Mini 1368 (Game Over)

[Kublai Khan]

Vote: Nobody Special

Vote: Nobody Special

Vote: Nobody Special

Vote: Nobody Special

Vote: Nobody Special

@FUT - Where'd you learn to play mafia?

[Kublai Khan]

unvote

Vote: Hellhound1

Others haven't been voted for yet, why Cheery Dog over them?

[Kublai Khan]

Others haven't been voted for yet, why Cheery Dog over them?

hell hound
Cheery dog

Hope that clears it up for you

Not quite.. Why didn't you give that reason previously? Why do you have a cover story for your random vote?

[Kublai Khan]

All that pieceofpecanpie has done is claim miller, and as far as I see, doing that would most likely be something only a miller would do, thus rendering him in fact town.

I've fakeclaimed miller as scum.

Why didn't you answer my questions from Post 25.

[Kublai Khan]

Hellhound1 needs more votes.

[Kublai Khan]

Hellhound1 needs more votes.

Why? His vote was clear to me.

Hmph. I was going to explain why it wasn't, then I finally understood what he (Hellhound1) meant. I thought he was giving me a different explanation, but he was actually answering my question. Whoops.

unvote

[Kublai Khan]

I'm here. Sorry, fighting through a cold atm.

Vote: Lupo

Seems to be following a scum strategy of trying to move along lynches while keeping his hands clean. The Cheery Dog claim request was bad. Also, self-voting and self-unvoting in opening post is a sign of being too self-conscious.

[Kublai Khan]

@ Kublai Khan

You seem to be the only one that hasn't said anything about CD.

What do you think about the situation?
Do you think CD would be a sound first day lynch?

Cheery Dog's opening geometry talk is null. Those who are voting/suspecting him for that reason are suspect themselves (pappums rat, Nobody Special, & Lupo most strongly).

Up until the riddle, I would have said that Cheery Dog is not a good Day 1 lynch. But riddle-claiming is bad. He's not actually claiming anything that could be potentially proven until the beginning of Day 3, so it's possible that he's scum stalling for free exclusion time. Those publicly guessing at his role should stop. Treat him as a VT.

[Kublai Khan]

1. The only lynch that has been in favor is CD. I was unaware that I was moving along to various lynches when there was only one.

Sorry, didn't mean to pluralize. So you admit to helping a lynch along while not being on it?

2. Claiming at L-1 is pretty standard for the other games I've been in on site.

Cheery Dog's wagon is a very low information wagon since it's only Page 5. If it went through I'd have been thoroughly surprised. You were certainly role-fishing for setup info.

3. lol. really? My little RVS joke is scummy? With that reasoning, your opening post which posts the same vote 4 times may be attempting to brainwash others into voting (exactly it's that stupid)

My 5 votes for Nobody Special were meta-related. I've never been able to accurately read him because he heavily lurks as scum and town. People who self-vote as a joke typically leave it on. Your same-post unvote and subsequent later reason-less RVS-unvote gives me the impression that you're trying to hide/cover-up something.

[Kublai Khan]

2. After he was set at L-1 there were 3 posts from 3 authors saying they would like a claim. This explains my point that it's generally standard to do it.

You were first to ask for a claim, pappums rat is already on the wagon, and basketballstar24 is less scummy than you at the moment.

[Kublai Khan]

I felt that a claim at this level would help me decide whether or not he would be a good lynch.

Explain this in more detail please.

[Kublai Khan]

I felt that a claim at this level would help me decide whether or not he would be a good lynch.

Explain this in more detail please.

With how he is posting anything other than a VT claim would come off as a lie to me.

What do you make of his claim then?

[Kublai Khan]

#118
Khan, if you had to pick one part of Lupo that stood out as being most scummy, what would you say that is? You've mentioned moving wagons along, requesting Cheery claim, and his opening RVS joke. If there is anything else that makes him scummy please indicate so.

This kinda feels like a filler question.

Plus it's a little moot. My certainty has wavered. He reacted pretty townily to the case and my questions.. Will post more after work.

[Kublai Khan]

@Nobody Special - When would you say your meta changed? Were you fine with lynching Cheery Dog?

@basketballstar24 - What do you think of Cheery Dog's claim?

@triangle123 - What's your read on Paschendale?

[Kublai Khan]

@Nobody Special - When would you say your meta changed? Were you fine with lynching Cheery Dog?

I was then, I'd rather lynch triangle now.

Why were you okay with lynching Cheery Dog at that juncture? Just for the geometry discussion?

@Khan, He sounds like a VT until day 3, where he has something to do at night. I seriously can't think of any roles that it might be. I think it is town though, if mafia or cult leader than he would have stuff to do at night.

Or maybe he is cult, not cult leader, but I don't know what he has to do on night 3.

How does that jive with this:

However, Cheery Dog is making assumptions that are way too smart to be to real, and most likely our best lynch for Day 1. Yes, let's let him claim because he's at L-1. Unless he's mafia or third party, he will claim.

You seem pretty inconsistent. Cheery Dog didn't give you a clear claim answer, but you're calling him town. Why?

@Kublai Khan: So what do you think of lupo now? You said before that your certainty has wavered. Have you looked more into it?

It's not a slam dunk lynch, but I support it. If I had to put an arbitrary number I'd say 70% chance of being scum. killerjester's L-1 waffling point is a good one.

[Kublai Khan]

I don't know who is scummier, though, but I'll vote Lupo because I don't want some mislynch here if someone hammers Hellhound cause he's at L-2.

So do you have proof that he would be a mislynch?
I guess there is one way to find out.
UNVOTE: NS, VOTE: Hellhound

Hellhound is now at L-1

WTF? If basketballstar24 is scummy for knowing that Hellhound1 is a mislynch, WHY WOULD YOU VOTE FOR HELLHOUND1?

(Also, why didn't killerjester pick up on that?)

[Kublai Khan]

I have a townier reading on you, killerjester. Answer after Cheery Dog does.

[Kublai Khan]

Either Hellhound or Lupo are good lynches. I think NS has played silently, but is, as I said, calm and patient. I still have a null read on NS.

I don't know who is scummier, though, but I'll vote Lupo because I don't want some mislynch here if someone hammers Hellhound cause he's at L-2.

If I'm reading this right.. You think Hellhound1 is a good lynch, but you don't want someone to accidentally lynch him?

Because I don't think we would be able to get a big enough wagon on basketballstar in what little time we still have of this day. (besides my RVS reaction test and sarcasm callout, I haven't seen anyone else believe he might be scum yet this point and I don't think I have the trust of everyone to be able to lead a wagon at this stage)
Therefore I'm testing the theory via a lynch that is likely to happen anyway.

So you're willing to lynch someone in order to "prove" that someone else knew it would be a mislynch?

@triangle123 - You don't have any comment on recent game happenings?

[Kublai Khan]

Now that we've established that pieceofpecanpie is the towniest town that ever tony-town town, can we get back to discussing who to lynch? That's actually a little more important.

I'm phone posting at the moment. But I'm leaning towads switching my vote to Cheery Dog. Will review later.

[Kublai Khan]

Also, someone give me a summary of the Hellhound1 case.

[Kublai Khan]

@Cheery Dog: we aren't lynching pieceofpecanpiece today, so I dontknow why you're wasting valuable pre-deadline time talk to and about him.

Tell (or link) me the reason that you're voting Hellhound1.

[Kublai Khan]

@pappums rat: Pieceofpecanpie's timing of his outrageous "confirmed town" statement means he's either a townie playing really badly or he's scum setting up a distraction.

Either way, we get better informationas a town if the discussion is centered on potential lyncheesthan not.

[Kublai Khan]

@pappums rat - You were first on the Hellhound1 wagon, is Cheery Dog's case on Hellhound1 accurate?

[Kublai Khan]

@pappums rat - You were first on the Hellhound1 wagon, is Cheery Dog's case on Hellhound1 accurate?

[Kublai Khan]

@Cheery Dog: we aren't lynching pieceofpecanpiece today, so I dontknow why you're wasting valuable pre-deadline time talk to and about him.

Oh dear, it's Hellhound all over again.

FOS Kublai Khan

for basically saying that we should only focus on who is most likely to be lynched today. Why on Earth shouldn't we focus on other people before the deadline? That's just silly. Stop being silly, Kublai Khan.

Really? pieceofpecanpie claimed miller. This makes pieceofpecanpie more likely to be town than any of the rest of you. Why? Because it's fucking stupid for scum to claim miller. If pieceofpecanpie is scum, then A) he's locked himself into a claim and therefore can't PR claim later on, B) fucked himself over if there is a tracker or watcher in the game and he's forced to make a night action, C) is at the mercy of a vig (who is well within their rights to eliminate a miller).

So if pieceofpecanpie wants to claim himself as being undoubtably town, then he's well within his rights. If you can't figure out the town benefit of him doing so, then you need to re-think things. (Silly, my ass.)

-----
@Nobody Special - Back to the old meta?

[Kublai Khan]

@pappums rat - Why are you making such a big deal about it?

[Kublai Khan]

@pappums rat - Why are you making such a big deal about it?

Because he has to die BEFORE lylo, and it makes more sense to vig him rather than waste a lynch on a slot that has to die anyway. No information would be gained from such a lynch, and vigging him would also take a major distraction out of the game.

Right. But it's a theoretical conversation. If there is a vig, then they know your position about what they should do and they know that many people agree with you. If there isn't a vig, then it's all moot.

I'm not sure why you're kicking up so much dust and fuss about setting up a lynch for tomorrow (or later, but before LYLO) when we don't have the over-night results yet.

Personally, I think that you should have shut the fuck up about how stupid pieceofpecanpie's assertions were and are. If he is a miller then he's fucking expendable. Let him sound off all he wants about he super-town he is going into night. Mafia could have taken care of him for us. Now, they won't and instead will try to get him lynched. So a big old fat

FOS: pappums rat

is in order for how you're treating pieceofpecanpie.

[Kublai Khan]

I doubt that pieceofpecanpie's consciously was trying to get night-killed by claiming he was confirmed town, but it certainly is the most ideal move for a miller to be killed by scum. It removes the WIFOM his role brings to the game and a non-PR gets killed. That's why I was trying to stifle all miller-based conversation and focus on lynch-choices instead.

I realize that it's hard for town to collectively keep quiet about something as outrageous as what pieceofpecanpie posted, but you have to keep mindful of the context of player actions in a mafia game. Your eye should be on the prize of town victory. Scum are the ones with their eye on the next day's lynch.

You could be a misguided townie. But I'm FOSing you because I think you have the requisite experience necessary to pick up on these things. Especially since I was really strongly hinting that pursuing pieceofpecanpie was not in town's interest.

[Kublai Khan]

Ugh. 3 votes abd basketballstar24 claims vt? That's a sorry state of affairs.

If he actually is a vt, remind meto blacklist his ass when the game is over. There's. No excuse for that sort of shit playing.

[Kublai Khan]

I need to re-read this game.

VOTE: Nobody Special

He needs to post a list of reads in the next 24 hours.

[Kublai Khan]

@mod- Please prod Nobody Special. He has yet to post Today.

@other players - Please vote Nobody Special. He can't let him get away with such blatant lurking in a mini with 2 week deadlines.

[Kublai Khan]

[double post]

[Kublai Khan]

I'm happy with my vote on Nobody Special. Other people should join me.

[Kublai Khan]

I feel as though NS's post is missing something. But it's just that he's missing a vote. Is the case on NS still only that he's lurking?

As far as I can tell, yes.

Are you kidding? The only thing Nobody Special bothered to say after he'd been prodded was:

"I need to read the game."
"Ok read the game. Wow, no kill last night--I didn't notice any town PRs. Anyways, good job on that major wagon, keep it up. Bye."

Nobody Special mind as well put up a sign on his door that reads "Please Do Not Disturb, I'm Murdering Townies".

[Kublai Khan]

So go ahead say I'm scum for not posting and saying a few words. I remember back in the days when that was exactly what caught them.

Whose alt are you?

[Kublai Khan]

What alt? What's alt?

alt = alternate account

Your account is only just over a month old, yet you talk about "back in the day". So what other account names have you posted under?

[Kublai Khan]

This is ridiculous. It's been 3 days since Nobody Special posted last. After he acknowledged the short deadlines. After he promised that he was changing his meta and going to be more active. After he got his modem working.

[Kublai Khan]

I am pretty much convinced that BBS is scum, and yes, I'm tunneling. Not much else to say right now.

How about... why?

[Kublai Khan]

Also noting that Nobody Special only posts when he is mentioned.

[Kublai Khan]

And I'm pretty sure I explained why if you'd actually, you know,

read my posts.

Sure, hold on a second...

That said, I do agree that BBS is being either useless town or total scum.

Oh, gosh. IT'S ALL SO CLEAR NOW. WHY DID I EVER DOUBT YOU?

@everyone: more votes please.

[Kublai Khan]

This game feels like a scum's paradise. basketballstar24, Nobody Special, pappums rat's slot, and pieceofpecanpie are all either dead weight or lynchbait. If scum aren't among those four then we are shot.

[Kublai Khan]

Please enlighten me. How have I been scummy?

You're self-consciously playing towards your town meta.

[Kublai Khan]

Prodded.

Will catch up and post today.

[Kublai Khan]

@mod, Kublai Khan needs a prod

@Kublai Khan, a look at your posts shows you have posted in general discussion constantly, why are you avoiding posting in here? If you are not interested in playing, please replace out.

I'm here. My head's not in the game currently though. I'm trying a sleeping giant thing.

I'll be reading up today and have a content post late, late tonight.

[Kublai Khan]

I really don't buy Idiotking's claim, but I recognize the wisdom of not lynching him yet.

I'm down with an I Am Innocent lynch today.

vote: I Am Innocent

(L-1)

Reasons tomorrow.

[Kublai Khan]

Hm..

unvote

[Kublai Khan]

Has Cogito Ergo Sum read the game yet? Because his vote on me is hella bad.

Okay, so here's the situation. Early into this game I got a new job. It has long hours, plus a longish commute, plus family time, plus sleep. So I can follow along pretty well, but I've been struggling to pin down time for an extensive analysis. Which is what I've been needed to do in this game, especially since the beginning of Day 2.

If you remember the end of and twilight period of Day 1, pappums rat was going off on pieceofpecanpie for the "conf town" comment. He was way too aggressive and directing the vig so strongly that it was scummy as hell. I called him out on it and he realized that I was absolutely correct.

Then at the beginning of Day 2, pappums rat mae culpa'd and listed his reads with triangle123 as top town with no reasoning. I read that as a soft-cop claim and that's when I skidded off having this game in hand. Whether it was legit or a fakeclaim, I had to let it play out and not call attention to it. So my top suspect at the time was off the table and I needed to re-read and generate new reads. But as aformentioned I lacked the time to do so.

So I lazily and easily called attention to Nobody Special, whom I know to be a notorious lurker, to buy time to get a re-read in. He made promises that he was changing his meta and was going to be active, but wasn't. I managed some ISO re-reading here and there, but nothing jumped out at me, so I leaned on Nobody Special a little harder to at the very least generate a counter-wagon to see what information would shake out in the long run.

Lupo flipped scum, which means that I definitely needed to re-read with that info in mind and just kept putting it off until I had time and I finally made time.

So here's my notes from my re-read:

Apparent setup:
Vigilante (flipped)
Miller (claimed)
Even-Night Cop (claimed --- N2:Melmond-INNO)
Odd-Night Cop (claimed --- N1:triangle123-INNO)
Doctor (claimed)
Vanilla (flipped)
Vanilla (claimed)
Unknown x5
Goon (flipped)

First, given that the two cop claims fit each other like a jigsaw puzzle and there's no counter-claims, so they are cleared. I believe the miller claim since he made it early and his play has been overall okay (170 stands up as town), which means that balance-wise a godfather role is a strong possibility.

After Cheery Dog's wagon fell apart post-claim, but before Hellhound1's lynch, killerjester tried to spearhead a Lupo-wagon and kept the tunnel going through the next day until he was successful. No bus is ever that strong, so killerjester is my strongest town-read.

Of the two targets of investigation, nothing triangle123 has done stands out as scummy. Conversely, I'm not getting why so many people have a town-read on Melmond. Consider Post 459, it's an attempt to bunk the Lupo wagon. He acknowledges all the legitimate reasons for the wagon (that killerjester just recently provided in Post 432 & Post 440), but ends with "if people could explain and push his case, so I can understand it better, that would be good."

When re-reading, I was getting ready to push a Paschendale case when I caught up. Post 504 looked like such a scummy backpedal in a "I wasn't defending my soon-to-flip scum-buddy" sense that he needed to taste rope unless there was someone better. So I was thrown off by the fact that he was night-killed. So, why? Well, the reason behind the NK choice isn't important, but whoever uses it to push a narrative is scummy. To that end, I found myself heavily agreeing with killerjester that Idiotking is scummy for pushing theory theory that scum "must not be paying attention". However he claimed doc, so he'll have to keep the cops alive.

Nobody Special and basketballstar24 are my wildcards at the moment. Lupo was weakly pushing them while he was being lynched so I want to give them a mild town-tell, but I really want them to justify a town-read on them.

I think I got everyone. Any questions?

[Kublai Khan]

I've looked at Melmond's play, particularly around the Lupo wagon, and although I was annoyed at the time that he wasn't reaching the same conclusions I was, I don't see where he's trying to bunk the Lupo wagon as KK suggests. I can look at other players posts and have the same sentiment. Hell, I can get annoyed at the things I've said as well, but that feeling isn't the key to alignment

This has nothing to do with annoyance. He acknowledged the case dismissively, then asked someone to present a case. Right when attention was starting to grow on Lupo.

Based on the way KK dismisses triangle's slot from suspicion and concentrates on Melmond, I find triangle/CES a much more interesting slot to look at.

I'm not "dismissing him from suspicion". Nothing about triangle123's play jumped out at me as scummy and something about Melmond's play did. Did I miss something? Point it out!

[Kublai Khan]

BTW, I'm at L-1 so I'll go ahead and claim VT.

Is there a case on me that I can respond to, or is it just nothing but POE, lurking-poaching, and "feelings"?

[Kublai Khan]

Man.. Sorry everyone. Wasn't my best game and really did keep putting off posting.

That said, my lynch was pretty bad.

[Kublai Khan]

Why are people praising a fakeclaiming VT? That is bad, bad play.

[Kublai Khan]

Bad precedent. Bad practice. Lynch all liars.

[Kublai Khan]

The reason I voted I Am Innocent after I finished reading up is because his soft-claim looked fake since there was an un-CCed doc, cop, and a dead vig.

That vote put him at L-1 and caused him to claim. And that got me lynched. So, yeah, thanks for that.