Mini 1426 - Hell's Bottom

[qwints]

Prod acknowledged. Missed the game start, so I'm reading now.

[qwints]

Prod acknowledged. Missed the game start, so I'm reading now.

[qwints]

Okay- KBW looks noob town to me. Jeromus is trying to play town leader probably with town motivations.

VOTE: YOLO

for the rolefishing/lack of opinions.

Also, did someone really call out a player for coaching Flay?

[qwints]

Look at the number of times jermous has told someone to do something or change their play. That's what I'm talking about.

[qwints]

I'm going to wait on Yolo to contribute before I move my vote anywhere else.

[qwints]

content-free posting it is indeed. I ascribed too much credit to trying to generate useful play.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Jeromus

[qwints]

Everyone needs to post more. Especially YOLO.

[qwints]

Your high post count combined with a lack of real content is scummy. You're putting very few reads into a lot of words.

[qwints]

Frequent reactions to some of what happened are much more useful than rare big catch up posts.

YOLO, what do you think of the Jeromus wagon?

[qwints]

Going back to answer a question:

Yet you moved your vote a few posts later for something like 'content free posting'. Is this really such a big scumtell to you that you would contradict your earlier statement?

The game was stalling as basically nothing had been posted over an entire day. I'm glad to see it didn't prevent you from contributing.

Blue Yoshi, how can you do a gigantic read post like that and not come out with a vote?

[qwints]

[quote="In post 236, Blue Yoshi"

I don't know if I'm the only one who is seeing this, but Key seems really anxious to pull this lynch through. To the point where it doesn't seem like horrible noobishness with a touch of VI. It legitimately seems scummy.[/quote]

Are you saying you'd be voting Jeromus if he wasn't at L-1? Is this an intent to hammer? Or are you saying you don't like the Jeromus wagon becasue of KBW?

[qwints]

[]vote]jeromus[/vote]

[qwints]

VOTE: jeromus plz die now

[qwints]

Blocked by the mod. Lame.

Jeromus, how do you not know what sheeping is?

[qwints]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: ArcAngel9

[qwints]

I fake hammered first,and the mod noticed before anyone else did (about 30 minutes later).

VOTE: jeromus plz die now

Not falling for it qwints... though I nearly locked the thread because of you.

About 3 hours later rainbowash did the same thing which Jeromus apparently reacted to with "go town".

This doesn't matter cause AA is now obv scum.

[qwints]

How about a short post or posting it in bits?

[qwints]

I wouldn't say both are scum, but at least 1 is. The question is which one?

How do you get to that conclusion?

[qwints]

That's actually one of my favorite relational tells between scum buddies.

[qwints]

Elyse is looking pretty town. Need to review some stuff from yesterday.

[qwints]

VOTE: Jeromus Blue Yoshi only seemed suspicious of Jeromus and the reaction seems faked.

[qwints]

Bub:

If you had a problem with the Arc wagon, why didn't you say so yesterday? You thought Jeromus was pretty scummy yesterday, so why not comment on his weird post to start off the day?

[qwints]

Bub, your read made me double-check my pm. Are you really just going off the "3rd vote on a mislynch is scum" thing? I'm seriously confused by your posts since I know you're not a cop with a guilty, and your case makes no sense to me.

Elyse, I'm pretty positive you're town, but I don't understand the HD scum read. Mind explaining? I'd also like to hear what you think about Jeromus's reaction to the nk.

[qwints]

Elyse I'm pretty sure you're town, so I believe your claim. Vig your biggest scum read.

[qwints]

Two major suspects are V/LA, what do you expect?

Elyse, take the shot!

[qwints]

Bub, who's your second choice?

[qwints]

RBD, how does the Jeromus flip affect your YOLO scum read?

[qwints]

Blue Yoshi's other scum read:

I don't know if I'm the only one who is seeing this, but Key seems really anxious to pull this lynch through. To the point where it doesn't seem like horrible noobishness with a touch of VI. It legitimately seems scummy.

Spoiler: KBW's impossibly short memory

Flay, why are you voting me?

KBW, last page:

Looking at Blue Yoshi's ISO, I'm not seeing any Power Role tells to speak of, and he really only seems to strongly suspect two people: KBW and jeromus. Of the two I can only see KBW killing him for it. Pair that with the lack of posting today so far (while being active on the site),and you end up with VOTE: Keybladewielder.

RBD doesn't your YOLOvote require jeromus to be scumbuddies with him, though? I'm not following but it may be the lack of commas. Also I don't like the company being kept on the jeromuswagon.

Hold it. How does that equal a scumtell. A) I had nothing to say. B) Wouldn't I I've killed him then if what you say is true?

Who died last night? I didn't check. I didn't shoot anyone, Flay.

In fact your pushing this makes me think you are the shooter.

VOTE: Keybladewielder

[qwints]

(im not sure that jeromus is good enough scum to read those situations)

Who did you actually mean to talk about here?

[qwints]

Desp is obv-scum now.

[qwints]

Ok, we're at Lylo if there's 3 scum, but we've also got the easiest lynch ever after yesterday's bizarre hammer.

Is anyone opposed to lynching Desparado?

This is also one of those days where the usual rules don't apply. Given that Desperado is obv-scum, I think we're better off lynching him while keeping relatively quiet. That forces scum to take another shot without being able to adjust to our reads. Thus I would like everyone to simply post yay-nay on a Desparado quick lynch before we do anything else.

I'm for it.

[qwints]

No town makes this post:

I'm not jumpy, and I'm not afraid of anything, other than you latching on to a clearly dubious wagon that I've already debunked without offering a single thought of your own. Dash, Qwints, and HD--there's your scum team. Here, I'll show you:

Unvote: Human Destroyer
Vote: KBW

No town throws a vote down while complaining about other people being reckless during Lylo.

I see no reason to give Desparado's teammates more info. He can keep talking all he wants, but that hammer yesterday was a scum claim.

Everyone else, I want a up/down comment on Despardo being scum before we do anything else.

[qwints]

I veto massclaim. RBD:

Yes/no to desparado lynch.

[qwints]

RBD, do you think desparado's scum?

Yes/no?

[qwints]

Because you're obv-scum due to the hammer and the vote to start today, and I don't see the point of giving your team mates additional info. Nothing happens until everyone says whether they agree you're scum or not.

[qwints]

I'm not asking for votes. I'm asking for people to say whether or not they think Desparado is scum.

Mr. Flay, is Desperado scum?

[qwints]

HD, since we're sure that desperado is scum, what good does mass claiming do? Unless there's a cop with a guilty on someone, I don't see the benefit besides allowing scum to account for our PRs.

Do you think despardo is scum?

[qwints]

What changed your mind?

Wait hold on a second

That was really bad

If the scumteam is RBD/qwints/me

Why did you just hammer that

[qwints]

And I'm not claiming until everyone has weighed in on what they think about Desperado.

[qwints]

The massclaim will not continue until everyone has weighed in on Despeardo's status.

[qwints]

RBD - what's your opinion on Desparado. Is he scum or not?

qwints - scum
Elyse - scum
Flay - "Probably, I don't know."
HD - "I'm not particularly sure"
RBD - ? [Several posts without an opinion]
Yolo - ? [hasn't posted]

[qwints]

YOLO, I'm not claiming until you give an opinion on whether Desperado is scum or not. Do you think he's scum?

[qwints]

I'm not going to claim until RBD and YOLO weigh in on Desperado.

Let's remember why Desparado is scum. He hammered to put us into this situation, despite believing that it was a "clearly dubious wagon that I've already debunked." He hammered despite thinking the "Dash, Qwints, and HD-" scum team he imagined were all on the wagon. His case right before calling out that scum team WAS THE ONLY OTHER PLAYER ON THE WAGON. In what universe does town hammer someone they think is town while they think the entire wagon on them is scum. It wasn't a deadline vote. It wasn't a 1v1 vote.

Then, he votes me with his first post of the day. Despite the fact that I had just pointed out we were in LYLO if there were 3 scum - which he seemed to believe given that he called out a 3 person scum team the day before.

Now he's already claimed VT. Unless there's a PR that can clear him or who can implicate someone else, I don't buy that a mass claim is going to give us a better suspect. If that's the case, then doing anything besides lynching Desperado is a bad idea. Stop with this general theory, and look at the circumstances.

[qwints]

Sorry YOLO, I was confused by you talking about his good reasoning.

Current opinions on Desperado

qwints - scum
Elyse - scum
Flay - "Probably, I don't know."
HD - "I'm not particularly sure"
RBD - ? [Several posts without an opinion]
Yolo - "let's lynch him" but not before a claim

RBD, I'm not claiming until you give an opinion on Desparado.

[qwints]

qwints - scum
Elyse - scum
Yolo - lynch him
Flay - Probably scum
HD - not sure
RBD - not scum

I'm a cop, I bread crumbed in my first few posts. The first letter of my first few posts spell POLICE. (Actuallly PPOLICE because of a double post, but whatever.) I got an innocent on Elyse N1, and a guilty on Desparado N2. Now can we lynch Desparado and pray he's the RB'er without revealing any more PR's please?

[qwints]

Desperado: Hey you investigated someone you thought was scummy? No fair!

[qwints]

Good effort. Who are your buddies?

[qwints]

What question? The question of why I investigated someone I thought was scum and then tried to get them lynched without revealing myself?

[qwints]

Why are we giving scum any more information at this point? What possible benefit do we get by finishing the mass claim today?

[qwints]

Because like Desp said, that was a really bad investigation if you are scum.

Huh?

[qwints]

. But you dont normally investigate the player you are planning to be voting, hit the outside null suspects because its easier to "change" reads.

Except for the fact that a nk going through meant we'd be in Lylo if we had 3 scum. My "obv-scum" post at the end of the day gave me the ability to push a lynch on my guilty target without arising suspicion, meaning scum might have a chance to get another investigation in without scum being aware of my role. I can certainly understand the argument that a Desparado investigation wasn't optimal, but calling bizarre just doesn't make sense. Here's why you can know I'm actually a cop:

1) Breadcrumbed D1
2) Reported result of my N1 investigation in my first D2 post
3) Reported result of my N2 investigation in my first D3 post

Why I chose Elyse - she got on the AA wagon in a somewhat awkward way. She had several posts complaining about the AA wagon, then says she's willing to join it because of the lack of progress and finally only votes after a vote count. I got town and behaved accordingly.

Why I chose Desperado - I didn't want to lose if he was a VI.

RBD, what possible benefit do we get out of continuing the mass claim? Set-up spec leads me to guess that, at most, there's some sort of protective role left. If we don't claim, scum have to figure out whether to shoot Elyse or me while worrying about a protective role. If we do, scum can plan their night actions accordingly. Why help them?

[qwints]

EBWOP "meaning I might have a chance to get another investigation in without scum being aware of my role"

[qwints]

It doesn't help that half the town seemed to have checked out of the game. I really wish conf-town Elyse was posting more right now.

[qwints]

Perhaps you could address the arguments that RBD is using for a mass claim? Or explain why you agree with me?

[qwints]

The two or three (probably two because scum-despeardo was talking about 3 scum) townies besides my and Elyse need to learn how to think for themselves. Why would you push/agree to a mass claim in this situation? I am incredibly frustrated with you right now for playing into scum's hands.

At this point, we probably need to give reads before lynching desparado since scum's night action are pretty forced. Unless despardo's the role blocker, I don't like our chances. Any reason not to give reads now?

[qwints]

and VT's eager to make sure scum know the set-up, and don't have to worry about a protective role.

[qwints]

I agree on RBD reading despeardo's iso. I like YOLO over Flay for the 3rd slot.

[qwints]

Why do you keep assuming there's a scum RB, qwints?

Set-up spec. I'm just used to roleblockers in games with full cops. I suppose scum could all be goons given the paucity of town power.

[qwints]

An example of why I think 3 scum is most likely

Dash, Qwints, and HD--there's your scum team.

[qwints]

HD, what do you think of what's going on?

[qwints]

RBD and HD maybe?

[qwints]

HD, you do realize that this just allows desp to self-hammer and prevent any more discussion of tells. I'm at a complete loss for why you wanted to prevent a quick lynch to mass claim but are pushing it now.

[qwints]

The whole point behind me pushing the quick lynch was to have scum be unsure about what to do night. Right now, because their action is forced, why not get more information out there?

Just to understand, you fought against the quick lynch I proposed because you thought YOLO or HD claiming a PR would be a scum slip?

[qwints]

HD, explain this read you gave on Desparado:

I'm not particularly sure.

[qwints]

By the way, RBD's 180 on desperado makes her obv-scum in case my reasons for it weren't clear. She thought he wasn't scum, and thought I was scum. My role claim shouldn't change that read enough to make her vote desperado like she did, i.e., it's an obvious bus.

[qwints]

Your reasoning is that the lack of another claimed PR besides Elyse's means that for you either I'm a town PR truthfully claiming or I'm 1 of 2 scum lying.

And even though you guessed that I was a cop with a guilty, you didn't just go along because if another person had claimed a PR, then you'd worry about a 3 scum scenario involving me.

And you had VT reads on HD and YOLO.

If all that's right,

1) Did you/do really have a town read on Desparado? If so, why?
2) Why have HD claim last?
3) Why wasn't Desparado's VT claim enough to stop the mass claim? (HINT: of the remaining 3 unclaimed players besides me, you had 1 as scum and 2 as Vanilla)

[qwints]

Its not like we can't discuss tomorrow anyway

It's exactly like the fact that 1 townie will probably not be around to discuss things tomorrow. Also, it might allow discussion before scum have a chance to plan for the current contingency. I'm sure you want to talk to your buddy about how to deal with the fact that your mislynch target for today happened to be the cop.

[qwints]

Anyway, I think we're done talking.

Why? We've got a lot of time, and the information I didn't want scum to have is already out there. The only more information that could hurt us tonight is a lying protective role getting outed, and I don't see that as a significant danger. At this point, why not try to get more information out there? There's the added bonus that scum don't have a chance to co-ordinate (unless they have daytalk, I guess, but that's uncommon in my experience).

We're certainly lynching Desperado, but I'd like Elyse and I to be able to do more for town before the day ends.

[qwints]

Are you expecting a tearful confession from another scum?

Hoping for a slip, and wanting Elyse and I to have as much input as possible before tonight.

[qwints]

Another reason RBD is scum, she soft pushes me.

The massclaim will not continue until everyone has weighed in on Despeardo's status.

Okay quints actually might be scum for this one.

Now he's already claimed VT. Unless there's a PR that can clear him or who can implicate someone else, I don't buy that a mass claim is going to give us a better suspect. If that's the case, then doing anything besides lynching Desperado is a bad idea.

I dont.

Last chance. If you dont claim in your next post my next post will have a vote for you.

When she was expecting my claim:

I actually was kinda thinking thats what qwints was going to claim but we definantly finish massclaim now.

And, according to her internal logic, the only 3 scum set-up involved me being town (since she thinks Flay is scum and HD/YOLO are vanilla)

Her play doesn't make sense as town. It does make sense as scum scrambling to account for the fact that her go-to mislynch me had something up their sleeve. I honestly believe no townie could reasonably believe desp was town and I was scum after yesterday's hammer, but she acted like she did even though it was the only plausible scenario that could lose the game for town today.

[qwints]

RBD, do you think I was wrong about Despardo being obv-scum w/o an investigation or do you think I was wrong to investigate him? It can't be both.

[qwints]

But since I was actually wrong about him being obv-scum (according to you), then the investigation was actually a good thing, right?

[qwints]

Not that it really matters, but my play was fundamentally about being risk adverse. There was a chance that Desparado was actually just being a VI. I also wasn't guaranteed to investigate someone who would be alive today. I certainly considered investigating Bub Bidderskins during D2 because his attack on me felt so forced and tunneling a townie to the exclusion of mislynch wagons is something I've seen scum do.

I'm just confused why you're trying to convince me, who you have as 80% town, that I should have been more confident in a read you disagreed with.

I also don't get why you would have risked losing the game with your Despardo vote if you thought it was likely that I was scum and Desp was town. Why were you so sure that if I was scum there were only 2 scum?

[qwints]

Becuase I was really confident that the entire setup was all VT + Elyse with two scum.

Why?

And do you think I was wrong to think Desparado was scum?

[qwints]

tbh you'd probably have been killed by now

For the breadcrumb? or what?

[qwints]

RBD, at what point did you start thinking I was a cop?

[qwints]

Desparado's initial attacks on me followed by that gives me the feeling he didn't know I was a doctor originally.

[qwints]

EBWOP - cop.

Well, I think the RBD discussion was helpful, but I agree that we're not likely to get much more. In the interests of keeping the game moving:

VOTE: Desperado

Good luck town!

[qwints]

Lol @ RBD having all 3 remaining townies in Lylo thinking she was scum. Also, did Flay really pass up an opportunity to hammer and win?