Mini 1521: The Fall - Game Over

[Slandaar]

Wait, slow down, lets look at this sensibly...

The chicken who we know was on his way to visit one of the mafias' house's finds Hopkirk at the door. Hopkirk then tries to discredit the chicken suggesting it's a fallacy and poor circular logic! This means it is indeed his house and he wasn't just visiting or house sitting etc otherwise he would have already explained that in his thorough analysis. This means Hopkirk is the owner of the house and we know the chicken was visiting a house owned by a member of the mafia so there is only one conclusion we can draw here.

VOTE: Hopkirk

[Slandaar]

Actually Hopkirk is renting it from you
VOTE: slandaar

No that is covered by the etc here:

This means it is indeed his house and he wasn't just visiting or house sitting etc

I forgive you Yiley, I forgive you.

It's less distracting than what you were doing.

Which is?

[Slandaar]

I'm far more interested in the people swimming against the current and

their motives

for doing so. Hopkirk appears to be playing a similar game where he previously played as a VT and made a similar yet less aggressive post towards another VT. Of course, you are going to go ahead and say to me that this is a WIFOM situation

Uhhh

and yes it is, I agree with you.

Kay.

Now the interesting part of my post is, we can then analyze if his

intent

for voting me was to lead to a mislynch, or was it a genuine post to prod more information. Since I made this post, of course what ever that has happened will not be on the table anymore. The purpose of this post is to let you know that I have genuine interest in the response of the players I mentioned previously.

No, see, that's not how it works.

Even as scum its very unlikely any scum making an RVS vote would be voting to lynch (yes secretly they may want it to happen) but they won't be voting for that purpose thus you can never find the

scum intent

you are looking for. Both as town and scum the intent can be to 'prod' more information. As scum the intent is at its most basic level to blend in; to look town.

[Slandaar]

damn I was right about you? awesome. more votes on hop please. Attacking a person for not RVS'ing is like scumtell numero uno

I liked the part where he was analysing the chicken suggesting its a fallacy and circular logic lol.

[Slandaar]

And what gives you that idea gray?

Hopsy can you just write up a short analysis of what you think has happened so far in this game from your POV explaining why you think people are voting you and what your posts mean. For example:

I started off with a joke about conforming and was voted for making a bad joke, I then fell into Jakes trap and his magical daycop chicken, to which I tried to prove that this daycop chicken isn't a sensible argument. Slandaar then voted me sheeping the magical daycop chicken ending in me sarcastically asking him if he believes the daycop chicken actually works.

[Slandaar]

VOTE: JKLM

[Slandaar]

Much better.

Well that's good! I was thinking of going into great detail to explain why I made my vote but apparently I don't need to!

[Slandaar]

Of course not, silly. You only needed to explain it if you kept your vote, which you didn't.

I thought you were being sarcastic but I see now; you were paying attention.

I gave Hopsy the Benefit of the doubt.

Don't you think all vote need reasons?

Take a look at JKLM tell me what you think of him, town, scum, got no idea?
(hint: hes scum)

[Slandaar]

Yep

[Slandaar]

I am so town.

[Slandaar]

Jay Kay El Em guys.

@Hopsy: Still in the game?
@Peregrineeeeeeeee: What's cooking?

[Slandaar]

@Slandaar: Why are you so town? Also why is JKLM scum?

Really?

I own a town pm. JKLM owns a scum pm.

[Slandaar]

how did you reach the conclusion that JKLM received a scum pm?

His first post is terrible he didn't try to get involved, the second post contains a complete lie. If you are catching up you read the thread you don't go and post elsewhere on the site.

[Slandaar]

"@I am a user name: Firstly 1411: Rqs also generates stuff. Obviously there are other ways to scum hunt but saying “two posts don’t sound the same as the rest/why” aren’t the best things to get stuff moving."
See my post a couple after his question for where this comes from.

Hopsy!!!

You're back!

You didn't find the time to tell me though

[Slandaar]

Duck's vote is probably wrong.

OK Townies we all need to start working together. I suggest we do this by voting JKLM until he is dead. If there are any objections to this they need to be made very clear with the reasoning for said objection.

[Slandaar]

Because for a while, SonOfZeus and JKLM played similarly.

Uh? This means something?

Now JKLM is vla until Saturday. I really don't know what you are trying to accomplish here.

Lynch scum.

Also you are

really

pushing it this game.

Yep.

I will go through my thought process at some point if need-be to show the point of everything. But JKLM is actually scum and your 'objection' is he is VLA which is not a reason to ignore him or leave him be.

[Slandaar]

Guys this needs to die, pushes for easy lynch and I've literally done nothing this game.

Contrary to what you say pushing for a lynch on someone who has done 'literally nothing' in the first few days of a game is actually extremely hard because everyone goes 'oh noes we can't lynch him he hasn't done anything!!' which amusingly is your defence.

Unfortunately for you, you have done something.

Could you explain to me why you said you were catching up and didn't read one post?

[Slandaar]

I see so what you are saying is that he wouldn't do it because its too obvious but then surely Alduskel wouldn't act neutral as scum because its too obvious?

[Slandaar]

EG is town.

I know this is a bombshell for some of you so I feel that is all I should contribute for now as your minds may well explode if I post more!

[Slandaar]

I really would like to explain but like I said previously an explosion of the mind may occur if I do, so, I need to give you time for this to sink in before I go into the why. Such a considerate guy I am.

[Slandaar]

Also emogirl and Slandaar please cut the shit. Make your case and argue for it but do not play the "scum because scum, sheep me please" game.

I feel the exact same way as this:

I did make my case and I did argue for it.

I have made my case it is in fact very strong even if you(Grey) don't think it is.

How about you explain to me why a townie would say they are catching up when they have no intention to do so as you must have an answer.

[Slandaar]

Heres my current reads:

Too town for any townlist: Slandaar

Town
EG
Yiley
Duck
Zeus

Townish
Username - although his posts read very manufactured.
Grey

Townishishish
Jake

That Leaves
Ald; meh, asking me why I am 'so town' was terrible.
Hopsy who is scumish; he is very wooden.
PV posted nothing but scumish for similar reasons to JKLM
Bolte who has done nothing. Literally.
JKLM who is scum.

[Slandaar]

Damn my 1 townread just did the most anti-town thing ever. List reads =bad

Guess I'm back to square one, except hop is still scum so I'm good with my vote where it's at.

We could argue about the merits of posting reads but lets not it is pointless. Instead lets talk about why you think me posting a list of reads is related to my alignment in such a strong way. Go.

[Slandaar]

My theory is read lists=good. As town I follow my theory and post read lists because they are good as scum I do it too because I do it as town.

Somehow though this is related to my alignment

???

[Slandaar]

Uh

So, in this game I make 2 read lists on D1;
#1
#2

I was town.

How is posting read lists related to my alignment Jake?

[Slandaar]

It's related because the act itself is scummy.

If I am scum and post a list it doesn't help me. None of the negative effects people ever list occur when scum post the read list. You say its scummy, what am I gaining by doing it except playing to my town meta?

[Slandaar]

wait, are you saying you only do list reads as town? cause if so you are violating site rules with regards to trust tells. So the fact that you do list reads can't be used to prove squat.

Actually in that scenario it proves I am town because I only ever do them as town.

I did say this though;

My theory is read lists=good. As town I follow my theory and post read lists because they are good

as scum I do it too because I do it as town.

no to mention I have just found a game where you did list reads as scum so you can't use the fact you did list reads as a town tell anymore.

I never said it was a towntell. The point is it is a complete nulltell.

I also don't give a rats ass if you always do it as town, the act itself is scummy to ME and that's all that matters.

But it doesn't change the probability of me being town or scum because I always do it... so no. You are trying to suggest I am scummy for my theory which I clearly held before the game began before I had a pm which means it's completely irrelevant to my alignment.

List reads are anti town because they are 1. An incredible waste of time which could be better spent scum hunting, 2. they don't show examples of scum hunting which you should be doing if you are town. 3. if you happen to be town they give scum more information and since they already have the advantage, it's incredibly stupid to give them more. 4. If you happen to be scum it gives the impression that you are town cause idiots townies ooh and ahh at people who do list reads and immediately assume they are town. (Lost a few games because of this very thing, I believe even one of the games on this account)

Your points are very flimsy.

I die N1 very often as town so I post them in the hopes town will actually listen as I will never have a chance at a later point to post my thoughts. I can then think about the situations and reasoning when I don't die. That alone bypasses everything you just said.

and going through your games i just remember who you are. Yeah i'm just going to ignore you for the rest of the game cause you're a punk

VOTE: Jake

Jakes scum, he started off OK but his content never really existed and since the hopsy stuff on page 1 hasn't done anything till now which is just ridiculously bad. I explained multiple times that actually what he said doesn't apply (in different ways) but he obviously isn't actually trying to read people and is just taking the easy path of 'anti town is scum' when the two are completely different things. (this is ignoring the fact posting read lists isn't anti town in the first place)

[Slandaar]

Yeah you knew it was coming hence the discrediting act prior. It was quite obvious.

[Slandaar]

Yiley read on me.

[Slandaar]

He just seems town to me;

I said him and Hopkirk were a scumteam while I was voting Hopkirk and he asked me why and I don't want to answer that cuz I don't want to give him any ideas and so him and perseus jumped down my throat.

This was pretty town. I could get more quotes but eh.

---

Basically Jake has a problem with posting townreads and even though I have proven I do it all the time he thinks its alignment related which it cannot possibly be so hes scum.

Posting townreads is essential. The game is about 10 individuals and a 3 man team. The team is strong because 1. it is informed and 2. it works as a team. You can form 'teams' as town if you can find people to trust; the best way to do this is have townreads on show. These are more readily known as townblocks around here and actually do work; working as a team is better than as individuals this cannot ever happen if no-one posts townreads for obvious reasons.

The 'oh but its anti-town' is bad; Scum can work out who town think is obvtown to nk without town posting read lists. No other argument actually exists against them all Jakes points are double edged if you look.

Jake is simply hiding behind this and pretending it has bearing on alignment when it doesn't and that is his scumhunting in this game summed up.

[Slandaar]

Damn my 1 townread just did the most anti-town thing ever.

Ok so accordion to you it's a null tell but I look at the act as anti-town and I can't town read someone doing something anti-town. So you will just be

null to slightly scummy

and I'll keep an eye on you. Mmkay?

Goodbye Jake.

[Slandaar]

I don't care and never did that Jake dislikes read lists, this is very clear, the point was always Jake is using something which is null as a scumtell.

He now suggests it is I who is doing this which is hilarious.

Lynch him.

[Slandaar]

I have no idea what you just said. Probably because you are scum.

[Slandaar]

He did? That's not how I read it. But his "point" about me using something that's a null tell as a scumtell is a flat out lie.

Damn my 1 townread just did the most anti-town thing ever.

Ok so accordion to you it's a null tell but I look at the act as anti-town and I can't town read someone doing something anti-town. So you will just be

null to slightly scummy

and I'll keep an eye on you. Mmkay?

Goodbye Jake.

I like how you keep pretending your 'read' didn't change based on a non-issue ie a null-tell Jake. Especially liked the part where you say I am lying about you doing so.

Heres an actual flat out lie:

Anti town and scummy do not automatically mean scum. The fact you are even suggesting that makes me question your alignment even more.

[Slandaar]

The lie occurs when you say my read changed from town to scum read which has been proven not true.

Your case is that you think I said that your read on me is scum when it is null-scum?

Its just terrible.
(I didn't say that to begin with get a quote)

The point is and always was; if you are changing a read based on my read list you are saying that posting read lists is aligment indicative which it clearly is NOT.

Since then you have tried to circumvent the issue and even tried making the case I made on you on me which is just laughable.

we are going to have to chalk this up to a difference of opinion, it certainly isn't a lie as I have seen town act scummy hundreds of times, I have even played scummy on purpose as town.

The lie is I never suggested that but good try.

one of us dies today and the other tomorrow and a town flip means the other dies tomorrow. Sound good?

OK, everyone vote Jake.

[Slandaar]

If you change a read based on X you must think X is alignment related. Common Sense.

I literally have no idea what you are talking about most of the time its such nonsense and has no relation to anything.

[Slandaar]

If you change a read based on X you must think X is alignment related. Common Sense.

Nice wall though.

[Slandaar]

Still applies.

[Slandaar]

Yup.

Changing read from town-null based on me posting a read list means you think the read list is alignment related.

You are already dead.

[Slandaar]

and despite you arguing that it's a nulltell, list reads are not null, not to me anyways.

lol.

So, wait, it must be alignment related then?

[Slandaar]

I don't think Jake even knows what hes saying.

[Slandaar]

well yes of course. Why else would he lie and say that I thought he was scum for posting the list read, when anyone who reads my post again can clearly see i was not calling him scum. he's voting me based off a lie/misrep.

I really don't see how that matters even if true.

The point was always and is very clear in all my posting that Jake is using a null-tell even after pointed out is a null-tell as a scum-tell.

This can be evidenced here:

Damn my 1 townread just did the most anti-town thing ever.

Ok so accordion to you it's a null tell but I look at the act as anti-town and I can't town read someone doing something anti-town. So you will just be

null to slightly scummy

and I'll keep an eye on you. Mmkay?

Goodbye Jake.

He then argues for eternity about some nonsense when its provably a null tell.

I NEVER said him giving list reads was alignment related.

How is posting read lists related to my alignment Jake?

It's related because the act itself is scummy.

Ouch.

[Slandaar]

I will look at this later.

[Slandaar]

@JKLM: Why did you vote someone you didn’t thing was scum (ald).

I think this is greatly understated.

JKLM calls Ald town then in his next post votes him for no actual reason then hes back to 'Ald is town'

[Slandaar]

Eh I thought he called Ald town nevermind.

Jake is such a scumbag though.

[Slandaar]

Well that is obviously what I thought I am not going to just intentionally make stuff up even if I were scum...

Good try though. Makes you look really town, kinda funny how when its JKLM who lies its a PL but me oh must be scum!!!

[Slandaar]

oh cmon slandaar

are you really saying that a player promising to catch up but not is on the same level as what you just did? gtfoh

Yeah there is a difference, one is obvious one is a prod dodge disguised as something more.

[Slandaar]

Did you ever explain this Jake?

I NEVER said him giving list reads was alignment related.

How is posting read lists related to my alignment Jake?

It's related because the act itself is scummy.

Ouch.

Why isn't he dead yet?

[Slandaar]

oh very nice deflection you just did there, you avoided a direct question and instead pointed to something that has already been answered.

Deflecting what? lol.

Do it sure, show, I don't even know why you are asking. You will need about 20 to balance my scum examples so get to it!

but yes I already explained it, I also said doing stuff that is anti-town and scummy doesn't automatically = scum. It's funny because you said almost the exact same thing already this game. I even quoted it and pointed out to someone (can't remember who) who asked for it.

Thats cool we said the same thing! What does this matter?

so if YOU say anti town doesn't equal scum and I say essentially the same thing, yet you want to paint me as some sort of liar, doesn't that just make you look bad? yes, yes it does.

lol

You did lie ... so uh? Don't see what me saying something and never changing that stance has to do with you saying one then arguing the opposite and finally saying you didn't say it?

[Slandaar]

Spoiler:

Bert says he is going to catch up, his next post comes the next day and he still hadn't catch up. Game was abandoned but he was town - http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p5403608
Aeronaut, same game. was town - http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p5366312
Darthe, same game. Said would be responding to posts "today" doesn't post until the next day and again promises to catch up - http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p5377518
AA9 does it - http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p5381434
Dr.Cirno - http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p5015572

I can probably find more but that is more than enough to show that town are just as likely to do that as scum. If you really want 20 town examples from you, you need to provide 20 examples of scum doing it first.

The ratio is like 3.3:1 to be null. The point on JKLM is he provably didn't read ONE post. So, which of yours didn't read one post? none of them.

Only the second is even close the rest DO catch up.

[Slandaar]

Jake, if you help me lynch greygnarl I'll help you lynch Slandaar.

Why would you want to do this?

[Slandaar]

The ratio is like 3.3:1 to be null

making up numbers now?

if 1 scum does it for every town then its a scumtell because town numbers outweigh scum so nope not made up numbers thanks.

[Slandaar]

well can you provide me a link to the official documentation for this?

No such thing.

Mini Normal 13p 10 town 3 scum. The town:scum ratio is 3.3:1

If X is done by town and scum at 1:1 ratio then its a scumtell because purely on that alone your odds of being scum are much higher than average (50%). Therefore 3.3:1 is null anything with higher odds than that is a towntell; less is scumtell.

@Ald: explain 635 to me. Where is the misunderstanding here? Jake has clearly just rambled on as a distraction tactic his whole stance changed to arguing I was saying what he was.

[Slandaar]

Jake is scum the simple version

Original point: Read list is terrible!!! read change!!!
This means that he thinks the read list is alignment related he even says so:

that 1 post was bad enough to make me doubt you, and despite you arguing that it's a nulltell, list reads are not null, not to me anyways.

They are not null (therefore are related to alignment)

It's related because the act itself is scummy.

Says he thinks its scummy again therefore it must be related to alignment.

again you infer that me finding it scummy somehow means it's alignment related

Again he says he found it scummy but tries to suggest hes not using as an alignment indicator which he clearly is evidenced by his read change.

I am not pretending anything, my read DID change on you and I have never denied that fact. My read changed because of the list read, i have not denied that. My read on you changed from Town to null/scummy as evident from my post and the fact that you quoted that post yourself.

His read changed therefore he is using it as something other than a nulltell.

Now; what have I been saying all the time;

I explained multiple times that actually what he said doesn't apply (in different ways) but he obviously isn't actually trying to read people and is just taking the easy path of 'anti town is scum' when the two are completely different things. (this is ignoring the fact posting read lists isn't anti town in the first place)

The point was always and is very clear in all my posting that Jake is using a null-tell even after pointed out is a null-tell as a scum-tell.

(theres more but eh you get the point)

So far we can see Jake is clearly using a nulltell in relation to his read on me THIS MEANS he is using it as an alignment indicator. He is using it as a scumtell (because his read clearly moved towards scum)

It is very, very obvious he isn't trying to read people and just being a scumbag.

He has repeatedly suggested I have said stuff which I just havn't and his story changes constantly the post I keep showing demonstrates this very well.

The lie occurs when you say my read changed from town to scum read which has been proven not true. When someone says something that has been proven not true, that means it was either a mistake or a lie. I don't think you made a mistake because you repeated it despite being proven wrong, which makes it a lie.

For example, this 'lie' I never said what he suggests, he doesn't use quotes for obvious reasons.

I NEVER called him scum, I NEVER said him giving list reads was alignment related.

He said it is related to alignment (see post I have quoted a couple times) and clearly uses it as such.

I DID say that giving list reads was anti-town and because of that he isn't obvious town to me anymore.

He said it is scummy(multiple times) big difference.

I DID say that scummy does not equal Scum.

This is his defence 'scummy doesn't mean scum!' what? doesn't matter it still means you are using it as an alignment indicator.

Jake is scum his story does not add up at all. Hes just trying to spam post out of it.

[Slandaar]

And hes voting me for lying about his read? that isn't a case its nonsense, have you seen how much he has posted about this?
(I never said his read was scum)

[Slandaar]

Bad news Jake I have more time again.

[Slandaar]

And Yiley I still want your read on me don't be shy.

[Slandaar]

What does it mean then?

[Slandaar]

P.edit - slandaar, you aren't a newb.

Anti town and scummy do not

automatically mean scum. The fact you are even suggesting that makes me question your alignment even more.

Translated: anti town and anti town do not...

Makes sense.

I think you just make it up as you go along. The point still stands using a nulltell as a scumtell.

[Slandaar]

And there you go again. I'm not saying it's a scumtell.

I don't care what you are saying it is very evident you are using it as such.

Jake has shot down your points over and over and you act like it never happened. Please.

For example?

VOTE: jake

Lazy scum has been caught, let's go go go, I have ever said anything about Ald before my vote so great going. Flail harder btw.

Also I see either greygnarl is really oblivious to all this. Or is sum. Prob the latter.

lazy scum has been caught.

Whoops my point on grey is null then, sorry I posted from my ISO page so I was going off of my memory. My baaaaaaad sowereee

VOTE: slandaar

Although I'm uncomfortable that you're on this wagon but that was just such a lazy slip of him to say that of me.

That was such a lazy slip of JKLM to say that of Jake.

JKLM is very obviously scum - suggesting misremembering is lazy scum when he did the exact same thing.

[Slandaar]

My impression is that Jake has a weird distinction between "scummy" and "scum" and that this is not indicative of his alignment.

And how does this matter at all?

I NEVER said him giving list reads was alignment related.

How is posting read lists related to my alignment Jake?

It's related because

the act itself is scummy.

Now, I ask how it is related he says IT IS RELATED BECAUSE which means he is agreeing it is related. If he thought it wasn't the answer to my question is: it isn't. Pretty simple.

He later backtracks trying to say he isn't using it in regards to my alignment which he just said he is and clearly is because his read changed based on it.

Try again.

[Slandaar]

Answer my question Grey.

[Slandaar]

Slandaar, you're right in a strict sense, but I fail to see how it's scummy. Looks like town contradiction to me.

He is/was using a nulltell as a scumtell which he knows is a nulltell.

How is this not scummy exactly?

[Slandaar]

Uh it is fake scumhunting.

Scum gains? here is one: you are defending your buddy because you don't want him lynched OR you are defending town to buddy them. Scum 'gains' can applied to near enough anything and are not actually how you find scum.

Do you think Jake genuinely believes his 'case' on me? It is completely fake. Do you even know what it is?
Where is his case on Hop? the page 1 stuff? yeah...

Yiley squeezed out of a tight spot. My reads are currently in flux.

[Slandaar]

Jake's case on you is that he thinks you've misrepresented him and lied.

He has misrepresented me multiple times and lied.

The misrepresenting happens where? how is it scummy? and the lie isn't anything its just misremembering its not actually lying because lying implies knowing what you are doing.

Also thanks for implying that I'm scum for defending Jake REGARDLESS OF JAKE'S ALIGNMENT.

No problem. It was an example to demonstrate the point it wasn't actually what I think but I like how mad you are about it.

[Slandaar]

Stop ignoring my questions about Yiley:

What do you mean "Yiley squeezed out of a tight spot"?

It doesn't matter.

And you're dodging the question of what Jake gets out of his "lie."

Are you reading?

Scum gains? here is one: you are defending your buddy because you don't want him lynched OR you are defending town to buddy them. Scum 'gains' can applied to near enough anything and are not actually how you find scum.

Apparently not.

I'm not here to reiterate Jake's case to you, nor am I even voting you in the first place.

Yes of course not. But I like to hear it in your words considering you must understand it.

[Slandaar]

ok here i'll concede that my wording may have been off but it's fairly obvious what I have been trying to say. Doing a list read doesn't confirm your alignment as scum

Didn't say it does or you said it does or... what has this got to do with anything?

but it does make me doubt you are town.

Therefore is being used as something other than null.

Instead of trying to act like you know how I feel about list reads, maybe you should take the time to go through my games and find out.

so as you can see they are not a nulltell to me. They are scummy or anti-town.

And anti-town means what? nothing in relation to alignment so why are you changing reads based on it again?

Do you even know what my case is? because i don't think you do.

Not really, the lying thing but that is just you being a scumbag.

Why are you not voting JKLM Jake?

[Slandaar]

you are just trolling at this point.

I am trolling? you are the one trolling.

1. this is what you and I have been going back and forth on for most of the game, and you even specifically brought this up in post 688

Get the quote where I once argued or said this. All I have said is that you are using it as an alignment indicator which you pretend isn't true when it very clearly is as your read changed so you are. Factually proven.

I won't bother with the rest as the number games just annoying and I have no clue what it is referencing at all.

[Slandaar]

Slandaar also lied to paint jklm as scummy. JKLM sort of lied also but personally it just looks like he confused the 2 of us and wasn't malicious like slandaar's lie was.

lol... malicious lie indeed.

This is why Jake is scum, its completely fake.

[Slandaar]

Yuni & Desp; When did you realise this was multiball? Did you read the rules? Assume based on name? Found out in thread?

[Slandaar]

Uh wrong game ... multitabs.

[Slandaar]

I will add Perenguine into the mix cause I don't like his lurking.

Not JKLM though? and why is this?

Let us try a different route;
Who are your townreads Jake and why?

[Slandaar]

@ don - recap is basically Slandaar and I have going back and forth because we have a difference of opinion about list reads.

Slandaar posted one and i dropped my town read on him because I feel they are anti-town. he disagrees and feels they are null and he went out of his way to prove to me that he does them as town,

This is all terrible but... His version tells the story Jake says it is anti town and I say null (they can be the same thing well they are mostly but...)

Jake says it is NOT null. This is evident when he says he thinks my viewpoint is I DISAGREE AND FEEL THEY ARE NULL

This is the case on Jake: using a very very clear null tell as a scumtell.

Is posting reads list a nulltell? uh yes. I have proven that I do post read lists as both alignments nearly always.

IF you still do not understand READ WHAT JAKE SAYS. Does that read to you like a case on someone and reason to tunnel for however many pages now? Do you see how he thinks its just a difference of opinion on Theory? (Which as I already explained to him was null). That isn't a case, he is fake scumhunting, the rest of his case is another great demonstration the 'lie' it is laughably bad.

[Slandaar]

Jklm is only prob scum if you are town. Since you are prob scum , that clears jklm.

Not sure if I have any strong town reads. Jklm obviously be default, certainly not cause of content. Ald is a slight town read. The rest are null

I see.

So, you lied here then;

I have a few prob towns. 2 are pretty obvious if you read.

Or did your reads just magically change?

You know what would be useful? if you had posted a read list.

[Slandaar]

Then, he can explain his reads and what made them change.

It is also worth saying; Jake has had his exact same suspicions for 30 pages and however long I have been respectively so, Yiley, DO 'suspicions' change?

[Slandaar]

It is also worth saying; Jake has had his exact same suspicions for 30 pages and however long I have been respectively so, Yiley, DO 'suspicions' change?

why are you lying again?

Your Hopsy read has remained for 30 pages and Your read on me has remained for however long.

I see you are jumping to conclusions though, isn't this what 'makes me scum'? yet you are doing it???

[Slandaar]

Yes obviously they do the point was Jakes don't when he has literally no reasoning he just accuses people of lying and misrepping as a smokescreen.

1. this is what you and I have been going back and forth on for most of the game, and you even specifically brought this up in post 688

Get the quote where I once argued or said this. All I have said is that you are using it as an alignment indicator which you pretend isn't true when it very clearly is as your read changed so you are. Factually proven.

Where is the quote Jake?

[Slandaar]

actually my Hopsy read has lasted for 28 pages
my scum read on you has lasted 12 pages

You are also forgetting that my read on you went from town to null and then to scum. I also had my read change on emo girl.

but nice misrep by you.

so, I am lying it was 28 not 30? lol.

Die please.

[Slandaar]

but I am having fun here, Slandaar. I think we should be blood brothers. one of us dies today and the other tomorrow and a town flip means the other dies tomorrow. Sound good?

vote: slandaar

if we have a RB or something please block Hop tonight, obviously he is the PR and slandaar is protecting him by discrediting his main attacker. Your early distancing was quite clever i will give you that, but I think it's pretty obvious you two are partners.

In fact I have had enough.

Jake still want this? I prove I am town you get hung?

[Slandaar]

Oh you misunderstand

I prove I am town and you get hung today. Agree? You will vote yourself.

[Slandaar]

I won't ever self vote but town can lynch me, i won't stop them.

Why offer in the first place then?

Just fake bravado to try and look town.

[Slandaar]

Anyways it does need to end, so, I prove I am town everyone votes Jake, agreed? (at everyone except Jake)

[Slandaar]

Even night tracker.

Odd night PR can confirm me and there will be one.

VOTE: Grey

The funny thing is Jake after all the walls about read lists being terrible has in fact posted his reads. If I have to lynch through the idiots to get scum lynched then that is what we will do.

[Slandaar]

For reference if Grey were to flip scum;

So why do you need a summary? Are you like semi blind or lazy or something? I think you are perfectly able to read it yourself

instead of trying to look like a mafia.

..

Reads awful.

I'm attacking Yiley because I am suspicious of him, notice how I've been working on him most of the game, that being said, suspicion is waning,

just want to see how competent he is

. I have ignored your Ald case so far because it is just tunneling.

For what reason?

Yiley needs lynching also.

[Slandaar]

Well Grey just did the 'Not enough time to switch wagons' 'you are buying time so there isn't enough time to switch wagons'

Hes a good lynch.

[Slandaar]

Also, I still don't see what the idea was behind your questioning of Yiley. Stop trying to brush me aside on this, I'm going to keep asking and if you don't answer then I'm probably going to vote you.

Why does it matter so much?

I won't be explaining it because it isn't important. What is, is you explaining why you pester me about a non-issue.

[Slandaar]

but then i REALIZED THERE WASN'T REALLY TIME FOR A WAGON ON HIM AND YOU WERE KIND OF SCUMMY. CAPSD LOCK NO TIME TO RETYPE

Slandaar cut the shit. You're gonna wait until there's not enough time for us to wagon you.

Just hang this. Its so contradictory first there isn't enough time then I am buying time so there isn't enough time.

[Slandaar]

Why did you need to know Yileys competency? And if you actually wanted to know why didn't you just meta him and decide for yourself instead of using an 'unknown' alignment game to judge?

[Slandaar]

You still need to answer this slandaar

Answer my question to Ald.

[Slandaar]

Why does it matter?

[Slandaar]

Hes town.
Emo is town.

Grey is scum, lynch him and be done.

[Slandaar]

If it didn't matter why bring it up in the first place? You thought it was relevant so I want to know what you were referring to. Goes to your already shaky credibility.

Because it could have mattered but I have deemed it doesn't

Heres an answer I could have given: I just wanted to see his response instead of saying what I did then refusing to answer.

Lets try that again.

Why does me explaining it to you matter?

[Slandaar]

Jake was really lucky I didn't have much time around this point but I will now show certain people why this post is terrible. Note: it is Jakes whole 'case' at this point.

Your case is that you think I said that your read on me is scum when it is null-scum?

You were the one operating on the assumption that you posting a reads list was alignment related.

Jake changed his read based on me posting a read list so it is. This isn't arguable. Change the wording if you want to using it as a scumtell or just changing a read using a complete null tell all mean the same thing.

again you infer that me finding it scummy somehow means it's alignment related

What is happening here is Jake is using his definition of scummy while I mine but it makes no sense because I am using the definition how most would use it. Jake MUST know that most people think scummy means that it isn't null. This isn't an uncommon interpretation. He is in effect Manipulating things via imposing his meaning onto my wording.

here is where you actually come out and say it (note the bolded because I never called him scum, EVER. In fact the part after the bold actually reinforces what I have been trying to say. Scummy =/= scum yet somehow he isn't getting it.)

but he obviously isn't actually trying to read people and is just taking the easy path of

'anti town is scum'

when the two are completely different things.

I never said scummy = scum and I will prove Jake knows this soon enough (end of the wall) Jake is therefore misrepping me or lying, or both doesn't matter. Anti-town is scum was just shorthand for 'anti-town is not a null tell and I must change my read towards scum based on it'

again you say/imply that I think your list reads is alignment related

Jake changed his read (fact) based on me posting a read list, this makes it alignment related, you don't change reads based on a null tell.

I have no clue what Jake thinks I am saying or is pretending he thinks I am but it doesn't matter.

again he says I am using a nulltell as a scumtell (which again is a lie)

AGAIN Jake uses his definition of scumtell and imposes it on me. My definition is not scumtell=scum which apparently is his. Mine is in the thread so there is no lie here Jake again is misrepping me by suggesting I mean something other than I do.

I NEVER called him scum, I NEVER said him giving list reads was alignment related.

I NEVER said he said either of these (more on this in a bit). I said hes using it as an alignment indicator which he is because his read changed.

I DID say that giving list reads was anti-town and because of that he isn't obvious town to me anymore.

Yep he did I never argued this in the first place no idea why it is here.

I DID say that he is null to slightly scummy

Yep, never said otherwise. Again why is this here?

I DID say that scummy does not equal Scum.

Thats cool, again why is this here?

He is trying to imply that I am calling him scum for posting a list read and

Nope Never said this Jake is lying once more.

Let me prove it:

Doing a list read doesn't confirm your alignment as scum

I respond and he says (1.)

1.

this is what you and I have been going back and forth on for most of the game,

and you even specifically brought this up in post 688

Get the quote

where I once argued or said this. All I have said is that you are using it as an alignment indicator which you pretend isn't true when it very clearly is as your read changed so you are. Factually proven.

Where is the quote Jake?

Where is the quote Jake?

Hes misrepping me once again.

688 says nothing of the sort for reference; alignment indicator does not = scum. It means the read changed basically anything which changes a read is an alignment indicator or related to alignment or is NOT being used as a null tell etc. Which if we look back Jakes read changed so that is what he was doing.

[Slandaar]

It matters because I don't care for the fact that you seem to have just asked the question to look busy.

I see.

Kinda like exhibit A then;

@Slandaar: Why are you so town?

Interesting.

I can't answer the question due to site rules if you must know. You can explain the point to exhibit A though I am sure?

[Slandaar]

Why don't you get the quote considering the number of times you have suggested I lied of misrepped based on it.

Simple request, no?

[Slandaar]

Or how about instead of all the nonsense meta you have defended yourself with try and use relevant meta.

Show where your read has changed on someone purely for posting a read list.

[Slandaar]

Good job your entire case was misunderstanding me.

I never said alignment indicator = scum. Misrepping me the entire time in other words.

[Slandaar]

I assume you have the requested meta?

I mean read lists are posted nearly every game so you should have an example.

[Slandaar]

You have shown you think they are anti-town.

You have NOT shown a read change due to them, so NO, you have not provided an example.

[Slandaar]

Alignment indicator does mean scum. I even said that if I was using it as an alignment indicator I would have voted you.

YOU may think so.
I DO NOT. YOU USE MY MEANING WHEN I AM POSTING NOT YOURS.

So, you must show where I (NOT YOU) said that if you are saying I said it is.

[Slandaar]

Good job your entire case was misunderstanding me.

I never said alignment indicator = scum. Misrepping me the entire time in other words.

Alignment indicator does mean scum. I even said that if I was using it as an alignment indicator I would have voted you.

No it doesn't.

Your whole case relies on it so I understand the reluctance to accept it.

I never said alignment indicator=scum. In MY posts I use MY definition of the term not whatever yours is. This is common sense.

What are you arguing this for Jake?

[Slandaar]

Why are you so mad?

If you can't play nicely replace out. I am gonna request you are force replaced anyways so you should just avoid that.

[Slandaar]

l.
15) Be nice, and try to enjoy yourself.

You are an idiot fuck off and die

So go fuck yourself and don't talk to me again ever

Not acceptable. Replace him please.

[Slandaar]

The game will be really ugly if you are not removed from the game Jake.

Replace out and make the mod's decision easy.

[Slandaar]

I don't understand how you know I have played with DJ before.

VOTE: Jake

Both of you got your main scumreads flipped they both flipped town. Want to sheep me now?

[Slandaar]

I didn't really think Grey was scum he just annoyed me.

VOTE: Grey

The funny thing is Jake after all the walls about read lists being terrible has in fact posted his reads. If I have to lynch through the idiots to get scum lynched then that is what we will do.

The point on Jake stands the whole argument was about a read list and then later on he himself posted his entire town list which is in essence what he argued was so terrible.

[Slandaar]

I said ALL and you said you had 2.

You lied or you are lying now.

GOOD BYE SCUMBAG.

[Slandaar]

Not sure if I have any strong town reads. Jklm obviously be default, certainly not cause of content. Ald is a slight town read. The rest are null

Above: Jake listing ALL of his townreads

Being asked for my 2 reads =/= giving a list read of the entire player list.

Jake saying this is not the same as giving a read list.

Well it is because all of his points against read lists are that the posting of townreads is bad go and look at the reasons he states; after all you have to post scumreads.

Lynch him now, this should never have taken so long.

[Slandaar]

Please ignore me while I lynch you and stop replying, thank you for your cooperation. Or did you lie about that also?

[Slandaar]

I like how it is now proven you have time to post but havn't managed any content since game started.

[Slandaar]

Why didn't you replace out when you knew this would just continue and clearly were far too wound up to play?

Town replace out for the good of the town.

That is why Jake is scum in one line.

[Slandaar]

Jake only posts defensively, all his posts on me are just him trying to deny my points rather than actually make points himself.

[Slandaar]

Which is why his activity was nearly 0 before I went after him.

[Slandaar]

you were lying and misrepping me which points to scum behavior.

I also pointed out that your case on jklm was bad and even explained that lying ... was actually null.

How do people not see these things? it is so obvious.

Complete double standards.

[Slandaar]

as I said before, promising to catch up and failing to deliver =/= the same thing as saying a person said something they didn't say.

so yes there is a double standard. Not following through on catching up = laziness. Saying a person said something, or implying a person said something they didn't say = scum intent.

JKLM did that too when he voted you.

Funny.

[Slandaar]

Not what you said previously. How strange.

That isn't even going into how awful the argument is in the first place.

[Slandaar]

And I wake up to a lovely couple pages of two people going back and forth.

I think you should Vote JKLM

[Slandaar]

VOTE: JKLM

[Slandaar]

Everyone list the 3 people they think are scum; I will start

Jake/JKLM/Iam

Jake goes next; then Iam/JKLM/Yiley then everyone else.

[Slandaar]

The why doesn't matter because you will just argue it as evidenced by this entire game.

Don't stall too long Jake.

[Slandaar]

All town.

How about you explain your reads on Iam, Yiley and JKLM without referencing them in relation to anyone else.

[Slandaar]

Why?

[Slandaar]

Oh.

OHHH.

OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.

You should have said you were still in primary school it explains a lot.

[Slandaar]

You overrate how much respect you deserve.

[Slandaar]

I am not replacing out on principle if I was the one who acted like you I guarantee I would have left by now.

I made my position clear; I don't want you in the game you should show the respect I deserve and replace out.

[Slandaar]

fuck off and die

[Slandaar]

Well I didn't kill Don, I would never commit such a terrible sin, therefore I have deduced...

VOTE: Username

In other news Jake decided to vote a lurker who is a townread of his with his scumreads instead of continue to vote PV his actual scumread who is also a lurker.

EG you are not given enough credit for how intelligent you actually are. Unfortunately Jake makes the kill if I 'can't' track him therefore I am tracking Jake and you will have to take it on good faith I won't lie about my result.

[Slandaar]

Eh seriously though Username is scum because town don't complain about their scumread getting vigged.

[Slandaar]

I was voting you long after you offered a 1v1.

I also see you still have not explained any of your reads Jake, why is this? all mine are explained.

[Slandaar]

since nobody will vote with me.

(except Iam who he is now voting probably not a good way to encourage people to vote with you)

I am only voting username cause it seems that emo has info which means if she is wright, then I am wrong about one of the people on my list.

So he is only voting username because he thinks EG is a PR with a guilty result of some kind and this means he is wrong on one of the people on his list. So he is voting not because he thinks she has a guilty result but because he would be wrong about one of the people on his list lol.

Why does he even think she is a PR in the first place (hes scum with Iam)

[Slandaar]

loljakeisascumbag.

[Slandaar]

I didn't vote Ald.

Do you all realise Jake has not explained any of his reads? his read on me is based on a lie which he covered up by throwing a little temper tantrum with a lot of swearing and obscene behaviour which for some reason means he is still in the game.

[Slandaar]

And then he is telling us how EG was outed D1 and I cannot possibly be town if I am not nked yet EG a PR wasn't (his POV) making his argument... well it shows how well thought out it is.

[Slandaar]

Which of my reads are you saying I won't find a quote for in my ISO Jake? be specific.

Why don't you get the quotes to show the reads explained as I asked then if you have done 2/3.

[Slandaar]

I also don't think I ever said anything about you can't be town since you weren't nk'd

We are talking about tonight, so, yes you did.

[Slandaar]

I did not ask for those reads; try again.

You know I explained JKLM you literally admit to it so what exactly were you doing? refusing to answer questions for what reason?

[Slandaar]

If you aren't dead and you actually get a result, you are getting lynched because there is no way scum is leaving a town power role alive unless they have a role blocker.

Jakescum cannot even remember his newest case on moi. It speaks volumes to the sheer thought he puts into it and how he actually does mean a word he says.

[Slandaar]

Jake throwing a hissy fit

Sland posts:

Alignment indicator does mean scum. I even said that if I was using it as an alignment indicator I would have voted you.

YOU may think so.
I DO NOT. YOU USE MY MEANING WHEN I AM POSTING NOT YOURS.

So, you must show where I (NOT YOU) said that if you are saying I said it is.

Good job your entire case was misunderstanding me.

I never said alignment indicator = scum. Misrepping me the entire time in other words.

Alignment indicator does mean scum. I even said that if I was using it as an alignment indicator I would have voted you.

No it doesn't.

Your whole case relies on it so I understand the reluctance to accept it.

I never said alignment indicator=scum. In MY posts I use MY definition of the term not whatever yours is. This is common sense.

What are you arguing this for Jake?

As we can see, Jake then threw a fit an never explained this.

So, let us return to it.

Where did I ever say Alignment indicator=scum Jake? or do you admit your ENTIRE CASE IS BASED ON YOU MISREPPING ME?

[Slandaar]

You asked me for my top 3 scum reads right? You/ hop/Peregeine are my top 3 so yeah you did ask for them.

Uh no.

You didn't explain your other 2 reads.

I did not explain my read on you?

VOTE: Jake

No point in going further this says everything.

[Slandaar]

I like how your definition of the term scummy has changed.

[Slandaar]

But scummy doesn't mean scum.

I can't find the exact quote but does everyone remember about how Jake was going on and on about scummy doesn't mean scum and doesn't have anything to do with people being scum?

Now I present you;

Your case on me wasn't a case (lies and misreps aren't a case) and

you didn't even show me doing anything scummy

, you didn't explain username and your reasons weren't good enough for jklm so no you didn't really explain your reads.

Apparently it does now.

Ta-Da! Proven Scum.

Good Day Jakescum enjoy the hanging.

[Slandaar]

Yiley what is your read on JKLM?

[Slandaar]

Watch the magic;

1. Thinks that because he and I have a different opinion about list reads, because my opinion doesn't match his I must be scum which is bullshit.

Lies, get the quote which says this.

The argument was always very simple; I make read lists (fact) therefore if I make a readlist it has no bearing on my alignment. You changed your read based on something that is factually null for me.

Motivation for doing this is clearly scum.

Basically Jake has a problem with posting townreads and even though I have proven I do it all the time he thinks its alignment related which it cannot possibly be so hes scum.

2. says my personal opinion is a lie, he can say he disagrees with me but in no way is what I said a lie

No the quote doesn't say that, I believe you believe your read list stuff, but I have shown it is not relevant here thus you using it as relevant is what makes you scum.

3. he actually admits that him doing a list read should mean he is town because he only ever does them as town (Caution, the bolded part of the below quote as it was made is actually a true definition of a trust tell and is a violation of site rules

Nope, never said this. Quote is required.

NOTE: IF JAKE BELIEVED THIS WHY WOULD HE THINK I AM SCUM? (he wouldn't; hes scum)

Actually in that scenario it proves I am town because I only ever do them as town.

I found a game where he did it as scum so the above is obviously not true

lol

IN THAT SCENARIO means that if the scenario were true it would mean I am town but the scenario is not true.

Jake is just making stuff up.

but the fact that he said that he only ever does list reads as town after that statement means he is using it as a trust tell which proves he is scum to me.

lol.

Jake thinks I have a trust tell which I used in this game which makes me town because that is how trust tells work; thus I am scum.

Uh no.
(it isn't a trust tell in the first place but the point remains)

4. tries to use the Thanksgiving holiday and my inactivity around the holiday against me which is bullshit cause I was legitimately busy with family

Cool story. Thanksgiving doesn't exist in my country so why would I factor it in?

5. Lies about me trying to discredit him before he votes me, all I did was say I found a game where he made a list read as scum thus proving

his earlier statement about him only doing it as town

was false, but somehow that is discrediting him?

Get the Quote where I say this Jake, its getting embarassing.

6. Flat out lie because as I said before if I was using it as a scumtell I would have voted him, I didn't so thus this is a lie.

Jake is misrepping the entire situation, I have one definition of scumtell he another, which he knows but continues to use his here on my wording even after knowing I use a different meaning.

Thus JAKE is the one lying.

Jake is using something which is null as a scumtell.

7. an entire series of posts where he tries to play mind games trying to find ways to twist my words regarding alignment related/scummy/anti-town (I won't quote them all cause I do need to go to bed soon)

Uh no, that quote is what I have been saying and you kept twisting things.

8. He made a statement that Yiley was in a tight spot and got out of it but when 2 people questioned him about it, he tries to brush it off as not important. If was important enough for him to mention he should have been able to answer. A townie wouldn't do that imo

I have answered that, so?

9. He made it a point to ask me who I thought was town only to turn that back around on me. This isn't a townie mindset, this is a malicious scum mindset

It was a trap, sure, but town set traps scum fall into them.

which is classic deflection. Not to mention a bold face lie on 2 parts, 1. I never said I didn't have time to post and 2. I have posted content

Deflecting what? that I caught you? OK.

11. 915 - I ask him where he got the idea that I didn't have time to post, 916 he ignores the question and instead tries to imply that because I didn't replace out of the game I must be scum because a townie would have replaced out.

like seriously?

Yep.

12. 921 is a bold face lie, as I had more posts and more game related content than he did before he went after me

Nope. I meant day start obviously. Nice try though misrepping me.

13. Not to mention he falsely accused jklm of saying something that he didn't say and when push comes to shove he tries to get me to change my vote to JKLM because he did something similar.

Good argument.

16. post 1036. "I would never kill Don" and abandons his top scum read because the town pr is saying that either him or username killed don. This reaks of scared scum and again it shows he cares too much about his appearance.

lol, that was joke reasoning obviously so nice misrep.

OK, Jake thinks that saying someone said something they didn't is scum;

QUOTES JAKE MUST PRODUCE

1. Me saying posting read lists makes me town
2. Me saying him suggesting posting a list of reads is anti town makes him scum.
3. Where I said Alignment Indicator = scum

Bear in mind; Jake thinks I used a trust tell which makes me town and thus thinks I am scum. (doesn't make sense does it?)

Its kinda ridiculous at this point. He posts a lot, but everything is lies and misrepping me it is very obvious he is scum.

[Slandaar]

Everyone does understand that?

Half of jakes points are saying I used a trust tell which means I MUST 100% be town but because I am town due to using a trust tell I am not town.

lol

[Slandaar]

Got those quotes yet Jake to support what you are saying?

[Slandaar]

Well that is strange.

Really strange.

I was so sure you would produce all the quotes showing I have said what you say in your case, quite frankly I am shocked.

[Slandaar]

1.

wait, are you saying you only do list reads as town? cause if so you are violating site rules with regards to trust tells. So the fact that you do list reads can't be used to prove squat.

Actually in that scenario it proves I am town because I only ever do them as town.

BOOM

Nope we have covered this previously.

Jake: You are using a trust tell? you must be scum!!!
Sland: uh in the scenario I am it makes me town.

Taking things out of context is very town though. I am clearly talking about your interpretation not saying it is a trust tell.

Try again.

2.

Basically Jake has a problem with posting townreads and even though I have proven I do it all the time he thinks its alignment related which it cannot possibly be so hes scum.

3. I will admit this one is hard to do because he actually never actually comes out and says "alignment related = scum" but he does essentially say this (and variations of this) through the entire game.

Translation: he never said it.

And I never did, Jake is changing the wording of my posts.

The way he is implying it over and over again implies that I am using that to think he is scum and that never happened.

Nope.

Translation: Sland never said this.

I used it to doubt my read on him though and I have even admitted this over and over.

This is what I used in my case very clearly.

maybe I have my definition wrong on a trust tell but from the wiki this is what you did when you said you only do list reads as town (which I have proven is a lie cause I found you doing it as scum)

"The player insists that they only do this behavior as a certain alignment, and never as any other alignment."

and this is what i feel you are doing

The player insists that they only do this behavior as a certain alignment, and never as any other alignment.
The player, over the course of multiple games, only does this behavior as a certain alignment, and never as any other alignment.

You have insisted that you only do this as town and you even point to games where you did it as town.

and this is what I feel like you are doing this game

The purpose of a trust tell is not to break it at some point in the future and coast on it to win. It's far more effective to keep it up indefinitely, as it will "prove" the player's alignment in game after game.

.

I never said it was a trust tell and explicitly said I do it as scum.

Keep up with the lies though Jake.

[Slandaar]

Somehow I missed this;

2. Me saying him suggesting posting a list of reads is anti town makes him scum.

2.

Basically Jake has a problem with posting townreads and

even though I have proven I do it all the time he thinks its alignment related

which it cannot possibly be so hes scum.

They don't say remotely the same thing.

Key difference; the bolded makes Jake scum because he has changed his read based on something which is provably null (bolded emphasises this)

[Slandaar]

Actually in that scenario it proves I am town because I only ever do them as town.

btw this is a lie cause here is a game where he does it as scum - http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=30226

Yes good job taking quotes out of context.

My theory is read lists=good. As town I follow my theory and post read lists because they are good

as scum I do it too

because I do it as town.

I clearly said as scum I post read lists, so, your point is?

[Slandaar]

Jakes definition of SCUMMY: (the quote I was looking for earlier)

it just means bad or anti-town, and cause you will probably ask, anti-town means doing something that I feel is not helpful to the town. Making a list read is something that fits that criteria for the reasons I have already given.

He made big fuss that I was misrepping him by thinking he was using scummy as something scum do. Everyone remembers that, they must do, so;

Your case on me wasn't a case (lies and misreps aren't a case) and

you didn't even show me doing anything scummy

, you didn't explain username and your reasons weren't good enough for jklm so no you didn't really explain your reads.

We can very clearly see he is using Scummy how I was previously which he made a HUGE FUSS about. His use of the word has changed.

He is scum.

Lynch him.

[Slandaar]

Its all in my ISO.

Going to be explaining the reads I asked for anytime soon?

[Slandaar]

Don't worry Jake I wasn't planning on trapping you again. I love how you are worried about falling into a 'trap' though looks really town.

I have posted them you even know what they are but suggest I have not posted any reasoning because you don't like the reasons given which is just lying.

Watch;
I don't like your reasoning therefore you have posted none

So explain your scumreads Jake.

[Slandaar]

btw this post blew my mind.

It was pretty obvious.

But you knew this already as she didn't die n1, good job trying to fake it though.

[Slandaar]

Jake saying this is not the same as giving a read list.

Well it is because

all of his points against read lists are that the posting of townreads is bad

go and look at the reasons he states; after all you have to post scumreads.

Lynch him now, this should never have taken so long

the bolded is actually not true (I want to call it a lie but he will just argue with me some more and I have had enough of it)

It is.

I am going to make a complilation of the 101 lies and misreps Jake has made this game later.

[Slandaar]

I've explained my scum reads, just recently even. Glad you are paying attention. That's very pro- town

I don't like the reasoning so, no, you have not.

Explain your scumreads Jake.

Or are you saying you were lying? I in fact have explained my scumreads?

[Slandaar]

Might still be a regular pr though. Hmm I'm gonna have to think about this.

Think about what? If EG is a full PR? why?

Yiley I see you bowed to Jakes pressure, I am not impressed, vote Jake with me.

[Slandaar]

saying you don't agree with them doesn't mean I haven't done it.

CONGRATULATIONS

HAVE I EXPLAINED MY SCUMREADS JAKE?

YES OR NO ANSWER IS REQUIRED

You on the other hand are actually guilty of doing what you were accusing me of. Using null tells as alignment indicators, especially after I PROVED that at least 1 of your reasons is not a scumtell.

Well it is, you are wrong, thank you for your story though I enjoy being amused.

[Slandaar]

yes I have said over and over again scummy doesn't automatically equal scum. I also don't know 100% that any of the 3 people I am susupicious of are actually scum, but they have done multiple scummy things.

Well considering your definition is that scummy is anti-town or bad, scummy has no bearing on peoples alignment at all so thats nice of you to admit your scumreads are made up.

[Slandaar]

saying you don't agree with them doesn't mean I haven't done it.

but suggest I have not posted any reasoning because you don't like the reasons given which is just lying.

When do we lynch Jake?

[Slandaar]

You didn't answer my question Jake

Yes or No answer

Then I will go compile some quotes. Want to lie and say I havn't? or want to admit lying about me not posting reasoning? (its better to just own up)

[Slandaar]

You didn't answer my question Jake

Yes or No answer

Then I will go compile some quotes. Want to lie and say I havn't? or want to admit lying about me not posting reasoning? (its better to just own up)

[Slandaar]

Awwwww Poor Jakescum throwing his toys out the pram again.

He maliciously lied about me not posting reasoning then when I turned it round on him well... his reaction is rather comical.

[Slandaar]

FACT: I have posted reasoning, Jake knows this.
FACT: Jake says: I disagree with your reasoning so you have not explained.
FACT: I say well I have explained you just don't like it
FACT: Jake argues
FACT: I say I don't like Jakes reasoning so he hasn't explained (to show what Jake is doing)
FACT: Jake says he has explained I just don't like it (predictably)
FACT: Sland says: then I have also explained, you therefore lied suggesting I have not.
FACT: Jake throws tantrum because he has been caught again.

[Slandaar]

I especially like the part where Jake throws little hissy fits every time he is caught to try and get out of it.

Kind of like the alignment indicator argument previously which has now been proven Jake was misrepping and lying the entire time.

[Slandaar]

saying you don't agree with them doesn't mean I haven't done it.

CONGRATULATIONS

HAVE I EXPLAINED MY SCUMREADS JAKE?

YES OR NO ANSWER IS REQUIRED

You didn't answer my question Jake

Yes or No answer

Simple Request;

I'm not talking to you anymore this game. You misrep everything I say so take your questions and shove then up your a**.

Good day.

WAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH WAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH YOU MISREP ME YOU MISREP ME WAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH I NO TALK TO YOU ANYMORE NANANANA

[Slandaar]

Anyways lets lynch Username

VOTE: Username

I suggest you sheep me Jake. I will drop my grudge on you as long as you stop being moronic, I am town, if you suggest anything other than this after this post there is no return, your choice, drop things immediately, call me town, sheep me. Username went completely quiet as soon as I voted you again. Had votes -> Posted -> Pressure left -> Vanished.

[Slandaar]

You wish to continue?

OK; Jake is found guilty of wanting to continue the most anti-town conversation ever.

He is scum

VOTE: Jake

[Slandaar]

I said I was going embarrass you and I did.

Oh you sure did Jake you got me. (lolididntreadyourpostIamsureitsfullofliesandmisrepsthough)

Making a case to lynch my top scumread isn't anti-town.

It is at this point.

I do like how you tried to buddy me and when that didn't work you vote me again.

Yep that clearly is what happened.

[Slandaar]

The original argument explained in depth on Jake and what Jake has argued is a misrep and lies for 40 pages;

I explained multiple times that actually what he said doesn't apply (in different ways)

Referring to read lists being scummy from Jakes POV.

but he obviously isn't actually trying to read people and is just taking the easy path of 'anti town is scum' when the two are completely different things.

Even after I have shown Jake that posting read lists is null for me he has still changed his read towards scum based on something he perceives as anti-town. But it doesn't apply to me, Jake knows this, so he has not adjusted his read correctly (it should not have changed) thus he is scum.

For completeness:

(this is ignoring the fact posting read lists isn't anti town in the first place)

Very clearly there are No lies and no misreps. Jake has argued this for 40 pages now.

Jake is scum.

[Slandaar]

lol

[Slandaar]

Not a scumslip; I did question it but that is probably lost. Jake was OK with it though.

[Slandaar]

The 'insult' being I said he modded terribly. Not really an insult just my opinion.

I replaced out due to the way he dealt with my scumbuddy being pressured by people to replace out for being bad at the game which is completely ridiculous hence terrible modding.

When he says I am blacklisted its more like he knows I would never play in a game modded by him again so he blacklisted me.

[Slandaar]

It's funny because somehow he thinks in that game I had some ulterior motive to want to keep my scumbuddy in the game who was under a lot of pressure instead of get him replaced for someone stronger. There is never a reason to force someone out of the game for being bad, the mod considering it is unacceptable and this is Jake. He did mod it badly.

The end.

[Slandaar]

Jake is like a 5year old kid who can't take criticism.

[Slandaar]

I set the record straight after your malicious lie.

Did you think it was clever trying to make it sound like I acted badly in said game?

[Slandaar]

It is very obvious now though based on how you worded it that you do in fact hold a grudge. I did wonder, it was funny how when you 'remembered who I was' you were calling me scum.

[Slandaar]

He wasn't violating any rules.

It is quite rich coming from you though.

[Slandaar]

Jake should not still be in the game.

He broke site rules

[Slandaar]

I made it very clear I wasn't happy with him. He tries to turn it on me as if I can replace. That isn't how it works, he is the one who went way too far he therefore should go if I say I am unhappy with it.

He now continues the shirade.

Explain to me why I should put up with him after his insulting behaviour?

[Slandaar]

since I apologized and later warned by the mod I have done nothing wrong nor have I violated any game or site rule.

Put it like this: there is clearly still an issue your apology did not suffice.

You should not still be in the game as I am not happy with your behavior and as your personal attacks were aimed at me I should have say in if you remain in the game. This is really just common sense. I won't replace out due to it amounting to you bullying me out. I told you to graciously replace out at the time but you didn't. Why? because you have no respect for anyone else.

[Slandaar]

I even gave you the chance to get out of this but you didn't take it and wanted to continue.

Now let us see you spin this to try to save face.

[Slandaar]

You should really pm the mod and complain to him. He saw your request and he saw my apology and felt that was enough to issue me a warning. Since that time I have done nothing wrong, even after you insult me by calling me a 5 year old and saying I must be in primary school.

Obviously I am needling you at every opportunity at this point. The way you worded the prior game was clearly to make me look bad though, right? Did I insult you? no, did I annoy you by suggesting I think you modded badly? yes. What is the point in having feedback if all you accept is the positive feedback?

Why did you even bring it up in the first place? it is a non issue really I don't care your ability to mod good or bad is no reflection on you as a person so It literally has no bearing on anything.

I am playing the game, I am trying to get my number 1 scum read lynched and i will not stop until you are lynched or I am dead.

Its obvious you just want to lynch me due to the grudge you hold. Which hilariously you deny and I don't believe for a second. It does all make sense though; you thought I insulted you and so here you tried to get even.

Sad really.

[Slandaar]

Jake is VI or scum.

Place your bets everyone.

[Slandaar]

Avoiding it for a day is not moving on it is delaying.

This is my opinion on moving on;

Though I do like how you tried to buddy me and when that didn't work you vote me again.

Laughable. That time has passed now; you missed the boat.

[Slandaar]

Why have you not replaced out yet? serious question.

[Slandaar]

I want to know. Do you feel that if you do I 'win'? it is not about this, it is about me not being able to play with you in a rational way and due to the fact YOU went way too far YOU should replace and I refuse to.

Obviously you are fine playing with me because apparently you don't hold a grudge and I said nothing wrong. You can't see it from my POV which is that I am not happy and you long ago should have respected my wishes and left instead you continue the farce.

[Slandaar]

Issues do not get resolved by hiding from them.

[Slandaar]

Of course.

he acted like a baby and replaced out of my game and after it was over he insulted me and I have blacklisted him from ever playing a game I mod,

Sure reads like you have no issue with me.

but I obviously didn't let that bother me because I had a town read on him early on in this game.

This is a lie because at this point he didn't realise who I was.

At least stop lying Jake.

[Slandaar]

l.
15) Be nice, and try to enjoy yourself.

You are an idiot fuck off and die

So go fuck yourself and don't talk to me again ever

Not acceptable. Replace him please.

[Slandaar]

PLEASE LYNCH THIS ASSHOLE ALREADY

As we can see Jake was being personal.

This should have been his first warning

Get rid of him.

[Slandaar]

Like he can't even admit it, it is embarassing.

His whole game as soon as he realised who I was has been trying to 'get even'

This is clearly not acceptable.

[Slandaar]

Unfortunately this game involves a lot of talking. And I can accuse him of it because it is clearly what has happened, it isn't one huge coincidence don't be naive.

Jake: admit I am town.

[Slandaar]

I don't know your alignment, though

YOUR PLAY IN THIS GAME

suggest you are not town.

Nope it doesn't.

I am town.

Say it with me.

[Slandaar]

Haven't misrepped you once.

You have misrepped me by continually imposing your meanings onto my wording though and then suggesting I am misrepping.

The original argument explained in depth on Jake and what Jake has argued is a misrep and lies for 40 pages;

I explained multiple times that actually what he said doesn't apply (in different ways)

Referring to read lists being scummy from Jakes POV.

but he obviously isn't actually trying to read people and is just taking the easy path of 'anti town is scum' when the two are completely different things.

Even after I have shown Jake that posting read lists is null for me he has still changed his read towards scum based on something he perceives as anti-town. But it doesn't apply to me, Jake knows this, so he has not adjusted his read correctly (it should not have changed) thus he is scum.

For completeness:

(this is ignoring the fact posting read lists isn't anti town in the first place)

Very clearly there are No lies and no misreps. Jake has argued this for 40 pages now.

Jake is scum.

The bolded is the case show what you think I am misrepping.

I am town, what are you bothering to play mafia for if you can't even see this?

[Slandaar]

Massclaim and when I am conftown lynch Jake as a PL.

Go.

Hops first.

[Slandaar]

mass claim day two?

Yep

It sorts everything out, I become conftown, Jake gets PL'ed, you want PR's to claim so lets do it.

Claim

[Slandaar]

Even if you are town you are such a huge detriment that it is beneficial to lynch you.

Let me sum up Jakes play;
Jake: WHAT YOU MISREP ME
X: uh no
Jake: MISREP LIES
X: No you are just misrepping me actually
Jake: MISREPS OMG OMG

As everyone can see there is no misreps in my original case therefore I have proven that instead of discussing things Jake just crys wolf or in this case misrep/lie every single time you communicate with him thus he is no use to the town as he isn't thinking about things or trying to understand what people are actually saying.

Massclaim I become conftown lynch Jake.

Then we can enjoy the rest of what is left of the game.

[Slandaar]

I implore everyone to read this post and tell me if you think this isn't the stonewall truth of this game;

Returning to the roots.

I am not pretending anything, my read DID change on you and I have never denied that fact. My read changed because of the list read, i have not denied that. My read on you changed from Town to null/scummy as evident from my post and the fact that you quoted that post yourself.

Which is what my case is based on.

The lie occurs when you say my read changed from town to scum read which has been proven not true. When someone says something that has been proven not true, that means it was either a mistake or a lie. I don't think you made a mistake because you repeated it despite being proven wrong, which makes it a lie.

You need to all realise; I never said this. It was never anything to do with anything I literally don't have a clue what he is talking about.

So where is Jakes case on me at this point? (it doesn't exist)

Thanks for playing and proving that you are the liar and not me, you so not get any parting gifts.

Ridiculous honestly.

And then he shows us I said it;

The lie is I never suggested that but good try.

let's go to the tape shall we?

Basically Jake has a problem with posting townreads and even though I have proven I do it all the time

he thinks its alignment related

@slandar -

if I thought it was alignment related my vote would be on you.

Nice misrep

Damn my 1 townread just did the most anti-town thing ever.

Ok so accordion to you it's a null tell but I look at the act as anti-town and I can't town read someone doing something anti-town. So you will just be

null to slightly scummy

and I'll keep an eye on you. Mmkay?

Goodbye Jake.

your post where you bold my "null to slightly scummy" and you then post "goodbye jake" is absolutely you suggesting that.

now we lynch you ok?

As we can see I DID NOT say what Jake said I did. Proven. He is suggesting I said it by imposing his meaning of things onto my wording which I have said many times now.

Alignment related means this;
The read changed one way or another. (if a read changes based on X you are using X in your read this means you think it is related to alignment)

Thats it.

This is literally what Jake is arguing all game with me when I have been trying to reword it to see if hes town and you know hes not because he just crys foul every single time using his meaning of words instead of mine.

[Slandaar]

And here is a very key point:
IT DOES NOT MATTER IF JAKE THINKS READ LISTS ARE THE BIGGEST SCUMTELL IMAGINEABLE

Clearly if I always make them then it is not a scumtell for me and is something to ignore. I have proven I do them all the time, Jake DID NOT react correctly to this.

He is scum.

Massclaim and PL him.

[Slandaar]

I also don't like how he has been suggesting I am breaking site rules all game when I clearly have not been. It just is not acceptable behaviour. There clearly isn't a trust tell there, I never said there was or suggested it was. His only argument that I did comes from me mocking him saying it is a trust tell and calling me scum which is laughably contradictory.