Mini 1623
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copper223 Jack of All Trades
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copper223 Jack of All Trades
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copper223 Jack of All Trades
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copper223 Jack of All Trades
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@Dessew
Sure, the quick game summary:
- Town outsmarted itself by not lynching the obvious scum and thinking he was a VI but corrected the mistake the next day. Ultimately town lost due to a very unlucky set of circumstances that came about because a mafia lurker played against his win-con and created chaos.
what is important for you:
- You should get a baseline of my style as town, I like to scumhunt, I like readlists, I like information sharing and transparency and that's why I gave you the link, people are more likely to check it out if you give it to them and a more informed town is usually a winning town.-
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copper223 Jack of All Trades
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copper223 Jack of All Trades
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@Dessew
It will help you to read me, it is also the play style I find to be the best to win games as town, so if you demand consistency from me, i.e.:
- give lots of readlists and explain your reads
- actively scumhunt and search for player motivations
Then I can demand the same from you and create a healthy town environment where scum is more likely to slip up.
What do you think now?
@Flubber
I don't like that naked vote, looks a lot like sheeping and following the path of least resistance without a reason, care to give one?-
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copper223 Jack of All Trades
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copper223 Jack of All Trades
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copper223 Jack of All Trades
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In post 41, mykonian wrote:In post 9, Anatole Kuragin wrote:sup myko, nat, flubbs, boon, ft, boon
hi anatole.
That I would be very surprised if nobody voted me for that post. Question was more when it happened. Which was really quick, you really liked that opportunity.
Hence, hardly random. You took the mainstream approach, hence you are lame.
In post 39, Boonskiies wrote:Thoughts on Flubber?
well, aren't you a brilliant shitposter.
@Mykonian
That I would be very surprised if nobody voted me for that post. Question was more when it happened. Which was really quick, you really liked that opportunity.
Hence, hardly random. You took the mainstream approach, hence you are lame.
Lol, too bad if I'm lame but if a play is mainstream as you call it, there usually is a reason why. So why did you chose to make a post you knew would be potentially seen as scummy, starting the WIFOM game early?-
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copper223 Jack of All Trades
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Easy, RVS is generally accepted as a good way to start a game, you trying to disrupt it can therefore be seen as anti-town and I see no logical reason for a town player to be anti-town so you are more likely mafia here.
In all seriousness I don't care if you don't like RVS but what you are doing instead makes it impossible for me to get a read on you.-
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copper223 Jack of All Trades
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Mafia is a complex game, there is no one truth about how to play and I am willing to accept different ways to go about it if the player using them brings something to the table, that's why I said generally accepted. Why should that mean it's a bullshit argument?
I can see why RVS can be useful, artificial cross votes between mafia buddies, people crumbling when they have to defend their vote... are some favourable occurencies that can happen for town out of an RVS, I do not see what your depressed post about my lameness and the first comment about many here having silly names does to help town.
My vote was random at the start, I just voted for the first comment I saw and found a reasonable way to apply pressure, it's not random anymore because I don't understand what you are doing so I want to hear more from you, what reads, if any, do you have for instance?
As for arguing for something I don't really believe, I really believe RVS is the best way to start a game, but I can easily see myself taking that stance even if I didn't, applying pressure by building cases on people that might be mafia, to look for alignment indicators, is the way I play. Do you think being hypocritical is alignment indicative?-
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copper223 Jack of All Trades
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copper223 Jack of All Trades
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copper223 Jack of All Trades
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I already told you why I'm voting for you,
1. I read your post and RVSed you, the reason I gave was as good as any, but in this case I actually believed it was a genuine reason, recongnizing it is something I in particular like and not something everybody has to approve of I don't however see what you did as particularly alignment indicative per se.
2. Having read your answers and follow up comments I find that you are either dodging direct questions, like what your reads are or if you find something about my play scummy or not, or not giving alignment indicative statements, so I think you are a fine slot to pressure.-
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copper223 Jack of All Trades
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copper223 Jack of All Trades
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copper223 Jack of All Trades
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copper223 Jack of All Trades
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copper223 Jack of All Trades
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copper223 Jack of All Trades
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@Dessew
I left out myko on purpose to see what he said, you were not on the wagon, you were the player he unvoted.
@Flubber
I don't buy it, maybe as you said it's something you wanted to do anyway but hey in that case you got unlucky, I doubt I will be changing my vote on you unless someone slips up in a huge way.-
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copper223 Jack of All Trades
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No surprise there, it would not be a hard task for scum to misslynch him if this is flubber's standard town play. Naked vote on a guy whose name he claim he doesn't remember, then when a wagon forms on him attempting to buy it off by giving town reads left and right, followed by removing his vote (I can still her the sound of the cave crashing). I don't have past experience with Flubber like you two nor do I think it's good to second guess yourself if you see someone playing scummy just because he looked scummy in the last game as well and he was town. Just do the guy a favour and lynch him, after the x-th mislynch as town I'm sure his game will improve.-
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copper223 Jack of All Trades
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copper223 Jack of All Trades
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copper223 Jack of All Trades
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@WIS
This is exactly what I do as town.
Really? Then you must consider yourself a paragon of scum when playing town then, if people started to vote for me I would ask myself: does their argument have merit, if not as Flubber is implying here, why are they voting for me? I would then use this to try and decide if it's a town or a mafia push or a mix and base my reads on that, I see none of that from Flubber; moreover it would never cross my mind to unvote someone, I vote people I think are scum and pressure others put on me is irrelevant unless it makes them even scummier, then I would vote for them, what is the town motivation for unvoting there? Other than what Flubber said about causality =/ correlation I don't see it and his reason is unverifiable. I don't need to have played with someone to tell you trying to buy yourself off of a lynch by giving surefire town reads, one of which I know to be true, is scummy.-
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copper223 Jack of All Trades
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copper223 Jack of All Trades
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copper223 Jack of All Trades
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copper223 Jack of All Trades
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In post 144, Boonskiies wrote:In post 143, Dessew wrote:In post 141, Flubbernugget wrote:In post 126, Anatole Kuragin wrote:Flubber, are you conscious of the fact that you seem to be playing differently from the other games we've finished together? Is it deliberate?
Yes I'd rather not lurk through this one.
You haven't really answered the question, though.
He completely answered it. He usually lurks...he's not lurking now. How did he not answer it?
Why are you hard defending a null read?-
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copper223 Jack of All Trades
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copper223 Jack of All Trades
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copper223 Jack of All Trades
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technically he was correct in that Flubber gave an answer, but to feel the need to point that out after Dessew, legitimately in my mind, asks for a more in depth reply, I find questionable. Like why wouldn't you want to hear more from him even if you personally are satisfied, you might get something out of it or at the very least it might help some other town player.-
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copper223 Jack of All Trades
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copper223 Jack of All Trades
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In post 190, FuDuzn wrote:In post 127, copper223 wrote:It's statistically unlikely that all the scum players have been active, so for me one or more are probably in the lurker pool for now. I can see Flubber Swag / Boon , but I don't like associative reads without flips.
Convenient that you say scum is lurking when you have the most posts, are you someone that views lurking as always scummy?
Also, you don't like associative reads yet decide to give them anyways? Also, how can you get an associative read from a lurker?
No, but I always view it as anti-town, there is no convenience in the statement, it was pure statistics and the fact that mafia lurkers seem to be pretty common on this forum, convenient for your read on me that you chose that improbable spin to put on it.
Those are not reads, they are replies to what AK asked about the world being ready for a Flubber/Swag team and me replying with a catuous: I can see that, but I want to focus on my scumread Flubber for now. You can easily get associative reads on a lurker if another player defends him for no apparent reason.-
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copper223 Jack of All Trades
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In post 175, Flubbernugget wrote:I try not to lurk to endgame so I don't have to have a three hour catchup session come lylo.
If this happens to you a lot then you should ask yourself why they always let you live to lylo.
I don't know what to make of the rant, at least you are giving info now.-
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copper223 Jack of All Trades
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You three, Boon, FudZ, and Swag are so full of it.
If Flubber only makes these sort of rants when he is town, and I need for someone else neutral to this argument to verify that before I unvote, then the wagon on him was really useful.
I still find Boon shady as fuck regardless of Flubber's alignment, he first admits Flubber is scummy but goes on to say he usually is and he can't read him so he doesn't want to vote him now, but his read on him progressively becomes more and more towny without Flubber actually doing anything, until the rant where he decides Flubber should fake claim a role because he is so town, like wtf? That helps me a bit with your VI image though, even if you really think he is town, the downside of you being wrong is so huge I would never endorse that kind of play and it's not something I would imagine mafia would say, maybe you're just bad.
I really don't like Swag either for selective quoting, the main reason I was leaning scum on Flubber was his reaction to getting voted for lurking, which is a totally valid reason to vote someone btw, so that when he has to reply you can decide if he is mafia or not. You can agree or disagree with me that giving town reads to everyone on your wagon and unvoting is more or less scum indicative, although frankly you will never convince me it was not scummy, Flubber himself seems to imply it when he said that it was a coincidence that his reads came at the same time as when the wagon formed on him by those players, which implies that if it wasn't coincidence it would have been scummy, but not even mentioning it as Swag does strikes me as disingenuous.
FudZ I have to hear more from but for now he isn't making much sense, the only points I understood about his play was the vote on mykosian and Boon for being opportunistic.
Mykosian's town read has evaporated in the mean time, while AK looks pretty town to me because that read on Swag seems pretty legit.
I have nothing on Nati and I think she should start producing her own content.-
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copper223 Jack of All Trades
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copper223 Jack of All Trades
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In post 241, Flubbernugget wrote:In post 235, copper223 wrote:Flubber do you understand that when you are signing into a game you imply you are going to play to your win conditions? Because I think you don't.
Do you understand that when I tried to forward my wincon people scumread me because I usually suck at forwarding my wincon and there is a whole wagon following this logic? Because I think you don't.
Nope, is this even true? You can maybe argue that for myko and AK, since their read on you seems based on meta but definitely not for me and most likely not for Dessew.
I'd rather make an alt than play under that shitty meta if it's really the case.
Anyway this seems genuine, if I don't get a neutral third party opinion I'll try to meta you myself when I have the time.-
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copper223 Jack of All Trades
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copper223 Jack of All Trades
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copper223 Jack of All Trades
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copper223 Jack of All Trades
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I'm wasting time on your meta Flubber and not getting much, I don't find your play the same from game to game so that read that your wagon is motivated by a meta shift looks kinda shitty to me.
This said Swag is probably mafia with you if you are mafia, especially after that distancing attempt after you both voted nati, who I now believe to be town, and he can also be mafia on his own, I like the buddying read from nati and he has been pretty active in that regard. Also:
- "I can assure you you are not scumhunting gods" (I'm sure you would be able to assure as as mafia).
VOTE: Swag-
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copper223 Jack of All Trades
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copper223 Jack of All Trades
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It's funny cause I feel the same way about you. First you derail the Flubber lynch with a read on swag but then you join it with that meta bs, now you are looking for consensus on me when I try to move the thread along after a freeze, it looks like you are happy with town doing nothing. The only problem I have is it's unlikely you are mafia with the dumb trio or the buddying duo.-
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copper223 Jack of All Trades
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copper223 Jack of All Trades
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@AK
My argument is you are sitting on the sidelines and happy about stalling.
My activity level decreased because I'm now playing 5 games onsite and because I can dedicate more time to MS on weekends.
Like CT, I also found the rant and the follow-up from Flubber more of a town than a mafia thing to do. What I have therefore been doing is taking reasonable ideas from players, like your and Nati's case on Swag and pushing to see what happens, since nobody else seems interested in scumhunting or alternatively is already commited to the idea that Flubber is scum, I'm also trying to figure out why people are scumreading Flubber but not his buddies Swag, FuD and Boon, or vice versa.-
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copper223 Jack of All Trades
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copper223 Jack of All Trades
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copper223 Jack of All Trades
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Dessew let's be real here, do you prefer a no lynch over Flubber and Boon? Because that is where this is going with your unvote. I also think Flubber's later posts are more town than mafia and am willing to switch to boon if it gets us a lynch, I am totally not ok switching if the choice is Flubber or NL, and mister AK in a very heavy handed way has already pushed the lynch towards Flubber.-
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copper223 Jack of All Trades
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copper223 Jack of All Trades
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copper223 Jack of All Trades
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copper223 Jack of All Trades
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copper223 Jack of All Trades
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In post 419, Dessew wrote:
Sorry, I just read this post:In post 386, Boonskiies wrote:I don't believe I was scum reading AK? I have been falling behind in this game lately, and I apologize for that. Been busy in real life.
In post 363, Boonskiies wrote:
I'm inclined to vote Copper over Anatole in that situation. Maybe it's because of my bias towards loving Anatole because of our recent scum win together, and I'm blinded, but I would pick Copper over Anatole.
What is this vote about? Frankly, I didn't even notice reinoe was in this game.
I'd like to hear more from Flubber about Boon, this whole thing just doesn't work out.
It was about doing nothing other than post against an extension, which is so anti town it's almost like your hammer on a PR claim without declaring intent, if Boon flips PR you should be auto-lynched just on general principle.-
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copper223 Jack of All Trades
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copper223 Jack of All Trades
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copper223 Jack of All Trades
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In post 333, Flubbernugget wrote:I trust him with quoting a post after my death that gives no alignment indicative information at all.
So can we knock the I trust Boons bullshit off? You're making it sound like I'm trusting him to hide my drugs from his fbi roommate and thats a really scummy misrep.-
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copper223 Jack of All Trades
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copper223 Jack of All Trades
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copper223 Jack of All Trades
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copper223 Jack of All Trades
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In post 460, Anatole Kuragin wrote:yeah yall can lynch me tomorrow. surely with two scum down even you chuckleheads couldn't fuck this game up.
Is this a GG post?-
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copper223 Jack of All Trades
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copper223 Jack of All Trades
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