Mini 1454 - GAME OVER

[Kthxbye]

Hello! I'll be catchin up and posting by tomorrow night my thoughts thus far.

Anything anyone think I should pay special attention to while going through my read?

UNVOTE: notscience

for now.

[Kthxbye]

Fuzzy is town.
Bubba is town.
Jon is town.

Not is scum
Hp is scum
Aj is scum

All others are more or less null atm.

Basically, notscience looks like caught d1 scum to me. Back to L-1.

VOTE: notscience

[Kthxbye]

Lol, fuzzy isn't getting lynched today. He's town.

[Kthxbye]

Yeah, I've played with Jon before, this is how he was in that game and he's town too. See my town reads in may second post of this game and get your votes off those people as they are bad places to put your vote if you are town...

Then again, notscience isn't town so...carry on.

[Kthxbye]

notscience: Nobody Special, AngelInFreezer, kthxbye (3) <---the correct wagon
jon_h61: Aj The Epic, notscience, JuanJuan (3) <---the scum driven wagon

any questions?

[Kthxbye]

Sweet, when we lynch not and he flips scum, we have the start of a nice little town block and a good place to look at for more scum (see scum driven counter wagon).

[Kthxbye]

I'll give you a hint at not's scum buddy...coughajcough

[Kthxbye]

It's a counter wagon to the scum-not wagon...not rocket surgery.

[Kthxbye]

It's a counter wagon to the scum-not wagon...not rocket surgery.

Protecting your scummate?

you've used this one already.

[Kthxbye]

It's a counter wagon to the scum-not wagon...not rocket surgery.

Protecting your scummate?

you've used this one already.

And your point is? If it appears as such, I'm calling it as such.

If I were scumbuddies with Jon, now would be the perfect time to bus the shit out of him vice 'protect' him. That said, you already know we aren't scum since we aren't scum with you. At any rate, when was the last game you played where scum protected their scumbuddy on d1 as you rare claiming I am doing. If anything, I would expect a white knighting suspicion over a protecting a scum buddy accusation. Of course, you can't do that and continue to have your vote on the only wagon that could save you today. This is part of why I'm sure your scum.

The other part is how once you appeared to be the lynch, you became very uninvolved except to bitch about being lynched. Votes come off you and you start trying again. This behavior is indicative of a scum reaction more than a town reaction to being at L-1 on D1.

[Kthxbye]

Ftr, the rocket surgery comment was a purposeful combination of rocket science and brain surgery...

[Kthxbye]

Also, welcome to my town reads list amrun

[Kthxbye]

Aj, hp, notscience. Willing to vote any of those 3 today.

[Kthxbye]

I like that you're actually in the game this time, but you're just blowing smoke. I almost want to give you a Town read, but I just can't. Before you went full-on attack I asked you about it. You ignored my questions, then try to come on like this scum hunting god. Well, be ready to eat crow, because you're not as good as you think.

I wonder what scum would say to a question like: Aj, I hope your town this game.

This is pretty much exactly how scum would react....

In my only experience with AJ, he was town and in that game (the same one Jon refers to) he posted much less and was much less interested in that game than he is in this one. What's that mean? It means he's most likely scum in this one. Yay meta tells.

I'm betting I have at least 2scum in my list of 3 if not correct on all 3.

[Kthxbye]

Hey bubba, how does my having HP on my scum team list fit into your HP/KTB team?

[Kthxbye]

I'm still not liking HP's answers to anything. He said he's ok with a policy, and he's ok with joining random ass hell wagons. But he never joined the Amrun wagon, so I'm curious if he'll policy lynch AMrun now.

Why would there be a policy lynch on Amrun? Also, HP could easily be scum (As noted earlier) though I mostly find scum will not vote everywhere. Tunneling is a little more helpful to getting lynches for scum.

Ah, didn't remember that game with u in it. I was talking about dragons where I was on a hydra.

[Kthxbye]

Hey bubba, how does my having HP on my scum team list fit into your HP/KTB team?

You are the smarter side. Whereas Amrun tries to deny any of HP's "I know what buddying is" claims.

If he's on your scum list why aren't you voting him?

I'm currently on another scum member. Happy to switch of that's the way the wind blows though.

[Kthxbye]

the people who avoided the early Hooker wagon were jon_h61, Nobody Special, JuanJuan, AngelInFreezer (on not science) JKMatthews (on fuzzy) bubbajack8 (on Amrun) JKMatthews eventually joined the notscience wagon. Thus offsetting the votes between Hooker and not.

Avoiding it again? Do you think it's HP and notscience? Really? they both had a equally placed wagon. Until your person who you replaced changed that. They can't both be town and they definitely both can't be scum. Your logic is flawed and invalid.

Rvs wagons count not at all. When I came in, it was my slot ant not's who were opposing wagons. So yes, I think it's not, hp, and aj at this time.

[Kthxbye]

Not is my number 1, aj 2

[Kthxbye]

As said early who wants to bus D1? no one. And you avoided key wagons like Amruns'

...seriously?

How can you even say this? Of course they count.

No, they don't. It's RVS for a reason. When you try and use RVS votes as a reason to lynch someone, you're either an idiot or scum. Or maybe just ignorant. The 'R' in RVS stands for RANDOM. See how you cant count RVS votes?...seeing as they are random...

You really call these opposing wagons?

Your wagon was no where near not science's

whereas not and Hooker's were.

Until JK offset that.

You confirm my statement in the same post that you say they aren't opposing... You even quote the mod's vote count to prove my point for me! Opposing doesn't mean they have to be equal.

Your entire p497 is terrible and you should feel bad.

It received a facepalm for all 3 of your comments within it. Lucky for me, your comments aren't inherently scummy, just...uh...not well thought out. That's good because I have you as town. Try not to be so bad though.

[Kthxbye]

I'm not even going to try and argue with a brick wall because brick walls are inherently brainless and rtrying to argue these points are just going to clogg threadwiwith unhelpful shit. You should however know that:

-Bussing D1 is common
-RVS wagons are random and stupid to try and analyze
-Opposing wagons don't have to have the same number of votes (see definition of opposing)
-Not once did I claim that because not science and I were opposing wagons that it's somehow proof that he is scum (as that would be a retarded agreement...oh, that's what you're using...huh)
-HP and not science CAN in fact both be scum just as me and notscience could both be scum (see bussing and the fact we don't have any flips for info)
-Just because you're bad at MS doesn't mean I can't have a town read on you at this point though you are quickly changing that with trying to lynch people with illogical idiocy.

One thing you now need to do is explain how you are 100% about something on D1. Because if you're town, that is an impossibility.

[Kthxbye]

Either way, MS theory discussion should stop unless you want to use bubba's off the wall logic as a reason to build a case on him and push for his lynch.

Only thing that still needs discussed is the 100% comment.

Also, a second question I'd like answered by bubba:

Also it proves my point that both Hooker and not can't be town and they both can't be scum. If you want to use the argument they were dueling wagons then you and not can't both be town and you both can't be scum. Congratulations you proved my point that it is you and Hooker even more. <3

If you truly believe this, are you up for a notscience lynch in order to clear 2 people based on this should he flip scum? If not, why not?

[Kthxbye]

This is the point in the game I'd like to see someone at L-1.

VOTE: HP

To those who said they wanted to vote him, do so now plox.

[Kthxbye]

Jon, sometimes questions don't need to be answered bro...

[Kthxbye]

I'm pro at mafia. And mafia is a numbers game. There's a 2/13 chance that one of you or HP is scum. Well I guess 2/12 (since I'm not) making it 1/6. Plus there's a probable scum between HP and Not making a 1/10 (or so) chance greater then you that he is scum. It is a numbers game.

I'm 100% certain there's a scum between you and HP. And if I was mafia, you would follow that because "scum busses D1". Right?

I agree about string HP up, and when he flips scum this is going to bite you in the ass.

huh?

[Kthxbye]

HookerPunch: fuzzybutternut, bubbajack8, kthxbye, marcmann2, jon_h61, AJ (6)

L-1

Hammer for town cred

[Kthxbye]

Hp, it's all been said so I'm not going to repeat it.

I will add however, that 2 people have now claimed that should you flip scum, I will somehow be "in trouble" come tomorrow. This is just more indicative of you being scum and at least one of them knowing it.

[Kthxbye]

Oh, and you might want to claim soon....just saying.

[Kthxbye]

Oh, and confirm my aj scum read for p542.

Voting him tomorrow for sure.

[Kthxbye]

Before hp dies, I want to play a game of 'do you see what I see'. Who thinks they understand what I'm talking about in my previous post and what is it?

[Kthxbye]

Oh, and confirm my aj scum read for p542.

Voting him tomorrow for sure.

Canx this, not even I saw what I thought I saw...yeah, I made a mistake.

[Kthxbye]

It means I didn't see what I thought I saw that pretty much all but proved AJ was scum. So, he's not off my radar, but he's not more scummy for p542. My vote is on HP today anyway, we'll see about AJ tomorrow.

Speaking of which, AJ, can you link your last 2 completed games...town or scum....

[Kthxbye]

I'm pretty sure he's scum?

[Kthxbye]

There is a large tell for he that he gave off while at L-1 that makes me comfy with my vote. I'm not going to say what it is as its not 100% and I don't want scumtto not do the same later because I said what it is.

Also, just because there is a deadline, doesn't mean we have to wait till that day to lynch.

[Kthxbye]

The thing biting you in the ass is Post 481 "-Bussing D1 is common"

Don't give KthxBai credit for this wagon what the hell. I led this shit. Yet another attempt at buddying so you can semi-clear Kthx when you flip scum.

I'm pretty sure you know it. I never said I was 100 % on HP. I said I was 100% on a scum between you and HP. And the chances of HP being scum is higher.

'KTB and HP are scum together'
'KTB and HP are scum together'
'one of KTB and HP are scum and HP is more likely to be the scum'

Dude...make up your mind....

Also Kthx, you were voting not (i believe) and said AJ was your second scumspect. Why did you skip over voting AJ and go to HP?

AJ posted something that lessened my town read a tad between my p474 and p503. That and not's wagon was dying and I wanted to see my 3rd scum pick at L-1 to see how he'd react. Fairly simple and already said in my previous posts.

I'd go into theory at this point, but I'm sure you'd be at the complete opposite spectrum so I'll save my 'breath' and not clog up the thread.

Now, bubba, I will ask if you think HP and I are scum together.

[Kthxbye]

But scum don't want to bus D1...

I'm still not understanding. If you think I'm scum if hp is scum AND you think I'm scum if HP is not scum, then why are you voting HP before me? With your current opinions, it is ME who has the greater chance of flipping scum, not HP. Also, when the hell did amrun enter the picture?

There is no grasping, you just aren't making sense.

[Kthxbye]

Come on NS, I even asked for the claim...you'd better hope he's scum. That's all I'm saying.

[Kthxbye]

VOTE: NS

[Kthxbye]

2 things:

1: there shouldn't be Amy pressure votes on NS. They should all be votes to lynch as he should be today's lynch.

2: the reason for 1 is simple. There is absolutely zero town motivation for the actions/posts NS made yesterday. That means he's scum. It's simple. He posted jack squat for the entire day then claims he's ready for the day to end? On top of that, hammering without a claim is how scum take out PRs. It's not as if we collectively forgot he needed to claim. The claim was asked for. Had he claimed vt, I'd have still been fine with his lynch, but he never got to claim.

In summation, it's not that town was lynched and NS happened to be the hammer, but it's the way NS (who is more than experienced in MS) conducted business yesterday that makes him more likely scum than any other of my scum reads on the wagon.

NS: post reads before you die.

[Kthxbye]

I mean, I don't mind an NS lynch, but I feel he's more anti-town by nature, not scum. We're kinda screwed if we take a second town out.

Please explain why you think we are screwed if we mis-lynch on D2.

Also, yes NS is normally quiet on D1. That doesn't mean he makes plays like hammering an unclaimed person with plenty of time till deadline either. This isn't a noobie game and he isn't a noobie. Thus, making a play that SHOULD mean his lynch as a townie isn't something town him would do. Making that play as scum thinking he could talk his way out of being lynched is something I would expect scum him to try.

If NS isn't today's lynch, I will be very disappointed with the rest of he town.

Also, AJ's last post oozes AtF and pretty much solidifies that he's scum even if NS is somehow not.

[Kthxbye]

I'm thinking they are scumbuddies though. Soft bus followed by soft defense followed by AtF.

[Kthxbye]

I really don't think NS is scum. His hammer was too anti-town to be actual scum.

And this is the problem with townies lately. No, if you're town, you shouldn't do anti-town shit and just expect people to think ^that. Guess what, that sets up scum to do the exact same. 'His actions were way too scummy to be from scum' is just a fucking dumb way to think.

[Kthxbye]

Amrun, let me guess, NS's hammer wasn't scummy because it was too scummy to be scum? If not, explain how his play yesterday is pro town exactly.

[Kthxbye]

My vote isn't coming off NS till he's dead.

[Kthxbye]

Yeah, because you're not scumhunting. I get it.

Obviously you do not in fact "get it"

[Kthxbye]

Ffs, it's called a preview button...

[Kthxbye]

NS might be a close second.

I must be the worst MS player ever because this doesn't make sense to me. I don't see how anyone, after reading NS's limited posts, has NS as a close second for most sure town read. Please explain how he's town without using meta. If you must use meta, please post links to town games where he behaves this way as taking your word for it isn't going to cut it.

That said, AJ is scum as well, so we at least agree on that....well, that and Bubba being town.

[Kthxbye]

If we don't lynch NS, I can be down for an Amrun lynch. His position on NS alone is enough to make me think they are scum mates.

[Kthxbye]

Everyone is willing to lynch him, so we can't get much information on him.

False...so very false...

[Kthxbye]

NS: how bout some reads and reasons.

[Kthxbye]

NS isn't dead yet...zzzzz

[Kthxbye]

Hmmm..I'm thinking the bubba vs amrun might be tvt now. It seems scum is ok with keeping silent while they duke it out and clog the thread.

What are your thoughts on this possibility amrun and bubba?

[Kthxbye]

gets better

[Kthxbye]

I just want a lynch. Oooh, so scummy of me.

[Kthxbye]

It's pretty clear that both bubba and amrun are both town or on opposite sides.

[Kthxbye]

Bubba, if you got to lead town in a lynch, who's number 1 on your list?

[Kthxbye]

AJ L-1 engaged!

VOTE: AJ

Obviously you noobs are too thick to lynch scum-NS this early.

[Kthxbye]

...

well, that's a lynch then.

[Kthxbye]

2 things:

Scratch my solid town read on bubba (thought he alluded to being the doc) and AJ's death was good but provides very little info in the way of vca.

So, let's look are those off the wagon who desired to not be a part of his lynch.

Gif, bubba, Jon and Juan. Betting at least 1 scum wasn't a part of the wagon and as it wasn't a bus, it's possible 2 scum were off. This be a good place to start.

VOTE: bubba

[Kthxbye]

Bubba, why is your amrun read out the window exactly?

[Kthxbye]

I will most certainly answer questions....patience please.

[Kthxbye]

I thought it was fuzzy and Amrun, although it could be Amrun and you, or Amrun and notscience.

But I still think you are scum. And hell my 100% can't be that bad..

And THIS is why I'm voting bubba....

We lynched a SK... That means scum were totally fine with killing him as they didn't know he wasn't town. That means bubba's reverse in his read of Amrun is completely out of left field

[Kthxbye]

KTB, please quote where you thought bubba alluded to being the doc.

Because of his p52 "lol. Lynching doc is a pretty terribad move (;"

[Kthxbye]

However, why the sudden taking your vote off of NS, when you said you'd be on him until he was lynched?

NS isn't off the table. The fact that a wagon on him would have been easy for scum to jump on yet nobody really did jump on it makes him look more scum than town. That said, bubba reversing his top scum read from the lynch of an SK is much more scummy.

[Kthxbye]

Almost only counts in horseshoes and handgrenades.

^yet another reason NS is most certainly not off my scum list

on the flip side, if I was ever doubtful about Amrun, I'm not any longer.

[Kthxbye]

Bubba: I'm voting you because the lynch tells us little info yet you completely flipped you read on amrun. You claim you thought it was amrun based on thinking fuzzy was scum yet I don't see where you used that reasoning yesterday. Basically, just because fuzzy was town shouldnt be making you flip your scum read when your were calling amrun scum all day yesterday not because you thought fuzzy was scum and you were looking for fuzzy partners, but because you thought amrun was scum and you thought fuzzy might be his partner.

Your complete turn around on amrun makes no sense as paranoid town with the info that is available.

As for not doubting amrun, it's that I don't doubt he's town...

[Kthxbye]

Oooh....we have a race between me and bubba. 3 votes each. I like how 2 of the people of the 4 I suggested we look into today are on my wagon already. Could be coincidence.....

[Kthxbye]

To clear the hammer thing, I post from my shitty phone more often than from a computer. If you know anything about phone posting, find a better reason to vote me than post-edit BS.

[Kthxbye]

Also, I still would have hammered aj, the only difference is I would have asked for a claim first. Tbh, I'm glad it worked out the way it did as we would have gotten a vig claim and been fucked for awhile so...

[Kthxbye]

Even though it was the right move, why are you now doing what I say?

What was the right move?

[Kthxbye]

Too early for a town block?

[Kthxbye]

Trying to decide if bubba is scum or VI....

[Kthxbye]

Sigh, if you say so gif.

UNVOTE:

[Kthxbye]

Not, let's say you're town as you claim. What benefit does gif get as scum that leads him to post p920? What do you see happening tomorrow if p920 comes true and you're town?

[Kthxbye]

Gif, what do you think about his NOT vote with not being your scum pick? Bus possibly or just not sure?

[Kthxbye]

Him being jon

[Kthxbye]

Not science, you are either trying to beat bubba to be the biggest VI in the game or you're scum. Look over your posts, would town you not be voting the shit outs those posts?

[Kthxbye]

Have any scum games? Sorry if I missed it somewhere.

[Kthxbye]

It's a mini and we killed an SK. Guessing 2 scum left.

Bubba is...just wow. Can't tell if VI or scum now. So much this in regards to bubba:

Your reads are no longer coming off as genuine to me. You look like you're scrambling for a mislynch.

That said, not, you should claim before you are hammered.

THIS MEANS IF YOU INTEND TO HAMMER AND THEN HAMMER WITHOUT STATING INTENT AND ASKING FOR HIM TO CLAIM, I WILL INSTA VOTE YOU TOMORROW IF YOU HAMMER BEFORE A CLAIM.

That said, I do not claim intent to hammer at this time, so I'm not asking for a claim.
___________________________________________

Lastly, I find it odd that this post:

Since we're not too close to a lynch I want to shift my focus a bit.

Vote JuanJuan

Isn't being more scrutinized. Saying we aren't close to a lynch when one vote put's not at L-1 is just not sitting well.

If not is scum, this post makes me think marc is buddy. It's even more a tell due to scum probably only being a duo and losing a buddy this early is pretty much game over for scum. So yeah, if I was scum-marc, and not was my scum-buddy, I'd feel the need to post something like this to try and save him without coming right out and defending him and calling him town.

[Kthxbye]

And even IF you are a ml what the fuck does it matter.

3 scum.

6-3

ML

5-3

Kill

4-3.

2 Scum.

7-2

ML

6-2

Kill

5-2

Why are you so worried about being lynched. As town you should SHOW you are town. Not just say you are a ml. -_-

This is the worst fucking logic coming from someone claiming to be town...

[Kthxbye]

Not: who are the remaining scum?

You've hinted at being a PR enough that you may as well claim. In before 'omg role fishing', if I were scum, I'd kill you tonight for soft claiming a PR anyway. Might as well claim and tell us what you know.

[Kthxbye]

Even without the other claim you saying you voted AJ because you jk'd him night one is beyond ridiculous and fake.

VOTE: notscience

[Kthxbye]

Juan, of course you're ready to hammer, your scum buddy just lynched you with his n2 claim of targeting you.

[Kthxbye]

Too easy

VOTE: marcmann2

[Kthxbye]

I suppose if y'all would like logical reasoning to follow me onto MM2, here ya go:

Spoiler:

Special Note: I put myself in green and GIF in green. I know I'm town and GIF is the reason we lynched not....(mostly). Could it be a gambit by scum GIF, maybe, but I don't think so at this time due to VCA. Only way GIF is scum is if he decided to bus the shit out of notscience from the get-go. The only thing that has me worried is that he didn't die last night.../shrug

notscience

: jon_h61, Nobody Special, JuanJuan,

GuyInFreezer

(4)

HookerPunch

:

Amrun

, marcmann2,

Aj The Epic

,

notscience

(4)

Here is known town as the opposing wagon to known scum. MM2 is on it.

notscience

: jon_h61, Nobody Special, JuanJuan,

GuyInFreezer

,

Kthxbye

(5)

HookerPunch

:

Amrun

, marcmann2,

Aj The Epic

,

notscience

(4)

Here is more of the same, my slot votes known scum to break the tie (this was my predecessor's vote).

notscience

: jon_h61, Nobody Special, JuanJuan,

GuyInFreezer

,

Kthxbye

,

fuzzybutternut

(6)

Kthxbye

:

Amrun

,

Hoopla

,

Aj The Epic

, marcmann2 (4)

Oh no! Known scum is L-1! Look at that, a different opposing wagon forms on town to prevent a D1 scum lynch. Uh oh, look who's on it...yup, MM2. Note that no other scum is here.

notscience

: jon_h61, Nobody Special, JuanJuan,

GuyInFreezer

,

fuzzybutternut

,

Kthxbye

(6)

Kthxbye

:

Amrun

,

Aj The Epic

, marcmann2 (3)

More of the same.

notscience

: Nobody Special,

GuyInFreezer

,

Kthxbye

(3)
jon_h61:

Aj The Epic

,

notscience

, JuanJuan (3)

Look, another opposing wagon to known scum. jon in on the race this time. This has me putting jon (who is unknown) in the town category.

notscience

: Nobody Special,

GuyInFreezer

,

Kthxbye

, jon_h61 (4)
jon_h61:

Aj The Epic

,

notscience

, JuanJuan (3)

jon joins the known scum wagon to break the tie. It's weaker in the fact that his is opposing wagon, but still.

HookerPunch

:

fuzzybutternut

, bubbajack8,

Kthxbye

, marcmann2, jon_h61,

Aj The Epic

, Nobody Special (7 - LYNCH)
JuanJuan:

Hoopla

(1)
jon_h61:

notscience

(1)

notscience

:

GuyInFreezer

(1)

Aj The Epic

:

Amrun

(1)

Not Voting:

HookerPunch

, JuanJuan

And finally, scum get their way and don't get their scum buddy lynched on D1. Look who's on the wagon. Yup, MM2. D1 VCA also allows me to give jon, NS, and Juan a pass today.

D2 is hard to analyze because to scum, AJ might as well have been town and notscience wasn't a huge wagon factor against the AJ lynch.

D3 further gives town cred to GuyInFreezer, jon_h61, Nobody Special, and bubbajack8 because chances are that scum know they are only 2. We know this is probable now as well due to the SK flip. The only two people with unknown alignments not voting scum yesterday were Juan and you guessed it, MM2.

I think the smart move is to lynch MM2 today and perhaps Juan tomorrow. One thing concerns me though. Seeing as Amrun, MM2, and Juan were the only people not on the scum lynch yesterday makes me wonder why Amrun was targeted. I'm not going to dismiss the possibility that notscience was ran over by a bus this entire game. That should work itself out shortly though and before Lylo/Mylo as if GIF is alive past tonight, the remaining scum is taking a HUUUUUGE risk in hoping he doesn't target them or GIF is in fact scum who played a very ballsy gambit. I digress. First things first today. Join the logic wagon folks and see where we end up. Oh, and if there is any info that hints at someone being scum due to a PR, now would be the time to claim said PR and give us the info as there is probably (like 95% probable) only one scum in the way of victory.

[Kthxbye]

VCA's don't lie and AJ wasn't scum last I checked. In fact, the one post that draws my eye the most that you include AJ and notscience together doesn't mean shit actually. It looks like you threw 2 players in with your scum buddy so you could say what you just said in p1039. 'I can't be scum, look, notscience has been in my scum list....after I called him town of course....' Also, you couldn't have actually been "completely for notscience's lynch" when you DIDN'T even vote him a single time this whole game! Your money and mouth were nowhere near each other.

[Kthxbye]

@KTB the AMrun targeting is pretty obvious.

How was this obvious? Was there some hint that Amrun was a nurse that I didn't get the memo on?

[Kthxbye]

@ GiF I'd like to hear what your PR is, I know you've visited someone who wasn't Not. With you outing yourself yesterday, you should have no problem explaining your actions. Town needs your info today before you're NKd. That is If you are Town.

I'll look into other scum after I hear from GiF.

UNVOTE:

Wait, what? jon, you need to get in here and explain yourself. First of all, if you know GiF visited someone who wasn't Not no matter what day it was, then you should be voting the shit out of him...yet you aren't. Your post also indicates you really have no clue what's going on with this game thus far as GiF ALREADY told us his claimed PR.

Claim: Even-Night Tracker

YOU VISITED NO ONE AT NIGHT 2

So, you are either a town PR (which you now need to claim) that caught GiF in a scummy lie, or you are scum who just royally screwed up a fake claim.

___________________________

Well, there goes my VCA logic...right out the fuckin window. Either Jon or GiF are scum and most likely the last remaining scum.

___________________________

GiF, why aren't you voting jon right now? He's claiming you are lying about your PR. Granted, he did it in a way that is very very weird, but he's still saying you lied and are now busted (again, in a round about manner). I honestly can't figure out why the 2 of you aren't voting each other.

___________________________

As it doesn't really matter too much which of you goes first (a town flip would mean the others death tomorrow), I'll wait for jon to specify what he's talking about and for both of you to answer why you aren't voting the other as it makes no sense....

[Kthxbye]

due to the SK and it being a mini. 4v9 isn't normal and I've personally never been in a mini that's not 3v10 whether that 3 be all scum or 2 scum and another anti-town.

^reply to GiF

[Kthxbye]

hrm....well, we'll see once we lynch another scum. You could be right, but just the presence of an SK means a possible 2 kills per night...so town would need the back-up doc. That and town PR's can overlap and cause mislynches as well. So I'm gonna stick to one scum left until it's apparent that there is another. Shouldn't affect our lynch desires though as whether there be 1 or 2 left, we still want to lynch scum.

That said, it's pretty apparent that either you or Jon are lying about something and I can only think of a few reasons as to why that would be from your end. bubba opened his big mouth and gave you one. I want to see what Jon's claim and night results are before anything else.....this could take awhile....

[Kthxbye]

Yeah, not voting gif. ^not something scum warns town about. Even if he was scum and knew he was the last, he wouldnt post the above.

[Kthxbye]

Wow, in 4 posts you look townier than JJ did the whole game.

[Kthxbye]

@ GiF I know where you went Day 1, and I have them as a Town read. Since they are still around it makes me convinced you're Town too.

For me, this isn't going to cut it.

jon: GiF claimed to be an even night PR. If he visited someone N1, how can you say he's town?

GiF: Are you even night only or not? Did you visit someone N1?

[Kthxbye]

I need to go back and check some things.

Done yet?

[Kthxbye]

I'm not cleared because gif visited me btw. Not was alive and we don't know if he submitted the kill N1 I know I'm cleared because of role pm but y'all don't knoe that.

[Kthxbye]

Nope, one scum does the actual kill. For instance, if there are 3 scum (A, B, and C), they talk at night and decide on who to kill and who does the killing. Usually, the person with the least suspicion will kill because town could have any number of roles to see who visits who at night. So if A submits the kill and a town tracker targets B, B appears to have done nothing yet he's still scum and there was still a kill because A was the person who killed. Conversely, if the tracker targets A, the tracker see's A visit (kill) that nights death and knows A is scum but is still clueless on who B and C are. Make sense?

That said, if there are indeed only 2 scum left, mm2's p1096 explains why I COULD be cleared. Of course, you have to buy into AJ being blocked N1 and not him simply choosing not to kill. I personally don't kill N1 if I'm an SK to keep everyone in the dark about there being one.

I don't mean to keep pointing out the flaws in the logic of those trying to call me cleared, but we need to cover these things as to not miss other things.

[Kthxbye]

Yeah, no. I read through my VCA again and yup, it's sound logic.

VOTE: MM2

That's L-1, might want to claim now.

[Kthxbye]

marcmann2: bubbajack8, GiF, KTB (3)

4 to lynch

[Kthxbye]

UNVOTE: <----def not provable but we have some PR's that might be able to clear you maybe.

for NS and to be scum, he would have had to ride not's wagon all the way to L-1 and down again before finally hammering HP. bubba on the other hand wasn't anywhere near either of not's or the other town wagons all day and ended up on the ML.

Logic tells me that at least 1 scum (I'm assuming last at this time) was on the D1 mislynch.

I may be swayed into letting you live yet. MAYBE.

Is an MC in order at this point in the game? We already have jon and GiF outed. If MM2 is truthful, that might be the end of them anyway.

Let's see if GiF or jon have anything to back up mm2's claim.

My VCA is still sound, but seeing as bubba doesn't show up on the VCA till the end, I'm going to pause my rush to lynch MM2 and consider it.

[Kthxbye]

Well, that answers that.

My VCA is still solid I think. If game's not over, I'll look into bubba tomorrow.

As far as Night actions go in the event MM2 flips town, my suggestion would be for Jon to watch GiF and GiF to track whoever he thinks is scummiest and most likely to be remaining scum out of bubba, NS, and Juan. I think bubba is probably the best choice, but as long as jon watches GiF, GiF should live through the night and either have someone cleared or picked correctly and tracked scum. Or scum thinks not killing is in their best interest and let's town win/lose the game through lynches.

The reason I kinda want a MC at this point is because the one mafia member that has flipped, flipped powerless. We have 2 PR's that have flipped and 3 claimed PR's alive. That's 5 town PR's vs 1 SK and 1 scum PR? Something is off with the balance of claimed power if MM2 flips town. Hell, if MM2 does flip town PR, then add jon to your list of those you might want to track GiF.

So yeah, I'm thinking a MC isn't going to hurt as I think all the unclaimed will claim VT. If not, we have some problems (as in more than 1 scum left).

GiF: Tracker
jon: Watcher
MM2: 2 Shot Commuter
KTB: VT
bubba: ??
NS: ??
DV: ??

Yeah, I want this MC the more I think about it. It only gives us more info to go on today ESPECIALLY if someone else claims a PR and has info from that PR they can share.

[Kthxbye]

Not tomorrow, today. With 5 claimed/known PR's already out, MC benefits us most today.

[Kthxbye]

Not tomorrow, today. With 5 claimed/known PR's already out, MC benefits us most today.

Why do you want everybody out so bad?

Holy shit bubba, you even fucking quoted the reason in the post with this stupid fucking question. Use some logic.

This whole path bubba has been on does not sit well with me. Attempting to look active without actually doing anything is not town play.

[Kthxbye]

ok bubba, let me try to spell this out even MORE for the simple minded.

we had an SK flip (not a PR really, but a role that would have town PR's buffed up a little more than just a 3 scum team)
we had a scum flip (this scum was NOT a PR, so unless there is 2 scum left, town currently is slightly over balanced but believable)
town has had 2 PR's flip
town has 3 current claimed PR's alive
math isn't adding up
I want to know if there is anyone out of you 3 that is going to also claim a PR
currently, although slightly imbalanced, I'm debating on giving the claimed PR's a pass for today
that said, if someone ELSE claims a PR, scum is likely hiding in the PR claims due to balance
how the fuck do you not get this so badly that you made me spell this out so blatantly that if scum is in the unclaimed group, they aren't going to try a PR claim...probably...
go play some more newbie games

[Kthxbye]

more of the spelling out of things for bubba.

1. Doc
2. Nurse
3. Tracker
4. Watcher
5. 2 shot commuter

Holy shitballs, is that 5 total known/claimed PR's right there?!?! Well I'll be...not the dumbest guy in the room.

But ya know what? Fuck it, don't claim. I'm 99% sure everyone who is unclaimed is VT or possibly scum anyway. If you were anything else, you'd have claimed in order to give town more info for today's lynch anyway. If whoever we lynch today isn't scum or days not over, it's only a matter of time for the watcher/tracker to catch them.

[Kthxbye]

That doesn't explain KTB falling off your wagon though now does it.

You'd rather quick lynch a claimed PR? Yet you don't want anyone MC cuz PR's are precious? Which is it bubba?

[Kthxbye]

Also, if there is a remaining PR that can clear people and explain how, they should clear that person...duh.

[Kthxbye]

Sigh, so what. So fucking what. If someone else claims a PR, then it's between that person and MM2 to lynch today. This is because 6 town PR's against what we've already seen flip is grossly over powered and someone is lying. So bubba, do you have a PR you'd like to claim?

And to answer your question (again), he claimed a PR, that's why I'm not all gun-ho on lynching him right this second. <---said multiple times different ways.

[Kthxbye]

Tracker watcher AND cop? Hmmm

[Kthxbye]

Yeah, bubba is prolly legit. I'm also guessing the sk had invest immune.

Thus my vca stands. Add in that bubba is correct that a commuter doesn't make sense with 2 protect roles and....

VOTE: mm2

[Kthxbye]

That's the hammer btw. IF, and that's a big if, mm2 flips town, NS is prob scum.

[Kthxbye]

Bubba, you do realize how stupid it is to think I'm scum right? Although AJ doesn't count, I've been on AND PUSHED FOR every anti town lynch. Personally though, I think this should be GG. If not...cross that bridge with more info tomorrow.

[Kthxbye]

Bubba and GIF, you'd better have caught scum.

Vca is worthless. Either scum was on the ML or scum is DV.

[Kthxbye]

Gif, who did you target?

[Kthxbye]

I'm not ready to call gif confirmed yet, but bubba's play here is dumb as scum so he's confirmed imo.

NS and DV claim in your next post.

[Kthxbye]

I imagine we'll never get that result.

That said, game SHOULD be over with a scum lynch and you have a guilty. My only worry is that you got an inno on AJ and barring him having investigation immunity and that not being part of the flip, you could be being manipulated. If that is the case, then I personally think GIF would be the last scum over DV or you. GIF claims being RB'ed and throws you a guilty on your investigation being fairly confident that you wont investigate him. I may just be overly paranoid though....

So, with that said

VOTE: NS L-1

[Kthxbye]

UNVOTE:

Something isn't sitting right...

[Kthxbye]

I want to hear what NS says and I want a DV claim and post.

[Kthxbye]

KTB: what doesn't sit right?

Yeah, never mind. Wasn't sure what to make of NS requesting us not lynch him till he got a chance to post. Why put it the time as scum with a guilty on your head. Then...a big fat nothing.

VOTE: NS

[Kthxbye]

look, here's the deal. If NS flips town there are 2 options I see:

Either GiF is a scum PR that can redirect

OR

bubba is an RB planning on playing the redirect card after today's mis-lynch and GiF's death

Either way, as much as DV is off his rocker, he's not scum if NS flips town.

[Kthxbye]

or

game over.

I said if NS flips town....

[Kthxbye]

And kthx, how am I off my rocker?

You are proposing I'm scum...thus insane.

[Kthxbye]

If there are 4 scum AND an SK, I'm none too happy.

[Kthxbye]

Then again GiF, why would AJ throw N64 (mafia RB) under the bus out the gate if they didn't have some more power.

p.edit: I meant 3...

[Kthxbye]

GiF are you claiming targeting me or DV?

[Kthxbye]

Now why would you go and say something like that? I was literally going to vote DV this post, but not being rb'ed after not killing a role blocker...? Fuck all, what do I do with that?

[Kthxbye]

In my personal experience, MODs let the last scum perform any PR action on top of the NK...

[Kthxbye]

Fuck it.

-You were on notscience till he was dead.
-You were one of the main reasons people finally joined the notscience lynch.
-VCA that I have done makes me think scum weren't dumb enough to put all their eggs on one mis-lynch, which would have happened on D4 if you were scum.....nor do I think they both would have bussed notscience, which if you were scum, would have happened in VCs 1.8 - 1.16 then again in 3.5 - 3.6.
-You claimed to not be RB'ed when it would have been easier and made more sense to say nothing or claim you were RB'ed. This is the weakest point though as if you were to claim to be RB'ed, you wouldn't come out the gate with a vote.

AJ flipped anti-town (SK) but a confirmed macho cop got an innocent on him which makes me think that we aren't getting all the info from the flips tbh. Only way AJ comes back with an innocent is with a investigative immunity which obviously wasn't listed. This leads my mind to think that the scum that flipped may not have been regular goons with no powers. We may have hit the RB with the NS lynch.

The only pause I have in doing this is that if you decided to be the busser from the get go to win the game in the end for scum, all your actions makes sense as scum.

So yeah, if you're scum, I'm sorry to the rest of town, but very well played sir.

VOTE: ....

ARG!!!! I can't yet, I just can't. This goes against every impulsive bone in my body (which is all of them). I want to hear from DV first at least and want to hear the MODs response.

[Kthxbye]

MOD: same question asked slightly different. In your game(s), IF their is only one scum left and that scum were to have a PR, would said scum be able to use the PR and NK....hypothetically.

[Kthxbye]

What I ask is that you don't assume I'm scum, and that if you do think I am, let me make my best attempt to convince you otherwise.

Alright, but know I don't want to drag this out. Make the case on GiF and give your reasons to why all his town play could be scum motivated. If I have questions, I'll ask. Just know it looks bleak for you at this time. So if you don't want to put in a shit ton of time for likely nothing, just admit you're scum if you're scum and we can say good game...up yo you.

Note: I may be power tripping right now seeing as I'm the only confirmed awesome left in the game.

p.edit: MOD, I'm disappointed....

[Kthxbye]

Yeah, I just can't go against my gut and my logic. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong.

GG guys, whoever wins.

VOTE: DV

[Kthxbye]

Just so you know DV, I was very close to changing my mind and voting GiF. You brought up some decent points. When I went back through though, I really didn't see how you "tried to 'save' NS so hard." I saw you call him town a couple times, but other than that... I will say town is stacked if all scum got was an RB. That said, it was 9 vs 3 vs 1....town should be stacked in that case. I dunno, hope I made the right choice.

So yeah, whichever of you are scum, you both looked pretty town in the end. GiF more so though. /shrug

[Kthxbye]

GiF, you saying you are what you claim then?

[Kthxbye]

If GiF is truly town (yay, we'll know soon), then my money is on my suspicions that the flips didn't give us all the info and that the 'goons' that flipped had PR's attached to them. With that in mind, I'm guessing I was also right about us hitting the RB with the NS lynch.

[Kthxbye]

Woot! Confirmation that I'm not complete shit at this game!

[Kthxbye]

Firstly, I hate you GiF.
Secondly, sorry I didn't listen DV.
Thirdly, sorry to let ya down town.
Finally, GG GiF, I still hate you.

[Kthxbye]

Yeah, looking back I want to restate my hammer post.

Should have went 'going with gut over logic'. I wasn't thinking clearly. I should have known that my initial thought when GiF claimed to have a result from last night on DV was correct in thinking that GiF was scum and screwed up by not claiming he was RB'ed. During my read during night phase, I even told myself that if he said he wasn't RB'ed he was scum fake claiming. I forgot I told myself that and fucked up. That was the logic part. In hindsight, I'm a complete moron.

[Kthxbye]

Yeah GiF, the bussing was what made me go with gut over logic....I still hate you.

DV: I wish you had been in the game from the start. A large part of the reason I had a hard time believing you was due to Juan's play.