Open 16 - Vengeful Mafia (game over) - before 414

[Patrick]

/double confirmage
Let's not mess this up guys

[Patrick]

Vote: Fircoal.

He's probably scum of some sort.

[Patrick]

Yep, you're probably the scum goon, but I'm pretty confident that Fircoal is the GF here.

[Patrick]

I'm the cop! Voting me is a terrible idea.

[Patrick]

Basically I was echoing the joke I had with MBF in vengeful 1 (open 7) and seeing whether anyone would try and jump me for it.

Fircoal comes across as overely chummy and spammy in this game, not sure as of yet how much that means. Consistently jokes about the mod being scum for some reason. I will read up on one or two of his other games tomorrow.

ACfan hasn't done much, only thing of note was a seemingly random vote on me, challenging me to give him a good reason not to be voting me, as if I might have one at this stage of the game.

Nothing much to note from the other two, which is understandable so early. IH seems to be acting sensible. I agree that we shouldn't put anyone at 2 votes now. Discussion = teh win in venge, and the two games I've played were pretty stark examples (first of town winning through lots of discussion, second of town losing due to no discussion). That's why I'm being overanalytical at this point btw.

Happy with my vote for now. Question for Fircoal: Do you prefer playing as town or as scum? Why?

[Patrick]

I've seen PJ ask that question to ppl in certain games early on (though he usually asks everyone a different question). Just to try and get a better idea of the person you're assessing. Also if you're one of these guys that gets excited about being scum, that might show in your early posting.

[Patrick]

a. quicklynch, if we lynch a townie, he can vig kill whoever placed the final vote

Plz elaborate on why you think this would help the town.

[Patrick]

I'm sure you can do better than that. You're saying that you posted some totally random idea, but didn't think about it at all first?

[Patrick]

True, scum can't win by quicklynching on day 1, but that doesn't mean that the town should be

aiming

to lynch a townie. Lynching scum today is more desirable, and could even win the game outright if it's the godfather we lynch.

[Patrick]

I think that's a strange thing to say. It's like as soon as someone does something suspicious, you've decided that the someone questioning him must be bussing him if he's the goon. That's very soon after you'd declared that I'm most likely town.

An interesting thing to note is that in the two completed venge games, no scum have actually used that classic venge strategy. My guess is that's because everyone is ready for it.

[Patrick]

Difficult to play a 5 player game where Twito still doesn't have proper internet and acfan isn't posting despite the fact he should be back by now.

[Patrick]

I'm getting ac1983fan if he doesn't pick up his prod in 24 hours.

O_o He'd better be scared.

[Patrick]

Zindy, I'm not scum k? Or maybe you already know that?

[Patrick]

Why, Patsy, why aren't you scum? I wanted to get my revenge... *sad*

Blame voidycakes, I would have been happy to get a scumrole >.>
Do you have your role yet btw?

[Patrick]

Heh. So Zindy, what do you think of IH's insistence that acfan (now you) is scum?

[Patrick]

I could see a Zindaras/IH group, with probably IH as the GF. The only worrying thing is that implies that my two allies are Twito and Fircoal.

[Patrick]

One thing I didn't like much by acfan was post 49 which could have been a very crude attempt by noobscum to get us to get us to lynch some quickly.

IH voted him for this, then in post 58 made an almost comical attempt to link me to acfan, which may be because he knows acfan would show up scum (presumably goon). He continues to say in a joking manner that acfan is scum, later suggesting to Twito that an acfan/Fircoal pairing may exist.

Enter Zindybuns. Doesn't really mind what IH is doing, calls me town, says that the pairing is Fircoal/Twito. While his reasons make sense in a narrow way, he ignores the context (Twito is almost without internet access, Fircoal always spams up his games). The second he may not have known if he hasn't played with Fircoal, the first he did know. Later calls IH misguided, and pressed the attack on Fircoal and Twito, seeming to show less patience than he did in the last vengeful game where he was town.

Thus, I could see IH/Zindaras, with IH most likely being the GF. Of course, I'm not set on it, and we probably need Twito replacing. I don't have much read on Fircoal either. However, I prefer this theory to the theory that Twito/Fircoal are scum together.

[Patrick]

I don't like this line of thinking from Patrick in post 94

He doesn't exactly reinforce anything, or commit to anything, just kind of throws out a few ideas. I understand there hasn't been much to go on, but it's just been more putting things out there and see how the rest of the town reacts to it.

You're pretty desperate there IH? I haven't set anything in stone, and it would be stupid to do so this early. However, I quite clearly stated that I believe Zindaras/IH is more likely than Twito/Fircoal. I believe it is the most likely pairing at this point. Yes, it's useful to see reactions too, but I'm quite clearly laying out my thoughts at this time.

So.... if you think an IH/Zindaras pairing is more likely..... why is your vote on Fircoal, who you admit to have not much of a read on?

I don't fancy putting someone at -1 right now.

[Patrick]

Psh. Try and at least pretend you're pro town IH.

[Patrick]

But seriously IH, are you suggesting I've been more noncommital than anyone else? I've committed to my top 2 suspects and given reasons for my suspicions, and I've added more content than anyone else. What else exactly do you want me to commit to? This sounds like a desperate attempt to discredit your attacker.

[Patrick]

Show how I've been noncommital. I stated who my top suspects are. What else do you expect? The reason I made the flippant post about trying to pretend you're pro town is because you are acting in your open 4 manner when you were scum. You're looking for the smallest things you can nitpick on your attacker, hoping to confuse or distract people from the real scum.

When I place a random vote, I generally don't move it until I see a place I want to put it. I've been hesitating about putting someone at -1 in this game. However, if it forces you to answer my questions,

Unvote.

Now answer my question without any of your scummy dodging, about how I've been noncommital. Do you think it's unreasonable to be not totally sure on page 4? What is noncommital about me saying, "I think IH and Zindaras are the most likely scumteam, with IH as the godfather".

[Patrick]

The main part is not actually just a summary, because there are opinions in there, some of which were reasons for suspecting IH/Zindaras (acfans crude attemps, your attempt to link me to acfan, Zindaras's seemingly oppotunistic attack on Twito, seeming to show less patience than last game where he was town, that kind of thing). As for the last bit, what can I say? You know very well my writing style, so it couldn't have actually come as a shock to you. And I think it's up to me when I use an IMGEOY or FoS or whatever I like. What is said matters more than some bolded finger of suspicion. You can assume that if I made a case on you and Zindaras, and say it's my preferred scum team atm, that my finger, eye, hand of suspicion is pointing at you two.

[Patrick]

We need Fircoal, Twito and Zindaras to comment on what's been happening. I lose the feel of a game if we're constantly having long breaks in between content posts.

[Patrick]

No it isn't. Last game you wanted more discussion before trying to force the issue. Here you got impatient earlier, when there's not much on the table at all.

Twito is posting non content in alot of games at present. I wouldn't mind seeing him replaced actually.

[Patrick]

Is your internet back to stable access yet? Because so far I don't remember any content posted by you in this game. I'm seeing it in other games too, last night you posted in about 5 games in little italy in quick succession, all spam posts. What is the point of playing like that while insisting that you don't want to be replaced? In a 5 player game, we can hardly just let one player slip by.

[Patrick]

Vote: Replace.

HAMMAH HAMMAH!

[Patrick]

Ok that's fair enough I suppose but stay with us.

[Patrick]

Fircoal, if only one out of IH and Zindaras were scum, which do you think would be more likely and why?

[Patrick]

Hmm. In my last post I asked him to say who he thought was scummier out of you and Zindaras. Whichever way he went on that, he would be following popular opinion to some extent.

[Patrick]

My feeling there is the same as yours Twito. I still see an IH/Zindaras pair, and nothing they've done has really changed my mind. After that it's Fircoal, who is pretty much following me around, though it doesn't seem that scummy in light of the fact he always seems to play that way. I'm currently thinking he's a townie being used as an easy target by the scum.

[Patrick]

Did anyone else notice this? I don't understand why it's been dismissed... we just kind of dropped it when everyone went lurkerishly.

It hasn't been dropped has it?

I don't understand why you think this connects us, except for the Venge strategy. Zindy wasn't really being all that hasty either....

I've explained several times the link I can see. You attack acfan/Zindaras. You make an attempt to link me to him that doesn't make sense. You then suggest that Fircoal may be linked to him. This seems to me a reasonable scum strategy if he is scum, trying to link other people to him because you know he would come up goon. The attempt to link me to him is what set the alarm bells off the most. Zindaras also doesn't have much to say about you, he goes after easier targets, calling you "misguided".

I love your attempts to discredit me IH. So transparent. I already explained to you how I vote did I not? I left my random vote on, as I often do, until I decide I want to vote for someone else. At that point, I wasn't comfortable putting someone at -1, so I didn't change. Simple really.

Why does it make sense to you? Throwing out ideas and not following through with them is scummy. Why? That way they can see how the town feels, and follow along with them. While I've been reading.... I'm getting a scummeh vibe from Patrick,

This is just more on the same pointless theme. I gave my top two suspects, again, what else do you think I should have committed to??

[Patrick]

Vote: IH

(lynch-1). I can't imagine what he's saying is coming from IHtown.

[Patrick]

So... why did you wait til now to put your vote on?

(Shrug) I just reached a good level of certainty. Turned it over in my mind and decided to do it.

= | Patrick's voting in this game is urking me... it doesn't seem natural.

How original.

[Patrick]

And this is?

What part of it didn't you understand. I cannot imagine you playing in this way as town.

Don't try to unsubstantiate how you've been voting with a comment that has nothing to do with it.

My voting hasn't been out of the ordinary.

[Patrick]

I must say that I'll have to agree with IH on this one. It doesn't sound like a town vote, and Zindy is more scummy than IH.

Why doesn't it sound like a town vote? He's desperately been trying to discredit me for a while now. Heck, he's been thrashing around trying to connect you to me. Zindy is more scummy than IH = your opinion, not an established fact.

[Patrick]

Because it doesn't sound like a town vote comment, and it might be that you want the day to be over with soon. Though I think it's too the point where I'm fairly sure they are both scum.

Saying that I don't think he'd be acting in this way if he was pro town is a suspicious comment? Why?

[Patrick]

Vote: IH (lynch-1). I can't imagine what he's saying is coming from IHtown.

That was more my vote post. I only made one significant comment there. I believe if he were town he would be looking for scum in a more objective way, rather than constantly trying to find anything he can to discredit me. That doesn't strike me as a pro town mindset from him.

[Patrick]

and I believe if you were town, your vote woulda been in your main post against me, not waiting a few posts later to put a vote on me.

And I believe you've played with me enough to know I'm a conservative voter, and thus you know that this doesn't mean anything. GG scum.

[Patrick]

You've played with me enough IH to know I don't vote hastily. I believe that discussion is more important than voting. One reason why it's obvious you're scum is because you're pretending not to know this and trying to make a big deal out of nothing. It's like you've just given up completely trying to fool me in this game.

[Patrick]

Haha, this is funny. Fircoalscum won't vote IH because he knows he'll get vigged and I won't vote IH because IH is obvobv town.

I'd say this is about as much evidence as we need that Zindaras is scum with IH. I cannot imagine he would be saying this as town.

[Patrick]

Confess scumbags.

[Patrick]

Damn. I kind of thought there was no way Zindaras could be town with the tacky posts he was making, but I had him with the wrong partner. IH managed to look extremely scummy to me; he was basically attacking me for stuff that he knows I do normally. No idea why he would do that as town.

I suppose it shows, conversation needed to win at vengeful. Fircoal - you should try to be a bit more forthcoming with your own ideas. It is very difficult to discern the alignment of someone who posts hardly anything. Well done to the scum.

[Patrick]

Also, I played badly.

[Patrick]

I played badly, though. I was more sure about Zindy, I really should of voted him. But I just thought that IH had a higher chance of being scum than Twito

That's where the problem was. I was pretty sure Zindaras was scum - we could have lynched him day 1 and won, but IH had also done a great job on convincing me he was scum as well. With hindsight we should have just got Twito replaced.

[Patrick]

I'd have pushed harder for his replacement if I thought he was in the scumgroup.