Mini 1627: Ninja Mini Mafia

[BlueBloodedToffee]

VOTE: Varsoon

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Mod - I'm V/LA until the 27th

[BlueBloodedToffee]

At least unvote before going V/LA, man.
Rude.

Not worried about a couple of votes are you?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I really don't know how I feel about there being 4 votes on Varsoon already.

VOTE: BlueBloodedToffee

I can finally actually vote you now, BBT!!! No claimed Mason Neighbor to hide behind!!! Haha.

You saying you're scum again here?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Thor, you don't want to run me up this game?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Well, that was an interesting read.

Umm, Allyra was pinging me pretty hard as town. I'm actually sad she is replacing out.

Thor is also scum.

So, yeah, let's lynch Thor.

VOTE: Thor

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Hi Boon.

Thor is scum. Can you vote him please?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Could you tell me your take on Random?

I'd rather have you lynched first.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'd rather have you lynched before I entertain anything else.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Hi Thor,

In our most recent Newbie game you decided to tunnel me all D1 because you 'couldn't read me' and I was 'as good a lynch as any.' You were town that game, so it's understandable if you genuinely cannot read me.

When I noticed you were in this game, I thought to myself 'Here we go, me vs Thor all Day again'. However, that has proven not to be the case. So I ask myself, why does Thor not want to work out my alignment this game? Why has he not proceeded to immediately run me up like thew previous game? Then, I realize, it's because you already know I am town and therefore do not need to engage me.

Discuss.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Pretty sure I'm not.

If I am, you want to correct me?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=59318

Here is the game.

You wanna correct me now?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Post 92 is where you start it.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

@Thor

- I know you like to make big, fluffy posts so I'm going to keep this basic.

The first quote you posted is what I expected you to do this game. Because, you know, you 'can't read me'.

You didn't. The only reason I can discern for why you don't need to try and read me is because you already know my alignment.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

interesting NK that we are not going to talk about

VOTE: varsoon

Indeed, I mean, if Allyra wasn't so painfully town I would be all over you toDay.

VOTE: Orc

Let's tango, bitch.
I think you bussed Thor.

But, really, the remaining scum is probably in Zebulin, Toffee, and Boonskies.

These two quotes contradict each other. Do you have reasons for any of your scum-reads in the second post?

VOTE: Boonskies

He was buddying Thor basically the entire game (I meant to put Thor instead of Randomidget in post 351) and I feel that the vote without a claim was a desperate attempt to gain towncred by voting off a scum player (Boonskies is Mafia Scum so he's played a good amount of games). Either the guy is trolling the entire game, he's playing reckless due to lack of time/care/ITSMOREFUNTHISWAY, or he's scum. I suspect the latter.

There is no way that hammer come from scum!Boon. There was just no need for it.

(Happy Scumday~)

It's actually the Shift Key, Zebu.
VOTE: Boonskies

This is a scum vote.

VOTE: Varsoon

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Yeah, you caught me.

Those reasons for your 'scum-reads' are awful.

I hope you accumulate votes quickly.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

For serious, though, Toffeee, I don't like the hop onto my wagon along with the weird notion that my vote was a scum-vote.
You don't even justify -why- it is, you just call it that.

It just

looks

like a scum-vote. Your overreaction is weird. Why is/was Boon scum?

And that kind of reeks, you know? It sounds A LOT like scum trying to join what seems an easy wagon (sure was D1, sure is now) with flimsy justification and LOTS of conviction.
It looks like you're leaping at the first chance for a 'justified' mislynch.
Like, you ask me questions, but without any answers to them, you vote me based off of a 'scum vote' which really isn't. You just said it was.

I mean, I'm not sure why you think you're an easy lynch. I certainly didn't feel that way when I voted you.

You sheeped Thor (known scum) early and never justified it.

You're gonna have to show me where I sheeped Thor. Because I think this is a flat out lie.

You have awkward and comrade-reeking conversation with Thor in D1.
You never justify why you're on the Thor wagon. You just, very seriously, say that he is scum. This reeks of a bus. Unlike in Allya's case where there looks to be some very serious walling and detailed frustration, you just call the slot scum and very later on you start to conjure (flimsy) meta observations on his this doesn't seem to be town Thor. Essentially, your observations don't match your conviction--which aligns with the mislynch you're pushing on me. You just don't seem very genuine anywhere.

You're gonna have to elaborate on the 'awkward' conversation, because I just don't see it.

I quite clearly said why I was on the Thor wagon. I can only assume you're not reading.

Outside of this push on Thor, your only other read is a town read on Allya, which is a really popular and safe read to have.
You've coasted entirely outside of this poor and awkward interaction with Thor and the poor and awkward vote on my today.

I see. So I have to state all my reads and whee I'm at for you to town-read me? Nah, I'll pass. I'll state my reads as and when I want to.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

P-EDIT:
See? You're just insisting that it looks like a scum vote after I already articulated my reasons for voting there. Boon needed (and needs) pressure.
You're not seeing how I'm an easy lynch? The first biggest wagon of D1 and someone being railed early D2 by a slot that's a mass town read?
You were the second vote on my wagon in RVS--after Thor, even after Thor was called out on his shit. You never talked about or justified that vote.
Check your ISO, buddy. You openly ask him why he's not running you up (awkward) and then just vote him insisting he's scum BEFORE giving any interaction or rationale.
I don't want you to state all your reads, I just think you'd have more than 'OBVIOUS SCUM IS OBVIOUS' and 'PERSON MOST PEOPLE ARE TOWNREADING IS TOWN' for all of D1.

I genuinely can't tell if you're trolling me or not.

That is a poor reason to vote someone. What is that supposed to achieve?

Just because you had a wagon on D1 that doesn't make you an easy lynch. In fact, it might make you a harder lynch given the fact you survived it.

Are you saying I sheeped with my RVS vote...you have to be trolling me.

I thought my motivations for that exchange with Thor were quite open and clear to see.

I do have more. I think you're scum and I think Boon is town. Gam could be scum as well.

What do you think about that?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

OK. I'm done with this now.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Gam

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Thanks for the coaching.

I'm happy with my vote right now though.

Reasoning might come later if I can be bothered.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

UNVOTE:

Need to read through a few things.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Alright, so I'm going to read and post my thoughts per page as I go. If I ask a question that gets answered later just ignore the question, I'm going to be transparent with my thinking so everyone gets the information (and general information is better for town than scum).

Page 6:

Thor and Allyra are arguing a lot. They're answering each other's points correctly. Not much.

Page 7:

VOTE: Allyra

You're not answering a lot of Thor's questions, hoping they'll go away. (Mostly in post 153.) You say

Good description of my scum motive.

Oh that's okay you're scum. I'm not interested in Continuing a wall off with you. Those are wholly unproductive, clutter up the game, and you do nothing but harp on semantic bullshit most of the time regardless of your alignment.

But I think that boonskies actually voted me because I'm voting you. He did not once comment about that vote and changed his reasoning for thinking I'm scum too often. I do not think someone thinks I'm scum for having a town read. I do not think that you, as town, ignores that in favor of getting after me for missing a couple posts.

So, I'm not interested in causing a distraction with you. I fully expect o get lynched here because no one knows me and I know how much you tunnel and harangue about being sheeped.

My job is not to entertain some silly debate with you, my job is to show everyone why you're scum, which I will do until in dead.

This basically amounts to "Debating you is pointless, I will try to get you lynched until I die." This is TERRIBLE. Why would you do this? Debating gives town info, info gives town viable scumreads, viable scumreads kill scum and make us all happy. I gt it if you don't want to spend your time arguing with Thor (most people don't), but I wouldn't recommend replacing into a game with him in it if you were so dreading that so much. Just tellig someone to stop arguing is a HUGE scum move.

Town: varsoon, CIA long, drake crusader

Scum: Thor, boonskies (potentially konowa)

Town: varsoon, CIA long, drake crusader, randommidget

Scum: Thor, boonskies (potentially konowa)

Here you randomly give randomidget a townread when you didn't give him one two posts ago and explain nothing. Again, why would you do this?

The rest of your logic this page assumes Thor is scum, which for the 10 players who are town is completely unknown.

Page 8:

Konowa seems really town as he explains himself to Allyra. Allyra is town on this page, but doesn't make up for page 7. Randomidget doesn't explain his vote very well, hopefully he does on the later pages. Most posts here are 1-line and Konowa just telling Allyra why he's not scum.


I'll read and post my thoughts on the rest tomorrow!

Nah, he's not scum anymore.

Now what?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Yeah, currently re-reading the game.

I'm not sure what's funny.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I agree, I should.

Sometimes I do impulsive things that look silly.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Alright, so I'm going to read and post my thoughts per page as I go. If I ask a question that gets answered later just ignore the question, I'm going to be transparent with my thinking so everyone gets the information (and general information is better for town than scum).

Page 6:

Thor and Allyra are arguing a lot. They're answering each other's points correctly. Not much.

Page 7:

VOTE: Allyra

You're not answering a lot of Thor's questions, hoping they'll go away. (Mostly in post 153.) You say

Good description of my scum motive.

Oh that's okay you're scum. I'm not interested in Continuing a wall off with you. Those are wholly unproductive, clutter up the game, and you do nothing but harp on semantic bullshit most of the time regardless of your alignment.

But I think that boonskies actually voted me because I'm voting you. He did not once comment about that vote and changed his reasoning for thinking I'm scum too often. I do not think someone thinks I'm scum for having a town read. I do not think that you, as town, ignores that in favor of getting after me for missing a couple posts.

So, I'm not interested in causing a distraction with you. I fully expect o get lynched here because no one knows me and I know how much you tunnel and harangue about being sheeped.

My job is not to entertain some silly debate with you, my job is to show everyone why you're scum, which I will do until in dead.

This basically amounts to "Debating you is pointless, I will try to get you lynched until I die." This is TERRIBLE. Why would you do this? Debating gives town info, info gives town viable scumreads, viable scumreads kill scum and make us all happy. I gt it if you don't want to spend your time arguing with Thor (most people don't), but I wouldn't recommend replacing into a game with him in it if you were so dreading that so much. Just tellig someone to stop arguing is a HUGE scum move.

Town: varsoon, CIA long, drake crusader

Scum: Thor, boonskies (potentially konowa)

Town: varsoon, CIA long, drake crusader, randommidget

Scum: Thor, boonskies (potentially konowa)

Here you randomly give randomidget a townread when you didn't give him one two posts ago and explain nothing. Again, why would you do this?

The rest of your logic this page assumes Thor is scum, which for the 10 players who are town is completely unknown.

Page 8:

Konowa seems really town as he explains himself to Allyra. Allyra is town on this page, but doesn't make up for page 7. Randomidget doesn't explain his vote very well, hopefully he does on the later pages. Most posts here are 1-line and Konowa just telling Allyra why he's not scum.


I'll read and post my thoughts on the rest tomorrow!

I'll do this pretty quickly without much articulation, but:

I'm not going to claim regardless, so if you all want a mislynch on me, I suggest doing it while I'm teaching and not around today.

Yeah, doing a fakeclaim super early on Day 1 is tough because it locks you in if you manage to survive.
So, basically you're just claiming scum. Got it.

This was scummy as shit and I missed it. Glad Acryon pointed it out.

I am unsure why I need to defend the premise of Boon's case on you as "sound". I never claimed it was "sound" I claimed it was "fine". There are lots of things peole do that are "fine" to me that I don't agree with on an actual scumhunting scale - I only get tetchy when I consider something anti-town. I also think it would be more important for you to justify the weird word twist dance you're trying to move on him wherein you expect me to buy that when he said 'big wagons' he couldn't possibly mean 'the current biggest wagon whether or not it is small in the grand scope of the game of mafia' and also, by saying 'big wagons' and being factually wrong on 50% of it that it magically makes him scum...because, y'know, as town he'd fact check better. Maybe do that?

Boon's case wasn't "fine" though, it was pretty bad.

My response to the case so far is - I still don't see the scum case.

She also wilted under pressure like an utter boss there.
Meh.

Unvote: Allyra
Vote: Randommidget

There was a bit of a case in Allyra's post, and even if there wasn't, he didn't even attempt to respond to several legit points Allyra made. He just said "lol, whatever" and ignored it. He did this a lot with Orc too, and then tried to spin things like Orc was dodging him on his "why?" question even though Orc was completely right that Thor didn't ask the question he claimed he asked. Then the whole "you're scum cause you said daytime qt" thing was reaching at best.

Sigh, making a case against a dead man isn't as fun. =/

Acryon

It's hard to say, I could easily see it as both. Regardless, I think the lack of scum hunting is enough to call his intro post into question whether it's false bravado or not.

So, I've been thinking.

I think the wagon on Thor was probably all-town.

If it was, that only leaves (in my mind) Gam, Goblin, Varsoon (probably town), Drake and Konowa to find the remaining scum. I assume we're looking for two more.

If it wasn't an all-town wagon, I feel most likely scum on the wagon is in Xiao/Acryon. Though Acryon's progression from being on Thor side of Thor vs Allyra to voting Thor feels genuine to me. So, more likely Xiao.

It's hard to find other scum because Thor done a great job of making sure pretty much all of D1 was taken up with him vs Allyra/orcinus.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Alright, so I'm going to read and post my thoughts per page as I go. If I ask a question that gets answered later just ignore the question, I'm going to be transparent with my thinking so everyone gets the information (and general information is better for town than scum).

Page 6:

Thor and Allyra are arguing a lot. They're answering each other's points correctly. Not much.

Page 7:

VOTE: Allyra

You're not answering a lot of Thor's questions, hoping they'll go away. (Mostly in post 153.) You say

Good description of my scum motive.

Oh that's okay you're scum. I'm not interested in Continuing a wall off with you. Those are wholly unproductive, clutter up the game, and you do nothing but harp on semantic bullshit most of the time regardless of your alignment.

But I think that boonskies actually voted me because I'm voting you. He did not once comment about that vote and changed his reasoning for thinking I'm scum too often. I do not think someone thinks I'm scum for having a town read. I do not think that you, as town, ignores that in favor of getting after me for missing a couple posts.

So, I'm not interested in causing a distraction with you. I fully expect o get lynched here because no one knows me and I know how much you tunnel and harangue about being sheeped.

My job is not to entertain some silly debate with you, my job is to show everyone why you're scum, which I will do until in dead.

This basically amounts to "Debating you is pointless, I will try to get you lynched until I die." This is TERRIBLE. Why would you do this? Debating gives town info, info gives town viable scumreads, viable scumreads kill scum and make us all happy. I gt it if you don't want to spend your time arguing with Thor (most people don't), but I wouldn't recommend replacing into a game with him in it if you were so dreading that so much. Just tellig someone to stop arguing is a HUGE scum move.

Town: varsoon, CIA long, drake crusader

Scum: Thor, boonskies (potentially konowa)

Town: varsoon, CIA long, drake crusader, randommidget

Scum: Thor, boonskies (potentially konowa)

Here you randomly give randomidget a townread when you didn't give him one two posts ago and explain nothing. Again, why would you do this?

The rest of your logic this page assumes Thor is scum, which for the 10 players who are town is completely unknown.

Page 8:

Konowa seems really town as he explains himself to Allyra. Allyra is town on this page, but doesn't make up for page 7. Randomidget doesn't explain his vote very well, hopefully he does on the later pages. Most posts here are 1-line and Konowa just telling Allyra why he's not scum.


I'll read and post my thoughts on the rest tomorrow!

I'll do this pretty quickly without much articulation, but:

I'm not going to claim regardless, so if you all want a mislynch on me, I suggest doing it while I'm teaching and not around today.

Yeah, doing a fakeclaim super early on Day 1 is tough because it locks you in if you manage to survive.
So, basically you're just claiming scum. Got it.

This was scummy as shit and I missed it. Glad Acryon pointed it out.

I am unsure why I need to defend the premise of Boon's case on you as "sound". I never claimed it was "sound" I claimed it was "fine". There are lots of things peole do that are "fine" to me that I don't agree with on an actual scumhunting scale - I only get tetchy when I consider something anti-town. I also think it would be more important for you to justify the weird word twist dance you're trying to move on him wherein you expect me to buy that when he said 'big wagons' he couldn't possibly mean 'the current biggest wagon whether or not it is small in the grand scope of the game of mafia' and also, by saying 'big wagons' and being factually wrong on 50% of it that it magically makes him scum...because, y'know, as town he'd fact check better. Maybe do that?

Boon's case wasn't "fine" though, it was pretty bad.

My response to the case so far is - I still don't see the scum case.

She also wilted under pressure like an utter boss there.
Meh.

Unvote: Allyra
Vote: Randommidget

There was a bit of a case in Allyra's post, and even if there wasn't, he didn't even attempt to respond to several legit points Allyra made. He just said "lol, whatever" and ignored it. He did this a lot with Orc too, and then tried to spin things like Orc was dodging him on his "why?" question even though Orc was completely right that Thor didn't ask the question he claimed he asked. Then the whole "you're scum cause you said daytime qt" thing was reaching at best.

Sigh, making a case against a dead man isn't as fun. =/

Acryon

It's hard to say, I could easily see it as both. Regardless, I think the lack of scum hunting is enough to call his intro post into question whether it's false bravado or not.

Ah shit, forgot I quoted them.

Can you delete both those quotes please Mod.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

LOL wtf is going on?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

So the reason for quoting those posts are as follows;

The rest of your logic this page assumes Thor is scum, which for the 10 players who are town is completely unknown.

I don't know whether the '10 town' comment is a slip or not? I mean, it's OK to assume we're playing against 3 scum sure, but that seems like a certain statement and I'm not sure I like it.

I don't like Xiao's 404 either because I don't know why he is presenting a case on someone who has already been lynched? Is this like some weird way of grasping town-cred given you know Thor is flipping scum?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

This is an interesting chain of comments.

Reads?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

It's not like he was like "oh hey, he's already dead, let me throw out a case no one asked for to gain some town-cred." He had said he was gathering stuff before the lynch was certain, and then was prodded for the information after the hammer, so he provided it.

My bad, didn't see Boon asking for the info.

What are your thoughts on the Thor wagon?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Just to clarify;

Mod - Can you delete both quotes in posts 504 and 505 please.

Posts are not allowed to be edited under any circumstances.

Unless I'm editing yours to say a thing. That's fine.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I like that thinking.

I had exactly the same thoughts on Zeb which was why I didn't mention him (would still like him to address that 'slip' though).

I feel that Konowa is most likely scum right now.

There was a point where a wagon was forming on Thor, I think Random voted him (Thor), and Konowa proceeded to vote for Allyra as if trying to start a counter-wagon. The timing of the vote didn't sit right with me.

I'm on the iPad right now which is a pain for quoting but will try to find it.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

VOTE: thor
I'm liking allyra's attack on him. Thor, what are your reads on people apart from allyra and boonskies
Also, why do people keep spelling my name with a double m?
@konowa, please give reads on allyra, Thor, boonskies, and varsoon

What you're trying to describe in #175, could be -possibly- used to say someone was Scum if that someone was active lurking or something ridiculous like that. If that was the case, I wouldn't have any issue with what you are saying. However, you are saying my motivation is false before I have done -anything-.

I'm going to go read now.

Vote: Allyra

Votes in the post right after

before

going to read the game.

Doesn't feel right to me.

VOTE: Konowa

[BlueBloodedToffee]

As for the 10 town: I know this isn't a role madness game, and I can't think of a setup with 4 or 2 scum that's balanced at this point (with at least 1 mafia goon and 2 vanilla townies). Us assuming there's 3 scum for when to play in lylo and taking the chance we're wrong is better imo than not knowing/paying attention to that part of the game.

That's reads-list seems somewhat...familiar?

Also, at the time you made that post about '10 town players' you did not know we had a mafia goon and 2 VT's. So using reasons that happened after you made that post to justify it just isn't going to cut it I'm afraid.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Who is scum on the wagon Varsoon?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Konowa.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Because Konowa started a counter-wagon to Thor.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Oh, and if Thor flips Scum BBT is likely Town as well.

Stringin' em up?

But I guess I can see what you mean.

I don't know what you're inferring with this post so I'm just going to pretend I didn't read it.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I have voted.

But it's a bad vote.

There is just no way scum!Boon hammers scum Thor like that. I just don't see it.

Let's get a Konowa wagon going.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I pushed Allyra hard. The ragequit was such obvtown though so it's weird you think orcinus is Scum.

Vote: Varsoon

Starting a counter-wagon to himself?

Fantastic. Just fantastic.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I don't agree with there being no way he did that, and I'd rather leave it where it is until we can actually hear something else from Boon.

Scum motivation for doing it?

I mean, if Boon is scum, he is pretty bad. Like, the 'town-cred' he gets for hammering scum does not outweigh the advantages to having a 3-man scum-team alive with Thor in it IMO.

It just seems an awful move for scum to make.

PEdit - Who is scum on the Thor wagon Varsoon?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Yeah, we need prods on Gam, goblin, and Drake.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Wow, that's L1.

The speed of this wagon.

Must be on town. Has to be.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'm serious.

The speed of this wagon in addition to the little resistance against it makes me think even more that Boon is town.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

VOTE: Acryon

And this guy is just sheeping and sprouting obvious fluff, and is policy lynching, not scum reading me.

Boon, Acryon is probably town.

Vote Konowa please.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

@Acryon

Notes

:

• Prods go out two days after day starts.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

@Boon - Look at his D1 progression surrounding the Thor vs Allyra discussion. It reads insanely genuine and shows he is not afraid to re-evaluate his reads.

He was defending Thor. It would have been easy for him to continue doing so as scum.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

That might be one of the worst reads-lists I have ever seen.

Well done. Good effort.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I mean, that's great and all, but, how about you vote Konowa now?

PEdit - No because it's full of nulls

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Oh shit, I'm scum now?

That was a quick development.

How did I go from null to scum?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Konowa is scummier than Varsoon, no?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Is that L-1 for Konowa?

I really don't like that vote from Drake.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Want to center my focus on getting goblin to talk and to see what konowa thinks of this game so far.

why is that your center of attention?

to clarify, you want to see what konowa thinks of goblin's game so far?

Center of game is to catch scum.
I am a quiet monk who lives on hillside.
Konowa is scummy as can be with this shifty play.

VOTE: Konowa

You're gonna have to elaborate on this vote for me.

Why do you think Konowa is scum?

Huh.

BlueBloodedToffee's become very town.

Why have I become very town?

Your reads are looking like sheeps off of other people's reads and I don't like it.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

VC please Mod

I think the Konowa wagon is myself, Varsoon, Boon, Gam and Drake.

If there is scum on that wagon, Konowa, who is it?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

OK, well I don't understand people scum-reading Boon so I'm just gonna move past that one.

Drake I could see though.

Waiting for him to expand on that vote myself.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Because he was responding seriously to an obvious joke. = =

I don't see how it was an 'obvious' joke.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I mean, if you can show me how I was supposed to infer that was a joke, then I would believe you.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Not if we lynch scum, no.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

The only vote I question on the wagon is Drakes.

I am awaiting his response.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Really, dude? Even in your response you note that it was a fast development when the only thing you did was say you didn't like my reads list (although you were a fucking douchebag about it, I don't tend to hold shit like that against players). It's not my fault you missed the joke while being an asshole. That's your own fault. Can we go back to the game, now?

I don't think I was? Unless you're suggesting that you're perfectly happy with the information presented in your reads-list?

I just thought it was kind of a pointless post when you could have just said 'Acryon is town, Orc is probably town and everyone else is null'. Although, that would look kind of scummy, what with you having barely any reads. I guess if you're scum, you would want to fluff it up a bit to make it look a little townier?

OK, I think I understand the motivation behind your reads-list now.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Do you disagree with what I said?

@Acryon - I don't understand where your town-read on Xiao has come from. Can you explain it please?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

No, we're talking about the game.

You disagree with my comment about your reads-list.

Please tell me what your reads-list achieved, what was it's purpose?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Thanks Acryon.

It's a real question, I am not trying to antagonise you.

I mean, if you had significant reads in it with good information I would not question it at all. As it was, your reads-list was just so...empty?

I look for the motivation in that post and on the surface, yeah it looks like a townie post because you're willing to provide reads without being prompted, but when you look a little deeper, there is just 'nothing' there.

It's a townie post on the surface. I'm trying to figure out if it 'looking like a townie post' was the motivation behind posting it.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

PEdit - No because it's full of nulls

I started to go into it here.

Why would I tell you exactly what I'm looking for in your posts?

Do you not think that would allow you to just answer my questions/posts accordingly?

PEdit - UNVOTE:

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Acryon you're ninja'ing the fuck out of me right now.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

You didn't post a question. You didn't post anything but "lol shitty post. Nice job, bro." Is there any way I'm supposed to respond to such an antagonizing post than to say "fuck you"? You didn't call out my reads list in a "scum hunting" way. Nothing in your response post was in any way, shape or form related to saying whether my list was scum or town. It was only after the fact that you started trying to justify it and say that's why you posted 660, which is scummy as shit in and of itself.

You're right. I simply posted something that I knew you would respond to. I was interested in engaging with you without making it known what I was looking for.

You didn't react in an antagonistic manner the first time around either. You only became aggressive when I further pushed you for why you posted such a bad post.

Ah, so the first time around when you called me scum, that was a joke.

Am I to assume that this is also a joke? Because this is the second time you're accusing me of being scum for disliking your reads-list.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Bullshit.

Lol. OK?

I actually responded pretty passive aggressively.
Given your complete incompetence at understanding posts, I'm not surprised you missed that.

No, you didn't. Don't you remember, you were joking. Right?

Yeah, cause THAT'S why I'm saying you're being scummy. Get fucking real, dude.

OK, you're clearly going to make this difficult.

Why are you calling me scum? Because, you called me scum for disliking your reads-list and then you said my disliking of your reads-list in post 660 was scummy. So that's twice.

But, you're not calling me scum for that. So, what are you calling me scum for?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Ah, I see. So you went from passive-aggressive to joking in the space of a couple of minutes?

I have quite clearly explained why I posted what I posted and what I was looking for.

VOTE: Xiao

Not really happy with your reaction to my questioning and cannot for the life of me see why you needed to post a reads-list telling us you had no reads.

I have given reasons behind why I think your post was bad and what I think were the real intentions behind that post.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Wow, that was never my intention to make you feel like that and now you've actually annoyed me.

I have explained everything that I did. I don't know why you're creating a huge drama.

On a game-related note; townies never self-vote and I can't help but feel this is a ploy after Acryon's recent comment regarding stepping away from the game.

@Acryon - it's really unnerving me the way you're speaking to Xiao. It's like you

know

he is *town*.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I don't think I have said anything out of line.

Xiao just completed melted under a little questioning.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I guess I understand the timing of my vote on Allyra combined with Thor's flip might indicate that I am Scum with Thor but that doesn't take into account the dialogue I had with Allyra where it should be clear that I was trying to figure out her alignment and that I would probably ignore Thor altogether if I was Scum with him, wifom but whatever.

Yeah, it's the timing of the vote and voting before you actually went to read the game. Plus, I don't feel like you have done any scum-hunting at all, though this would tie in with your feeling disconnected from the game so meh.

Lynch Goblin.

VOTE: Goblin

Low hanging fruit and all that.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Alright, so, back to where I started the Day.

Not really sure what to make of Varsoon so willingly sheeping Orc yet, was certainly interesting.

Orc, do you genuinely believe Gam could be scum?

VOTE: Konowa

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Hmm, I have a light town-read on Gam so I certainly wouldn't like to see that lynch toDay.

Varsoon is scum because he sheeped you? Is there anything else to it?

What do you think about the Drake slot?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Well, I'm thinking that Drake could be scum.

What do you think about that?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Hmm, you might be right about Konowa being town.

VOTE: Varsoon

OK. Let's see where this goes.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

There are so many things I find wrong with those posts.

Will get around to it when I have some more time.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

OK, this accusation of me sheeping Thor is ridiculous. Since when is an RVS vote sheeping? Seriously.

I also still maintain that scum!Boon does not hammer Thor like that. Coincidentally, if Boon does turn out to be scum I'll forever policy lynch him in any game we're in.

Why are you assuming the Thor wagon was all town? How often do you see no scum on a successful lynch?

You are the second person to lay out the theory that scum was not on the wagon. I don’t like this. Saying that scum wouldn’t have been able to get on to vote totally ignores the possibility that scum were among those who voted

Twice you state you're unhappy with people thinking that it's unlikely scum were on the Thor wagon. IMO, if scum were not on the wagon they would most definitely be pushing to say that scum were on the wagon. The lynch pool for scum becomes worryingly small if we assume Thor was an all-town wagon.

Fish, do you think both scum(?) bussed?

Could you sum your read up on Acryon in a sentence or two please. I mean, that's an awful lot of fluff to say someone is null.

Same for Boon.

Your notes on Varsoon are worringly thin given the amount of posts he has. Like, you don't even explain why he is in your town-reads. Can you do that for me?

Xiao- nothing from you has stood out one way or the other

Nothing stood out to you from Xiao except one post...and he becomes like your top town-read? I don't get it. Your reads are beginning to look awfully convenient to me.

Town: Xiao, Varsoon, Orc,
Null: Drake, Acr, BBT
Scum/Can Die In a Fire And I Would Sleep Soundly: Konowa, Boonskiies, Zeb, Gams

I mean, with the exception of Varsoon, your scum-reads can just be explained as 'Most likely people to get lynched toDay'.

You haven't explained any of your reads. That big ass post is basically a commentary of what's happened in the game with very little actual analysis and a couple of questions thrown in.

UNVOTE:

Good shit, Formerfish.

Is there anything in particular you really liked?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Fish, describe the process by which you wrote #800

I think you have thought/noticed the same thing as me when I was reading his 800 as well.

I was hoping he would state it in our interactions without me having to directly ask him about it.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Yes, I even said that someone was the second to make mention of it. And you could make the same argument for scum on the wagon, it would behoove them to make a case for scum being off it. This point is actually pretty weak of you to make because it assumes evidence that we don’t have with conclusions based on that absent evidence.

Yeah, I can see what you're saying here. I guess it's more from my POV as I feel confident in a lot of town-reads on the Thor wagon.

Thor665 (7): orcinus_theoriginal, randomidget, BlueBloodedToffee, Zebulin, Xiao Long, acryon, Boonskiies

Orc is town because of Orc Vs Thor, Random conf town, I'm town, Zeb is town because he chose to vote Thor when the two leading wagons were at L-4(?), Xiao is the one I am least confident on but his shit-fit he threw kinda makes me want to think he is town, Acryon's read progression from being on Thor side of Thor vs Orc to eventually voting Thor feels genuine and, well, we've been over Boon.

So, for me, that leaves both(?) scum off the wagon. At least for now.

He then pops back up during your face off with Xiao to play referee. So yeah, null read there.

Is this somehow alignment indicative for you?

Your notes on Varsoon are worringly thin given the amount of posts he has. Like, you don't even explain why he is in your town-reads. Can you do that for me?

My experience with Varsoon comes from Touhou, where we were both town. I feel like reading his posts this game that I see the exact same thing I did that game. If it makes a difference, he was even getting scum reads in that game for his play. Mostly I would say that this is a strong gut read.
I have even less on Gams and he is one of my top scum reads, why don’t you take issue with the skeletal notes on him?

Because Gam hasn't posted anywhere near as much as Varsoon, so naturally, there is more to say about Varsoon than there is Gam.

Konowa I explained, Boonskiies I explained. Zeb and Gams I didn’t explain to much, mostly because there isn’t much to use for an explanation. And I don’t give a fuck what you think about my reads list. You however seem to really care about others since this is the second one you have basically called shit. Too many null reads, no good. Definite reads, no good.

I didn't say your reads-list was shit. I said they were convenient reads that, I would say, line up well with the general feel of the game so far. There isn't much 'going against the grain' for you to be called out on.

Can you elaborate on your Zeb scum-read?

You don’t get to not answer questions either:
Why do you assume that the Thor wagon was all town?
Do you see many all town lynches?
Have you ever seen a townie self vote?

See above.
I have seen them, yes. In fact, in a recent game, if I had believed the VCA which pointed to a 6 player all town wagon, we would have lynched scum instead of town in LyLo.
Yes, I have.

Except that's not what you did, was it? You called a post shitty, then only later on when I got became noticeably annoyed by it did you try to justify it as scum hunting when in reality your post had no question and served no purpose than to insult.

You continuing to ignore what I was saying and try to bullshit spin it into something completely different than what I said made me lose any and all desire to continue the game.
Coming back to it now, it still pisses me off, but instead of voting myself, I'll just vote you for the incredibly scummy play that I was too annoyed to properly address.

VOTE: BBT

My vote's probably staying here the rest of the day unless someone somehow becomes scummier than you.

I have explained why I did what I did. If you don't believe me, I quite frankly couldn't give a shit. I'll refrain from interacting with you because I don't want to make you cry.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

although you were a fucking douchebag about it

It's not my fault you missed the joke while being an asshole.

I take issue with you being an asshole.

Fuck you.

Given your complete incompetence at understanding posts,

You're just an idiot.

He's either just an idiot or he's an idiot AND scum. Really hard to give a shit which it is right now.

Yeah, you go report me

Fucking clown.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I won't be modkilled.

I haven't done anything.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

UNVOTE:

Good shit, Formerfish.

Is there anything in particular you really liked?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

@BBT: Nuanced reading of the game, critical of self and reads, is putting in an effort that's pinging town to me--asks questions, isn't totally sure of self, is willing to take risks. I dunno, man, I dig it. If it was scum, he could've easily joined any of the large wagons. But not here. So yeah dawg.

I didn't see all that much analysis.

Effort isn't indicative of alignment.

How is 'isn't sure of self' and 'willing to take risks' alignment indicative? In fact, how is he willing to take risks?

Join the large wagons? You mean join the biggest wagon, like say, Konowa?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Sorry for incoming wall. Y'all are so active!

BBT, I'll respond to that last wall in a minute. I just strolled through your iso and noticed an absence of something. You admit to disliking Xiaos reads list because you think it's empty, and you don't like mine because it seems safe and pretty vanilla. So why don't you go ahead and give us your reads stud, I'd love to see how a real Mafia player creates a reads list.

Nah, you're gonna have to wait.

I don't know if I somehow missed it, but did you respond to me?

I'm totes cool with him being on the Konowa wagon, because it's my top scum wagon.
Toot toot.

We're just not connectin' and seeing the same things, BBT.

I realize. And I wonder if it's because we're not on the same side?

Also, jesus, BBT, way to ignore my whole case.
How anyone could see that and not vote Konowa is beyond me.
It is LITERALLY spelled out for you.

Your 'case' is awful. Do you have anything else?

I don't think I'm on any wagon. And the more I think about it the more I want Boon to swing. That hammer was just megabad, like Sharknado without the campy goodness. Every game I've seen Boon play he has this loveable idiot act going on and he eventually says something along the lines of, "Well if I were scum, do you really think I'd do that?" and "Well if you guys lynch me then look at the people pushing me as scum, cause that's where the scum really is!" I just can't let this go on. Call it a policy lynch if you must, but if it walks like a scumbag, talks like a scumbag and plays like a scumbag, there's a good chance they are a scumbag.

Vote Boon

Varsoon, remember when you said something about scum jumping on the easiest wagons? What's your opinion on Fish jumping on the Boon wagon?

Dude literally posted over 1000 words of analysis on each player.
Doesn't matter--contributed effort allows for players to be more clearly read and lets the game move forward. It's pro-town even if it isn't alignment indicative.
Scum have information. Town have to find it out. He's willing to take risks by forming his own reads rather than YOLO-swaggin' into the game. The fact he's scumreading several players but not all of them feels genuine.
He hasn't even cast a vote as far as I am aware other than on Boon (and he explained this one fairly well)--in fact, he's voiced hesitance about joining the Konowa wagon.

BBT, I'm starting to wonder if you throwing flame like in the bolded is you just being incapable of reading the game or you literally being this bad at playing scum.
Either way, you've either got a terrible grasp on the game or you're really transparent when you're misrepping.
:l


Move BBT back up the list.
I'd be cool with a BBT, Boonskies, or Konowa lynch.

No, 'words' do not equal analysis. It was a running commentary on what had happened in the game with

very little

actual analysis. Of course it matters, you just tried to town-read him because of the effort he is putting in. Which is a ridiculous reason to town-read someone.

Hey, maybe we should lynch the players with the least posts and make our way up the list day by day? I'm sure we'll catch scum that way because there is no way they put as much effort into the game as town and therefore will have less posts. Or should we do it by word count? Tough choice. /sarcasm.

I'm now reading the hesitance to hammer boon as scum not wanting to lose another to a lynch rather than town backing off a town mislynch.
Scum would've hammered that shit so hard.

I don't follow.

BBT is a much stronger town player than scum player

, so that is a possibility, I just can't actually tell quite yet. (When he's town it actually takes some time to realize he knows what he's saying.)

I had a game where he was a confirmed mason, and I still thought he was scum...I was scum that game. So yeah, he knows what he's saying as town, even if he comes off as incompetent.

Bold genuinely made me laugh. Thanks.

Why would you be killing Zebulin?

VOTE: Boonskiies


I have a TOTALLY 100% SCUMCLAIM FROM KONOWA
and I'm willing to chase this instead.

Because you're scum? Opportunistic vote change.

I always do totally random/make people question their town reads kills as scum. Anyways, I'm getting kind of irritated and done with this game, especially because I'm not important at all in this game, so Imma join the wagon.

VOTE: Boonskiies

Boon, I don't know wtf you're doing but can you stop now? Thanks.

Alright, I'm 100% on ScumSkies now. I don't think that a player would replace out of a game due to a bus that she herself started, I disagree with Boonkies' townread of me's reason (effort is not indicative of alignment. You're totally on about how involved I am in this game), the fact that he's sheeping Varsoon way too easily, the fact he voted Orc less then a page after calling him town, the opinion that Thor/Orc scumteam is more likely then Thor/BBT (Allyra REPLACED OUT, you normally don't do that when bussing a scumbuddy because you know the outrage that your buddy is showing is fake), and everything everyone else has said.

Really? So, you think Boon is scum for this theory but not Varsoon? I mean, I think Varsoon pretty much started the day saying Orc Vs Thor was scum theatre so I'm interested in why you are focusing on Boon for this.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

OK, I don't feel like posting a reads-list yet.

Now what?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Because I want to keep my reads close to my chest right now.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I guess we do.

VOTE: Fish

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Well that escalated pretty quickly. I fail to see any reasoning (actual reasoning, you know not the bullshit buzz words you're slinging in my direction). And find it quite funny that you vote me when I refuse to answer your line of question when you are in turn refusing to out your reads, which is pretty anti town when you think about the denial of information. Its especially bothersome that the info you refuse to provide is something you've made more than one observation about when done by others. Personally, I'm am waiting with bated breath to see what this mastery of reads list must look like. I imagine a font like none I've seen before, and composition that would make 14th century French poets weep with envy.

Vote BBT

Let's fucking do this.

Well, I mean, you can clearly see I disliked your entry post for one. Then, you proceeded to completely stop the discussion we were having. I fail to see the town motivation in that.

It's good to see that OMGUS is still a thing as well. Votes should be piling on Fish now, that would be great.

Alright now that another game is over, maybe I'll actually be able to focus on this clusterfuck.

That's good because I'm beginning to think you're town.

Clearly Several pages later and he still isn't lynched. Konowa self voted = scum. As stated earlier he even said he was scum. = scum
He bullies people = scum. His posts and plays shows that he was afk when pressure on him was applied and now he is back as the wagon is forming again on BBT
Boon once again has me on edge. I have my reads almost finished. Just gotta work on Former and Varsoon.

Silll believe my vote on konowa is pure ( since he is scum.)

LOL what? Would happily, HAPPILY, lynch this guy right now.

i have a townread on BBT because refusal to give out reads list is something i do and i don't know if he's trying to manipulate me, and i think his interactions with thor seem pretty townish, and i think the only thing that bugs me about BBT is all the while i'm hard defending him he hasn't said a word to/about me and that's kinda weird

I believe we spoke earlier in the day. I'm pretty sure you're town and you seem set on lynching Varsoon today. I'm not sure that's what I want to do and am therefore pursuing other avenues. It would be just fantastic if you could vote Fish.

I do find it a bit scummy to shit on everyone's reads and to then turn around and refuse to give your own. Especially I'm the way that he did it. Calling mine pedestrian but refusing to devulge his advantgaud reads in the same breath basically.

Added to all the shit hea been saying towards me = a scum read. I'd say Boon BBT team for the win.

So, this is you admitting you're voting me because I voted you, right?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Well, if you ignore everything else I've said, squint real hard and then shove your head up your own ass I could see how scum would come to that conclusion.

But no. I won't admit to that because its not true and its a blatant attempt to discredit me, you know that bullshit tactic you've been trying against me since I came into the game.

So do you consider every return vote to be OMGUS? Cause I usually think of naked, knee jerk reactionary votes as OMGUS, but votes that come after an a) attempt to dance with the pretty bitch only to be turned away like the start of every 80's teen movie, b) an attempt to show scum motivation, and c) alarming feeling of deja vu from that last time I saw you in action, doesn't read as much of OMGUS as you are trying to play at.

Would you like to throw any other buzz words me way inaccurately for me to disprove?

Everything else you have said? Please, elaborate on why you are voting for me.

I consider

your

vote OMGUS because I do not see your case on me. Don't act like I'm the one stopping the discussion because that is flat out untrue. You've attempted to show scum motivation for who?

Don't meta read me. Nobody ever gets it right.

So other than meta, your stopping of our discussion (how does this make me scum?) and my refusal to provide reads (how does this make me scum?), do you actually have any reason to be voting for me? (Note: OMGUS is not a reason. You should stop doing that.)

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'm not sure why you're town-reading fish.

I could see Varsoon being scum, sure. But, he's not top priority toDay.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

VOTE: Drake

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I would kind of like for BBT to address his shift of read to me being maybe Town when I hadn't actually done anything?

It's not so much what you have done, although I like how you handled being put to L-1, it's more that other people are striking me as scummier than you.

I would much prefer to lynch Drake and Fish ahead of you right now.

I'm also not sure I liked your wagon. It was myself, Varsoon, Boon, Gam and Drake. Drake's hop onto the wagon really pinged my scumdar and made me think that you could be town.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

BBT, ignored/missed my question. Either way it's slightly scummy.

You asked me a question?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Can you quote said question.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I assumed you meant my vote on Fish was deadweight.

I thought I had made my stance on where I am at in this game pretty clear. Would you disagree?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

If I was interesting in lynching Varsoon toDay, I would.

But, he's not top priority.

Drake looks like a really good lynch.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

OK, but he states Varsoon as his 3rd strongest scum if I'm reading that correctly? Which means that Drake could just spend the day pushing Konowa/Boon and not interact with Varsoon at all.

I don't really see how that post dissuades you from a Drake/Varsoon team.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

OK, so you clearly see reasons for Drake!Scum.

Come join his wagon and we'll worry about Varsoon another time.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Because I'm having some difficulty reading Varsoon and would like some more time to do so.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Varsoon, you think Killer is voting Drake?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Not sure what you're trying to use those quotes for.

I have just been trying to persuade Killer to vote for Drake and he flat out refused...so I'm not sure where you're going with this.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Uuuuuggggh.
Ugggh.
Ugh.
Screw all you guys.
VOTE: drake

Good vote!

Doing shit with the family day. I'll catch up soon.

Hi Scum.

Acryon

null town - He seems to want to scumhunt. He has posted good content that I did actually enjoy reading for an incite on his thinking. Appears to be town in nature will have to see what he thinks about last few pages when he comes back. Until then he is null town slot.

BBT

null scum - Has played town pretty much all game as well. The only issue I have is the beginning of the game when he focuses Thor with vicious intent. Could be a case where he turned in his scum buddy for ult town cred. That and the feeling that he is holding quite a bit back earns him the null scum on my list.

Boon

scum - The hammer! The self vote. The way he tries to appeal to the town to make them feel bad for his mistakes. Good chance for him to flip scum in this game. I know im not the only one seeing this connection.
He is now my official top read. I only wanted to play with the Konowa wagon for a little bit. Still feel he is scummy but, Boon has more chance of flipping then Konowa will.
These two posts are also reasoning for why im against him.

I've never self-voted as scum before.

Using meta as a defense is honestly stupid anymore. It can be fabricated. I see this as " Look at me! I played a games where I self-voted and wasn't scum. Im such a pro!"

I also don't think so. If I had a scum partner I didn't want on my team, I wouldn't bat an eye about bussing them. I'd go through with it for my own town cred, so they don't mess it up for me.

This post relates back to the idea I had with BBT. As boon stated he was on both wagons (thor and my own) along with the fact that killing off his partner would buy him town cred for the rest of the game. This would also assist him in the smoothing out of any mistakes he would make during the game itself.

FormerFish

town ( I left out the others in his slot.) He appears town in nature and wants to go out and scum hunt. Kinda like him and I believe what he says.

KillerJester

null town - Haven't really found a home for him let. I shall later on. Seems town in nature as well. Don't really see any points to latch on to and dissect.

Konowa

scum - Very aggressive and appears to be vengeful his posts don't sit well and I could see him easily wanting distance from thor. He is a player who seems to go independently with winning this for mafia. This decision is based mostly on gut.

orcinus_theoriginal

null - Kinda scum like. Kinda town like. He dances between the stances with his posts and is not afraid to push or turtle up. He is and will most likely be a hard read I will have to come up with a spot for him aswell but, for now he is on the radar.

Varsoon

town - An angry townie actually. He just rages and then goes back to playing with his toys again. A lot of posts with a lot of content. After rereading his stuff I have concluded that he is not the scum I thought he was and instead has been moved to town for now. Posted some helpful advice in between his outbursts.

Xiao Long

null to scum - The self vote on himself is something that I view as a scum tell. Salty as can be and a touch rash. He just appears to have blinders on this game and looks like it will continue throughout. Kinda reminds me of a toned down Varsoon.

Zebulin

town - Helpful, appears to be honest and on point. Feel very good he will flip town at endgame.

I near enough disagree with every single read here. More than happy to lynch you.

Can you explain why Acryon is only null-town when everything you said about him pointed to a town-read?

You're claiming your vote on Konowa wasn't a serious vote? Even though you put him to L-1? I find that hard to believe. I'm sure Boon is your 'top read' now because the Konowa wagon has died down.

Fish has barely done anything and he gets a solid town-read over someone like Orc? You're gonna have to elaborate on that for me.

Konowa is scum because...he's aggressive? Last time I checked, playing aggressively wasn't a scum-tell.

But, at last I shall confess. I am your normal town member. Eh you can vote me off tho.

I am not much of a help I figure and one less town will help make mafia's job easier.

At least I got that list up. This game has been frustrating to say the least.

I have a real problem seeing the bolded coming from a town mindset. Why would town want to make mafia's job easier?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'd back down but can't now.
Stickin with it.
We'll get good info from this, especially given interactions. :3

I don't see many interactions that will give us info.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

-The whole wagon on Drake has variable amounts of input on why
-Drake has a reads writeup and claim
-People have reacted to Drake's reads/claim
-There has been plenty of interaction/words directed at Drake through the whole of D2

If you can't find anything from him in this game, then you need to step it up.

Well, you stated interactions first and have then proceeded to state 3 things that have nothing to do with interactions.

Drake has hardly interacted with anybody this whole game, never mind toDay.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Will get to this when I can get on the laptop.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Alright, let's do this.

Catching up.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I guess this is going to be an agree to disagree situation. I see where you are coming from, but I see no motivation for scum to stay off a wagon they are never going to catch any heat from. Added to the fact that it is rare, in my experience, to see an all town wagon like that.

Alright, if scum is on the wagon, who do you think it is and why?

Which of the two do you feel needs more explanation behind it, a town read or a scum read?

Personally, I prefer a deeper explanation behind a scum-read. However, I also like detailed explanations on players who have posted a lot though, not just a meta-read.

I think that the “convenience” comes from the fact that I came into the game as late as I did. Having a larger picture unfold all at once allows for a clearer picture then if I was getting it piece meal. Its like the whole boiling a frog story. Also, I’m not going to really give a shit about what you think of my reads until you out your own. Cause right now it seems like you have something ot say about everyone elses list, while you are keeping yours close to your chest… for what reason?

First point is understandable if you're influenced by what other people post.

I like to keep my reads close so scum don't know exactly where I'm at.

As for my Zeb scum read: The first thing that pinged me was him saying that he was willing to give Goblin the benefit of the doubt on day 1, but was reading him as his biggest suspect for the stuff that he was giving him a pass on. It felt like he was talking out of both sides of his mouth. I felt like his interpretation of the Thor/All debate was off, like he was trying to twist it to fit a different narrative. Voting All for showing frustration when dealing with Thor was uberbad. Same thing with the Kono/All spat. My read on Zeb comes down to a difference in opinion about how things are taken.

Hmm, I guess this answers my previous question but I'll leave it there in case you have any further thoughts/comments.

I'm not sure he was giving Goblin a pass? He asked him to explain it so I assume he was waiting for an explanation before deciding how to proceed (plus he went V/LA).

Ok, link?
Ok, so if you’ve seen town selfvote before, how do you figure out town v scum motivation for a selfvote?

I remembered incorrectly. I thought we had an all-town wagon on GM at one point in Open 570, but after checking, we did indeed have one scum on the wagon.

The bolded part is unnecessary and partly why I don’t like you or your play. This could totally just be a view that I hold (I don’t think it is though) but I feel like scum has more motivation to be assholes than town does. And I think that this comment has no other purpose than to poke the bear and piss Xiao off. Especially when I’ve seen you do it over and over and to multiple people, myself included.

I don't really want to get into this right now. All I will say is that I let A LOT of stuff that Xiao said to me slide, like, I could easily have reported him for it. Xiao clearly has a personal vendetta against me now and it just going to be anti-town all game (provided he isn't scum) and I would rather just not engage with him.

You think I have tried to antagonize you? I can honestly say I had no intention of doing so, it must just be the way I come across online.

This makes it sound like I was on the Kono wagon, or are you just pointing out that I am scum reading Kono?

Pointing out the scum-read. Is it still a scum-read?

I guess you are buying into the too scummy to be scum idea that Boon likes to perpetuate. I’ll say this as plainly as I can. Boon is either scum, or bad for town. Either way he needs to die at somepoint.

No, I'm buying into the 'there was no need for scum!Boon to hammer scum Thor like that in that particular scenario.' It's not like Thor doesn't have the ability to derail a wagon on him, it's not like all hope was lost. It literally makes no sense for scum!Boon to do that.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Well, shucks. You know the last person who told me I couldn’t do meta I ran a fucking train on and successfully lynched scum. So I am going to do what I like to do.

Go for it. Have fun. I hope you're the first to get it right.

So other than meta, your stopping of our discussion (how does this make me scum?) and my refusal to provide reads (how does this make me scum?), do you actually have any reason to be voting for me? (Note: OMGUS is not a reason. You should stop doing that.)

See above.
p.s.- Still not OMGUS, nice to see you really sticking with the accusation though.

Is this it? I noticed you have developed on why you're scum-reading me further down this post so whatever.

You called Varsoons vote on Boon opportunistic. Can you explain how this vote was not the same thing? I do know

you mentioned disdain for Drake earlier

, but you waited until there was 3 votes on him already to move your vote over.

I mean, you pretty much just answered your own question in this post. I bolded it for you.

To elaborate though, I was interested in keeping the pressure on Konowa to help me develop my read on him.

So if someone votes the way that you want them to, it’s not opportunistic. If they vote a way that you don’t like then it is opportunistic. Got it.

Of course I'm happy when someone votes somebody I am scum-reading.

Was there something particularly scummy in that you found in this post, or is this just you not so subtly reminding everyone about your read on me?

Just me reminding everyone that you're scum and they should vote for you.

BBT, I guess my scum read on you comes down to the way you choose to interact with me. I don’t see you trying to sort me, I see you with your mind being made up since the first time I posted. I see you posting with confbias up one said and down the other. A lot of what I don’t like about you could come down to a difference in playstyle, but I just see little to no town motivation in the way you play. And with re: your reads on Boon v. Drake. Boon is a town read for you (somefucking how) so anyone who speaks ill of him you try to throw a scum tag on using opportunistic as your reasoning. Drake is someone you have a scum read on (with some reasoning) and are buddying up to everyone trying to get the lynch.
What I don’t get is this. You could easily make a case for scumBoon based off bad play, but you are handwaving it away. Drake makes a couple bad posts and you are drinking beers, tying the noose and riling up your redneck buddies for a night on the town. What is the difference between the two?

I'll admit, I heavily disliked your entry post and I do have a tendency to let myself fall into conf bias quite quickly. I thought you were scum from your first post, so in every interaction after, I will treat you as scum until there is a change in my read.

I just think Boon is an easy lynch toDay. If he's scum, then I will wholeheartedly apologize to town post-game, but I really cannot see it.

I do want a lynch on Drake. I'm not sure how I'm buddying though.

I feel my stances on both Boon and Drake have been made clear. I see no need to further elaborate.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

WTF is Drake's 1142.

Like, that is

literally

a running commentary of the game. I don't know why he has posted that.

That makes Fish's entry post look like a shining beacon of towniness. Jesus Christ, can we lynch Drake now?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

So, two leading wagons are;

Drake;

Orc, Boon, Konowa, BBT

BBT;

Xiao, Fish, Varsoon

One of those wagons is town as fuck.

The other one isn't.

Let's see if we can work this out.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

That certainly is a strange interpretation of the wagons.

You should try again.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I could.

I'm just trying to understand how you can be so wrong.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I can understand the Xiao read. Though, I think the read should be more substantial than just the interaction we had.

You liked Fish's entry post. That pretty much negates your liking of his 'points and examination.'

I mean sure, I can't argue your role PM as I don't know what it says.

I am getting butchered in this thread. A weaker person than I may have exploded/reported posts/asked for replacement/committed suicide by now.

Well, I'm town. So, where do we go from here?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

How is that aimed at you?

OK yeah, you had a go at me. The other 3 things you haven't done so wtf?

I'm genuinely getting fucked off with this game now

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Seriously. I just want to enjoy a game of fucking mafia.

I have done my best to not fucking interact with you and you keep quoting my posts and trying to get people to vote me because you keep trying to make this fucking personal.

I'm sorry you're taking it that way. Please, don't interact with me and I won't interact with you and we'll make sure we don't join any of the same future games.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Meh, why no pedit.

You obviously didn't report my posts because I heard nothing back from it.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

No, I don't "keep trying to get people to vote you" for anything personal. Actually, aside from your trolling, I have quite good reasons for voting you. For instance your massive misrep of me saying I was calling you scum because you didn't like my reads list. That's not even remotely why I called you scum, and even Varsoon made note of it. Your sheeping has nothing to do with our exchange. Your terrible vote swaps during your engagement with Varsoon near the beginning of the day. Literally the only time you could say I tried to get people to vote you because of personal reasons was 1164, and that wasn't a call to vote you so much as a call to show I'm not full of shit when I say you are purposely antagonizing me.

As far as you not hearing anything back from the reports, that's not my area as I'm not a mod.


As far as refusing to interact: that is terrible. Like it or not, we're both still alive in this game. I really don't mind interacting with you so long as you lose the condescension and the insults. After all, that really has no bearing on why you're scum.

OK, maybe that's me going on the defensive then wrt to you accusing me of being scum for ~reasons~.

Well, I don't remember you showing any previous inclination to thinking I was scum before I said I disliked your reads list so I can only assume that that was when your scum-read on me began. Even in your reads-list I was null, so, where am I going wrong here?

Where have I sheeped? Is sheeping always a sign of scum?

My early D2 play was weird, yeah, but not scummy.

I assumed you reported to list-mods or whatever and as I didn't receive a PM assumed you didn't do it. I didn't know it was to game Mod so that makes more sense now and makes my recent post look like it could be targeted at you.

I don't think I come across well online. I can't help it either, it's just the way I phrase things and because I don't get offended easily I kind of expect the same from other people when that's obviously not the case. Please, just take everything I say with a grain of salt.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Varsoon, you're doing some serious buddying up to Fish.

Is he

that

strong of a town-read?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I don't know.

When I first read it I didn't see much wrong with it. After reading your post I can kind of see where you're coming from, it's like he's trying to subtly push the Drake wagon without bringing too much attention to himself whilst doing so.

Something does feel off about it.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Yeah, that doesn't really make much sense.

Why is that so?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

It's not just that though is it.

Like, your very first interaction was 'Good shit, Fish!' or something along those lines.

Will look into it further when I get some more time.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

That's a good point.

The problem is, I could see any of them being scum. Though, I do feel quite a bit better about Fish after our recent discussions.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I think it goes Varsoon > Xiao > Fish for me.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Also, BBT, I think I confused you with someone else who was sheeping.

That would make more sense

Who did you confuse me with?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Also, what effect does that have on your read of me?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

You noticed it enough to accuse me of doing it.

I find it somewhat scummy that you can't place this accusation onto the correct person.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

But it does look like you were fabricating a read on me. Therefore, I would like to know who the accusation was actually aimed at.

Where have I misrepped?

I don't know why your vote swaps is a plural as well. I think I only changed my vote onto Varsoon and that seems to be the stem of your problem.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Oh yeah, so I did.

Man, what I crazy horse I was at the beginning of this Day.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

FUCK.

I thought we had this.

GG scum. Once again, lurking wins a game for scum. I don't know what has to happen before people just start policy-lynching lurkers.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

What?

I slipped to you that KJ was last scum and you didn't pick up on it?

I then figured you hadn't been spoilered and I didn't want to ruin it for you as usually people don't get spoilers because they want to keep figuring the game out.

What have I missed here?

PEdit - Why the fuck would I out I was a PR Orc?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Fucking quote where I told you Zeb was last scum.

PEdit - Wow, wtf are you on. I fucking crumbed it hard, like, literally stating Boon was town over and over and over again providing very little reasoning.

I'm not getting NK'ed N2 to clear one fucking player. Later in the game, I obviously would have claimed. Not on D2.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

This is what I said to you.

Thanks Orc, much appreciated and returned. You had both scum nailed on D2, what made you reverse the town-read on KJ?

Just wish I had trusted my gut more on D2.

Haha, I meant D3. My bad.

I have also stupidly assumed that you got spoilers when you might not have. My bad again haha.

Tell me where I said Zeb was scum. Like, I have just said KJ is the last scum right there.

I didn't crumb it outright. That would be fucking dumb.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Nope, I like it as well.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Nope, I like it as well.

How is that a good play for town? If it's scum or VT, we get back VT, and if it's a PR, then we just killed a PR on Day 1. How is that possibly good for town?

I like it for late game wagon analysis. Also, it's good for reactions. It's also good because it's very difficult for scum to fake-claim so early.

We don't always kill a PR either. Think about that one.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Nah, because WIFOM always plays a part.

Not just a doc that can stop scum from going after PR either.

I also forgot that it forces scum into early decisions, namely, whether to join the wagon or not. If not, they need a valid reason for not doing so. I personally like to see a counter-wagon to an early wagon as well.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

They get called RVS votes.

But when you're the 6th voter on a wagon, I don't consider that RVS. You know that wagon is building, you know who the person is being pushed, it's not an RVS vote.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Well maybe, but I would argue that at least 4 of those 6

were

RVS votes, and honestly, using the information gained from 1 page of posting to make a serious vote with an intent to lynch seems really terrible. Serious voting for pressure early on is fine, but doing it with an intent to lynch on page 2 tells me you aren't thinking it through. Lot's can be learned on day 1, and speedlynching someone doesn't help that.

Nah, D1's are usually a cluster-fuck anyway. Plus, IME, D1's go on for far, far too long. There is no need to take every day right down to the deadline, it creates town apathy, it can present town with too much information and I actually think longer days favour scum.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I agree.

I think 10-12 pages is more than enough for a D1 in a 13 player game. Providing you don't have a spam poster.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'm inclined to agree in part. I agree that long days can do that, but take D1 of this very game for instance. If people bought into that idea and lynched Varsoon, it would have been quite bad. But instead, we took our time and got scum.

I'm not opposed to pushing someone to the point of a claim if they actually have a legitimate wagon on them, but a wagon 20 posts into the game with primarily RVS votes on it is not exactly what I would describe as legitimate.

Sure, we got scum this time. How often does that happen though?

It's not just the person being wagoned who we're looking for reactions from though.