Mini Normal 1460 - Normalville Mafia (GAME OVER)

[Baezu]

Hi!

VOTE: thegooner

scum is in your name!

[Baezu]

What is your favourite alignment and why?
What is your favourite role and why?

I don't have a favorite alignment. I think each role can have its nuances and strategies and I enjoy discovering them as I play. I enjoy the variety and how no game is ever the same.

My favorite role is cop because they win with the town but they have access to more information. When you play cop you have to analyze everyone's plays to try and figure out other town PRs as well as mafia and to know who to investigate at night.

[Baezu]

First impressions: BP/Grimgroove scum team. Consider yourselves FoS'd. It would be cool if this would actually turn out to be a crumb later on in the game

[Baezu]

I think Slandaar's town. Questions don't intimidate me and I agree that it causes conversations.

[Baezu]

Gut feeling from the way he answered the question:

Innocent Child. It makes things less complicated.

Also, this comment came with BP's second vote (he had previously rvs'd future) so if his logic applies to peregrine he is just as blood thirsty:

Voted for two people in one post only! No one wants blood like a scum!!

Again, gut feeling but I really didn't like any of his posts on p1

[Baezu]

Better put my vote in a more useful place

VOTE: BP

[Baezu]

Alright, I seem to have to explain myself at the moment. I really thought you'd see my posts as they were: RVS taunts. That's why I voted for random people, for random reasons. Just like everyone else.

Also, I voted no lynch because I don't believe in Day 1 lynches. Don't make much sense to me. I'm more much more keen on analyzing Night 1's kill choice that trying to see through people's reasons and motives behind every vote on Day 1, which are mostly based on RVS reactions and bandwagoning, so...

Just because I voted no lynch doesn't mean that I'm necessarily new to the game, FYI.

How is this not the scummiest thing you've ever heard? A mislynch on d1 is WAY better than a NL because at least that gives information (ie who was on the bw, whose loyalties are where, etc.)! Also, we actually have a chance of lynching mafia d1 WHICH IS THE POINT OF THE GAME!!! We need to lynch this now!

[Baezu]

@ grim - so first you're convinced I'm town and you want to prove me wrong:

Baezu is town. Only town is so eager to put out scumreads this early in the game, half expecting/hoping they would be right in order to boast with them at the end of the game.
However, Baezu is wrong and will not be boasting for at least 50% of her early reads.

Then you think I'm scum for jumping on easy bait:

The way Baezu jumps on this "easy" bait I find scummier than publicly daring to take a stance you'll know very few people will agree with.

Also, you've been defending BP

Did you notice his join date under the avatar?

This join date leads me to believe he knows what he's doing through defending this No D1-lynch business. I haven't been in many games myself so far on this site, but in each and every one of them the general agreement was the thing that Baezu was explaining, and everyone disagreeing came under heavy scrutiny. I'll have to do a meta on BP but something tells me he knew he'd be getting reactions t§o this no-lynch-vote along the lines of the reactions he's getting now.

I'm even more sure of my initial assessment: BP/GRIMGROOVE = scum team!!!

[Baezu]

- If you want reactions to see the smoke comin' out of the scumhole, why lynch me right away? Why not wait a little longer, say two weeks?
- Do you think mafia loyalties would be made explicit by them in day 1 in such a way as to tell us who's who? If not, do you still think a mislynch is better that a no-lynch?

1. Initially it was an RVS but the longer it's progressed the more I'm convinced my hunch was right. Why would we need to wait to lynch you? You're being overly defensive, you're not scumhunting and you're not really helping town. I don't see any problem with lynching you early.

2. I stand by my belief that a ML is better than a NL regardless of how long it's been like I said before bc of bw, convos, etc.

[Baezu]

Oh, Chernobyl are you on the scum team too? Too too bad...I liked your name...

[Baezu]

In post 23, Baezu wrote:
It would be cool if this would actually turn out to be a crumb later on in the game

What is the purpose of this?

I was making fun of myself by finding it amusing that a hunch guess might actually turn out to be correct There really was no purpose in it...sorry.

[Baezu]

you sure are a hellova player if you already have 2 scums there, on page 3 and barely two days of posting.

Thank you!

Those are my most intuitive possible scum-tells.

Do you have any evidence for this intuition?

[Baezu]

VOTE: Gooner

why?

[Baezu]

BP I am no afraid and I'm not going to get lynched. Sorry that my confidence intimidates you but a lot of my logic is not superficial - it comes from what the rules say are classic scum tells. I know they are not ALWAYS scum tells but the more your play progresses "by the book", the more probabilistic that you are scum. Nothing personal.

[Baezu]

I'll have more to say about future once I hear his response to your questions. On the surface I don't feel like the evidence is undeniable - it's more "gut"ly. I'll have to hear more in order to make up my mind.

[Baezu]

Ok. I'm starting to agree with people on the future case. Still think BP is scummier so I'm keeping my vote on him for now. I would be willing to hammer future if it comes to that.

FoS future

[Baezu]

You guys need to listen to Slandaar. I am TOWN. I swear to you. The reason that I want to lynch BP is because he just seems to me to REEK of scum so why not continue to try to push for someone that I feel is scum? That is also the reason I was not willing to move my vote. But, since people obviously cannot be convinced by my words I will just have to wait for the mafia to NK me n1 to show you my role PM. Maybe there is a doctor out there who is willing to protect me because as I said before, I am TOWN. Also, when I get killed will you please vote for BP. That is my dying wish. For now, I will vote with those who are more experienced and take their word that future is indeed scum. Hopefully you guys are right.

VOTE: Future

[Baezu]

@Elyse I just feel like scum will want to nk me because I've been causing a lot of ripples in the water and making accusations. Creating controversy is usually something scum wants to quiet. I know it may be early to use caps, but I wanted to emphasize the fact that I am indeed town. I'm not really worried about a lynch but I don't think people have to wait until they're at L-1 to make a case for their alignment. I want it to be clear to everyone that their votes need to be elsewhere. The fact that future's vote is on me is prob indicative that he is indeed scum. I'm not going to apologize for being eager in this game. It's because I know I'm town and I'm doing my best to ensure that votes go where they need to go.

[Baezu]

In post 61, thegooner wrote:
My vote for Elyse was because I didn't realize the RVS had ended.

Preemptive Defence; Worried about how his random vote will be perceived; if you are town why worry as you have done nothing wrong.

His Grim vote is just arguing about theory which isn't legit scumhunting and that is all hes talked about.

Also; I voted him he posted 2 seconds later and he didn't bat an eyelid.

I agree with your case on gooner. DO you think he's the scummiest person out there right now?

[Baezu]

What are your reads on others, Slandaar?

[Baezu]

@ slandaar you didn't answer mine either. I didn't vote for gooner because I felt the case against future was stronger.

[Baezu]

@BP yes. Currently I feel future us scummier than you. That's why I changed my vote over to him. Why do I feel he's scummier than the gooner? Because of the fact that his only defense is an ongoing game and he has nothing else to say for himself.

[Baezu]

Hi nacho!

[Baezu]

Personally I wasn't so comfortable with Slandaar putting future at L-1 so quickly after nacho's vote. It may be nothing but if future flips town....

[Baezu]

@grim so far my impression of Slandaar has been town all the way. If future flips town, I would feel much more like Slandaar might be scum. Also, I still think a future flip would give us more information.

@BP your unvote seems really suspicious, especially since Grim was saying future should be hammered not 10 minutes prior. Why don't you want us to see future's flip? Man, I really want to believe you're town but everything you do just leads me to think you're scum!

At this point I think future needs to be hammered as well - for better or worse.

[Baezu]

@CCB To clarify: I was not uncomfortable with future being at L-1 I was uncomfortable with Slandaar's vote. Why don't you want anyone to hammer? Future is not responding anymore, much less claiming. If he's not helping the game in any way he's better off being lynched.

[Baezu]

I think we would ALL like him to say something, BP, but how long are you willing to wait?

[Baezu]

If future flips scum I'm not worried about Slandaar but if he doesn't I will reevaluate my reads on him. He reads null-town to me. That action of his was scummy. It may be nothing but only a flip will tell. Do you not feel that a person can question their reads on someone based on certain actions?

[Baezu]

Let's just hammer him and see instead of all this WIFOM. And if I survive the nk we can talk about who's actually scummy tomorrow.

[Baezu]

Maybe not but it's conjecture- IF future flips one way then... we can talk about facts once we see the flip.

[Baezu]

I'm thinking that future posting and then disappearing once he realized he was at L-1, combined with all of the other facts makes that slot scum. Him disappearing when he did only reinforces that read.

[Baezu]

@ slandaar why did you jump on the future wagon so quickly, esp if you were not sure he was scum? Also, don't you think darthe is suspicious for trying to hammer after sunnydays posted?

[Baezu]

Slandaar does make a good point about thegooner. I also think this post from reddragon reeks of scum.

my list: scum: elyse thegooner reddragon
Null: nacho BP Ccb darthe pv
Town: slandaar grimgroove sunnydays baezu ztife

VOTE: thegooner

[Baezu]

Replacement comes in and makes an unfeasible claim. This is a normal, his role is bullshit.
Ohh jesus, he misread his role pm must be town.

With the vanilla role PM in mind, do you really, really think that he was trying to claim "vanilla at the moment but I might have hidden powers I can find in thread"? Because if you do, you're probably scum that feels cheated out of your delicious mislynch.

I agree with nacho here, definitely thinking gooner/dragon scumteam.

[Baezu]

Dragon, your last few posts

[Baezu]

BP and thegooner have not posted since the site came back up. I will begin looking for replacements for the both shortly.

I feel good about my gooner vote!

[Baezu]

ya

[Baezu]

Of course there is scum on your wagon. It's a matter of probability. But what does that mean? That my vote is not on scum? We will find the scum in this game- don't you worry. The face was because I didn't like your comment. I'm not being hypocritical. Gooner still looks more scummy to me.

[Baezu]

Slandaar and CCB, could you please give some reason as to why you think I'm scum. More specifically Slandaar, why has your opinion of me changed? You were pretty convinced I was town in the beginning of the game.

[Baezu]

Seems like Nachomomma is on a lot of people's scum list. Why, then are so few people voting for him? You want him to make more meaningful comments, put some pressure on him.

VOTE: Nachomomma

[Baezu]

@modless, who's slot did you replace into?

Thanks for the very thorough read on me but do you have any analysis on anyone else this game? What are your reads on Elyse, or Nachomamma, for instance?

[Baezu]

Thanks for the clarification. I was really confused there for a while

[Baezu]

Ya, I'm REALLY feeling an ELyse/Darthe scum team based on the last two pages of posts

UNVOTE: Nachomamma

VOTE: Elyse

[Baezu]

5 days to deadline.
In the exchange between Elyse and Nacho, nacho's case seems abstract, Elyse gives me an overrall more town feel.

Unvote, Vote: Nachomamma8

BP is still my highest scum read though, I'll be happy to get this wagon if there's enough support.

As for RD, from the previous game I have been with him he seems to be the kind of player with such a "defeatist" playstyle. As such he reads town to me, although I don't agree with the self vote.

^Scummy post is scummy.

Yes. Yes it is.

[Baezu]

I also have nothing much to add. I do agree with grim that the posts he chose make ztife look scummy but I personally think elyse is more scummy (for the reasons that have been brought against her over the last few pages) so my vote is staying there.

[Baezu]

Ccb I'm sure elyse would have told you she wad scum if she was scum. After all, it's the totem of trust

[Baezu]

Oh to have a piece of that totem. ...

[Baezu]

Grim, it seems you and I agree on elyse. Would you be willing to vote her today? I will vote with you on ztife tomorrow.

[Baezu]

I'm pretty sure I am voting her.

[Baezu]

I'm not really sure why I need to defend myself. Like I said before, I can be very helpful for town. My vote on Elyse was a byproduct of all of the walls and conversations that took place on the previous few pages. If you'd like me to put up my own wall of reanalysis, I'd be happy to do that. I'm not sure it would be useful and it certainly would not give you guys any new information. BTW, this post from nachopappa seems incredibly scummy:

Okay. I'm up for a Nacho lynch. He's stirring up shit and it seems he is content to watch us fight while he attempts to mislynch the fuck out of you.

And once the pressure dissipated, he went back to lurking 2+ days and counting. I'm really paranoid about people jumping on the RD and Elyse wagons. I know I'm one to talk since I was stupid and sheeped Mamma for a day.

But seriously, Nacho needs to go. He is so deadset on you, Elyse, way too confident about you that it scares the hell out of me.

unvote, vote Nachomamma

My last thoughts for the night.

In fact, I don't really like anything that he's been saying since he came in. I think he's using large posts to give the impression of work but his vote hopping and suspicion throwing rubs me the wrong way.

[Baezu]

I guess you better start eating sponges bc I'm town as fuck. Yes I am not a very good mafia player and I make a lot of mistakes but I'm learning and it doesn't make me scum. I'm honestly doing my best, I read every wall and every post. Sorry that things aren't just clear to me like they are to nachos and elyse. Sorry I don't have so much time to write walls of analysis. There's obviously nothing I can do to convince people I'm town. How can one disprove what isn't? All I can do is apologize and try harder in the future.

[Baezu]

Ok. The crowd yearns so I will deliver.
Here is my case on Elyse:

The reason she thinks RD is scum is because he was disinterested in the future wagon until it dissipated. Oh boy. I bet that had nothing to do with the amount of time it takes to catch up on posts when you've been gone for awhile.

My vote's already on thegooner so yeah.

I also think Red Dragon is scum. He was disinterested in the Future lynch the whole time, and now that it's dissipating he wants him dead? Wtf is that?

Don't really understand the scum reads on me. Baezu seems to be sheeping Slandaar's reads.

If it's because I haven't done much, then yeah I agree. I've been sick and when the people were posting walls I had a huge headache and stuff but yeah.

She also says I'm sheeping Slandaar. Slandaar has made some good posts. This post that he made on gooner was really convincing:

My vote for Elyse was because I didn't realize the RVS had ended.

OK I know I mentioned this line earlier but its bad on so many levels; It shows he wasn't interested in trying to end RVS he only voted 'seriously' when he thought everyone else was. It also shows how he is worried about it even though if he were town there is nothing to be worried about.

I personally think daytime activity (votes, posts, hammers, ...) are much easier to analyse than night kill-decisions.

I disagree wholeheartedly. During the night, the mafia have to act together. They choose as a team which player's interactions get analyzed. If someone is fingering the entire mafia team, they may leave them alive over the player that has fingered all civs to try and get mislynches. They may do the opposite for supreme WIFOM. During the day, mafia can deliberately not interact or choose to interact in certain ways to deceive. If a mafia gets pegged, then they can dig to keep suspicion away from any teammates. A night kill has no deception; that player is killed. No matter what, that player is getting analyzed the next day, and the lynch that follows generally reveals why mafia made that night hit.

UNVOTE: Elyse
VOTE: Grimgroove

My vote for Elyse was because I didn't realize the RVS had ended.

So this whole post is about Theory its such an inconsequential thing from Grim but Gooner votes him over it because he disagrees.

Now, at this point in the game BP No Lynch stuff had just begun, he completely ignored that, COMPLETELY. There is no mention at all of that he just attacks some other Theory.

Nope, not from EM. But counterclaims yield a mafia member nearly 100% of the time. If we are claiming in a lylo situation, then the game is pretty much a 50-50 RNG at that point. As for fake night actions, unless I'm mistaken, mafia make kills each night. If that's not the case and they can no kill, then my previous statement starts to lose water. I fully understand that mafia WIFOMs plenty, but at the end of the day (or in this case, night), someone is killed, and the town gets to analyze. If it was a WIFOM and the night kill was a decoy, then the next lynch/night kill should reveal that.

And if scum make mistakes, then it doesn't matter if we lynch or not. If a scum becomes obvious, then of course we lynch them.

I'm saying that a no lynch on the first day is not a pro-town proposition.

More Theory Talk

Note the bolded: hes not actually saying that at all and it completely contradicts with 'And if scum make mistakes, then it doesn't matter if we lynch or not'

This post has my mafia sensors blaring in my head. It's a combination of all CAPS words, frustration, and also some semi-surrendering ("I will just have to wait for the mafia to NK me n1 to show you my role PM"). In my experience, bringing up PM info to avoid being lynched is usually scummy. Also, in a 13 man game where the pool is already small, why not just shut up and die? Why fight so hard on Day 1 to not be lynched? Usually

if I'm civ and getting FOS'd by people early in games, I put my head down and work twice as hard to find mafia

. It does no good to overly defend early in games because that's what mafia wants. The longer a round goes with suspicion and discussions pointed towards a civ, the easier it is for mafia to hide. A civ death can be extremely helpful for civs in the long run.

VOTE: Baezu

'Also, in a 13 man game where the pool is already small, why not just shut up and die? Why fight so hard on Day 1 to not be lynched?'
Seriously. Read this.

The bolded tells you he is scum. He is being FOS'ed early in this game but has he put his head down and worked twice as hard? lolno. He is just spouting nonsense.

'The longer a round goes with suspicion and discussions pointed towards a civ, the easier it is for mafia to hide. A civ death can be extremely helpful for civs in the long run.'
I mean read it. Just read it.

Gooner is scum.

So sorry for "Sheeping" someone who i felt had a very good case against him.

Elyse jumps on Slandaar, saying "wagons" but that not considered sheeping?!

VOTE: Slandaar

Wagons.

@Future
How was BT's "I don't respond to stupid questions" confrontational? He was saying that Red Dragon responded to the questions despite calling them stupid.

I like playing as scum better. I've only done it once though and I replaced it, but it was extremely fun.

My favorite role would have to be vig. I like being able to kill someone without anyone else weighing in.

Then she blantantly sheeps Slandaar by jumping on gooner:

Reading through I agree with Slandaar about thegooner's explanation for his vote on me. That stood out like a sore thumb.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: thegooner

@Grizzle
Any chance of a tl;dr of your walls?

Elyse, why do you have a problem with me doing the same stuff you're doing? Why does that make me scum? I have voted on 3 people this entire game. You've had your votes on: Kattaze, gooner, Slandaar, reddragon, and me; you've FoS'd future (post #155). Perhaos the people you haven't voted are your scum buddies.

You've certainly been active, I'll give you that. But it seems like you're making cases on people out of minutia. Of the people you've voted and FoS'd, we can't all be scum. So who is it really Elyse?

[Baezu]

I can write an entire novel on my case on Elsye, is that really what people want to see? Me taking up all the space on a wall which no one will read just to justify a lynch that I think is obvious? If that's what you guys want, I will deliver. I WILL NOT STAND HERE AND BE ACCUSED OF NOT HELPING TOWN! And you accusing me of responding just to please people is scummy is bullshit. I'm trying to please people because I CARE ABOUT TOWN.

And now to reply to Nacho (I don't know how to multiquote so bear with me):

In post 333, Baezu wrote:
In post 332, Nachomamma8 wrote:
In post 305, Red Dragon wrote:
Replacement comes in and makes an unfeasible claim. This is a normal, his role is bullshit.
Ohh jesus, he misread his role pm must be town.
With the vanilla role PM in mind, do you really, really think that he was trying to claim "vanilla at the moment but I might have hidden powers I can find in thread"? Because if you do, you're probably scum that feels cheated out of your delicious mislynch.

I agree with nacho here, definitely thinking gooner/dragon scumteam.
Grimmgroove, this is for you.
You see how he's agreeing with me and my scumteam call? I point something like this out to him, and that should be a gotcha moment; I love when people click with me and have similar reads to me. And who doesn't?

I did truly agree with Nacho here. I think he interpreted his role the way it was written on page 1 andf thought he may have some special power. I don't share the conspiracy theorists' viewpoint that sunnydays is scum pretending he has a VT claim. Call me naive, but that's what I think

In post 372, Baezu wrote:
Of course there is scum on your wagon. It's a matter of probability. But what does that mean? That my vote is not on scum? We will find the scum in this game- don't you worry. The face was because I didn't like your comment. I'm not being hypocritical. Gooner still looks more scummy to me.
Then there's this, which is Baezu's reaction to a member of his hypothetical scumteam, and it's a reaction that is absolutely shit. Self-voting is very polarizing; people usually find it town as fuck, scum as fuck, or aggravatingly somewhere in the middle. Baezu says that and is like "well of course there's scum on your wagon! Gooner is scummier though", and if that's a genuine reaction coming from town then I'll eat the dirty sponge sitting next to me.

I was saying this as a matter of probability. In all probability, with the number of scum in the game to run someone up to L-2 or L-1 there is a mathematicallly significant correlation that one of the people on the wagon is scum. Sorry it doesn't meet you standards for "appropriate" town behavior.

In post 407, Baezu wrote:
Slandaar and CCB, could you please give some reason as to why you think I'm scum. More specifically Slandaar, why has your opinion of me changed? You were pretty convinced I was town in the beginning of the game.
I love when people zero in on someone's read switch specifically on them but not on read switches on anyone else. It's beautiful because it comes from scum so much; there wasn't a wagon on him at this point in time so there was no reason to suspect anyone of opportunism so this shouldn't have been a big deal for him. But it was because he didn't want Slandaar to lose his townread on him, so he was trying to see what he was doing wrong, he was aiming for some good old fashioned damage control.

This is the biggest load of bullshit. I just want people to justify their readsd. I've been asking people to justify their reads on other people:

@modless, who's slot did you replace into?

Thanks for the very thorough read on me but do you have any analysis on anyone else this game? What are your reads on Elyse, or Nachomamma, for instance?

So why can't I ask for clarification on votes for me? how exactly is that scummy?

In post 408, Baezu wrote:
Seems like Nachomomma is on a lot of people's scum list. Why, then are so few people voting for him? You want him to make more meaningful comments, put some pressure on him.

VOTE: Nachomomma
And this is opportunistic as hell. "Oh, a lot of people suspect Nacho so I'm just going to vote him if that's cool."
He's fanning my wagon even though he doesn't agree with it at all, and that's not a town move at all. Town move would be to ask why people were pussyfooting around my wagon, calling them out on it, but no, Baezu is voting me because other people are suspecting me.

You're right about this. It was a vote to put pressure on. I do think you're town - you've seemed pretty helpful. Of course, if Elyse flips town, you're my #1 scumpect. I'm not of the opinion that you're both town.

In post 462, Baezu wrote:
Ya, I'm REALLY feeling an ELyse/Darthe scum team based on the last two pages of posts

UNVOTE: Nachomamma

VOTE: Elyse
oh look scumteam call changes for no reason
votes Elyse because hell the wagon is gearing up and I'm scarier than I seemed before

I gave you a reason and I can elaborate if you wish.

In post 536, Baezu wrote:
Grim, it seems you and I agree on elyse. Would you be willing to vote her today? I will vote with you on ztife tomorrow.
but this is the piece de resistance
he just got done calling out an Elyse/Darthe scumteam.
meaning not only does he have a scum, but he has an association to an additional scum on top of that
but he offers to follow Grim tomorrow if he helps him lynch Elyse today, which is chaining lynches and inconsistent with what he's been talking about all game

Do we KNOW that there are only 2 scum? Cuz if you do, that makes you pretty scummy. Yes, Elyse/Darthe seems like a scumteam, but the third member of that team imo is Ztife.

[Baezu]

I will claim if you force me but it won't be good for town

[Baezu]

Btw at least 2 people on my wagon are probably scum. Help me figure out who they are, please.

[Baezu]

Lmao!!!

RD that is pretty scummy to tunnel on you so hard...I as well noticed the schizophrenic behavior in vote jumping but it's still not as scummy as having only one read.

[Baezu]

Miss Stranger, thank you for your very thorough analysis and recap of the past posts. Thank you for believing that I'm town. I am extremely new at this forum and grim had it right when he analyzed my reads to nacho in post 623. I honestly think Nachomamma is town. I agree with him being on my wagon - I've played like shit. Elyse I'm feeling more and more null towards. She and Nacho may actually both be town. Darthe I think is scum especially how Darthe flopped from me being town to an immediate vote once momentum was high. Since I've said before that I think Darthe is scum and his wagon is now picking up, I'm willing to jump on. I also really like Grim's case on Ztife. It actually seems almost as strong as the case on Darthe. That would be my pick for tomorrow's lynch. Yes, I've been coasting and mostly reading other people's posts and going off of those and not really having many new nor original ideas but I imagine that's how all people start out. It's not a scumtell - at least it's not in my case.

Not sure of the roles in this game or even what they are and how many they are but I'd love to have doc prot tonight. Thanks!

VOTE: Darthe

[Baezu]

I didn't want to do this but it seems you leave me no choice. I'm odd cop. I can investigate whoever you guys want me to tonight. Just let me know.


UNVOTE UNVOTE UNVOTE

[Baezu]

Yes. I can only investigate on odd nights. I'm in such a shitty position though cuz even if I'm not lynched, mafia will prob nk me on n1. I don't even know if there is a doctor to save me :/

[Baezu]

@peregrine I believe darthe and elyse are the scum on my wagon. Nachomom I'm reading as town but he's on cuz he hates my play so far. Same for ccb. Grim town slandaar town you null ztife scum sunny town nachopop jester? No jk I think he's town. MissS town. Did I miss anyone?

[Baezu]

I checked peregrine. No result. What does that mean?

[Baezu]

Oh ok. Thanks Elyse

[Baezu]

Well it would make sense that I'd be role blocked cuz scum knew I was cop.

[Baezu]

Fuck I'm so confused now...I'll have to reread everything when I have the time.

[Baezu]

I just reread nachos iso. He voted for Elyse 3 times and was pretty convinced she was scum. Then when we came back from n1 she immediately puts a vote on rd and gets a Wagon going. I think Elyse is scum trying to earn town cred by bussing her partner bc I believe both Elyse and rd are scum. Even though rd is closer to being lynched I gottavgo with the instigator here. I've gotten bad vibes from her all game. She's a good player, she's just scum.

VOTE: Elyse

[Baezu]

I just reread nachos iso. He voted for Elyse 3 times and was pretty convinced she was scum. Then when we came back from n1 she immediately puts a vote on rd and gets a Wagon going. I think Elyse is scum trying to earn town cred by bussing her partner bc I believe both Elyse and rd are scum. Even though rd is closer to being lynched I gottavgo with the instigator here. I've gotten bad vibes from her all game. She's a good player, she's just scum.

VOTE: Elyse

Why would I kill Nacho as scum? I would've killed you/Slandaar/Grim probably. It doesn't make sense for me to kill Nacho and I don't get why you would vote for someone with less votes if you think both are scum.

That is EXACTLY why you would kill nacho as scum. You were scared of him and knew he could push a wagon on you and get you lynched. Of anyone else you have the most motivation to want him dead. Also I love how you associated yourself with the nacho kill. I never mentioned that anywhere in my post. Sounds like a line that scum preplanned to say. Is that a slip? It certainly looks like a blatant scumtell if nothing else. I agree with grim you keep pushing for extensions to explain yourself. Explain yourself now because time is ticking and stalling will only make you look more scummy.

[Baezu]

Cmon guys we've got one

let's do this

its nigh guaranteed

Elyse = scum

[Baezu]

Guys, I fucked up. I thought I told the mod I wanted to investigate Peregrine. The reason I was going to investigate him was because he was a null for me and I wanted to confirm or deny whether or not he's town. The mod just informed me that I actually told him that I would investigate Slandaar. Again, same reasoning for investigating him. I didn't investigate nachos cuz I think they're both town. I didn't investigate Elyse bc she told me not to. The other person I would have liked to investigate is Ztife but that will have to wait til n3 if i'm still around.

Again, this might look scummy that I made a mistake in who I thought I investigated but before you get all over my shit, realize that I'm just a person (a person who gets high a lot) and my memory is not as good as it should be and I can make mistakes.

@Elyse, this isn't a bastard game. I highly doubt we have such a complex role as part of this setup. It sounds absurd and completely fabricated tbh. Someone was very creative in making that role - either you or the mod. So again, well played.

[Baezu]

I think that the two people attacking me for what I already referred to as an honest mistake are both scum. Perfect! Scum team = Elyse Ztife and RD so once I'm lynched and I flip cop town can actually win!

Good point about Elyse dodging the investigation for 2 more nights btw

[Baezu]

Elyse I want to think you're town. I really do! But I keep coming back to the same scummy feeling every time you make a post. I tried to ignore it d1 and give you the benefit of the doubt but at this point it's undeniable and can no longer be ignored.

[Baezu]

The mod just informed me that I actually told him that I would investigate Slandaar.

Why would the Mod do this?

It would actually be interfering with the game.

The reason I was going to investigate him was because he was a null for me and I wanted to confirm or deny whether or not he's town. The mod just informed me that I actually told him that I would investigate Slandaar. Again, same reasoning for investigating him.

slandaar town

The mod is keeping up with the thread and noticed that I was misinforming you guys. He wanted to make sure the right information was out there and so he pm'ed me to check if I was mistaken and I was

[Baezu]

My theory is that the people that are still accusing me are scum, MissStranger. There's no other reason for people to get so up in arms about me. That's what I would mark it down as.

@Slandaar, didn't realize I was breadcrumbing. I just genuinely like playing cop. Except when there's a RB and my role is completely useless.

[Baezu]

Sorry for trip posting but I'm not sure what difference it makes anyway who I investigated if I got a no result. I was leaning on Slandaar town for most of d1 but then he changed his tack and started wagonning me so I apparently checked him instead of my null. At this point I'm pretty pissed that town forced me to out my role. I don't know if I would have been RB'd if I didn't claim. I thought I could really be useful for town but now I realize that I actually have just as much power as any VT - less actually bc of my inexprience. Oh well, I guess I can learn more about the game this way. I'm disappointed in myself for not being able to help out more than just making educated guesses. I was hoping I could make a factual difference. Reads to come soon...

[Baezu]

Oh, and note to scum - if you want to hide, get on the team that thinks I'm town. You'll be harder to spot that way!

[Baezu]

Ooh. That's pretty convincing....incredibly smart. Not sure if I can argue with that. Perhaps grim is right.

[Baezu]

UNVOTE: Elyse

Ztife does seem like the next option

[Baezu]

Slandaar I see your point about mass claiming. Elyse and I have already claimed and as far as I'm concerned we are both town so can we just go with your scenario that assumes we are both town? I know I'm town and I would think that unless Elyse is an exceptionally deceptive player (which she very well may be - you'd know better than I cuz you've prob played with her before) she is also town. Even if we assume that one of us is scum there are still 2 more scum in the rest of the people on this thread. So let's focus on those people for awhile and we can revisit our supposed scumminess at a later time. Right now my top reads are peregrine and ztife. Who do you think is more scummy of those two?

[Baezu]

The other good thing about having a joat and a tracker is that maf can only rb one of them so hopefully we can get some useful info n2

[Baezu]

I thought slandaar said there were 3. Also I thought that in 13 players there's always 3. No?

[Baezu]

I've only played mafia IRL and that's how we always did the scenarios (for balance etc)

[Baezu]

You said that the 3rd town pr would probably be tracker no?

[Baezu]

VOTE: Red Dragon

I probably should have done this a long time ago

[Baezu]

@grim first of all, thanks for the protocol note. I will remember to tally votes in the future. Also, I think we should certainly give Elyse suggestions if what we want her to do but she should decide her final actions on her own. This way, scum won't know whether to block her or try to find and block the 3rd town pr. This was also the reason I didn't mention who I wanted to investigate as cop but I still took suggestions.

[Baezu]

I agree with the pool of 4. I also think that the vig shot should prob be used later. If Elyse and I are still around n3 mafia will only be able to block one of us and we may actually get some useful information. Until then maybe we get lucky and lynch the rb.

[Baezu]

Your case has also shown the ztife has not been involved very much in the voting. Not sure what that means but just pointing it out. I'd be willing to change my vote since PV was originally who I suspected to be scum and hence wanted to investigate him. Also the case that grim made on ztife is very convincing. My top two scum reads right now are PV and ztife.

you know what? RD can wait. We need to lynch scum and lynch scum now! I'm putting my vote with what my gut has been telling me all along. ..

VOTE: PeregrineV

[Baezu]

Slandaar not sure if this is the game PV is referring to but RD was in it...


http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=26891

[Baezu]

^^didn't really understand this post. PV, could you please give us a rundown of all of your reads? Thanks

[Baezu]

Vote Count:

RedDragon (3) - Nachopappa, Grimgroove, SunnyDays (L-3)
PeregrineV (3) - Baezu, Ztife, Miss Stranger (L-3)

Baezu (1) - Elyse
Lucky2u (1) - Red Dragon

Not Voting (3) - PeregrineV, Lucky2u, Slandaar

With 11 players alive it takes 6 votes to lynch or no lynch. Deadline is in (expired on 2013-07-22 09:00:00).

Elyse is V/LA until 7/17.



SunnyDays will be prodded.

@mod in post 938 slandaar voted for lucky. Please update vc. Thanks

Sorry, i mistook Slandaar's vote for a vote by Red Dragon. Fix'd.

[Baezu]

^^great question!

[Baezu]

Lucky - You have a valid point on my claim. I cannot argue that. I made a mistake, like I said. Honest mistake. I'm actually not sure that someone who was scum would have even corrected that mistake. I think it actually makes me more town for coming on and saying I made a mistake. If I were scum, I'd just say I investigated whomever and no one would be the wiser. As town, I want to communicate my actions to the best of my ability so that town has the most information going forward. It may be hard to believe that the mod contacted me, but it's the truth.

As far as Elyse proving her claim, again, she will probably be RB'd tonight anyway since mafia don't know who the third PR role is (if there even is one) so it won't amount to much.

[Baezu]

I'm an odd cop, Lucky. I can only investigate on odd nights so unfortunately, I don't even have the option of investigating anyone tonight. But the 3rd PR role (if there is one) is probably an even night role (Slandaar was suspecting even watcher) so maybe we'll get something from that...

[Baezu]

Slandaar it seems as if any time we get close to getting unified and making a decision you point out a different person and how their actions are scummy. What is the reason for doing so? It seems scum-motivated to me- keep town scrambling around and guessing and scum benefits.

[Baezu]

I think it's highly unlikely that there is both a JOAT and a doc in the same setup. Their roles overlap. One of them must be lying. I think since PV just volunteered his role without even being at L-1 is flailing. I'm keeping my vote where it is.

[Baezu]

Instead of "probably" X shot doc, why don't we ask him instead? Don't say bye to me yet, I have three more people to piss off before I'm dead.

Concerning grim. First paragraph, I'm not allowed to be optimistic about the future? I don't understand your complaint. Do you want me to be strict and business like rather that have fun playing this game? If happiness and sarcasm become banned here I am deleting my account right now.

You are totally right about that second paragraph though, indecisiveness should be punished.

VOTE: lucky2u

Your third point however is again non sense. I hate the appearing town logic many people have on this site. Of course I want to appear town, I AM town. I actively avoid trying to appear scum. So far my track record as town proves I am doing it badly. Don't worry, you'll see when I flip.

WTF? this is the third game in a row with a self vote!!! Do you people not realize how anti town that is?!

[Baezu]

So the claims now are doc, cop, and JOAT?

Odd cop, x-shot JOAT, and probably x-shot doc.

PereV is town. That claim makes sense and is actually in good timing.
Bye lucky.

Unvote, Vote: Lucky2u

you seem pretty confident in this assessment. SCUMMY!!! Also to have odd cop AND odd doc doesn't make sense.

[Baezu]

^^exactly

[Baezu]

My last post was agreeing with slandaar

[Baezu]

Why will I have to he lynched if I survive the night? I am effectively a VT now because scum can just RB me every night. Also I'm not necessarily obvtown so instead of wasting a nk on me they would be wiser to take out someone that is not just as likely to get lynched as nk'd, which I believe I am.

[Baezu]

I couldn't have said it better myself Slandaar. Well done!

[Baezu]

Well I'll be - she wasn't kidding...I'll miss you elyse.

[Baezu]

How many more roles could we even have slandaar?

[Baezu]

Ztife's turn to claim

slandaar - scum can cc me if they want me to be lynched. But I guess then once I'm lynched you'll definitely know one scum. So works for me.

[Baezu]

^^good case

I still don't understand why PV claimed doc and not bodyguard...

[Baezu]

I know it has been said but that is a legitimately good case.

The case on Ztife? Is that the case to which you are referring?

[Baezu]

I am very tempted to vote Ztife as well. Alas, waiting for RD replacement...

[Baezu]

Hello! I'll get read up and see what needs lynchin'.

Hey CDB!

Actually atm we are massclaiming and you're next! Feel free to read through, though.

[Baezu]

Anyways I forgot Sunny claimed earlier, he can still claim but it doesn't matter order of claims now

I am a VT and a neighbour with Grim and Stranger.

Will post more later about this as I have things to say but I don't really have the time at present.

Grim, Stranger, can you confirm this?

Also, not gonna wait for anymore claims:

VOTE: Ztife

[Baezu]

LOL. I really should've tried harder, but I knew Matt had already won the game for us.

@Lucky- You really shouldn't be so scummy as town. It only helps mafia. Things might have gone differently if you didn't play so scummy.

That's some Sage advice there buddy, why didnt I think of that? /endsarcasm

For some reason I only appear town when I am playing scum. Everytime I play as town, I appear scum. If I knew how to appear town as both I would already have done it.

DITTO!!!

[Baezu]

Grim you did fantastic man!

Same goes for you sunny!

As always, I love playing with you Slandaar!