Mini 301: Berry Kingdom Mafia II -- (Game Over!!)

[ziliu]

vote: Cherry

. Easiest. Lynch. Evar.™

[ziliu]

Haha, you're serious Lloyd?

[ziliu]

Commodre Amazing vote hoppes all the time. That doesn't make him scummy. I'm more suspicious of the people that bandwagon him.

Since ziliu picked up hints that the daykill was a joke, I executed him.

How very kind of you...

For now, Bacde's putting a third vote on Lloyd for joking on April Fools day seems most scummy.

unvote, vote: Bacde

.

[ziliu]

Sorry, forgot about this game.

I'm not the SK.

Then again, I don't think an SK would counterclaim CA at this point, an SK could just kill him at night and stay undercover.

My gut feeling says CA is mafia and not SK. His claim shows a lot of similarities to me in Mini 285 where I was mafia claiming SK. I'm not willing to risk everything based on gut feeling, so CA can live another day.

Re-read coming up.

[ziliu]

I re-read and I don't think anyone really is scummy. If I had to choose though, I'd go for saying Bacde is scum.

Mostly for

Where are you guys getting these gut feelings on Ciprian? I'd love to join the bandwagon if I knew why.

followed by Coron telling him to view all posts by ciprian, and then:

Coron, you should have assumed that I already did that. Because I did. I'm no dummy when it comes to trying to do the work myself.

I guess his whole "Posting mental notes is scummy" Tyrade is pretty stupid. Either way, voting Ciprian is better than no vote at all, and I think Lloyd stopped being so crazy.

Unvote; Vote: Ciprian

Note that there's nothing that has changed during the 25 minutes between Bacde's first post and his second, since he claimed he already read all posts by ciprian, yet in the first post Bacde implies he doesn't have a clue why ciprian is scummy, and then blatantly throws a vote on ciprian. Asking for reasons/approval for bandwagonning, and joining the bandwagon as soon as approval is received is inherently scummy.

[ziliu]

You mean other than me thinking you're being scummy? No, not at all.

[ziliu]

If I had to guess another scum, honestly right now I'd say ziliu for accusing me and doing nothing about it when he doesn't get much approval from others. It goes both ways.

Alright. You asked for it,

vote: Bacde

.

I didn't vote because I weren't sure about you. When thinking about it, you seem scummier now. The let's lynch the SK would very well just be a mistake, but it still tips the scales against you.

If not voting you is what you mean by "doing nothing about it", that is. Otherwise I have no idea what you're saying I should do. Daykill you, or what? [/joke]

And at least TheCesspit seems to approve with my thoughts. I don't think your Amelialay vote gains much approval. Just FYI.

[ziliu]

I still like my Bacde vote, that's why I'm not posting more; I've got nothing to add. Except maybe I think Ameliaslay is a little scummy too.

I don't like no-lynch. At all. Very likely to mean we're dead.

[ziliu]

If you look at my post by post analysis of Bacde, I can't see why you'd think he's scum. This could mean I've made an assumption thats wrong, and I would have expected some response on it from the anti-Bacde camp.

If your sure Bacde is scum, why aren't you making noises to encourage us towards making a decision? Being quiet after just making your own decision is a bit... well quiet!

I don't think "making noises to encourage us towards making a decision" benefits town. I don't want to manipulate you guys into a decision, I want you to reach the decision independently, providing your own reasoning. If I really started making a huge case against Bacde, if he is innocent, it would be too easy for scum to jump on. It'd be too easy for scum to jump on if he is scum too for that matter, no, I'm more of the lay back and observer-player, I want everybody to provide there own reasoning for their actions, only then can we find scum. 'nough said.

Though it is a little bit quiet here, so I'll comment the PBPA of yours.

Post 33... Bacde moves vote onto Lloyd after his joke.

Post 49... Bacde defned making a third vote on Lloyd for his April Fools dya joke, as "If 3rd vote = scum, then we'd never lynch anyone." (his words). His vote had nothing to do with the other two votes on him. Which is odd.

I still do stand by my comment on Bacde's 3rd vote; I was not saying that the fact that it was the 3rd vote was scummy

per se

, but the fact that the reasoning for that 3rd vote was so crappy, he voted Lloyd for two jokes,

admitting that they were only jokes

.

Post 58... Bacde defends Ciprian's 'your side' comment. Ciprian, we know is Town, so would be odd to defend this slip that had been pounced upon by Y2, instead of supporting a potential lynch, if he were scum.

WIFOM. Actually, I think that posts makes it more likely Bacde's scum. I don't think the your side-reason had much merit, (which is easy to say for me in retrospect, but whatever), but the point is, I don't like the way Bacde defended ciprian there. A pro-town, IMHO, would be more careful of defending somebody because they couldn't really know if ciprian were scum or not, whereas a scum, knowing that ciprian was innocent, would see it as an opportunity to gain some innocence for later on... (cont.)

Post 68... Then votes Ciprian (some time later) with the reason "I guess his whole "Posting mental notes is scummy" Tyrade is pretty stupid. Either way, voting Ciprian is better than no vote at all, and I think Lloyd stopped being so crazy." This was the 3rd vote.

(cont.)... except that won't really work if the town didn't know ciprian was innocent, hence, it's better if scum lynch him to make sure.

Also, add my comments to those two posts in post 137.

Then CA finishes Ciprian him off for the day with the semi-cop claim and call for a doctor protection. In post 73. That was a quick lynch.

Post 86... Bacde avoid an early 2nd lynch, but points at Y2 and CA. We know CA laters claims SK, but he was forced to.

Post 98... Bacde votes for CA, with the good reason that he's bitten of more than he can chew.

Y2 then fingers Bacde, mentioning a speedlynch.

Post 102... Bacde unvotes due to the CA claim.

Up until now, Bacde has shown pro-town behaviour and I no suspicion from me. The next post was got me thinking.

As you probably see, I don't agree with that. First, #98 is a small scum-tell in itself, I still think a pro-town would be more careful, and realise lynching the SK meant goodbye. Bacde votes CA, maybe hoping for a quick-lynch, and doesn't unvote till Yosarian tells him to. Very scummy.

Post 114 ... In response to Y2's list of possible scum: "In making a list, excluding yourself on the basis "I know I am protown" is a highly anti-progress thing to do. " I disagree. Everyone will always say they are pro-town (unless already claimed or proven, I guess), so didn't see this as anti-progress.

I actually agree that including yourself is more pro-town, but I do believe a true townie or a careful scumbag would exclude themselves. I don't like Bacde's quick attack on Yosarian2 though; I read it as trying to start an accusation.

Post 134: bacde votes Ameliasaly for not getting the right finding scum vibes. Weak, but re-reading there's been little input from her to this point.

Post 142: Bacde points out the lynch or lose situation, and that killing the SK would end the game if there's the standard 3 Mafia.

Post 148: Bacde asks me a direct question. "@TheCesspit- What part of what I am saying seems to be intended to misdirect? "

In answer, after this long post-by-post.

UnFOS

Nothing. I was going with the gut on one comment, NOT on the actual content through out. I don't think you're right in your assesment that your the only one looking for scum, but I do think you ARE looking for scum.

I would say that Ziliu or Ameliaslaty are the quietest up until recently, and I didn't really see much of interest from either. They've recently been circling Bacde, but there's plenty I see that suggests we should look else where.

[ziliu]

Ugh, ziliu your post was so riddled full of holes it makes me begin to suspect you as top suspect.
[...]
You admit that it is WIFOM, and then go on to argue that it makes me more likely scum? What are you trying to pull here? I think you also missed the part where I made it clear I was defending ciprian's word choice, rather than him as a player. Read please.

Just as Yosarian said, if person A says person B is scum because of [reason], and person C says [reason] is not a valid reason, I consider person C to be defending person B.

I say that my first reaction was "WIFOM!", but when I thought a little about it, it's WIFOM pushed a little away from equilibrium, because of the "I'll be defending an innocent" thing.

Stupidest reasoning ever. So you are accusing me of defending ciprian and then lynching him even though I thought he was protown? When did I actually defend

ciprian

, instead of his word choice.

Yes I'm accusing you of first defending Bacde and then lynching him. Defending somebody's word actions counts as defending that person, how else could you defend someone???

Obviously my opinion changed...

So you're saying you first thought ciprian was innocent and then not? But at the same time you still didn't

defend

the person whom you thought to be innocent? Also, it was a very quick change opinion methinks.

You didn't even say

why

it was scummy. Just saying "Very scummy" at the end of a statement doesn't make it true. I think you were clawing at the idea that my vote was an intended vote to create a quick-lynch, but that doesn't even make any logical sense.
Were I scum, then a quick lynch couldn't have happened because the quick-lynch principal assumes that all scum vote for a particular person already.

Voting on a claimed SK, whose lynch, if he were indeed the SK, would hand scum a definite win is scummy. I thought I didn't need to point it out.

With quick-lynch, I meant the possibility that TheCesspit and Lloyd are innocent, and you knew it, and added a vote hoping for your scum-buddies to pile on their two votes, lynching CA, and winning the game. Or if one of TheCesspit and Lloyd are scum, it could be actually you put on the vote to start a bandwagon hoping that an innocent would be uncareful, and your second scumbuddy would hammer. Or it could be that one of TheCesspit, Lloyd are scum, and you thought: "aha, lynch-or-lose, and one innocent has a vote on CA, therefore with three scum votes CA will be lynched," without realising that you needed five votes. Anyway, there are a lot of possibilities, but voting the claimed SK does not put you in a favorable light.

Were I innocent, then I (obviously) wouldn't want a quick-lynch. I figured out that yes, lynching him puts us most likely into a loss. Hell, I could even say that that honest mistake showed I wasn't counting numbers as diligently has I should have, as a scum would have been doing, but that would be WIFOM wouldn't it.

You figured out that lynching him would most likely put us into a loss, yet you voted him, without being more careful and considering other options?? Doesn't sound pro-town to me.

You get a cookie if you can show me where I accused Yosarian of anything besides doing something anti-progress. Honestly, where is it? I still stand by the idea that if you are trying to work with everyone, you can't exclude yourself from the pool. If you are only posting your notes for your own sake, then what is the point of even posting them?

Okay, you didn't accused him for anything besides anti-progress. But I still think, in mafia, any kind of accusation saying somebody's actions do not help the town is an attack casting suspicion on that person. Moreover, since scum usually want to lay low, subtle accusations, trying to manipulate people into believing somebody is suspicious, without actually explicitly saying: "I think you are scum", are even more scummy.

----
Of course, in my entire response to you, I was being overly kind. I don't wish to misrepresent your situation, but I feel very differently than you (obviously). At the moment, I think it is VERY likely that you are scum, and that you voted me thinking that I would be an easy lynch. What I don't think you planned on, was TheCesspit not advocating your lynch. You, realizing that being hypocritical would be scummy (since your main accusation is on the basis that I search for affirmations before I do anything, which is proved false by my actions on Ameliaslay today anyway), decided that keeping your vote on me would be your best choice of action, and are now stuck in a rut, and have decided to keep firing away at me, even though you've got no ammunition left.

Well, bring on the not-so-overly-kind response too. I want to hear. And my vote is on you because I thnk you're scummy. I don't agree with that I haven't got any ammunition left, I think you are avoiding my points.

Besides, that paragraph was very manipulative in tone, and fallacious in logic. It could be just your style of writing, but I don't like it. You are basically saying that because I keep my vote on you, I must be scum, giving an example: "Assuming he were scum, it would be hypocritical to unvote me, and he would keep my vote on me. Ergo, because he's keeping his vote on me, he would be scum." What you don't say is the same argument would hold if I were innocent.

The "since your main accusation is on the basis that I search for affirmations before I do anything, which is proved false by my actions on Ameliaslay today anyway" defense is invalid as well, duh, I am not saying you

always

search for affirmations, just that you did it with ciprian and it was scummy.

In case you wanted to know, yes, when I said "Not doing anything about it" I meant you not voting me. I find it

very

interesting that you didn't vote me until I pretty obviously pointed out that you should follow your suspicions.

I wasn't sure about you back then. And I didn't want to put a vote on you without reading through more carefully. And yes, I admit, it was also because I didn't want to appear hypocritical. But only because I didn't want to appear hypocritical doesn't make me scum.

And besides, the difference is, that you didn't state any opinion of your own in

Where are you guys getting these gut feelings on Ciprian? I'd love to join the bandwagon if I knew why.

,
but only solicited opinions to join an easy bandwagon without risking that someone would attack you for bad reasoning. Nobody could, since you didn't provide any reasoning.

I clearly stated my opinions on you in my #137, methinks as long as I make clear I'm thinking you are scum because of that-and-that, a vote really does nothing but a formal difference.

[ziliu]

I just don't have time to lay out my case until Thurs.

I look forward to you laying out your case.

Ditto.

[ziliu]

unvote

. I'm starting to believe it's too risky to lynch Bacde now, and am leaning towards Cherry, based on lack of commitment in his posts.

I have to admit I do not understand the reasoning against me and Cherry after reading, maybe I'm just slow, but if somebody could clarify, that would be sweet.

Other than that, I think it's a too large assumption to make to say CA is SK.

[ziliu]

Clarification, I'm leaning towards you for non-committal posting, and only for non-committal posting. Some people seem to suspect you and me because we didn't vote for CA, which I don't get.

[ziliu]

So I had decided that I was going to vote for either you or him today. I don't really like his last couple of posts; he seemed to be trying to imply that CA/Turbovolver might not be the SK, without ever explaining why he thought that.

I just thought, the fact that CA/Turbovolver claimed SK does not in any way heighten the possibility that he is the SK. Any experienced scum would, in his situation, claim SK.

Left is then only your point that CA's/Turbovolver's implied cop claim yesterday points at him being scum. I acknowledge the merits of that point, but I do not think that alone is enough to have us all assume CA/Turbovolver is SK.

im a bit confused on why ziliu is being voted for....maybe im missing something or over looked what ever it is but could someone explain that to me?

Well, I think the reasoning goes like: CA/Turbovolver must be SK, CA/Turbovolver wasn't speed-lynched despite being unvoted and voted quite a lot, ergo some lurker, i.e. you and me, have to be scum; the people voting me don't think your scum, ergo I have to be scum. Quite a long shot if you ask me, but whatever.

One major difference between us turbo, is that I want to lynch scum. You, being the sk (since I can't see how you would be mafia), want to slowly kill both sides at the same rate, forcing us to keep you alive. This is why I won't trust a single word you say.

Right now, I think that if Turbovolver is SK, he would want to lynch scum.

ziliu and Cherry,

1) Do you think there is a scum trio?

No idea. But spontaneously, I'd say yes.

2) Currently, who do you suspect as scum?

I tend to believe Cherry is scum. He just doesn't seem to make commitments. Though it could be a newbie/playstyle thing. He wasn't that verbose in his other game here either. But since that's the only thing I can think of right now, I'll go with that.

Assuming Cherry is scum, from my perspective, and since it seems to have come down to Cherry and me, I would expect Cherry's partner(s) to be voting for me, or at least not voting for Cherry. That is: Ameliaslay, Turbovolver, Yosarian2, Lloyd. (Did I miss anyone?)

Upon re-reading, I can see Cherry and Ameliaslay being in it together. Although a rather long-shot, I can see Yosarian2 being in the same scum group as these two.

This is just a possible scum trio, among (from my perspective) 35 different. But it is, until/unless somebody comes up with a better suggestion, a possibility I'm leaning towards right now.

3) Have your suspicions changed drastically since the folloiwng posts?

Post 137:

I re-read and I don't think anyone really is scummy.

Well, since then, I've launched an attack on Bacde, y'know... I don't think Bacde is scum any more, he is giving frustrated-townie vibes on re-read. But right now, I think Ameliaslay and Cherry are scummy.

Ameliaslay, I'd like you to explain on what you meant in your post 164:

That's cool. So who do you think is scum?

I'll keep my poker face for now, and share my suspicions when all of my little ducks are lined up in a row-- that is, I'm biding my time patiently for one more tiny thing.

What were you waiting for?

[ziliu]

Or, the scum trio is indeed Yosarian2, Ameliaslay and Cherry, and Cherry is being careful, (because a townie lynch today does not guarantee mafia win, assuming a scum trio and CA is SK, so mafia probably don't want to give themselves away too easily.) Anyway, I think there are at least one, probably two, scum among the three people voting for me, assuming Cherry is mafia.

Anyway, seeing as I don't want to get lynched before claiming, and I seem to be dangerously near getting speedlynched, I'll claim

I'm a

Cranberry

, the other half of audecesiuvat's masonry, so please unvote me now.

[ziliu]

After ~ 1 1/2 months (since April 17th) spent on Day 2, I'm starting to lose interest in this game.

At this point, I'm starting to lean toward just lynching Cherry. I'd rather not drag this game on any longer by waiting for a replacement.

If scums win, they've out-patienced me.

What do others think?

I haven't lost patience in this game completely. Yet.

I'd say we let the mod at least respond to the request to replace Cherry. If we can't find a replacement, I'm up for just lynching Cherry.

[ziliu]

I don't really like the way ibaesha attacked Lloyd. I do agree that he is not cleared, and it is good for everybody to have a fair share of suspicion cast on them, but I tend to read her post as a desperate attempt to try to drag the town's probably most useful power role down with her in the fall.

[ziliu]

Hmm, that wagon rolled fast. Although I still have my suspicions on Ameliasly, it's almost like I'm willing to believe Ameliaslay's innocence just on the basis that I don't a wagon on a mafia would catch up momentum that fast.

[ziliu]

I'm leaning towards Ameliaslay and ibaesha being scum together. As for their third member, I'm not really sure.

I also think an Ameliaslay lynch was better than no-lynch yesterday, but the deadline came as a total surprise for me, I must have missed where Blackberry said that.

[ziliu]

Bacde, are you claiming cop?

[ziliu]

Turbovolver, who do you think are scum right now?

[ziliu]

Except it wasn't the mafia, but the SK, who failed to kill.

Turbovolver, did you try to kill someone?

I'm still most sure of you being scum, ibby. I said somewhere back I thought Ameliaslay and Cherry were scum together, and that view still stands. And I'm most happy with an ibaesha lynch right now. Makes for a really interesting night. But I actually don't think my chances of winning are scum

I'm actually not really that sure which one of Lloyd and TheCesspit is mafia, but I presume the two of them know, so I think the best course of action right now is lynching Ibaesha and hoping the night goes my way.

But I might not be around to witness that; I'm going on vacation from July 3 to August 13, with little internet access. This game took longer than I expected. I'll go PM the mod, requesting a replacement.

[ziliu]

Prisoner's dilemma, interesting...

I'm really feeling sad going into night here being the only person without a night choice. But I'm sure the three of you know what needs to be done.

And I don't care who is SK and who's mafia, it's the same thing. So I think I'll end discussion here.

vote: ibaesha

.

And do get those night choices in quick, will you? I'd like this game to end before I leave for vacation.