Mini 1601: B_E's Mind Mafia ABANDIFIED

[Aegor]

VOTE: NicCage

Sheeping ABR as a cover for my real reason for voting.

[Aegor]

No.

[Aegor]

Sheeping ABR as a cover for my real reason for voting.

What is your real reason for voting? Sorry, but you're leaving me very confused.
This sentence is confusing and makes little sense.

UNVOTE: Hep
VOTE: Aegor]
Dude, don't say something extremely vague and suspicious, and ignore people when you're asked to clarify.
Anti town as shit itself.

It was part of a masterplan in which I would fakeclaim Day Cop with a guilty on NicCage and then see what happened. I decided against it because I was worried that given the playerlist and my unfamiliarity with most of it, the potential real Cop would counterclaim, not realizing that I was not serious, and out himself. So...I improvised.

Still fine with my vote, though.

[Aegor]

FoS: Riddleton

for picking low-hanging fruit (Csareo).

[Aegor]

Still good with NicCage.

It has been way too long since we last played together, ABR. You better not be scum this game.

Are you?

[Aegor]

FoS: Riddleton

for picking low-hanging fruit (Csareo).

what do you think of this:

If one of you flips scum, I will be taking long looks at the other.

i.e. dybeck thinking that Csareo and I are a possible scumteam? I was actual unclear on waht dybeck was saying.

[Aegor]

Also, are you suggesting that it is scummy because he is chaining lynches or setting up a mislynch (and that one of us is his buddy)?

[Aegor]

Then I guess I was unclear on what dybeck was saying.


Who is Bullish?

[Aegor]

Okay, I'm back. Read everything up again, so let's go through this one by one.

#114- Classic scum IMO. Put three things up that are doing nothing that he is saying they are. Is it just me, or has Ythill STILL not answered why he changed stances?
I feel like such a switch would result in instant suspicion, but TSO coming into the game gave a little wiggle room off the main topic.

#128- I also had reasonable suspicion of Aegor's claim. Partially why I was pushing him so hard. I know that if there wasn't a definite answer, he wold have to make one up.
The only issue is Aegor obviously had an initial meaning behind that vote, so it isn't like he said that for the sake of saying ignorant things.

#121- How come daytalk speculation is WIFOM? I am new to this site. I haven't been on mafiascum for 7 years like you have. Is it default in all games, standard, ect.? I don't know how things work here. Asking these questions is absolutely essential for catching scum.
#121(2)- Why do you say it as if it were a scum read?

@Ythill- Stop saying stupid things like "when we have a confirmed allignment". In mafia, this is usually indirectly telling us that you already have an idea on affiliation.
@Ythill2-Explain your almost immediate change of stance.
@TOS- You came to the game late. Any summary would be appreciated, at least in my book.

@Riddleton- Stop hinting that I'm scum while also buddying with me. Nothing personal, but nothing looks worst in mafia than unusual attachments early into the game.
I'm glad that you have taken times to pla both sides of the card, but to any observer it would look like you're subtly buddying with me.

I am really not liking the Csareo wagon. I am also completely dissatisfied with Ythill's posts and his flip-flop that, as far as I am concerned, remains unexplained.

[Aegor]

Also, the block quote was included so I could specifically respond to my initial vote, which had no real reasoning behind it. It was purely a reaction test.

[Aegor]

Not feeling the Csareo wagon.

VOTE: ABR

[Aegor]

VOTE: Csareo

[Aegor]

Csareo, what is a policy vote?

[Aegor]

Also,

FoS: ABR

for his OMGUS.

[Aegor]

Csareo, what is a policy vote?

A vote based on policy, e.g, vote inactives to prevent inactivity, e.g, vote people giving bad theory to dispromote bad theory.

Great. How is your vote on Riddleton a policy vote?

[Aegor]

@Csareo

: Why did you vote for Riddleton "on policy" while providing justification that he is scummy?

[Aegor]

Who would help me with an ABR wagon?

[Aegor]

I feel like Ythill is getting voted for what is clearly playstyle.

[Aegor]

Aegor, why do you think it is playstyle?

He...he

explained

exactly how it was his playstyle and his approach to Day 1.

@Aegor: It seems to me that his playstyle is involved only insofar as he uses VC's to influence his tells more often than other players might. The choice to not share that information seems to me to be a decision made independent of his style. I have never seen a town benefit from less information, have you?

I think ti is not a matter of arbitrarily restricting information and more holding back until the information can be used productively. Does a Cop claim Day 1? Does a Cop claim after an inno, or wait and hope to get a guilty before an NK? etc.



VOTE: Kid A

[Aegor]

@Aegor: Any particular reason for the Kid A vote? Just trying to stir him out of his inactivity?

He voted Riddelton and promised a full case. As far as I am concerned, he is voteparking.


Also, I just now found out by clicking the wrong icon that you can ISO multiple people at the same time.

[Aegor]

Okay, the game state has changed. I'd still rather not engage in full disclosure but I will, since the curiosity has been linked to questions about my alignment.

I do not like this post. If Csareo gets lynched, I will return to it. This is more of a personal note than anyhting.

I just now found out by clicking the wrong icon that you can ISO multiple people at the same time.

Were you isoing Kid? Why?

Yes; I wanted to see his three posts.

Csareo has literally been raining scumtells but I'm not sure one person has stuck up in his defense once.

I am not really happy with the Csareo lynch and do not want the day to end. While Csareo has some bad posts, I am not yet fully convinced they come from scum.

[Aegor]

Not in particular; I just wanted to make sure my vote was good.

[Aegor]

We have over a week left. I am sad.

[Aegor]

LA until Friday; should be able to post.

[Aegor]

Just saw that Aegor answered my question and it confirms my suspicion about him. See posts #253, 258, 277, & 279. Aegor voted Kid and then, after asked why he voted, ISO'd to make sure it was valid. Seems more scum than town. Although I've had Aegor as town so... meh.

What? I ISOd Kid A before I voted.

I don't get the Kid A wagon; I'm scumreading him, but the majority of votes seem to be to get a wagon, not a lynch. If you tell the guy they're just pressure votes, you're defeating the entire point of your vote.

My vote is for a lynch. He is useless and probably scum, and just beetlejuiced.

[Aegor]

1) Why is beetlejuicing a scumtell? Do you honestly believe that someone being useless makes them 100% scum? Why are you focusing on someone supposedly useless like Kid A, who has claimed an intent to hammer/lynch (I still don't even know if Csareo was at L-1 or not, lol) whereas someone like OkaPoka has quite effectively done nothing?

Beetlejuicing is scummy because it by definition refers to someone who does not contribute except in self-defense. The person is clearly reading the thread but not posting. Obvious conclusions follow.

Someone being 100% useless makes them a good lynch in many situations; scumminess is secondary most Day 1s and inherent some Day 1s and subsequent Days.

I voted the ABR slot, so I do not know what you mean.

2) Why don't you like the Csareo wagon? You said you didn't like it multiple times but then voted him anyway, and then backed off again and never explained why at any point.

I did not like it. I voted him because of 172; I wanted to press him to confirm my read. Hence my questions in 179, 186, 206. Then I backed off again because I do not think the slot is scum.

3) Why is it that Riddleton is an

FoS

for you? You said that Csareo is low-hanging fruit, so I'm assuming that you don't think that he's actually scummy despite saying some scummy things (which is what you said later on in your ISO). You've never explained why any of this is, and then turned around and voted Csareo anyway. So what Riddleton was saying had merit, but then it didn't because...Reasons.

Bad posts do not mean scummy posts; I called his posts bad. Making the leap to scummy posts is scummy itself, and is what I meant by low-hanging fruit.

[Aegor]

The time stamps say bullshit. You voted Kid on 8/17 at 7:36pm. You commented about ISOing when you were asked about the vote, on 8/18 at 11:18am. Please explain why you waited nearly sixteen hours to make that offhanded comment.

I don't care how many towntells you have in my notes, this is a scum lie like whoa.

I ISOed him afterward as well, and at that point discovered that you could look up two people at the same time. I do not understand why this is difficult to grasp.

[Aegor]

So you needed to ISO him again, sixteen hours later, to see what it was in his three posts that you were suspicious of? Poppycock.

No; I wanted to see whether there was anything in those three posts that would have made me change my mind.

If Aegor was lower than L-2 or Csar hadn't claimed, I'd vote him right now. Instead, I'm going to find somewhere useful for my vote and wait to make sure everyone on that wagon is serious. If Aegor gets to L-1 and claims, I WILL hammer him (unless he somehow manages to clear up his lies).

Then why would I want to claim?

[Aegor]

Wait. So you ISO'd him....voted...and then ISO'd again? For three posts? That makes little to no sense.

I make very little sense.

Am I the only one getting townvibes off Aneninen, yeah?

I am as well, which is not surprising to me given the slot.


OkaPoka should probably be lynched. Kid A will probably get replaced, but I still think he is apathetic scum.

[Aegor]

-I agree with Csareo in #42 that the withholding information stategy was flawed. In #63 you elaborated and said you wanted to fakeclaim day cop. That accomplishes nothing but either out the real cop or mislynch a townie as others have said.

I

was the one who said it would accomplish nothing, which is why I did not do it, you boobie.

-Why did you want an ABR wagon? Any particular reason other than to draw him out of inactivity? If it's that, is there a reason why you choose ABR instead of one of the other inactive players at that point?

I know ABR's potential. His retaliatory vote was also bad, but that obviously game after.

-I don't like how you want Oka lynched but didn't provide any case or thoughts on him. A bit hypocritical since you want Kid A's head-on-a-pike for the same reason. Are you voting him because he's not contributing much other than wanting beast lynched? Or are there other reasons?

How can I was Kid A dead "for the same reason" as Oka if I did not provide a case on him? Oka has done nothing. He is a great lynch.

[Aegor]

I'm not sure I agree that we need to rush to a lynch, but it does remind me that Kid A promised a case on Riddleton that I'd like to see, because they are two players that I'm finding it hardest to read. This game felt like it was becoming a lurkers' paradise, and if anyone's capitalised on that, it's Kid A. Looking at his iso shows absolutely no content whatsoever and nobody's really called him on it.

The Kid A wagon exists because I wanted him lynched for lack of content. What are you even talking about?

I think the huge circle-jerk of PBPA might have something to do with that. I could easily lynch the entirety of Riddleton/Ythill/Aegor and not feel bad about the lot of them. There's so many holes in what they're all saying and they all look like they're arguing for the sake of arguing. It all looks like so much white noise and I'm not interested in any of it.

What an absurd dismissal. Why would you have no problem lynching me?

[Aegor]

Aegor, can you tell me your most desirable lynches in order for everyone?

Kid A
OkaPoka
Fat_Tony
(dybeck)

i.e. the lurkers. I have not run into such a level of scumminess from the active players that I really want to lynch them over the nobodies.

[Aegor]

Who are you scumreading out of the active players?

dybeck and shinobi would be my top candidates

[Aegor]

Aegor, I'm not sure I'll ever support a Shinobi wagon, based on the fact he's town as fuck right now.

Explain.

yeah this is basically bull. Riddleton and I gave order - it's not that difficult to do. It also makes it easier for scum-you to opportunistically slide onto any of the three - so order this.

Agreed.

[Aegor]

Who are you scumreading out of the active players?

dybeck and shinobi would be my top candidates

Do you have any grounds for this besides the fact that I really don't give a fuck about you?

Why were you voting me then?

[Aegor]

A lot of your earlier (and current) scumreads are incredibly superficial.

I disagree, and sometimes the most straightforward or seemingly simple reasons are still the most compelling. Having a "deep" case does not make the case compelling or well-reasoned.

I get that you can back them up (sort of), but I don't care because stuff like beetlejuicing/omgus/voting "low picking fruit" are not valid scumtells unless they're in the proper context, and your scumreads never fell under that context. You were more content with dropping suspicion across multiple players without following them up, and you were more obsessed with defending yourself over pressuring your scumreads and trying to determine their alignments.

My scumreads are basically absent from the thread.

[Aegor]

1) Yes it does. We're not killing people just because they're voting someone for voting them without the proper context. We aren't killing people who just so happened to pop up once when their name was dropped.

What is this "context" you keep mentioning? Popping up once one's name is dropped is actually scummy, as I have explained. It is not enough to justify a lynch on its own, but general lurking and beetlejuicing in tandem are.

It's not condemning evidence. This is not enough reason to lynch people. You're acting like it is, and it plain-and-simple isn't. This isn't epicmafia.

Oooooooooooooh...

2) Then I guess all of your FoSes don't count? How are we supposed to know where you stand on anything if you're just going to keep all of your reads a secret?

I mean that the people I am scumreading are not posting.

Do us all a favor and give us your reads list, then, considering apparently nothing I say holds since you haven't given a solid stance on anything thus far. Unless, of course, all of your lynch targets aren't actual scumreads either.

I...I just did this.

[Aegor]

You just said you didn't have any scumreads, in yet you're acting smug because I don't know who your scumreads are.

The fuck.

*You didn't post your scumreads in the thread.

Post 542

[Aegor]

I mean that the people I am scumreading are not posting.

[Aegor]

I keep looking back to see if there's going to be some kind of follow up from Aegor, and...Nothing.

He has like a day before he gets lynched. And I don't mean two weeks.

Follow-up to what?


Oka, please explain your Ythill read.

[Aegor]

@Oka

: Why are you scumreading Ythill?

[Aegor]

@Aegor, this: 539 doesn't make sense for me. I don't like your lynchlist in 542. Okay, many of us think that there is/are scum(s) among the lurkers. But, what's this: "I have not run into such a level of scumminess from the active players that I really want to lynch them over the nobodies."? I don't think you've been scumhunting lately (or at all). And this: 545 "dybeck and shinobi would be my top candidates" – WTF?! You just posted two names without a single argument. And in 550 you want T S O to explain his townread on Shinobi while you haven't posted anything about your scumread on the very same player.

Dybeck's ISO is devoid of content except for 397. No scumhunting, and he asks questions/suggests scenarios throughout his ISO that lead nowhere. It seems very much appearance-based. Which is, interestingly, the charges leveled against me by him.

Shinobi is similar.

But I would rather lynch one of the lurkers.

[Aegor]

@Riddleton: Read the game please.

[Aegor]

VOTE: dybeck

TSO, we both know that Feirei dies tomorrow if dybeck flips scum. Probably Oka, too.

@Aegor: You can't talk about intangible scumreads (such as you're not scumhunting) without providing evidence as to why you actually think that.

I fail to see how I have not provided reasons. Read dybeck's ISO and let me know what contributions you find. The very absence of them is my case.

I'll admit I'm stuck in a tunnel on Aegor. Lots of poorly explained reasoning/reads. He

still

isn't putting any effort into finding people's alignments. It just looks like he's coming to a set of conclusions with no build-up to any of them, and he has no interest in changing any of that. He's really passive and it bothers me.

That is so unfair. Stop pretending that unless I am constantly pushing people, I am doing nothing or am scum. My reads are explained, and I am happy to clarify upon request.

[Aegor]

Lynch dybeck.

[Aegor]

I think it is pretty obvious. Do you really not know?

[Aegor]

Because I would get you lynched.

[Aegor]

Have fun.

[Aegor]

At this point, I am pretty sure Feirei is scum regardless of what dybeck flips. The slot was previously occupied by Kid A, which only makes me more confident.

[Aegor]

Either way, we have a confirmed mafia in Riddleton/Dybeck. If Dybeck flips scum, we are 100% lynching the Csareo slot tomorrow.

Except that they could both be town JKs.

[Aegor]

That being said, dybeck must be lynched. And if/when he flips scum, we can just get Feirei tomorrow.

[Aegor]

Either way, we have a confirmed mafia in Riddleton/Dybeck. If Dybeck flips scum, we are 100% lynching the Csareo slot tomorrow.

Except that they could both be town JKs.

I'm like 100% on this not actually being a thing.

It is a theoretical possibility.

[Aegor]

I sure hope so.

[Aegor]

Could we have the scum QT? Why was I killed?

[Aegor]

Weird, given that I pushed dybeck.