Mini 1412: 0 Percent Flavor Mafia Finis

[MonkeyMan576]

/confirm

[MonkeyMan576]

Vote: Yates

Your avatar is creepy. And I don't trust the grim reaper.

[MonkeyMan576]

@havingfitz - Isn't scumchat usually limited to either all the time or night only? If day has started I don't know how they could be "extending their chat."

[MonkeyMan576]

Vote: Human Destroyer

I don't like that HD is attacking Central on his word semantics, but not basing his votes on the actual content of the post, which is voting lurking players.

[MonkeyMan576]

Unvote:
Vote: Human Destroyer

[MonkeyMan576]

This is about the stupidest case I've ever heard. Obviously I know scum can talk before the game. I meant usually they can't talk once the game starts.

[MonkeyMan576]

My vote is already on destroyer. But yeah he's scum.

[MonkeyMan576]

So you have nothing to say on the fact that I already knew about pre-game scum talk and I was blatently misrepped but you still vote me?

Also OMGUS much?

[MonkeyMan576]

It was an omgus in this case, because the case on you is much better than the case on me. You have backpedaled and now omgused.

More HD votes please.

[MonkeyMan576]

Not to mention criticizing Central Scrutinizer for wanting to lynch lurkers.

[MonkeyMan576]

Except that it's not a scumslip. As I said, the case I said is stupid and a total misrep. I never even implied that scum couldn't chat pregame.

[MonkeyMan576]

*the case is stupid.

[MonkeyMan576]

fitz said "Extending their QT chit chat?"

It's totally reasonable to presume that he meant daytalk, since day had started at this point.

If anyone scumslipped, how is it me and not fritz?

[MonkeyMan576]

In re-reading, Monkey has elements in his post 37 that were not even being discussed. Derping it up, Slandaar? That is a stretch.

No on was discussing anything at that point, no one made mention of a chat, no one made mention of extending anything - what Monkey said just came out of the blue.

Why is that, Monkey?

Did you not read fitz's post?

[MonkeyMan576]

My post was after voting had started, you cannot post or vote if day hasn't started.

[MonkeyMan576]

@ L - Fitz was basically accusing players that were lurking of talking during the day. I was pointing out that I did not know of any scum ability to continue chat into the day unless they have full daychat ability.

[MonkeyMan576]

Talking in their messageboard/QT that is.

[MonkeyMan576]

Okay, I see the confusion. I had presumed that when fitz was talking, day had started. By the time I made my post, day actually had started. I thought you were only supposed to /confirm pre-day, so my bad for not realizing that fitz's post was pre-day.

[MonkeyMan576]

HD still needs to be lynched.

[MonkeyMan576]

That's not at all what I was saying. It's not so much a misrep as a misunderstanding. But even if I had been talking about pre-day chat, there's nothing scummy about it. There's nothing for either town or scum to gain by suggesting pre-day chat isn't available. Also, there's no motivation for me to presume that pre-day chat isn't available. I've played dozens of games on this site and been playing for about 5 or 6 years on another site, and that is basic mafia stuff. It was simply a case of me thinking fitz was talking about day chat and not pre-day chat. So please don't insult my intelligence.

[MonkeyMan576]

There's nothing for either town or scum to gain by suggesting pre-day chat isn't available.

Well this is a lie too. If there was nothing to gain, why point it out? Just fluffing the thread? No. Obviously, as scum, you would have been trying to make Fitz look suspicious as someone with inside knowledge of how the scum chat was working in this game - thereby inferring that Fitz is scum for knowing this without actually coming out and calling him scum.

Granted, this is all confirmation bias and assumes you are scum and Fitz is Town but I can't envision a scenario in which you are Town and making these posts.

That's because you're already convinced of something that isn't even there. If you step back and look at what I said you will see that it is a simple misunderstanding of the timeperiod of fitz's post. And it was clearly a clarification question, not a question to implicate alignment.

[MonkeyMan576]

If anyone is lying it's you. You obviously have some motivation for exaggerating this.

I thought the game had started because there were non-/cofirm posts. I have already explained this.

As for the clarification, I was asking for fitz to clarify if he thought scum were talking after day had started.

[MonkeyMan576]

I'm not lying at all. I'm telling the whole truth. Besides which, if anything the situation right now is good for the town because it is causing people to take sides on an issue early in the game. Scum would not want to polorize things so much, they would want to sit back and let the town mislynch. We are getting a lot of information from this which is great for the town, so you should be thanking me.

I appreciate your cynicism, which is definately a pro-town attribute, but making a mountain out of a molehill is not benefiting anyone.

[MonkeyMan576]

The issue is that I thought it was day when fitz posted. I have no way of proving this, but there's no evidence to suggest I'm lying, merely that I made a wrong presumption as to day status when fitz's post was. It wasn't a lie, and nothing else I have said is a lie. Nothing I've said is inconsistant with what actually happened.

I mean if you really think this is a lynchable offence, by all means have at it.

[MonkeyMan576]

I have been lynched quite a bit on day one unfortunately, but more often I have been town when it happened.

[MonkeyMan576]

I will but I'm working right now.

[MonkeyMan576]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=21340
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=13390

[MonkeyMan576]

What did you learn about lying as Town from mini 922?

Sometimes you have to lie as town. I try to avoid it though.

Unvote: HD

Would like to move beyond this and look at other options.

[MonkeyMan576]

It's called reevaluating. Some of us do it when things change during the day. Scum don't.

[MonkeyMan576]

Basically I think HD is defending himself better and there are still people lurking that I'd like to see more of.

[MonkeyMan576]

We have 5 players with 5 posts or less.

[MonkeyMan576]

Yeah, if we put pressure on lurkers it will make them more active, I'm just thinking about who to try and pressure.

And I don't always decide on posts the minute they are posted. Sometimes I actually think about things for awhile.

[MonkeyMan576]

Vote: The Acting Method

We could definately use more input from him.

[MonkeyMan576]

How so?

[MonkeyMan576]

How so?

In mini 922, for example, you made the following statement in your very first post:
"I don't believe in policy lynches"

Isn't "lynch all lurkers" the same as a policy lynch? I admit that in other games you do mention ACTIVE lurking as being scummy. Which I agree with to a certain extent.

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Policy_Lynch

Apparently not, since the wiki doesn't mention lurkers in the Policy Lynch page.

Aren't there lots of ways someone can make a good policy lynch but not be a lurker, per se?

You're really stretching now.

[MonkeyMan576]

The difference between policy lynching and lynch all lurkers, is that lurking in general is scummy, in that it's hard to scumhunt when you are lurking, but I often find the reasoning behind policy lynches to be flawed, and that more often than not, just by probability, a policy lynch will end up being a townie. Any town with decent scumhunting skills should be able to come up with a better lynch candidate than a policy lynch, policy lynching in general is lazy. Besides, I'm not advocating that we lynch lurkers, it's more of a means to find a good scum candidate.

[MonkeyMan576]

The lurkers prod seems to be working, so moving on...

Unvote:
Vote: ArcAngel9

[MonkeyMan576]

Yates is starting to look very OMGUSy. Anyone who disagrees with him is evidently scum. And his tunneling is starting to get to the point where it's scummy too.

ArcAngel9's responce to the vote prod was very bad.

I was thinking HD was town but now I'm starting to think he might be scum again. His strategy seems to be mirroring Yates and that's looking less and less townish.

[MonkeyMan576]

Yates has no intention of stopping his tunneling, and other people besides me have brought up very valid points against him. He is going to go the whole game basing his perception of people on what he (incorrectly) thinks of me, and that is going to hurt the town in the long run.

Unvote:
Vote: Yates

[MonkeyMan576]

@Monkey....do you support lynching lurkers and is that what your current focus is on?

I could see lynching lurkers if there are no better alternatives. But in general, no, I do not support that policy, because there are almost always better alternatives. If someone continuously lurks, that's one thing, but not for just one day of lurking.

[MonkeyMan576]

A few of the points against Yates:


Fitz - @Yates...why are you focusing on what you perceive the experience levels (right or wrong) of the other players is (i.e. Tohica and ace)? Is that indicative of alignment or are you trying to undermine their credibility...or any other reason? Edit...I see -L- is asking the same thing.

Fitz - He's posted more than anyone but I'm not sure how productive he's been. It's like he's holding a not so pleasant mafia gameplay seminar while maintaining IMO a narrow focus on Monkey for a lone incident that on further consideration I don't agree with.

Slandaar - Yeah disband the monkey wagon lynch HD and Yates the two of them don't interact which is strange due to the number of posts they each have and then I will write out HD case later; Yates is scum for above post alone and other things but eh that post should be enough.


That's just off of a breif skimthrough.

[MonkeyMan576]

Yeah I could post a lot more games where ive been tunnelled as town.

[MonkeyMan576]

Id honestly rather not get into any wall arguments with you yates. Im pretty sure most of the rest of the players feel the same way. Youve posted probably almost 100 times already and most of us think youre scummier for it. If you could use your considerable deductive skills for something more productive you might actually help the town.

[MonkeyMan576]

Ive listed five. You may not agree with them, but I wouldnt expect scum too.

[MonkeyMan576]

Oh wait. You accused me of tunneling. So that's 1 for you. One that objectively applies equally to Town and Scum but I'm giving you 1.

Tunneling is scummy. It means you aren't interested in looking at different options and opens up a strong possibility of confermation bias. I also accused you of being omgusy. Two reasons isn't enough to vote someone? Plus I agreed with the other people who have scummy opinions of you.

[MonkeyMan576]

I also accused you of being omgusy.

Well THAT didn't take long...

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p4634039
According to *YOU*:

I'm not sure you understand what OMGUS is.

OMGUS is voting for someone attacking you with a valid case.

So how am I "omgusy" per your definition? I voted you first and haven't changed my vote so.... AND even if you want to try to broaden your definition, there has not been a valid case brought against me [or even a valid POINT brought against me] so... yeah.

Well apparently at least 4 other people, and probably more would disagree with you.

[MonkeyMan576]

lol I've played with qwints in two games recently(one ongoing). Was town in both. This should be interesting.

[MonkeyMan576]

So you have knowledge of my town playstyle and you "policy vote" me anyway qwints? If you are going to read the game anyway why bother with it? Is the content of what you read going to determine your actual vote?

[MonkeyMan576]

I like that yates completely ignores matts very well thought out post in favor of qwints buddying post. This further shows that he is completely unwilling to listen to reason and needs to be lynched. If he is town he is not acting like it.

[MonkeyMan576]

@ArcAngel9, if I have "a clear idea of who is town and who is not", why has my opinion changed on HD, and why have I changed my votes several times?

@Ald, I've made a pretty substantial case, so I'm not sure where you get that from.

I am voting Yates because I think he is scummy, not because "I know what he is." I'm willing to listen to TownYates arguments, but right now Yates is playing like scum.

[MonkeyMan576]

If anything, ArcAngel's "case" supports me being town and Yates being scum. Yates is the one that is not listening to other opinions and acting like he "knows who is town".

Like I said before, besides tunneling he's being omgusy and not listening to reasonable arguments. He's more interested in what people think about him and "looking town" than actually looking for the truth. Also I don't like how he ignored Matts post but responded to qwints post.

[MonkeyMan576]

I am actually starting to get a town read on Yates, based on his feedback to arcangel and that town do have a tendancy to tunnel. May change my vote soon.

[MonkeyMan576]

I think my reasons are valid. I'm not expecting you to agree since the case is against you. Most people don't seem to have a problem with my case.

[MonkeyMan576]

*OMGUSing
*Tunneling
*Not listening/considering other opinions, scenarios
*Concerned about appearing town
*buddying

[MonkeyMan576]

So you see where you have no objective evidence. Which leads me to some questions about the WIFOM reasons you jumped on:

What's the difference between Tunneling and not listening to others?

Where do I appear to be concerned with appearing Town? And if you honestly believe this, is this a trait you think Town wouldn't be concerned with?

Who have I buddied?

How am I supposed to have objective evidence when 99% of your content has been related to me?

Tunneling is being hyperfocused on one person. Not listening to others points towards what your attitude might be later on in the game

You buddied qwints. You ignored a case and you were much more concerned with someone patting you on the head for you mafia abilities.

You're concerned with appearing town I'm guessing etiher because you are scum wanting to endgame or because if you are town you'd rather scumhunt and not have to worry about wagons against you.

[MonkeyMan576]

I think I've been plenty opinionated, and I think considering others opinions is a town trait.

All of my cases may not be scum-indicative on their own, but when you look at the entire package it points towards possible scum.

[MonkeyMan576]

Short of saying "No you," Monkey could not have been less effective at defending himself.

That's selective quoting. I expanded on my opinions in that very post.

Are you seriously not going to make an attempt to hunt anyone else, because if you are going to stay on me like this I should charge my going rate.

[MonkeyMan576]

So basically you aren't gonig to bother with anyone else, you are just going to keep on trying to get me lynched, and then work off of who is reacting to me tomorrow. Decent plan I suppose, but you could do that for anyone and it would be better if you were actually tunneling scum.

[MonkeyMan576]

He doesn't read particularly town in fact more towards scum but the facts are your initial case is clearly wrong, you don't accept this and push it, there is only one reason you would do this;

You are scum.

If you were town you would accept by now that whole fake tell thing was wrong.

If you think he is scum and tunneling me that that would actually make me lean town, I would think.

[MonkeyMan576]

I didn't say to assume it, but it would make a lot more sense for me to be town and him to be scum than for me to be scum and him to be scum. Sure bussing is not uncommon, but townMonkey would make an awfully easy target and explain why he doesn't want to give up his argument.

[MonkeyMan576]

You've admitted you don't care if I'm town or not. But if you're scum you'd know I was town. You're not tunneling to bus me, you're tunneling me because you don't want to admit you made a mistake.

[MonkeyMan576]

There's a big difference between not knowing the backup mod and admitting the basis of your whole day 1 play is faulty.

[MonkeyMan576]

There's a big difference between not knowing the backup mod and admitting the basis of your whole day 1 play is faulty.

There's NO difference between admitting when you made a mistake and admitting when you made a mistake. You claimed I was afraid to admit when I make mistakes. I showed that I'm not afraid to admit when I make mistakes. Qualifiers be damned, you are wrong.

Also, for the record, the LAST thing scum Yates would want to do is paint himself into a corner where he NEVER makes mistakes. How would I be able to explain away a mislynch? <- that is rhetorical.

Uh, there is a big difference. You could say "I admitted I spelled 'its' with an apostrophe when there shouldn't be." and it's clearly different than admitting the premise of your whole day one play is based off a faulty premise. The fact that you won't even admit the difference in that shows that you are more concerned with saving face than helping the town.

[MonkeyMan576]

Mostly, I would expand on that and say that there's a difference between "mob thinking" and listening to others opinions.

[MonkeyMan576]

If we all ignore Yates and don't respond to him will he go away?:P

[MonkeyMan576]

I'm sorry, Yates, but you don't get to dictate how I build my cases. Using other people's ideas is perfectly legit. It's not like I haven't come up with things on my own as well. I've actually given reads on other players where every read you've given is based squarely on your misguided assumption of something that happened on the first page of the day.

[MonkeyMan576]

Nothing slow about it. There was a crap case, so I didn't see the case. The scumminess is on the crap case, not my response.

[MonkeyMan576]

Nothing slow about it.

Are you saying that it normally takes you 9-12 posts to clarify a mistake?

If it's a crap case, yes.

[MonkeyMan576]

Willing to go with Central's plan. I'm not sure L is scum, but this is a meta vote:

Unvote:
Vote: L

I don't intend to address Yates anymore, at least today, I believe this has run it's course.

[MonkeyMan576]

I don't believe Monkey read any meta either.

Will think about things tomorrow its too late atm.

I've skimmed through Newbie 1982 I'll have you know.

[MonkeyMan576]

Yes I read L's meta. I already said that.

[MonkeyMan576]

Whats the difference then Monkey? and why are you hardcore lurking?

I'm not lurking, I was hyperactive the first half of the day, I'm letting some other people get their opinions in.

[MonkeyMan576]

Yes I read L's meta. I already said that.

Cool. Can you quote some stuff from this game and that game to show us how she is playing to her scum meta then quote from a Town game to show how she isn't like that?

Thanks, bro. You are the best.

I will, after I go see The Hobbit tonight with my wife.

[MonkeyMan576]

FOS: Central and ~L~

[MonkeyMan576]

L and Central sound like a fabricated scum confrontation.

[MonkeyMan576]

ArcAngel9 needs to stop it with the newbie crap.

Fitz and Yates are town. L and Central are scum.

[MonkeyMan576]

@L - What do you think of ArcAngel's "I'm confused!" post? Does it sound genuine to you?

[MonkeyMan576]

Yates, can you provide me links of people you have tunneled hard and determined they were town?

[MonkeyMan576]

Yates, can you provide me links of people you have tunneled hard and determined they were town?

Why on earth would I do that?

So you are maintaining everyone you decide to tunnel is scum?

Do you have telepathic powers?

[MonkeyMan576]

My only hesitation is the number of scum reads I have. But this is a very convincing argument.

[MonkeyMan576]

The asd lurking argument.

[MonkeyMan576]

You've posted well over 100 times, so I am not going to read through every post you've made.

If you don't want to link to a game you've tunnelled in AND reached a town conclusion on the player, I will assume you go into your tunneling assuming the alignment of a player, which is obviously scummy, since only scum know a players alignment.

[MonkeyMan576]

@Slandaar: Because he knows I'm town and is scum that wanted to get me mislynched.

Unvote:
Vote: Yates

[MonkeyMan576]

Uh, I just said my case, Yates. Quit being dense. I will give the meta info later but I don't have time right now.

[MonkeyMan576]

Uh, I just said my case, Yates. Quit being dense.

I guess I missed it. I still don't see it. It must be in invisible text.

If you don't want to link to a game you've tunnelled in AND reached a town conclusion on the player, I will assume you go into your tunneling assuming the alignment of a player, which is obviously scummy, since only scum know a players alignment.

[MonkeyMan576]

I'm talking about a case where your tunneling resulted in a favorable town opinion of a player, causing you to decide not to lynch him. Not one where you thought the player was stupid town.

[MonkeyMan576]

Yeah, so basically any time you tunnel is a case of confirmation bias. If the person ends up being scum you give yourself a pat on the back and call yourself a great scumhunter, if you're wrong you say they're derp and deserve it. This is a great excuse for scum to hunt town and cause a mislynch, and if you are town you are doing the town a disservice because you can't be right all the time, and you are not even considering your own inquiries. The questions you ask people are basically pointless and their only purpose is to further your own interests.

[MonkeyMan576]

That's hardly adequete, Yates.

[MonkeyMan576]

He hasn't addressed the satisfactorily at all, ~L~. He said one time when he brought up someone in one or two posts he changed his read. I'm talking about the major tunneling that is the issue. That should be plainly obvious that this is still a major concern.

[MonkeyMan576]

That's hardly adequete, Yates.

1. Of course it would be. Because it completely refutes your allegations.

2. You are also conveniently ignoring the meta that shows that I tunnel as Town which ALSO refutes your argument that I must be scum because I am tunneling.

3. AND you are being omgusy, which is what you said made ME scummy earlier. What's good for the goose isn't good for the Monkey?

It's not OMGUSy at all. My case is far superior to your psuedo-case on me.

[MonkeyMan576]

He doesn't have a case except he thinks I scumslipped regarding when scum can or can't chat, which, as previously stated, was a crap case to begin with. All of his other points revolve around how I responded to his pointless questions.

[MonkeyMan576]

I give up...*throws hand in air*

[MonkeyMan576]

I've posted my case twice in the last twenty posts. Do we really need it a third time.

You calling me useless points exactly to the case I make against you. It's basically a way for you to justify your bad tunnels.

[MonkeyMan576]

You calling me useless points exactly to the case I make against you.

OR - and hear me out on this - you are being useless.

Nope, I'm scumhunting, and unlike you, I actually have the ability to self reflect.

[MonkeyMan576]

He hasn't addressed the satisfactorily at all, ~L~. He said one time when he brought up someone in one or two posts he changed his read. I'm talking about the major tunneling that is the issue. That should be plainly obvious that this is still a major concern.

I suppose it is, but I am uncomfy with the two votes back to back.

What time limit do I have where I am allowed to vote?

[MonkeyMan576]

You know yates just because we all don't have 24 hours a day to research meta doesn't mean we're scum. Moreover just because you do have that much time doesn't mean you're town.

[MonkeyMan576]

Just because I didn't post something doesn't mean I haven't read it.

[MonkeyMan576]

This lynch basically comes down to weather or not you trust Yates to lead the town, knowing that most likely he is never going to change his mind on a major tunnel.

[MonkeyMan576]

It's only a tunnel if I'm wrong.

Wiki disagrees. It has nothing to do with if you are right or not:

Confirmation Bias or Tunnel Vision is when a player becomes convinced by their own arguments by virtue of how long or how strong they hold them.

[MonkeyMan576]

Actually, if you can quote the case I swatted down, L, I will self-vote.

Appeal to emotion...wifiom...how much more scummy does he need to be before he's lynched?

[MonkeyMan576]

It's wifom because you threatening to self vote brings wifom arguments about what scum would do. It's appeal to emotion because you want people to feel sorry for you.

[MonkeyMan576]

You're right...self voting is totally townish.

[MonkeyMan576]

You might want to start thinking about your fakeclaim though.

[MonkeyMan576]

Look at #733.

[MonkeyMan576]

And you are sidestepping the issue. 99% of the day has been about one tunnel.

[MonkeyMan576]

Yeah, so basically any time you tunnel is a case of confirmation bias. If the person ends up being scum you give yourself a pat on the back and call yourself a great scumhunter, if you're wrong you say they're derp and deserve it. This is a great excuse for scum to hunt town and cause a mislynch, and if you are town you are doing the town a disservice because you can't be right all the time, and you are not even considering your own inquiries. The questions you ask people are basically pointless and their only purpose is to further your own interests.

You make a decent point that tunneling to the extent that he has is bad for the town, but I don't see at all how this could be confused with a case on Yates. He's right that your posts are generally not very impactful. He may even be right that the town stands a better chance to win without you as town.

I agree with the point on the questions, but it's a null tell. An innocent with confirmation bias would exhibit identical behavior to a scum running such a gambit.

I tend to be more impactful the more the games move's along. I admit I'm not very good when there is not a lot of information available.

Also I have demonstrated I have the ability to build a consensus, so I must be fairly impactful.

[MonkeyMan576]

As to your second point, I disagree. If he is scum, that is obviously great for us. Even if he is town, he cannot be relied upon to follow anyone's arguments but his own. That said, any goodwill he had built up with his scumhunting at the beginning of the day has pretty much deteriorated with bad arguments and personal attacks.

[MonkeyMan576]

Youre being really insulting. Its nice to know you have such a high opinion of yourself.

[MonkeyMan576]

Yates, you need to stop holding it agaist other people that they dont spend as much time at this as you and that they can articulate more concise arguments.

[MonkeyMan576]

Yates, you need to stop holding it agaist other people that they dont spend as much time at this as you and that they can articulate more concise arguments.

Okay but...

What was "really insulting" about 828?

Youre implying I dont know basic mafia rules or I am lying about it to try to gain an advantage. I am not a noob.

[MonkeyMan576]

You know what? Come to think of it, an L lynch would be just as helpful as a Monkey lynch.

UNVOTE: MonkeyMan576

VOTE: -L-

Survivalist vote. yates is 100% scum.

[MonkeyMan576]

VOTE: Matt-Shadowlord

Actually no going back here, ArcAngel case is bad; using outside meta tells is really weak.

i think you're mixing up theories from the different games and using that as an opportunity to frame here too.
you know what... you're not cocky...i think brain damaged too.. Get over with your freaking attitude and play along.

How have you contributed to this game? What are your scum reads btw?

[MonkeyMan576]

Youre implying I dont know basic mafia rules or I am lying about it to try to gain an advantage.

No, Monkey. I didn't

imply

that you were lying about it to gain an advantage, I flat out

accused you

of lying about it to gain an advantage. That was like... 500 posts ago, dude!

I am not a noob.

Exactly. Why would I have gone through the trouble of showing that you had been scum before? Have I ever called you a noob? Hell no. If you were a noob, I wouldn't have a case on you. The fact that you AREN'T a noob means you should know better and play better and you aren't. But I guess this conversation can wait for tomorrow since I'm going to lynch your buddy today instead.

For example... accusing me of placing a "survivalist vote" on L? WTF is that, Monkey? I'm leaving a LARGER wagon to join a smaller one. You should know, as the veteran I accuse you of being, that your accusation is fallacious. The fact of the matter is that I now know you are both scum. It doesn't matter to me which order you are lynched in.

You know my wagon is basically dead, the size of it doesnt matter. You havent actally scumhunted on your own valid points the whole game. You are creating a lot of noise and distracting the towns ability to win.

The fact you think I would try to pose as a noob is REALLY insulting.

[MonkeyMan576]

@arcangel so you have no scumreads then?

[MonkeyMan576]

VOTE: Matt-Shadowlord

Actually no going back here, ArcAngel case is bad; using outside meta tells is really weak.

i think you're mixing up theories from the different games and using that as an opportunity to frame here too.
you know what... you're not cocky...i think brain damaged too.. Get over with your freaking attitude and play along.

Wait. Are you calling HD brain damaged for saying Matt's case on you is bad? I don't understand this post.

Human Destroyer has issues with the way i play, he basically calls me scum in every game we are on it and this attitude of his is kind of putting me off.. He is basically setting bad example for people to be around here.

as much as i want to play, i wont be able to play having someone like him around.

Lurking is scummy. Take some hard positions. What do you think about L regarding her reactions to me and yates? Do you think I scumslipped regarding scumchat? Do you think its ojay to lynch townies for information? Do you think Yates has the ability to play as a teammember if he is town?

[MonkeyMan576]

UNVOTE: havingfitz

VOTE: -L-

While I did like her contributions in response to my voting, she is in fact egging Yates/MM on and I don't get it. Do you honestly think Yates as scum is going to do this, -L-?

Here is the argument against L.

[MonkeyMan576]

Theres about 5 days left. When do you plan on having a votable scumread?

[MonkeyMan576]

If L is a claimed power role it's only more of a reason we need to lynch Yates.

[MonkeyMan576]

I don't believe her necessarily, but it's not worth the risk of lynching her and her being town. Yates is much more suspicious, has behaving more anti-town and is less of a risk to lynch.

[MonkeyMan576]

I'd be less inclined to believe Yates, but it would depend on his claim.

[MonkeyMan576]

Yates, you still haven't answered the actual question. That's because it has never happened. And that's why your tunneling decisions have absolutely no impact on if the person is actually town or scum.

@Slanndar - That's a really bad case. You posted a bunch of quotes, and your hypothesis is completely unrelated to the quotes you provided. I agree HD might be scum, but if he is not attacking me properly it is because of his own faults, nothing to do with my alignment.

[MonkeyMan576]

Another bad vote from HD.

would be my 2nd choice, but Yates is still probably scum and the biggest distraction to a town victory.

[MonkeyMan576]

Can't believe Yates is falling for the AtE...

[MonkeyMan576]

These are the double standards we're talking about. She's a claimed fucking gunsmith. She could easily be a mafia cop. Yet your case on me has been proven wrong and you still won't admit your wrong.

[MonkeyMan576]

Yeah, that's pretty damning matt.

Unvote:
Vote: ~L~

Yates/L/HD scumteam maybe?

[MonkeyMan576]

Then why did she ask if there were PR's earlier if she is a PR? For someone that is such a stickler for detail you sure seem to be failing here.

[MonkeyMan576]

FOS: Norlkaz

[MonkeyMan576]

I'll give the credit to Matt, he did most of the work.

[MonkeyMan576]

So Matt didn't vote ~L~, that doesn't mean there is a convincing case on her? She scumslipped. I don't know why Matt didn't vote her but that doesn't make ~L~ any less scummy.

I personally think fitz knows ~L~ is the best and most viable wagon and is trying to cause a no lynch, knowing there are only a few days left before nightfall.

[MonkeyMan576]

I think Yates is scum with ~L~.

[MonkeyMan576]

I don't care which order

my scum suspects are

anyone is lynched as long as they are lynched and as long as

they are scum

it's not me.

[MonkeyMan576]

Yes, there are definatley scum on the wagon but it wasn't me. How can you say ArcAngel's vote was okay?

Vote: ArcAngel9

[MonkeyMan576]

I wuoldn't have a problem with the hammer if there was a decent explanation for the vote. The case on L was pretty bad, but there was no need for a hammer that quickly. She needs pressure, she is very emotional and reactive, so a wagon should be quite fruitful.

[MonkeyMan576]

Ah yes, keep forgetting she was replaced.

Perhaps not as reactive as ArcAngel, but penguin still needs to be wagoned.

[MonkeyMan576]

Well, Slaandar was pretty hard on HD, now that I think about it, I'd probably be ok with an HD wagon as much as I would be a penguin wagon.

[MonkeyMan576]

If HD is scum, Yates is next on my list.

Unvote:
Vote: Human Destroyer

[MonkeyMan576]

Yates, did you post about You Could Be Anyone Mafia by mistake?

[MonkeyMan576]

Having finished reading the part of the game that kicked off the -L- wagon (and for the record I'm caught up now), I at least see where it came from, and I do agree with the sentiment that started it, i.e. that the Yates-MonkeyMan576 argument was a big shield for the actual scum. Yates seems town to me, as while it's not wholly conclusive, I played a game with him where he replaced into a scum slot and spent a lot of time being super-reasonable and not inflammatory. Which isn't to say that he is being irrational per se, but from what I've seen of his scum play, he's much more appeasing as scum. The MonkeyMan576 case was way too protracted; it would have been a good way to get discussion going, but the way it dominated the full day phase was just inane when reading through the game after the fact. Still, I didn't get a scum vibe from his defense. His posts so far today don't supplement the town read very well, what with him being rather content to wagon either me or Human Destroyer, particularly the latter for weak reasons. MonkeyMan576, aside from the NK and hoping that a scum-Human Destroyer would point to scum-Yates, what's your reasoning on Human Destroyer?

I agree with qwints about Matt-Shadowlord's posting this day phase. It's incredibly suspicious that you, Matt-Shadowlord, felt the need to defend your not being on the wagon as your open to the day, along with your "RIP -L-" sentiment. And then wanting to speculate on the NK without offering up any of your own thoughts to indicate why you think it's relevant? Sounds like you're trying to steer us to a fallacious conclusion without leaving behind fingerprints. How often does the first NK provide solid leads? I wouldn't say never, but it seems like one of the least effective scum-hunting tactics around.

VOTE: Matt-Shadowlord

HD's play was pretty bad overall yesterday, and that combined with Slannder's death gives me a fairly good lead that he's scum. I play poker and when you play poker one thing you try to do when assessing a "bluff" is to determine if someones "story makes sense." I try to use that kind of analysis when playing Mafia, and to me everything going on with HD points to him being scummy. Plus killing him would give us lots of info on other players, and the mafia's nk reasoning.

[MonkeyMan576]

What you talking about, fitz? I just said Yates needs to be lynched if HD is scum.

[MonkeyMan576]

Another bad vote from HD.

would be my 2nd choice, but Yates is still probably scum and the biggest distraction to a town victory.

Can't believe Yates is falling for the AtE...

How does scum "fall for AtE?"

Obviously if they are scummates then Yates would have more reasons to "feel sorry" for ~L~.

[MonkeyMan576]

Monkey:
I'm not talking about 'feeling sorry.' I am talking about 'falling for' ATE. How can a scum get fooled into thinking a scum is town?
Basically, you're calling Yates scum and talking about him like he's town. I want you to reconcile those statements.

I was being sarcastic and pointing out how his behavior wasn't pro-town.

[MonkeyMan576]

MonkeyMan576, if last day phase showed anything, I'd think it would be that bad play is hardly exclusive to scum in this game. What specifically was scummy to you in Human Destroyer's play yesterday? After yesterday's lynch, I'm surprised you'd support a lynch for information.

*Backtracking
*His "Good Wagon Here" post, then admitting I know the daychat rules.
*OMGUS vote on Slandaar.

I generally don't support information lynches if it's a town player, but if it's a scummy player AND you get info, it's a win-win situation.

[MonkeyMan576]

I'm pretty sure we can say that you're active in a game with player A, as long as we're not talking about any specifics about what's going on in that game. It's general knowledge and can be found by doing a site search with "Human Destroyer" and "ArcAngel9".

[MonkeyMan576]

You realize that a lot more people are suspicious of you than me, right fitz?

[MonkeyMan576]

fitz is saying Yates and I have a "truce" which is not true at all. Yates may realize he had a bad initial case, but Yates is still probably my second suspect. So there really is no basis for fitz' case, and his switch from "The Monkey case was bad" to "Monkey is scum" without hardly any reasoning is very sketchy.

[MonkeyMan576]

I did, but that's a fully valid reason for voting and was the best case available to vote on at the time by almost any measurement.

[MonkeyMan576]

~L~ implied that she didn't know if there were power roles in the game. ~L~ had a power role. ~L~ was lying. How is that not a solid case?

[MonkeyMan576]

So you are making a WIFOM case. Bravo.

[MonkeyMan576]

Yates are you HD's buddy?

I'd be more inclined to start looking at people OFF the L wagon...

On Wagon: The Central Scrutinizer, Yates, qwints,

Human Destroyer

, MonkeyMan576, theaceofspades, , ArcAngel9 [L-0]
MonkeyMan576: Alduskkel, havingfitz

I'm starting to seriously think there is a HD/Yates scumteam.

[MonkeyMan576]

^That's the worst argument for a scum team ever.

With that logic, you can say everyone on that wagon is Yates' scumbuddy.

Also, nice try Norlkaz, but I do think about how I'm perceived as town.

@TAOS: It would actually not be a very bad kill; it implicates me as scum, plus, as far as I remember Slandaar didn't really do too much in the interactions department other than me, Yates, and Monkey, so it wouldn't be a very informative kill.

I'm not arguing anyone on the wagon is Yates scumbuddy, I'm saying you are, because Slandaar suspected you and Yates is protecting you. If Yates is town, why isn't Yates dead and not Slandaar?

[MonkeyMan576]

I don't think it's a stretch to say that Scum generally want to kill the most townish players for the most part, and since we know Slandaar is town, that points strongly to ScumYates/ScumHD.

[MonkeyMan576]

@town, vote HD, ignore fitz.

[MonkeyMan576]

Slandaar thought Yates and HD were both scummy, Slandaar is dead, and was thus proably townish. Yates protecting HD reinforces them being on the same team.

[MonkeyMan576]

Scumreads

HD
Yates
havingfitz

Aldusskel
qwints
The Central Scrutinizer

The Ace Of Spades
Matt-Shadowlord

[MonkeyMan576]

OR you know you have no case and don't want to just admit you were wrong and move on.

[MonkeyMan576]

Scumreads

HD
Yates
havingfitz

Aldusskel
qwints
The Central Scrutinizer
penguin

The Ace Of Spades
Matt-Shadowlord

[MonkeyMan576]

You're funny Monkey. You really are coming across scummy and the fact that I'm the only person voting you is extremely annoying.

On your scum list...for what reasons do I appear there and where are your previous suspicions towards me? And where does the switch from Fitz and Yates are town. L and Central are scum. wrt to me (and Central for that matter) occur?

And why are you leaving penguin_alien off your list of suspects?

As for my switch onto you...I've given my reasoning for suspecting you. The fact I did not think your "extended scum QT" related posts were suspect after further consideration has no bearing on my current suspicions towards you.

And call your interactions with Yates today anything you want, but the way you were at each other yesterday compared with today can more than appropriately be considered a truce. Just because you both keep saying you suspect each other means nothing until one of you busses the other through to a lynch.

P.edit....can't you answer a question without a question/s Yates?

Yeah, calling me scummy isn't OMGUSy. The fact is your reads have been all over the place. One minute you call someone townish, the other minute you call someone scum, you have many soft attacks that leave you room to switch your reads later on. That being said, you are a far third on my scum list behind HD and Yates.

[MonkeyMan576]

Scumreads

HD
Yates
havingfitz

Aldusskel
qwints
The Central Scrutinizer
penguin

The Ace Of Spades
Matt-Shadowlord

What's fueling your town reads on theaceofspades and Matt-Shadowlord? And as long as we're adding people to your reads list, how about rounding it out with Norlkaz?

Ace of spades doesn't always have the best responces but in general his reads coincide with mine. I think Matt has been a good scumhunter and has good reads, and is obviously willing and able to think independantly.

[MonkeyMan576]

I think Matt has been a good scumhunter and has good reads, and is obviously willing and able to think independantly.

Don't you try link up with me! Bizatch I will cut you, I will cut you right in yo' face

(How's that Yates; is my style becoming more suited to the rough and tumble of Mafiascum.net? )

What, you don't love me anymore?

[MonkeyMan576]

I don't really feel like I have anything to defend. There's a difference between making posts that sound bad and having good reads. I find the later is a better indicator of townish play. The former is easy to mislynch. Plus the person attacking me is already on my scumlist, so I'm taking it with a grain of salt.

[MonkeyMan576]

Because you are near the top of my scumlist.

[MonkeyMan576]

Because you are near the top of my scumlist.

So you don't have to answer questions from people you arbitrarily declare scummy?

Ive answered them. Im just reiterating all questions dont jave the same degree of importance or relevence. Like when you insisted I scumslipped and it was obviously not a scumslip. Scum will try to initiate lines of questioning that distract the town so I focus more on the people I consider town. The scum questioning is more relavant in where not to look.

[MonkeyMan576]

@TCS....so how does Alduskkel go from 4th most suspect player on your list when he isn't doing shit, to the top of your list after he comes on and promises to start contributing?

Norklaz answered.

He's not the top of my scum list. I'm voting him for policy reasons at this point. Every time he comes in and posts fluff makes him look more and more like lazy scum.

I agree, and Yates going from his wagon to my wagon on a fluff comment from fitz makes Yates look even more scummy and looking like someone trying to avoid bussing his scumpartner.

[MonkeyMan576]

Unvote:
Vote: Alduskkel

Yates unvote speaks volumes.

[MonkeyMan576]

Monkey; that's a nice antisurvivalist vote but you should put your vote back on HD.
It would be silly if you got lynched today, considering how poorly thought out the various attacks on you have been.

Qwints, you should join us too.
TCS you also.

There are only a few days left, so if we want to have any time for final deliberations we should initiate the claim -> lynch cycle.

I'll go back on the HD wagon if need be, but Ald's play is just silly and anti-town.

[MonkeyMan576]

You're funny Monkey. You really are coming across scummy and the fact that I'm the only person voting you is extremely annoying.

On your scum list...for what reasons do I appear there and where are your previous suspicions towards me? And where does the switch from Fitz and Yates are town. L and Central are scum. wrt to me (and Central for that matter) occur?

And why are you leaving penguin_alien off your list of suspects?

As for my switch onto you...I've given my reasoning for suspecting you. The fact I did not think your "extended scum QT" related posts were suspect after further consideration has no bearing on my current suspicions towards you.

And call your interactions with Yates today anything you want, but the way you were at each other yesterday compared with today can more than appropriately be considered a truce. Just because you both keep saying you suspect each other means nothing until one of you busses the other through to a lynch.

P.edit....can't you answer a question without a question/s Yates?

Sorry, didn't see this.

RE Penguin: Oversight. I'm nuetral on him for now.

RE L and Central. When L flipped town and Yates started seeming more scummy.

RE Yates. I still strongly suspect Yates. Yates realized he's not going to survive long arguing stupid arguments. You can't blame me that he pretty much wasted his first day.

[MonkeyMan576]

Alright. Screw it.

@Fitz

- do you know something we don't know as a result of your role? A one for one swap would be acceptable at this point but we MIGHT have a BG/Doc if you do...

This sounds pretty desperate. HD should be the #1 suspect right now, focusing attention back to me and fitz is definately a scum ploy.

[MonkeyMan576]

Welll statement retracted then.

[MonkeyMan576]

I'm also willing to hammer.

[MonkeyMan576]

VOTE: Unvote:
Vote: HD

[MonkeyMan576]

First of all, Yates could be lying.

Second of all, if HD flips scum I still say that points to YatesScum.

[MonkeyMan576]

HD you're not making much of an effort here. Give me a reason why...... you know..... I'm almost sure your scum. Hammer away boys.

Side note. Holy crap. This day has been SHORT, compared to day one. Geeze it's like 41:9 posts.

That's because we have information and we're not going off of (scum driven) mindless theories.

[MonkeyMan576]

VOTE: Yates[/unvote]

He was called out by Slandaar as for being on a scumteam with HD and then Slandaar was nightkilled for it. Slandaar was right about HD and given Yates anti-town behavior, I would bet he was right about Yates too.

Also Yates is 0-2 on lynches, he lynched ~L~ and did not lynch HD.

The Central Scrutizer is the other player with a poor voting history, but he is behaving more townish imho.

[MonkeyMan576]

Vote: Yates

[MonkeyMan576]

VOTE: Monkey Man

Opportunistic voting.

How so? Yates was my second choice yesterday and the HD flip just cements his scumminess.

[MonkeyMan576]

We now know scum had daytalk.

Wait. How do we know this?

An Encryptor is a role that allows people who can converse with it to

talk during the Day phase

. Otherwise, they are restricted to speaking during the Night phase.

[MonkeyMan576]

Also Yates is 0-2 on lynches, he lynched ~L~ and did not lynch HD.

I see. I'm scum because HD self-hammered. Excellent logic.

You're scum because you've been consistantly scummy.

Are you saying you intended to be on the HD wagon and mysteriously decided not to be on it?

[MonkeyMan576]

He was called out by Slandaar as for being on a scumteam with HD and then Slandaar was nightkilled for it. Slandaar was right about HD and given Yates anti-town behavior, I would bet he was right about Yates too.

So in addition to your logic being terrible, it is also hypocritical.

I just looked at Penguin and Fitz to see who they suspected to see if there was one person they both had in common. You know what I noticed?

Yates seems town to me, as while it's not wholly conclusive, I played a game with him where he replaced into a scum slot and spent a lot of time being super-reasonable and not inflammatory. Which isn't to say that he is being irrational per se, but from what I've seen of his scum play, he's much more appeasing as scum.

So I think we can agree scum Yates wouldn't have killed Penguin - who was championing my Town-Yates status.

His [MonkeyMan576] posts so far today don't supplement the town read very well, what with him being rather content to wagon either me or Human Destroyer, particularly the latter for weak reasons.

Interesting...

havingfitz, I follow your case against MonkeyMan576, but I think Matt-Shadowlord is

scummier

right now.

Wait. Did I just see this? Did Penguin AND Fitz - who BOTH died last night - agree on Monkey being scummy???

I guess we better check Fitz's ISO just to make sure...

VOTE: Monkey

@town, vote Monkey.

@Yates...HTF did Monkey go to a "possibly" for you?

You're funny Monkey. You really are coming across scummy and the fact that I'm the only person voting you is extremely annoying.

^ Monkey is scum so you may find all sorts of inconsistencies.

Try not to defend Monkey so blatantly... almost everything you called a towntell in your defense of MM could be viewed as a reason for suspicion by others.

@Yates...I'm basing my suspicions of Monkey on how I've perceived his play. A continuation of my end of D1 suspicions plus his play today.

So... I guess that verifies Fitz thought Monkey was scum.

So tell me again, Monkey, how it is that the deaths of Penguin and Fitz, both of whom thought you were scummy, points to ME being scum? I really want to see you try on those tap dancing shoes.

Pretty much any case against you is always worse than your cases evidently. You are a master casebuilder so thus you are innocent. That's pretty much your logic.

[MonkeyMan576]

I can't beleive we're going back to this. *sigh*.

[MonkeyMan576]

Yeah, if the deaths last night mean bad things about anyone it's monkey.
It's hard to tell which one was a vigshot though. It'd be funny if slandaar was a non-mafia shot too.
Monkey, how come you just took Yates' "how do we know this" in stride?
Looks to me like a hard confusion to fake, but Yates has almost 3k posts so it's a weird confusion for him to arrive at.

I believe that daytalk makes distancing more likely, particularly between active players. Certainly doesn't guarantee it though.

HD's ISO leads me to think Monkey + Aldus;
HD has less reason to try and refute him-Yates-Monkey scumteam if there's no truth to it.

@havingfitz - Isn't scumchat usually limited to either all the time or night only? If day has started I don't know how they could be "extending their chat."

This comment is a little bit more likely from a daytalk mafia than a regular mafia; in this and another post monkey mentions daychat.


Monkey might actually be today's lynch, but I've been known to say silly things in the AM.
I will continue my reevaluation tomorrow.

I think there are better things Yates could lie about honestly, but the comment was for anyone who didn't know what an encyrptor was, not just towards Yates.

It's interesting the things you are looking at but totally ignoring voting record.

[MonkeyMan576]

Pretty much any case against you is always worse than your cases evidently.

Evidently. A lot of that probably has to do with me being Town, though. Just a hunch.

You are a master casebuilder so thus you are innocent. That's pretty much your logic.

I'm not innocent because of case building, I build cases because I'm innocent and playing to my win condition. I know it's not a concept you are demonstrating here so I guess that makes one wonder about you. It didn't take

any effort at all

to do a quick scum read analysis on our two NK's. I must look like a "master casebuilder [sic]" because evidence was overwhelming, not because of anything on my part.

Instead of crying about how bad you are at this game, why don't you try to refute or explain some of this and why it *doesn't* point to Monkey-scum.

I guess I'm back to this again until proven wrong:
VOTE: MonkayMan576

So you're saying you don't build cases as scum?

[MonkeyMan576]

I build cases because I'm innocent and playing to my win condition.

Here is a pretty substantial case you built as scum in Dragonball Z Mafia, so you are lying.

My first post in the game, Acosmist was at L-1. The fact that Acosmist is all but confirmed Town reinforces my early belief that scum was on his wagon.

This was my summary at the time:

- I gave dicknose/MoI slot a pass for RVS vote.
- Benmage - the "/srs?" was suspect even back in my very first post.
- Thor - said it wasn't a "lulz" vote and wanted to get a reaction out of Acosmist.
- Psyche/sniffit - this is the second vote that I couldn't find a reason for. Also, he never told us Acosmist's "scum slip" and the fake dayvig thing was terrible.
- BK - why did you run this up to 5 so fast? This looks like more of a legit pressure vote [based on later posts] but what did you hope to get out of this play?
- MattP/mcqueen - Seriously? You put him at L-1 just like that?? I haven't even had time to erect my morning hard on and you already put a player at L-1??

This gave me the idea to look at the rest of the Day's major wagons.

Here's the Slandaar wagon as of 527:
- Me
- *Benmage
- *dicknose/MoI
- *Psyche/sniffit
- *Thor

Here's the Acosmist wagon version 2 as of 677:
- *Me
- **Thor
- *mcqueen/MattP
- **sniffit/Psyche
- JohnnyFarrar

Now I look at my wagon as of post 952:
- Slandaar -
- Acosmist -
- **Benmage -
- **dicknose/MoI -
- Agent_Ireland -

I will admit that it isn't a *perfect* system. However, I do find it telling that Ben and MoI were on 3 of the 4 major wagons and they are two of my stronger suspicious suspects.

I was kind of bummed to see Thor and sniffit show up in 3/4 as well as it lessens the impact of my findings. I have Thor as obvTown so I'm not sure how to reconcile that other than to consider it an outlier. I also have sniffit as a strong Town read that turned the Psyche slot around so I'll chalk that up to poor play by Psyche?

Acosmist is obvTown at this point.

I will begrudgingly admit that there is a good chance Slandaar is Town BUT I'm not ruling out the fakeclaim and I would want to see some flavor flips. Still, he wouldn't be in my top 2 [or 3] suspects pool as of today.

BK has been playing solid Town [except for 955 - I'll get there].

I <3 PV so... yeah. I'll always have him as a solid Town read until he does something super dumb.

JohnnyFarrar is either Town or scum buddying me [knowing I'll be a mislynch]. When he posts content I agree [especially 561 and 677!] with just about everything he says and understand his logic. This is why I don't understand the people willing to vote JF. What's the case on him? I can't see anything scummy - AT ALL.

I didn't like MattP but mcqueen's 646 was good. Meh. I guess he could be scum but MattP was starting to get Townish and mcqueen is continuing that trend. Maybe null to null Town?

AI is either VI or terrible scum. Either way, he's terrible. I'm glad he's being replaced as it will make that slot an easier read, I feel. I have him as scummy,

iDanny was scum. Syndrome improved the slot with 831 and 862. The attempts at humor feel fabricated, though, and weaken his position. Then 926 comes back with a strong post. Then his next posts are super weak. I agree that he might want to consider replacing out and playing in Road to Rome if he can't stay strong on his own. That kind of play [like AI] makes a slot hard to filter through. I have him as poor Town with an outside shot at being scum.

So my scum list in order from most to least likely?
Ben
AI
MoI
iDanny
Slandaar
Then pond scum
Then the ocean
Then whale poop
Then JohnnyFarrar

[MonkeyMan576]

I'd be okay with lynching Ald, but Yates is far ahead as my first choice. I am 95% sure he is scum.

[MonkeyMan576]

Okay then.

Unvote:
Vote: Alduskkel

[MonkeyMan576]

I dont know how Yates is still alive.

Matt could be scum..looking back, the nonvote of L is suspicious.

Central is also 0-3 voting.

vote yates

[MonkeyMan576]

And if Monkey is mafia as Yates has so frequently insisted, why the heck is AOTS pushing up daisies instead of Yates.

Just another thought on this... and I know it's WAAAAY out there...

VOTE: Monkey Man

Opportunistic voting.

TAOS was on to Monkey.

TAOS also brought up what HD brought up, that Slandaar's town flip strongly implicates you.

SO unless it's a very clever gambit. Slandaar and Yates cannot both be scum. And right now Yates reads more scummy to me. So my vote stays there

Yates are you HD's buddy?

TAOS was misguided about my vote on you, I've been pretty consistant and there's nothing opportunistic about my voting.

[MonkeyMan576]

*HD's scum flip brought up.

With two scum likely remaining I think it's highly probable that either Yates or Central is scum, or both.

[MonkeyMan576]

I find it REAAAAAALLLLLY bad that Yates is 0-3 voting and is acting like Matt's question is invalid.

[MonkeyMan576]

Okay, that's not OMGUSy, reactive, and survivalist.

Your schtick of accusing any argument against you of being stupid is getting a bit tiring.

[MonkeyMan576]

I'm leaning monket and tcs as scum. I'll post more next week. Phone only access to Sunday.

A bit odd on the choices. The case on tcs is almost exclusively voting record while I have one of the better voting records out there. Care to explain?

[MonkeyMan576]

I know I'm town; You are free to reach your own conclusions.

if HD's scum, Matt looks very, very town.

Can you explain this for me?

I reread Yates and I'll accept my loss to a strong effort from a good opponent if he turns out to be scum.

We might simply be obligated to lynch monkey because we are guaranteed to lose (via Yates mislynch) if Monkey's town.

At what point does a person's voting record come into play for you? Is one never accountable? We don't have that many days left.

[MonkeyMan576]

Oh, Monkey isn't hanged yet? Be back tomorrow.

In other words you can't justify your voting. You've lynched two townies and did not lynch the scum that a lot of people wagoned. To me this is a no brainer.

[MonkeyMan576]

Okay, so the remaining scum are Yates/Central. GG fellaz. Can we lynch Yates now please? Sometimes if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck it's a duck.

[MonkeyMan576]

I am making an argument. You need to be accountable for your voting history and scum have been riding this whole game getting away with lynching townies, which is great for their win con, but horrible for town.

[MonkeyMan576]

The point is that scum knew L and Ald were town. Looking back, there were warning signs on both lynches, but scum took advantage of lazy town.

[MonkeyMan576]

L could have been given a chance to prove her powers, while the Ald lynch was very quick and he said he was going to post content soon and asked to be replaced.

[MonkeyMan576]

Your points are unpersuasive.

I think you're a little biased there. You're not the one I need to persuede.

[MonkeyMan576]

And no I don't think no lynch is a good idea.

[MonkeyMan576]

Is there an indication that TCS intended to vote for HD?

[MonkeyMan576]

And just because you don't like the reasons for my votes doesn't make me scum. I'd be more worried about people that have had anti-town votes every step in the game.