Mini 1627: Ninja Mini Mafia
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Formerfish Busboy Revolutionary
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Formerfish Busboy Revolutionary
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Formerfish Busboy Revolutionary
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Formerfish Busboy Revolutionary
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Formerfish Busboy Revolutionary
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Formerfish Busboy Revolutionary
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Alright, I am about to dump a huge post, i may have rambled in parts and there is a good chnace that some of it might not make snese because the fiance and baby are out of town for the weekend and i started slamming yuengling pounders as soon as i got home from work at midnight. I'll so a lynchability list after my mental shit.-
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Formerfish Busboy Revolutionary
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BBT- bad form for voting the largest wagon and then going lva. And then you try to pacify your target by insinuating that he is worried about being voted. You don’t see any reason why scum would quick vote their buddy for a lynch? Especially when said person, Boon, has made a habit of playing like a complete and utter jackass and would probably get away with it on those merits alone? You think that the idea of you sheeping Thor was a flat out lie? Didn’t you sheep Thor onto Varsoon and then go lva? Let me look back towards the beginning of this paragraph… yup. Why are you assuming the Thor wagon was all town? How often do you see no scum on a successful lynch? #539, start believing in the ability of scum to stop situations from getting out of hand quickly. You won’t have to worry about this slot for lurking anymore, I don’t think im active anywhere else, and I have plenty of time to devote. Townies most def self vote at certain times. What you need to figure out is if this is one of those times?
Gams- post #63 you say you see Thor as town, but really don’t say why. You explain your Varsoon read though, why only explain one? Why does town want to be out of RVS ASAP? Your read on Boon is bad, and you should feel bad. I literally can’t even follow the logic you are trying to use here.
Acryon- I like the questions you are asking, shows you seeking to understand motivations and whatnot. I don’t like your idea that we need to get out of RVS as fast as possible though. Do you not see any point to RVS? #362 you say that we as town shouldn’t be trying to get others to agree with our town reads. Have you ever played a game where a townbloc formed?This question comes from something you said, but I want everyone to answer it as well, a few people have mentioned that saying someone is scummy off of one thing is scummy, so what is an acceptable threshold to have suspicions of someone?And how do you not haveanycomments on the Thor/All/Kono shitfest? Re: #369 private topics are a fairly new thing for this site, and a lot of mods still prefer to use qts because there is less that could go wrong with them. I once had to recreate a scum thread in a game I ran because it wouldn’t let me edit the player list to add on a replacement. What made you so sure Thor v Orc was tvt? You are the second person to lay out the theory that scum was not on the wagon. I don’t like this. Saying that scum wouldn’t have been able to get on to vote totally ignores the possibility that scum were among those who voted. #536 struck me as a little off because you are arguing with Varsoon over having a town pile, which seems off given your comment earlier about townhunting (which is a totally legit style), I can’t put my finger on why it bugs me, but it does. I didn’t like it when you unvoted Boon before intent was given to see how he would react, and now I am seeing you advocate the same thing with the Konowa wagon. What is the point of driving these guys to l-1 and then back off before a claim? It’s like deep thrusting without any intention of finishing, what is it going to take to get one of these fuckers into the vinegar strokes?
Zeb- How often do you get scum reads off page 1? How often are those reads accurate? And do you give the benefit of the doubt on d1 or scumread people? #335 is a Debating is inherently fine, but when it starts to become an argument over semantics who gives a fucking shit. I think I hate everything you said in that post. Konowa didn’t sound town at all in his interactions with All, and even just hearing it leaves a dirty feeling on my eyes.
Boonskiies- its post #84 and I see a level headed player with sane play, what have you done with the Boonskiies I know and slightly dislike? In #127 you vote Allyra for town reading Varsoon and Thor, which of those shouldn’t have been a town read and why didn’t you have your vote on them at that point. I have a big issue with this statement : “We're on page 6, so you have no reason you should be so strong on a town read already.” I have people I can read in one post, your idea that in 6 pages a town read can’t be attained is asinine. #134 is pretty bad as well, you are finding All scummy for townreading people that you are also townreading. In #166 you claim to be a troll, which you normally are, when you are town. I don’t see you as town here. #229 is an attempt to blatantly discredit Alls read. Reason for Rando vote is #247 was…? #389, god I wish people knew how much of a shit you were to not put anyone near l-1 without you already on the wagon. You really should be lynched for this alone. And yes I do realize that you hammered on scum, but you failed to give him time to make a claim which if you remember from earlier is pretty fucking important. It could also be seen as trying to end the day early so that your scumbuddy doesn’t have the opportunity to do/say anything that could hurt the endgame.
This is danger close to being a trust tell (I think). I saw you do this in the game I modded, and you were town, but I would have killed the shit out of you if I had been playing. “Ever think I might have a fucking role that causes me to auto hammer?” We are playing a mini normal game. You show me one fucking instance where there is a compulsive hammer role in a normal game and my vote doesn’t go on you when I am done with my read through. Your #626 is hella funny. “hey guyz, can some1 unvt pleaz, I don’t wnt some1 to lolhammer me while I’m doing my chores. Parents!” You didn’t care enough d1 to let Thor participate before his lynch and we could have gotten something good from him. A reads list, a claim, misinformation, fucking anything. “uhm....scum replacing out? or just doesn't want to deal with defending himself?” What pressure was he escaping?In post 421, Boonskiies wrote:I troll hammer all the time. Usually as town. I don't think I've ever hammered as scum, come to think of it.
Allyra- you replace in on page 4 and can’t be fucked to read the game before asking questions. Why? I think you and I saw the same thing re: Gams 63. I’d like you to elaborate on what you saw. What didn’t you like about Konowas entrance? I like your tet-a-tet with Thorella a lot, like a lot a lot. I don’t see this as scum theater, you brought up too many good points that really hit Thor in the magical hammer. (Are you an alt?) Fuck, just hit #238…
Orcinus- you pick up right where All left off, it’s not often that I get to see Thor on the backpedal. Why did you vote Varsoon start of d2? “do you think survivalism is a scum marker?” I kinda do.
Varsoon- Thor was scummy as shit with everything he did, what did you need to step back to see? Do you still have a Gams town read, if so why? You think that All/Orc v Thor was all scum theater? Ok, next post whew, I was going to have to roll with a vote on you at some point for that bussing comment, jesus that would have made no sense.
Konowa- I don’t think we have the same definition of circular logic. Scum does x, Y did x, therefore y could be scum is not circular logic, that is linear logic. #198 is bad, this game is built upon people interpreting peoples words to find scum. We use our past experiences to figure that out the best we can and put pressure where we see things out of place. You are scum reading All for saying that something you did was scummy, and then vote based off that weak reasoning. In #226 you accuse Allyra of making shitty statements without backing them up, which were? Only reason I ask is because last I saw you said you were happy without reading what happened previously because you were happy with your vote. So did you read and come to that conclusion on All, or just speaking out of your ass? I really don’t like the way you were teaming up with Thor on All. It’s the kind of self-righteous bullshit that infuriates me in games too. The idea that your reads are infallible, but everyone else’s that you don’t agree with are easily seen to be false. And then you wonder why people lose their shit when trying to deal with you.
Xiao- nothing from you has stood out one way or the other, until this
Big QFT here. 600+ posts in, you really should have some reads, so I’ll agree with BBT there. BBT has a point, and it would probably be easier to just answer the question. Why post a reads list that is pretty much all null? One lynch and you go all martyr, no bueno kimosabi.In post 396, Xiao Long wrote:It might depending on how fast mod locks this thread, after that it's pointless.
My biggest thing on Konowa is how he came into the game saying he would tell us who scum was, but then did zero scum hunting whatsoever. The only thing he did was defend himself from prodding from Allyra, and then vote because of her questioning him. Then once she left and the heat was off, he unvoted and hasn't been around since. Sorry this is devoid of quotes, I want to get my thoughts out before nightfall.
Drake- I don’t know what you are yet, but I think I love you for #671 alone.-
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Formerfish Busboy Revolutionary
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Town: Xiao, Varsoon, Orc,
Null: Drake, Acr, BBT
Scum/Can Die In a Fire And I Would Sleep Soundly: Konowa, Boonskiies, Zeb, Gams
And here is where it gets interesting
Konowa (3): Boonskiies, Gamsimbre, Drake Crusader (contains two of my scummier reads)
Boonskiies (2): Zebulin, Konowa (contains two of my scummier reads)
Xiao Long (2): Xiao Long
Goblin (1): Varsoon
Varsoon (1): orcinus_theoriginal, BBT
Bussing is a thing, but who is doing it and why? Am I all twisted and have fucked up reads? I think I'll wait for people to respond to my brain dump before trying to figure this out.-
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Formerfish Busboy Revolutionary
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Formerfish Busboy Revolutionary
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Unvoting me doesn’t prevent you from answering my questions:
What does me looking to see where the wagons were at tell you?
What did you see when you took a step back during the Thor shit?
Still town reading Gams? Why?
You really think that All/Orc v Thor was scum theater?
In post 809, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:OK, this accusation of me sheeping Thor is ridiculous. Since when is an RVS vote sheeping? Seriously.
Thor put down a vote, called it serious and then you voted without saying much of anything. Oh wait, you didn’t say anything. And I know it is page 1 and who in their right fucking mind would be throwing down serious votes by post 7, but you sheeped the wagon Thor started. And you could have voted Thor but didn’t, why?
I also still maintain that scum!Boon does not hammer Thor like that. Coincidentally, if Boon does turn out to be scum I'll forever policy lynch him in any game we're in.
We will agree to disagree on this one. I see cause for scum to hammer in that situation.
In post 800, Formerfish wrote: Why are you assuming the Thor wagon was all town? How often do you see no scum on a successful lynch?
In post 800, Formerfish wrote:You are the second person to lay out the theory that scum was not on the wagon. I don’t like this. Saying that scum wouldn’t have been able to get on to vote totally ignores the possibility that scum were among those who voted
Twice you state you're unhappy with people thinking that it's unlikely scum were on the Thor wagon. IMO, if scum were not on the wagon they would most definitely be pushing to say that scum were on the wagon. The lynch pool for scum becomes worryingly small if we assume Thor was an all-town wagon.
Yes, I even said that someone was the second to make mention of it. And you could make the same argument for scum on the wagon, it would behoove them to make a case for scum being off it. This point is actually pretty weak of you to make because it assumes evidence that we don’t have with conclusions based on that absent evidence.
Fish, do you think both scum(?) bussed?
I think the likely hood that there is one scum is fairly high, I would doubt both were though.
Could you sum your read up on Acryon in a sentence or two please. I mean, that's an awful lot of fluff to say someone is null.
I liked his earlier posting, and not so much his later. The questions he was asking seemed pointed and related to finding scum, but then during one of the more information dense times he goes dark, and then stated that he didn’t have much to say about the Kono/All/Thor fiasco. He then pops back up during your face off with Xiao to play referee. So yeah, null read there.
Same for Boon.
Is this why am I scum reading Boon? Cause that’s what I’m doing. I have played with Boon many times and I have modded a game he was in. This isn’t the same Boon that I know and loath. His game here is more reserved and actually seemed normal until that shit hammer. The hammer is a big part of where my scum read comes from because that seems like an example of where too scummy to be scummy is probably actually scum at work. I have seen scum buddies quick hammer like that before when they think that a situation has the ability to get out of control. I see no town motivation at all within Boons actions because he deprived the town from information that we could have gained from pressing Thor a little.
Your notes on Varsoon are worringly thin given the amount of posts he has. Like, you don't even explain why he is in your town-reads. Can you do that for me?
My experience with Varsoon comes from Touhou, where we were both town. I feel like reading his posts this game that I see the exact same thing I did that game. If it makes a difference, he was even getting scum reads in that game for his play. Mostly I would say that this is a strong gut read.
I have even less on Gams and he is one of my top scum reads, why don’t you take issue with the skeletal notes on him?
In post 800, Formerfish wrote:Xiao- nothing from you has stood out one way or the other
Nothing stood out to you from Xiao except one post...and he becomes like your top town-read? I don't get it. Your reads are beginning to look awfully convenient to me.
Alright, first I never ranked my reads, you just assumed I did because they are in an order. If you actually looked closely you would see that they are separated into categories and listed in order of how they are on the player list. He became a town read because he was the only one to call out Konowa on never following through with his promise of scum hunting in post #396. He faltered a bit with his reads list and the ensuing conversation with you, but his self vote read town as fuck to me. I think that you can agree after the last game we had together why that might seem that way to me.
In post 801, Formerfish wrote:Town: Xiao, Varsoon, Orc,
Null: Drake, Acr, BBT
Scum/Can Die In a Fire And I Would Sleep Soundly: Konowa, Boonskiies, Zeb, Gams
I mean, with the exception of Varsoon, your scum-reads can just be explained as 'Most likely people to get lynched toDay'.
Konowa I explained, Boonskiies I explained. Zeb and Gams I didn’t explain to much, mostly because there isn’t much to use for an explanation. And I don’t give a fuck what you think about my reads list. You however seem to really care about others since this is the second one you have basically called shit. Too many null reads, no good. Definite reads, no good.
You haven't explained any of your reads. That big ass post is basically a commentary of what's happened in the game with very little actual analysis and a couple of questions thrown in.
Nope, I’m not going to let you try and accuse me of IIoA, because that is just flat out not true. My post is a mix of observations, analysis and probative questions with the intent to nail people down on things that I saw that pinged me a certain way.
You don’t get to not answer questions either:
Why do you assume that the Thor wagon was all town?
Do you see many all town lynches?
Have you ever seen a townie self vote?
In post 810, orcinus_theoriginal wrote:I disagree I think survivalism is not exclusively a scum marker. Town PR fit into that mold as well. Nothing else addressed to me that I saw. Come vote varsoon!
Never said it was exclusive. I do feel like scum moreso than town want to stay alive at all cost. Town want to stay alive until they aren’t useful anymore OR their death could bemadeuseful. And I’m pretty on board with you just being a solid town read for your interactions with Thor. If you are scum and that was theater, then brafuckingvo.
In post 814, orcinus_theoriginal wrote:Fish, describe the process by which you wrote #800
I thought I did that in #799, but I guess you need it answered in a different way. When I got home from work I made myself a nice bowl of soup and some buttered bread. I began drinking beer and started the thread. This was about 12:30amish. For the next 6 hours or so I read the thread, made notes and started to form reads as I went. I also watched the last 5 episodes of The Shield as I went. Somewhere around 4-4:30 am I saw that the post count was growing so I made a comment that I was getting drunk and marathoning the thread to get current. I finished reading, and then posted my findings. Looking for something more?-
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Formerfish Busboy Revolutionary
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Ahh.. ok, I get what you were looking at. I separated things by people, its not a linear read through. When someone pinged me i put their name in microsoft word and then anything else that hit me concerning them would just go with their name. I didn't notice All had replaced out because all I knew going in was who had died, which is why there aren't any notes for Thor or Rando. That's why there are things referenced out of order from events with other people.
pedit- show me why its tvt. BBT got one over on me last game we played together, I'm not so willing to just slap him with anything.
pedit2- I know that, re varsoon, thats why my read on him is based off him in Touhou. I don't get what you are saying exactly, because it seems to be exactly what I said. Wait, Touhou is a game, not a person.-
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Formerfish Busboy Revolutionary
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No, thats a reading comprehension fail. I am saying that I see the same play from him this game as I saw from him that game. You could take his posts from either game and switch them and they would intersect flawlessly.
pedit- sorry, not tvt that was a typing fail. Show me how BBT is town based off Thor interactions.-
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Formerfish Busboy Revolutionary
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Formerfish Busboy Revolutionary
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Formerfish Busboy Revolutionary
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Formerfish Busboy Revolutionary
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@Xiao- no? I don't see the vote as opportunistic. If he read the same thing I did and came to the same conclusion then he voted where he thinks he found scum. And I agree with his sentiment. Sometimes we get so rolled up in the idea that we are about to make a mistake with a lynch that we pull back and keep doing it until we a) hit deadline and have to compromise and usually miss, b) wait for a cop or other role to out a guilty and then follow, or c) wait for scum to make an egregious error and hammer them for it. We have a certain amount of mislynches built into each game, using them to get information is an unpopular idea among those with weak stomachs.
@Orc- You don't think that could have been scum theater? Something set up before hand by Thor, a very strong player, and BBT, a very sneaky player? Like Thor came in and said I am not going to vote you, call me on it for towncred?-
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Formerfish Busboy Revolutionary
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Formerfish Busboy Revolutionary
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Formerfish Busboy Revolutionary
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BBT, I'll respond to that last wall in a minute. I just strolled through your iso and noticed an absence of something. You admit to disliking Xiaos reads list because you think it's empty, and you don't like mine because it seems safe and pretty vanilla. So why don't you go ahead and give us your reads stud, I'd love to see how a real Mafia player creates a reads list.-
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Formerfish Busboy Revolutionary
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I don't think I'm on any wagon. And the more I think about it the more I want Boon to swing. That hammer was just megabad, like Sharknado without the campy goodness. Every game I've seen Boon play he has this loveable idiot act going on and he eventually says something along the lines of, "Well if I were scum, do you really think I'd do that?" and "Well if you guys lynch me then look at the people pushing me as scum, cause that's where the scum really is!" I just can't let this go on. Call it a policy lynch if you must, but if it walks like a scumbag, talks like a scumbag and plays like a scumbag, there's a good chance they are a scumbag.
Vote Boon-
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Formerfish Busboy Revolutionary
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Its not tunnel vision at all, and the fact that you are calling it that is a misrep. So please stop saying that. You are the epitome of too scummy to be scum and you will never change your ways unless you are forced to. I don't believe in your style of play because it is literally the worst thing I've ever seen. You play scummy as shit and then when someone pushes you for it you call them opportunistic scum going after low hanging fruit and point to the times you were town and mislynched as supposes evidence on your current alignment.-
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Formerfish Busboy Revolutionary
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Formerfish Busboy Revolutionary
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Formerfish Busboy Revolutionary
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Formerfish Busboy Revolutionary
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Formerfish Busboy Revolutionary
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Well that escalated pretty quickly. I fail to see any reasoning (actual reasoning, you know not the bullshit buzz words you're slinging in my direction). And find it quite funny that you vote me when I refuse to answer your line of question when you are in turn refusing to out your reads, which is pretty anti town when you think about the denial of information. Its especially bothersome that the info you refuse to provide is something you've made more than one observation about when done by others. Personally, I'm am waiting with bated breath to see what this mastery of reads list must look like. I imagine a font like none I've seen before, and composition that would make 14th century French poets weep with envy.
Vote BBT
Let's fucking do this.-
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I do find it a bit scummy to shit on everyone's reads and to then turn around and refuse to give your own. Especially I'm the way that he did it. Calling mine pedestrian but refusing to devulge his advantgaud reads in the same breath basically.
Added to all the shit hea been saying towards me = a scum read. I'd say Boon BBT team for the win.-
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In post 1001, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:In post 961, Formerfish wrote:Well that escalated pretty quickly. I fail to see any reasoning (actual reasoning, you know not the bullshit buzz words you're slinging in my direction). And find it quite funny that you vote me when I refuse to answer your line of question when you are in turn refusing to out your reads, which is pretty anti town when you think about the denial of information. Its especially bothersome that the info you refuse to provide is something you've made more than one observation about when done by others. Personally, I'm am waiting with bated breath to see what this mastery of reads list must look like. I imagine a font like none I've seen before, and composition that would make 14th century French poets weep with envy.
Vote BBT
Let's fucking do this.
Well, I mean, you can clearly see I disliked your entry post for one. Then, you proceeded to completely stop the discussion we were having. I fail to see the town motivation in that.
It's good to see that OMGUS is still a thing as well. Votes should be piling on Fish now, that would be great.
In post 962, Konowa wrote:Alright now that another game is over, maybe I'll actually be able to focus on this clusterfuck.
That's good because I'm beginning to think you're town.
In post 963, Drake Crusader wrote:Clearly Several pages later and he still isn't lynched. Konowa self voted = scum. As stated earlier he even said he was scum. = scum
He bullies people = scum. His posts and plays shows that he was afk when pressure on him was applied and now he is back as the wagon is forming again on BBT
Boon once again has me on edge. I have my reads almost finished. Just gotta work on Former and Varsoon.
Silll believe my vote on konowa is pure ( since he is scum.)
LOL what? Would happily, HAPPILY, lynch this guy right now.
In post 979, orcinus_theoriginal wrote:
i have a townread on BBT because refusal to give out reads list is something i do and i don't know if he's trying to manipulate me, and i think his interactions with thor seem pretty townish, and i think the only thing that bugs me about BBT is all the while i'm hard defending him he hasn't said a word to/about me and that's kinda weird
I believe we spoke earlier in the day. I'm pretty sure you're town and you seem set on lynching Varsoon today. I'm not sure that's what I want to do and am therefore pursuing other avenues. It would be just fantastic if you could vote Fish.
In post 984, Formerfish wrote:I do find it a bit scummy to shit on everyone's reads and to then turn around and refuse to give your own. Especially I'm the way that he did it. Calling mine pedestrian but refusing to devulge his advantgaud reads in the same breath basically.
Added to all the shit hea been saying towards me = a scum read. I'd say Boon BBT team for the win.
So, this is you admitting you're voting me because I voted you, right?
Well, if you ignore everything else I've said, squint real hard and then shove your head up your own ass I could see how scum would come to that conclusion.
But no. I won't admit to that because its not true and its a blatant attempt to discredit me, you know that bullshit tactic you've been trying against me since I came into the game.
So do you consider every return vote to be OMGUS? Cause I usually think of naked, knee jerk reactionary votes as OMGUS, but votes that come after an a) attempt to dance with the pretty bitch only to be turned away like the start of every 80's teen movie, b) an attempt to show scum motivation, and c) alarming feeling of deja vu from that last time I saw you in action, doesn't read as much of OMGUS as you are trying to play at.
Would you like to throw any other buzz words me way inaccurately for me to disprove?-
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In post 843, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:In post 816, Formerfish wrote:
Yes, I even said that someone was the second to make mention of it. And you could make the same argument for scum on the wagon, it would behoove them to make a case for scum being off it. This point is actually pretty weak of you to make because it assumes evidence that we don’t have with conclusions based on that absent evidence.
Yeah, I can see what you're saying here. I guess it's more from my POV as I feel confident in a lot of town-reads on the Thor wagon.
Thor665 (7): orcinus_theoriginal, randomidget, BlueBloodedToffee, Zebulin, Xiao Long, acryon, Boonskiies
Orc is town because of Orc Vs Thor, Random conf town, I'm town, Zeb is town because he chose to vote Thor when the two leading wagons were at L-4(?), Xiao is the one I am least confident on but his shit-fit he threw kinda makes me want to think he is town, Acryon's read progression from being on Thor side of Thor vs Orc to eventually voting Thor feels genuine and, well, we've been over Boon.
So, for me, that leaves both(?) scum off the wagon. At least for now.
I guess this is going to be an agree to disagree situation. I see where you are coming from, but I see no motivation for scum to stay off a wagon they are never going to catch any heat from. Added to the fact that it is rare, in my experience, to see an all town wagon like that.
In post 816, Formerfish wrote:
He then pops back up during your face off with Xiao to play referee. So yeah, null read there.
Is this somehow alignment indicative for you?
Alignment indicative on its own, no. It could have greater implications later on depending on flips when looking at associative tells.
In post 816, Formerfish wrote:
Your notes on Varsoon are worringly thin given the amount of posts he has. Like, you don't even explain why he is in your town-reads. Can you do that for me?
My experience with Varsoon comes from Touhou, where we were both town. I feel like reading his posts this game that I see the exact same thing I did that game. If it makes a difference, he was even getting scum reads in that game for his play. Mostly I would say that this is a strong gut read.
I have even less on Gams and he is one of my top scum reads, why don’t you take issue with the skeletal notes on him?
Because Gam hasn't posted anywhere near as much as Varsoon, so naturally, there is more to say about Varsoon than there is Gam.
Which of the two do you feel needs more explanation behind it, a town read or a scum read?
In post 816, Formerfish wrote:
Konowa I explained, Boonskiies I explained. Zeb and Gams I didn’t explain to much, mostly because there isn’t much to use for an explanation. And I don’t give a fuck what you think about my reads list. You however seem to really care about others since this is the second one you have basically called shit. Too many null reads, no good. Definite reads, no good.
I didn't say your reads-list was shit. I said they were convenient reads that, I would say, line up well with the general feel of the game so far. There isn't much 'going against the grain' for you to be called out on.
Can you elaborate on your Zeb scum-read?
I think that the “convenience” comes from the fact that I came into the game as late as I did. Having a larger picture unfold all at once allows for a clearer picture then if I was getting it piece meal. Its like the whole boiling a frog story. Also, I’m not going to really give a shit about what you think of my reads until you out your own. Cause right now it seems like you have something ot say about everyone elses list, while you are keeping yours close to your chest… for what reason?
As for my Zeb scum read: The first thing that pinged me was him saying that he was willing to give Goblin the benefit of the doubt on day 1, but was reading him as his biggest suspect for the stuff that he was giving him a pass on. It felt like he was talking out of both sides of his mouth. I felt like his interpretation of the Thor/All debate was off, like he was trying to twist it to fit a different narrative. Voting All for showing frustration when dealing with Thor was uberbad. Same thing with the Kono/All spat. Maybe it was being able to look back at it and take it all in at once, but I saw what All was saying about Konos play before it was even brought up in thread. The fact that she was basically getting attacked by two players and no one gave a shit that her points were being ignored is something I can understand very well. Scum tends to avoid rational discussions and debates because they can get trapped. They prefer to keep people at arms length and argue semantics and minute points in such length that towns eyes glaze over when trying to decipher the walls upon walls of shit posting. My read on Zeb comes down to a difference in opinion about how things are taken.
In post 816, Formerfish wrote:
You don’t get to not answer questions either:
Why do you assume that the Thor wagon was all town?
Do you see many all town lynches?
Have you ever seen a townie self vote?
See above.
I have seen them, yes. In fact, in a recent game, if I had believed the VCA which pointed to a 6 player all town wagon, we would have lynched scum instead of town in LyLo.
Yes, I have.
Ok.
Ok, link?
Ok, so if you’ve seen town selfvote before, how do you figure out town v scum motivation for a selfvote?
In post 832, Xiao Long wrote:
Except that's not what you did, was it? You called a post shitty, then only later on when I got became noticeably annoyed by it did you try to justify it as scum hunting when in reality your post had no question and served no purpose than to insult.
You continuing to ignore what I was saying and try to bullshit spin it into something completely different than what I said made me lose any and all desire to continue the game.
Coming back to it now, it still pisses me off, but instead of voting myself, I'll just vote you for the incredibly scummy play that I was too annoyed to properly address.
VOTE: BBT
My vote's probably staying here the rest of the day unless someone somehow becomes scummier than you.
I have explained why I did what I did. If you don't believe me, I quite frankly couldn't give a shit. I'll refrain from interacting with you becauseI don't want to make you cry.
The bolded part is unnecessary and partly why I don’t like you or your play. This could totally just be a view that I hold (I don’t think it is though) but I feel like scum has more motivation to be assholes than town does. And I think that this comment has no other purpose than to poke the bear and piss Xiao off. Especially when I’ve seen you do it over and over and to multiple people, myself included.
In post 860, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:In post 859, Varsoon wrote:@BBT: Nuanced reading of the game, critical of self and reads, is putting in an effort that's pinging town to me--asks questions, isn't totally sure of self, is willing to take risks. I dunno, man, I dig it. If it was scum, he could've easily joined any of the large wagons. But not here. So yeah dawg.
I didn't see all that much analysis.
Personal opinion that no amount of arguing will show that you are wrong. Also, something that you haven’t tried to prove, just something you keep repeating.
Effort isn't indicative of alignment.
True, but you can start to sort me based off the content that I’m providing.
How is 'isn't sure of self' and 'willing to take risks' alignment indicative? In fact, how is he willing to take risks?
Putting a reads list out there that I’m going to have to stand behind and defend. That’s one.
Join the large wagons? You mean join the biggest wagon, like say, Konowa?
This makes it sound like I was on the Kono wagon, or are you just pointing out that I am scum reading Kono?
In post 864, Formerfish wrote:I don't think I'm on any wagon. And the more I think about it the more I want Boon to swing. That hammer was just megabad, like Sharknado without the campy goodness. Every game I've seen Boon play he has this loveable idiot act going on and he eventually says something along the lines of, "Well if I were scum, do you really think I'd do that?" and "Well if you guys lynch me then look at the people pushing me as scum, cause that's where the scum really is!" I just can't let this go on. Call it a policy lynch if you must, but if it walks like a scumbag, talks like a scumbag and plays like a scumbag, there's a good chance they are a scumbag.
Vote Boon
Varsoon, remember when you said something about scum jumping on the easiest wagons? What's your opinion on Fish jumping on the Boon wagon?
I guess you are buying into the too scummy to be scum idea that Boon likes to perpetuate. I’ll say this as plainly as I can. Boon is either scum, or bad for town. Either way he needs to die at somepoint.-
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In post 868, Varsoon wrote:
Dude literally posted over 1000 words of analysis on each player.
Doesn't matter--contributed effort allows for players to be more clearly read and lets the game move forward. It's pro-town even if it isn't alignment indicative.
Scum have information. Town have to find it out. He's willing to take risks by forming his own reads rather than YOLO-swaggin' into the game. The fact he's scumreading several players but not all of them feels genuine.
He hasn't even cast a vote as far as I am aware other than on Boon (and he explained this one fairly well)--in fact, he's voiced hesitance about joining the Konowa wagon.
BBT, I'm starting to wonder if you throwing flame like in the bolded is you just being incapable of reading the game or you literally being this bad at playing scum.
Either way, you've either got a terrible grasp on the game or you're really transparent when you're misrepping.
:l
Move BBT back up the list.
I'd be cool with a BBT, Boonskies, or Konowa lynch.
No, 'words' do not equal analysis. It was a running commentary on what had happened in the game withvery littleactual analysis. Of course it matters, you just tried to town-read him because of the effort he is putting in. Which is a ridiculous reason to town-read someone.
Hey, maybe we should lynch the players with the least posts and make our way up the list day by day? I'm sure we'll catch scum that way because there is no way they put as much effort into the game as town and therefore will have less posts. Or should we do it by word count? Tough choice. /sarcasm.
You keep saying the same thing like it is a fact. Recap. Little analysis. Show your work or you do not get credit for this point.
And Jesus, no one ever suggested that activity is the sole reason to give/get a town read. Don’t be so hyperbolic.
In post 882, Varsoon wrote:Why would you be killing Zebulin?
VOTE: Boonskiies
I have a TOTALLY 100% SCUMCLAIM FROM KONOWA
and I'm willing to chase this instead.
Because you're scum? Opportunistic vote change.
More buzz words.
In post 883, Boonskiies wrote:I always do totally random/make people question their town reads kills as scum. Anyways, I'm getting kind of irritated and done with this game, especially because I'm not important at all in this game, so Imma join the wagon.
VOTE: Boonskiies
Boon, I don't know wtf you're doing but can you stop now? Thanks.
Scum reads Xiao when he selfvotes. Boon does it and he gets gently redirected. Guess you saw this selfvote as coming from town?
In post 1001, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:In post 961, Formerfish wrote:Well that escalated pretty quickly. I fail to see any reasoning (actual reasoning, you know not the bullshit buzz words you're slinging in my direction). And find it quite funny that you vote me when I refuse to answer your line of question when you are in turn refusing to out your reads, which is pretty anti town when you think about the denial of information. Its especially bothersome that the info you refuse to provide is something you've made more than one observation about when done by others. Personally, I'm am waiting with bated breath to see what this mastery of reads list must look like. I imagine a font like none I've seen before, and composition that would make 14th century French poets weep with envy.
Vote BBT
Let's fucking do this.
Well, I mean, you can clearly see I disliked your entry post for one. Then, you proceeded to completely stop the discussion we were having. I fail to see the town motivation in that.
Yes, I did see you throw some pot shots at my posts, must have missed where you broke them down to show scum motivation, or IIoA, or why you didn’t like them in any kind of detail. And the reason that I broke off our conversation is because in trying to sort you I realized that you hadn’t provided a reads list, something that would be very helpful to me in determining your alignment. When I asked you about this, you blew me off, and then eventually said that you weren’t providing one because you wanted to keep them close to the vest. What is the town motivation in that?
It's good to see that OMGUS is still a thing as well. Votes should be piling on Fish now, that would be great.
Again, OMGUS is a thing, my vote was not OMGUS.
In post 984, Formerfish wrote:I do find it a bit scummy to shit on everyone's reads and to then turn around and refuse to give your own. Especially I'm the way that he did it. Calling mine pedestrian but refusing to devulge his advantgaud reads in the same breath basically.
Added to all the shit hea been saying towards me = a scum read. I'd say Boon BBT team for the win.
So, this is you admitting you're voting me because I voted you, right?
Is that all you got out of that bit? No.
In post 1003, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:In post 1002, Formerfish wrote:
Well, if you ignore everything else I've said, squint real hard and then shove your head up your own ass I could see how scum would come to that conclusion.
But no. I won't admit to that because its not true and its a blatant attempt to discredit me, you know that bullshit tactic you've been trying against me since I came into the game.
So do you consider every return vote to be OMGUS? Cause I usually think of naked, knee jerk reactionary votes as OMGUS, but votes that come after an a) attempt to dance with the pretty bitch only to be turned away like the start of every 80's teen movie, b) an attempt to show scum motivation, and c) alarming feeling of deja vu from that last time I saw you in action, doesn't read as much of OMGUS as you are trying to play at.
Would you like to throw any other buzz words me way inaccurately for me to disprove?
Everything else you have said? Please, elaborate on why you are voting for me.
I disagree with some of your views, most notably that there was no scum on the Thor wagon, and feel like town should be more cautious when approaching things like this to avoid confbias. I feel like you are handwaving the content I have provided by saying it’s IIoA and not actual content. I don’t like the push you made on Xiao and the cheap shots you throw out there. I see scum motivation in your actions, so you are getting scum read by me. When I tried to engage you on issues and get a reads list out of you you shut that down without even giving an explanation, and then when I said that I had an issue with that you voted me. What great scum motivator is there behind asking for you to provide reads, and then saying that I didn’t like that you wouldn’t?
I consideryourvote OMGUS because I do not see your case on me. Don't act like I'm the one stopping the discussion because that is flat out untrue. You've attempted to show scum motivation for who?
Still not OMGUS. Keep saying it though, I’m sure your buddy will pick up on this eventually and start backing you up.-
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Don't meta read me. Nobody ever gets it right.
Well, shucks. You know the last person who told me I couldn’t do meta I ran a fucking train on and successfully lynched scum. So I am going to do what I like to do.
So other than meta, your stopping of our discussion (how does this make me scum?) and my refusal to provide reads (how does this make me scum?), do you actually have any reason to be voting for me? (Note: OMGUS is not a reason. You should stop doing that.)
See above.
p.s.- Still not OMGUS, nice to see you really sticking with the accusation though.
You called Varsoons vote on Boon opportunistic. Can you explain how this vote was not the same thing? I do know you mentioned disdain for Drake earlier, but you waited until there was 3 votes on him already to move your vote over.
So if someone votes the way that you want them to, it’s not opportunistic. If they vote a way that you don’t like then it is opportunistic. Got it.
In post 1093, Formerfish wrote:Doing shit with the family day. I'll catch up soon.
Hi Scum.
Was there something particularly scummy in that you found in this post, or is this just you not so subtly reminding everyone about your read on me?
In post 1095, Drake Crusader wrote:
Acryonnull town - He seems to want to scumhunt. He has posted good content that I did actually enjoy reading for an incite on his thinking. Appears to be town in nature will have to see what he thinks about last few pages when he comes back. Until then he is null town slot.
BBTnull scum - Has played town pretty much all game as well. The only issue I have is the beginning of the game when he focuses Thor with vicious intent. Could be a case where he turned in his scum buddy for ult town cred. That and the feeling that he is holding quite a bit back earns him the null scum on my list.
Boonscum - The hammer! The self vote. The way he tries to appeal to the town to make them feel bad for his mistakes. Good chance for him to flip scum in this game. I know im not the only one seeing this connection.
He is now my official top read. I only wanted to play with the Konowa wagon for a little bit. Still feel he is scummy but, Boon has more chance of flipping then Konowa will.
These two posts are also reasoning for why im against him.
In post 904, Boonskiies wrote:I've never self-voted as scum before.
Using meta as a defense is honestly stupid anymore. It can be fabricated. I see this as " Look at me! I played a games where I self-voted and wasn't scum. Im such a pro!"
In post 941, Boonskiies wrote:I also don't think so. If I had a scum partner I didn't want on my team, I wouldn't bat an eye about bussing them. I'd go through with it for my own town cred, so they don't mess it up for me.
This post relates back to the idea I had with BBT. As boon stated he was on both wagons (thor and my own) along with the fact that killing off his partner would buy him town cred for the rest of the game. This would also assist him in the smoothing out of any mistakes he would make during the game itself.
FormerFishtown ( I left out the others in his slot.) He appears town in nature and wants to go out and scum hunt. Kinda like him and I believe what he says.
KillerJesternull town - Haven't really found a home for him let. I shall later on. Seems town in nature as well. Don't really see any points to latch on to and dissect.
Konowascum - Very aggressive and appears to be vengeful his posts don't sit well and I could see him easily wanting distance from thor. He is a player who seems to go independently with winning this for mafia. This decision is based mostly on gut.
orcinus_theoriginalnull - Kinda scum like. Kinda town like. He dances between the stances with his posts and is not afraid to push or turtle up. He is and will most likely be a hard read I will have to come up with a spot for him aswell but, for now he is on the radar.
Varsoontown - An angry townie actually. He just rages and then goes back to playing with his toys again. A lot of posts with a lot of content. After rereading his stuff I have concluded that he is not the scum I thought he was and instead has been moved to town for now. Posted some helpful advice in between his outbursts.
Xiao Longnull to scum - The self vote on himself is something that I view as a scum tell. Salty as can be and a touch rash. He just appears to have blinders on this game and looks like it will continue throughout. Kinda reminds me of a toned down Varsoon.
Zebulintown - Helpful, appears to be honest and on point. Feel very good he will flip town at endgame.
I near enough disagree with every single read here. More than happy to lynch you.
Here we go again.
Fish has barely done anything and he gets a solid town-read[…]
Do you get tired rehashing the same baseless shit time and time again?
In post 1097, Drake Crusader wrote:
But, at last I shall confess. I am your normal town member. Eh you can vote me off tho.I am not much of a help I figure and one less town will help make mafia's job easier.At least I got that list up. This game has been frustrating to say the least.
I have a real problem seeing the bolded coming from a town mindset. Why would town want to make mafia's job easier?
This is one thing we agree on. The statement is weird.
BBT, I guess my scum read on you comes down to the way you choose to interact with me. I don’t see you trying to sort me, I see you with your mind being made up since the first time I posted. I see you posting with confbias up one said and down the other. A lot of what I don’t like about you could come down to a difference in playstyle, but I just see little to no town motivation in the way you play. And with re: your reads on Boon v. Drake. Boon is a town read for you (somefucking how) so anyone who speaks ill of him you try to throw a scum tag on using opportunistic as your reasoning. Drake is someone you have a scum read on (with some reasoning) and are buddying up to everyone trying to get the lynch.
What I don’t get is this. You could easily make a case for scumBoon based off bad play, but you are handwaving it away. Drake makes a couple bad posts and you are drinking beers, tying the noose and riling up your redneck buddies for a night on the town. What is the difference between the two?-
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In post 1122, orcinus_theoriginal wrote:my heart does not believe in this wagon.
Forget about your heart, what does your head say about the arguments I am making.-
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In post 1172, Zebulin wrote:Intent to hammer Drake
48 hours so we can use the remaining days
I feel like I've explained why earlier and his recent posts show 'scum/town that doesn't care' and neither attitude helps town. That 1108 literally asks to be lynched. I'm also worried that the wagon is getting apathetic and just forgetting about itself (like how the boys forgot Simon inLord of the Flies, just stopped caring).
Also, Formerfish, I was waiting for Goblin's replacement to come in and answer questions before voting the guy, because I assumed Goblin couldn't/wouldn't play Mafia. The replacement, you, played townish so I didn't see the need to vote.
This pings me as all kinds of bad.
First, Drake isn't even at l-1, so hammer isn't exactly in play right now.
Second, is saying he literally asked to be lynched which is a misrep of what he actually said. What Drake is doing is falling on his sword to get a lynch through if that's what needs to happen.
Third, no one has forgotten about the wagon or that we have a deadline coming close...ish. We still have 4 days, which is plenty of time to switch gears if needed.
re: Goblin- with me replacing in you've lost all interest, so it seems, in trying to sort me and have given what seems like a town hand wave. Am I not an easily mislynch know and you've lost interest in persuing me?-
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No he said that if it came down to it and he was going to be the lynch then so be it.
And stop with the small text. Sack the fuck up and say what you need to say. We noticed that you called for a hammer on Drake when he was at l-2. Know what else I noticed, you actually put him at l-1 without announcing it. And I know that we are here talking about it so why would you have to, right? Because it'd be the town thing to do.-
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In post 1203, Boonskiies wrote:I don't see stating Intent to Hammer is scummy at all.
I figured maybe you would since as town you hammer without saying a thing. Hey Boon, do I have enough of your attention to answer some questions I've already asked twice?
What were you thinking when you first tried to excuse your hammer on trolling? And then when that didn't work you tried to get us to believe that you may have been a compulsive hammerer?
How do you reconcile the fact that when you were being run up you begged people not to hammer yet, but you see nothing anti-town in the way you quick hammered Thor.
I look forward to your succinct answers forthwith.-
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Kono is it just me or were you really active when you were being run up, then you disappeared when your wagon fell apart? Next few posts are 1. fluff about varsoon, 2. Telling Drake to claim, 3. Begging for a lynch, and then 4 days later 4. Man times are hard, I'll read and post... tomorrow.
We are what 2-3 days away from deadline, you've been MIA while lazily pushing a halfassed lynch, and you are promising content... later.
Fuck that.
Vote Mono-
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