Mini 1632 - Zar's Holiday Bash - Mardi Gras Showdown - Over!

[Aeronaut]

VOTE: TSO

You know what you did

[Aeronaut]

VOTE: silverspawn for reasons....

Were you planning on mentioning that that's L-1?

[Aeronaut]

VOTE: silverspawn for reasons....

Were you planning on mentioning that that's L-1?

Strike that, I forgot which game I was in

[Aeronaut]

SilverSpawn, why have you changed your vote 6 times in two pages?

Like are those people scumreads for you are are you just arbitrarily voting?

[Aeronaut]

*silverspawn, why have you changed your vote 6 times in two pages?

Like are those people scumreads for you are are you just arbitrarily voting?

Oh, is that not something you do on this forum? throwing with votes around in the beginning?

and, obviously none of them was serious.

It is we call it rvs random voting stage and areo should of known that.

RVS has been over for a bit IMO. I just don't see the point of having six RVS votes.

[Aeronaut]

Phone posting right now, but I don't like that Gamr is trying to sneak in a soft claim there. I don't know why he'd to do that so early as town, so that's worrysome. Will look more when I get home

[Aeronaut]

RVS has been over for a bit IMO. I just don't see the point of having six RVS votes.

being afraid of voting is a scummy.

I don't think I ever actually saw this

This post irks me. The logic is WIFOM. The fact that you are conscious of a thing that is considered scummy, and are purposely taking steps to avoid doing it, shows me that you're being very careful about what you say, IE fabricating posts.

Fabrication is bad.

VOTE: SilverSpawn

[Aeronaut]

@vincero, 81: Examples, please.

@Everyone: I am in favor of pushing one of these wagons forward to L-1 and then beyond as needed. However, people are going to need to commit to one or the other by voting, and back up that vote with why you are agreeing to that wagon. I know clues are sparse and tells are not the most solid, but a history will help us better read each other and find scum.

I would like to see more people weigh in on geraintm and silverspawn, and if there is no support for them, I want a stronger case for someone else.

Why not make your own case instead of asking us to make one for you?

[Aeronaut]

Zar, I need to go V/LA until saturday

I should still be able to post like once a day probably, and I'll be keeping up with the game, but I'll be pretty caught up with family being over until then.

Just a few things of note:
1. The Dude / Kuribo, pissing match bores me.
2. Garmr following behind Kuribo like a puppy dog. I liked it better when you had your own opinions
3. Voting somebody because they MAY be an alt of a player you dislike is stupid and anti-town.
4. TSO isn't being overly helpful. He's just sort of there adding little comments to everything that happens.
5. Voting someone just because they piss you off is stupid. I haven't found too many of Kuribo's posts very helpful, with the exception of #135, #138, and #158. The rest either fluff posts about how great he is at Mafia, or telling TDA how moronic he is. At least there's SOMETHING, but eh.
6. Will look at what TDA is talking about regarding Garmr/Reinoe tonight.

Sorry, will come back to this when the family goes to bed. Gotta entertain

[Aeronaut]

And also, disregarding your most recent one, and a post apologizing for posting about the wrong game... And hell, let's disregard your original mistake about l-1 since it was "the wrong game"

You seem to feel I have only 3 posts of substance while you yourself have only five. I've been in the game for about twelve hours. What's your excuse?

I don't care about how

much

you posted at all. I care that half of your posts are just useless banter. What's the point of your first three posts, really? Is that actually adding anything? You're very clearly voting for TDA just because he's antagonized you, and you've even stated that you're not going to consider his side of the argument. How much is that really helping us?

[Aeronaut]

They're not useless banter, do you not understand that I only get reads on people by interacting with them and judging how they respond?


The first three posts are just a little bit of fun role playing, I do it all the time when I replace into a game, thank you, fuck you, bye.

Answer my goddamn question: why did you not consider it content when I 100% seriously said one of you four was scum?

Because you didn't say why, you just said it. And then you voted for someone who wasn't even on that list a few posts later.

[Aeronaut]

Aero
BP
Howl
Serra


At least one scum among those four

No, I just thought it was interesting that three of your four top scumreads just happened to be people who'd posted next to nothing. Seriously, BP has made one RVS vote, and HE'S in your top four?

Explain to me how BP is scum, please. This isn't hypothetical. I'm really genuinely curious. All this is is a reads list without any weight.

In fact, how is Serra there if he hasn't made a post yet? And Howl's made like three?


P-edit: But under that umbrella, you can just say anything you do was just for reactions.

[Aeronaut]

Everything everyone does is for reaction in some way or another



And you're absolutely right: there's one scum at least among those four because of their activity level: scum teams almost always have one member that is posting way, way less than the others. This, combined with the replacements in some of those slots leads me to believe at least one of them is the Designated Lurk of the scum team
That's the logic behind it, though honestly in a game this size, you could pick four names at random and have a high probability of naming at least one scum.

And I never said that was my top four. Simply predicting at least one scum among them

Alright, that makes sense to me. Interesting way of thinking about it.

[Aeronaut]

Got a little downtime.

Going to be honest if tda is ap his probably town because he votes people for the weirdest reasons and I don't understand his cases so I try to look for if he believes it or not.

Alright, It's time to stop basing reads off of the meta from a player who MAY be the owner of that alt. Meta-reading is already flimsy, but metareading a possible alt for it's possible owner is flimsr-er.

You want to know whats getting to me I'm going to get this off my chest. When I'm fucking hunting scum I get some ****wit blocking my interrogation and then I start getting scum reads because this **** wit blocked my investigation. It irritates to NO FUCKING END. Then his up himself saying shit well i be confirmed town when garmr flips scum well guess what **** wit I'm going to flip town.

I just want to use my one shot and then tomorrow I don't care if I get lynched.

VOTE: Garmr

This is fabricated.

Softclaiming this early into the game is so silly and anti-town that it makes my eyes bleed. This is no town motivation for this. You have two votes against you and you're already sneaking in little "I can't be lynched" and "I just want to use my shot". If you were really a PR, there's no way you'd just make it blatenly obvious like that, because it just sets you up for the scum to be like "Lol, let's shoot this guy".

You, however, don't seemed to be concerned with that.

The other thing I don't like about this post is the buildup. You've been relatively calm this whole game, and suddenly you just come in throwing around F-bombs and being all angry, and WHOOPS softclaim. You're trying to give off that impression, that you're just SO PISSED OFF that you've had enough and just HAVE to let us all know not to vote you, because you have a super-secret-power-role-that-totally-exists.

Fabricated.

My personal belief is that there simply isn't enough stuff in this game to draw any conclusions about anyone based on meta yet.

Regarding Reinoe, someone in the Ridiculous Mafia game said that he intentionally plays differently each game to make meta-ing him difficult. Assuming that's true, I don't think this won't be a useful approach in reading him. That was one of the reasons I called Garmr out on his read in the first place.

I can vouch for this, he's different in every game I play with him. It's obnoxious but I guess effective. He even posted a thread about it at one point I think.

-----------

After the two Garmr posts above, I ISO'ed him and realized that most of it is "Vote Ger, trust me he's scum" without much else. That's pretty bad, but what really pissed me off here was this:

VOTE: geraintm

I gave you some time even thorough it wasn't a complete day but 14 hours is enough.

Seriously?

That post there is showing me that Garmr was never going to listen to what Geraintm had to say. He's just impatient for a lynch to happen.

-----

Other notes:
1. I looked at what TheDude is talking about as far as the meta thing, and I don't really get what you're trying to prove with that.
2. I feel like TSO would be making more of an effort if he were scum, but I've only been in games where he's been town, and he acted very similarly. look more into that at some point

[Aeronaut]

Aaaaand blacklisted. I have no respect for people who self hammer. That was stupid.

[Aeronaut]

UNVOTE:

I'm torn about whether he's bullshitting or not. I'd personally like to see what he does tonight / tells us tomorrow because it could tell us a lot about the rest of the players in the game.


I'm still hosting and gift giving for a few more days, but I've been keeping up with the game mostly. Just a few thoughts for now.

Something about Serra's vote and than immediate reaction bothers me.

About the serrapaladin/reinoe debate: I really disagree with the case on reinoe. What he did seemed genuine; I mentioned that I had played before, he asked me for a link, I gave two links, why not read them. This may not be the most efficient way to scum hunt, but it's certainly not horrible. I guess the idea is that he's actively lurking, but eh.

Why read them over the last game of anyone else in the game? Do you think he's actively looking for conclusions that will help him determine your alignment here?

Serra's is somewhat questionable.

-

She was initially town reading Silverspawn

based on him being new, but when it was pointed out to her that he's not new, she brushed off his experience as not mattering much.

No? Nothing he'd posted before 307 suggested anything but him being a newb. If you want, we can call this "newb with respect to this site's meta", but to all intents and purposes, that's the same. I've not seen offsite meta used effectively, and reinoe and silver's early exchange was enough to discourage me from looking into his games.

Her defense of Gera makes little sense to me. There's nothing in his defense that I wouldn't expect him to say as either alignment, and

it's missing what I would have expected to see in it if he was town

.

Which is?

thinking that kuribo is probably town

I get the impression he's actually trying to balance critical reading and trying to get reactions to his rage. If his first game back is scum, it'd be the easiest thing for him to just slip back into old habits. I don't like that you just assume I couldn't possibly have a justified townread on kuribo... :/

I'm an cop role of sorts so scums def on my wagon jumping at the chance to lynch me.

Trying to avoid an immediate cc, huh? There is absolutely zero town reason to claim a 1-shot investigative, and not say what it is.

VOTE: Garmr

There are many things I hate about this post. For one, the entire post is about other people, and at the end you awkwardly squeezed in "You're reasoning makes no sense I'm voting you". That mixed with the explanation being the pretty similar to my case just a bit reworded makes this vote look very opportunistic.

UNVOTE:

I'd be fine with getting rid of TSO and Garmr.

Tell me why you'd be fine with getting rid of them, because I'm not understanding the real point of this post.

VOTE: reinoe

Reinoe, also known as Plan B

I also don't like silverspawn's recent posts. Or exakt.

What don't you like about them?


I'll be full fledged back on Saturday evening, but I can answer questions/react to game events best I can until then.


P-edit: @EXAKT: Townies don't make gambits. What about the possibility that he's telling the truth? And, if he were scum, and TSO and Garmr were both alive tomorrow, that doesn't clear them as town necessarily, for the reason you just said, that it could easily be scum doing it and we wouldn't know. It's only useful when we can verify Garmr's role.

[Aeronaut]

I'm a few pages behind, will be catching up

[Aeronaut]

Ok, V/LA is over. Here we go.

TSO-

After rereading his action to me I think his most likely town the way he reacted to my hider claim seemed natural to I don't want to hide behind anymore. His argument with kuribo also feels like a town lean.

I find this hard to believe. A few pages ago you were dead set on TSO being scum no-matter-what, and now you're just doing a 360 after rereading?

Madona-

I liked madonas post 272 and the way madona reacted my claim this slots town.

What do you like about that post?

Aero- Aero has been silent while his been active in other places. This could be to the toxic state this game has been in.

Then again I have been reading/hearing the trash his being saying about me out of this game.

His latter responses have picked up my opinion of him alignment wise.

What are you talking about? I wouldn't talk about anybody out of game?

geri- I had a look at his scum game in mini 747 and it was nothing like this one. He don't usually play like this and I'm just going to assume it's lack of interest.

You can't really base someone's meta off of one game. That one game and how it turned out should have no real impact on your opinion of him in this game, it should be a set of games where he acts similar as scum.

ES/NS- could be scum but they believe in what they are saying. If i disregard the anger he has done anything ns wouldn't as town or scum I know he has a reputation for being head strong (not meaning this as a insult) with his death tunnels and stuff.

It's not Notscience. What do you think of Exakt now that you know that?

Scum

Vince

-

Vince has been extremely scummy this game.

BP is vincero's buddy.

Awful quick to try to make accusatory connections isn't it?

But not wrong it seems.

And Reinoe is town.

Not sure why you're tunneling me, trying to start a bandwagon based off of nothing in RVS? And how could you know who is town unless you're scum?

He seems extremely jumpy over such a small push.

post 467]467[/url]
Seems to be saying a whole lot of nothing just to vote the wagon that's picking up steam.

Okay, I've gone over the possibilities of Garmr being/not being a Hider. I've concluded that if we lynch him today, we lose the possibility of learning more about TSO, but we still retain the power to lynch him D2. If both die then it's moot. If TSO survives and Garmr dies, then we lynch TSO D2. If both survive, then we lynch Garmr D2. No matter what, we get either a confirmed scum kill (TSO) or my strongest scumread dies (Garmr). For now, I will UNVOTE: Garmr, on the understanding that he will most likely die either N1 or D2 anyway. With that being said, I will now VOTE: reinoe for his sheeping of the geri wagon when there wasn't anything there to sheep off of.

This shows he understand the concept of why it would be better to keep me alive and how it benefits him by eliminating two of his scum reads.

yet

Yeah never mind, fuck waiting. garmr dies now. VOTE: garnr

This goes against what would benefit him most as town but if he was scum he doesn't have to risk any surprises outing out a scum buddy and if tso is town he is still viable to lynch if I'm dead.

VOTE: vincero

Silverspawns

play has been very odd this game It has a slight scum lean.

This is pretty interesting. In the first post, Vincero is showing us his elaborate thought process behind unvoting, why it's better for the town, etc, but then directly contradicts it by revoting Garmr.

Vincero, what was this about?

Wait how many people think I'm fake claiming I mean I been pretty much setting up who I would hide behind since the day started and dropped numerous hints before the claim.

I think it's possible you're faking it. Your leadup seemed fabricated, your self hammer seemed (and was) fake, etc. However, it doesn't make sense to lynch you today, because you'll provide valuable information i we keep you until tomorrow regardless of your alignment.

I'm a few pages behind, will be catching up

While you're catching up...

What is your opinion on Madonna? You've mentioned her once in post 88 and that's it.

Also it looks like you haven't mentioned vincero or ac1983 yet. What are your thoughts on them?

ACFAN is null to me and vincero is still leans scum.

Vincero is null leaning town for me. I liked his catchup post, and most of his posts after that seem genuine to me, except for his vote on Reinoe. That vote was for something pretty early game and seems weird and off to me.

Waiting for ACfan to post more for me to really get a read on him. Guess I'd say Town from the first ten or so.

Madonna is a different story.

Hi, all. I hope all those horrible rage posts decrease from here on out, and while I am sure some information lies within all that dreck, a lot of it is WIFOM, whiny bad play, and even a flip would not help much extract and separate the real and unreal from that mess. For those of you who flipped out: I wish you were dead, so I need not bother with you and your spoiled ISO. All of you get a scumlean/read for it, so thanks a lot if you are town because you helped muddy the waters, and no one should be able to claim they must be town due to caring so much they rage posted.

The early claims were bad too, which are both Garmr and kuribo if memory serves. However, that is bad, not scum, as I believe the context of kuribo being a rager wanting to throw down works, and even if I disagree with Garmr's context, he can still perhaps provide some information for Day 2.

So, page 27. Have we put

anyone

to L-1 yet? The last vote count at 513 suggests otherwise, and we should amend that.

I know I see a Garmr vote today as a waste. I would say TSO is a waste too since that is who Garmr wants to investigate, but here is a crazy idea to all of his nay-sayers: if we distrust him, why not all lay in and give him a target? While it is still up in the air whether Garmr accepts this, the idea is that his ability can be spent in a town-approved manner, instead of him setting up who he targets and possibly how he explains himself the following Day. That is an idea I will put out there, but I am personally fine with his own (probably screwed) investigation. But anyways, I am still not up for a Garmr or TSO lynch, and despite kuribo's harsh words and early claim, I like the scumhunting I saw, so that is a no from me too.

This post looks extremely fabricated to me. It's like reading off a Christmas card or an English essay or something; every word chosen carefully. Someone had mentioned that you've done this before, but this post in particular irks me. You say "let's get someone to L-1 already"

without actually mentioning a candidate

for that. Sure you say who we *shouldnt* lynch today, but you aren't personally trying to take action, here. You're posting to say "I concur", without really trying to get anything done.

And this is pretty much been like this the whole game. So, maybe it's time you got a little bit of pressure, huh?

VOTE: Madonna

You've voted for Vincero because you "thought he needed more pressure", yet you didn't really ask him anything or interact with him after that, and you didn't call him scum. So, is he scum in your opinion?

Who are your top two scumreads? who are your top two townreads? And why?

Is anyone townreading Madonna either?

I was before he/it/she tried to monopolize me

I would have a hard time not lynching from this list today.
gera
silver

acfan

Viscera

I'll work out my favorite soon.

Why is ACfan scummy to you? you haven't mentioned him one time before or after this post.

What is your read on TSO?

null to slight scum.

Why is that?

I think it's time for everyone who is townreading Serrapaladin to explain that townread. His ISO is fucking garbage.

What's your case on SerraPaladin? If you've posted all of it already, link me.


If I missed something let me know. Family and etc. is gone now, so I should be able to put full effort back into this game.

[Aeronaut]

Aero- Aero has been silent while his been active in other places. This could be to the toxic state this game has been in.

Then again I have been reading/hearing the trash his being saying about me out of this game.

His latter responses have picked up my opinion of him alignment wise.

What are you talking about? I wouldn't talk about anybody out of game?

You think I'm a bad player.

If it makes you feel any better, I also consider myself a bad player. Better phrase would have been "experienced" player. I apologize.

Regarding why I voted reinoe after moving from garmr: At the time, my order was garmr > TSO > reinoe > TDA. Since garmr and TSO were likely nightkill targets, my next highest vote would be on reinoe. There it was placed. Regarding why I re-voted for garmr: I thought I made this clear, but it is my opinion that having a toxic game environment is just as bad for scumhunting as if there was a scum player, and his bursts of rage do nothing to help the town. Call it a policy lynch if you want, but garmr IS my highest scumread at the moment anyway.

Is it a policy lynch or is he scum? You're still waffling.

Right here is garmr misrepping me about as hard as is possible. Can we lynch this scum?

In what way has he misrepped you?

I'm not selectively ignoring anything. I'm blanket ignoring 424 because I have no interest on getting into a quotewall war, as they tend to be ignored and not lead anywhere, and none of your comments showed an objective reading of my posts.

Here's serrapaladin flat out refusing to go into any details on anything. Again. Contentless garbage and when called on it he tries dodging.

Yea, I'm pretty sure most people are ignoring the quotewall war, actually. I decided to read through it, and while I agree on some points, I don't really agree on a lot of others. That whole post could have been summed up with "Serra is scum because he's being vague" and then one or two examples. There's no need to have endless walls of text because nobody is reading them but you and Serra.

Not even gonna read any of that by reinoe. Again, if it makes sense to you guys, rather than just being a few selective misinterpretations of my posts, please lynch me.

While I stand by the above, you should really be reading and responding to posts made about you, IMO. Yea, it's walls of words, but you could easily just explain your reasoning on a few of them and move on. Making the blanket statement of "I won't be replying to you any more" isn't helping anybody.

Basically, on Reinoe vs. Serra, I think that their both being unhelpful, and I don't think either of them are really doing much scumhunting of the other players. I do agree with Reinoe a bit that Serra has been very vague with some of his posts. Keeping that in mind.

The case reinoe made is clearly strong, and I liked serra even before that. We should absolutely lynch him today.

[/quote]
Do you mean you like Serra for a lynch? Otherwise I don't understand this sentence.

@ reinoe
How about we bargain you don't think vince is town right how about I hide behind serra if you lynch our mutal scum read today?

I'm fine with whomever you choose to hide behind.

My scumreads are...

serrapaladin, vincero,

geraintm,

silverspawn.

SCUMREAD OBLITERATED!!!!

Why? What did he do that's so spectacular?

Willing to lynch {vincero, Madonna} happily today.

Day 1, Votecount 10

Garmr (2):

EXAKT Science, vincero
[..]

vincero (2):

Madonna, Garmr

So you are thinking scum can either be me or vincero, for whom I have been voting for quite some time? Alright, but you should follow that up by jumping on my wagon for vincero or just me, because saying you are for vincero or Madonna and still voting elleheathen is something.

I'd like it if you answered the questions I asked you in my last post. They weren't rhetorical.

Phone posting...

Right here is garmr misrepping me about as hard as is possible. Can we lynch this scum?

Garmr is scum...

Unfortunately a scumteam would be willing to actually back him in a he-said/she-said situation.

Garmr isn't scum but the scumteam would follow him...

Excuse me? When precisely did I say that garmr isn't scum? Oh right, nowhere. Garmr, reinoe, TSO, possibly TDA scumteam if there's 4.

Right here, actually.

Right here is garmr misrepping me about as hard as is possible. Can we lynch this scum?

So is he scum, or is he not? What the hell is he? You're changing your mind every post.

[Aeronaut]

Excuse me? When precisely did I say that garmr isn't scum? Oh right, nowhere. Garmr, reinoe, TSO, possibly TDA scumteam if there's 4.

What makes you think there's four?

[Aeronaut]

Alright, sorry about that.

I am going to lazily (oh, I said it) scroll through the last few pages and take umbrage with a few issues.

@Aeronaut, 792:

No one is going to see that crap in a quote wall. You guys need to learn how to communicate better online; take a Twitter class or something.

Looking at your ISO, I find your questions and answer: ask real questions. Clearly I have voted, clearly I have stated player suspicions, and clearly I have stated who I am not in favor of lynching. If reasons are unclear to you after you have read my ISO (I have, what, twentyish posts, so it is easy), then you then may ask actual questions with that hit upon particulars, instead of general incitement questions.

In your 707, after your blase questions, you also bother to quote Garmr quoting TSO about townreading me, but there is no follow-up. Did you want to clarify why that was in there; your wall was quite large, and if you missed making one point, would you like the chance to bring it up now? Perhaps Garmr's idea that I wanted to monopolize his power was something you felt was a scumread, but I address the importance that he not screw around with town in 833 and in 675 despite my "monopol[y]" suggestion, said Garmr's target is his own should he feel otherwise.

I tend to post various responses to different people in one post, instead of spreading it out.

I can ask whatever questions I like. I didn't feel as if you were giving real particulars, so I read into you a bit. Stating who you aren't in favor of lynching is fine, but stating who you'd like to lynch is much better.

I was satisfied with Garmr's answers to what I asked. TSO was an emotional vote, and decided after cooling off that it was a bad one. He liked your post because it was similar to his thinking at the time. Don't see how it can be clarified more than that. My wall was directed at Garmr and only garmr; I don't care if anyone else read it. I was not making a case on him.

If you don't think asking for you scumreads and townreads is real questioning, I don't what is.

That all being said, you've answered those questions about your reads, and your most recent posts have seemed way less fabrication to me. I also did just read the game of yours that someone quoted, and I guess that's just how you word your posts. I don't agree with your posts on me for obvious reasons, but at this time you're looking more null.

unvote

More coming soon. Looking at Vincero and Silverspawn, Im really torn on Vincero. I really liked his earlier / catchup posts, but I really didn't like some of his more recent ones. I need to look at Silver more I think to make a decision on one or the other. ISOing him today at some point

[Aeronaut]

VOTE: Vincero

-This is L-1-

Silverspawn, to me, looks like he's just frustrated newtown. I didn't really like him voting 5 times in RVS and then saying "Not voting is scummy", because that shows he was being self conscious, but the more I look at it, that could very easily come from a new town player who's playing by the book, aka reading off of "Good Town Play" in the Wiki. The replace looks more frustrated town to me, than anything.

Vincero's early/catchup posts were alright. However, his more recent posts have been contradictory. He's still pushing Garmr which I don't get; Do you not understand that keeping him until tomorrow is better whether he's town OR scum? (That goes for anyone on his wagon by the way). The thing about his push on Garmr is that he keeps flip flopping it: sometimes it's a policy lynch, other times he's scum. The self vote is what does it for me, though, I think. It comes across as scum, trying to look like town that's too fed up to even continue.

Side note: Anyone who self votes should just be modkilled. I hate that so much.

[Aeronaut]

what the hell

[Aeronaut]

Hi guys, been like half-reading, sorry. I have limited time until tomorrow night, and I had to take care of my IC game first.

Will be very present soon

[Aeronaut]

Hi guys,just finished reading through the last like nine pages.

I think Ger and Garmr are both kind of playing terrible, tbqh. I don't think either of them are particularly helping much. However, I feel like Garmr is the best lynch today. Here's why.

When I flip town what do you think will happen what would she of contributed to this game nothing. Nothing at all and that's all post are reduced to nothing.

Lets also add in the fact that her slot kuribo was the one who was pushing for a hard claim when I soft claimed instead of letting it be so we have role fishing. Then was like shit I can't lynch him today but tomorrows fair game.

The best reason to say this slot town is because kuribo quit but that's because of the tso fight not because of the actions I did. So I'm taking that as null.

Go through her iso there's no content at all.


putting kuribo and her together shows a contrast the slots scum.

VOTE: elle

How does contrast between two players in a slot mean anything?

Saying "When I flip town..." just sounds like such bullshit to me. Here, Garmr wasn't anywhere close to dying or being lynched at this point, but he's still pretending to be some sort of martyr. Like, if he were L-1, maybe, but he's not.

Kuribo was pushing, yea, but you were the one who blatantly said "Yea, I just want to use my one shot" and "I have a cop-like role". Of course he wanted a real claim at that point. So did I, but you aren't bothering to target me. If everyone were to stop voting for anyone who just said "Lalalala you don't want to lynch me because I MIGHT be important", then town would always lose.

But tbh everyone is scattered so

lynching me today isn't something I care about

I'm starting to lose interest with people still focusing on my hider claim and using it as a main case. It's not even people looking at the content I actually posted a town like this is going to lose the game.

When I look at the player list I see some inexperience with situations I have presented (looking through your games there's atleast 5 players who have never been in a similar situation who are newer.). Lynching me should be a hard lesson for you all to judge a player by the content and the motive behind his/her content (who they are pushing, do they actually believe what they are saying ect.) Instead of focusing on statistical play because that always backfires. Do you think I would bloody claim hider day 1 if I was scum. I have perfect scum win history do you think I would ruin that with a shitty claim like that. Scum have to think long term not short term and about self preservation do you think I would place my self in a desirable position to get lynched as scum -_-

I have already predicted what will happen and it obvious to see.

People are pushing their scum reads but towns so split on who to push that it would be hard to get a lynch off. Eventually it will all drop back onto me and I'll be todays lynch.

Tomorrow elle will have no content and since I flipped town she will be in a bad position the only way she will make it through is by relying on kuribo's play which he was town read for quiting. Kuribo is smart enough to know that quitting and claiming vanilla townie actually puts the slot in a great position. I also know as scum he can get angry at town the example is aircraft mafia where he gets pissed off at wayne gg and joined me in my crusade against him. At the end of the game kuribo gave wayne gg quite a verbal bashing.

Look at kuribos other action -trying to push me to full claim,going with the majority, he stopped producing content when he felt he was in a suitable position to be town read.-

She'll most likely flip scum. She is trying to hide behind me and people are refusing to see that so lynch me today and lynch that scummy girl tomorrow.

I Feel like reinoe is sticking mighty close to me through and I feel a bit uneasy. His most likely town through as he does have some good thought process's I just could be a bit paranoid.

See, in the bolded, you imply that you don't care about your lynch, however you spend the rest of the post and like ten posts after this

continuing to defend yourself.

You do care. Look at TSO. That's someone who doesn't care. You are not TSO. You wouldn't be spamming our thread with walls of words with little actual message if you didn't.

@Garmr, 1101:

Most of this is fluff, out and out. I feel a lot of it translates into AtE, wherein you proclaim helplessness, you portray your situation as something for which people are settling versus purposefully choosing, and you hypothesize about probable outcomes which anyone with half a brain (at least pretend your fellow players have that much) can conjecture. Your defense to all the flack you are getting is to try to defend your meta, which is bad because then your defense is WIFOM; having us either take things on faith or granting you leeway for scummy play is asking for a lot. That is the issue here: I do not know what your play is like in other games, but your play here has been bad/scummy, and you are getting punished for it.

That last sentence irks me because it has to be in-part true. Logical reasons to clear you aside, you are also being punished for poor play, no matter how good you are on good days. Your Day 1 here was not one of those good days. Garmr, should you legitimately be a 1-shot Hider, you played one outstandingly bad. Your softclaim was too much, your hardclaim came out in the midst of a bad altercation, your flares-up won you no patience with others, and you are trying to defend yourself with self-meta against a mix of emotional frustration and logic. Your current defense, Garmr, is not going to stop any push on you, but I also think any defense would fail, period.

Even when you get rid of my fluff i still produce more content than the average player in this game.

Why are you contributing fluff in the first place?

the really quick wagon also makes me feel uncomfortable but you know what he'll die anyway

Tbh his just null for me

but no one wants to vote my scum read (elle) and since everyone suspicious of me theyare all hesitant about jumping on my wagon.

You're voting Geri over Elle to get to night faster.

I also stand by what I said all of yesterday too. Garmr's claim was terrible IMHO. He was as obvious as possible with his soft claiming, his buildup was fabricated AF. Why would I just forget about that and assume he's telling the truth because he claims he used his shot? Now he's just spending the day going like "If you lynch me you'll be sorrrryyyyy".

VOTE: Garmr


And honestly, I don't see Ger.

Can somebody point out why you want him lynched besides the hammer?

because really, what's the scum motivation for that? Yea, it was mega-bad town play; but it's even worse scum play. I feel like scum would be all calculated and careful with their vote, especially that close to a lynch, but ger was just like "Herp-de-durrr HAMMAH TIME"

[Aeronaut]

I generally think he's scum, and have for more of the game.

Someone tell me why Ger is scum besides the hammer. I don't really feel like a policy lynch is something we should be doing at this point.

[Aeronaut]

Garmr, question.

Are you only townreading people who townread you?

[Aeronaut]

What does AC and TDB have to do with it? TBD is dead, and AC was not on your town list a post ago.

[Aeronaut]

Hi guys.

I've been at the hostpital for the last day and a half-ish. I took a tumble and hurt my head pretty bad, but I should be fine within the next day or two.

I think I'm still voting Garmr and I still stick by that. If that wagon really isn't going to happen I guess I'll look over the the game the next few days.

[Aeronaut]

No

[Aeronaut]

On page 20.

VOTE: Aeronaut

His play feels like he's just producing easy content (asking about reads on lurkers etc) things and just throwing suspicions around to see what sticks. His reaction to Garmr's claim also feels fake to me because he keeps yelling about how "townies don't pull gambits" but unvotes anyway because "it will tell us a lot about the rest of the players in the game" even though he says in the same post that it won't prove Garmr as town anyway so there's no point.

What's your point here?

I said it was better to keep him alive D1, because the people who he clears / his interactions after that gambit will give us a load of information D2, AFTER WE LYNCH HIM. However, magically, D2, suddenly nobody felt like lynching him. Hmm.

I

still

want to lynch him.

Droog, reading through your ISO, you have 100%, from the beginning, been hardcore defending Garmr as town. I'd like to know why, because I don't get your reasoning at all. You spend the whole day saying "No, we shouldn't lynch Garmr", with your reasoning being that he could just be town with shit reads. However, in 1327, you say you'd be "willing to ship to Elle, for the reasons Garmr has gone over."

So, you're dismissing Garmr under the umbrella of "He's just a bad player with bad reads", except you're willing to jump ship to Elle because you like his reasoning?

I don't get that.

[Aeronaut]

Droog, reading through your ISO, you have 100%, from the beginning, been hardcore defending Garmr as town. I'd like to know why, because I don't get your reasoning at all. You spend the whole day saying "No, we shouldn't lynch Garmr", with your reasoning being that he could just be town with shit reads. However, in 1327, you say you'd be "willing to ship to Elle, for the reasons Garmr has gone over."

garmr has shit town reads
except for the one i magically like

((i don't remember saying any of that
can you quote me so i can explain better))

Yea, no, you're not going to just ignore this.

this is what i dont get about every players garmr read
why cant gamer be town and make shitty cases?

Here, "Garmr isn't scum, his reads are just shitty"

id be willing to jump ship to elle
for the reasons garmr has gone over

Here, you're ready to sheep Garmr. Magically, his reasoning is suddenly valid to you.

Why?

[Aeronaut]

Which cases were you attacking? Because I don't see a "TSO's case is stupid, because _____" .

I see you just commenting on whats going on.

[Aeronaut]

Which cases were you attacking?

you're right
'that was me commenting on other cases'
so what

No. Answer my question.

[Aeronaut]

Here's my problem; Garmr's claim isn't verifiable. We can't know the people he cleared are town, and none of them have died. Let's be honest here; everything that Droog has done this game has been sheeping Garmr. Looking at Silver's ISO, there's little to no mention of Garmr, except for 308, and 429, in which he softdefends Garmr.

If you look at Garmr's ISO, he passes off Silver as just being newtown,

but somehow decides to hide behind Silver anyway.

Why would he hide behind someone who he reads as newtown? That doesn't make sense to me.

Here's what I think happened; Garmr get's pressure on him, gambits. He clears his scumbuddy the next day. It's possible that Elle is another teammate, but I feel like it'd be smart for them to clear a town player, and plan to kill Elle N3, show the flip, and be cleared.

[Aeronaut]

VOTE: Droog

My vote stays on you until you answer what I've asked you, please. It's a clarification.

[Aeronaut]

Yes, but those have no

weight

to them. In 649, you say he has a scum lean for you simply because he's playing "odd". That's nothing.

The last post doesn't add to your case, because

you said you were going to hide behind him first

. You had already made the decision, to hide behind this person who you "a slight scumread" on, over somebody who you had a strong one on. Why hide behind a slight scumread?

[Aeronaut]

to be fair I despise the term brony, but I'll still

vote: Garmr

for voting me for that reason

and I won't be lynched today either so yeah lol.

why not?

About reads; I don't really have strong reads, I'm used to doing cases based on meta, which I can't really do here. I did think most of serrapaladin's points were either weak or safe, so scum points for that. reinoe feels genuine, so town read there. Garmr's vote was pretty awful, but it's honestly hard to imagine that an experienced player does this as scum. most others are nullish

meta reads are bad and boring and detract from, you know, actually playing mafia. silverspawn, who do you think is scum? preferably, base your reads on things they've said in the thread rather than anything meta.

look, obviously you seem to think meta reads are silly and a distraction and don't actually qualify as real reads. That's cool, you can think that. But I happen to think pretty much the opposite, although less extreme. General tells are weak and not worth much, because different people play so differently. What is towny for someone can be a huge scumtell for someone else, and vice versa.

I kind of feel like silverspawn is just talking about stuff that he probably thinks as either alignment - I use meta, I don't like alts, soft-claims are stupid.
The only think there that seems specific to this game is his read on Serra, which he should probably be more detailed about.

This is true, but I don't have any strong reads atm. I really don't. Do you want me to fabricate reads in order to appear more towny? That would be lying. I'd prefer not to. You have very long days, I'll get more comfortable the more context I have for different players. Right now, if I had to assign scum % to every player in this game, it would all be between 20 and 30%.

Now about what's actually happening, do you guys think Garmr is the kind of player who makes all of this up as scum? He could have faked the self-hammer, and then faked his rage and fullclaim. How likely this is does of course depend on his meta, so whoever has played with him before should state his opinion.

The hider thing is silly. Look, some PR's are better targets for scum than VT's because they have dangerous powers, and some are worse targets because they are harder to kill. You say you softclaimed as hider to cause scum to shoot you so that they waste their NK. Okay, that's cool. Of course it doesn't guarantee to accomplish anything, and whether or not scum actually does shoot you just comes down to WIFOM, but I'm fine with using it as a strategy.

However, complaining about the fact that we picked up on your softclaim is just plain stupid. Of course we're gonna do that, we don't know that you're a hider. And it doesn't actually change anything, it's still WIFOM from scum's perspective. If you really wanted to do this strategy, you should have anticipated this reaction from us and react in a way that isn't full claiming. Then, in day 2, you should have come clean. On the other hand, if you're scum who planed all of it, then your actions make sense.

I'm not sure how sincere the rage is, I don't really get what in this game could have him get this upset, but again, I don't know him, people who do need to decide this.

[/spoiler]

aero silvers only mentions of garmer
are quiet scumreads
what thread are you reading

Droog, in all of those, he's defending Garmr.

There is not one post where silver calls Garmr scum. Not one.

[Aeronaut]

Which cases were you attacking? Because I don't see a "TSO's case is stupid, because _____" .

I see you just commenting on whats going on.

Went through garmr's ISO and his case on geri is absurd. That's he's tunneling so hard on it (I'm up to 279 right now) is extremely suspicious.

this is what i dont get about every players garmr read
why cant gamer be town and make shitty cases?

g literally quoted one
in the post you're asking me to explain aero

No. In the post

you just quoted

you're saying his reads suck. That's just you saying it, you're not saying anyone else said it. You're using it as a defense for him. However, then you just sheep him anyway. What's the town motivation for following the logic of someone they believe to be a bad player?

[Aeronaut]

I've always thought he was scum. I unvoted him because I figured if he was scum, then he'd have to lie about who he hid behind D2, and that would help us find his team through interaction. A similar thing happened to me in NY177, so I decided to go with it here. I'm also not the only person who did this, but you're kind of focusing on me, which is odd.

can elaborate on that game/rest of your post wen I'm not on a phone


I'll also look at Serra some more when I get home I guess. Think I had him as town though, I don't remember paying a lot of attention to him

[Aeronaut]

My point is that it felt like you were just posting easy content and then had contradictory stances on Garmr and I feel like if you were bullheaded town you would've just kept pushing the wagon considering you said "if he isn't cleared we can't trust it anyway". The way you unvoted didn't seem to match what you were saying.

I actually can't find where I say anything like what you've quoted. Find it for me.

Looking back, my main reasoning for unvoting at the time was this post, which I strongly agreed with (and still do):

because an unprovoked hider claim on Day 1 isn't a strong fakeclaim for scum

Here's why:

Garmr hides behind TSO. If Garmr dies, fuck TSO, we lynch that shit tomorrow.
If Both of them die, then the scum was forced to kill TSO in order to get a two-fer. And the rest of us don't have to watch the two of them bickering like an old married couple.
If both of them survive, we lynch the fuck out of Garmr anyway in order to confirm that he and TSO aren't playing LOL BOTH CONFIRMED type games. he flips hider, TSO probably dies N2 anyway because he's confirmed town at that point. If Garmr flips scum, really honestly then TSO could be either.

Lynching Garmr today isn't optimal play and I say that as someone who thinks his play has been bullshit regardless of his alignment

I wasn't unvoting because I didn't think he was scum, I was unvoting because it was optimal play, as I've said a few times, now. I still think he's scum, and I'd love to lynch either him or droog, because doing that either confirms two townies, or confirms at least one scum player. Why would we not want to do that?

[Aeronaut]

Also your push today is more like a conspiracy theory than something reasonable a townie would come up with, it looks like you decided to push them before actually looking at the post and never really say why they're individually scummy and are just trying to sell the duo as the scumteam in a package.

I actually have a scumread on Droog alone for a different reason, that I can't talk about right this second. Soon, hopefully

What do you think of reinoe/thor anyway? You haven't really touched on them at all which is weird considering they're sort of a big deal.

I believe the attacks on Reinoe were because of him being crazy with meta analysis and tunneling and whatnot, and having played with him a couple times, he does that a lot, either alignment. I sort of phased he and Serra out for a bit after their quotewall war, tbqh. I think I need to go back and analyze both of them now though.

I've always thought he was scum. I unvoted him because I figured if he was scum, then he'd have to lie about who he hid behind D2, and that would help us find his team through interaction. A similar thing happened to me in NY177, so I decided to go with it here. I'm also not the only person who did this, but you're kind of focusing on me, which is odd.

It's weirder for you because everybody else had a consistent opinion on the claim, whereas you seemed to waffle on it a lot within your post which looks really strange.

Look at the below posts, and tell me that they are consistant opinions.
here, where Kuribo unvotes and says nothing else,
here, where Serra unvotes, and simply says "I'd be fine with lynching either TSO or Garmr", and
here, where AC does it before he's even read what happened.

There's no way you glossed over those and decided that mine was the one that disturbed you.

[Aeronaut]

Also, what kind of interaction were you expecting? Regardless of the alignment of the person he pushed he was going to go into the day defending them as hard as he could, so how would the interactions help you?

Exactly what I've already proposed; when one of them flips, we'll either have two confirmed townies, or one confirmed scumbuddy. Until then, it's Schrodinger's cat; They're neither cleared or uncleared.

VOTE: Vincero

Vincero's early/catchup posts were alright. However, his more recent posts have been contradictory. He's still pushing Garmr which I don't get; Do you not understand that keeping him until tomorrow is better whether he's town OR scum? (That goes for anyone on his wagon by the way). The thing about his push on Garmr is that he keeps flip flopping it: sometimes it's a policy lynch, other times he's scum. The self vote is what does it for me, though, I think. It comes across as scum, trying to look like town that's too fed up to even continue.

This bugs me a lot because Aeronaut was pushing Garmr hard himself and even if it wasn't a /good/ play for Vince to have made, why was it a scummy play instead of just a misplay? I guess the self-vote thing is valid but this feels more like he was taking an opportunity to jump on the wagon overall to me.

No, I was not pushing for Garmr's lynch at that time.

Please do not misrep me.

I still thought he was scum, but lynching him D1 didn't make sense to do. Vince, on the other hand, still wanted to lynch him, which we had all sort of agreed would hurt the town.

I understand you have a lot to read, but it's a bit silly to miss that. You're suspicious of me for not glossing over things, but you're just doing it as bad as you think I am.

[Aeronaut]

Zar's gifts are getting progressively more terrifying...

Sorry for the prod, I'll be here tonight or tomorrow.

[Aeronaut]

Been p distracted, but I can come back for a bit.

@thor: why go along with the massclaim if I'm scum?

Just saying this makes it null.

So here's what I'm thinking right now.

Town
9. SB - Me
1. T S O - Mason
12. Garmr - Hider, town for balance reasons
11. droog - Clear via Garmr
10. elleheathen - Clear via Garmr

1 Town, 3 Scum
2. Aeronaut
3. Thor665
4. serrapaladin
5. ac1983fan

I don't think the way Thor has approached today was a bus, since if he was trying to distance or get credit for lynching serra I feel like he would've voted her outright. Since this means the two of them would be opposite-aligned, this leaves both Aeronaut and acfan as scum by default.

I guess there could be a Godfather depending on how it works, but after remembering that Garmr is just 2-shot it seems somewhat less likely to me? Although I'm not really sure how MS balances setups so I could be wrong so people weighing in on this would be helpful.

Let's keep in mind that this implies that you're town, which we don't know yet. this makes it more like this.

Town
1. T S O - Mason
12. Garmr - Hider, town for balance reasons
11. droog - Clear via Garmr
10. elleheathen - Clear via Garmr

2 Town, 3 Scum
2. Aeronaut
3. Thor665
4. serrapaladin
5. ac1983fan
9. SB

This is a more accurate list, because it lists the claimed PR players as town, and everyone else as the other thing. It also assumes that the three town confirmed by Garmr are indeed telling the truth, which I guess we can't know for sure yet. I need to look at the Serra / Acfan interactions a little bit, as well as the EXAKT interactions Thor, Serra, AC.

Have people never heard of bussing?

SB is too eager going for towncred?

And was TSO-mason not obvious?

I assumed it was you tbh.

I'm a VT

, by the way.

I think if we get through the massclaim and there aren't any investigative roles besides garmr, then it doesn't make sense to lynch Garmr/droog. We'll see when the time comes, though.

If that happens, then I have to relook at my options, but I think I could go with SB or ACfan. Still haven't looked much back at Serra yet, but looking back at the EXAKT slot, it really should have been lynched D2. SB today is trying a bit hard to stick himself in the town pile, when we really can't know that for sure yet IMO. Acfan hasn't been present for almost all of D2 and D3, so I wouldn't mind letting him hang either.

[Aeronaut]

I got two things i'm curious about

ONE

Who was it that said me and elle were the same faction by interactions alone. I know it's true because of my role, But I don't know how anyone would come to that conclusion with just whats going on in the thread.

TWO

@Aero
Why are you advocating for my lynch yet going for droog. If you really think me and droog are scum wouldn't it make much more sense to go for my lynch first?

Just saw this.

#1: It was Serra. Don't understand why you're pointing that out though.

#2: Why would it make more sense to lynch you?

----

Serra - VT,
Thor - VT,
Aeronaut - VT,
TSO - Mason,
Elle - VT,
SB - VT,
Garmr - Hider

Popcorn to Droog.

Haven't heard much from him lately.

[Aeronaut]

Wouldn't it not matter either way? If I were wrong, you die and flip hider, then Droog is cleared. Droog dies, flips town, you're cleared as town right?

[Aeronaut]

Wouldn't it not matter either way? If I were wrong, you die and flip hider, then Droog is cleared. Droog dies, flips town, you're cleared as town right?

Yeeeeeeh no doesn't work that way. If droog got lynched you would revert to your bs about how I'm mafia and all you would of accomplished is lynching a townie. Anyway I doubt anyone else will claim/have a role with the mason/2shothider combo.

This is correct, actually. I was thinking you're both either scum together, or town together.

Either way, if there aren't any other investigative roles, you're all pretty much cleared anyway.

[Aeronaut]

right, okay. scum is thor/sb/aero, pending droog's claim.
VOTE: thor

Why? You haven't mentioned any of them being scum or why they're scum at any point. You can't just show up and vote

[Aeronaut]

Just a headsup, Boston/the east coast is having a rediculously large snowstorm tonight-Wednesday, so I might lose my power/whatnot. If that's the case I'll try to get to a Starbucks or somewhere with wifi and keep up. I also don't think the phone service should be down, so I might be able to just phone post.

Either way, I'll still be present I think.

[Aeronaut]

?

[Aeronaut]

I just realised that serra is a he now. Oops. I think droog's stuff about him is pretty on point.

SB today is trying a bit hard to stick himself in the town pile, when we really can't know that for sure yet IMO.

The only justification I gave for me being town was "Me". How is this trying hard? If this bothers you, what do you think about serra using his alignment in order to justify a Thor suspicion?

I don't see Serra doing that.

I understand that it makes sense to use POE with yourself as whatever alignment you claim to be, however, at this point in the game, we have four claimed and UnCCed PRs, and you just stuck yourself with them as if you were ConfTown. You aren't.

I don't know if I mentioned this, but a few of the things I pointed out about your case on me make me uneasy. You were just making generalities about things that literally didn't happen, and when I pointed them out, you just kind of switched your focus to Thor all of a sudden instead of addressing what I pointed out directly.

And let's be honest here, these weren't "Aero is misrepping people", they were "Aero was pushing for Garmr after the claim, he's a hypocrite", when clearly I was not. You even acknowledged that I had unvoted and used it as an argument before that, so you knew. Or you just forgot. Or something. Either way, that looks pretty damn strange to me.

UNVOTE: Aeronaut
VOTE: acfan

I just skimmed Madonna's content over and they were hardpushing acfan before they died. Their serra townread was also back on day 1, and they didn't really mention them yesterday at all if that's relevant?

Are you implying that serra is Madonna's buddy... or... what? Madonna is dead?

geraintm (6)

:

T S O,

reinoe

,

droog

,

elleheathen

, ac1983fan, serrapaladin

ac1983fan (1)

:

Madonna

elleheathen (1)

:

Garmr

Garmr (1)

: Aeronaut

Madonna (1)

: Iknal

serrapaladin (1)

:

geraintm

Not Voting (0)

:

<3

There was defs scum on geri wagon.

Um, let's keep in mind that this is why you weren't on that wagon.

Spoiler:

You know what If i unvote geri I become todays lynch then and i rub shit in elles face when I flip town. I'm pissed she has the nerve to call me bad when she's fucking useless at least when others call me bad this game they are actually trying.

UNVOTE: geri

VOTE: elle

well now I'm today's lynch town deserves this loss.

So fuck that. Also, why are you just crossing out Reinoe? That slot is still alive.

[Aeronaut]

That leaves us with serra/areo/acfan/Iknal as possible scum Areo and Acfan the most likely to be buddies. This post seemed defensive of ac in the bolded bits (in the spoilers)

Spoiler:

Waiting for ACfan to post more for me to really get a read on him. Guess I'd say Town from the first ten or so.

I would have a hard time not lynching from this list today.
gera
silver

acfan

Viscera

I'll work out my favorite soon.

Why is ACfan scummy to you? you haven't mentioned him one time before or after this post.

This to me shows he's saying he'll guess he will put acfan into town he guesses but instantly picks up the post and asks why acfan is scum even through his been agreeing and sucking up to tda with out actually placing a see able read on tda?

I cut down the post so people wouldn't have to search for what you were talking about.
The first one: At that point, Acfan had really just replaced in, or at least really hadn't posted much besides a pretty alright (albeit safe) catchup/reads list. Before that, Howl wasn't particularly active either.

The second one: TDA was saying he had a scumread on someone who he hadn't talked about one time... That usually pings for me. If you recall, I think I said something similar to Kuribo when he did that.

Thing is, thor has played with town!me recently, so he'd know better than to scumread me for my style of play.

I misread this bit apparently. Sigh.

The wallpost was over 500 posts ago and during day 1, and they didn't really seem to push their townread on you yesterday. I don't think it's meaningful at this point.

Townread? Wasn't Reinoe scumreading Serra?

I know scum bus but this seems like a team effort it feels like they were lining up miss lynches. Acfan was lining up the reinoe lynch for today and hammered a person who he thought was townie just to do it. I don't think they expected I was a two shot hider and that's why the situation played out this way.

ACfan did not hammer yesterday. That was Serra.

Reinoe was an almost universal town read. Voting him is pretty risk free.

Because it'd have been a free mislynch?

[/quote]
??

[Aeronaut]

I don't know why I'm wasting my time with Garmr tbh

[Aeronaut]

ACfan claim please.

[Aeronaut]

UNVOTE:

I don't think Zar would leave us with just masons. He could, but it's unlikely.

@SB

Can you tell me why you opposed a massclaim? You sort of explained here

I don't see what massclaim would do for us beyond seeing if Garmr's reports are trustworthy or not (based on other PRs existing because masons + hider seems kind of strong). Are there any other claims out there?

But this doesn't make any sense. Massclaim shows us with reasonable certainty if Garmr is telling the truth, which in turn clears Droog and Elle. Throw in TSO, and that's four people that just got Conftowned.

The other thing I don't like about this post is that you seem to oppose the massclaim, but then ask if there are anymore claims? You want to know what role other people are, but don't want to reveal your own?

[Aeronaut]

Thor, what's your read on SB?

[Aeronaut]

We mass-claimed

Aeronaut - VT
T S O - Mason (w/Thedude who is dead)
Thor - VT
Garmr - Town Hider
Elle - VT
Serra - VT
Droog - VT
SB - VT

[Aeronaut]

Jesus christ, elle.

I genuinely think Titus was town. Acfan was looking sort of eh near the end of his run, but honestly that replace out looked townish to me, the way it was worded.

I was in the middle of looking through Serra, but I guess now the day is going to end. Remind me tomorrow if I'm still alive. Some things that bother me there.

I was between SB and Serra today, tbh. Leaning more towards SB.

I'm also fairly sure that Elle is town, even with that hammer. Depending on flip, it might be smart to take a closer look at the Garmr thing tomorrow.

[Aeronaut]

Sorry for that info dump, and sorry I wasn't quite present today IRL.

[Aeronaut]

Alright, scum, let's dance.

First of all, anything Garmr says is basically irrelevant at this point.

Garmr, Elle and T S O are conftown at this point. I doubt that Titus would try to expose that theory if she were a part of the scum team carrying it out.

Serra could be town after that Titus lynch, but I guess there's always bussing. I dunno there.

but really,

VOTE: Thor

I'm really thinking Thor, SB. Thor, because he was really trying to get Garmr lynched as quickly as possible yesterday, and supporting that awful theory

but SB because he just didn't want to comment on it. Not to mention, these posts still bother me from before.

I kind of figured smart scum would just claim VT anyway but I guess I should've kept it to myself until this point? My bad.

You claimed VT. You calling yourself smart scum?

I don't see what massclaim would do for us beyond seeing if Garmr's reports are trustworthy or not (based on other PRs existing because masons + hider seems kind of strong). Are there any other claims out there?

But this doesn't make any sense. Massclaim shows us with reasonable certainty if Garmr is telling the truth, which in turn clears Droog and Elle. Throw in TSO, and that's four people that just got Conftowned.

The other thing I don't like about this post is that you seem to oppose the massclaim, but then ask if there are anymore claims? You want to know what role other people are, but don't want to reveal your own?

So, yea. As for their interactions, they interacted a bit at the beginning and not much more after that. Their "argument" also seemed pretty controlled.

[Aeronaut]

No, congrats, you were right about Titus, and I wasn't. But honestly, you've thought every person in this game was obvscum at one point. Broken clock is still right twice a day

[Aeronaut]

@aero
If you attack everyone early day 1 you can get genuine reactions and then tighten your reads latter game. Also increases your odds of surviving. I knew how some people weren't going to vote me day 2 if silver wasn't scum from everyone's personalities alone so I was confident day 1 and how scum would assume i would get lynched day 2 i missed. I planned everything for the long run now thinking about what to do in every scenario and how to bait scum. It's paid off I can use all the information I got from it.

You claimed hider, so we didn't lynch you. Anybody can do that.

[Aeronaut]

I have literally answered the second part in my last post.

Yea, and I wasn't really satisfied with your answer tbh. You were rolefishing.

On the other side of things, Aeronaut has an unexplained townread on acfan here and then doesn't mention him until Day 3, where his push is still sort of a second thought.

Because ACfan came in, posted for a little bit, and then disapeared forever. I didn't say anything about T S O, Iknal, etc, because there was nothing to say.

I'm slightly more worried about Thor now after yesterday, but at the same time I think it'd be an incredibly ballsy move for scum to try and save Titus, since he was basically dead. I found the way that serra suddenly turned on him more interesting because it looked like he was trying to salvage cred after his attempt to lynch Thor failed to me.

Here's you saying that Thor might be scum, but you aren't voting him. #Buddies4lyfe

It could be Thor/Serra, or Thor/SB. Feeling even stronger about Thor/SB because of that last quote.

[Aeronaut]

@Thor, what's your read on SB as of right now?

[Aeronaut]

Yes, yes, quote wars are just great.

"Has anyone else claimed" is not the same as "people should claim". This is not rolefishing.

I think it was very possible you were trying to find out what roles had been claimed, in case you wanted to claim something different.

You're completely missing the bit where I said that it was an

unexplained

townread, rather than just outright ignoring him, so don't act like it's similar to how you treated TSO/my slot.

He'd posted not a lot, and the tone of his posts sounded slightly townish to me at the time. It was d1, I don't really care d1.

I also literally give a reason why I think he's town in that same quote. You're blatantly nitpicking at stuff here.

Yea, you gave a softdefend, talked about why he could be scum, and then said "No, he's town". That's incredibly wishy washy. You're trying to pass it off as nitpicking, but literally nothing is nitpicking at this stage. You have to look at every possible scenario.

After rereading thor it looks like he bought into titus bs and not working with a scum buddy. Combined with my previous town read of reinoe makes me feel safe that this slot is town.

You're shit at this game.

RT

[Aeronaut]

@Thor, what's your read on SB as of right now?

Considering my current read on Serra, scum.

You think both Serra and SB are scum, but you're voting for me?

[Aeronaut]

Serra, it's not like you're voting for him.

[Aeronaut]

They didn't... Thor is still alive. There's been incredible resistance to it.

[Aeronaut]

Does bussing not exist?

[Aeronaut]

Well, thor, you didn't really give any explicit indication that you'd changed your read on me, but I admit I was falsely under the impression you were still pushing me.

I was also under the impression he was pushing you still.

[Aeronaut]

"Has anyone else claimed" is not the same as "people should claim". This is not rolefishing.

I think it was very possible you were trying to find out what roles had been claimed, in case you wanted to claim something different.

So... now you're changing your initial reason for suspecting me? Doesn't seem like bullshit at all.

Nah, I'm not. I think that you were trying to get people to properly claim before you had to. By you saying "Yes, lets have a massclaim" then you could just be popcorned to.

Nah, it's a hard defend dude. It's not wishy washy because I'm definitely taking a side on the argument rather than just saying "well it could be either I guess".

No, but you're keeping your options open. Saying he's scummy, but you're not voting for him because of that ONE interaction he had yesterday..... for now.

Granted, Serra is saying the same thing, which does bother me. I think it's coming from town!Serra TBH

It looked to me like scum shot Madonna because they were pushing acfan, so I think assuming that scum shooting droog who wanted Aeronaut dead is reasonable.

Well, IIRC Droog also wanted Serra dead.

I guess I can see the logic of thor's interaction yesterday being somewhat ballsy as scum, so I'm willing to soften my stance and focus on SB and aero for a while.

His changed read on me isn't really alignment indicative since, if he's scum, he'd know it'd go into lylo anyway.

The reason I had aero as a townread for much of the game was his carelessness, starting from sloppily outting garmr's softclaim, to aggressively pushing him and droog when he knew they were town and he would have caught serious flak for being wrong. That being said, with AC flipping scum, their interaction (or lack thereof) looks bad, and Titus going hard on droog and garmr being scum would make sense if that was the strategy aero announced in their QT.

The SB slot has been scum by all previous occupants. His play since replacing in has probably been safe enough to slip under the radar were it not for PoE. His early suggestion I might be scum with Thor was awkward, and could well have been done in order to avoid bussing both of his buddies.

What was awkward about it?

[Aeronaut]

What was awkward about it?

He called thor scum. Then called me scum, without examining the consistency. Then backed off his thor read when thor commented on thor/me being scum.

The reason I've been scumreading SB since he replaced in is mostly because he's been just making generalizations or plain inaccurate accusations against me and others; His cases are flat. For example, in post 1412,1413, and 1414, I pointed out where what he said is just plain incorrect. This isn't "Aeronaut is acting scummy", it's more along the lines of making up fake quotes which arent even close to my views, or saying I was trying to lynch somebody that I simply didn't.

These are things that are verifiable.

You can literally just look back in the game. It's like saying the sky just isn't blue. Hint: It is.

He hasn't bothered responding to those things since I posted them, and tried to pass it off as a quote war. In post 1599, he says he doesn't have time to reply to me, but then replies to only a bit of my argument. He selectively replied to my case on him, with the thing he had an answer for at the time.

Mix that with some of the awfulness of the other three players in that slot, I don't see a scenario where SB isn't scum.


As far as I'm concerned, we lynch Thor today, and then SB tomorrow. I think Serra is town. Thor, on the other hand, I've played with before. I've also looked at the newbie game that Serra linked... and I just really think he needs to die today. I don't really agree with Serra and SB that he's more town because of joining up with Titus so quickly, I think that's something that scum!Thor is very likely to do. He knew titus was probably in trouble, Titus came up with that scheme, and he was trying to build momentum to get Garmr lynched before people started questioning it too much. That whole thing went down in like a few hours.

I also don't really see scum!Serra fighting back scum!Titus on that. It would have been really easy for scum!serra to just slide right in and vote Garmr, but that's not what happened. Process of elimination, that just leaves Thor/SB, which is kind of just an extra confirmation at this point. Unless something is really wonky in this game, I don't see an alternative scenario.

[Aeronaut]

So you're really trying to push Aero/SB right now, Thor?

Please, let me know when you're plane arrives back from nonsenseland

[Aeronaut]

You also are, like SB, selecting a tiny portion of my case on you, and responding to it. What, to afraid to refute the whole thing?

[Aeronaut]

@Garmr: Who do you scumread besides me?

[Aeronaut]

Alright.

Thor thinks it's Me/SB
Serra thinks it's SB/Me
I think it's SB/Thor

So we ALL think that SB is included in the scumteam. By that logic, one of us would also be scum with him, and one of us is lying and actually trying to DELAY an SB lynch.

So, if we run him up, like so

VOTE: SB

We see if he's scum or town. If scum, we lynch T. If town, you can lynch me tomorrow, if you want. I don't see a world where that happens, though.

[Aeronaut]

T = Thor. Stupid shortcut keys are stupic

[Aeronaut]

If you people really think he's scum, you won't have any problem lynching him today. If you're lying through your teeth, you will.

[Aeronaut]

No.

Town's going to lose because you refuse to see Thor as anything but purest-of-pure town. He's got you all drinking the cool-aid.

But you people don't really want to follow me there, so I'm compromising.

[Aeronaut]

What's your reaction on what I've just said, Thor?

[Aeronaut]

Or, we could all vote Aero.

[Aeronaut]

I was town, by the way.

Still think it's SB/Thor. Have fun trying to sort that shit out.

[Aeronaut]

oh

[Aeronaut]

Yea, that was legit actually. I assumed SB was voting for me when he wasn't.

Aero seems like his faking it. I know I faked it but I'm town and had everything planned.

So, by that logic, I could be town doing the exact same thing.

And lets be honest here... you planned nothing out. You're a VI who got lucky with a PR role; otherwise you'd probably have been mislynched day 1. You almost were anyway because of your excruciatingly bad play. That fact that you're under the impression that you planned anything out at all is silly. You've sat there, pointing fingers at whoever suspects you. That's not a way to win as any faction.

I had been thinking you'd been improving a bit today, but then you just went right back to telling us all about how you're the reason town is going to win, you've been planning out this elaborate scheme to trap scum, etc, that has yet to work for you.


Think about it; I'm fighting you. Who are the people appeasing you? Who are the people who've stopped saying anything about you because they need you to help mislynch the rest of us? HINT: IT'S NOT ME. It's not Serra. Why don't you look to my supposed buddy SB, and our lord and savior Thor, who are sitting there soft defending each other and watching you do their work for them?

Think about it

[Aeronaut]

I thought I posted last night but apparently not ???

I don't see why people are regarding serra's sudden shift to kill Titus as townie or anything like that. The switch came across as unnaturally sudden and he was already the leading wagon and pretty much dead, so serra's contributions were hardly necessary.

Aeronaut, do you really think that the Garmr lynch was a possibility yesterday? Aside from serra who you say could've easily gone along with it, name three people who would've seriously backed that lynch.

Sorry but I don't really have much motivation to argue with someone who's alignment is basically obvious from my point of view. If serra/Thor are scum together then gg I got completely gamed I but I think there are too many interactions there that don't fit.

In my opinion, Serra can not be scum after that. I don't understand why you continue pushing the person who outwardly opposed scum over the person who blatantly sheeped them.

I didn't say Garmr's lynch was a possibility? That was Thor who seemed to think that it was. I didn't say Serra could've gone with it. Are you just making things up? It's like you're not even paying attention. Clarify that please.

As for three people that would support it, once again, I didn't say it would go through. Thor seemed to think it would yesterday, though. Why would he sheep it so hard? He wasn't just playing around with us, he seriously was trying to lynch Garmr yesterday.

Fucking listen to what I'm saying. You can say I'm 100% scum until the cows come home, but it's not going to change much. You

still

have not replied to the majority of my case on you, and it's been since yesterday, in-game. Do you know why? Because you're going to flip scum. And then Thor is going to flip scum. And then the rest of us are going to go out for beer and strippers, while you two rot in a coffin.



@Garmr, You are confirmed town, so I'm not going to waste my time telling you about your play anymore. However, you being in the position, means you really need to be looking at all sides of what's going on, here. Look back at yesterday, the day before, etc, and make a decision. Open up your thought process, because no matter how great a player you may be, you've probably been manipulated at some point. I'd like to lynch scum today, and SB and Thor make the most sense to me today.

[Aeronaut]

I'm saying you're logic is flawed. You're saying I'm scum for something you, also, admit to doing

[Aeronaut]

Except you did it on purpose*

[Aeronaut]

No, and I never implied as such. I'm dodging nothing, and you're not really understanding the point; you basically gave a bit of reasoning, and retconned it in the same sentence.

[Aeronaut]

ok, I'm on a phone right now.

Can you give me until tonight just to clarify this shit? SB, or whoever is going to hammer, surely you can give me that.

[Aeronaut]

Well, seeing that I think you're going to regardless of what I say...

I wish to confess.

I tried to save you. I tried to save this town. All your worthless lives. I should’ve let them kill you all.
I have nothing to say in my defense. Nothing but this: I did not do it. I did not kill Madonna, TheDude, or Droog... but I wish that I had! Watching your vicious Mason die gave me more relief than a thousand lying whores! I wish I was the monster you think I am. I wish I had enough night kills for the whole pack of you. I would gladly give my life to watch you all swallow a bullet. … I will not give my life for their murder and I know I’ll get no justice here. So, I will let the Gods decide my fate...


I DEMAND A TRIAL BY COMBAT

[Aeronaut]

Serra ily

[Aeronaut]

But lets get real here.

[Aeronaut]

I'm a Vengeful

[Aeronaut]

this game's goin' till easter motherfuckers

[Aeronaut]

No, it's means I'm vengeful.

I don't joke about these things

[Aeronaut]

Make scum think twice ya know

[Aeronaut]

Figured I'd just keep calling myself a VT until they mislynched me and then just nab one, but I sort of feel like freakin em out a bit now

[Aeronaut]

I like that you got my game of thrones reference, though. You're going on my "fun people to play with" list when this game's done

[Aeronaut]

Serra, they're lynching me anyway.

[Aeronaut]

Don't get caught up in a ten page quote-war with them, it's not getting you anywhere. Just let them squabble amongst themselves and wonder what's the safest bet.

[Aeronaut]

I wish I spoke Latin. You see, my TARDIS stopped translating things for me. It's made for some awkward encounters

[Aeronaut]

I assume your Latin thingy was something along the lines of "Aero's claim is utter bullshit and he should be burnt at the stake"

Or maybe it's a RSVP your wedding? I'll have the fish

[Aeronaut]

@EXAKT: Townies don't make gambits.

This is the main one. I said this and then said never responded to it purposely; of course Town make gambits. at the time, I said it half for reactions, and half to be able to go back to later, since I wasn't really planning on revealing right away.

I also tried attacking Garmr with not much explanation for awhile to see if anyone caught on that I was hinting at knowing something.

I don't believe I ever crumbed the specific role of vengeful, but I was basically PR crumbing most of the game.

[Aeronaut]

Garmr I don't get the unvote

[Aeronaut]

Is that a hammer?

[Aeronaut]

Yea that's a hammer

[Aeronaut]

GG

[Aeronaut]

Good job elle

[Aeronaut]

Don't blame you.

Sorry for kind of fucking up day 4, T. I should have just stick to trying to distance us

[Aeronaut]

Serra, I forgot to mention that I'm glad you got my GOT reference

[Aeronaut]

He really should have not claimed instead and then replaced. That way Titus could claim something

[Aeronaut]

I did really enjoy the game as well. Hopefully it helped my scum game out a bit experience-wise

[Aeronaut]

I actually can't believe people discussed my venge claim for as long as they did. That was so far from legitimate-looking

[Aeronaut]

A vengeful claim never saves you from being lynched, but sometimes it can delay it.

Scum seemed pretty boned after leaving garmr alive to get 2 clears, so it's pretty impressive you guys got into an ambiguous lylo. Killing garmr N1 would have given a pretty easy scum win, I would imagine.

Realtalk confession about that claim

Spoiler:

It Maaaaaay have been a drunk-posting. I just remember waking up the next day with a headache, and having no real recollection of posting it. Then I just went with it.

So... yea.

A vengeful claim never saves you from being lynched, but sometimes it can delay it.

Scum seemed pretty boned after leaving garmr alive to get 2 clears, so it's pretty impressive you guys got into an ambiguous lylo. Killing garmr N1 would have given a pretty easy scum win, I would imagine.

Ive faked claimed hider as town before so it might of made them more cautious lol.

Yea, we actually thought you were faking that claim so hard, and that you were like a mason or something.

[Aeronaut]

Oh, and SB I don't know if I mentioned, you were definitely Town MVP along with Elle. Like if you hadn't replaced in, we'd have won pretty quickly, because your slot had been scummy as fuck

[Aeronaut]

Well, you had us pinned pretty well. Whereas your previous slots were basic VIs