Mini Normal 1460 - Normalville Mafia (GAME OVER)

[Lucky2u]

Why hello all! So since this is 37 pages in, I will probably just skim the last few pages. Here is an interesting exercise though, why don't some of you sum up the game from your POV? What is said and who it's said by could be informative...

[Lucky2u]

ALSO! I think I just found a connection, think about this: If RD is scum, wouldn't he avoid the thread as soon as his wagon started dying and town was being voted so an not to distract from the lynch? If RD is scum, then PV is town, and I think Elyse is town too because of RD's fencesitting on a potential vote following her claim.

I agree with the avoiding after wagon is dying because I've done that like 3 times before as scum. It usually works for me though, never been called out on it.

Hi Lucky.

Summary:
Scum is PV/RD/You

What do you think?

I have to say, I am not a fan of the me as scum theory. I have to look back and see what my previous slot owner was doing that garnered that, but it won't really make a difference since I am not him.

[Lucky2u]

I have to say, I am not a fan of the me as scum theory. I have to look back and see what my previous slot owner was doing that garnered that, but it won't really make a difference since I am not him.

Why do you need to look at what your previous slot owner was doing?

Mostly for reads. I know I am town, so I need to see if the way he acted drew legit suspicion or if it would only make sense for scum to be attacking him. From what I read though, he did nothing outlandish or obvious that could be a scum tell. It means that the people on him had bad reasons, either because they are hunting badly or are scum trying to divert attention. I actually like my previous owner's assessment of red and in his honor I will probably keep pushing that wagon.

[Lucky2u]

UNVOTE:

I apologize, I've never replaced into a game this far along and it's taking me a long time to go through it but I can confidently make an unvote here because I don't see Red Dragon as the most scummy here. More on this to follow today.

P-Edit: I suppose that vote was to shock me into showing up, but I've been here.

[Lucky2u]

Are we set on the current wagons? After spending some time with the thread I have a question about the Baezu claim. Why is noone jumping on her for fumbling it? First making a claim, then conveniently getting role blocked, and then forgetting who she investigated. The mod PMed her to correct her? I don't really believe that a mod would do that, or atleast I wouldn't. Also the way she told the thread that if you call her out on that scummy appearing action it's only because your scum, is suspect as hell. She of course then followed it up by actually doing it on the people who did.

Also the whole thing with the way Miss Stranger has a point system bothers me. It's kind of like "Hey look how town I am! I have charts and a point system, no scum would do this!". It's dangerous because I assume she does it when town and scum and that she must never get called out as scum because of it.

[Lucky2u]

@PV I ISO'd her and while I am not trusting it on face value, she promised to prove it with a vig kill right? So let her prove it. We'll have one confirmed town, assuming the scum don't NK her tonight. Also, I hate when people breadcrumb with secret coded messages. NOBODY EVER SEES IT, and you use it as proof that you are town later like it's solid evidence but there is nothing stopping scum from doing it too.

[Lucky2u]

Clearly you misunderstood, it's HOW you are doing it that bothers me. My point is valid.

[Lucky2u]

Well if they role block her, that leaves you open right? Either way, it should be a good day tomorrow.

I understand why admitting a mistake would seem town, but I can also see a scum possibility of it being a fumbled plan and not a town slip.

Still, the situation is not dire enough to risk lynching a cop so I have to back off from this.

[Lucky2u]

Read from this post to Chernobyl's post in 805, you will see lucky is scum.

Everyone else who posts bar sunny who proddodges talks about the claim(s) Chernobyl doesn't. The reason this is so bad is because this is something as town you want to discuss and figure out. He left everyone else to figure out what to do with the claim(s) and that isn't town.

Lynch Lucky please.

That's not very nice.

Grim, Baezu, I agree with that theory partially. Yes scum would want to switch the wagon when it gets close but they do it when it's close to lynching a buddy or a target that they strategically want dead later. Eager town like to switch wagons when their ADD kicks in and they see something shiny (scummy) somewhere else.

[Lucky2u]

So the claims now are doc, cop, and JOAT?

[Lucky2u]

Didn't like because it's mechanical right? Humor a newer player and explain what and why that is a scum read.

[Lucky2u]

Instead of "probably" X shot doc, why don't we ask him instead? Don't say bye to me yet, I have three more people to piss off before I'm dead.

Concerning grim. First paragraph, I'm not allowed to be optimistic about the future? I don't understand your complaint. Do you want me to be strict and business like rather that have fun playing this game? If happiness and sarcasm become banned here I am deleting my account right now.

You are totally right about that second paragraph though, indecisiveness should be punished.

VOTE: lucky2u

Your third point however is again non sense. I hate the appearing town logic many people have on this site. Of course I want to appear town, I AM town. I actively avoid trying to appear scum. So far my track record as town proves I am doing it badly. Don't worry, you'll see when I flip.

[Lucky2u]

Instead of "probably" X shot doc, why don't we ask him instead? Don't say bye to me yet, I have three more people to piss off before I'm dead.

Concerning grim. First paragraph, I'm not allowed to be optimistic about the future? I don't understand your complaint. Do you want me to be strict and business like rather that have fun playing this game? If happiness and sarcasm become banned here I am deleting my account right now.

You are totally right about that second paragraph though, indecisiveness should be punished.

VOTE: lucky2u

Your third point however is again non sense. I hate the appearing town logic many people have on this site. Of course I want to appear town, I AM town. I actively avoid trying to appear scum. So far my track record as town proves I am doing it badly. Don't worry, you'll see when I flip.

WTF? this is the third game in a row with a self vote!!! Do you people not realize how anti town that is?!

Don't have a cow man...

UNVOTE:

Yeesh!

[Lucky2u]

Wait

Why did you protect Grim and not the claimed cop PV?

Correct me if I am wrong but didn't the JOAT say he protected the cop claim? Clearly PV knew that the JOAT would do exactly that and saw no reason to do it himself. Either that or it was a scum slip. I wonder which is more likely...

[Lucky2u]

VOTE: PV

Makes sense and I like a wagon that isn't me.

[Lucky2u]

There us no reason to mass claim, but I'll do it anyway because I am a vanilla

We were partially right with our lynch... He was lying about being a doc. It's a shame he didn't tell the truth from the start. Slaander... Your call for a mass claim seems weird with there clearly being one role or less left for town. It strikes me as someone who wants to show how town they are because noone accuses the guy who calls for a claim right? It's a slip up that is out of place.

[Lucky2u]

I am being read scum by pretty much everyone but on the bright side, atleast those people admit that I should be lynched tomorrow and not today

Here is the absolute minimal base theory as to why Massclaim is good for town;
The game of Mafia is based on an uninformed majority vs the informed minority thus proving information is power. By massclaiming, the uninformed become more informed and thus stronger.

that base theory is thrown out the window when we've lost two PRs and have one other claim out there. At this point the only information the minority have over the majority is they know who is on their team. They don't know who or if there is a last PR and we are offering to give them that information so they can choose to kill the odd cop claim, or this potentially other PR. If they are good they can kill two birds in one night by claiming that anyone who says they are a PR is lying and getting us to lynch them. I know if I was a PR in this situation I would claim vanilla, not for the sake of saving my own butt, but because I am more useful hidden. In the scenario that we do get a PR claim, what is the plan then? If it's something passive like a bulletproof or something, we have gained nothing. Whether it's coming from a town or not, I don't like the idea of outing our last PR. Here is a twist... Miss Stranger actually agreed with that before.

810

@Slandaar:
No, just no. Outing more power roles in the face of the scum roleblocker will simply render everyone vanilla townie. Massclaim will likely soon happen, but not today.

1044

Will catch up when I can. Slandaar already explained why mass claim is good, listen to him.

I really don't see what's changed. How is outing a power role different now then it was then, especially since we don't know if it's a power role that can give us info and there is still a roleblocker. It's not like we can test the claimer to see if he is telling the truth (not without killing him anyway).

[Lucky2u]

that's interesting. I've heard Slandaar be called obvious town. Do you mind if I ask why you have him as conflicted?

[Lucky2u]

Wasn't expecting that. You mind sharing your insights on your neighbors from the private thread? Do you think there is a Scum in there?

[Lucky2u]

Eh I know Grim and Strangers claims but feel it bad etiquette to claim for them. Definitely those who don't know need to wait for them.

Lucky, do YOU think one of the neighbours is scum?

Well my short experience on the site is that mods love to put scum in neighboring relationships. I have no idea how the neighbors were decided this game though so it could be random, Idk. I ask you because I wanted to see if you were thinking one of your neighbors was scum, and I hope your not town reading them solely because they are your neighbors.

Where are we at with the claiming? Let's not test the mom's leniency with the deadline and get moving.

[Lucky2u]

EBWOP: "mod's " thank you auto correct

[Lucky2u]

I didn't dodge the question, I answered. When I asked it originally, you reflected the question back at me, so there is some irony in you accusing me of that.

[Lucky2u]

For the lawls

VOTE: ztife

[Lucky2u]

--hahahahahahahaha

Oh we're back. Sorry I was laughing all night.

[Lucky2u]

Ok so now we lynch salamander and win right?

[Lucky2u]

Ah yes, the for the lawls post coming back to bite me. To be honest, I was a little tired of the inactivity here. If you notice the last post before my hammer was me and since noone bothered to post between them, I hammered to move things along. Did I really think he was scum? Not really. I got lucky (fitting given the name huh?) and look! I got what I wanted. People playing again.

As for why I threw it on to Slandaar... Well if you notice I didn't vote him did I? Yet his reaction to me even joking about it was to quick vote me in anger.

[Lucky2u]

Oh? In what way does that order of events not work.

[Lucky2u]

I didn't suggest that, you're putting words in my mouth. I didn't say why I "chose" you. But since you want to know... I just don't like you that much. I didn't think you'd actually respond with a vote on me, but that's fine.

[Lucky2u]

That I wanted your reaction, a common mafia tactic. The confusion seems to be in that post I was answering the why of the action, not the why of the who.

[Lucky2u]

I'll be here actually doing things this upcoming weekend

Ironic that the post announcing it, does nothing at all.

[Lucky2u]

No worries mate, I'm just poking fun

[Lucky2u]

Also, Lucky, if you could explain to me why you did hammer Ztife when he hadn't claimed that would be good too. You don't think it wise to demand a claim before hammer?

Stu can you tell me your thoughts on the neighbour hood qt and post them in this thread please.

Nope. As I said the day was dragging, there was little activity, and I was throwing caution to the wind. If it gets me lynched today, so be it. At least I got discussion moving, and a vanilla for a goon is alright in my book.

[Lucky2u]

So there are probably 2 anti-town left right?

[Lucky2u]

I assume an explanation is coming why you changed your mind?

And yes people need to post because my mislynch will be due to inactivity more than more scummy behavior.

[Lucky2u]

You complain about inactivity, and yet you don't have a vote down. Why is this? Are you actually trying to find scum or are you only posting to appear active? I think it's the latter. I've seen a few posts of yours that I don't like, so I don't believe this will be a mislynch. Also, care to explain that self-vote earlier? Was that also for the lawls?

I read this and tried to refute it in my mind a couple of times but you are largely right, I haven't been scum hunting and that's what will get me lynched if it happens. I'll try to get at least a reads list in today and adjust my laziness this game.

On that note. I think what shocked me about your vote is you went from thinking my hammer was town, to saying Slandaar could have a case but you want to hear it, to voting me like you had been on me all along.

[Lucky2u]

Stupid man - I agree with Slandaar here. As scum in the past I've done the very thing stupendous did here and raised a case against someone then voted for another. It was because I was raising the case against my partner for WIFOM in case one of us flipped. Probably scum.

Slandaar - since I've got here he tunneled me first day on scene and then votes PV, tunneled me the next day and votes ztife. One led to mislynch and the other was right on target. I think he is town because what I see happening is he is pushing me and then seeing the scum come out when they feel safe.

Shamrock - I like his interactions during the ztife wagon. Reads town.

Grim - who is this guy?

CDB - I always get town reads from this guy when he is in a game, I think I remember seeing him scum once during the last marathon. I'm putting him at null until I look closer at him.

Sunny - need to look closer here as well. Null.

[Lucky2u]

Grim - who is this guy?

How much of the game have you read Lucky?

It was a joke because he hasn't been here for almost two weeks.

[Lucky2u]

@Stupendous. First allow me to apologize for "Stupid Man". I have been playing mostly from mobile and that was an autocorrect. I had no idea what you were talking about until I went back and saw it. Second, I was referring to your obvscum read of the Red Dragon slot inhabited now by CDB. I shouldn't have said you were making a case, but it is certainly the opinion you expressed as Slandaar has pointed out. Following on that line... Slandaar's list has the three people he wants to lynch last and you made a list copying him but I am not in your bottom three, Sunny, CDB, and Grim are. Why is your vote still on me then and not them? Further more, the RD slot you think is obvscum is apparently not redeemed by CDB who occupies it because you have him at #6. So you still think that slot is scummy, even MORE than me, but you vote me?

[Lucky2u]

Hey grim welcome back! Not a fan of that vote, but good to see you.

[Lucky2u]

Sorry been in the middle of a move but I am back up and running now, let me catch up

[Lucky2u]

Wasn't expecting that. You mind sharing your insights on your neighbors from the private thread? Do you think there is a Scum in there?

Upon re-reading: His "wasn't expecting that" sounds incredibly forced. Actually, the entire post does.
Hmm. Maybe this means he already knew about the neighbourhood, but it could also be just scum trying to act natural on a new piece of information, and in trying to do so, failing.
My townread on both of my neighbours is too strong at this point to entrtain any other idea, SunnyDays is town because of the slip, and Shamrock... I remeber I liked Shamrock for his 1038. Doesn't read like a bus, as opposed to CDB's 1096.

Thus POE also leads me to CDB (see also post 1045). Should look into his role in the Ztife lynch more carefully,b ut it looks like a perfectly plausible bus to me. He was promising material on another person but couldn't be bothered, and just set his target on someone who he knew was gonig to flip scum at a time where CDB himself needed the towncred badly. The fact he realized this is evident through him aplogizing for RD's behavior.

Exactly how does it sound "forced"? It's text on a screen. You may have read it in your mind as forced, but that was genuine reaction from me because I've never played a normal game with neighbors in it.

[Lucky2u]

I think we all agree on Lucky2u being scum, he doesn't even retort to anything anymore himself. CDB is the other one. Lynch them and town wins this game.

Man you guys are going to be disappointed when I flip town. Seems like you have made up your mind.

I'll throw my vote here until otherwise moved. VOTE: Stupendous Man

[Lucky2u]

counting this one? One

[Lucky2u]

Your argument is that the interaction at 161 between Ztife and BP (Stu's slot) is proof that Stu is town because why? They were arguing about a no lynch logic that BP has and why it was bad. No one was agreeing with BP, and Ztife probably didn't want to be dragged down with this guy who was advocating a NL. Hell, I haven't been on the site long but even I know that NL is not a popular day 1 move. If I were scum I would have started bussing my partner as soon as they brought that up so I don't get tied to it or seem like I was allowing it.

[Lucky2u]

What about that post looks like a bus to you exactly? Nobody else was attacking BP with the intensity of Ztife

Well I guess my real point was that, as Slandaar said, there is no reason to say it CANT be a bus with 100 percent accuracy. It's possible it was for the motivation I just gave, and it's possible it wasn't. I want to know why you think there is no way it was a bus.

[Lucky2u]

I don't recall saying there is "no way" it was a bus. I just think it's very unlikely that Ztife, particularly as a fairly inexperienced player, would come out of the gate guns blazing on his scumbuddy.

Why do you think it's unlikely? In My very first scum experience I did that day 1 page 1. It was only my 3rd ever game and I was still in my 2nd newbie game. Inexperienced players are wild cards. Tell me why Ztife specifically wouldn't do that, not why an inexperienced player wouldn't.

[Lucky2u]

UNVOTE:

i lost my confidence in that vote awhile ago, might as well make it official.

[Lucky2u]

So who we lynching? Where is everyone?

[Lucky2u]

I'll sheep you if you don't hammer me Slandaar

[Lucky2u]

I'll forgive you because you have no meta with me, but all the things I am being called "fake" for, are genuine. You can lynch me and find out, or take my word for it. Doesn't matter, you'll know in the end.

[Lucky2u]

I'll sheep you if you don't hammer me Slandaar

Who do you think is scum? who is town?

My gut tells me CDB is one because I feel he is a more active town player. I don't know where he is now, did I miss a v/la announcement? The second one could be anyone but me grim and Slandaar.

[Lucky2u]

I chose you because you spent two days focused on me at the start, and that had less than endeared you to me. I didn't really seek your lynch though because I didn't confidentelly read you as scum. I just liked you least. I also wanted to get a reaction from you to get a better read on you. Since that post though, I've moved you to pretty solid town. What I got from it is that you don't let shit go and hunt like a good townie. I don't have meta to know if you are like this scum, but I don't think you bussed ztife so there is that.

[Lucky2u]

Huh... I just looked back. You didn't vote ztife... I'll look into this more if you say why, but you could also tell me now if you feel like it.

[Lucky2u]

Thank you for your service temp mod

[Lucky2u]

guys lets lynch lucky

Totally. Let's get that guy. VOTE: Shamrock

[Lucky2u]

@stupendous: I haven't been prod dodging as of this point, I don't understand how you could think that

I'll be on a comp later slandaar

You still didn't give him your thoughts though.

[Lucky2u]

I would like to hear at least one post from him first, but I'll probably join Slandaar.

[Lucky2u]

VOTE: CDB

[Lucky2u]

Better to lock in a lynch I suppose.

[Lucky2u]

VOTE: CDB

Lucky tomorrow.

...even if CDB is scum?

[Lucky2u]

... yes? The most likely scum team IMO is you/CDB.

Ah ok...

...wait. So if CDB turns out to be town, then logically you were wrong about the team. So... do I get lynched tomorrow if he was town too?

[Lucky2u]

Welcome back everyone! How did you all sleep? I slept great.

[Lucky2u]

And yet you were the one that started the CDB wagon, asked me to switch my vote, and were confident that he was scum.

Either you are town, which I doubt and you were wrong about someone who you said you "more confident" was scum than me, or your scum and you "let me off" to be an easy lynch today.

If your town, you are about to lead the town to two wrong wagons in a row. Sit back and let someone else try today.

[Lucky2u]

In order: Shamrock, Stu, SunnyDays, Lucky, Grim

[Lucky2u]

I'm at work but had to LOL here real quick about the trouble my putting myself on the list is causing it. It was a joke, and at the same time stating that I feel grim to be solid town to me. I'll come back with more tonight. In the mean time, don't be so rigid, have a sense of humor.

[Lucky2u]

Yea I can, because it was never scum play. It was a joke when I said it, and it's still a joke now. How was it not obvious? It's ridiculous to vote for yourself, hence why it is humorous. The fact that you are so rigid that you don't see a joke a for a joke doesn't read town. It reads scum. Why? Because you are so focused on being town on the outside that you forget to be human and lose natural reactions to sarcasm and humor. I, on the other hand, am relaxed. Even if I shot in the dark, I have a 50 percent chance of hitting scum. I'm not shooting in the dark of course...

To answer your question though, his interaction with me just before thread lock rang scum for me. Scum aren't stupid. I want my fellow two townies here to stop and think for a second about a situation where I am town. The scum know I am an easy lynch today, killing me yesterday would have made no sense. They sensed the opportunity to get CDB and took it, so they could win with me today. Stu led that wagon, and Shamrock hammered it once it was obviously popular with town. There is your scum team in action.

[Lucky2u]

@stu actually that post does prove precedence of me joking in this game so we can null my earlier joke as not scum now. Also, you like to find evidence to fit your opinion rather than work the other way around don't you?

@shamrock ... What? How does that imply you would need mind control powers?

[Lucky2u]

I thought I did Stu, which question did I leave unanswered?

[Lucky2u]

It's ok, you probably got so used to saying that yesterday that it was instinct.

[Lucky2u]

BTW, That is an example of more humor.

[Lucky2u]

Your right grim.... Me and Stu are a team. I give in. Let's lynch him first though, for my amusement. /endsarcasm

[Lucky2u]

Your right grim.... Me and Stu are a team. I give in. Let's lynch him first though, for my amusement. /endsarcasm

The fun never stops with you, does it?

Never.

[Lucky2u]

VOTE: Stupendous

[Lucky2u]

Or they haven't hammered yet because you are scum....

Grim, me and Stu are scum, so let's kill my partner and you can kill me tomorrow.

[Lucky2u]

So with no quick hammer, either me or Stu are scum. Since I know I am town, I am fairly pleased at the moment to know that I have indeed successfully found the scum. Even if you guys mess this up and lynch me, I can die happy know that atleast I was right.

[Lucky2u]

AND WHY ARE YOU ALL ACTING SO GODDAMN SCUMMY ALL OF A SUDDEN???

because it turns out we all are scum and you are the only townie left.

[Lucky2u]

On a serious note, Shamrock tomorrow once Stu flips scum. It's a given.

[Lucky2u]

Don't worry Grim, you'll see that its not a scum tell for me once the game is over. I make jokes all the way to my death.

[Lucky2u]

Do I get a high five for being right about Stu tomorrow?

[Lucky2u]

*crosses fingers* win or lose time...

[Lucky2u]

What's that mean?

[Lucky2u]

2 down, 1 to go!

I'd like to see the flip before we say that. Also, aren't we going after you tomorrow?

[Lucky2u]

Hmm... LyLo is it?

[Lucky2u]

Alright Sunny... Shamrock.... Which one of you is it? Come clean and we can all be friends. Empty your pockets! Who has the gun?

[Lucky2u]

Sunny? You here buddy?

[Lucky2u]

My impression is that Shamrock is waiting to vote me because he wants to see sunny do it first and he can quick hammer and win.

[Lucky2u]

VOTE: Shamrock

Hey hey... no need to be rude.

Let's face it Sunny, the only reason I lived is because I came across so scummy that they wanted me to make it to LyLo to lose it for town. I already did explain everything that Shamrock is accusing me of, just go read my ISO. Shamrock is stating case aggressively because like most bad liars he thinks it will help him get his point across and influence you better.

It's up to you Sunny, do what you know to be right.

[Lucky2u]

Damn it!

GG sunny, good move. Shamrock... We were played

[Lucky2u]

At least I lived and now people know I was town

[Lucky2u]

But seriously who chooses an avatar that has the shutterstock caption still under it

Not me

I rock the bunny Knight.

[Lucky2u]

LOL. I really should've tried harder, but I knew Matt had already won the game for us.

@Lucky- You really shouldn't be so scummy as town. It only helps mafia. Things might have gone differently if you didn't play so scummy.

That's some Sage advice there buddy, why didnt I think of that? /endsarcasm

For some reason I only appear town when I am playing scum. Everytime I play as town, I appear scum. If I knew how to appear town as both I would already have done it.