Mini 1530 - Guyett's Paranoid Geology Trip GAME OVER

[Titus]

I saw this player list and I had to /in. Most of you I've only seen in marathons and some of you are in hydras I haven't played with. Welcome.

Btw, I'm a chick and yeah that's a female mafia member in my AV. Moving on. (A)

[Titus]

I have issues with Kaze so far. Kaze's not a newb and would know better than to push the whole thing he gains credit for. Not sure sure Kaze's town. I just speed read and I also want to sort ETL/mastin (Taylor) relatively quickly.

Jingle, thanks for the complement.

Ok I'm voting tool... screw that ATM

VOTE: unvote

[Titus]

Jingle marathons are totally different animals and meta is bad enough as it is. You can grab personality but not much else.

[Titus]

Jingle, your hyper defensive is alarming. I don't think marathons are applicable here.

[Titus]

Eww...start with this defensive attitude.

[Titus]

I am also concerned about why I live if conftown... That does point towards Kaze town.

[Titus]

Jingle, worrying about alienating me is the best way to alienate me. I am fully capable of analyzing statements for their validity. I can spot an appeal to emotion, like you and Kaze are doing very well (note both town and scum do that). To tailor a case to me, use words literally. Avoid ambiguity. Then if your case is sound, I will likely follow. If your case is valid, we will have no problems. If I believe you believe your case is valid, we'll have no problems. I don't always have town reads as agreement. For instance, I hate meta and it looks to me like you love it. That tells me, if we agree someone is scum, they most likely are.

Kaze, I'm someone who hates a bunch of compliance. I want to throw out a theory and have people tear it apart. I want feedback more than yes or no. You're right or you're wrong. Attack my points. I don't take it personal.

While I look at shos, will you both tell me if there are any claims (if you're still here).

Just because I am conftown doesn't mean I am right. Just trust I won't lie to you without GOOD reason.

[Titus]

Meh. Don't worry about the word. Answer my questions with solid logical points, and we should be fine. There's no need for defense so early. My tone will usually indicate if I'm being aggressive or just highlighting an observation. Any questions just ask.

[Titus]

I looked over the shos case. I don't find it persuasive but I don't find your case as scummy. It has a lot of the same ate you've been presenting so far but the play is acceptable. I will have to look deeper at context but shos could be town.

[Titus]

Kaze, what do you think of Jingle? Naoi? Taylor?

[Titus]

Naio is likely town. I like shos for town as well. Checking the other major wagons.

[Titus]

Why is your read on tool stale?

[Titus]

Shos, if you're rereading from daystart, shouldn't you know I am conftown?

[Titus]

ETL, I am in agreement with solving Jingle/EK. I would like you to take the lead in solving him as it would help me get a read on your slot and mastin as well.

[Titus]

Unvote PinkMittens. He's probably town.

[Titus]

@Shos, His meta matches for now. I doubt a newbie like him (as judged by join date although he has experience elsewhere) could fake it so well.

I'll check tool tomorrow.

@Kaze, who do you support as a good candidate for lynching?

[Titus]

Meta from that game. Look at the early introductions. Questions to the group. Here, skimming the Iso again, questions to the group.

[Titus]

Kazr, why do you feel the meta is similar? What vote is the Christmas vote? Why is it so bad? What post is your NK analysis on? If that analysis was off, why can't the meta analysis?

Shos, all accurate statements, usually. Yet the pattern just is too close to be anything but town. If he lurks or does something scummy, I will reasses. What is your beat on TSO, Kaze?

[Titus]

Shos, my light is shining on you. Answer my question. What do you feel about TSO/Kaze?

[Titus]

@PM After Kaze posts his thoughts on TSO, I'll probably say how I feel about TSO generally.

However, I'm not going into much depth the way I usually do. The longer scum think I will mislynch town, the longer I live, even if I use the socratic to be sure we lynch scum. Your question is a fair question and I'd give a lot more detail if I wasn't conftown.

[Titus]

Tool I've acknowledged a one game meta case is weak. *plays cards close to the vest* Pink's probably town.

[Titus]

Tool, we aren't lynching Naio or Pink today.

This was me. Sorry.

[Titus]

Kaze, please get off that fenceshit within 24 hours. Thanks.

[Titus]

Screw this.

VOTE: Jingle

[Titus]

@PM After Kaze posts his thoughts on TSO, I'll probably say how I feel about TSO generally.

However, I'm not going into much depth the way I usually do. The longer scum think I will mislynch town, the longer I live, even if I use the socratic to be sure we lynch scum. Your question is a fair question and I'd give a lot more detail if I wasn't conftown.

You haven't particularly veiled your read on me, Titus. And neither has Kaze.

Let's stop the elaboration.

Tool, we aren't lynching Naio or Pink today.

Wrong. Completely wrong, in fact.

Actually, I'm townreading you.

[Titus]

Kaze, please get off that fenceshit within 24 hours. Thanks.

I'll probably end up voting TSO. What's with the Jingle vote business?

I think Jingle's scum or I want to see him under pressure. Do you think I am wrong?

You jump from TSO's actions are town to wanting to vote him pretty quickly. That's pretty scummy.

[Titus]

TSO, other than OMGUS, what reasoning do you have for PM to die? From my spot, y'all look like TvT.

[Titus]

PM's case is good.

That was the point where I stopped believing you, Kaze.

TSO, your thoughts on Jiffy?

Specifically Jiffy/Kaze?

[Titus]

By "Jiffy" I mean Jingle. Bah....

[Titus]

TSO, stop tunnelling PM for a minute and answer my question please.

What do you think of Jingle/Kaze together and separate?

[Titus]

So that's answering Jingle I presume as you find Kaze scummy?

[Titus]

PM, It doesn't matter if I dislike EK or Jingle. They are the same slot. Replacements only tell me whether something is a player style thing or not.

Please trust me on TSO town for now... You two look textbook TvT.... TSO this goes for you two as well. If the three of us are alive at the end game, I'll sort you two out then. If you two keep having tunnel vision on each other, scums will be prime to take you both to the end game to be reliable votes on each other. Just table each other as scum reads for now. Plus, you gain a lot more information with associatives when the target is actually talking about someone else without pulling teeth.

[Titus]

Well the fact you referred to Jingle as EK says you should reread Jingle. Kaze, you'll need to highlight what you're seeing as no idea. We can work through that together.

Taylor isn't posting enough for me to develop my own independent read of the slot. Can you tell me why Taylor's prob town?

[Titus]

Also, if ETL and Mastin could step up and start talking, that'd be swell.

Why do you have someone who isn't talking to your satisfaction as a townread?

[Titus]

previous play indicates town.

Specifics please.

[Titus]

Tso has started to wierd me out... I will explain asap

Was me. Gotta run.

[Titus]

Tso has started to wierd me out because a) He has Kaze as a nullread but only says scummy thing about him but for one point. B) His Taylor read. One post usually doesn't make a townread. C) the comment as to who is lynchable struck me as off d) the questions he asks Kaze "Is this true?", what else is he going to say but yeah.

Kaze, You don't jump in two posts...

[Titus]

VOTE: TSO

[Titus]

ETL, given Tool's status as a near universal scumread, who do you think his partners? Also, assume tool is not scum, who is?

[Titus]

I'd like to see some more votes out there so i can start getting better reads. Even though i say it every post, i still like a tool lynch. i might be hypocritical saying he isnt contributing much, but that doesn't mean i'm not correct.

Why would votes help? Sometimes the lack of a vot can giveaway scum.

Also, why tool?

[Titus]

Ok shos, if I cannot convince you PM is town, look at the wagon. TSO, my biggest scumread AND tool, a near universal scumread.

[Titus]

Kazr, why do you feel the meta is similar? What vote is the Christmas vote? Why is it so bad? What post is your NK analysis on? If that analysis was off, why can't the meta analysis?

[irrelevant text of wall ommitted]

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Anyway, TSO? I have him as a very, very slight lean town due to mainly his "I don't give a fuck" attitude, but yeah. PM's case looks pretty spiffy. I'll think more on it.

Kaze, please get off that fenceshit within 24 hours. Thanks.

I'll probably end up voting TSO. What's with the Jingle vote business?

VOTE: TSO

How did TSO jump from town read to voting him so quickly?

[Titus]

What about TSOs case persuaded you?

[Titus]

Derp.. I mean PM's case on TSO.

[Titus]

All of it? Selfvoting, reaction tests with no follow up, calling me scum while townreading me supposedly, Benmage scum = Kaze scum theory with no explanation given, changing reads for no apparent reason, consistently taking shots at Benmage while never voting him, jumping at people who vote him, et cetera. I'm ready to see TSO hang.

All of this occurred prior to you townreading him. Did you just not notice this prior to PM's case?

[Titus]

My scum pool right now is

{TSO, Kaze, Jingle}

My null/lean town is

{PM, tool, JS, Taylor}

My prob town pool is

{Naio, shos}

[Titus]

Titus, by the way, I lost any respect I had for you. Fucking brutal U-turn. Incredible, really.

You too, Shos. I hope you guys are scum and I can respect you manipulating town. But if you thought PM's case was, idk, convincing. Then leave.

PEdit: please go

PEdit2: If you're Town, will you re-analyse your play after this game? Please? Promise me that.

Your interactions with Kaze make no sense. I explained why and gave a detailed explanation.

How about a real claim TSO?

Why are you hoping I'm scum? Are you paying attention? I'm conftown.

[Titus]

By the way, the personal attack, as town or scum, is not appreciated, TSO.

Shos is town due to his general confusion. He sticks to his reads rather than appeasing me. He reads over the game and posts analysis. There's an outside chance he could be scum, but I don't like him as scum right now.

[Titus]

I relook at every game. You should look at Kaze/TSO interactions as well. They are freaking jump out of your bones wierd. If you can't see that, you need some distance. One of you must be scum.

[Titus]

Town 7-shot Vigilante.

Thinking about this... this really looks like a scum claim. Aside from the petulant nature, which both sides may possess, he says 7 shot vigilante. Who said there were 3 scums?

[Titus]

I'm feeling town ETL from her response to the Tool case. I see a lot of genuine ETL frustration with a town not responding the way she expects to a case in posts 349-362. My one big concern here is that in my experience, ETL tends to post a lot more as both town and scum, and it's kind of messing with my read on her. I expect that to stop being an issue soon though.

Why is shos town? I'm really not seeing anything convincing as to why so many people think he's so towny, and I hate feeling like I'm missing something. Could someone please elaborate a little more than 'Your case is unconvincing; Shos is town.'? Thanks.

Apparently, TSO's promises to contribute more were empty. I can't say I'm shocked, but it is disappointing. After his supervig claim I really don't see him as contributing anything at this point. That means at worst we lynch a useless townie and at best we get a scum-lynch. Either way, enough people have voiced enough opinions on his wagon that I don't think there's a better option for today in terms of information. I intend to put him at L-1 and thus self-hammer range, unless someone has objections.

Also, fuck my internet connection. I've been trying to post this for almost an hour now.

I. Did. Contribute. I showed you scum. I made a case. I got done by Titus and shos. Full stop. That's it. Content doesn't have anything to do with it.

If you can stop spouting falsities for a page, that'd be excellent.

This is precisely why I have issues with Jingle. You have been producing content. Your content gives me the chills, so that's why I'm voting you over Kaze.

[Titus]

Explain to me why i shouldnt lybch you for that come on thingie.

Come on, TSO.

IT'S A TURN OF PHRASE.


NOT THE SUPER DUPER SCUMTELL OF GOD YOU MAKE IT OUT TO BE, AND I'M GOING TO BE VINDICATED WHEN I FLIP.

Turns are arguments used by skilled debaters. They are in no form scumtells.

[Titus]

VOTE: unvote

When someone is bolstering my case with bullshit, I'm changing my mind and not voting them at the moment. Yeah, TSO should have claimed but I have to be alarmed by Jingle and Kaze.

VOTE: Kaze

[Titus]

What I posted here yesterday fool.

T S O why the 7 shot claim, what did you hope to achieve?

This is so incredibly cute, when you get called out for shitposting you arrive on-scene with a questiom intended to look useful, but which in theory is pure horseshit.

What do YOU think scum-TSO intended to achieve with a ridiculous claim, Jacob?

I want to know what town-TSO hoped to achieve with something so preposterous.

I won't answer this but the answer should be obvious.

[Titus]

What I posted here yesterday fool.

T S O why the 7 shot claim, what did you hope to achieve?

This is so incredibly cute, when you get called out for shitposting you arrive on-scene with a questiom intended to look useful, but which in theory is pure horseshit.

What do YOU think scum-TSO intended to achieve with a ridiculous claim, Jacob?

I want to know what town-TSO hoped to achieve with something so preposterous.

I won't answer this but the answer should be obvious.

I want to know why T S O has spen the whole game being so anti town.

One question =/= the whole game. By the way, you have been pretty anti town yourself. How about reads?

[Titus]

Note to self... if I'm wrong about PinkMittens, tool is the likely scumbuddy.

Both TSO and Pink were tied at the time, tool jumps off because Pink isn't getting lynched, but doesn't jump on TSO.

It looks like TSO or Pink is the lynch for today. If I had to choose, TSO would be the lynch.

I pretty much want Jingle TSO JS or Kaze lynched today. JS looks to be a sudden change pushed by someone who is at best not reading the thread (sosh).

[Titus]

VOTE: TSO

Deadline too close. Bah. I would rather have Kaze.

[Titus]

Ok so Naio is confirmed town. We should look at him to try and get this done.

Apparently TSO just really wanted to ask pointless questions and be anti-town. I still think we should look at Jingle Kaze but I am open to Tool/Pink Muffins.

Comments please.

[Titus]

Question is why kill Naio over the mod-confirmed townie?

Agreed. It is a little wifom. But the scums not killing me suggests either I have the game wrong, or that's what they want me to think.

[Titus]

My concern is that seemed awfully prepared Kaze.

[Titus]

I don't want to see anything.

Are you liking PM/tool?

[Titus]

By the way, this may be mylo.

[Titus]

What would help you get on that?

Other than me, do you have any reads?

[Titus]

Well let's do a socratic the both of us. I'll start with a position. You'll ask me questions. I won't ask any questions/state any positions involving you. You'll include a position and your question regarding my position. We'll see if we can agree on anything.

Jingle is scum due to his hyperness to suggest Naio scum when I first came in.

[Titus]

There go you. You got the question part. You'll need a statement next time.

When I first came on, I asked for the important events. Jingle highlights Naio claiming fast under pressure. Yet, he didn't push Naoi a lot as scum. That reads scummy in hindsight to me.

What is the most puzzling thing regarding the gamestate for you so far?

[Titus]

Who are those two people off the wagon? Why did you think they were scum? Did you think they were white knighting?

Speculating here... is there a relationship between Jingle and tool?

[Titus]

Don't you think scum would love to keep JacobSavage alive due to the fact he might be policy lynched later, he at least appears to be trying when he does here no?

I'm not sure there is a relationship between Jingle, Tool and PM. It's something I feel needs to be investigated though. We have three scum outstanding probably and this is likely mylo.

[Titus]

If I had to say, Jingle but I don't want to get in confirmation bias.

Gun to your head, one town and one scum read. Who are they?

[Titus]

Why is that the case?

Tool really acted so save PM yesterday near the deadline. A scum player wouldn't have acted in a manner to save one town over another when PM was arguable more likely to disrupt the town no?

[Titus]

Jingle - I get putting yourself as just "Town" but Kaze and Taylor clearly require more analysis. I find it odd that you only elaborate on your scumreads but for PM, which further suggests you are scum with PM. You also actually did what I was implying you did even if my language was inartful. You were implying "under little duress". It does nothing to actually answer the question. You don't say the words "it was scummy" but the best scum never do. Good scum know you can lead a horse (dumb town) to water but you cannot make them drink. If we are on at the same time, I'd like to do the same exercise I did with Kaze with you. It would help me get into your head.

Kaze - Cases and deathtunnells still occur for me as scum. So I can't rule out PM scum due to epic wall case. I understand others doing it though. I usually fool one or two by my sheer aggressive nature as scum. I can say that and sound as scummy as I need to be b/c I'm not scum and everyone knows it.

[Titus]

NL massclaim is the way to go, under the following conditions

1) We use all of the available time, unless someone has a 2-3 day vla, we put night then.
2) Everyone, with me going last, posts a final last will. If we are no lynching, anyone should suppose rightly or wrongly that they are a target. Conftowns live generally when leading the group astray, so absolutely feel ok to disagree with me. Do not be non committal however.
3) I hammer the no lynch.

[Titus]

Just because I am conftown doesn't mean I will die. That's poor reasoning. If the scum think I will lynch their desired target, then they will keep me alive. It's happened before and before in this game, unless the scums think there is a doctor and the doctor won't heal me.

I'll be out later. Maybe tomorrow for that Jingle.

[Titus]

What tool did is a last will Pink Mittens. All of us should post something like that.

Claim order

Jingle
Pink Mittens
Jacob Savage
Taylor
Kaze
tool
shos
Titus


That's not my personal list but it is combined with what I see the group reads list to be.

[Titus]

It's a mini-normal-balanced game. Titus, want me to claim?

Yes.

[Titus]

I was thinking NL then massclaim but I want the mass claim on a day where we nl and can discuss claims rationally. There is a good chance of my death. I was implying NL first but upon reflection, it should be hammerred like this.

[Titus]

One of these two is likely a scumclaim. How are those two balanced together?

Each has their reasons to be worrying. Moving along...

[Titus]

Taylor is up to claim.

[Titus]

I claim very powerful townie who is conftown. :-p Seriously, I am not ccing anyone but I won't say beyond that.

PM, why did you always jailkeep me?

[Titus]

Sorry, we aren't lynching shos.

VOTE: JacobSavage

There's no way a BP and a JK should be in the same setup. None. The scum wouldn't get a kill off. Each one has a reason to suspect the other.

My claim is the magical fairy dust of claims. It's a PR that NEVER CCs anyone.

[Titus]

By the way PM, you are not allowed to Jailkeep me. Ever.

[Titus]

How about :

Mafia Roleblocker
Mafia Goon
Town Jailkeeper
Town 1-Shot BP
5 Vanilla Townies.

That seems fairly balanced to me....

But you claimed two shot bp.

[Titus]

[Titus]

Quite possibly, it did suddenly make a lot of sense of a lot of things.

Like why she is trying to stir up PM and I into a 1v1, why shes alive...

This is literally not possible unless the dead desperado lied about checking my slot. Townies wouldn't lie about that. Flail more please.

[Titus]

Oddly, even though I was wrong. I am fine too. I know why my mistakes were made.

At the end, I was trying to draw the nk and be jailkept again, while creating the impression that I would heal PM.