, he hasn't been hammered yet, if this is MYLO i'd say he'd likely have been hammered by now.

[SomeRandomGuy]

Also:

I am asking you to go back and read Yabba without the blinkers of him calling you town

You really think that's enough to effect my play? He also led a band wagon on me it's got nothing to do with his thoughts on me. As i've said though I am not going to go into tomorrow set on lynching one of you without reading.

[SomeRandomGuy]

Ugh. I had a horrible feeling that SRG reaction was fake but it's just so hard to pin down when someone does that.

In some ways i actually didn't like resorting to that. The game really did start becoming scum sided from that point, Jam your vote looked scummy there make sure you count properly in future, Sky, if you have possible information do something to slow down the lynch, if you had of done even a no lynch would likely have been better than killing Jam that lynch.

I enjoyed the game, i'd like to once again appologise for my inactivity at points, it wasn't actually scum motivated rather a few issues coming up.

Oh i'm ok with the mafia QT being released btw, so pere / swift it's up to you guys

[SomeRandomGuy]

http://www.quicktopic.com/46/H/6qeTQvm4tEsq/p-1.-1

since all have said it's ok and i believe it's alright to post