Mini 1452 - Inevitable Mafia (Game Over)

[nhammen]

/confirm

[nhammen]

Well, I arrive and significant discussion is already occuring.

why are we voting him? BRO's post was completely useless and was a joke reply to what was a serious statement.

Buh? Wha? Well, this seems to indicate that he believes gorckat's statement. I don't think anybody would try to WIFOM right out of the gate. This means that if jmo is scum, then gorckat and Radiant are not.

Vote: JMO

Totally serious vote. Really overreacts to a joke response to an obvious joke by gorc (who is obvtown so far in the early game, by the way - I like his opening). But he doesn't say anything about TMT, who enters the game ignoring all serious discussion and reverting to RVS instead of trying to keep out of it. Why are you attacking one player for responding to a joke with a joke, but ignoring another player who opens with jokes after serious discussion has started. He's applying two different standards to two different players. That's not town. Motivations behind that, of course, remain up in the air, but there's no such motivation for town (unless he's a mason, but the probability of that is on the extreme low side).

Although I agree that jmo looks slightly scummy for his reaction to gorc and BRO, there is a very obvious flaw in the logic in this post. I will not mention it, because I want to see if jmo can defend himself.

Your 2, 3 and 4 go from wanting more info, not seeing why I make the statement and then being totes fine with my statement.

those descriptions aren't quite accurate

2 is correct, I didn't get it at first and wanted more info
3 is not correct, I stated that I didn't see a reason for you to know that radiant was town, NOT that I didn't see a reason for you to make a post. At this point I did think your post made sense, but I forgot to mention it so I brought it up in my next post.
4. Correct, I am totes fine with your statement, even though I don't see any way for you to know radiant was town.

What caused the change between #2 and #3?

So then this is how it would have played out.

TMT did something you think is scummy.
JMO ignored him and therefor is scummier?

I didn't say anything about TMT, does that mean I'm scum as well?

If JMO's scuminess is determined by TMT being scum (after all if TMT isn't scum, then ignoring him doesn't look nearly as bad) then shouldn't your vote by on TMT?

Ummm... what? This is not at all what Rob's argument was. Either you are badly misreading his argument, or you are trying to deflect attention off of jmo and on to TMT. Do not like.

It's because Letters is scum. Duh.

Yes, I do.

Someone, please let me know what I did. I feel like it's one of those situations where people are talking behind your back, but in a way so that you can hear snatches of the conversation.

The second one is the old "RVS is over because I have found something to discuss, but he still did an RVS vote rather than joining the discussion, get him!" It's a dumb argument in my opinion. Different people have different thresholds of discussion to exit RVS.

And what would that be? Unless they are masons together I can't see how gorkcat would know radiant is town.

I find it interesting that the first thing that comes to mind here for you is that Gorkcat could be mason and not that he could be scum; almost as if you already know he's not scum?

Correct, I am totes fine with your statement, even though I don't see any way for you to know radiant was town.

You shouldn't be fine with someone making a statement like that without any elaboration.

Agree with the first, but disagree with the second.

It was more of the fact that BRO directly quoted the statement, and replied with nothing useful. Possibly discusing such said statement could have been useful to town, as it would move us from RVS and create more discussion to catching scum.

TMT didn't acknowledge the statement like BRO did.

This is the exact flaw that I saw in Rob's argument.

[nhammen]

DCLXVI what is your opinion of Rob?

[nhammen]

So he's scum because your glob of text with bad formatting was a glob of text with bad formatting?

obviously it didn't hold its value with other players. Maybe it isn't so great.

And now you are defending DCL? Curiouser and curiouser. His case was easy to understand. I just didn't agree. How either of you failed to understand when pretty much everyone else did is baffling.

[nhammen]

I didn't post at all over the weekend, so I have 4 pages to catch up on. I will mention one thing about Mason claims. I was in an open game, in which my partner was forced to claim on D-1 (Link). The SK (Ythill) then pressured my partner into outing me as well. This was on page 7 on D1, with no other roles claimed. This SK ended up winning and claimed that they would have done the same as town. A thread was started in MD after the game ended (don't have link), in which most players did not agree with Ythill, but there were a few that did.

My memories of that game make me somewhat suspicious of anybody that wants our Mason to out his partner. But I have 4 pages to read now, so I'll do that before making any more comments.

[nhammen]

Got sidetracked while reading. Also, this will likely end up being a big wall, so I will break it up a little bit. This also will give people more time to respond to earlier parts, and may show the thought processes that I have while doing my readthrough.

I like how you're subtly pushing this TMT lynch without getting behind it.

vote:TMT

I think Rob's point about him is accurate.

I am behind a TMT lynch, please don't misrep me.

With the fact that you have claimed Mason, and thus are likely town, this looks even worse for Radiant.

It's because Letters is scum. Duh.

Yes, I do.

Someone, please let me know what I did. I feel like it's one of those situations where people are talking behind your back, but in a way so that you can hear snatches of the conversation.

WHY ME!!!!?!??!?!?!??!?!

Are you drawing attention to this because you think it looks scummy? If so, why are scum more likely to mke this comment than town? If not, what is the purpose behind this part of your post?

I thought you were a PR with the way you were deflecting and such. Hence, my caution to see his scumminess

You think deflecting is a town tell... Ummm, wow. Just wow. Does "hey I told you guys I was right to defend him" ping anybody else's scumdar? At this point, jmo is either a mason partner or a scum, in my eyes. Since scum already know the answer to that, the only qualms I feel about pressuring him are the whole "what if I'm wrong" thing. If jmo is town, scum probably already suspect jmo as the most likely partner, so if he is non-Mason town, then he will draw an extra kill away from the Mason(s).

Gorckat is town for reasons already given.

Wait, what reasons already given? I just isoed you to make sure and don't see squat. Just a discussion about that first post of his.

Rob is omgusing me cause of that glob of text comment. He makes sense as a tmt partner if tmt is scum.

I'm gonna disagree. I have a pretty strong townread on Rob. Well, "had" I guess. He is one of the players that wants more info on the Mason claim, which reduces my read somewhat. But either way, that wasn't OMGUS. Your description of Rob's case was completely incorrect.


On to the next page!

[nhammen]

That was one part of the breadcrumbing I was doing before I got ran up.

wow... what? You bread crumb with a question about an rvs thing with gorcat? what? So you claimed on page 2 that you are masons with gorcat so on page 8 you could be "cleared". What the heck?

Gorckat is town for reasons already given.

Admiral is town. He is technically correct with his reason for voting me but the reason I left out the possibly of gorckat knowing radiant was town cause he was scum was because at that point I already had gorckat as a town read.

So you are masons with gorcat.

Two things here. First, you FAIL at reading comprehension. Second, even if it were true, and he was Masons with gorc, WHY WOULD YOU ANNOUNCE THAT FACT?!?!? Why do you want the scum to know who the Mason partner is?

Got to love how cool dog is both assuming gorckat is a mason with me and calling for my lynch.

Yeah... that looks extremely scummy.

One mason is already out. If DCL isn't scum, then the mason team can already be "taken out" by killing the one mason already revealed. What good is a single mason? They're just a VT.

Give me one good reason NOT to reveal the other "mason," especially when you consider that if DCL is scum, he'd be forced into a position to be lynched or hand us a scum-partner as his "mason-buddy" to keep alive.

If DCL is Mason, and is killed before revealing his partner, then later in the game (day before LYLO?) Other Mason claims. If there is a counterclaim, then we get a 1 for 1 trade, yay! If not, then Other Mason is confirmed, yay! If there is another PR alive, Other Mason has drawn the scumkill away from the PR, yay! So many good outcomes... but only if we DON'T OUT THE PARTNER!

I think a mason number would be good, but not their identities. DBK pointed out the use of having named townies in LyLo, but that's only true if we know how many masons there are as to prevent mason fakeclaims when all the masons are taken out.

This is very very true. We need this info from DCL before the day ends.

I don't think someone needs claim mason also, if there is one. He would be relying on his scum partner to claim mason with him, if one of them flip scum, he just gave away his partner too.

As written, this post makes no sense. Could you explain it better jmo? Right now it looks like you say that no other player needs to claim Mason, but if DCL flips scum, then the other player who claimed Mason (even though you "don't think someone needs claim mason also") would be the next lynch.


For my own use:
At this point CooLDoG, Rob, and TMT have advocated outing the Mason partner.


On to the next page!

[nhammen]

I'm fine with DCL being town right now.

I thought he was town PR all along. Town PRs often begin to seem to flail earlier than scum because they are obviously town in their mind, while scum try to keep it cool until its absolutely needed.

Why is that first quote only "right now" then? Also, your reasoning for him being a PR sounds like BS to me.

[nhammen]

I'm going to re-vote for DCLXVI for now.

Don't hammer him until I get a chance to make my final decision for what I want to do today.

VOTE: DCLXVI

Ummm... what? Hello scumpoints.

radiant wants someone to hammer me but she wants an easy out so she isn't responsible for the lynch. that is scummy as hell.

I'd say if anything, its more likely that she wants you to be pressured into claiming your partner, without her being responsible, but either way it is quite scummy. I mean, who would be dumb enough to think someone would hammer the claimed Mason?

DCL, if he's a town mason, is dead tonight or possibly the next night, agreed?

Alright, if we accept that, then his partner is just a VT. I'd rather that VT turn into a 100% no WIFOM confirmed townie - an innocent child, if you will - upon DCL's death and flip.

I'd rather that VT turn into a 100% no WIFOM confirmed townie at a time when the scum have a harder choice to make than "kill the confirmed or choose someone random". Like maybe when the scum's choice would be "kill the confirmed or the investigative role".


On to the final page of my read!

[nhammen]

So no, I see no downside in this specific situation.

At first I didn't like the idea of masons claiming. Upon further reflection, masons are of limited use to the Town. Equally, they are lower priority targets for scum. They are essentially two VT's that can chit chat, right? It's not like they are going to have information we don't already have outside of each others' identities. If the other mason reveals and they can cross-confirm each other, it's like having two innocent results from a cop.

So, if the scum want to waste their night actions on Masons, that buys our PR's more time to do what they need to do. Seems like a reasonable request. What am I missing?

You are missing that innocent results from a cop are more powerful later in the game than earlier.

But regardless of all of this, we have to lynch dcl today, no matter what. There is no real way around it. Scum will just keep this over our heads in wifom until 1 day before lylo where we have a possible 3 way mason claim thing going on... Don't assume that the scum will kill dcl tonight for us... oh no, they want to keep him alive for as long as possible.

What in the-
I don't even-
There are no words-
hkvsfljaglksdhvkl;asbvl;andvln
I don't know if this is extremely scummy or just plain dumb.

It turns the masons into a power role, though. Innocent childs are a power role - a strong one at that.

So does the Mason claiming on some other day! The only difference, is that the scum get to choose whether the last Mason is turned into an Innocent Child or something STRONGER (as in, outs a scum on its death).

Yates. So you think that asking the mason partner to claim is a reasonable request, as per your #200.

And yet when I say that I think the other mason should claim it's the so called "straw on the camel's back" that makes you vote me?

Umm... wow! Had not noticed this. Now I have to decide between CooLDoG, Radiant, and Yates.


After a bit of thought, I have decided on Radiant. Because DoG could just be playing really really badly and Yates only has one scummy mark, while Radiant has a few.
VOTE: Radiant

[nhammen]

And my reasoning isn't BS. You've never flailed as town PR because you think its painfully obvious that you are town and no one else sees it?

To be fair, I don't think I have flailed ever. If nobody else sees something, then by definition, that something is not painfully obvious.

On the contrary, I have pushed for this lynch from the onset, and will take complete responsibility for it. Unless you're seriously asserting that there was a significant chance of someone randomly quickhammering for no reason, then your case holds no water, and if you are seriously asserting that, then what information does that give us about the quickhammerer that town can use? No, your partner isn't going to quickhammer you for towncred, relax.

As long as you realize this, then this point against you is gone.

Why is radiant self-voting?

Because why not.

Because it is against your alignment's win condition no matter what alignment you are. It is very bad play, no matter what.

@everyone else, stop letting DCL divert attention with the shitty wagon on me. Rob is also a strong contender for partner status, making DCL/Rob potentially two members of a 3 person scumteam. His responses to the pressure on him sucked elephant dick and he doesn't do anything for town except strut around playing passively while acting like his mason claim makes him confirmed town.

Scum are in general not dumb enough to actually claim Mason. I don't know of any cases in which scum has done this. It means that they will eventually get lynched.

Like the guy's vote has been on DCL because DCL was subtly pushing a lynch on TMT, even though DCL is very clearly claiming TMT is scummy and voting him.

And then TMT stops confronting me about my vote and starts questioning Yates on his.

Why don't people see this? He's trying his hardest to 1.) look townie by participating in Mason discussion and 2.) he is focused on derailing his own wagon instead of 3.) looking for scum through tactics other than defense.

His ISO isn't hard to look through, shouldn't take but a few minutes.

I don't know what alignment he is. He doesn't seem to be doing anything productive whatever his alignment is. Either way he seems to be a bad player... But that's all I can really say about him. That's why I have him as null but leaning toward scum. There are scummier players in this game.

His post reeks of scum caught for the wrong reasons, also know as "why me".

I believe that he was being honest, regardless of alignment. He obviously didn't know what the case against him was. How can this be "scum caught for the wrong reasons" if he didn't even know what the reasons were?

The major thing that made me check him was the fact that he voted me with really shitty justification.

But after reading what he's posted so far, I'm more inclined to consider him just an inexperienced player in general, and I think that if he was scum, he would have made many more obvious scumslips than he has so far.

Also, most of what I read that made me lean town was his excessive self preservation focus and his misguided push on me, which can also be attributed to him just being a new player.

I wouldn't strongly object to the lynch normally, because I think he's useless to town unless he's a PR, but as DBK said, there are much better lynches today. Hell, I'd rather lynch at least half of the game over him, most notably CoolDog and DCLXVI.

Furthermore, TMT isn't the only person voting me, and he at least gave rationale; I don't like the fact that anyone is trying to wagon me right now, and I'm still trying to decide whether the others are misguided town or scum trying to avoid attracting attention by sitting on an side wagon. That includes you too, by the way, but, for now, I consider you fairly town. Your current vote still sucks, though.

This looks like legitimate scumhunting here. He is focusing too much on his own wagon, but that is standard newb behavior. And the fact that he has self-voted tells me that even though his join date is months ago he still has newb psychology.

I am certain there is at least one scum on my wagon and need to reassess my reads on Nhammen and Rob13.

When I get back tonight there will be more on this.

So... this never happened.

I meant town sorry. See if we let all of this drag out then we have th possibility of a 3 mason claims on the same day in which 2 will by right and one will be scum.

Ummmm... DoG. If there are 3 Mason claims, the two who are actually masons will confirm each other, leaving the scum known. Try your fail-logic somewhere else.

"

When do we lynch a living DCL/partner

" is the question we need to answer today. If we are going to let DCL pass, are we going to hang him tomorrow? Day 3? If so, then we have let scum dictate the future of the game and we need to take that control back now and leave them unknowing of the future.

Honestly, there are too many unknowns to make that kind of statement this early. To many unknown roles, and unknown alignments, which we will learn when we get some flips/claims.


This is turning into a bit of a wall, so I will break up my post here. Still reading.

[nhammen]

Radiant is town... And I don't particularly want to say why.

radiant wants someone to hammer me but she wants an easy out so she isn't responsible for the lynch. that is scummy as hell.

Since Radiant seems to be scum now, wanna share why you had them as town for secret reasons?

I'm curious about this as well, and it doesn't seem to have been answered, unless I have missed it. Also, DCLXVI you never explained your townread on gorckat when I asked earlier. Do you not want to explain townreads?

[nhammen]

Since Radiant seems to be scum now, wanna share why you had them as town for secret reasons?

Later, it will make sense I promise.

Sorry, didn't see this. I'm still catching up. Guess I should have waited to post that.

[nhammen]

Can someone,

anyone

, summarize the case on DCL

before

the Mason claim? I'm looking through his ISO, didn't see anything bad about it up until the Mason claim...

Well, I was considering voting him, but had not yet done so before his claim. The case, as I saw it, was the changing views regarding gorckat's opening, his misrepresentation of Rob's jmo case, and his defending of jmo. I asked him what his opinion of Rob was, to see if it was a genuine misunderstanding or if it was putting false words in Rob's mouth, and his answer indicated it was a genuine misunderstanding. And then he claimed...

vote: rob

radiant is town, gorc is town, admiral is town

mason partner should claim today

This is... surprising to say the least. Case against Rob? I have him as a townread. The only case against him that I have is his pushing the second mason claim. But you are doing that as well, so you can't consider that a case against him. So... why the Rob vote? Or anything else as well. Your slot has been empty for 10 pages, so we will need this information to get a read on the slot.

Because I am relatively new to me, explain to me the concept of doomed people getting reads.
If they are town, are we to trust them? If they are scum, are we to trust them?

If they are scum we don't trust them, because scum lie. If they are town, we don't trust them because if we lynched them then they must have been playing badly. Players should give reads though, because the same name keeps coming up as scum among doomed town, then you might want to take a closer look at that name.

unvote

You know what, scum don't get extra kills. Radiant will have a chance to prove that she is who she says she is. I don't believe he, but two kills would prove that she isn't mafia.

Anther very important post to point out.

I did stop being "concerned with getting you lynched" with the intention of investing tonight

Bull effing shit.

Back. I've made up my mind and am definitely pushing the DCL wagon to its finish.

I'm extremely tempted to put my vote back on you.

I figure I'll just selfvote this, because there is no coherent argument that I am scum yet four idiots are on my wagon.

I have no desire to play with a town this bad, so I'll just lynch myself to confirm myself and leave you guys with strategy.

If we have anyone

else

with vig powers

, shoot DCLXVI tonight. He's scum.

Lynch DCL if he's not already dead, then kill Rob.


Feel free to do whatever you guys want following that.

VOTE: RadiantCowbells

Town Power roles do not self-vote.

but eff it, that is definitely looking like a pr slip right there.

This is a prety good investigation of radiant's claim. I'm convinced enough to let it be tested tonight.
UNVOTE:
However, some of Radiant's statements regarding Mason claims and the DCL wagon are suspiciously contradictory. But his role is confirmable, so he lives at least until we see the results of the night.

[nhammen]

Cooldog wagon as it stands: admiral, DBK, BRO, Rob, DCL

By my count, that is L-2. Yates has indicated willingness to vote. I also want to see a cooldog lynch. However, I will not L-1 him at this time, unless I hear Yates say that he will wait for a claim from cooldog before hammering, because the content of Yates's last post suggested he would not wait for a claim.

[nhammen]

Actually,

Yates

, if you do not wait for a claim from cooldog before hammering, I will consider that a scumclaim from you.

VOTE: CooLDoG
That is L-1.

[nhammen]

yeah ok its rob-yates-dcl

3 reasons CoolDog isn't scum Go.

This is an odd response to his post. You should ask why these people are scum, not why CooLDoG isn't. There are multiple reasons for this. First off, how would someone prove a negative like this. Secondly, rofl may be town that prefers to scumhunt rather than townhunt, so why are you trying to get him to townhunt, when he is making claims about who is scum. Finally, it almost looks like you are trying to connect him to CooLDoG in some way. It is odd.

not one of those things amounts to any more than a difference in opinion on matters of game theory. you don't demonstrate in any way why these things are scummy.

Well guess what? It's still Day 1 so I don't have a guilty result on him. And you have not presented a single reason he's Town. And neither has he. It's not on me to propve that a scummy player is just playing like crap and not actually scum. Because you know what? He might actually be scum. And now you are hitching your horse to that wagon. Enjoy the ride.

And hello trying to connect rofl and CooLDoG.

you guys should have really lynched dcl today. But whatever. When you guys lose over the miller thing remember that I told you so.

Did you believe you were hammered when you made this post?

Note: Over the course of page 16 and 17, my townread on Rob disappeared based on his strange vote hopping and back and forth with Radiant. The entirety of page 17 was garbage.

I support the plan contained in this post. I do not agree with putting CooLDoG in the town pile. I have a stronger scumread on CooLDoG than TMT, but if deadline looms, then TMT is an acceptable compromise lynch.

[nhammen]

Votecount #5:
TMTOLBTWNTOF - BROseidon, jmo16mla, Yates
DLCXVI - CooLDoG,
Rob13 - roftcopter, Rob13
RadiantCowbells - TMTOLBTWNTOF, Rob13,
CooLDoG - ThAdmiral, Broseidon, DCLXVI, nhammen, gorckat, RadiantCowbells

Not voting - Hoopla

With 13 alive, it takes 7 votes to replace someone with empty space! Hoopla replaces Does Bo Know.

Deadline is May 30th (extended one day).

You have BRO and Rob voting twice in this count (including Rob voting for himself?). Please fix.

[nhammen]

So... why the Rob vote? Or anything else as well. Your slot has been empty for 10 pages, so we will need this information to get a read on the slot.

yeah ok its rob-yates-dcl

i'm obviously pro-shooting-rob

If rofl's slot had been on the DCL wagon, I would seriously be considering moving my vote. We need reasons from you rofl.

[nhammen]

Oh, I have been complaining about rofl's lack of reasons since he replaced in. But what's up is that you

yeah ok its rob-yates-dcl

3 reasons CoolDog isn't scum Go.

explicitly ask rofl to defend CooLDoG and then

not one of those things amounts to any more than a difference in opinion on matters of game theory. you don't demonstrate in any way why these things are scummy.

Well guess what? It's still Day 1 so I don't have a guilty result on him. And you have not presented a single reason he's Town. And neither has he. It's not on me to propve that a scummy player is just playing like crap and not actually scum. Because you know what? He might actually be scum. And now you are hitching your horse to that wagon. Enjoy the ride.

attack him for defending CooLDoG. It looks pretty scummy.

[nhammen]

I am also a VT.

Still need rofl, jmo, and BRO to claim.

[nhammen]

Busy for the next 24 hours. Still waiting on rofl (or replacement) it looks like. If he claims VT, it looks very likely that both PR claims are town. This brings me to something I thought of earlier. If we are willing to assume Radiant is town, then it is optimal for him to wait until D4 to claim results from his other two abilities (unless he investigates and gets a guilty tonight). But only if that assumption holds.

[nhammen]

If we are willing to assume Radiant is town, then it is optimal for him to wait until D4 to claim results from his other two abilities

Why? What makes you think he'd even be alive D4?

I just realized that my earlier post said we would need to assume Radiant is town for this to be optimal, but we actually would need to assume he is town and not lying.
There are 3 possibilities for non-fakeclaiming-Radiant:
1) Radiant investigates N2 and gets a guilty
2) Radiant investigates N2 and gets an innocent
3) Radiant commutes N2 and investigates N3

For 1, Radiant would claim immediately (he better!)

For 2, there are 3 options for D3:
a) no claim
b) claim innocent but not who was investigated
c) fully claim innocent
For (b) and (c), scum know that Radiant will commute N3, and will not kill him. In fact, (c) gives scum a perfect target to kill. Thus, (b) is strictly better than (c). The difference between (a) and (b) is that in (b) scum know that Radiant will commute on N3, but scum have no knowledge for (a). This means that the only difference is that in (a), scum have a chance to hit a commuting Radiant and get no kill. Thus (a) is strictly better than (b).

For 3, there are 2 options for D3:
claim the commute or not
If Radiant claims a commute on D3, then scum know that he can be killed N3, and will kill him to remove a power role and prevent his investigation from going off.
If Radiant does not claim a commute on D3, then scum are left in the dark and might choose not to target him because they don't know if this is case 2 or 3. Thus, no claim is strictly better than claiming a commute.

Thus, in both case 2 and 3, no claim is the best option. Does anybody disagree with my logic?

I don't want him to make any comments on anyone in this game except yates: answer whether he is the mason partner or not.

GTFO Jmo.

And rofl didn't want him to make any comments on anyone other than Hoopla. And he didn't even need these comments to be mason related. RC face it, you were doing pretty much the same thing you didn't like rofl doing. DCL will tell us if Yates is the second mason only if Yates hits L-1. It is suboptimal to do so earlier.

[nhammen]

There is a lot of contradictory shit going on here.

I answered this in 588. There is enough in that response and my claim that thinking for a minute should tell you all you need to know. And now you need to drop it.

I'm not seeing what you are talking about, even after you say that it is in 588.

I personally doubt scum would be so bold as to push a claimed mason wagon that aggressively. Would rather lynch Yates at this point. Maybe look at CoolDoG in a few days if we are still flipping townies.

I think that both CooLDoG and Yates look scummy. However, it seems to me that your argument for not lynching CooLDoG is equivalent to "too scummy to be scum". But even so, at this point I have Yates as slightly scummier than CooLDoG, so
VOTE: Yates

[nhammen]

Votecount #9:
Yates - RadiantCowbells, Broseidon
DCLXVI - CooLDoG
ThAdmiral - DCLXVI
roflcopter - Yates,

Not voting - ThAdmiral, roflcopter, nhammen, jmo16mla, Hoopla, gorckat

With 11 alive, it takes 6 votes to throw somebody off a cliff.

Deadline is June 15th.

Mod: rofl voted Yates in 559

unless that didn't count since it was bold rather than using the vote tag.

[nhammen]

I am the Town Cop
I received an innocent result last night
I will not be revealing innocent results until I have two or an innocent and a guilty

That is all.

So... you are saying that your first claim was a lie. And that you will not reveal results when your death is likely if you are telling the truth. Well, it had already been established that you are either dumb town or scum, and this confirms it.

And you claimed VT first becausee?

Is this a serious question or lulz?

I wouldn't expect neighbor 2 to claim. I wouldn't expect the doc to claim. So, what else would I claim?

It's a massclaim. You tell the damn truth. Unless you are scum. Which is looking more and more likely by the post.

Or something else. I'll put it to you this way; my result wasn't a guilty. I'm leaving it at that.

You already told us your result was an innocent. Or did you lie a SECOND time? I want to explicitly state what I think this post is, just in case nobody else sees it. He was caught out by gorck as having not "investigated" one of his obvious investigation targets last night. Thus, he had to retract the "innocent" so that he could say that he actually did investigate one of the people he was "suspicious" of.

see scum dance

dance scum, dance!

Exactly. Long drawn out claims are indicative of scum. Lynch it with FIRE!

[nhammen]

There are two many unknowns on those wagons, and no scum flipped. I'm not sure we can reach any useful conclusions from wagon analysis. gorck does look slightly more scumy from the analysis, but I'm going to need to do some ISOs to reach any real conclusions.

As for claiming, RC shouldn't claim anything today, and I'm not sure if the mason should claim today either. If neither player claims, then scum can't kill RC because there is a chance he still has his Commute, and scum don't know who the possibly two confirmed innocents are. Thus, scum don't know who to kill. If there is a confirmed innocent, then scum know who they need to kill. If RC claims to have commuted, then scum know who they need to kill. WE DON'T WANT TO GIVE SCUM THE OBVIOUS CHOICE! We want to leave them guessing.

RC, voting Hoopla for those reasons is dumb.

Radiant - if you investigated an innocent do actually tell us.

It might be better to say that he investigated an innocent, but not name them unless they get run up to a lynch? Ummm, no wait. Nevermind. If we say that is the best option and he doesn't say anything about an investigation, then scum know he commuted.

RC shouldn't say jack shit about what he did unless he got a guilty last night.

This is the best option.

[nhammen]

and that Cooldog are town.

I've actually started to waver in this direction, but am not sold yet. He was pretty scummy D1, and even if his later behavior has just been dumb rther than scummy, I don't want to give a free pass for D1. Could you give reasons for your view?

Cooldog wagon as it stands: admiral, DBK, BRO, Rob, DCL

Totally missed this earlier when doing VCA. Important to note that nhammen then puts CooLDoG an L-1.

Reading nhammen's ISO is kind of painful. He never gives solid reads and is super reactionary to everything. He tries to look like he's adding content while never actually doing anything. I think Yates is probably right on this one. If it's not nhammen then CooLDoG is probably scum (that Rob and DCL flipped town is indicative of this).

VOTE: Nhammen

I am not seeing multiple things from this post. First off, why is the L-1 important? Secondly, I'm pretty sure I have given solid reads when needed. At least I remember typing reads up. Although I likely did play reactionary; I know I have been accused of that in other games. Finally, why is CooLDoG scum if I am town? Is it just based on his scumminess, or do you see some interaction that indicates one of us is scum?

Broseidon looking pretty dang towny to me. I approve of this lynch.

VOTE: Nhammen

vote: nhammen

Brosiedon's vote was probably towny; these are dumb. Reasons?

I can't believe this guy.

Someone il check out n tomorrow.

Which person are you talking about?

[nhammen]

Yeah, that frustration is pretty much the reason I have been wavering towards a townread on CooLDoG.

Although CooLDoG, is leading the town scummy? Hoopla always tends to be a townleader type, in my memory.

[nhammen]

I don't think leading the town is scummy. I was asking CooLDoG if he finds it scummy or rather wanted him to think about why he finds it scummy. I have one of the most solid townreads I have had in any game on Hoopla's slot and don't find any of her attempts to organize the town to be scummy.

[nhammen]

I had a townread on BRO on D1, but I don't remember much of his contributions at this time. I may have to take a closer look at some point, but I'm too lazy to do any ISOs at the moment.

I'd like to try something though
VOTE: rofl

[nhammen]

Crap! The crash ate my post. I will try to recover most of it from memory. Additionally, it doesn't matter if it matches exactly, since either way it will contain my thoughts on the game.

I voted for rofl because he had not posted here for four days. I expected that if he was scum that was reading the thread but not posting, then he would show up soon after and complain about my vote. He did show up soon after my vote, but did not mention my vote at all. I'm not sure what to make of that.

I'm also not sure of what to make of the wagon on me. BRO's vote looks like real scumhunting, but rofl refuses to give reasons for his actions, and RC has been derping his votes all day.

[nhammen]

you also suspected me as the third scum partner, and called me derp.

Right. I think I called half of the living player derp.

But I had the scumteam as rofl/admiral/jmo. But now I'm not sure. A ctrl-f search of each of you reveals that you didn't mention each other almost at all. However, I would have thought that if you were scum with admiral, he would have bussed you on page 4 when that wagon built on you. Instead he just ignored the wagon completely. Actually, that can still be scum. OK this team works.

Nhammen has never done anything except follow the town's opinion. He gets on the major wagons, never leading or hammering them, and has generally the same reads as the majority.

That indicates him as scum to me; I don't see any effort at all to find scum in any of his posts.

Ummm.. what? I just ISOed myself to see, and I saw multiple posts of mine that contradict your case. If you want to make a case based on not remembering any scumhunting, then you should ISO first to make sure your memory isn't faulty.

I guess my questions to people are:

1) do people think the dcl wagon was all town? if not who is scum out of me, cooldog, gork?

2) Do people think the tmt wagon was all town? If not who is scum out of bro, jmo, hoopla?

No I don't think either wagon was all town. It is possible that (2) is all town, but I don't think so. For (1) I'm leaning you, but it could be any of you 3. For (2) I'm thinking jmo especially after ISOing myself and seeing my D1 case against him.

Don't remember if I posted anything that was lost.

vote: nhammen

I think you gave a reason for your vote. Something about no real impact from me (my words, cuz I don't remember yours). I responded by saying that there are multiple players that haven't had any impact on this game, including yourself.

Do people specifically think gorckat is town? I really don't see why he hasn't got any votes on him.

I'd rather lynch hoopla out of hoopla/nhammen if it does come down to those two.

I'd hope it doesn't come down to the two of us. As for gorck, I don't have a townread on him. I think that because of my current townreads, and because of vote counts, at least one of you and gorck has to be scum.

[nhammen]

Oh and the tigers ate my vote on Admiral.
VOTE: Admiral

[nhammen]

Although, after a bit of thought, I could easily pursue a jmo wagon as well.

[nhammen]

I'm fine with nhammen lynch. Sid you claim?

This looks like intent to hammer, so I will state that I am not DCL's partner. Although, I am kinda surprised at this, since an ISO and of you and ctrl-f for my name shows that you have only mentioned me twice before. So, where does this come from?

Oh and the tigers ate my vote on Admiral.
VOTE: Admiral

this vote is silly.

May I ask why?

[nhammen]

I was nearly lynched D1 and Nhammen was pretty obvious throughout.

I wasn't obvious to most players until D3, when I held onto my cooldog "scumread" from D1 for too long, after it had become obvious that he was town. In addition to my low impact catching up with me, the hoops I jumped through to justify my cooldog read were deadly. But all of my "scumreads" had either been confirmed or lynched, so he was the only one left. That's why scum should always have some scumreads that wont be lynched. These can be the distractions and allow you to have some impact on the game.

I must say that if Nhammen didn't vote me D1 this game would have gone entirely differently. I had to do a risky gambit because of that because I knew that after I get lynched if anyone analyzed the wagon they'd know Nhammen was scum instantly.

I'm confused about this comment. How would I be known to be scum?

BTW, I'm surprised you lasted as long as you did. With a claim like that, I would have expected more people than just Rob to disbelieve you. And you were even able to convince him before we killed him! You did pretty good with that claim.

Also, the way you kept hinting at having more info was really scummy. I very rarely see slow reveals like that from town. As I said earlier in the game, "long drawn out claims are indicative of scum."