Mini 1368 (Game Over)

[pappums rat]

Vote: Melmond

FUT, at MS.net people dont usually claim unless a lot of people think they are probably scum and they get run up to L-1 and someone expresses intent to hammer. Do you have experience at another site?

[pappums rat]

LOL.

Unvote
Vote: Cheery Dog

You really think a throwaway random vote reason for voting someone has anything worthy of analysis in it? It looks like you are trying to create something from nothing.

[pappums rat]

Well we have nothing so far, so what else am I meant to be working with?

Certainly not some bizarre-ass shit about the psychology of choosing a circle over a triangle as your favorite shape or whatever the fuck you were saying. If your vote on him was just for chuckles I wouldnt be pushing you on this, but when you say you have a scumread on someone based off of horseshit like this and are serious about it, it tingles my scumdar because it looks like you are grasping at straws to lay down a serious vote on someone.

[pappums rat]

I have doubts cheery dog is actually scum. He is Jester at best. His posts don't seem indicative of something mafia would do, TBH.

Spoiler:

This is a normal game, there is no possibility of there being a jester in this game.

[pappums rat]

As many people have said, how could you scum read from an RVS vote that was reasonable? Because you liked triangles better? I could go into a rant of how circles are better than triangles but this is not the place to do it, as you should not scum read from this little RVS vote. Just a summary.

So from the quote (bottom), please explain how the circle is a line. It's a 360 degree arc. There is no part you can cut from and transform it into a line. [sarc]And OMG, your analysis is so good that we all believe you now.[/sarc]

Curved lines are still lines, I never said it was a straight line.
If I were to draw half a shape and then lift my pencil off the paper, a circle would be much harder to continue drawing perfectly (unless it's via trace around a round object, but that's a boring way for drawing shapes even if it does mean it's more perfect), a triangle would be easy to get back to since it can be made of 3 lines. This means that the best circle would be made with one continuous line whereas all the shapes that do use straight lines (and have corners) can be made with taking a pencil off the paper.

Reads are developed from whatever information we have available, in your case, my read has come from you preferring the angles of a circle over a triangle, while I believe a circle to not have any exact angles because it has no corners. This is therefore a factual error and I consider those scummy.

....
....
....
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Why doesnt this guy have more votes? Seriously? He is making a huge mountain out of a molehill in accusing him of a "factual error" due to some fucked up shit about shapes. He is clearly grasping for straws.

...There's slight scum tingles from pappums rat...

LOLOMGUS and why dont you explain your scumreads (or townreads for that matter)?

pecanpie's #62 is good.

Melmond, what do you think of Cheery Dog and his "circles vs triangles" argument?

[pappums rat]

My read has not changed on Cheery Dog, and has in fact been strengthened by his disingeniuous claim that he was looking for reactions with his "triangles vs circles" thing. I think now would be a fine time for a claim.

This post:

Hellhound, who do you think is scum?

Honestly, i feel its too early to give any reads i'll stick to. I havent seen enough from everyone yet.
However, i get scummy vibes from CD, and FUT for buddying a little bit. Theres no reason to defend CD, unless he's your scum buddy.

Seems a little too safe to me. Only giving reads on Cheery Dog and FUT is bullshit, there has been enough going on to develop other reads and singling out only the two who have the most pressure makes me cringe.

fos: Hellhound

[pappums rat]

Unvote

I think Cheery Dog is probably town given his soft claim and his explanation for why he did this (poorly thought out) reaction test.

Seems a little too safe to me. Only giving reads on Cheery Dog and FUT is bullshit, there has been enough going on to develop other reads and singling out only the two who have the most pressure makes me cringe.

Are you going to be giving reads on anyone else? The only two reads you've given any hint at are that you think I'm scummy and that #62 from pecanpie was good and now a cringe at hellhound, I don't see how you have a right to be picking on someone else's reads. When the question asked is only who to they think is scum, why should they need multiple scumreads?
Do you have any other scumreads at this stage?

It wasnt an issue of how many scumreads he had given, it was that he had given the two people with the greatest chance of getting lynched that was a problem for me without commenting on anyone else. i.e., he was going after the easiest targets.

Vote: Hellhound

[pappums rat]

Hellhound's #127 is lulzy as hell and I think the fact that he jumped on NS just makes him all the scummier. The main reason I think he is scum is that he has been acting opportunistically, and this jump to a growing wagon just increases this habit.

@pappums&triangle: could you explain the case on Hellhound? I'm not sure I'm getting it.

My posts 102 and 112 and triangle's post 117 give thorough reasoning why Hellhound looks like scum, but to make a long story short he listed his scumreads as being the two people with the most pressure on them without commenting on anyone else, which looks like he is being opportunistic scum to me.

[pappums rat]

#112

Pappums

, in #102 you indicated that Cheery's reaction test strengthened your scumread on him. In your #112 you indicated the same reaction test contributed to your new townread on him. What was mentioned, if anything, that made you view the reaction test in a new light? Please be definitive in your answer, as in describing what was scummy about it to begin with and what exactly changed your mind.

When he originally claimed that the "triangles vs circles" thing was a reaction test, he didnt really explain how this was so or why he would use such a thing as a reaction test, but afterwards he explained the reaction test in more detail and I could understand why someone would do something like that to get discussion going and try to gain reads from it. I originally thought it was scummy because it looked like he was trying to find some reason, however absurd, to put a serious vote on someone, but once he explained how it was a reaction test further, I understood his mindset. The main reason he is town though is because of the softclaim.

#169 and 170 really have given me a fairly strong scumread on Lupo, the analysis in those posts looks spot on to me.

Unvote
Vote: Hellhound

Triangle and Pie make very good arguments, and it's difficult to continue to pursue NS with nothing to examine. Punish him for lurking later. Focus on what could be more useful now.

Why vote Hellhound when their posts were about Lupo?

[pappums rat]

So given the game in its current state, I'd be happy with a Hellhound or Lupo lynch. Either one is scummy enough to warrant it, and either flip will provide valuable information that can be examined in Day 2.

I'm pappums rat and I approve of this message. This game has been terribly stagnant and I think once we get some flips to work with this game bust wide open. I dont see Lupo getting lynched today, so moar Hellhound votes plox.

[pappums rat]

BTW killerjester, if you want Lupo lynched today why arent you voting him?

[pappums rat]

Im ready for Hellhound to be lynched. He is trying to lurk this out, and it seems to be working with triangle123 saying a move to Lupo is happening if Hellhound doesnt post soon. WTF is up with that, seriously? I dont even really care about a claim either. If he claims VT his lynch would be fine to go through with, and if he claims a PR I would assume he is lying. In other words, Hellhound is the lynch for today IMO. Hellhound is purposely avoiding this game in an attempt to have his wagon die down, but we should not let this happen. Who wants the honor of hammering this scumbag? =======[]

[pappums rat]

Dude, he just got off V/LA today. Give him some time to pick up the prod. If it comes down to the wire - within a few hours of the deadline - I'll hammer Hellhound as he is my #2 lynch.

HOWEVER, you've said something that tingles my scumdar.

He is trying to lurk this out, and it seems to be working with triangle123 saying a move to Lupo is happening if Hellhound doesnt post soon. WTF is up with that, seriously?

Last I checked, both here (#179) and here (#207), you were supportive of a Lupo lynch, and simply thought it was unlikely to go through D1. So what's wrong with triangle switching to the Lupo wagon anyway?

I never said there was anything scummy about triangle possibly jumping over to Lupo, I just have a problem with someone lurking out and someone leaving the wagon simply for that reason. As in, I dont like the idea of Hellhound not getting lynched today simply because he is lurking like a motherfucker.

Don't take whatever Hellhound flips for granted tomorrow, as it stands right now there is only confirmed townie here - me

LOL since when are you confirmed town???

[pappums rat]

Don't take whatever Hellhound flips for granted tomorrow, as it stands right now there is only confirmed townie here - me

LOL since when are you confirmed town???

If you are having trouble seeing my miller claim as genuine - good - don't take my word for granted [...]

Any reason why I shouldn't be confirmed town at this stage pappums?

Ummm... because you're not??? Claiming miller and being confirmed town are two completely different things.

Or let me put it this way, if pappums or someone else wants to muddy the waters it better be with something better than "Lol, you could be lying".

Im not trying to muddy jack shit, you are claiming that you are confirmed town when you are fucking not. If you want to post your thoughts before night, I am more than ok with that, but calling yourself confirmed town is bullshit.

pecanpie's #253 looks like he is trying too hard. He is going way too far out of his way to try to make CD look bad for a good fos.

Muddied my waters?

Lawl, I don't see your case. I see pathetic scum chainsawing.

The onus is on you to prove I have something to defend, currently your case still reads as "Lol, you could be lying".

No, Im pretty sure his case is "you could be lying AND you are trying to make it out as though you are confirmed town when you are not". You have even said that we shouldnt look into you at all (at least for now) in #253 when you said: "Considering me as confirmed town makes one less person to investigate, eliminate from suspicion etc. etc. which makes for a smaller pool for scum to hide in." You are not confirmed town, and you wont be until you flip, so dont try to make out like you are, because that is bad play if you are town and scummy on top of that.

Cheery Dog: we aren't lynching pieceofpecanpiece today, so I dontknow why you're wasting valuable pre-deadline time talk to and about him.

Talking about non-factual, erroneous, and scummy shit like this is NOT a waste of time, it is an integral part of scumhunting, and to claim otherwise is fucking horrible.

fos: KK

Besides, what the fuck more is to be said of Hellhound??? People have made their case on him, and he is lurkaderping till deadline hoping to get pressure and votes off of himself so he wont be lynched today.

[pappums rat]

Also, if there is a vig please FTLOG shoot pecanpie. While I dont think he is scummy enough at this point to lynch (I would still take either HH or Lupo over him right now) he definately cant live to see LYLO after this display and I would like him dead ASAP.

[pappums rat]

@pappums rat - You were first on the Hellhound1 wagon, is Cheery Dog's case on Hellhound1 accurate?

If you want answers as to why I am voting Hellhound, go through my posts, but as to why CD is voting HH:

@Cheery Dog: we aren't lynching pieceofpecanpiece today, so I dontknow why you're wasting valuable pre-deadline time talk to and about him.

Tell (or link) me the reason that you're voting Hellhound1.

I'm discussing it because hellhound hasn't shown up yet and I need something to discuss while waiting for either him to show up or someone to hammer. (or both)
May as well make some progress on day 2 talks, even though there is a chance one of us could be dead tomorrow.

I've voting hellhound because of
1. That he has only talked about the having read scum on the two highest pressured players (myself and FUT). (agreeing with the early case put on him)
2. He hasn't brought anything logical into the game (mentioned in #146)
3. I think there is distancing on him from BBS. (as why I voted in @223/my theory mentioned in #229 and explained in #242)
4. The fact he went inactive after the pressure was put to him. (also #242)

To clear 3 up some more (I thought someone had asked about that, but I can't find who), BBS is distancing himself from the lynch while still finding HH to be scummy, the post of BBS's in question said to me "save my buddy". I believe it was a scumslip and the "mislynch" in question was that he didn't want to lynch someone he knew to be on his team, thus it would be a mislynch from scum's point of view. Though I can also see Lupo being the buddy in question to be saved.
This means that BBS is actually my biggest scumread still.

I agree with points 1,2, and 4, but 3 is a big WTF in my opinion, and I dont really see that at all.

Hellhound flaking is not surprising to me, I wasnt really expecting him to come back to this game tbh. I would like to point out though that he has been on (most recently yesterday) and chose to not even give a "Im catching up" post or a "sorry guise but I have to replace out" post. I honestly think this kind of flake out is indicative of scum, and I dont even care about a claim from this slot. Someone hammer this slot before a replacement can wriggle out of this lynch.

[pappums rat]

Also, the way that he reacted to the case on him (go back and read it folks) and his subsequent silence is incriminating of him IMO. From my POV, he had the heat put on him, he tried to lurk it out, and when the pressure didnt let up he just flaked out. This is a scumflake, and he needs the hammer nao. =========[]

[pappums rat]

Triple post, yay!

Lupo, NS, and idiotking need to explain why they think supporting a wagon that isnt happening today is a good idea. idiotking isnt even voting atm.

[pappums rat]

Also, if there is a vig please FTLOG shoot pecanpie. While I dont think he is scummy enough at this point to lynch (I would still take either HH or Lupo over him right now) he definately cant live to see LYLO after this display and I would like him dead ASAP.

You're asking a vig to kill me...

Yes, as a matter of fact I am. It would take care of a scummy claimed miller and would free up a lynch that would otherwise have to target you before LYLO. As far as Im concerned that is the best course of action to take after the things that went down over the last few pages.

Triple post, yay!

Lupo, NS, and idiotking need to explain why they think supporting a wagon that isnt happening today is a good idea. idiotking isnt even voting atm.

Because I have said many times I do not believe in a HellHound Lynch. I just don't see the case

Then why arent you pushing your lynch through when what you believe to be a mislynch is so close at hand?

Meh I think Hellhound1 is trying to lurk now, since we got him into position. If he doesn't roleclaim or post a defense in a span of one day, I'll hammer him. Reasons: Lurking (trying to get us to lynch someone else), and no good defenses. Considering our deadline, he might as well be our lynch for Day 1.

Man, you really have to justify your potential hammer, dont you?

Lupo, NS, and idiotking need to explain why they think supporting a wagon that isnt happening today is a good idea. idiotking isnt even voting atm.

Which wagon do you mean? And hold up a second... why shouldn't I want to wagon people I find suspicious? Isn't this the same damn issue as with Kublai Khan up there? As for why I'm not voting, I wanted to give Hellhound a little while to see if he was coming back before I hammered. I am sorely tempted to hammer now anyway, but a few things have come up since I last read the thread and I want them addressed, now that the deadline has extended.

The point I was making with you was this game has been going on for two weeks and you dont have a vote down. You are not pushing anyone. All you seem to do is float around posting comments every now and then without making an active attempt at lynching scum. I dont like it when a game is 12 pages in and people dont have votes down.

@Mod

Is it worthwhile to search for a replacement? I mean they'll join a game with the obligation to read through the thread and with at least two people saying they'll hammer their slot.

This post is troubling to me. I dont think it is up to the mod to decide whether or not it is "worthwhile" to search for a replacement for a flaker, that is up to the players. The mod upholds the rules of the game (including replacing flakers) and the players decide who lives and who dies. What exactly are you asking the mod here? For a modkill or what?

[pappums rat]

@Mod

Is it worthwhile to search for a replacement? I mean they'll join a game with the obligation to read through the thread and with at least two people saying they'll hammer their slot.

This post is troubling to me. I dont think it is up to the mod to decide whether or not it is "worthwhile" to search for a replacement for a flaker, that is up to the players. The mod upholds the rules of the game (including replacing flakers) and the players decide who lives and who dies. What exactly are you asking the mod here? For a modkill or what?

That is a genuine question addressed to the mod, I'm not on trial for it, I want to hear what he says.

It is not part of the actual gameplay so kindly refrain from using it to further your cause.

This has already been covered, so I wont go into as much detail as I would have, but to make a long story short, anything a person puts in a game thread is open to criticism, whether it is to another player or to the mod. I would like you to answer the question as well.

Meh I think Hellhound1 is trying to lurk now, since we got him into position. If he doesn't roleclaim or post a defense in a span of one day, I'll hammer him. Reasons: Lurking (trying to get us to lynch someone else), and no good defenses. Considering our deadline, he might as well be our lynch for Day 1.

-_-

So we wait for a replacement.

Man, this is some waffly indecisive shit right here, and it really doesnt sit well with me. In one post you are supposedly ready to hammer and in the next, due to the opinion of others, you are now waiting for the replacement? It looks like you are scared to take the initiative and hammer when you say he should be lynched and then when it looks like the popular opinion is to wait for the replacement, who is almost certainly going to take the heat off of the slot with catchup posts and "scumhunting" which is exactly the reason you were about to hammer him in the first place. This is cognitive dissonance and I now have a scumread on you. Grats braj.

Melmond, I would like your reads if you wouldnt mind.

[pappums rat]

@pappumsrat, The replacement does not have Hellhound's personality, does he? We cannot lynch him while a replacement is searching because:
1. Hellhound has poor defenses, replacement might have strong ones.
2. We cannot judge a replacement by the last user that had his/her role.

1. Oh well that's just great if the slot is scum then, isnt it?
2. So are you saying that we should just completely ignore Hellhound's contributions to this game then?
And you have failed to address the meat of what I was saying against you, you were going to hammer HH so that slot wouldnt get a free pass due to his lurking but as soon as popular opinion said that we should wait on a replacement you went along with the crowd.

P. edit: yeah, what he said.

[pappums rat]

I still stand by my desire to have pecanpie vigged if we have one. He is too damn concerned with looking town, and town dont need to look town. Not to mention the fact that WE CANNOT LET HIM LIVE TO LYLO. He said that we should lynch him before LYLO and that would somehow give us information based on who was on the wagon, but if everyone already knows he needs to die before LYLO, then everyone would be voting him anyway so such a wagon wouldnt gain us anything except wasting a lynch that could otherwise target someone else.

[pappums rat]

pecanpie's #337 is a load of WIFOM bullshit. Of course it is not in town's best interest to lynch or vig town, BUT BY NO FUCKING MEANS ARE YOU CONFIRMED TOWN. You claiming that you are confirmed town WAS scummy and you trumping up your miller claim as a reason to think you are town WAS scummy as well. You saying you are trying to LOOK town WAS scummy as well. So no, I am not saying your miller claim is reason to have you vigged as you are trying to misrep me as saying. I had made no attempt at getting you policy lynched when you first claimed vig and had every intention of letting your actions speak for themselves, and guess what? They have. And now I want you dead, and the best way to do this is to have you vigged instead of wasting a lynch on you later.

[pappums rat]

This might be a dumb question, so apologies if I'm having a stupid moment, but why can't we let him live to LyLo, assuming he doesn't do anything lynch-worthy beforehand? His claim is more or less equally likely to have been from town as scum so if we just judge him off his actions in LyLo, what's the problem?

He has done something lynch-worthy, but instead of lynching him I want a vig, if we have one, to kill him instead. And letting him live UNTIL LYLO is out of the question, we have someone who claims to investigate as scum, which is a fine scum gambit for scum to coast on with immunity to being investigated because lolmiller. There is too much WIFOM involved, and when someone has scummed it up as badly as pecanpie has with his actions today, letting him get to LYLO would be unacceptable.

The point of a miller claim is so that he doesn't get killed later by a cop investigation. We have no more knowledge about him than anyone else that a cop doesn't investigate. Unless there's actually scummy things that Pie has done today, unrelated to the miller claim, that make him seem scummy, let's ignore it and try to lynch someone whose actions right now are suspect.

We have already lynched someone, right now we are talking about vigging pecanpie to free up a lynch that would otherwise have to be targeted at him.

@pappums rat - Why are you making such a big deal about it?

Because he has to die BEFORE lylo, and it makes more sense to vig him rather than waste a lynch on a slot that has to die anyway. No information would be gained from such a lynch, and vigging him would also take a major distraction out of the game.

[pappums rat]

I can see where you are coming from KK, but I dont see how people are supposed to just keep their mouths shut when someone does something so blatantly scummy as this. I dont see what reason the scum would have to kill off pecanpie if he's town after he claimed he was confirmed town, townpie derping it up wouldnt give them any incentive to kill him and IMO would go after someone that actually is more obvtown.

[pappums rat]

We have already lynched someone, right now we are talking about vigging pecanpie to free up a lynch that would otherwise have to be targeted at him.

Um... not we haven't.

I don't see the miller claim as scummy at all. One of the prevailing strategies is that millers are supposed to D1 claim. I see no reason to focus on it. Just ignore it an evaluate Pie on everything else. It only matters later on. For example, if it turns out we have no cop? Then he's toast. His miller claim should neither protect him nor condemn him.

Do me a favor and learn how to read English, then come back and re-read my ISO. This also goes to anyone else who thinks I am talking about having pecanpie vigged due to his claim. My reasons for wanting him dead have nothing to do with his claim of miller. Reading is tech, braj.

[pappums rat]

I wouldnt have to keep saying the same thing over and over if people werent illiterate and could actually understand the words I am typing as to why I called on a vig to kill you. It would also help if you would not misrep me as to this reason as well. And I never said I had a "case" on you, I just gave reasons why it would be better if you were vigged rather than waste a lynch on you. I will admit that this is probably not good play to keep at it, but when you are this obstinate and other players are this pants on head, it kind of gets to me.

[pappums rat]

First off, I would just like to apologize for my actions late yesterday, playing like I did was FUCKING HORRIBLE PLAY and it shouldnt have happened.

My reads at this point:

Town:

triangle123

Probably/Maybe Town:

Cheery Dog - claim
Killer Jester - overall townie-mindset play (strongest townread based on play in this category)
Kublai Khan - overall townie-mindset play
Melmond - I dont see scum motivation in his posts

Other:

pecanpie - miller claim
Nobody Special - hasnt said enough to come to a conclusion either way

I could see as Scum:

Paschendale - late on the HH wagon and gut
Idiotking - hammered CDB w/o letting him claim or catch up. I know I said it didnt matter to me if he was lynched w/o these things, but I didnt feel Idiotking had enough suspicion of him to hammer in that fashion.

Best chance at Scum:

basketballstar24 - very WTF scummy posting late yesterday
Lupo - scummy counterwagon to HH

Lupo and Hellhound were counterwagons to each other, so for the moment at least I am going to:

Vote: Lupo

[pappums rat]

I have asked the mod to replace me from this game. I'm sorry everyone.