Mini 1591: PFs Flavorless Normal (Game Over)

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Vote: cooldog

For having too many o's in his name!

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Spoiler: Travel Between Planets On Horses

Horses are magic animals and these are very ancient animals.

Horses were created by designers of Life specially for Magicians. They were called by Riders. And trillions years ago Riders had horses.

How there is a travel? The rider gets onto a horse, then disperses before gallop, and then there is a teleportation from one place in another.

Movement is possible and in a planet, interstellar travel are an aerobatics.

How it works? Between a horse and the Rider the magic contract has to be signed. Such contracts are signed with horses of a certain breed, for example only with white horses or only with black or red horses.

It is necessary to tell that there are such intelligence services which are engaged in designing of Life of plants and animals. Them call the master of Life. Masters of life marked magic properties of fruit, vegetables and animals with color. So for example red apples have absolutely other magic properties than green apples. Or white vegetable marrows of a grade of Gribovskiye have absolutely other magic properties than green Tsukini.

With horses this rule work too - white horses strongly differ from the black ones.

It doesn't make to build spaceships any sense, it is possible as to travel simply on horses.


Masters of life specially changed a genotype of horses so that the horse had no wisdom teeth, on a place of these teeth at a horse are destiny which don't stir a horse is.


I have a contract with some breeds of horses - with black and red breeds.


It is necessary to tell that Riders existed during existence of Atlantis and They were at war with Atlases. Besides, Riders are far ancestors Lunarians
from the Moon.

The first short-sighted look Riders on horses are representatives of a primitive civilization. Actually is a far future of mankind.

The spacehorses have left their mark

Majestic

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Life is fine.

Reinoe seems like he genuinely seeks scum, but isn't doing a good job with it.
Sleepykrew seems like he legitimately wants to get out of RVS for the right reasons. Appealing to a sense of duty would set me off, if it weren't that he were very natural about it. So I don't think skrew (perjorative or ok?) is the scummy part of the wagon (I learned the word perjorative watching House last night, it's so exciting) (ok well I had already read it in books but that actor that plays House made it come alive).

Konowa is pretty sketchy though. The personal nature of Skrew's vote makes Konowa's bandwagoning for the same motive unlikely. It's unlikely he has a different motive either, because he didn't post a different motive, and my own perspective didn't see anything scummy in reinoe's last couple posts.

And he just moves on when it doesn't catch on, conveying a total lack of conviction about his vote.

Vote: Konowa

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You're absolutely right that there was a lack of conviction to my reinoe vote. I hadn't actually read anything at that point.
When I did read, Drew's #37 made me instantly dislike my vote on reinoe, thus the vote change.

No thoughts on the Drew vote?

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@SKrew: most people would not react quite the way you did to reinoe's behavior, that's what I meant by personal. Not personal as in "you deliberately rubbed ketchup on my favorite sweater, now it's personal", but personal as in personality, I don't think most people would get upset and interpret reinoe as actively trying to prolong RVS stage to fog the air, I think most would just find it funny.
Thus it was unlikely Konowa had the same reaction.

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Why is everyone ignoring my case on Konowa? His reaction was "sounds about right".

IAI vote Konowa for me so I can get more attention

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Even if I do buy it, skimming thread is correlated with a scum alignment, so that's no salvation

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Even if I do buy it, skimming thread is correlated with a scum alignment, so that's no salvation

Really? I mean I might be relying a little too heavily on my own experiences, but from what I can recall I almost always used to pay more attention when I'm scum. Can you back this one up?

Scum tend to be less motivated and to be having less fun, as a rule. That means they are less likely to read the thread, much like you are less likely to read every word of a boring text than of a good novel.

That's for the average person, it might not apply to you. Maybe you like playing scum, or you read everything either way but have a meticulous attitude as scum.


Goofyd00d does give me a vague scum vibe, but Konowa has a better feel for me.

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PF didn't give it to me, true, but I assumed it for myself. (If I'd drawn scum, I'd have assumed the Bloodthursty modifier, that sounds cool, too.)

Jokes are fine, but if you don't play to whatever win condition PF gave you, so help me god, I will be pissed about it.

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@IAI, reading Cooldog's posts, it seems like he really believes in the wagon. It seems like the sincere honest sort of sheeping.

I'd prefer you and he both do something more effective with your votes though, like Konowa. Or at least goofydood, who refused to answer a question in a manner that has fogged up the town rather than focused it.

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Forgot about this earlier

Scum tend to be less motivated and to be having less fun, as a rule. That means they are less likely to read the thread, much like you are less likely to read every word of a boring text than of a good novel.

This is bad reasoning. Do you have experience or knowledge of Konowa specifically?

He's human. I'll bet you 1$ he's right handed, and I'll bet you 1$ he plays less motivated as scum. Maybe he's not, and maybe he's not, but probably so

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IAI, Redcoyote can be hard to read, but I'm getting a lack of initiative from him today that is pretty scummy, especially given his meta. Even in a game that's somewhat dense, I expect more to resonate when I read his posts.

I tend to hate hate hate "punish people for posting" strategies, they are not protown at all. Not voting Konowa because he hasn't said enough to fill up the evidence room yet means redirecting attention to players who are active enough that we can read them better in subsequent days. The trend can discourage town aggregate post counts too, which is bad.

Konowa has enough scumminess per post density to outweigh most other verbose players anyway.


@farside22: it would be protown to ignore the "what does RVS mean" question if goofy thought it was not useful and would create more distraction than good. Once sleepykrew starts spamming the question to get a response, it becomes antitown to refuse to answer, any answer would shut him up and clear the game. goofy's refusal to answer is scummy to me for that reason, it seems like he is more concerned about the risk of a little exposure of his own posting than he is about letting the thread get on with things.
I don't think the results of the question would have been alignment indicative, but skrew seems to think so, so he might as well have humored him.

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IAI's last post smells kind of bad ftr

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Pop started out by adding fluff to his posts maybe in some lighthearted attempt to lighten up the start of the game, or maybe to add more perceived content. Since then Pop hasn't contributed a lot of personal reads, rather than a line here or there about the current conversation, and a tunnel on someone who has posted 4 times rather than looking elsewhere while you wait for them to post seems like you either stick to your guns and ignore the rest of the scum(poor town play), or you legitimately think that you can get the target mislynched(scum). I'd like to see your reaction to this thought and how you

I just wanted to get people talking about a lynch with strong merits instead of discussing sleepykrew and reinoe's blind pillowfightings. It seemed like a better catalyst for the development of the daygame. I felt seeing people's reactions to that sort of wagon had more value. RC's lackluster response to the topic has cast much more doubt on him than which of his favorite pillows he roots for, for instance

IAI, Redcoyote can be hard to read, but I'm getting a lack of initiative from him today that is pretty scummy, especially given his meta.

I have yet to play with Red, care sharing the points of his meta you are referring to here?

He usually makes a couple keen observations. He doesn't necessarily crack the whole lobster open and pick the scummeat out day one, but he'll ask a question that seems wise to ask, or be proactive in some other way.
He and IAI are fighting for second place on my list right now.

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The info it gave has already been explained by others, and I ignored your other question because this isn't the Road to Rome and why you Rvs should be known.

@pops, still waiting for an answer:

I kind of agree with this. I didn't really "get" what the reinoe vote was all about. I think farside noticed this too. You think she scared him off?

si

IAI, Redcoyote can be hard to read, but I'm getting a lack of initiative from him today that is pretty scummy, especially given his meta.

That's wrong and you should know that given that we've played together several times. I'm one of your "non-humans", I guess, since I enjoy playing as scum much more than town.

Since that's self-meta, I'd like to see a post older than this one expressing that preference. MD or in any game. If you can, it's something to consider when I read you.

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Guys I got a B+ in Sexual Health freshman year of college and that's on my transcript and everything so there's no need for me to read the word dick inside walls of text 9999 more times please thank you kthx

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When I read Beck post "If this game is 18 pages of reinoe and SK fighting I'm going to lose motivation", it resonated a little bit. I've had trouble digging into this game, and that's a big part of why. The spat between the two of them has gone a long, long, time. I've seen pretty big town on town spats. But I've never seen such a protracted one of this, that goes on and on.

At first I thought neither was scum, but the amount of filth they have filled the thread with has left me doubtful. There'd be more mutual interest in letting things drop for a moment for the good of the town.

I've had a gut town read on reinoe for a long time due to his carefree nature, but a null read on sleepy. Belligerence is cloudy to me. My gut doesn't tell me much about him, but my head realizes that there is a defensive component to his nagging, repetitive, cyclical desire to be right and to be identified as the "victor" of the engagement with reinoe, which has survivalist qualities to it. Reinoe doesn't seem to care as much, at least to me.

Vote: SleepyKrew

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I was trying to be abundantly clear that I had made a change in stance. SK vs. reinoe is clogging the productivity of this thread and it's exploded to such ridiculous levels that I'm interpreting it differently now.

It's not even realistic to try to do real scumhunting on RC or IAI until the tumor is excised. RC has improved a little bit, so that's less exciting, and IAI hasn't posted that much, and apparently based on Konowa's amazingly popular lurkerscum playstyle I've learned that if you keep your post count low enough you have lynchproof power role.

IAI is probably a bit scummier and RC has drawn to about even but I'd really like to improve the dynamic of the day game here by getting half the pair out of the game.

Maybe I should wait a night and hope we have a vig, idk

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prod-dodge. Weekends are harder for me. tomorrow

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Groan....

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Vote: Drew-sta

It's nearing deadline, so I need to vote for a viable lynch, and I have a pretty strong town feel on reinoe. So Drew is my favorite of the other leading wagons. The original case for him itself never clicked for me, but he seems to go about defending himself in a scummy way, occasionally with some condescension that could "yes but that's not why silly" scum defense.

I would vote cooldog if I had to, he's null for me. I would prefer the Drew lynch. The plus is that in one or two people's eyes a Drew scumflip would vindicate reinoe and get them onboard with my thinking on that.

Did anyone have any questions for me I missed? I'm ready to see something flip at this phase of the game, really.

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Cooldog feels like a weak lynch. Beck would be a better lynch just standing on Konowa's post record alone. Would enough people go for that?

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Cooldog feels like a weak lynch. Beck would be a better lynch just standing on Konowa's post record alone. Would enough people go for that?

Why does it seem weak? I mean you had him as null. I'm just waiting for a what do you see/think?
Also you have a town read on Renoie. Do you think scum was on that wagon?

These are actually related. I don't assume scum is on any big town-targetted wagon by default, and in reinoe's case in particular I don't think it's damning to have attacked reinoe. Cooldog is among those posters whose line of thought seemed wrong, but internally consistent and understandable.
Multiple actors seemed to shift focus to/from Drew, so that seems like an informative lynch. Cooldog was never that popular and just kinda slowly bubbled to a consensus lynch, it doesn't seem that informative.

Konowa lynch would be very informative for similar reasons, and a good deal more likely to flip scum.

There's a frustratingly long list of lynches I'd prefer to cooldog: Skrew, RC, IAI, goofy. Drew actually has a poor standing on that list, and sorry @Drew that my vote is parked there, but you have a high viability. If we could pull together an improved flashwagon on one of these other guys that'd be kinda great, I'd love you long time. Maybe I deserve a little credit

worthy of sheepability

for being ahead of things on reinoe town, neh? (Is "neh" a word they use in Ender's Game? I think I remember it being a really cool Orson Scott Card word)

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Cooldog feels like a weak lynch. Beck would be a better lynch just standing on Konowa's post record alone. Would enough people go for that?

Why does it seem weak? I mean you had him as null. I'm just waiting for a what do you see/think?
Also you have a town read on Renoie. Do you think scum was on that wagon?

These are actually related. I don't assume scum is on any big town-targetted wagon by default, and in reinoe's case in particular I don't think it's damning to have attacked reinoe. Cooldog is among those posters whose line of thought seemed wrong, but internally consistent and understandable.
Multiple actors seemed to shift focus to/from Drew, so that seems like an informative lynch. Cooldog was never that popular and just kinda slowly bubbled to a consensus lynch, it doesn't seem that informative.

Konowa lynch would be very informative for similar reasons, and a good deal more likely to flip scum.

There's a frustratingly long list of lynches I'd prefer to cooldog: Skrew, RC, IAI, goofy. Drew actually has a poor standing on that list, and sorry @Drew that my vote is parked there, but you have a high viability. If we could pull together an improved flashwagon on one of these other guys that'd be kinda great, I'd love you long time. Maybe I deserve a little credit

worthy of sheepability

for being ahead of things on reinoe town, neh? (Is "neh" a word they use in Ender's Game? I think I remember it being a really cool Orson Scott Card word)

I had to reread this about 3 times. Here is my confusion based on your statement,

You don't think it's damning to find renioe scummy yet you think scum wouldn't be part of it?
I mean I may live in opposite land on this but if a player makes bad post you can find fault with and you think the player that is playing badly is town, isn't that just a scum' sweet dream to vote on?

Why is beck informative? Why is Skrew on this list? He pushed his scum read on Renoie pretty hard and with multiple reasons.

You're playing some kind of wine in front of me paradox.. and I think it does put you in opposite land
1. It is not scummy to be on reinoe's wagon
2. Everyone knows it is not scummy to be on reinoe's wagon
3. Therefore, all the scum will get on reinoe's wagon, since there is no negative consequence for them to do so.
4. Therefore, it is very scummy to be on reinoe's wagon.

You could then use #4 as a new #1 and loop back around to the same thing, proving both conclusions at some point... but anyway, the reason your whole loop is unreasonable is #2.

I already made a big post about why I would like to see Skrew strung up. He's a separate category.

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Yea I took a moment to find this:

farside's interpretations of this game are completely bonkers. I want to hold to the idea that she's just really far out there, but it is growing increasingly hard to do that. I'm glad you agree at least that the case is bad because I consider you to be as impartial a player as we've got given that you've spent most of your time going after Goofy (and I have been vocally against that).

That was rc post.

I'm tempted to vote rc and the hop on cooldog bothers me.

That is a startling lack of internal consistency. I don't know if there's enough hours left to lynch RC, tough.
My vote is certainly not parked anywhere better, so we can see if there is.

Vote: RedCoyote

The call for the end of the day is a little off too. People were actually posting a bit productively around that time

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Ugh... this game

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With the bodyguard claim I think the best thing to do is to let RC live. The most powerful use for the role is if a scummy townie gets it, and dives in front of an obvtown townie, thus killing a scummy townie instead of an obvtownie and making PoE easier. Since RC is certainly a scummy towny if he's a townie at all, townRC should be given at least two nights to try to use the ability to its fullest extent.

Unvote

If he hasn't managed to make a dive by then, he needs to die. The role is like 15% confirmable or something with a high rate of false negatives that if he hasn't managed to make a successful dive, then it's scummy.


IAI made a terribly scummy post when he said that he thinks RC is scum, thinks exactly one of {RC, cooldog} is scum, and voted cooldog. It's not internally consistent at all for him to do that. He should be on Drew if that's actually the way he feels, but I think he's faking his reads.
I don't think there's time for an IAI lynch though.

Vote: Drew

If this causes a third claim, it's not that bad a drawback at this point, the scum can't shoot multiple PRS in one night. And hey, we might have a bodyguard. Of course, the main reason for my preference is I think Cooldog is less likely to flip scum.

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Cooldog's flipout on farside doesn't look like an earnest effort to find the scum on his wagon. Why you bein so hard to like CD?

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So, RC's failure to dive for a bullet for reinoe casts some more doubt on his slot. I don't care if he roleblockage or selecting a different player is his excuse.

Part of me wants to give him another night, part of me wants to see how he flips. Because if he flips town then to me that looks really bad for Skrew, because his

Since RC is certainly a scummy towny if he's a townie at all, townRC should be given at least two nights to try to use the ability to its fullest extent.
Unvote
If he hasn't managed to make a dive by then, he needs to die. The role is like 15% confirmable or something with a high rate of false negatives that if he hasn't managed to make a successful dive, then it's scummy.

This reads like setting up an RC mislynch to win the game. I need to double check but I'm pretty sure the numbers line up.

Is packed to bursting with cognitive dissonance when Skrew is voting RC and holding him as a prime suspect. It only makes sense if Skrew knows RC is town, which would be a scumslip.

Trying to implicate another player for lining up the lynch of your top suspect has so much wtfbbq hypocrisy that requires a bad alignment to slilp into that the posting is bad enough without RC's flip.

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I didn't realize RC was my top suspect.

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@pops: I don't undestand how you get to the conclusion. Could you explain with smaller logical steps, perhaps? I'm being serious here.
@farside: I might have been a bit harsh, retrospectively.

When SleepyKrew was making posts about RC, he felt RC was scum. It's like in his brain, he has RC as 60% likely to be scum.

When he read my post about RC, he accidentally reverted his brain to 0% scum, because he (possibly) knows RC is town because SK is scum and RC isn't his partner. So then he goes onto the accusation about me trying to set up a LyLo loss. But that's not consistent with where his brain should be. You can trigger a LyLo loss by lynching scum at the last second.


@farside: you can call it lining up lynches if you want. I've never been big on lining up lynches being a cardinal scumtell sin as mafiascum meta seems to dictate, and have never caught scum that way myself, so I don't take much stock in it. I reassess my options every day whether or not the previous day was an information-purposed lynch or not. Taken to its extreme, commenting on whether any lynch yields any information at all is a form of lining up lynches.

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VOTE: RC
Let's talk.

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That's on today's damn page. No, I'm not going to waste my time finding more, or entertain some babble about pressure and suspicion being different. It's not different enough for that cognitive dissonance to have made sense.

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I see the parallel, Skrew.

I don't care what RC's excuse is because scumRC would always have an excuse. It doesn't seem to matter what the excuse is if townBG RC can't get himself dead. I guess I shouldn't say I don't care, if RC's excuse was really terrible then it would implicate him further.

Vote: IAI

I'm going to sheep Cyberbob a little bit here. I like his work.

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You would be one of my other suspicions, IAI, but that vacay post placated me to a good extent.

unvote

Skrew is one of my other suspects. As I expressed D1, I feel like the Skrew vs. reinoe drivel that lasted all D1 didn't seem like town vs. town, and Skrew seems excessively defensive all game.

Goofydood and Beck are not my favorite slots either

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Yeah, I voted Drew. He was the lesser of evils.

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It's kind of natural for the explanation of a nullread to sound weak..

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I think farside's concerns may be valid in the sense that I may have gotten some confirmation bias after explaining my nullread on cooldog. It's not anything worth feeling that strongly about, I just felt I had to make the most responsible choice I could between Drew and Cooldog, and it was really pretty close for me.

Cooldog replace out looked really bad, and that's reason enough for him to be lynchable today. Especially the way he explained it, since he contributed fine day one.

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Cd: read pops 1254 and the read this this which is many time of pops justifying his vote and reasoning. He didn't think cool was scum at all and now it was a vote of the lesser of two evils.
That doesn't add up.

Lesser of two evils was a reference to the lynches, no the individuals. Both lynches were "evil" in that they were craptacular, weak lynches, but had somehow become popular and were the only two viable lynches of the day. I pointed out the long list of better lynches.

As Cyberbob figured out, you misread my post. I don't quite understand how you made the mistake though, because if evil was supposed to apply to the persons, I would want to lynch the greater of evils, the most evil person.

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I was unsure whether I would be very active when the deadline hit. It turned out I did have time to stay active

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IAI's not a bad lynch. I liked his recent posting but his day one posting was pretty lackluster.

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It's funny that people thought I was scum day 1 for tunneling Beck's slot too hard, and day 2 I'm getting criticized for attacking too weakly. :eyeroll:

I'm more maneuvering from my more favored lynches to a viable one. Day 1 I felt like I didn't get as good a compromise as I would have liked, IAI would be a pretty good step up from Drew.
I do agree with some of what you're saying about IAI. It weighs heavily against just one of his posts pinging off my gut well.

I don't know singer very well but I like her play so far.

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Attempts to get on her good side fail, she is still critical of people who unvoted her slot. I like that.

Ironically, it's consistent with that for her to dislike me now

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IAI's posting is starting to sound delirious, but not in a good way.

Vote: IAmInnocent

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To be quite honest, since I made legend at hearthstone I for some reason don't care if I win this game.

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VT

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hypocrisy isn't a scumtell. but damn is that an unpopular opinion of mine.

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Laziness and disinterest are different. I just can't make anything happen with this town. I spend day 1 driving a good case, but no one listens or respects me or anything. They just keep making inane cases and comparing appendage lengths.

If I'm playing a little like a survivor, well, it's because I seem to have no power to get anyone lynched no matter what I say. It sorta seemed like the only thing I could do is prevent my own lynch, then, since I know I'm town. I went hard on Konowa and people just give him a free pass for nothing because everyone is a dumb sucker for the cat that ran up the tree story instead of the cat that didn't. I try to explain why RCs -unconfirmed- -L1 yielded- claim should get textbook lynched and I'm accused of lining up a LyLo lynch like wtf?

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While farside is pulling meta, maybe she should pull the meta that she's wagonned me in every game we've played, regardless of my alignment. 85% sure that's the case. I was scum with disproportionate frequency, but I do think she kind of conjures a case on me no matter what

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I have more townreads than scumreads this game. It happens sometimes. IAI is my biggest one, because he has been too willing to lynch a variety of different people (except for the townwagons he bragged about). Since IAI is already the counterwagon to me there's not much to say, Cyberbob makes the case better than I do.

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I have not been enjoying this game.

If it's mylo, there's not much use in me leaving my reads behind, huh? So I mighty well skip that.

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Vote: popsofctown

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Yay! I win!

Fun game guys! I hate playing as scum.