Mini 1585: Muskoka Murder Mystery - Game Over

[reinoe]

/ confirm

[reinoe]

VOTE: SuperMario

Your username says SuperMario, but your avatar is clearly RaccoonMario.

y u wunt 2 triq us?

[reinoe]

Hi guys. I'm a miller.

Conf town until day 3-4 at which point we can start addressing this claim.

[reinoe]

reinoe: why do I know you? i feel like we recently played, but did not interact much.

Posting from my phone. We played in open 555. Neil was about to get lynched, he claimed Tracker, so we lynched you instead because you were vanilla townie. Neil was scum and our vig shot him night 2. Townies won the game btw.

[reinoe]

You didn't answer the question: where the are all the cookies then?

kushm4sta, Slandaar, and Slainte Mhath stole them during The Golden Cookie Heist!!!

[reinoe]

Let me know when you complete the meta's Broodking. I keep my wikipedia up to date so you can just click on the link instead of looking through my posting history.

[reinoe]

I have a slight town read on Broodking. I'd like to discuss meta with him when he's done researching.

[reinoe]

I have a slight town read on Broodking. I'd like to discuss meta with him when he's done researching.

Why?

post #47 is interesting insight into the game.

I want to confirm that he's actually doing what he says he's doing and that's why I want to discuss meta with him when he's done researching.

[reinoe]

Alright. I've done a quick meta read of the players who have posted:

• Konowa
  - first post is pretty non-alignment indicative. He's never played miller before, and I don't have a problem with him claiming. His posting style is by nature aggressive, looking at his other D1s, I don't really see too much of a different from that style in this game. The tone of his posts when he is town could be played in as scum pretty similarly getting a meta read on him later will require thorough reading.
  
  
• Start
  - I looked at one of his scum games X-Men Mafia and his tone is much more calm and less belligerent than that game.
  
  
• Anine
  - a New player no meta read on him.
  
  
• Super Mario
  - not many games to go on. But he seems as constructive as in Open 517 which he was town. He has changed his tone in the two games he has played drastically.
  
  
• Boonskiies
  - New Player.
  
  
• chaos
  - new player
  
  
• DJ
  - not really too much he has a lot of games, but nothing he's said in this game is similar to what he has said in this one.
  
  
• Jak-Caled
  - Not really a lot here for D1.
  
  
• Jak-Fei
  - Has activity issues sometimes and a varied D1 playstyle.
  
  
• Churve
  - His intro is similar to this gameNY 170 which he was town.

Aww, I feel left out.

[reinoe]

We feel that the wagon is scum-driven. It's a crap wagon.

~F

How many scum on the Boonskies wagon?

[reinoe]

Wait, what? Haha. I've barely posted. Why do I have 3 votes?

Konowa, though, voted for me out of the blue, didn't give any reasons, and then went on and responded to other things. I feel as if he thought that since I was picking up steam on the lynches, he could get a vote right in the middle for him not to look too guilty. Tried just sneaking that vote in. Not only that, he asked for reasonings behind a conclusion made by someone else, and yet he didn't give any for his vote on me. Explain please?

Cursory meta shows that you understand the game. #87 is pretty scumtacular though. But #88 makes me think you are in way over your head.

From D1 posts I feel that Churve, Super, Start, reinoe and possibly DJ are town aligned. As for you Konowa, I see you are scum hunting but have offered little in the way of reads. You're a town read as of now, but I want you to post any reads that you may have.

One of {Aneninen, reinoe, Jakuzure, Super Mario}.

Leaning on reinoe and Jakuzure right now.

Leaning on reinoe and Jakuzure what?

[reinoe]

could someone explain why boon is the leading wagon?

There's at least one scum on the wagon and I'm reviewing meta to see whom it is.

[reinoe]

could someone explain why boon is the leading wagon?

There's at least one scum on the wagon and I'm reviewing meta to see whom it is.

you say one of the people on the wagon is scum yet you vote my slot??? If I didn't know Reinoe did bat shit crazy moon logic you'd have a vote right now

The vote on your slot is rvs

[reinoe]

There's at least one scum on the wagon and I'm reviewing meta to see whom it is.

Wait, what?

unvote;
Vote: reinoe

What's hard to understand?

[reinoe]

oh wait a sec i forgot about this

Hi guys. I'm a miller.

Conf town until day 3-4 at which point we can start addressing this claim.

this actually bugs the shit out of me

What's the appropriate response to a miller claim?

[reinoe]

I get meta, reinoe. But it feels really off to go "hey, I'm reviewing meta to examine this wagon that formed out of RVS". Seems overkill and pointless. Seems like scum wanting to give off the appearance of doing something.

You realize that one of our players has already done just that. And yet you're voting me because I declared I would do my own personal investigation. You've twice voted opportunistically. Miller eh?

[reinoe]

disregard it. it's null.

what's going to magically happen on days 3 or 4 that's going to help you sort it?

Analysis of his play. Although day 4 might be generous. The safest thing would be to policy lynch but that's punishing a player because of the role they got.

[reinoe]

disregard it. it's null.

what's going to magically happen on days 3 or 4 that's going to help you sort it?

Analysis of his play. Although day 4 might be generous. The safest thing would be to policy lynch but that's punishing a player because of the role they got.

...that should be what takes precedence from the get go.

to declare him "conftown until [arbitrary point]" is arbitrary and weird

I suppose. Please forgive me for not handling every new situation like a pro

[reinoe]

"no sane scum would claim miller in their OP"

why not? I ask cause I recall seeing it done at some point... curious for the thought process here.

you're likely to be lynched...as a precaution

How do you figure? You just gave me hell for saying it would be safest to policy lynch the miller.

[reinoe]

i'm changing my stance because I was getting called out on being opportunistic.

Ftfy

[reinoe]

You acknowledge that two of those votes were rvs so you should have put more care in placing your vote to begin with. Two free votes for your bullshit wagon and a questionable reason for your vote to boot.

Let's test that miller claim...

[reinoe]

VOTE: konowa

[reinoe]

What are you even saying here? I found Boonskiies reaction to Misaka's third vote to be scummy. His whining ringed of awkward new scum. So I voted him. How is that opportunistic? How solid do you want my reasoning to be there?

It's opportunistic because you didn't consider he's newbtown until you started getting called out on your vote. You just jumped to newbscum and voted.

[reinoe]

Post 194: what? wait, did reinoe just 180 on his whole "conf town" for Konowa's miller claim?

Sure did. Konowa is acting really scummy and Guyett's "scum would never claim miller because they might get policy lynched" while at the same time..."reinoe said we should policy lynch miller. he's totes scum!!!!!" indicates that it's time to test the miller claim.

[reinoe]

You're also setting up Konowa to be a lynch later in the game for *reasons*

Well, I'm fine with lynching Konowa now too.

[reinoe]

You only seemed fine after being called out on it.

Well that's a myth. I'm ready to test the miller claim because you're being a hypocrite about it.

[reinoe]

Not really. I say he's prob not scum because its a pretty shit scum gambit, you're likely to get vigged or lynched. You say you'd prefer to wait 3-4 days and then lynch him. In 3-4 days we could be in XLo and assuming he is town this looks like you are setting him up to be a XLo mislynch for the win. You got called out on this by a few people and have now decided to push a D1 lynch on him.

Who's going to vig him? Not the mafia if they want to create WIFOM. Who's going to lynch him? Not you apparently.

[reinoe]

I've left this out. My other read on Reinoe is: what's the story about meta-analyzing a wagon containing 50% of random votes?

The meta would be for Misaka network and Konowa. It's no longer necessary given Konowa's conduct.

[reinoe]

I've left this out. My other read on Reinoe is: what's the story about meta-analyzing a wagon containing 50% of random votes?

The meta would be for Misaka network and Konowa. It's no longer necessary given Konowa's conduct.

Erm... excuse me, girls and guys, I know I'm not a native speaker, but, isn't there a difference between "would" and "would have been"?

Welcome to the internet, where even foreigners can be grammer nazi's when it's midnight.

[reinoe]

Not really. I say he's prob not scum because its a pretty shit scum gambit, you're likely to get vigged or lynched. You say you'd prefer to wait 3-4 days and then lynch him. In 3-4 days we could be in XLo and assuming he is town this looks like you are setting him up to be a XLo mislynch for the win. You got called out on this by a few people and have now decided to push a D1 lynch on him.

Who's going to vig him? Not the mafia if they want to create WIFOM. Who's going to lynch him? Not you apparently.

we don't know what roles are in the game so stop speculating. Mafia could if they want to create WIFOM too tbh. If I had a scum read on him I'd lynch him for sure, however I think he is town as claiming miller in his OP is a very very pro town thing to do.

And apparently a mafia safeclaim.

[reinoe]

You're right mafia could faek claim here but its a big gambit right off the bat that I find pretty unlikely.

When does the claim get tested? Day 3-4? Too far off into the future apparently. Day one? Anyone who recommends it must be scum.

[reinoe]

Anti-hero, you seem to be not insane...

recommendations on what to do about the negative utility town slot?

[reinoe]

Ok Reinoe, say we lynch the miller

if he flips scum what do we do?
if he flips town what do we do?

If he flips scum we're lynching you because you're defense of him is kinda out of this world.

If he flips town, then that was pretty inevitable anyway because he's a goddamn miller. We analyse the wagon, see who was and wasn't on it and why. Analyze his reads because they're town motivated and move on from there.

[reinoe]

I was saying things from a general point of view in responce to don. What reinoe asked about who would vig sounded a bit like rolefishing

And it's clear from my response that I was using vig/nightkill interchangebly. I'm noticing a large number of weird comments coming from you.

First you claim that I'm pushing "rvs" when at the time 75% of the votes were rvs at the time you showed up. Then you say I'm trying to "keep the game in rvs" well that's a misrep too. I vote when something is scummy enough for a vote, I don't vote often for reaction tests like you, bjc, or other players. You're trying to label a playstyle difference as scum and you're misrepresenting my intentions to boot.

Then you hypocritically say, paraphrased: "scum would never claim claim miller because they'll get lynched" then try to accuse me of being scum for saying the safest thing we can do is policy lynch the the miller.

Continuing that point you imply that me wanting to lynch the miller today is scummy and that waiting until day 3-4 is trying to set up a MYLO situation. Basically damned if we do, damned if we don't. This miller is fucking untouchable in your world isn't he?

Now you're trying to say that I'm speculating on the setup when you're the one who brought up vigging someone.

I'm pretty sure you're scum regardless of Konowa's flip.

[reinoe]

what are your thoughts on startfrom theheart putting me at L-2 without presenting a case?

[reinoe]

EBWOP: I don't vote for you to give a shit, and I already explained why I changed my mind on delaying the Konowa lynch.

[reinoe]

EBWOP: I don't vote for you to give a shit, and I already explained why I changed my mind on delaying the Konowa lynch.

You said you could see me as scum regardless of konowa flip... bit strange you won't vote me

Not really. There's several scum in this game and I'm very interested in testing the miller claim.

[reinoe]

Just remembered I asked this

Ok Reinoe, say we lynch the miller

if he flips scum what do we do?
if he flips town what do we do?

If he flips scum we're lynching you because you're defense of him is kinda out of this world.

If he flips town,

then that was pretty inevitable anyway because he's a goddamn miller.

We analyse the wagon, see who was and wasn't on it and why. Analyze his reads because they're town motivated and move on from there.

Bolded implies you know he will flip miller...

I'm giving it 50/50. His play has been scummy.

[reinoe]

VOTE: reinoe

You're pushing a lynch on an easy target.
A much better test of the miller claim would be to wait for a potential mass claim but instead you push for a miller lynch under the pretence of a 'test' and have set me up as your next lynch regardless of Konowa's flip.
I really really don't like that 180 on Konowa.. you just sheeped Anti as soon as he cast suspicion on you

Or, it could be exactly what I said and your hypocrisy makes me think he's more likely to be scum. But hey you've spread several myths today already, what's stopping you from keeping up the trend right?

Anti is voting chevre...so how am I sheeping him?

[reinoe]

Wait did you just say wait for a massclaim? That's your suggestion for testing the miller claim? So that our PR's get revealed and killed? You've got to be fucking kidding me.

And I stand by what I said earlier too. Regardless of Konowa's flip I'm fairly certain Guyett is scum.

[reinoe]

OK, if we get to the point of massclaiming and sorting out claims, then we take a look at the game as a whole and see if "miller" fits in with all the other claimed PRs/the setup/ the mod philosophy as a whole

IF IT GET'S TO THAT POINT

vs

A much better test of the miller claim would be to wait for a potential mass claim

A MUCH BETTER TEST


One seems to be advocating massclaim and one is as a last resort. C'mon Guyett it's like you presented the massclaim idea after anti so you could deliberately say that someone else already said it.

[reinoe]

OK, if we get to the point of massclaiming and sorting out claims, then we take a look at the game as a whole and see if "miller" fits in with all the other claimed PRs/the setup/ the mod philosophy as a whole

IF IT GET'S TO THAT POINT

vs

A much better test of the miller claim would be to wait for a potential mass claim

A MUCH BETTER TEST


One seems to be advocating massclaim and one is as a last resort. C'mon Guyett it's like you presented the massclaim idea after anti so you could deliberately say that someone else already said it.

A mass claim is almost guaranteed to happen mate... ESPECIALLY WITH A FUCKING CLAIMED MILLER!!!!!!!

JUST LYNCH THE MILLER WHO'S PROBABLY SCUM ANYWAY OMG. YOU'RE ACKNOWLEDGING THAT A SCUM CLAIMING MILLER CAN DRAW A MASSCLAIM AND MASSCLAIMS ARE FUCKING TERRIBLE FOR TOWN. FUCKING EASY.

[reinoe]

Also, I don't see why we should test that Miller claim. As someone has already said, if that claim is true Konowa will be Nightkilled early. If not, he is going to get lynched after a couple of days because of the lack of a Nightkill. Fake-claiming a Miller has much more disadvantages than advantages.
.

But here's the situation aneninen...

When I say "we lynch on day 3-4" people say I'm trying to create a mylo lynch. When I say "it's safest to lynch today" people say I'm scum.

There's no guarantee that the scum are going to kill the miller. Remember the miller doesn't actually do anything to help town. He's not a cop, he's not a doctor, he's not a vigilante: he's not anything. The scum can easily avoid the miller and kill other townies to look for powerroles that do something.

And there's an obvious benefit to scum fake claiming miller: it can draw out a massclaim. Personally I think massclaims are bad for town but not everyone agrees.

The second benefit is that a scum can possibly get a free ride for several days without people considering lynching them.

[reinoe]

Post 226: I don't like how reinoe refers to Konowa as a "negative utility town slot" due to his miller claim.

Category:Negative Utility roles

M

Miller

I'm not going to go into the definition of "negative utility", I'm just going to let that mafiascum wiki do the work on my behalf.

[reinoe]

I still think reinoe is likely to be scum at this point. reinoe personally may not know how to handle the miller claim and that may come as either alignment.

There's no guarantee that the scum are going to kill the miller. Remember the miller doesn't actually do anything to help town. He's not a cop, he's not a doctor, he's not a vigilante: he's not anything. The scum can easily avoid the miller and kill other townies to look for powerroles that do something.

If I were scum your miller claim would be easy to handle.

reinoe, thoughts on Chevre, dj, and epm.

Chevre's vote looks like an attempt at a counter wagon via self-preservation.

Dj and epm don't have enough posts for me to comment on legitimately.

[reinoe]

start(Bert?): with two scum power roles running around, why are we lynching the goon?

Hey dj???

What are the two scum powerroles?

[reinoe]

Fuck.

You might actually be town. reinoe, explain how saying that Guy is scum regardless of my flip but not voting Guy is town. What's the thought process behind this?

I've been pretty clear on saying that I want to test the miller claim.

Guy is defending you way too hard, to the point where his defense is veering on contradictory. Can't lynch Konowa D1, can't lynch konowa on D3-4. Like there is no good circumstance to test the miller claim according to Guyett. If someone is scum, claims miller and just plays well then that scum has a free pass. He also accidentally slipped here...

Ah, good. You're here.

Explain to me your meta change, Guyett.

I got trolly. See my recent games.

There's almost nothing I'm seeing that's "trolly" about this game from Guyett. It's kinda analytical which is fine but even then his analysis hasn't been that good imho.

[reinoe]

I've been pretty clear on saying that I want to test the miller claim.

Guy is defending you way too hard, to the point where his defense is veering on contradictory. Can't lynch Konowa D1, can't lynch konowa on D3-4. Like there is no good circumstance to test the miller claim according to Guyett.

If someone is scum, claims miller and just plays well then that scum has a free pass.

He also accidentally slipped here...

Any scum who plays well is going to get a "free pass". It's really hard to follow your thought process here if you are town. "Testing the miller claim" makes it seem as if you are policy lynching now. Is that the case?

Also, I don't understand how that is a slip or how it is indicative of alignment?

No, people who play well are sometimes investigated by cops just to make sure they're not scum fooling everyone. Miller nullifies this.

Yeah, it's part policy lynch. I said the safest thing to do is policy lynch the miller. But I also think you're scummy.

Guyett says that his game has been "trolly" as of late. This game is not trolly.

These thoughts are not hard to follow especially since these are all things I've said quite explicitly. I find your confusion feigned.

[reinoe]

This is me paraphrasing the wiki actually

If you are a Miller, there are two schools of thought about optimal play:

The first school of thought is that you should claim immediately, ideally in your opening post. This ensures that the Cop will not waste an investigation on you. It becomes more likely that you will be lynched or shot by a Vigilante, however; otherwise, it would be too easy for Mafia to fakeclaim Miller as well.

The second school of thought is that you should not claim, but should play in such a way as to not get investigated; ideally, you would get yourself killed at Night. If investigated, however, you should expect to get lynched.

One minute you're citing the wiki saying the policy lynching the miller is typical play. The next minute you're saying I'm scum for following wiki play advice. This is exactly what I'm talking about. Anti called me out on wanting to lynch the miller, yes this is true.

But your hypocrisy is why I want to test the miller claim today and not later. The fact that you're now advocating policy lynching me for following the advice of mafiascum, advice you know you're familiar with because you referenced it, is another scum tell in my book.

So Guyett, why don't you explain to Misaka Network why in your previous town games you were much more "trolly" and in this game you're not so trolly?

[reinoe]

Posting from my phone...

I see the case on dj and pacman. I played a game with dj and I think he's just a really lazy person. Idgaf if he's lynched but I think pacman could be scum.

VOTE: evilpacman

[reinoe]

posting from my phone again...

"town blocs" are scummy because you never know if scum is in there without masons/cop clears. It takes just one scum inside to mess it all up.

lynch pacman plz

[reinoe]

I'm confused. we have chevre who is posting mini walls but not really saying anything definitive or offering value to the game. chevre also seems to be caught up in accusing others of not giving content when in reality, he isn't doing much himself. then we have epm, who is basically saying, "I'm not doing anything, so what?"

in my experience, honesty is better. so I don't get the epm wagon. and I can't understand why Anti bailed on the chevre wagon.

also, "blocs" whether labeled "town" or "voting" are not "scum strategy". nor are they scummy. if you don't buy into the strategy, that's fine, but don't blast a strategy which has proven successful time and time again. a bloc does not need to be all town to be successful. it certainly can't be all scum, but some scum in the bloc is okay. what a bloc does is force more cooperation and civility. two things which run against the grain of scum strategy. scum need to sow confusion, dissension, and paranoia in order to win games. blocs help eliminate or severely hamper scums ability to do so. in my experience, when people start calling the bloc strategy "scummy" and flat out refuse to acknowledge its merits, then those players are more likely to be scum. but whatevz. if you guys want to lynch the guy whose being honest over the guy whose blowin' smoke and hypocrisy up your arses, then by all means...

links to town/voting blocs getting formed and not just talked about.

[reinoe]

slightly concerning that both Reinoe and Konowa were at each others throats and are now both pushing EPM....

That's one of my points exactly! Plus, I just feel that a lot of Reinoe's defense is based off of a not so great meta analysis, he also jumps to conclusions quickly imo and just overall screams scum to me.

Now, like I said I do feel that Chevy is leaning towards scum as well but I feel at the moment that Reinoe is more scummy then Chevy and that's where I stand at the moment.

Yes it's one of the points you never mentioned before!

Also you never said I was more scummy than chèvre. That's a new addendum after you got called out for not voting chèvre.

[reinoe]

I have no idea how to tell scum Reinoe from town Reinoe. Maybe him and Konowa are scum buddies, and Reinoe wanted to bus him at first to make himself look town, and when that didn't work, just kind of moved on because he didn't actually want him lynched.

I promise to hammer konowa if he gets run up. If you recall the wagon on konowa dissolved against my will and I was one of the last people off that wagon.

[reinoe]

Okay this is my case against Reinoe.

Spoiler:

He starts off by saying that we should lynch the miller claim which he defends in posts
164
167
169
187
193
Then he votes in194

Then further supports it in posts 196, 205, 208. 210, and 214.

Then in229, he suddenly makes a claim that’s scummy because he brings attention away from himself and the fact that he’s been claiming to lynch the miller half the time and tries to bring the idea of focusing on the other people he’s convince to get on his wagon.

242
Feels to me like he’s getting put in a corner and he’s trying to slip out of it


His posts against Guyett feel like he’s desperately trying to defend himself and have a sense of panick imo.

After running more up the miller in claim in 433 he randomly switched against EPM without much evidence on why.

On top of that his arguments on the wagon and using meta as his defense was just horrible.
And with him randomly joining sides with the person he’s been targeting the entire day so far, it just seems suspicious and scummy.

Again, overall I feel imo that Reinoe is being manipulative, panicky, and is riding an easy argument through the first day whilc trying to switch sides without much explanation whenever it's convenient for him.

That case is terrible and I'll pick it apart tomorrow because formatting on a phone is a pain in the butt.

Chaoslord is probably scum.

[reinoe]

Okay this is my case against Reinoe.

He starts off by saying that we should lynch the miller claim which he defends in posts
164
167
169
187
193
Then he votes in194

Then further supports it in posts 196, 205, 208. 210, and 214.

Yes I talked about lynching the Miller. There were two reasons for me saying so and despite you detailing that I had approximately 11 posts dedicated to the project you don't actually mention what's scummy about wanting to lynch the miller. You simply say I wanted to do it. Bizarre since I was taking a megaton of flak for it and you could have at least picked a reason that someone mentioned. Furthermore I had perfectly valid reasons for wanting to lynch the miller.

Then in229, he suddenly makes a claim that’s scummy because he brings attention away from himself and the fact that he’s been claiming to lynch the miller half the time and tries to bring the idea of focusing on the other people he’s convince to get on his wagon.

This post does not make any sense, awkward post or not. How am I bringing attention away from myself? I'm answering a question that is predicated on focusing on other people. I'm in no way shape or form trying to convince anyone to get on the Konowa wagon at that point. Your "scumread" here is complete fabrication.

242

Feels to me like he’s getting put in a corner and he’s trying to slip out of it
His posts against Guyett feel like he’s desperately trying to defend himself and have a sense of panick imo.

Another complete fabrication. That's me building a cursory case one someone whom I'm starting to believe is scum. Look carefully: I'm seeing a behavior and then labeling what's scummy about it, which is not what you're doing in your "case" against me. You're simply saying "look at reinoe he's posting" without saying what's scummy about it and you can't because there's really nothing scummy about it. Look at this case:

he’s desperately trying to defend himself

.
1) That tone is not one of desperation
2) You're saying that trying to defend myself is scummy
This is trash masquerading as a "case".

After running more up the miller in claim in 433 he randomly switched against EPM without much evidence on why. On top of that his arguments on the wagon and using meta as his defense was just horrible. And with him randomly joining sides with the person he’s been targeting the entire day so far, it just seems suspicious and scummy.

Finally you made a semi-worthwhile point in your first sentence. Except that I was phone posting so I couldn't give a detailed explanation for my scumread on EPM. Furthermore Anti listed the reasons for why EPM could be scum and it's rather inconvenient to rehash something someone else says when phone posting.

I don't even know what your second sentence even means.

The third sentence: I'll see if I can decipher it...
You think it's suspicious for two people to join in on the same wagon if they've been targeting each other all day. Except I already mentioned I'm not entirely convinced Konowa is scum. I said that it's 50/50: part of my push on Konowa is because I wanted to test the miller claim and that it's part policy lynch. If that seems strange to you then too fucking bad.

Again, overall I feel imo that Reinoe is being manipulative, panicky, and is riding an easy argument through the first day whilc trying to switch sides without much explanation whenever it's convenient for him.

How am I being manipulative? You've never once mentioned how I'm being manipulative in your entire "case". You're claims of me being "panicky" are false. Riding an easy argument? Did you see the megatons of shit being thrown my way for wanting to policy lynch the miller and sticking to my guns on that? Switching sides without much explanation is a trashy excuse in the context of how your presented it and your case is on me is scum motivated.

Here's a challenge for you chaos...
What's your case on Chevre and why aren't you voting for her. You claim that "I'm more scummy" than Chevre but that's not a detail you said when you made this post...

Okay I have read through all of the posts to the best of my ability and I feel that the scummy people standing out to me are Reinoe or Chevre. Also, I feel the wagon on EPM is ridiculous, nobody pointed out any real good evidence against him and everybody so easily jumped on him for almost no reason.

So this is my vote

Vote:Reinoe

If I need to explain this I will.

Nowhere do you mention that I'm more scummy than Chevre until you get called on it. If both myself and Chevre are your scumreads then why aren't you voting for Chevre? She's more likely to be lynched because she has a bigger wagon. Your vote has multiple scum motivations behind it...

1)If you're both scum you can form a counterwagon
2)If you're scum and you know Chevre is town you can say "oh well she was a scumread of mine let's move on to my next scumread". You're subtly advocating for Chevre's lynch without getting your hands dirty.

[reinoe]

Chevre's last post is kinda townie.

[reinoe]

Nowhere do you mention that I'm more scummy than Chevre until you get called on it. If both myself and Chevre are your scumreads then why aren't you voting for Chevre? She's more likely to be lynched because she has a bigger wagon. Your vote has multiple scum motivations behind it...

1)If you're both scum you can form a counterwagon
2)If you're scum and you know Chevre is town you can say "oh well she was a scumread of mine let's move on to my next scumread". You're subtly advocating for Chevre's lynch without getting your hands dirty.

Fine Reinoe, I will back off of you for now and focus on my other scum read. But, if she ends up being town then I am going to go after you tomorrow and build a better case. But for now,

Vote:Chevre

This post makes me want to take a shower, and I just took a shower.

VOTE: Chaoslord54

[reinoe]

Nowhere do you mention that I'm more scummy than Chevre until you get called on it. If both myself and Chevre are your scumreads then why aren't you voting for Chevre? She's more likely to be lynched because she has a bigger wagon. Your vote has multiple scum motivations behind it...

1)If you're both scum you can form a counterwagon
2)If you're scum and you know Chevre is town you can say "oh well she was a scumread of mine let's move on to my next scumread". You're subtly advocating for Chevre's lynch without getting your hands dirty.

Fine Reinoe, I will back off of you for now and focus on my other scum read. But, if she ends up being town then I am going to go after you tomorrow and build a better case. But for now,

Vote:Chevre

This post makes me want to take a shower, and I just took a shower.

VOTE: Chaoslord54

Do you want me to claim Reinoe? Would that make you get off my case?

You do what you feel is best for you. You play according to your own playstyle. I've claimed under no pressure. I've claimed with one non-serious vote on me. I've refused to claim even at L-1 with intent, and I've claimed because I had 4 votes on me and I thought the wagon was shit and didn't feel like fighting off the wagon.

[reinoe]

chaoslord54: I'm actually going to abstain from discussing chaoslord, but from his few posts, he's town.

Final ranking, scum to town
Boonskiies
evilpacman18
BroodkingEXE
Guyett
startfromtheheart
Aneninen
reinoe
Antihero
Konowa
Misaka Network
chaoslord54

<--------

Chevre, why is Chaos the towniest person on your list based on just his few posts? Chevre, you say you want to abstain, but the reasons for this are kinda weird. You're going to have to elaborate for me on this.

[reinoe]

Reinoe I hope you're joking

No, I'm serious. I suspect chaoslord, I'm indifferent on Chevre, but the Chaoslord townread makes me raise my eyebrows.

[reinoe]

607: I hoped you would see that I'm being intentionally vague. Just read chaoslord's posts before I made mine and hopefully you'll see it. Here's a hint: I think 605 from you is especially sketch and literally fish-y. But again, the brunt of your reaction to chaoslord feels town.

It really doesn't matter whether chaos claims or not: scum have plenty of opportunities to fake claim anyway.

In fact chaoslord and I just completed a scumgame together where we witnessed a fake-claim propel our team to victory. So I don't really care if chaoslord claims or not: that's a choice he needs to make. I'm not going to demand that he claim. I merely listed a bunch of scenarios in which I've claimed my role and I actually encouraged chaos to make up his own mind...

"You do what you feel is best for you."

That's the exact quote. Anyway that's fine if you want to be vague about your chaoslord=townread. It's a playstyle choice. I'm trying not to call people scummy because of playstyle differences.

[reinoe]

Whoa. Could you link to this game, reinoe? If that's the case it definitely twists things up.

Mini 1579: Mafia Team Curbstomps Town, inspires Germany to do the same to Brazilians.

[reinoe]

i'm a very polarizing player

chaos and bert are too to some degree. you can't tell me they're all completely null.

Who is "bert"?

[reinoe]

Guyett had plenty of associative tells with Konowa from day one. Nobody bothered to analyze those for some reason.

[reinoe]

Set-up was:
Mafia: Strongman, Traitor, Goon.
Town: Jailkeeper, Bodyguard, Tracker.

Note for the traitor: They did not know who their partners were and the mafia did not know who the traitor was (obviously ).

Actually it's pretty clear Guyett knew Konowa was the mafia traitor based on that bizarro-world chainsaw defense of the Miller claim.

[reinoe]

Tbh you might be right anti... Reinoe is so derpy as town in the games i played with him so this

could

just be derpy reinoe. Also i replaced scum reinoe before so i could possibly reread that game for a better grasp on his scum game.

I'll just sheep you on that chevre read because it looks nice. Tomorrow we should have lots of wagon info to look at depending on the chevre flip
Of course it might be day 3 before the best vca can be done. Remember in how you want to die how i was fairly useless before doing the vca then pinged most of the team... it just takes a bit of time for me to get going.

Thank god noone saw this...

I didn't see anything super alignment indicative of this...

[reinoe]

Tbh you might be right anti... Reinoe is so derpy as town in the games i played with him so this

could

just be derpy reinoe. Also i replaced scum reinoe before so i could possibly reread that game for a better grasp on his scum game.

I'll just sheep you on that chevre read because it looks nice. Tomorrow we should have lots of wagon info to look at depending on the chevre flip
Of course it might be day 3 before the best vca can be done. Remember in how you want to die how i was fairly useless before doing the vca then pinged most of the team... it just takes a bit of time for me to get going.

Thank god noone saw this...

I didn't see anything super alignment indicative of this...

Except for the assumption that he'd be alive come day three. But that wasn't pinging me at the time.

[reinoe]

Read just capital letters...

oh, lulz.

[reinoe]

Argh. Why the hell did you kill reinoe? He was begging to be mislynch fodder with no blowback on you.

You think people who are correct about the game should be mislynched? I'll keep that in mind if I play with you again in the future...