Fuzzy First Forray ( Mini 1600)

[TobyLoby]

I've confirmed :)

[TobyLoby]

VOTE: Flubbernugget

Next-gen voting right here. Get on my level.

[TobyLoby]

Which part am I supposed to take as trolly? The voting for yourself part or the woe is me bit?. Help a girl out, mang.

If you actually want to quit, then just quit. Otherwise, I want to know: At what point in the game do you deem it acceptable to start a wagon?

[TobyLoby]

You've reverse-reverse psychology'd me, mang.

UNVOTE: Flubbernugget
VOTE: Boonskiies

[TobyLoby]

First off, any Boonski groupies have anything actually to back up on his troll town other than, "wait until later bro." ?

That wagon has been trolly as hell with barely anything to learn from it since essentially barely anyone actually was on him. Whheee.

@bjc

: What exactly does your role say you are and why did you say it was green in the first place?

[TobyLoby]

The green thing I don't care about so much, but the wording of his town role does. Does anyone else see what I am talking about?

For anyone who can't see, in the VC I have two votes against me when only one person on me and he wrote that above anyway.

[TobyLoby]

Man, I wish we wouldn't have to fight about town role pms

[TobyLoby]

My role says ________ townie instead of ____ town idk? I feel like it could be outing different roles though, so I'm at a stand-still on this one.

The role itself I initially interpret more as town. Either way, I think usually in games there is a counter on the opposite alignment side to balance the game. If bjc is alive later in the game and a townie dies who appears as a sort of counter, that would definitely peak some Toby scum alarms.

[TobyLoby]

I'm hesitant for anyone else to comment on the wording of the roles only regarding bjc in this case. Until more people come in, I'm just reading what happened as not meaning anything.

@Flubber

, explain exactly why are you on bjc.

@Clusk

, why do you see Victor as townie for having an early hissyfit but you voted for Boons (and are unsure of him) after he also took his own fit?

AbboTT is my top scum read atm. That was an easy vote to reason putting on Boons in the beginning, but it is his questioning of what Victor is doing while also calling him "hopeless town" when Victor was gaining some heat in Post #112 which is scummiest to me. It's playing in the mud on Victor's alignment while also saying he believes that someone is town. It's having it both ways without having to commit.

UNVOTE: Boonskiies
VOTE: AbboTT

[TobyLoby]

I'd half half on Clusk. Need to see more Clusk.

[TobyLoby]

Onoc, I dunno how you can come into the game page 8 and essentially have zero scummy leads.

[TobyLoby]

*Onox

[TobyLoby]

It's having it both ways without having to commit.

Which "other" way am I having it, exactly? I said I'm reading Victor as town. If you don't read "hopeless" in the way he was posting then I'd be curious to know your interpretation.

Nah, this has nothing to do about that

I

think about Victor's alignment. I was talking about how you, in that same post, were calling into question what Victor is doing while then calling him hopeless town. What were you trying to accomplish when speaking to Victor in Post #112?

[TobyLoby]

Flubster, what do you think about the whole bjc role shenanigans?

[TobyLoby]

Null read on the wagon or on that post of bjcs? What do you think about those who jumped on it?

[TobyLoby]

I can't tell on that point for the exact same reason you point out.

[TobyLoby]

I have no idea. I'm

assuming

that mafia pms aren't colour coded either. You would think scum would make that connection and I have no idea, if so, why they would mention colours. I can see it as a scum slip from scum not paying attention though.

Other things rub me wrong about it, but apparently not to others so I don't know where to go on this one?

[TobyLoby]

As you can see, I really need to be babied into it.

[TobyLoby]

It was not color-coded,

but because I don't believe in gaming the system I decided to play it off as if it were green.

What did you mean by this?

[TobyLoby]

I think that in the future, the best way to go about a similar situation is to test a person first before immediately calling out what's wrong.

[TobyLoby]

The green role pm deal.

Do you think those on the bjc wagon because of the green role pm post are town?

[TobyLoby]

I have seen a scum double voter at least once before, but it was restricted to being a one shot thing.

Here is an actual example of a scum double-voter game I found:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... start=2000

I'd say if we're just talking about the role itself, a non-secret double vote is more indicative of town than scum. Assuming it is not the type of double vote sent by pm. It's not exactly confirmed town material though.

P-edit: Onox newb

town

since this is his first game? Please.

[TobyLoby]

A double-voter is "normal" regardless of alignment. But I did find a mini normal with a scum double-voter:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... start=1200 :)

Personally not a big fan of calling anyone confirm town unless unless there is some big boppity concrete proof.

[TobyLoby]

You know, right now I'm leaning Reinoe as town. Here is a guy who comes in when a wagon is losing some steam and he jumps adamantly onboard debating a scum leak. You know if that wagon goes through and bjc flips town, Reinoe is going to have some heat on him on the next day and I don't know if scum would want to put themselves into that position so relatively early.

That is of course assuming a bjc town flip and that scum really believed that wagon won't go through. If bjc flips scum down the line, I'm far more likely to see it as Reinoe scum looking to get towncred in case their partner was killed.

[TobyLoby]

Sorry, no hetero.

[TobyLoby]

Next, if I said my role PM was purple, does that really mean I'm third-party/SK? You can't take that stuff seriously. If I open a game up claiming scum, are you going to lynch me?

You wouldn't be saying your role pm is purple because that is not normal for town pms. You were discussing your [town] role pm's colour, not just randomly flinging off about your role being "green" insinuating that it meant town.

I mean I don't like using role PMs (and potential differences) as a way of interrogating someone. You may see me ask them if their role PM coloring is red, but that's a joke. Anyone (reinoe) thinking that is a serious scum-hunting tactic has an IQ matching that of.. Say.. A banana.

You realize how convenient it is for you to take this position once the shenanigans started, right?

I also don't believe you'd hammer yourself shit all.

[TobyLoby]

I'm more interested in a VOTE: Abott right now I think

Why?

unvote;

Why?

Also Boonies, I've skimmed through your past games and you're playing shit all here, mang.

[TobyLoby]

Boons, you you've commented a few times on the "townie" thing. A few people have said our roles have townie but bjc does not. What does that mean to you?

[TobyLoby]

Why aren't you voting him then, Boon?

[TobyLoby]

Bjc, you're going to have to explain how hammering yourself at L-2 is a pro-town thing to do. You'd be doing the mafia's job for them while taking a power role out of the game.

[TobyLoby]

Looking around the site it seems I was very confused on how differently roles are worded and named here. I don't have issue anymore, except for perhaps the green thing, on how the bjc's role itself was displayed.

[TobyLoby]

Looking around the site it seems I was very confused on how differently roles are worded and named here. I don't have issue anymore, except for perhaps the green thing, on how the bjc's role itself was displayed.

Shouldn't your reaction be the opposite? Roles are differently named on the site so how did bjc name his role so oddly compared to the rest of the town players. It's right there in his pm if he's town. And he just assumed that the role's are green just because that's how they are 90% of the time. But this is tha 10% variance and he messed it up.

From your point of view, what is it about bjc's role name that makes it oddly named to you not only in this game but also perhaps compared to other games you've been in?

[TobyLoby]

Cerberus, what is it about

Post 197

that didn't convince you? Convince you of what?

Spoiler: Current vote count for my own use

A current vote count for my use

:

kushm4sta

: (1) kushm4sta

reinoe

: (1) VictorDeAngelo

AbboTT

: (1) TobyLoby

Flubbernugget

: (3) AbboTT, Boonskiies, cerberus48,

bjc

: (2) Flubbernugget, reinoe

Onox

: (1) Clusk92

Not Voting

: skipping_on_stars, Onox, rblinker123, bjc

7 to lynch.

[TobyLoby]

UNVOTE: AboTT
VOTE: Onox

I really don't know anything about Mafia, but am happy there's people here who do.

Um... there was no color in my role pm either...

Is the same person who earlier used mafia terms:

It's nice meeting you all.

Nothing's really pinging the Scumdar right now.

Sensewise it feels like Boonskiies and bjc are Town? Reinoe's starting too feel Townish, too.

Toby, why are you voting for Boonskiies?

Bjc's likely Town guys.

[TobyLoby]

This game is lame with all the people disappearing.

UNVOTE: Onox
VOTE: Flubbernugget

This day confirms to me you've been actively avoiding the thread, Flubberoo.

[TobyLoby]

@bjc

, I've heard two explanations by people about why you said your pm is green. To be clear, why did you exactly?

[TobyLoby]

Reinoe's tunnel here bothers me a lot.

VOTE: Reinoe

Cool. How is it scummy?

[TobyLoby]

Reinoe's tunnel here bothers me a lot.

VOTE: Reinoe

But seriously, what about it is scummy?

[TobyLoby]

FlubbTheWubb Profile

Flubberoni has definitely been avoiding the thread. \ / So has skipping_on_stars now that I look. We have a bunch of lurkypooh bears. P-edit I wrote this before ^^^ too lazy to erase.

Avoiding commenting more on the Onox thing before I see this observations post.

[TobyLoby]

I like mad Flubbery. Please post more if you can

Flubs, to clarify, do you still see bjc as scum? I'm confused at what's going on here tbh

[TobyLoby]

Wake, who is da scum?

[TobyLoby]

If I cast a serious vote, there's a possibility Scum will jump on the wagon and see Scum lynched.

oh god is this walls fest you and and victor bussing?!?!

Wake, when I look back at the game this is my issue:

It's nice meeting you all.

Nothing's really pinging the Scumdar right now.

Sensewise it feels like Boonskiies and bjc are Town? Reinoe's starting too feel Townish, too.

Toby, why are you voting for Boonskiies?

Bjc's likely Town guys.

I really don't know anything about Mafia, but am happy there's people here who do.

Um... there was no color in my role pm either...

In the first quote you call bjc town after the green + shiny incident. Similar to what you're doing now with the green + shiny thing as being a nonissue. In the second quote though, you talk about the incident again and you say your role pm doesn't have color either. This is similar to the reasoning people used at the beginning to put votes on bjc, so looks to me like you're potentially putting some shade on bjc here which goes against everything else I am seeing here.

[TobyLoby]

Right now I'm looking to vote Wake for the above, but I want to reread the game first as I feel like I've been asking more questions lately than actual scum hunting. That, and I don't want bjc to badading hammer him before I get the chance.

[TobyLoby]

No. Mentioning the color of the post has no implied reasoning in it at all.

And you are answering for him because. . ?

Okay. So I ran an ISO of Victor. He's not as inactive as I thought. But him going after Wake is the first thing I've seen him do that felt more proactive than reactive. But if 14 pages in, if you can't do much more than lecture the person acting like the new guy (I have no idea how all this alt nonsense actually works into this guy being "new"), you really don't need to be here.

So wait. You've gone from voting for who you believe is scummy, to voting for Victor, who you believe is being

more

proactive, but now you believe he should go because he just doesn't need to be here.

Haha k.

[TobyLoby]

I mean, really. This doesn't make sense.

[TobyLoby]

[TobyLoby]

Your reasoning for voting him looks more to get rid of him because we don't need him [period] than get rid of him because [he's scummy]

Take your analogy and apply it to Victor's gameplay and show me what you mean.

[TobyLoby]

You'v has like, zero scum read on the guy.

[TobyLoby]

*You've had

This sudden change of votes doesn't make sense to me. But I guess whatever. *twiddles thumbs*

[TobyLoby]

Anyone else notice people have been treating Cerebus as scummy but not actually calling him scummy or doing anything about it?

[TobyLoby]

Low information kill. Few thoughts come to mind:

Town could, as a whole, be on the wrong path (and/or) scum team members has experience playing with Marquis. I was thinking more so the latter (scum having experience with Marquis) when I saw the kill. I'm thinking the Marquis bit factors into it since he was killed over someone like Saki. Alternatively, it could be because Saki

is

scum.

I looked it up and almost everyone (I stopped on Reinoe thinking he may be an alt or read a lot of games) has played with him in the past. Noticeable exceptions are Cerebus, Victor, and Boons who only played a marathon with him and they barely interacted. Doesn't mean much to me right now especially with multiple people on a scum team, but maybe something to chew on later.

[TobyLoby]

Abbott: leaning scum. I would have said likely scum if he hadn't flaked.

Why is that?

[TobyLoby]

^ Why I would have called him scum or why I cut him a break for the site flake?

Why you cut him a break on the site flake.

Looking at what Peabody quoted, why would scum be checking their own role pms?

I'm intrigued.

VOTE: Cerebus

Boons is right. Clusk and him posted one minute apart time code-wise about the green thing.

[TobyLoby]

Mafia wouldn't be looking at their own pm to verify what's on a town pm though.

[TobyLoby]

Possibly not. On the other hand, I recall someone theorizing that the scum's role pm is not colored because the town one isn't. It would work the other way around, too.

It makes no sense for scum to look at their pm to verify. I can see scum agreeing with a non-green pm. I can see them going back to the queue thread to look at the townie pm, but I can't see scum looking at their own pm to verify and then hop on a minute after Boons did.

There is stuff regarding abboTT I disagree with it, but it's something I'd rather go into later.

Ruff, why didn't you vote for one of your scum reads off the bat?

[TobyLoby]

Where is everyone?

[TobyLoby]

There is no tackling out of this one.

[TobyLoby]

UNVOTE: Cerberus just in case.

[TobyLoby]

Peabody, what makes you townread Victor?

[TobyLoby]

I never received a two day notice.

his repeated mention of him wanting more from me appears to be a genuine plea to get some sort of read from me.

This is a good point, actually.

Regarding Ruff's alignment, I have a leaning scum read on the slot. I have admittedly been ignoring reading both his and victor's back and forth though.

[TobyLoby]

Cerbs, that reads like you meshed Onox and Reinoe together and then voted them because they seem town but not confirm town? It's not making sense to me.

Ruff, no one is reading a post by post summarization of someone.

[TobyLoby]

It's kinda ehhy, but it's still

there

.

Victor's worst points against him is that vote over to Flubs for reasons I can't discern.

[TobyLoby]

Admittedly, I'm like half in the game right now because it feels so dead.

[TobyLoby]

I'm mainly waiting around for the cerbs drama tbh.

[TobyLoby]

I think the long night sucked out some momentum, but I've noticed a few mods in the replacement queue looking for a bunch of replacements at once. These players are flaking or being lamers on their own accord.

[TobyLoby]

:crickets:

Victor, can you explain why you switched to Flibbertigibbet (aka Flubber)? I don't get your progression there. Why did you think he was scummy up to that point?

[TobyLoby]

Did you think he was scum along with Wake or scummy separate from Wake?

[TobyLoby]

erm idk why you wouldn't be checking the game even if it turned night

I'm going to sit down within the next few hours and actually give this game a lookyloo.

[TobyLoby]

dat looks scummy though

[TobyLoby]

The early Boons wagon in the game is just very upsetting because if scum read the rules, it makes it easy to get on a wagon while not actually being on a wagon. You get the most out of this if your buddy goes up though, so you get the bussing points without bussing. Boons is really a toss-up for me. If it weren't for him pointing out the green pm thing he'd be near the top of my scum list. He doesn't post much, but he's obviously reading the thread.

For example,

im not lurking! caught up! nothing to add! my vote has been placed already.

He made this a few hours after I commented on luckypoohbears.

But would scum be so bold as to risk being the first pointing out a difference in a pm which isn't their own? This also depends on if they realize what a real townie pm looks like and you can find it in the Normal Games thread. I lean towards scum not wanting to be that bold though.

[TobyLoby]

But actually, the logic "if scum has no color in pms they probably figure townies don't either." lends itself to the case that scum would already know at the time of the green pm thing. Still, how bold is scum willing to be?

I've thought about whether a scum Boons and a scum bjc planned it to gain townie points for Boons' (this also assumes day talk), but that has the potential of irreparably hurting bjc in the process so I don't know about that.

[TobyLoby]

This guy isn't coming back.

[TobyLoby]

VOTE: Saki

ok.

[TobyLoby]

it's p awesome if I do say so myself.

but glad i got your attention. what has your skimmed reading gotten us? Why wouldn't a townie like yourself care to look in a thread if you believe it's night three days since your previous post?

[TobyLoby]

UNVOTE:

I have the same feeling regarding Ruff's slot, but I'm also paranoid it could be one of those scum slots who could be that scum who everyone thinks is scum but still ends up surviving to the end heh. There could also be bussing or most of us are town.

I still have a little AbboTT scum read and would love that slot replaced.

I have a question regarding something I said which Flubbster hated:

It's nice meeting you all.

Nothing's really pinging the Scumdar right now.

Sensewise it feels like Boonskiies and bjc are Town? Reinoe's starting too feel Townish, too.

Toby, why are you voting for Boonskiies?

Bjc's likely Town guys.

I really don't know anything about Mafia, but am happy there's people here who do.

Um... there was no color in my role pm either...

To me it looks like in the last post looks like Onox is detracting from his earlier statement. Am I over reading this?

[TobyLoby]

It doesn't look like he's replying to anyone or anything in particular.

@Mod: I noticed the Replacement Requests doesn't have our game featured. Maybe advertise the game for replacements again?

[TobyLoby]

How would it be manipulating the mod?

[TobyLoby]

I don't believe there used to be a sample role pm in the OP which is part of the cause of the argument. bjc couldn't easily argue that it didn't matter what he said since everyone should know what the pm looks like. You had to look for it in the normal queue.

Because obv whether or not it's true or not true focusing on the front color feels like it's manipulation of the new-mod and the ability to use the front colors right or wrong.

but it's not boonies who brought it up the color in the pm. It was bjc. do you not think it was at least worth questioning?

[TobyLoby]

I know they weren't colored, but then checking the sample role PM in the OP it's in green, so yeah, there's a bit of a difference between what the mod gave us and what's posted in the OP.

this doesn't seem to jive with your idea of boons manipulating the mod though?

[TobyLoby]

Ruff, thoughts on Evil Regals?

[TobyLoby]

There are things I disagree with but they aren't important right now.

1) The argument concerning Wake isn't entirely dependant on his being an alt. It's what he said while being on his alt. Thoughts?

2) Reads on anyone not just Reinoe? And how about his connection with Boons?

3) Bjc voted Reinoe. So it couldn't be that he was so wrong.

[TobyLoby]

i mean like, beyond "town/scum/watch for that fellow" reads.

[TobyLoby]

Like I said, whole thing is null at best. Do you honestly think that Wake made an alt with the intention of faking having no knowledge if and only if he drew scum? I don't. I think he was going to do what he did no matter what alignment he drew.

That is not what is being discussed here. At least never by me. Alts, I don't care. I am talking about content.

So you're saying that there are not only three scum, but three scum with four votes.

And you think that's balanced?

I linked a game earlier in the thread that yes you can have three scum with one being a double voter.

[TobyLoby]

Reinoe, what is your role name? Just 1-shot cop?

[TobyLoby]

I'm reading Reinoe as scum and Victor as town. Pages 8-10 for the former and post 236 for the latter.

On page 11.

On to current game stuff, I'm not sold on Rainbowdash's "case" one bit. Anything that starts off with that much, what's it called, confirmation bias?, doesn't make for a good case.

what do you mean by confirmation bias? what is it about what they said?

what about reinoe on pages 8-10 made him scum to you?

[TobyLoby]

I guess you know where I was getting at there. :X

[TobyLoby]

I don't see why scum would just claim so early. it looks like he was revving up to this before you even voted him though.

[TobyLoby]

but hostty, answer my questions.

[TobyLoby]

where is the second cop (or the first)?

[TobyLoby]

Reinoe, question. Why did you hint so badly at having a role at the end of d1?

[TobyLoby]

to risk potentially being nightkilled for?

[TobyLoby]

i don't see what as lying

what did you think peabody was?

[TobyLoby]

i thought he voted him on the color. i made the stink about townie vs town and he engaged me on that after Boons asked reinoe if his role said townie. him saying yes to boons is an interesting point in itself.

[TobyLoby]

we have no way to confirm there are three scum right now. There have been three scum with a dv in a game anyway. But we have no information telling us the number of scum at this moment. i personally don't take someone's plain claim to be ofc confirmed anyway and generally people should not.

are you.. accusing someone not voting you of trying to push... your mislynch...........?

[TobyLoby]

question rainbow, can you confirm

Because the pr's say "townie" in one section and "town" in another.

this?

[TobyLoby]

thanks, hostile. thanks a lot.

[TobyLoby]

you are the champ.

[TobyLoby]

but are you saying mafia get that then too?????

[TobyLoby]

Rainbow, I am going to take that as you do.

Hostile, I highly doubt:

Hi, player x. You are a townie.Each day you can vote to lynch a player you believe is scum. You win when all the scum in town are killed.

Scum are going to get this win condition. But I am curious about you thinking either might.

[TobyLoby]

We need Peabody and the Queen in here. Boons actually posting would be great too.

[TobyLoby]

Wow this is awesome. Now I'm wondering about the mafia kill.

[TobyLoby]

I'm with Hostile and in general, spill all the beans.

Concerning leashing, I feel very meh about it. I don't have any experience in doing that. I am super paranoid in mafia claiming sk though.

[TobyLoby]

High risk high reward potential. I don't like the idea of leashing in small games though.

[TobyLoby]

I think I unvoted at some point after the failed saki vote, but it doesn't matter. With the double vote it should be six on Ruffs though?

Kinda wanted people to come in before anyone hammering but with it out in the air I don't know what useful reactions we'd get on what happened tonight. Would prefer a mafia lynch though.

[TobyLoby]

From what I understand, he flipped vanilla townie and the colors don't matter.

I'll get to this later tonight or tomorrow. (Sorry Reinoe) but Hostile Intent I think has to be def town though because I don't see why Clusk would change wagons to vote or out a partner like that.

[TobyLoby]

- I think Boons is most likely town due to the pm thing. I do have some weird theory of Boons being a scum buddy to explain Ruff's conversation with me on how it's so easy for scum to fake knowing the pm (scum pms being noncolored meaning they also would know town's pms are uncolored and would also be checking their pm.)
- Hostile is town read based on my earlier statement
- Peabody seems townie to me in our interactions
- Cerberus, I hate to say it, but I'm kinda leaning town on him because there was no mod note about him when the say started. Although, I am questioning how reliable the timing of his last log-in is.

- BJC/Rainbow slot is up in the air for me. I didn't like their entrance or their discussion over those Onox posts with me. Ruff calling this slot obvtown though makes me say nah on this right now though.

- Saki unknown

- Victor I have to look up. I barely read what he said yesterday. I have to read how he meshed with Ruff. Actually, I looked back a little. Ruff changing his vote to Victor off of Clusk is weird.

- I agree with Peabody about the AbboTT slot.

VOTE: Evil Regals

[TobyLoby]

*when the day started

[TobyLoby]

I agree in general about AbboTT slot being scum. AbboTT has been one of my top scum reads since D1 and I didn't care for Evil Regal's entrance, especially in regard to her read on manipulating the mod. I also highly suspect Evil Regal of clearing Ruff based on meta reasons. It's an easy way to handwave off trying to explain a read on a slot.

These two quotes specifically I don't think mesh together:

I'm actually liking ruffling for town. More because I just had completed game with him. He was scum there and is totally different than he is right now.

I'm actually liking ruffling for town. More because I just had completed game with him. He was scum there and is totally different than he is right now.

There's the resistance we were discussing, Toby.

I'm not sure as hell that you can call my one "I don't wish to vote ruff as of yet" as a resistance. if anything I'm hesitant in voting him because he seems to be completely different than scum-ruff that i faced in a completed game.

VOTE: Peabody

I'm either good with this lynch or a Boonskiies.

I read the above as saying she's town and the below talking about Ruff in terms of being a possible scum read. Her interpretation of what you said doesn't make sense to me at very least. What do you think?

Here is what I said D1 regarding AbboTT:

AbboTT is my top scum read atm. That was an easy vote to reason putting on Boons in the beginning, but it is his questioning of what Victor is doing while also calling him "hopeless town" when Victor was gaining some heat in Post #112 which is scummiest to me. It's playing in the mud on Victor's alignment while also saying he believes that someone is town. It's having it both ways without having to commit.

UNVOTE: Boonskiies
VOTE: AbboTT

And my last interaction with him (I think):

It's having it both ways without having to commit.

Which "other" way am I having it, exactly? I said I'm reading Victor as town. If you don't read "hopeless" in the way he was posting then I'd be curious to know your interpretation.

Nah, this has nothing to do about that

I

think about Victor's alignment. I was talking about how you, in that same post, were calling into question what Victor is doing while then calling him hopeless town. What were you trying to accomplish when speaking to Victor in Post #112?

The direct quote above felt like an attempt to twist it to be about my personal read on Victor when that was not what was being discussed.

[TobyLoby]

Rainbow (and everyone else) are also free to comment on the above. What is your read on the AbboTT slot? What do you agree or disagree with?

[TobyLoby]

Also, it's very unlikely that Hostile would be scum with Saki
Victor scum with Saki
Boons scum with Victor
or Peabody scum with AbboTT.

I don't think scum is likely coming out of the door today voting for a scum buddy after that sudden loss of Ruff on D2 (which is still pretty early on for this game imo). And I think part of the reason we're not seeing a lot of talk happening today so far because with Ruff being lynched quickly and Reinoe dead, there is not a lot of conversations to continue on or argue about. Scum have to make up new reads.

[TobyLoby]

Is he fo sho scum?

[TobyLoby]

Actually, can you speak?

[TobyLoby]

If I cast a serious vote, there's a possibility Scum will jump on the wagon and see Scum lynched.

oh god is this walls fest you and and victor bussing?!?!

Was it really a slip?!

[TobyLoby]

The jig is up, Victor.

[TobyLoby]

You've been Boon'd.

[TobyLoby]

UNVOTE: Evil Regal
VOTE: Victor

I'd prefer no quick lynches, please.

[TobyLoby]

*takes a puff of a cigarette*

Scum just aren't what they used to be, Peabody.

*tries to shake head while hacking up phlegm*

[TobyLoby]

I'm not auto buying anything. I'm helping put pressure behind these claims whether they're real or not. Considering Reinoe also went with what Cerebus said (and in the same joking manner as I was), I don't see how you can think that is any sort of a tell other than something to back-up what you're trying to purport.

The entire game he was calling Wake scum, yet always found ways to not vote him except for one point, then they jump to vote

1) Flubber for avoiding the game
2) Cerberus for posting at about the same time as another about role colors
3) Saki for lurking

1) True. I did it tp put pressure on him to come in.
2) I didn't put my vote on Cerberus for that whatsoever. It was based on Peabody. Quote me on that where I voted him on whatever you're trying to claim here.
3) I voted Saki to hopefully spur him to post when he was actually around. Oh, and then I unvoted.

The only time I messed up was by not taking my vote off the of Flubbs before changing it as I wanted to read the game over (and I still didn't get around to it properly heh). I expected with bjc already on Flubbs I didn't need to take my vote off and have two people jump over to hammer which I didn't expect. I didn't put a very serious vote on anyone yesterday which I think is indicated by my voting and unvoting or nonvoting entirely, and I didn't want there to be a quick vote on Ruff yesterday before everyone came in. We spent most of the day waiting for replacements to come in.

[TobyLoby]

*Went with what Peabody said.

I want to hear your commentary on the AbboTT case made by Peabody and then by myself.

[TobyLoby]

@Toby - I cant tell why you voted Cerberus. That is best I could come up with.

You just told me why you think I voted Cerebus here:

The entire game he was calling Wake scum, yet always found ways to not vote him except for one point, then they jump to vote

. . .

2) Cerberus for posting at about the same time as another about role colors
. . .

So how are you saying you can't tell me why now? You used this as a point against me as reasoning for me as voting him instead of Ruff. I want you to back it up this assertion.

[TobyLoby]

That's what it looked to me like you were saying when you voted him. I am saying if that's not it, you should be saying what it is right about now. You seem to be saying that's not it, and then not telling me what it really is.

As I asked before, please quote where you got this from:

2) Cerberus for posting at about the same time as another about role colors

I already explained why I voted Cerebus but you have not quoted me on the point you made. This is on you.

Boons, just come out.

[TobyLoby]

Oh jesus christ. I went back. Is it really that fucking hard to quote the post? My vote wasn't related to what I said after the vote

It was responding to Peabody saying this

I think Victor is likely town. Also, if what boonskiies said is true, same for Clusk.

Boons is right. Clusk and him posted one minute apart time code-wise about the green thing.

And as I already said on this very page, it was to help put pressure on Cerebus.

You either have horrible reading comprehension or you're really searching for shit straws. I mean seriously, if you read the game I'd figure someone could figure out who "him" was even if you somehow couldn't relate it to Boons. But idk, you have posted shit for reads.

[TobyLoby]

Crikey! We got ourselves a live Saki in here!

Sakis are this threads' second most rare sighting, right next to the mythic RBlinkers. She is a real beaut. Now, we got to be careful with wild Sakis. It's easy to scare them off. I'm going to try and tempt him to come on over so we can get a real good look at him.

*whistles*

Saki. Sakkiiiii.

Don't think you're going to come back into this thread.

[TobyLoby]

@Boon - Im still confirmed town for being a double voter. You need to explain how one could exist in a normal with three scum. If your argument is that there are two scum, then you lynch me at F5. Its next to impossible for there to be a scum DV because it pushes lylo up a day. Meaning it essentially this would be a four scum game if I was town.

There have been scum doublevoters in this little of a game (and in normal) with three scum as I've pointed out in the past. I really can't see there being a two scum team with one being double voter because having them lynched would be bullshit. If Rainbowdash is a scum voter then it's very likely they'd be the only PR on the team.

Rainbowdash, can you give more full reads please on everyone? I'm not asking for a three paragraph essay on everyone. Reads with a little explanation behind each. Feel free to skip me as you've already done that read.

UNVOTE: Victor
VOTE: Evil

[TobyLoby]

Victor's alignment really comes down to the question, "if Victor is scum, is he the type that likes to full on bus? If he's scum, he has to have bussed hard but not as hard as a Clusk scum would have had to. Would Ruff have changed his vote suddenly onto a partner D2? I think Ruff prides himself on not making his connections to his scum buddies clear so I don't know. It's something I have to look into for the both of them.

Part of me can't shake this doubt I have on Victor. I think his response to Boons was kinda townie in a frustrated town sort of way though.

[TobyLoby]

For Boons I think it comes down to, would scum do try and do a reaction test (as I believe it is) if not on their own partner? What is the point other than to make a fake ass scum or town read? And why then make a fake ass town read on one person?

[TobyLoby]

and to repeat, I don't think a scum boons is coming out of the gate voting scum buddy victor.

[TobyLoby]

Rainbowdash, do you have any restrictions in your doublevote ability such as it going away in lylo/mylo?

[TobyLoby]

Considering you are favouring me as scum, a possible Boons scum, a possible Saki scum, an Evil null, a Clusk town, you are talking to Peabody as if he's a townie, so far we can sum up:

Clusk: town
Toby: scum
Boons: Possible scum
Abbot slot: null
Cerebus: ??
Peabody: Most likely you find him town.
Saki: possible scum
Victor: you either think he is town or he is null but you definitely read him as scum.

So I am going to consider this as your legit reads list until said otherwise.

[TobyLoby]

*definitely don't read him as scum

[TobyLoby]

@Boon - Im still confirmed town for being a double voter. You need to explain how one could exist in a normal with three scum. If your argument is that there are two scum, then you lynch me at F5. Its next to impossible for there to be a scum DV because it pushes lylo up a day. Meaning it essentially this would be a four scum game if I was town.

This shouldn't be in discussion, at least not this point in the game.

Waiting on lynching Rainbowdash at five players, as suggested by Rainbow, creates quite the conundrum assuming we mislynch until then.

a) it would be a scum auto win if there are three scum anyway at F5 (assuming their double vote is still activated).
b) wifom over a two person scum team with Rainbowdash. If we're at five players we can't afford to mislynch a town. wifom wifom Rainbowdash scum or not wifom wifom. If we mislynch a town Rainbowdash town loses. If we fail to lynch a scum Rainbowdash we might lose.

To be clear, I'm not saying to lynch Rainbow. I am saying their argument to wait until F5 to then check on their alignment isn't that clear-cut.

[TobyLoby]

Who is scum then Evil?

[TobyLoby]

Assuming Ruff is played the same way, wouldn't Victor qualify? Victor and Ruff mainly spoke to each other.

[TobyLoby]

@Mod: Can you prod Saki? Thank you.

Is there anything beyond meta reasoning?

[TobyLoby]

@Boons,

Rainbowdash covered some of it herself,

I am confirmed town just through basic theory because I am a double voter.

only would there need to only be two scum for my slot to end up town

, but the town would need to be amazingly overpowered since it would move the win threshold for scum up one day. The fact that I am NOT dead suggests that scum actually fails to realize this theory or that bjc was way off on his reads and scum was happy keeping him alive for a day.

(+ killing 'cop' reinoe)

Although I think if there was ever slip, this would be the better one.

[TobyLoby]

RBD, why do you lean scum on Boons? Or have him as a possibility at the very least.

[TobyLoby]

I'm not sure what Evil's reasoning is, but I doubt it's a meta based read.

Why is that?

[TobyLoby]

What game were you in with Victor and in what way do you believe he is being different?

[TobyLoby]

Okay my turn to read. To be super clear, what mala? I only know of a malakittens. I've clicked on sigs and they are not helping.

Hoe is this not the victor you know? I assume a town victor in this scenario.

[TobyLoby]

*how

[TobyLoby]

I am not spending more than 5 minutes figuring out people's names, especially when all I want are games and explanations. idk how hard it can be.

Victor, why the Regal vote right now? Out of everything why now? I am not seeing the connection here.

Okay guys, I want no quickhammers or any of that shit here. I am checking up on the games between these two scumbirds.

[TobyLoby]

I wanted to mainly verify games together [and laughed at a Kill: Bill(i)]. I'm only familiar with 1+ year-old Mala games I've read and have no prior knowledge of Victor. Of what I know and briefly read though, you're both being lamers this game.

@Regal

, yesterday you had Victor as town through-out your reading in post 561 and post 563.

At what point did you lose that read?

When Reinoe talked about Victor's play he had this to say:

The problem is that Victor does seem to be giving up. He's just kinda floating around and going with the flow: I'm having trouble describing it. Even if he is feeling dejected he should at least be able to share some cursory opinions on the game at this point. cerberus, what are your thoughts on Victor? Onyx, same question. People should talk more: we have three players with only one post.

From what I gathered i thought that is his playstyle in general.

??

[TobyLoby]

To be clear,

Evil Regal is at L-1

.

No quickhammers.

[TobyLoby]

Your time is almost up, queen dearie.

[TobyLoby]

RBD, explain to me the scum motivation or intent of someone outing themselves as VT on page 7.

[TobyLoby]

Thanks Saki

[TobyLoby]

I hate everyone this game.

[TobyLoby]

@Mod:I implore you to add some sort of prod limit with automatic replacement after 3 pods or so

.

No one can do shit all with someone purposely drawing out prods with nothing to fear. It was less than three hours before a replacement had to be started to be looked for and he was on last night.

You have to be reading the game in order to get a hammer like that off.

[TobyLoby]

What is the scum motivation to lock themselves into a role on page 7?

I welcome you to tell me.

Please.

[TobyLoby]

What is the scum motivation? To enact some long term game plan to take down your slot? plz explain. I'm really curious.

Btw if you're still around, since you believe you are going to for sure die, why do you think Boons is scum?

[TobyLoby]

You keep trying to avoid my question.

Thanks for the answer for the Boons. You had a scummy read on him yesterday though. Your reads have virtually been unchanged.

[TobyLoby]

Your scummy reads, at least.

[TobyLoby]

RBD if your town, consider all of this help 4 you to stay alive throughout the night.

Treat those for sure town players as scum and those scum players as town. town uber tactics 101

[TobyLoby]

Hello, I am confirmed townie Tobyloby.

This will be my main contribution today and the last for the game as I will surely perish tonight.

Pretend you are a VT and then come out later. town uber tactics 101 wifom wifom.

Keep them on their toes.

[TobyLoby]

Did we win?

[TobyLoby]

I am happy and confused all the same.

[TobyLoby]

Was there a traitor?

[TobyLoby]

That traitor sucked then.

[TobyLoby]

Wow HI, totally no idea. That explains everything.

[TobyLoby]

I'm guessing the double voter was to be a possible double edged sword. bjc and Rainbow were gunning for all townies, for example. The further the game went the more troublesome it could have gotten.

Yeah the scum flaking really hurt them. The Onox slip was the worst but abboTT may have been able to survive through some suspicion.

One thing I can think of is to have a way to obscure if someone has a night action and find all replacements before day starts. This game was really suffering badly looking for replacements all around unfortunately.

[TobyLoby]

Yeah good game Evil and Ruff. Why sk claim by the way?

You did well, Peabody. Can't remember anybody questioning if you were scum and your abbott/regal case was good. You were very townie. I didn't understand the scum hate for Reinoe before the cop claim. Easier to say that now though!

I said I hated everyone, but nah.