Mini 1521: The Fall - Game Over

[Alduskkel]

Confirm.

@Mod: You should probably put the list of players in the OP.

[Alduskkel]

>Agree with reason for vote
>Vote for someone else

Vote: Hopkirk

But I was also considering iamausername for several different (silly) reasons and BolteAltamont because his avatar literally refers to a shadowy organization of highly questionable motives.

[Alduskkel]

Well, the vote was serious in that it was not random; as I said, if I had been voting "randomly," I would have voted iamausername or BolteAltamont.

@The-Duck: My reasons for voting for iamausername would have been silly. The Hopkirk vote is not silly in as much as it is not humorous. It's certainly the closest thing to "scummy" that I have right now.
Anyway, the only reason I explained about iamusername and BolteAltamont is because I came up with around 5 different RVS reasons to vote for iamusername (which is a borderline excessive amount) and because I went to the effort of googling VFD to double-check BA's avatar. In other words, both were on my mind a lot.

And anyway, I just tend to clarify too much anyway. You'll probably notice in the course of this game that I use a lot of parentheses. OTOH, I dislike repeating myself and I try to avoid creating pointless walls of text, so that cuts down on the amount of explaining I do. So it's some of both -- lots of explaining and not so much explaining.

At this point I'm just rambling though.

[Alduskkel]

What is this stuff about chickens and houses I don't even.

So, you put in some effort too make your random vote and decided against making that because someone continued on a joke but randomly voted somebody else?
Do you see scum motivation in his actions?

There's no particular scum motivation, rather it just seems like a bit of cognitive dissonance. Like how scumslips have no scum motivation.

Anyway,

Vote: Yiley

Has posted a lot but hasn't said much. Yes, it is page 2, but contrast what The-Duck and Hopkirk are posting to what Yiley is posting.

[Alduskkel]

JKLM, give me your read on Hopkirk.

[Alduskkel]

Ald look at my other two games that is my play style

You're not wrong, but at the same time I would prefer more than one-liners from you this game.

Its weird that you say you don't like RVS, but question the motives of the first one to try and break it?

Now what makes you think you were the first one to try to break the RVS?

However, Jake just came in the thread to make a comment on a joke instead of the other things that were going on. To me this feels like an attempt to prolong RVS, in which scum can easily hide and waste time without any risk of screwing up.

In practice, how do often do you think scum actually try to prolong the RVS? Have you ever seen this actually occur?

Anyway, that said,

Vote: Jake from State Farm

because keeping my vote on Yiley is pointless, and Jake doesn't seem townie yet (a lot of other people who I won't specify do).

[Alduskkel]

Who would you expect me to vote?

[Alduskkel]

1. I am not throwing suspicion on The-Duck, I will tell you that right now.
2. Jake is kind of useless right now relative to the amount of posting he's done.
3. Therefore I'm voting him.

[Alduskkel]

Also ald you are asking him a question and they way it is worded sounds like you are suspicious of him. So I may just be reading that the wrong way but that is what I'm seeing. There are people who have contributed less than jake and producing less content and such, like sonofzeus. If you want to vote someone up who hasn't posted much why not him?

Shrug. I have a weak townread on The-Duck.

Also, it's about content-to-post ratio. I wouldn't expect much content from people who haven't posted much at this stage of the game.

@Hopkirk: Why are you answering for me?

[Alduskkel]

Ald not sure if you ever played with me but my post to content is never in line. I'm
Gonna post 300+ posts this game and less then half will contain useful info

1. Nope.
2. Why?

[Alduskkel]

Son of a fuck this is going to be a game of walls isn't it.

Alright, hang on here then...

[Alduskkel]

Alright I'm definitely not going to respond to absolutely everything, walls are self-perpetuating unfortunately.
---

What votes shouldn’t be there: Slandaar and Aldusk don’t have good reasons.

I'm not voting you.

@The-Duck: Respond to post 57 please.
---
I feel like Hopkirk's case on emogirl would be good if emogirl were actually doing what he was accusing her of doing, but emogirl seems to be participating just fine so I see no issue there. At the same time Jake's case on Hopkirk doesn't work for me either. Personally I thought it was funny to respond to such a stupid argument in such a serious manner.
---

It would have been a bad reason for defending your vote with. This is because he seems to be one of the more experienced players of this game. Voting for him, then jokingly brushing off your vote saying it wasn't too serious but as a vote to get people talking sets off scum flags. It strikes me as a player not wanting to rock the boat too much and taking the safer more socially acceptable route. I feel at that time, there was no appropriate vote to place which induced pressure.

I don't really understand what you're saying here. In particular, are you speaking hypothetically starting at the phrase "voting for him"? Does "a player" refer to anyone in particular?

Why was there no appropriate place to put a pressure vote?
---
My overall thought right now is that discussion is too focused on Hopkirk and emogirl, and discussion is stale because a) it's all about the same topics and b) it's all the same people talking.

So I don't have a lot at this very moment to say but then again about half the playerlist hasn't said jack so by the time at least some of those people get around to saying something I'll have some better leads.

[Alduskkel]

You know, I literally did ask you some questions up there, though.

[Alduskkel]

@emogirl: Why?
@Yiley: Notwithstanding my defense, then?

[Alduskkel]

Yes, I feel so pressured right now. Look at me crumble.

[Alduskkel]

Why am I scum?

[Alduskkel]

Bit of a wall here. My apologies. I kept it light on quotes, though.
---
@emogirl: To address your case.

My Yiley vote was based on suspicion: active lurking is a scumtell. Sadly, it does appear that it is Yiley's meta to post like this, and I usually don't policy lynch (and Yiley hardly warrants one anyway).

I don't know how you concluded that my Jake vote is only a "prod" on him.

My scum hunting methodologies for Day 1 is as always to find the most neutral of players.

Thanks for telling all the scum that. Now they know exactly how to fool you.

If I appear neutral, it's because I don't have much in the way of scumreads at this moment, and I don't screw around with townreads unless it's either necessary (e.g. a townread of mine is going to get lynched), lylo, or I have so many I can use PoE.

Hopkirk's analysis is flawed, but he's not scummy for it. Wrong =/= scummy.

He fails to acknowledge that there are real reasons as to why Hopkirk is being wagoned on. He does not push Slandaar to reason his vote (which by the way, needs to happen), and he does not push Jake to reason his vote on Hopkirk, as he did raise good points as to why Jake's reasoning is flawed. Why take the time to start a defense of someone and not follow through? Again, it's to maintain neutrality.

Okay, let's look at who else has voted Hopkirk. There was greygnarl, whose reasoning was terrible. I did not mention this because it had already been said why. iamausername and I disagree about the scumminess of Hopkirk's attack on you, which I have implicitly said, though not explicitly until now.

There's nothing to say about Slandaar's vote, it was RVS and he moved it to JKLM anyway.

...and that's about it.

I don't really understand what you're saying here. In particular, are you speaking hypothetically starting at the phrase "voting for him"? Does "a player" refer to anyone in particular?

Why was there no appropriate place to put a pressure vote?

I want a response from you for why these questions were asked.

Clarification purposes. As I said, I couldn't understand what you were saying, but it seemed relatively important for me to understand since you mentioned me.

---
@Slandaar: Really no clue how you have a scumread on JKLM. The slot's as null as can be.
---
@The-Duck: IMO Hopkirk and I were the first ones to start breaking the RVS with our exchange. I'm wary of you trying to claim credit for it.

[Alduskkel]

Lol, your read on me reminds me if InflatablePie's read on me in Open 530. Speaking of which, I'm disappointed that emogirl never got around to metaing me, despite otherwise going to the trouble of posting a detailed case against me.

[Alduskkel]

Spoiler: emogirl's post

I don't know how you concluded that my Jake vote is only a "prod" on him.

Sorry, I was mistaken. Now that you mention your vote was not a prod, your reasoning make your posts inconsistent. Whether or not you think this is a good reason, it is for sure not

useless

. In fact, his case for Hopkirk kept escalating, and the only response you have for it was stating that Jake's case

doesn't work for you

. Keeping in mind that you are still voting for Jake, his new posts should have been mentioned with more detail. Especially since Hopkirk had a wagon with various reasons. This makes you appear to be throwing out votes without contributing much content for town. Wouldn't you consider this as

active lurking

? Which is a scum read according to you.

Your wording

I don't really understand what you're saying here.

I read as aggressive. Your previous post explains how it wasn't. This is all I'm going to say about that.

Thanks for telling all the scum that. Now they know exactly how to fool you.

How do you know that's not exactly what I want scum to believe? In fact, it's not too predict that reaction, as you probably only took 10 seconds to formulate that conclusion when you read my sentence and believed it. How do you know I didn't put thought into it when I posted? How do you know if I'm lying my teeth off right now trying to appear as a high and mighty douche bag? It's a mystery.

I'd like to see some evidence for how Jake's case on Hopkirk "kept escalating." Additionally, I did not "only" say that his case didn't work for me, given that you are ignoring the sentence that came directly after it.

And no, I'm not active lurking. Nice try though. I'm not going to quote every post where I've written content to prove you wrong, though.

As for the second part of the post -- so you're either lying as some "clever ploy" (in which case your initial attack on me makes no sense) or you're an idiot. Honestly, this just seems like being argumentative for the sake of being argumentative, because your responses are more rhetorical than anything else.

@Slandaar: Why are you so town? Also why is JKLM scum?

[Alduskkel]

zzz. This emogirl argument is annoying.

@The-Duck: My play here is like this because I'm currently lacking strong scumreads. I can't remember the last game where this happened, but I will point out that I think it's wrong to say that this matches my scum meta: in Open 521 I was pushing players too.
@iamausername: Haven't figured her alignment out yet. She's wrong, but I don't know if she's scummy for being wrong.

@emogirl: His case doesn't work for me. And a lot of his posts are kind of fluffy. Also, I'd rather not unvote without having somewhere to put it instead.

What posts aren't active lurking?
Well, these posts strike me as the ones with at least some significant content: 14, 36, 57, 62, 76, 133, 181, 201.

[Alduskkel]

Shouldn't you be trying to convince other people that I'm scum if you believe your case?

Trying to convince me that I'm scum is never going to work, for obvious reasons.

[Alduskkel]

If I'm scum and you're town then it's to your win condition to work as hard as possible to get me lynched.

[Alduskkel]

It's in my best interest to discern your alignment.

But I've noted that instead of responding to me you just tried to change the subject to what I should do.

[Alduskkel]

Uh, I'll just watch the votes pile in then.

[Alduskkel]

Yeah, there's no way that votecount is correct. Also, PeregrineV and BolteAltamont are due for prods, no?

[Alduskkel]

Except that you and emogirl are just lazily hanging out on my "wagon" of two votes without either pushing others to vote for me or really addressing my case meaningfully after my defense.

I can't tell if you guys are scum or just bad town.

[Alduskkel]

What are YOU doing for this game? I'm sitting here asking questions to try to prompt *something* to happen. Also, I DID address your points. The onus is on you to prove that I am active lurking, not on me to prove that I am not.

[Alduskkel]

lol

"flailing"

Flailing is barely even viable as a scumtell.

[Alduskkel]

Who else is scum? Also nice job not responding to 254.

[Alduskkel]

Who else is scum?

[Alduskkel]

I presumably have 1-2 scumpartners, unless you think I'm a Serial Killer. Also you have to actually prove that I am wrong, not just say it and act like it's a given that it's true.

[Alduskkel]

I will patronize terrible players. Why don't you work on being someone I won't patronize?

[Alduskkel]

I did make a proper post; if it's not a proper post, you have to prove that it wasn't.

If you get me lynched and I flip town, what do you do from there?

[Alduskkel]

You're tunneling.

Vote: JKLM

post 241 looks like lazy scum.

[Alduskkel]

If you've got a question and I haven't answered it already I'll answer it now.

[Alduskkel]

If you're insistent on semi-detailed explanations:
14: Trying to move out of the RVS, somewhat.
36: Answering The-Duck, pressuring Yiley.
57: Having meta'd Yiley, I come to the conclusion that he isn't scummy for the way he is posting. I question The-Duck. I vote Jake.
62: Clarification on The-Duck and Jake.
76: Questioning Hopkirk, explaining my read on The-Duck.
133: Explaining my thoughts on the cases on Hopkirk and emogirl. Prod The-Duck to answer questions. Ask emogirl questions. Give my thoughts on the state of the game.
181: Responding to emogirl's case on me. Questioning Slandaar, responding to The-Duck.
201: Similar stuff. Responding to emogirl's case more, still questioning Slandaar.

None of my votes have been "empty." They all serve a purpose, even the first vote on Hopkirk.

[Alduskkel]

You and your rhetoric.

[Alduskkel]

You're tunneling on me worse than Hiraki was in Open 530.

The difference is that he was obvtown. Haven't decided on you.

[Alduskkel]

But I'm not Town, so what's the point?

In any case I never stopped contributing to the game.

[Alduskkel]

emogirl, what's your read on Yiley? Converse question to Yiley.

[Alduskkel]

Yiley, what's your read on emogirl?

emogirl, town, scum, or null on Yiley. Go.

[Alduskkel]

Ah wait I guess you meant null.

[Alduskkel]

Well we talked in 58-62. And again in 66/76. And again again in 139-145.

Yiley's like a less active (but no less obtuse) version of you really.

[Alduskkel]

Are you denying that we were talking in that series of posts?

[Alduskkel]

My bad, 145 was at you. I just double iso'd myself and Yiley and I figured 144 wasn't important (it was).

Yiley's vote really isn't worth saying much about. I haven't dodged anything. I don't know what you mean by "attacking" you in that I have not yet said I have a scumread on you.

[Alduskkel]

I know why you're voting me. Durr.

[Alduskkel]

I'm not going to keep arguing with you if every time you just say, "No, you're wrong."

[Alduskkel]

What's inconsistent? I treat you and Yiley differently because you two act differently.

As for "contributing to the game" I refer you back to post 272 and that is my default response from now on until you respond to it.

[Alduskkel]

@Ald: Read on emogirl?

Like I said, I haven't figured out yet if she's scum or just bad town. On the one hand, she seems pretty sure of her case (townish) but on the other hand isn't trying to persuade other players as much as I'd expect (scummy). Tunneling can be town (naturally) or scum who have sort of tricked themselves into believing in a sense that the player they're tunneling really is scum.

Ideally I will figure out emogirl's alignment with time. I'm not going to say exactly what I'm looking for for obvious reasons.

[Alduskkel]

EG is town.

I know this is a bombshell for some of you so I feel that is all I should contribute for now as your minds may well explode if I post more!

Now how precisely did you reach that conclusion? Something I haven't seen yet?

Scum can tunnel, too.

[Alduskkel]

Well it's not going to change my read if you just say she's town.

[Alduskkel]

1. I'm not telling you my townreads unless they're important in some way.
2. I'm a sarcastic person. Deal with it. Besides, I've been responding to her anyway.
3. No, I'm not going to tell you I have a scumread on emogirl as of now. Obviously she will post in the future and those posts might be scummy. I'm not psychic, though, and you should know my current read on her.

How is emogirl fully correct when she hasn't fully addressed my defense?

[Alduskkel]

Her responses are ambiguous.

[Alduskkel]

I didn't expect you to trust me based on that post though...?

pedit: @Yiley obv

[Alduskkel]

@Ald: So you didn't seem to be pushing her much to be not ambiguous.

What makes you say that?

[Alduskkel]

@Hopkirk: You'll have to elaborate on that.

@emogirl: Yiley is only "active" in the sense that he posts a lot. Most of his posts are contentless.

Why can't the wagon on me be all town if I'm town?

You're basically suggesting I should have OMGUS'd if I'm town.

[Alduskkel]

The-Duck isn't on my wagon, and iamausername has 7 posts in a 333-post game.

[Alduskkel]

If he's not voting me he's not on my wagon.

What exactly do you want me to say? I've already responded to your case.

[Alduskkel]

Shrug. I'm aware by this point that I'm not going to get you to change your vote, and I dislike spamming the thread.

I will say that JKLM absolutely does count, but again, if I expect to convince you then I'm just in for a world of frustration since you're tunneling and literally everything I do is scummy.

[Alduskkel]

Anyone with under 20 posts needs to step it up. I grow tired of the endless, stupid back-and-forths between me and emogirl and TBH it just makes me not want to post in this game, because it's not fun.

Also how the hell is the mod not even looking for a PeregrineV replacement yet?

[Alduskkel]

Why don't you think for yourself instead of riding on EG's coattails?

[Alduskkel]

So you're telling me that your reasons for voting me are completely unoriginal and you have nothing to say other than that so you're just going to hide behind EG.

Is that correct?

[Alduskkel]

@EG: Why are you speculating about who the scum will or will not nightkill? What's even the point of that?

[Alduskkel]

^Town.

There's your read, Hopkirk.

[Alduskkel]

I wasn't aware there was anything to say, because you haven't told me how my responses haven't been trying to get a read on emogirl.

Additionally, I am not townreading emogirl because of the selfvote, it's because of 359/360.

[Alduskkel]

Why do you think it's a tactic rather than a genuine response? What evidence do you have that I haven't been trying to get a read on emogirl?

[Alduskkel]

I would like to point out that about a third of the playerlist is due for a prod or replacement. :/

[Alduskkel]

I think our Mod died.

Jake vs. Hopkirk looks like Town v. Town to me.

ok, i read the last few pages

jake rescinding his town read on slandar to punish him for making a list is just... amazing. jake fucken hates lists. he hates them so fucken much that apparently it overrides his actual genuine opinion of slandar. it's such a ridiculously wrong conception of what a read is that i don't even find it scummy, just hilarious. because that's not a hill you're gonna die on as scum. there's no point. he just hates lists so fucken much that it no longer matters what his role pm says, or what slandar's role pm says, or the fact that anyone is engaged in a game of mafia in this thread. because this is bigger than any of that. this is an epic battle of good vs. evil. jake vs. lists. in cinemas Feb 2014.

that's my analysis

I love this post and I am literally going to quote it for no reason other than because you should read it again. Also because it's pretty damn true (except that Jake is probably town).

IN A WORLD WHERE PEOPLE GIVE LIST READS... one man from state farm has a to-do list of his own. Of death.

(Please send your writing job offers ASAP)

---

Slandaar vs. Jake... I have to think about that. It's either Town v. Town or Scum v. Town (respectively). In other words I have to think if Slandaar is scum or not. At the same time I feel like there's a high chance that 2 or even 3 scum are in the group of lurkers because I swear the vast majority of posts look like Town v. Town right now.

[Alduskkel]

Jake, why is Slandaar scum. My eyes are glazing over from these quote/response wall wars (among other things).

[Alduskkel]

Jake, can you talk to me instead of Slandaar for 5 seconds?

[Alduskkel]

So what's Slandaar's scum motivation for all this? Is he trying to get you (mis)lynched?

[Alduskkel]

He also said in one of his posts that anti-town and scum are 2 different things, yet when I say the exact same thing he acts like it's not true.

Also when did this happen? I'll take a post number or quotes, either is fine.

[Alduskkel]

I feel like there's just a miscommunication between you two.

[Alduskkel]

More JKLM votes please.

Duck's vote is probably wrong.

OK Townies we all need to start working together. I suggest we do this by voting JKLM until he is dead. If there are any objections to this they need to be made very clear with the reasoning for said objection.

VOTE: slandaar

Guys this needs to die, pushes for easy lynch and I've literally done nothing this game.

Given that could warrant a goo policy lynch, I feel like I may as well make my vote a non random one.

Oh really? Well that might be convenient then. I reckon you're town^

Yeah I can't blame anyone for voting for me

, I've completely abused this games existence.

Bolded parts taken together are ridiculous.

[Alduskkel]

216 and 242 I think.

[Alduskkel]

Shrug, take it up with him. I didn't say I agreed 100% with Slandaar.

[Alduskkel]

why do YOU want to lynch him. What post is your case?

266 and 497.

[Alduskkel]

No, he's scum, we just lynch him and be done with it. Replacements suck.

[Alduskkel]

@Hopkirk: How long have you scumread JKLM?

[Alduskkel]

@Jake: I don't want to see a scummy slot get replaced with some player with a 90% scum winrate or something who then steamrolls us. PeregrineV and BolteAltamont absolutely deserve replacement though -- they've literally done nothing of import.

If all 3 are scum it's because a lot of active player discussion seems town v. town, not because PV and BA are particularly scummy.

[Alduskkel]

@Jake: I admit Hopkirk's sudden jump onto the JKLM wagon doesn't sit very well with me. But I'm willing to overlook that for the sake of lynching JKLM anyway.

[Alduskkel]

Jake hates lists, and has argued with Hopkirk and Slandaar about it, among other things.

emogirl decided not to tunnel me so damn much, I guess.

JKLM is lurkerscum, you and BolteAltamont are just regular lurkers who may or may not be scum.

Our mod has disappeared.

Yiley is just sheeping emogirl's case on me basically (I do not mean this 100% literally but it is 100% true in spirit).

Some people think greygnarl is scum I guess.

And that's all I can think of at the moment.

[Alduskkel]

Oh, and PV, you might get bogged down in emogirl/me or Jake/Hopkirk or Jake/Slandaar back-and-forths.

While I encourage you to read them fully if you find that it is hindering your ability to catch up in a timely fashion then just skim or something. I just want some damn content from you ASAP.

[Alduskkel]

Hmm?

[Alduskkel]

You're supposed to give me reads, not the other way around. I thought you wanted a relatively unbiased summary.

I'd prefer if you got your own reads -- if you want my reads, then read the thread.

[Alduskkel]

Jake are you me?

[Alduskkel]

[Alduskkel]

Hint: I'm Town.

[Alduskkel]

iunno. JKLM's my best lead.

[Alduskkel]

You guys are fucking stupid.

I'm prodding the mod, then I'll post something in 5 minutes or so.

[Alduskkel]

Okay, first of all, greygnarl calls a JKLM/me scumteam. THEN he tells someone to get off JKLM and onto me. And all this after he had ample time to get onto my wagon but was apparently just "ignoring" the case on me, then when he does get on he's just sheeping.

I think my townread on greygnarl was wrong because I was just being influenced by the positive thought that SOMEONE realized that emogirl was just tunneling. greygnarl isn't Town.

Vote: greygnarl

Bonus points! JKLM also gets on my wagon! Why the fuck are we bussing so much if we're scum together? I don't even like bussing!

Taking a look at others now, I feel decently confident of the chance of an Ald scumflip as he's been playing a pretty weak/poor game compared to what he's capable of.

How would you even know? If anything I'm more capable as scum than as town.

The people most likely to be scum on my wagon are JKLM, greygnarl, and Yiley, but I don't think all 3 are on so Yiley is likely town. Same for emogirl and iamausername. Last scum might be in the lurkers, who knows.

[Alduskkel]

emogirl might be scum if I'm underestimating her.

emogirl, please link me to your most recent scum game.

[Alduskkel]

I didn't say you were scum, I think the scum on my wagon are JKLM and greygnarl.

Can you just tell me what this other site is?

[Alduskkel]

You do realize that site rules don't prevent you from linking to it because I'm attempting to solicit it from you, right?

[Alduskkel]

Why are you being anti-town? What town motivation do you have to NOT give your scum meta?

[Alduskkel]

I'm trying to improve my read on you. Is it 3DSPlaza?

[Alduskkel]

JKLM I don't know what the fuck you are talking about but your reads are accurate I guess so carry on?

[Alduskkel]

because it's not relevant right now. why are you grasping straws.

[Alduskkel]

What do you think of the fact that emogirl won't give us her scum meta? Is she trying to hide something?

[Alduskkel]

Describe your scum play to me.

[Alduskkel]

Describe how your scum play differs from your town play to me.

[Alduskkel]

In practice, how does it?

[Alduskkel]

If I linked you to a game of mine where I was mislynched, would you read it?

[Alduskkel]

Define a "good case."

[Alduskkel]

greygnarl is scum.
greygnarl is scum.
greygnarl is scum.
greygnarl is scum.
greygnarl is scum.

Vote with me for great justice.

[Alduskkel]

The-Duck, say greygnarl is lynched today.

1. He flips town. Who do you pursue as a lynch Day 2?
2. He flips scum. who do you pursue as a lynch Day 2?

I will reveal the purpose of these questions after they are answered.

[Alduskkel]

@The-Duck: Yeah, that's what I was thinking you might say. I'm afraid that if you're scum and greygnarl and I are town then you've got 2 mislynches lined up nicely and you've set yourself up to be on both.

We'll see how it plays out. Maybe greygnarl flips scum and my speculation won't matter. But I would like other people to keep this in mind.

[Alduskkel]

Aren't you assuming I'll try to get you lynched if greygnarl flips town?

[Alduskkel]

You're okay, though obviously I'm a bit paranoid about you.

Son-of-Zeus seems genuine but I could use more content from him.

I'm Town.

JKLM I'm still suspicious of but greygnarl is a more suspicious.

So the wagon on greygnarl is pretty good except JKLM's presence is something of an enigma to me.

By contrast, my wagon has some rather questionable people on it. greygnarl first and foremost. Yiley might be scum but I don't have scum meta on him and he could easily be bad town (unfortunately). Still, I'd lean scum on him. emogirl I'm weary of because she seems like tunneling town BUT I have no idea how good she is as scum.

iamausername is the person on my wagon who is most probably town, though he's just sitting on his vote right now mostly. I could also use more content from him.

[Alduskkel]

Well if it's bussing then I'm definitely cool with the wagon, since scum are helping us lynch scum!

[Alduskkel]

I don't recall JKLM calling me town

before

voting for me.

[Alduskkel]

Jake, if you help me lynch greygnarl I'll help you lynch Slandaar.

[Alduskkel]

Unvote

no time for anything else right now but I despise how this wagon has gained votes since I last posted

[Alduskkel]

Jake, if you help me lynch greygnarl I'll help you lynch Slandaar.

Why would you want to do this?

Because I wanted support for the greygnarl lynch.

@Ald: explain 635 to me. Where is the misunderstanding here? Jake has clearly just rambled on as a distraction tactic his whole stance changed to arguing I was saying what he was.

My impression is that Jake has a weird distinction between "scummy" and "scum" and that this is not indicative of his alignment.
---
Alright so now's when the clusterfuck happens.

665: greygnarl gets off my wagon (his best chance of survival) and votes Slandaar. BUT (wait for it) --
668: JKLM puts down a derpvote on Jake.
671: -- greygnarl puts back his vote on me after the vote count.
672: Well at least JKLM is voting the right person relative to his reasons.
673: No idea how this convinced iamausername.
674: JKLM gets onto greygnarl now...? 665/671 was scummy though (and JKLM quoted 671 so I assume that's why he voted that way)
676: emogirl wagons greygnarl for the mysterious reasons in 679.
681: Bullshit Yiley, since when do you scumread greygnarl?
686: ...

After all that let's see where votes are.

greygnarl: 4 - The-Duck, SonOfZeus, iamausername, JKLM
Alduskkel: 2 - Yiley, greygnarl
JKLM: 2 - Hopkirk, emogirl123
Slandaar: 1 - JFSF
JFSF: 1 - Slandaar

Not Voting: BolteAltamont, PeregrineV, Alduskkel

So here's the tricky part.
-JKLM is bad, Slandaar 685 is right.
-greygnarl is ALSO bad though, 665/671 are terrible.
-Yiley is seriously just hiding behind whatever emogirl is doing.
-I have no idea why Hopkirk asked for a claim from greygnarl after I unvoted.
-I have no idea what iamausername's thought process is.

So I have a bunch of questions at this point.
@greygnarl: Why did you move your vote off of me in 665 only to move it back onto me in 671?
@Yiley: Since when have you scumread greygnarl? Why are you just voting whoever emogirl votes?
@Hopkirk: Why did you ask for a claim after I unvoted?
@iamausername: What are you actually thinking here?

[Alduskkel]

Okay, first of all, we have 4 days greygnarl.

Slandaar, you're right in a strict sense, but I fail to see how it's scummy. Looks like town contradiction to me.

And even if you can convince me it's scummy -- I'm far more suspicious of greygnarl, JKLM, and Yiley right now. Jake isn't going to surpass more than one of those people on that alone.

[Alduskkel]

Slandaar, you asked Yiley for his read on you and he gave it. What was the point of this, i.e., what did you gain from it?

Also, what scumreads do you have other than Jake?

[Alduskkel]

What does he gain out of using it as a scumtell, if he's scum?

Please answer 692.

[Alduskkel]

Jake's case on you is that he thinks you've misrepresented him and lied.

What do you mean "Yiley squeezed out of a tight spot"?

Also thanks for implying that I'm scum for defending Jake REGARDLESS OF JAKE'S ALIGNMENT.

[Alduskkel]

Stop ignoring my questions about Yiley:

What do you mean "Yiley squeezed out of a tight spot"?

And you're dodging the question of what Jake gets out of his "lie."

The misrepresenting happens where? how is it scummy? and the lie isn't anything its just misremembering its not actually lying because lying implies knowing what you are doing.

I'm not here to reiterate Jake's case to you, nor am I even voting you in the first place.

[Alduskkel]

Stop ignoring my questions about Yiley:

What do you mean "Yiley squeezed out of a tight spot"?

It doesn't matter.

And you're dodging the question of what Jake gets out of his "lie."

Are you reading?

Scum gains? here is one: you are defending your buddy because you don't want him lynched OR you are defending town to buddy them. Scum 'gains' can applied to near enough anything and are not actually how you find scum.

Apparently not.

I'm not here to reiterate Jake's case to you, nor am I even voting you in the first place.

Yes of course not. But I like to hear it in your words considering you must understand it.

1. Why not?
2. Yes -- are you saying that Jake is defending someone? On the one hand your use of the word "you" implies you're talking about me, on the other hand we were discussing Jake so it's confusing.
3. Well, you got it in my words.

@Hopkirk: I'm not sure I'll be voting for greygnarl again after that clusterfuck earlier. I'm more strongly considering a Yiley vote.

I have scum read him for a while just haven't posted anything on it ald

And why didn't you post anything on it? You do realize it just looks like you were wagoning/sheeping, right? If that's somehow not what you were doing -- do tell.

@don_johnson: What is "beetlejuice syndrome"?

I'll wait until you finish your read and draw your conclusions to comment on your findings.

[Alduskkel]

I have seen the movie Beetlejuice (good movie) but it has been quite a while, and I don't recall syndromes.

And yeah, I agree, Slandaar's coyness about his Yiley questioning seems scummy. Yiley-Slandaar team, maybe?

[Alduskkel]

@Jake: Oh, I gotcha, lol. I thought it might have meant having a small head.

@Yiley: I asked you a question in 714, you know. As for who the 3rd person might be -- that doesn't concern me on Day 1. Even speculating on 2 members of the scumteam is difficult (but not impossible, of course).

[Alduskkel]

Then why threaten to hammer a wagon that wasn't on your top scumread while your top scumread still has a reasonable chance of being lynched? What about the sequence of events made it a fairly strong read?

[Alduskkel]

Yiley, why is greygnarl scummy? Use your own words, and don't be vague.

[Alduskkel]

@The-Duck: You seem to be under the impression that if something is bad for scum then someone can't be scummy for doing it. If we were talking about a more experienced player, I would absolutely agree with you. However, we are talking about Yiley, who (it is my understanding) is playing scum for the first time if he's scum.

emogirl and iamausername's votes were terrible as well. Keep in mind, those 2 and Yiley were on my wagon before, do you think I trust that they have all suddenly decided that greygnarl is scum? If it were just 1 of them maybe but all 3 at once is just too weird for me. JKLM getting on the wagon too in 674 was also somewhat bizarre (but less so).

iamausername is not very transparent with his votes (especially the greygnarl one).
emogirl apparently tunneled me like crazy and then all of a sudden decides she's okay with greygnarl getting lynched?
Yiley just sheeps emogirl apparently.
JKLM is all over the place.

That said Yiley's posts on this page read Town to me. I will have to figure out how to reconcile this with the rest of his play.

Slandaar, I don't care if you somehow prove you are Town. I still won't scumread Jake because of that.
Also, I still don't see what the idea was behind your questioning of Yiley. Stop trying to brush me aside on this, I'm going to keep asking and if you don't answer then I'm probably going to vote you.

Yiley, I would like you to answer 743.
---
So right now I'm thinking overall that greygnarl is looking townier and I will be voting 1 of {Slandaar, Yiley, JKLM}. Slandaar and Yiley pending my questions to them, JKLM pending me figuring out what is even going on with his play (I will iso him when I have time).

[Alduskkel]

Also, I still don't see what the idea was behind your questioning of Yiley. Stop trying to brush me aside on this, I'm going to keep asking and if you don't answer then I'm probably going to vote you.

Why does it matter so much?

I won't be explaining it because it isn't important. What is, is you explaining why you pester me about a non-issue.

It matters because I don't care for the fact that you seem to have just asked the question to look busy.

I don't care much for your claim either considering you don't have to give us anything until Day 3, but I've held off on lynching scummier people before (re: Open 530).

no vote slandaar, jklm is town.

VOTE: slandaar

jklm is so town it hurts

slandaar is scum

greygnarl you're making me want to vote you again. I want you to decide whether you're going to be scummy or not and stick to it.

Also, why is emogirl scum?

[Alduskkel]

greygnarl is at L-1, isn't he?

greygnarl: 6 - The-Duck, SonOfZeus, iamausername, JKLM, Slandaar, emogirl123
JKLM: 2 - Hopkirk, PeregrineV
Slandaar: 1 - Yiley
Hopkirk: 1 - greygnarl

Not Voting: Alduskkel, don_johnson, JFSF, greygnarl

Night will fall in (expired on 2013-12-09 12:00:00).

[Alduskkel]

What's the point of voting greygnarl over and over?

[Alduskkel]

Why not dayvig me today?

[Alduskkel]

Also, please explain post 737. Specifically when you said you could "do better."

[Alduskkel]

Nope. Maybe later.

[Alduskkel]

Well, he hasn't claimed, so I basically don't care how scummy he is right now: I'm not hammering.

[Alduskkel]

Nope.

[Alduskkel]

Actually, if greygnarl flips scum, vig should shoot PeregrineV or something. idk

[Alduskkel]

Don't hammer him. -.-

[Alduskkel]

What was the point of the hammer?

I can't answer the question due to site rules if you must know. You can explain the point to exhibit A though I am sure?

Because people don't usually just announce that they are "so town."

not sure why this is dependent on grey's alignment. Peregrine is a great vig target in all possible worlds.

You're not wrong.

[Alduskkel]

don, I'll answer your questions when YOU answer them.

[Alduskkel]

I resent that a little, but whatever, you guys can all rethink your ability to read me.

See you in the postgame.

[Alduskkel]

Jake, how dare you be scum.
AP, how dare you be town.
Slandaar, I don't care if Jake was scum, never again do what you did this game.

Anyway, I haven't read anything past page 75 of this game. I'm still sour about getting shot, I really think PV should have been shot instead. It probably wouldn't have changed the result, though.

[Alduskkel]

I could probably learn something from this game but holy jesus is it a long read.

[Alduskkel]

Hey, why did don die? 'Cause this game could have used a lot more vig kills.

[Alduskkel]

Damn. Well played sir.

[Alduskkel]

I can help you out there.