Mini 1627: Ninja Mini Mafia

[Formerfish]

Snoochi bootchi bitches, what should I know?

[Formerfish]

How much time do we have before deadline?

[Formerfish]

And you have an odd definition of major wagon varsoon. I normally don't pay attention to single votes.

[Formerfish]

And what does that tell you?

[Formerfish]

Getting shitty and marathoning this ish. Be ready boys!

[Formerfish]

Alright, I am about to dump a huge post, i may have rambled in parts and there is a good chnace that some of it might not make snese because the fiance and baby are out of town for the weekend and i started slamming yuengling pounders as soon as i got home from work at midnight. I'll so a lynchability list after my mental shit.

[Formerfish]

BBT- bad form for voting the largest wagon and then going lva. And then you try to pacify your target by insinuating that he is worried about being voted. You don’t see any reason why scum would quick vote their buddy for a lynch? Especially when said person, Boon, has made a habit of playing like a complete and utter jackass and would probably get away with it on those merits alone? You think that the idea of you sheeping Thor was a flat out lie? Didn’t you sheep Thor onto Varsoon and then go lva? Let me look back towards the beginning of this paragraph… yup. Why are you assuming the Thor wagon was all town? How often do you see no scum on a successful lynch? #539, start believing in the ability of scum to stop situations from getting out of hand quickly. You won’t have to worry about this slot for lurking anymore, I don’t think im active anywhere else, and I have plenty of time to devote. Townies most def self vote at certain times. What you need to figure out is if this is one of those times?

Gams- post #63 you say you see Thor as town, but really don’t say why. You explain your Varsoon read though, why only explain one? Why does town want to be out of RVS ASAP? Your read on Boon is bad, and you should feel bad. I literally can’t even follow the logic you are trying to use here.

Acryon- I like the questions you are asking, shows you seeking to understand motivations and whatnot. I don’t like your idea that we need to get out of RVS as fast as possible though. Do you not see any point to RVS? #362 you say that we as town shouldn’t be trying to get others to agree with our town reads. Have you ever played a game where a townbloc formed?

This question comes from something you said, but I want everyone to answer it as well, a few people have mentioned that saying someone is scummy off of one thing is scummy, so what is an acceptable threshold to have suspicions of someone?

And how do you not have

any

comments on the Thor/All/Kono shitfest? Re: #369 private topics are a fairly new thing for this site, and a lot of mods still prefer to use qts because there is less that could go wrong with them. I once had to recreate a scum thread in a game I ran because it wouldn’t let me edit the player list to add on a replacement. What made you so sure Thor v Orc was tvt? You are the second person to lay out the theory that scum was not on the wagon. I don’t like this. Saying that scum wouldn’t have been able to get on to vote totally ignores the possibility that scum were among those who voted. #536 struck me as a little off because you are arguing with Varsoon over having a town pile, which seems off given your comment earlier about townhunting (which is a totally legit style), I can’t put my finger on why it bugs me, but it does. I didn’t like it when you unvoted Boon before intent was given to see how he would react, and now I am seeing you advocate the same thing with the Konowa wagon. What is the point of driving these guys to l-1 and then back off before a claim? It’s like deep thrusting without any intention of finishing, what is it going to take to get one of these fuckers into the vinegar strokes?

Zeb- How often do you get scum reads off page 1? How often are those reads accurate? And do you give the benefit of the doubt on d1 or scumread people? #335 is a Debating is inherently fine, but when it starts to become an argument over semantics who gives a fucking shit. I think I hate everything you said in that post. Konowa didn’t sound town at all in his interactions with All, and even just hearing it leaves a dirty feeling on my eyes.

Boonskiies- its post #84 and I see a level headed player with sane play, what have you done with the Boonskiies I know and slightly dislike? In #127 you vote Allyra for town reading Varsoon and Thor, which of those shouldn’t have been a town read and why didn’t you have your vote on them at that point. I have a big issue with this statement : “We're on page 6, so you have no reason you should be so strong on a town read already.” I have people I can read in one post, your idea that in 6 pages a town read can’t be attained is asinine. #134 is pretty bad as well, you are finding All scummy for townreading people that you are also townreading. In #166 you claim to be a troll, which you normally are, when you are town. I don’t see you as town here. #229 is an attempt to blatantly discredit Alls read. Reason for Rando vote is #247 was…? #389, god I wish people knew how much of a shit you were to not put anyone near l-1 without you already on the wagon. You really should be lynched for this alone. And yes I do realize that you hammered on scum, but you failed to give him time to make a claim which if you remember from earlier is pretty fucking important. It could also be seen as trying to end the day early so that your scumbuddy doesn’t have the opportunity to do/say anything that could hurt the endgame.

I troll hammer all the time. Usually as town. I don't think I've ever hammered as scum, come to think of it.

This is danger close to being a trust tell (I think). I saw you do this in the game I modded, and you were town, but I would have killed the shit out of you if I had been playing. “Ever think I might have a fucking role that causes me to auto hammer?” We are playing a mini normal game. You show me one fucking instance where there is a compulsive hammer role in a normal game and my vote doesn’t go on you when I am done with my read through. Your #626 is hella funny. “hey guyz, can some1 unvt pleaz, I don’t wnt some1 to lolhammer me while I’m doing my chores. Parents!” You didn’t care enough d1 to let Thor participate before his lynch and we could have gotten something good from him. A reads list, a claim, misinformation, fucking anything. “uhm....scum replacing out? or just doesn't want to deal with defending himself?” What pressure was he escaping?

Allyra- you replace in on page 4 and can’t be fucked to read the game before asking questions. Why? I think you and I saw the same thing re: Gams 63. I’d like you to elaborate on what you saw. What didn’t you like about Konowas entrance? I like your tet-a-tet with Thorella a lot, like a lot a lot. I don’t see this as scum theater, you brought up too many good points that really hit Thor in the magical hammer. (Are you an alt?) Fuck, just hit #238…
Orcinus- you pick up right where All left off, it’s not often that I get to see Thor on the backpedal. Why did you vote Varsoon start of d2? “do you think survivalism is a scum marker?” I kinda do.

Varsoon- Thor was scummy as shit with everything he did, what did you need to step back to see? Do you still have a Gams town read, if so why? You think that All/Orc v Thor was all scum theater? Ok, next post whew, I was going to have to roll with a vote on you at some point for that bussing comment, jesus that would have made no sense.

Konowa- I don’t think we have the same definition of circular logic. Scum does x, Y did x, therefore y could be scum is not circular logic, that is linear logic. #198 is bad, this game is built upon people interpreting peoples words to find scum. We use our past experiences to figure that out the best we can and put pressure where we see things out of place. You are scum reading All for saying that something you did was scummy, and then vote based off that weak reasoning. In #226 you accuse Allyra of making shitty statements without backing them up, which were? Only reason I ask is because last I saw you said you were happy without reading what happened previously because you were happy with your vote. So did you read and come to that conclusion on All, or just speaking out of your ass? I really don’t like the way you were teaming up with Thor on All. It’s the kind of self-righteous bullshit that infuriates me in games too. The idea that your reads are infallible, but everyone else’s that you don’t agree with are easily seen to be false. And then you wonder why people lose their shit when trying to deal with you.

Xiao- nothing from you has stood out one way or the other, until this

It might depending on how fast mod locks this thread, after that it's pointless.
My biggest thing on Konowa is how he came into the game saying he would tell us who scum was, but then did zero scum hunting whatsoever. The only thing he did was defend himself from prodding from Allyra, and then vote because of her questioning him. Then once she left and the heat was off, he unvoted and hasn't been around since. Sorry this is devoid of quotes, I want to get my thoughts out before nightfall.

Big QFT here. 600+ posts in, you really should have some reads, so I’ll agree with BBT there. BBT has a point, and it would probably be easier to just answer the question. Why post a reads list that is pretty much all null? One lynch and you go all martyr, no bueno kimosabi.

Drake- I don’t know what you are yet, but I think I love you for #671 alone.

[Formerfish]

Town: Xiao, Varsoon, Orc,
Null: Drake, Acr, BBT
Scum/Can Die In a Fire And I Would Sleep Soundly: Konowa, Boonskiies, Zeb, Gams

And here is where it gets interesting
Konowa (3): Boonskiies, Gamsimbre, Drake Crusader (contains two of my scummier reads)
Boonskiies (2): Zebulin, Konowa (contains two of my scummier reads)
Xiao Long (2): Xiao Long
Goblin (1): Varsoon
Varsoon (1): orcinus_theoriginal, BBT

Bussing is a thing, but who is doing it and why? Am I all twisted and have fucked up reads? I think I'll wait for people to respond to my brain dump before trying to figure this out.

[Formerfish]

Good talk man. Looking forward to it.

[Formerfish]

UNVOTE:
Good shit, Formerfish.

Unvoting me doesn’t prevent you from answering my questions:
What does me looking to see where the wagons were at tell you?
What did you see when you took a step back during the Thor shit?
Still town reading Gams? Why?
You really think that All/Orc v Thor was scum theater?

OK, this accusation of me sheeping Thor is ridiculous. Since when is an RVS vote sheeping? Seriously.

Thor put down a vote, called it serious and then you voted without saying much of anything. Oh wait, you didn’t say anything. And I know it is page 1 and who in their right fucking mind would be throwing down serious votes by post 7, but you sheeped the wagon Thor started. And you could have voted Thor but didn’t, why?

I also still maintain that scum!Boon does not hammer Thor like that. Coincidentally, if Boon does turn out to be scum I'll forever policy lynch him in any game we're in.

We will agree to disagree on this one. I see cause for scum to hammer in that situation.

Why are you assuming the Thor wagon was all town? How often do you see no scum on a successful lynch?

You are the second person to lay out the theory that scum was not on the wagon. I don’t like this. Saying that scum wouldn’t have been able to get on to vote totally ignores the possibility that scum were among those who voted

Twice you state you're unhappy with people thinking that it's unlikely scum were on the Thor wagon. IMO, if scum were not on the wagon they would most definitely be pushing to say that scum were on the wagon. The lynch pool for scum becomes worryingly small if we assume Thor was an all-town wagon.

Yes, I even said that someone was the second to make mention of it. And you could make the same argument for scum on the wagon, it would behoove them to make a case for scum being off it. This point is actually pretty weak of you to make because it assumes evidence that we don’t have with conclusions based on that absent evidence.

Fish, do you think both scum(?) bussed?

I think the likely hood that there is one scum is fairly high, I would doubt both were though.

Could you sum your read up on Acryon in a sentence or two please. I mean, that's an awful lot of fluff to say someone is null.

I liked his earlier posting, and not so much his later. The questions he was asking seemed pointed and related to finding scum, but then during one of the more information dense times he goes dark, and then stated that he didn’t have much to say about the Kono/All/Thor fiasco. He then pops back up during your face off with Xiao to play referee. So yeah, null read there.

Same for Boon.

Is this why am I scum reading Boon? Cause that’s what I’m doing. I have played with Boon many times and I have modded a game he was in. This isn’t the same Boon that I know and loath. His game here is more reserved and actually seemed normal until that shit hammer. The hammer is a big part of where my scum read comes from because that seems like an example of where too scummy to be scummy is probably actually scum at work. I have seen scum buddies quick hammer like that before when they think that a situation has the ability to get out of control. I see no town motivation at all within Boons actions because he deprived the town from information that we could have gained from pressing Thor a little.

Your notes on Varsoon are worringly thin given the amount of posts he has. Like, you don't even explain why he is in your town-reads. Can you do that for me?

My experience with Varsoon comes from Touhou, where we were both town. I feel like reading his posts this game that I see the exact same thing I did that game. If it makes a difference, he was even getting scum reads in that game for his play. Mostly I would say that this is a strong gut read.
I have even less on Gams and he is one of my top scum reads, why don’t you take issue with the skeletal notes on him?

Xiao- nothing from you has stood out one way or the other

Nothing stood out to you from Xiao except one post...and he becomes like your top town-read? I don't get it. Your reads are beginning to look awfully convenient to me.

Alright, first I never ranked my reads, you just assumed I did because they are in an order. If you actually looked closely you would see that they are separated into categories and listed in order of how they are on the player list. He became a town read because he was the only one to call out Konowa on never following through with his promise of scum hunting in post #396. He faltered a bit with his reads list and the ensuing conversation with you, but his self vote read town as fuck to me. I think that you can agree after the last game we had together why that might seem that way to me.

Town: Xiao, Varsoon, Orc,
Null: Drake, Acr, BBT
Scum/Can Die In a Fire And I Would Sleep Soundly: Konowa, Boonskiies, Zeb, Gams

I mean, with the exception of Varsoon, your scum-reads can just be explained as 'Most likely people to get lynched toDay'.

Konowa I explained, Boonskiies I explained. Zeb and Gams I didn’t explain to much, mostly because there isn’t much to use for an explanation. And I don’t give a fuck what you think about my reads list. You however seem to really care about others since this is the second one you have basically called shit. Too many null reads, no good. Definite reads, no good.

You haven't explained any of your reads. That big ass post is basically a commentary of what's happened in the game with very little actual analysis and a couple of questions thrown in.

Nope, I’m not going to let you try and accuse me of IIoA, because that is just flat out not true. My post is a mix of observations, analysis and probative questions with the intent to nail people down on things that I saw that pinged me a certain way.

You don’t get to not answer questions either:
Why do you assume that the Thor wagon was all town?
Do you see many all town lynches?
Have you ever seen a townie self vote?

I disagree I think survivalism is not exclusively a scum marker. Town PR fit into that mold as well. Nothing else addressed to me that I saw. Come vote varsoon!

Never said it was exclusive. I do feel like scum moreso than town want to stay alive at all cost. Town want to stay alive until they aren’t useful anymore OR their death could be

made

useful. And I’m pretty on board with you just being a solid town read for your interactions with Thor. If you are scum and that was theater, then brafuckingvo.

Fish, describe the process by which you wrote #800

I thought I did that in #799, but I guess you need it answered in a different way. When I got home from work I made myself a nice bowl of soup and some buttered bread. I began drinking beer and started the thread. This was about 12:30amish. For the next 6 hours or so I read the thread, made notes and started to form reads as I went. I also watched the last 5 episodes of The Shield as I went. Somewhere around 4-4:30 am I saw that the post count was growing so I made a comment that I was getting drunk and marathoning the thread to get current. I finished reading, and then posted my findings. Looking for something more?

[Formerfish]

Ahh.. ok, I get what you were looking at. I separated things by people, its not a linear read through. When someone pinged me i put their name in microsoft word and then anything else that hit me concerning them would just go with their name. I didn't notice All had replaced out because all I knew going in was who had died, which is why there aren't any notes for Thor or Rando. That's why there are things referenced out of order from events with other people.

pedit- show me why its tvt. BBT got one over on me last game we played together, I'm not so willing to just slap him with anything.

pedit2- I know that, re varsoon, thats why my read on him is based off him in Touhou. I don't get what you are saying exactly, because it seems to be exactly what I said. Wait, Touhou is a game, not a person.

[Formerfish]

No, thats a reading comprehension fail. I am saying that I see the same play from him this game as I saw from him that game. You could take his posts from either game and switch them and they would intersect flawlessly.

pedit- sorry, not tvt that was a typing fail. Show me how BBT is town based off Thor interactions.

[Formerfish]

I was never much on an english guy. Sorry for the confusion.

[Formerfish]

Question for you first. Does it bug you at all that the guy who has a quote about not liking meta, is using meta

from a single game

to get a read off someone? Especially when that person is Thor?

[Formerfish]

Missed that one. Ok, so how do you reconcile tvs here?

[Formerfish]

@Xiao- no? I don't see the vote as opportunistic. If he read the same thing I did and came to the same conclusion then he voted where he thinks he found scum. And I agree with his sentiment. Sometimes we get so rolled up in the idea that we are about to make a mistake with a lynch that we pull back and keep doing it until we a) hit deadline and have to compromise and usually miss, b) wait for a cop or other role to out a guilty and then follow, or c) wait for scum to make an egregious error and hammer them for it. We have a certain amount of mislynches built into each game, using them to get information is an unpopular idea among those with weak stomachs.

@Orc- You don't think that could have been scum theater? Something set up before hand by Thor, a very strong player, and BBT, a very sneaky player? Like Thor came in and said I am not going to vote you, call me on it for towncred?

[Formerfish]

He snowed the fuck out of town in Robbery at the Casino.

[Formerfish]

Gentlemen, I refuse to let either of you be lynched today. Do you think that we could come to an agreement who should be pushed?

I like Kono for a lynch, but have issue with who is on his wagon. I know that I have 2 scum reads to many, but this is where I am at right now.

[Formerfish]

BBT, I'll respond to that last wall in a minute. I just strolled through your iso and noticed an absence of something. You admit to disliking Xiaos reads list because you think it's empty, and you don't like mine because it seems safe and pretty vanilla. So why don't you go ahead and give us your reads stud, I'd love to see how a real Mafia player creates a reads list.

[Formerfish]

I don't think I'm on any wagon. And the more I think about it the more I want Boon to swing. That hammer was just megabad, like Sharknado without the campy goodness. Every game I've seen Boon play he has this loveable idiot act going on and he eventually says something along the lines of, "Well if I were scum, do you really think I'd do that?" and "Well if you guys lynch me then look at the people pushing me as scum, cause that's where the scum really is!" I just can't let this go on. Call it a policy lynch if you must, but if it walks like a scumbag, talks like a scumbag and plays like a scumbag, there's a good chance they are a scumbag.

Vote Boon

[Formerfish]

You didn't find anything in my catch up post worth responding to either?

Pedit- context son, give me some.

[Formerfish]

So you don't regret the fact that we weren't able to get anything else out of Thor? Not a reads list, not a claim, not even a chance at associative tells?

How about you trying to shirk the blame by first calling it a troll hammer, and then trying to pass it off as a role?

[Formerfish]

How about the fact that you call for people to Unvote you so you don't get hammered and the cognitive dissonance from your own actions?

[Formerfish]

And it also helps you hide as a wolf in sheep's clothing when you draw scum.

Guys we need to beat the stupid out of this one, and quickly. Boon, from now on you are first on my kill list any game we play.

[Formerfish]

Its not tunnel vision at all, and the fact that you are calling it that is a misrep. So please stop saying that. You are the epitome of too scummy to be scum and you will never change your ways unless you are forced to. I don't believe in your style of play because it is literally the worst thing I've ever seen. You play scummy as shit and then when someone pushes you for it you call them opportunistic scum going after low hanging fruit and point to the times you were town and mislynched as supposes evidence on your current alignment.

[Formerfish]

It is a crutch that you use to avoid having to actually learn a successful style of play.

[Formerfish]

You guys done jerking each other off? Orc is not getting lynched. BBT v. Thor is more likely scum theater than All/Orc v. Thor. You really think that scumAll would replace out because her scumbuddy pushed her too hard?

[Formerfish]

I think Orc scum is a bad assumption to make. Just flat out bad.

[Formerfish]

What do you mean once you reevaluated Thor?

[Formerfish]

I didn't respond. I am waiting for you to post reads. Seems like a legit request seeing how critical you are of everyone else's.

[Formerfish]

Why is that?

[Formerfish]

Well, I guess we have ourselves a little Mexican standoff then.

[Formerfish]

Well that escalated pretty quickly. I fail to see any reasoning (actual reasoning, you know not the bullshit buzz words you're slinging in my direction). And find it quite funny that you vote me when I refuse to answer your line of question when you are in turn refusing to out your reads, which is pretty anti town when you think about the denial of information. Its especially bothersome that the info you refuse to provide is something you've made more than one observation about when done by others. Personally, I'm am waiting with bated breath to see what this mastery of reads list must look like. I imagine a font like none I've seen before, and composition that would make 14th century French poets weep with envy.

Vote BBT

Let's fucking do this.

[Formerfish]

Hey KJ, have fun reading!

[Formerfish]

Orc, talk to me about BBT for a bit. Thoughts on him so far? Thoughts on his refusal to provide a reads list even though he is the first to shit talk other peoples lists?

[Formerfish]

And trust tells are not allowed for that very reason.

He has reads, he's made pushes and he has made accusations, why would refusal to put them in list form, concreting them for the moment be pro town behavior?

[Formerfish]

I do find it a bit scummy to shit on everyone's reads and to then turn around and refuse to give your own. Especially I'm the way that he did it. Calling mine pedestrian but refusing to devulge his advantgaud reads in the same breath basically.

Added to all the shit hea been saying towards me = a scum read. I'd say Boon BBT team for the win.

[Formerfish]

I could. I would much rather him have to flesh them out and claim them outright to see where he is at. Inference leaves to much room for error and dodging later.

[Formerfish]

Well that escalated pretty quickly. I fail to see any reasoning (actual reasoning, you know not the bullshit buzz words you're slinging in my direction). And find it quite funny that you vote me when I refuse to answer your line of question when you are in turn refusing to out your reads, which is pretty anti town when you think about the denial of information. Its especially bothersome that the info you refuse to provide is something you've made more than one observation about when done by others. Personally, I'm am waiting with bated breath to see what this mastery of reads list must look like. I imagine a font like none I've seen before, and composition that would make 14th century French poets weep with envy.

Vote BBT

Let's fucking do this.

Well, I mean, you can clearly see I disliked your entry post for one. Then, you proceeded to completely stop the discussion we were having. I fail to see the town motivation in that.

It's good to see that OMGUS is still a thing as well. Votes should be piling on Fish now, that would be great.

Alright now that another game is over, maybe I'll actually be able to focus on this clusterfuck.

That's good because I'm beginning to think you're town.

Clearly Several pages later and he still isn't lynched. Konowa self voted = scum. As stated earlier he even said he was scum. = scum
He bullies people = scum. His posts and plays shows that he was afk when pressure on him was applied and now he is back as the wagon is forming again on BBT
Boon once again has me on edge. I have my reads almost finished. Just gotta work on Former and Varsoon.

Silll believe my vote on konowa is pure ( since he is scum.)

LOL what? Would happily, HAPPILY, lynch this guy right now.

i have a townread on BBT because refusal to give out reads list is something i do and i don't know if he's trying to manipulate me, and i think his interactions with thor seem pretty townish, and i think the only thing that bugs me about BBT is all the while i'm hard defending him he hasn't said a word to/about me and that's kinda weird

I believe we spoke earlier in the day. I'm pretty sure you're town and you seem set on lynching Varsoon today. I'm not sure that's what I want to do and am therefore pursuing other avenues. It would be just fantastic if you could vote Fish.

I do find it a bit scummy to shit on everyone's reads and to then turn around and refuse to give your own. Especially I'm the way that he did it. Calling mine pedestrian but refusing to devulge his advantgaud reads in the same breath basically.

Added to all the shit hea been saying towards me = a scum read. I'd say Boon BBT team for the win.

So, this is you admitting you're voting me because I voted you, right?

Well, if you ignore everything else I've said, squint real hard and then shove your head up your own ass I could see how scum would come to that conclusion.

But no. I won't admit to that because its not true and its a blatant attempt to discredit me, you know that bullshit tactic you've been trying against me since I came into the game.

So do you consider every return vote to be OMGUS? Cause I usually think of naked, knee jerk reactionary votes as OMGUS, but votes that come after an a) attempt to dance with the pretty bitch only to be turned away like the start of every 80's teen movie, b) an attempt to show scum motivation, and c) alarming feeling of deja vu from that last time I saw you in action, doesn't read as much of OMGUS as you are trying to play at.

Would you like to throw any other buzz words me way inaccurately for me to disprove?

[Formerfish]

Doing shit with the family day. I'll catch up soon.

[Formerfish]

Yes, I even said that someone was the second to make mention of it. And you could make the same argument for scum on the wagon, it would behoove them to make a case for scum being off it. This point is actually pretty weak of you to make because it assumes evidence that we don’t have with conclusions based on that absent evidence.

Yeah, I can see what you're saying here. I guess it's more from my POV as I feel confident in a lot of town-reads on the Thor wagon.

Thor665 (7): orcinus_theoriginal, randomidget, BlueBloodedToffee, Zebulin, Xiao Long, acryon, Boonskiies

Orc is town because of Orc Vs Thor, Random conf town, I'm town, Zeb is town because he chose to vote Thor when the two leading wagons were at L-4(?), Xiao is the one I am least confident on but his shit-fit he threw kinda makes me want to think he is town, Acryon's read progression from being on Thor side of Thor vs Orc to eventually voting Thor feels genuine and, well, we've been over Boon.
So, for me, that leaves both(?) scum off the wagon. At least for now.

I guess this is going to be an agree to disagree situation. I see where you are coming from, but I see no motivation for scum to stay off a wagon they are never going to catch any heat from. Added to the fact that it is rare, in my experience, to see an all town wagon like that.

He then pops back up during your face off with Xiao to play referee. So yeah, null read there.

Is this somehow alignment indicative for you?

Alignment indicative on its own, no. It could have greater implications later on depending on flips when looking at associative tells.

Your notes on Varsoon are worringly thin given the amount of posts he has. Like, you don't even explain why he is in your town-reads. Can you do that for me?

My experience with Varsoon comes from Touhou, where we were both town. I feel like reading his posts this game that I see the exact same thing I did that game. If it makes a difference, he was even getting scum reads in that game for his play. Mostly I would say that this is a strong gut read.
I have even less on Gams and he is one of my top scum reads, why don’t you take issue with the skeletal notes on him?

Because Gam hasn't posted anywhere near as much as Varsoon, so naturally, there is more to say about Varsoon than there is Gam.

Which of the two do you feel needs more explanation behind it, a town read or a scum read?

Konowa I explained, Boonskiies I explained. Zeb and Gams I didn’t explain to much, mostly because there isn’t much to use for an explanation. And I don’t give a fuck what you think about my reads list. You however seem to really care about others since this is the second one you have basically called shit. Too many null reads, no good. Definite reads, no good.

I didn't say your reads-list was shit. I said they were convenient reads that, I would say, line up well with the general feel of the game so far. There isn't much 'going against the grain' for you to be called out on.

Can you elaborate on your Zeb scum-read?

I think that the “convenience” comes from the fact that I came into the game as late as I did. Having a larger picture unfold all at once allows for a clearer picture then if I was getting it piece meal. Its like the whole boiling a frog story. Also, I’m not going to really give a shit about what you think of my reads until you out your own. Cause right now it seems like you have something ot say about everyone elses list, while you are keeping yours close to your chest… for what reason?

As for my Zeb scum read: The first thing that pinged me was him saying that he was willing to give Goblin the benefit of the doubt on day 1, but was reading him as his biggest suspect for the stuff that he was giving him a pass on. It felt like he was talking out of both sides of his mouth. I felt like his interpretation of the Thor/All debate was off, like he was trying to twist it to fit a different narrative. Voting All for showing frustration when dealing with Thor was uberbad. Same thing with the Kono/All spat. Maybe it was being able to look back at it and take it all in at once, but I saw what All was saying about Konos play before it was even brought up in thread. The fact that she was basically getting attacked by two players and no one gave a shit that her points were being ignored is something I can understand very well. Scum tends to avoid rational discussions and debates because they can get trapped. They prefer to keep people at arms length and argue semantics and minute points in such length that towns eyes glaze over when trying to decipher the walls upon walls of shit posting. My read on Zeb comes down to a difference in opinion about how things are taken.

You don’t get to not answer questions either:
Why do you assume that the Thor wagon was all town?
Do you see many all town lynches?
Have you ever seen a townie self vote?

See above.
I have seen them, yes. In fact, in a recent game, if I had believed the VCA which pointed to a 6 player all town wagon, we would have lynched scum instead of town in LyLo.
Yes, I have.

Ok.
Ok, link?
Ok, so if you’ve seen town selfvote before, how do you figure out town v scum motivation for a selfvote?

Except that's not what you did, was it? You called a post shitty, then only later on when I got became noticeably annoyed by it did you try to justify it as scum hunting when in reality your post had no question and served no purpose than to insult.

You continuing to ignore what I was saying and try to bullshit spin it into something completely different than what I said made me lose any and all desire to continue the game.
Coming back to it now, it still pisses me off, but instead of voting myself, I'll just vote you for the incredibly scummy play that I was too annoyed to properly address.

VOTE: BBT

My vote's probably staying here the rest of the day unless someone somehow becomes scummier than you.

I have explained why I did what I did. If you don't believe me, I quite frankly couldn't give a shit. I'll refrain from interacting with you because

I don't want to make you cry.

The bolded part is unnecessary and partly why I don’t like you or your play. This could totally just be a view that I hold (I don’t think it is though) but I feel like scum has more motivation to be assholes than town does. And I think that this comment has no other purpose than to poke the bear and piss Xiao off. Especially when I’ve seen you do it over and over and to multiple people, myself included.

@BBT: Nuanced reading of the game, critical of self and reads, is putting in an effort that's pinging town to me--asks questions, isn't totally sure of self, is willing to take risks. I dunno, man, I dig it. If it was scum, he could've easily joined any of the large wagons. But not here. So yeah dawg.

I didn't see all that much analysis.

Personal opinion that no amount of arguing will show that you are wrong. Also, something that you haven’t tried to prove, just something you keep repeating.

Effort isn't indicative of alignment.

True, but you can start to sort me based off the content that I’m providing.

How is 'isn't sure of self' and 'willing to take risks' alignment indicative? In fact, how is he willing to take risks?

Putting a reads list out there that I’m going to have to stand behind and defend. That’s one.

Join the large wagons? You mean join the biggest wagon, like say, Konowa?

This makes it sound like I was on the Kono wagon, or are you just pointing out that I am scum reading Kono?

I don't think I'm on any wagon. And the more I think about it the more I want Boon to swing. That hammer was just megabad, like Sharknado without the campy goodness. Every game I've seen Boon play he has this loveable idiot act going on and he eventually says something along the lines of, "Well if I were scum, do you really think I'd do that?" and "Well if you guys lynch me then look at the people pushing me as scum, cause that's where the scum really is!" I just can't let this go on. Call it a policy lynch if you must, but if it walks like a scumbag, talks like a scumbag and plays like a scumbag, there's a good chance they are a scumbag.

Vote Boon

Varsoon, remember when you said something about scum jumping on the easiest wagons? What's your opinion on Fish jumping on the Boon wagon?

I guess you are buying into the too scummy to be scum idea that Boon likes to perpetuate. I’ll say this as plainly as I can. Boon is either scum, or bad for town. Either way he needs to die at somepoint.

[Formerfish]

Dude literally posted over 1000 words of analysis on each player.
Doesn't matter--contributed effort allows for players to be more clearly read and lets the game move forward. It's pro-town even if it isn't alignment indicative.
Scum have information. Town have to find it out. He's willing to take risks by forming his own reads rather than YOLO-swaggin' into the game. The fact he's scumreading several players but not all of them feels genuine.
He hasn't even cast a vote as far as I am aware other than on Boon (and he explained this one fairly well)--in fact, he's voiced hesitance about joining the Konowa wagon.

BBT, I'm starting to wonder if you throwing flame like in the bolded is you just being incapable of reading the game or you literally being this bad at playing scum.
Either way, you've either got a terrible grasp on the game or you're really transparent when you're misrepping.
:l


Move BBT back up the list.
I'd be cool with a BBT, Boonskies, or Konowa lynch.

No, 'words' do not equal analysis. It was a running commentary on what had happened in the game with

very little

actual analysis. Of course it matters, you just tried to town-read him because of the effort he is putting in. Which is a ridiculous reason to town-read someone.

Hey, maybe we should lynch the players with the least posts and make our way up the list day by day? I'm sure we'll catch scum that way because there is no way they put as much effort into the game as town and therefore will have less posts. Or should we do it by word count? Tough choice. /sarcasm.

You keep saying the same thing like it is a fact. Recap. Little analysis. Show your work or you do not get credit for this point.

And Jesus, no one ever suggested that activity is the sole reason to give/get a town read. Don’t be so hyperbolic.

Why would you be killing Zebulin?
VOTE: Boonskiies
I have a TOTALLY 100% SCUMCLAIM FROM KONOWA
and I'm willing to chase this instead.

Because you're scum? Opportunistic vote change.

More buzz words.

I always do totally random/make people question their town reads kills as scum. Anyways, I'm getting kind of irritated and done with this game, especially because I'm not important at all in this game, so Imma join the wagon.

VOTE: Boonskiies

Boon, I don't know wtf you're doing but can you stop now? Thanks.

Scum reads Xiao when he selfvotes. Boon does it and he gets gently redirected. Guess you saw this selfvote as coming from town?

Well that escalated pretty quickly. I fail to see any reasoning (actual reasoning, you know not the bullshit buzz words you're slinging in my direction). And find it quite funny that you vote me when I refuse to answer your line of question when you are in turn refusing to out your reads, which is pretty anti town when you think about the denial of information. Its especially bothersome that the info you refuse to provide is something you've made more than one observation about when done by others. Personally, I'm am waiting with bated breath to see what this mastery of reads list must look like. I imagine a font like none I've seen before, and composition that would make 14th century French poets weep with envy.

Vote BBT

Let's fucking do this.

Well, I mean, you can clearly see I disliked your entry post for one. Then, you proceeded to completely stop the discussion we were having. I fail to see the town motivation in that.

Yes, I did see you throw some pot shots at my posts, must have missed where you broke them down to show scum motivation, or IIoA, or why you didn’t like them in any kind of detail. And the reason that I broke off our conversation is because in trying to sort you I realized that you hadn’t provided a reads list, something that would be very helpful to me in determining your alignment. When I asked you about this, you blew me off, and then eventually said that you weren’t providing one because you wanted to keep them close to the vest. What is the town motivation in that?

It's good to see that OMGUS is still a thing as well. Votes should be piling on Fish now, that would be great.

Again, OMGUS is a thing, my vote was not OMGUS.

I do find it a bit scummy to shit on everyone's reads and to then turn around and refuse to give your own. Especially I'm the way that he did it. Calling mine pedestrian but refusing to devulge his advantgaud reads in the same breath basically.

Added to all the shit hea been saying towards me = a scum read. I'd say Boon BBT team for the win.

So, this is you admitting you're voting me because I voted you, right?

Is that all you got out of that bit? No.

Well, if you ignore everything else I've said, squint real hard and then shove your head up your own ass I could see how scum would come to that conclusion.

But no. I won't admit to that because its not true and its a blatant attempt to discredit me, you know that bullshit tactic you've been trying against me since I came into the game.

So do you consider every return vote to be OMGUS? Cause I usually think of naked, knee jerk reactionary votes as OMGUS, but votes that come after an a) attempt to dance with the pretty bitch only to be turned away like the start of every 80's teen movie, b) an attempt to show scum motivation, and c) alarming feeling of deja vu from that last time I saw you in action, doesn't read as much of OMGUS as you are trying to play at.

Would you like to throw any other buzz words me way inaccurately for me to disprove?

Everything else you have said? Please, elaborate on why you are voting for me.

I disagree with some of your views, most notably that there was no scum on the Thor wagon, and feel like town should be more cautious when approaching things like this to avoid confbias. I feel like you are handwaving the content I have provided by saying it’s IIoA and not actual content. I don’t like the push you made on Xiao and the cheap shots you throw out there. I see scum motivation in your actions, so you are getting scum read by me. When I tried to engage you on issues and get a reads list out of you you shut that down without even giving an explanation, and then when I said that I had an issue with that you voted me. What great scum motivator is there behind asking for you to provide reads, and then saying that I didn’t like that you wouldn’t?

I consider

your

vote OMGUS because I do not see your case on me. Don't act like I'm the one stopping the discussion because that is flat out untrue. You've attempted to show scum motivation for who?

Still not OMGUS. Keep saying it though, I’m sure your buddy will pick up on this eventually and start backing you up.

[Formerfish]

Don't meta read me. Nobody ever gets it right.

Well, shucks. You know the last person who told me I couldn’t do meta I ran a fucking train on and successfully lynched scum. So I am going to do what I like to do.

So other than meta, your stopping of our discussion (how does this make me scum?) and my refusal to provide reads (how does this make me scum?), do you actually have any reason to be voting for me? (Note: OMGUS is not a reason. You should stop doing that.)

See above.
p.s.- Still not OMGUS, nice to see you really sticking with the accusation though.

VOTE: Drake

You called Varsoons vote on Boon opportunistic. Can you explain how this vote was not the same thing? I do know you mentioned disdain for Drake earlier, but you waited until there was 3 votes on him already to move your vote over.

Uuuuuggggh.
Ugggh.
Ugh.
Screw all you guys.
VOTE: drake

Good vote!

So if someone votes the way that you want them to, it’s not opportunistic. If they vote a way that you don’t like then it is opportunistic. Got it.

Doing shit with the family day. I'll catch up soon.

Hi Scum.

Was there something particularly scummy in that you found in this post, or is this just you not so subtly reminding everyone about your read on me?

Acryon

null town - He seems to want to scumhunt. He has posted good content that I did actually enjoy reading for an incite on his thinking. Appears to be town in nature will have to see what he thinks about last few pages when he comes back. Until then he is null town slot.

BBT

null scum - Has played town pretty much all game as well. The only issue I have is the beginning of the game when he focuses Thor with vicious intent. Could be a case where he turned in his scum buddy for ult town cred. That and the feeling that he is holding quite a bit back earns him the null scum on my list.

Boon

scum - The hammer! The self vote. The way he tries to appeal to the town to make them feel bad for his mistakes. Good chance for him to flip scum in this game. I know im not the only one seeing this connection.
He is now my official top read. I only wanted to play with the Konowa wagon for a little bit. Still feel he is scummy but, Boon has more chance of flipping then Konowa will.
These two posts are also reasoning for why im against him.

I've never self-voted as scum before.

Using meta as a defense is honestly stupid anymore. It can be fabricated. I see this as " Look at me! I played a games where I self-voted and wasn't scum. Im such a pro!"

I also don't think so. If I had a scum partner I didn't want on my team, I wouldn't bat an eye about bussing them. I'd go through with it for my own town cred, so they don't mess it up for me.

This post relates back to the idea I had with BBT. As boon stated he was on both wagons (thor and my own) along with the fact that killing off his partner would buy him town cred for the rest of the game. This would also assist him in the smoothing out of any mistakes he would make during the game itself.

FormerFish

town ( I left out the others in his slot.) He appears town in nature and wants to go out and scum hunt. Kinda like him and I believe what he says.

KillerJester

null town - Haven't really found a home for him let. I shall later on. Seems town in nature as well. Don't really see any points to latch on to and dissect.

Konowa

scum - Very aggressive and appears to be vengeful his posts don't sit well and I could see him easily wanting distance from thor. He is a player who seems to go independently with winning this for mafia. This decision is based mostly on gut.

orcinus_theoriginal

null - Kinda scum like. Kinda town like. He dances between the stances with his posts and is not afraid to push or turtle up. He is and will most likely be a hard read I will have to come up with a spot for him aswell but, for now he is on the radar.

Varsoon

town - An angry townie actually. He just rages and then goes back to playing with his toys again. A lot of posts with a lot of content. After rereading his stuff I have concluded that he is not the scum I thought he was and instead has been moved to town for now. Posted some helpful advice in between his outbursts.

Xiao Long

null to scum - The self vote on himself is something that I view as a scum tell. Salty as can be and a touch rash. He just appears to have blinders on this game and looks like it will continue throughout. Kinda reminds me of a toned down Varsoon.

Zebulin

town - Helpful, appears to be honest and on point. Feel very good he will flip town at endgame.

I near enough disagree with every single read here. More than happy to lynch you.

Here we go again.

Fish has barely done anything and he gets a solid town-read[…]

Do you get tired rehashing the same baseless shit time and time again?

But, at last I shall confess. I am your normal town member. Eh you can vote me off tho.

I am not much of a help I figure and one less town will help make mafia's job easier.

At least I got that list up. This game has been frustrating to say the least.

I have a real problem seeing the bolded coming from a town mindset. Why would town want to make mafia's job easier?

This is one thing we agree on. The statement is weird.

BBT, I guess my scum read on you comes down to the way you choose to interact with me. I don’t see you trying to sort me, I see you with your mind being made up since the first time I posted. I see you posting with confbias up one said and down the other. A lot of what I don’t like about you could come down to a difference in playstyle, but I just see little to no town motivation in the way you play. And with re: your reads on Boon v. Drake. Boon is a town read for you (somefucking how) so anyone who speaks ill of him you try to throw a scum tag on using opportunistic as your reasoning. Drake is someone you have a scum read on (with some reasoning) and are buddying up to everyone trying to get the lynch.
What I don’t get is this. You could easily make a case for scumBoon based off bad play, but you are handwaving it away. Drake makes a couple bad posts and you are drinking beers, tying the noose and riling up your redneck buddies for a night on the town. What is the difference between the two?

[Formerfish]

I messed up the tags in the middle one. I couldnt figure out how so I said fuck it.

[Formerfish]

Do you think Boon is scum?

[Formerfish]

How do you differentiate your VIs?

[Formerfish]

Trust tells are against the rules. If he really did drop trust tells wouldn't he be reprimanded or modkilled?

[Formerfish]

Orc...

By him saying that he is town because he has NEVER hammered as scum, and that he has NEVER self voted as scum he is violating trust tell rules, if it is true.

[Formerfish]

Why he not be modkilled for violating that rule?

[Formerfish]

my heart does not believe in this wagon.

Forget about your heart, what does your head say about the arguments I am making.

[Formerfish]

Intent to hammer Drake

48 hours so we can use the remaining days

I feel like I've explained why earlier and his recent posts show 'scum/town that doesn't care' and neither attitude helps town. That 1108 literally asks to be lynched. I'm also worried that the wagon is getting apathetic and just forgetting about itself (like how the boys forgot Simon in

Lord of the Flies

, just stopped caring).

Also, Formerfish, I was waiting for Goblin's replacement to come in and answer questions before voting the guy, because I assumed Goblin couldn't/wouldn't play Mafia. The replacement, you, played townish so I didn't see the need to vote.

This pings me as all kinds of bad.
First, Drake isn't even at l-1, so hammer isn't exactly in play right now.
Second, is saying he literally asked to be lynched which is a misrep of what he actually said. What Drake is doing is falling on his sword to get a lynch through if that's what needs to happen.
Third, no one has forgotten about the wagon or that we have a deadline coming close...ish. We still have 4 days, which is plenty of time to switch gears if needed.

re: Goblin- with me replacing in you've lost all interest, so it seems, in trying to sort me and have given what seems like a town hand wave. Am I not an easily mislynch know and you've lost interest in persuing me?

[Formerfish]

BBT how did you feel reading Zebs last post?

[Formerfish]

This is going to sound stupid, but I think its the throwaway line from Lord of the Flies that's bugging me most.

[Formerfish]

Zeb, the word literally has a very literal meaning. He did not literally ask to be lynched. Stop saying that.

[Formerfish]

No he said that if it came down to it and he was going to be the lynch then so be it.

And stop with the small text. Sack the fuck up and say what you need to say. We noticed that you called for a hammer on Drake when he was at l-2. Know what else I noticed, you actually put him at l-1 without announcing it. And I know that we are here talking about it so why would you have to, right? Because it'd be the town thing to do.

[Formerfish]

I don't see stating Intent to Hammer is scummy at all.

I figured maybe you would since as town you hammer without saying a thing. Hey Boon, do I have enough of your attention to answer some questions I've already asked twice?

What were you thinking when you first tried to excuse your hammer on trolling? And then when that didn't work you tried to get us to believe that you may have been a compulsive hammerer?

How do you reconcile the fact that when you were being run up you begged people not to hammer yet, but you see nothing anti-town in the way you quick hammered Thor.

I look forward to your succinct answers forthwith.

[Formerfish]

The tiny text you are inserting into your posts. Stop that shit. I can't be any more clear then that.

[Formerfish]

Kono is it just me or were you really active when you were being run up, then you disappeared when your wagon fell apart? Next few posts are 1. fluff about varsoon, 2. Telling Drake to claim, 3. Begging for a lynch, and then 4 days later 4. Man times are hard, I'll read and post... tomorrow.

We are what 2-3 days away from deadline, you've been MIA while lazily pushing a halfassed lynch, and you are promising content... later.

Fuck that.

Vote Mono

[Formerfish]

Derp Mono=Kono

[Formerfish]

Varsoon, I am confused by what you just did there. Care to fix that?

[Formerfish]

What the fuck is going on right now?

[Formerfish]

If my count is right it should have been a hammer. Zeb put him at l-1 and Varsoon hammered. The rest of the posts are what confused me.

[Formerfish]

You are not a policy Lynch. At least not really. I want to lynch you for your play this game. Policy lynching you would occur before you do any of the stupid shit you are bound to do.

[Formerfish]

Kono is going tomorrow barring a fucking cop inno.

[Formerfish]

Vote Zeb

Scum bag response.

[Formerfish]

By the way, howdy neighbor. Thanks for lending me that power tool last week.

[Formerfish]

I really want Varsoon to explain what the fuck he was going on about at days end yesterday.

[Formerfish]

13 player games have 3 scum from my experience.

I ran a mini that had 2 scum and a third party.

[Formerfish]

Because I dont like your face

[Formerfish]

Yeah, I do, but I don't feel like laying it out for someone who I haven't seen do any kind of scum hunting.

[Formerfish]

Stop asking for our cases, cases are for scumbags.

Do you have anything else on me to explain your vote or is it solely because I refuse to play your reindeer games? WELL YOU KNOW WHAT BLITZEN, I DONT GIVE A FUCK ABOUT YOUR GAMES!

Seriously bro, your play today has been all defense, and I have no reason to illuminate you towards my thinking right now because you haven't shown me town play at all. Now if you want to call that scummy have a field day, but you aren't doing shit other that omgus the fuck out of Boon and myself.

[Formerfish]

And trust me, I could write a case that would have you voting yourself cause its just that damn good.

[Formerfish]

How do you figure I am asking for his reasons? I know what his reason is and its bullshit. Pure and simple omgus bullshit. Show me where he has done any real scum hunting today, if you can do that ill elaborate on my reasons for voting him.

[Formerfish]

I have a hard time reconciling your statement that you are scum hunting because of our interaction. You are not scum hunting, you are pointing fingers back at us after we called you scum. And Xiao I guess I could see how that would be asking for reasons, but its kinda not. I don't remember him even suspecting that he had a scum read on me before this whole thing went down. And I looked at his iso, there is no scum hunting whatsoever today, I didn't look back further because I got bored.

And look at the fucking reads list, only boon and myself as scum? Get the fuck out of here, that is such a fabricated list that we should probably be paying fines to some poor Indonesian kid in a sweat shop somewhere.

[Formerfish]

See, how is how I am thinking. When I am town and feel like someone is pushing a bullshit case on me with no reasoning, you know what I do? Move the fuck on and find actual scum. Instead you have dug in here and repeatedly said that you cant defend something you are unaware of, and that your lynch will never go through with just two people on it. So what is the point of you harping on something that doesnt matter?

Bottom line is you are way to concerned over what you consider to be naked bullshit votes. You want us to case you so you can figure out if we caught you for something legit or its something you could potentially worm your way out of. Its not like I came out of nowhere with a read on you, the framework is in my iso, you could find it if you wanted to. I don't believe this is how town reacts to a little pressure, especially when they don't see themselves getting lynched from it.

[Formerfish]

who else makes sense for a bbt kill?

nobody

Orc, you don't seem to be a stupid player, but this comment is pretty fucking stupid.

[Formerfish]

Just calling it like I see it. His statement sounds forced as fuck and I really don't see how he could believe what he himself said. Come on, how often do scum outright kill those who are going after them? I know when I am scum I go after the best target, not the one making the most noise.

[Formerfish]

Orc your arguments are weak and reachy, and you are playing more and more like Thor would as the day goes on. I do not like this.

[Formerfish]

This would be the third time saying it, but ok:
You said scum would call out the idea of me killing BBT.
You called it out.
Therefore you are scum.
Questions?

This is not right. You and Boon need to stop throwing out these "scum-slips." Scum-slips, in actuality, are

very

rare, so it should be quite low on your radar.

I used the wrong term. I meant scum tell, which isn't as rare. They are actually pretty common, but usually in hindsight. Also, I have been aware you have been asking a question to me, and by god, for some reason I don't understand why everyone is town reading you either. Sure, you don't seem innately scummy, but you definitely don't seem town to me. I'm still on for the Zebulin/Acryon scum team. I'll get to that when I have the time to sit down and analyze your ISO's.

You are wrong Boon, move on. Well, half wrong at least.

[Formerfish]

Orc, my problem with you right now is how basic of an argument you are making and the fact that you are not allowing any other possibility to come forth. You are expecting scum to act a certain way and when they don't you are drawing conclusions from it. If your scum game is that transparent when you make moves then I would love to see it in action. Do you have any scum games you can link to? Are the kills all obvious and caused scum to get lynched as a result? Did youiimmediately come in thread at day start and point a finger at the player you implicated with the kill?

See that's the problem, you want this to be one way when its really another. Keep pushing your bullshit agenda though, the more you ignore the valid points Xiao is throwing at you the better you seem /sarcasm.

[Formerfish]

And the fact that you are saying that is probably exactly why he was killed.

[Formerfish]

Ok, Orc try to follow. BBT was very vocal in scum reading myself and Xiao. Scum kills BBT to cast suspicion on the two people being scum read by dead town. You saying that Xiao

must

be scum based off the night kill is exactly why BBT was killed. Now it could have gone a different way, the push could be for me to be scum just as easy. Scum would have seen an opportunity to cast suspicions on two people and not really care which way it went. And I do believe that scum would sit back and let the situation unfold organically. Coming out of the gate pointing a finger at the most obvious suspect is not exactly subtle. I mean let's think this through for a second. Scum comes out and says it must have been Xiao, it makes perfect sense. We lynch Xiao and he flips town. What does scum who pointed finger do, hand wave it away? Doing what you say is the logical scum tactic in this situation is actually counterintuitive to smart play here.

And you are going to have to buck up there and put your big boy pants on today and stop bitching about being scum read. You are not conftown and a lot of the town cured your slot did have has been spent on bad pushes.

Were you able to find any past scum games for me? Or care to respond to anything else from my post? Or Xiaos post?

[Formerfish]

Actually, orc, there were two kills.
BBT and Konowa.

What are you getting at Var?

[Formerfish]

Actually, I just had a thought Orc. You are pushing hard for Xiao right now because it "makes the most sense" with last nights kill. Say we lynch him and he flips town. Then what? You coming after me because I must have killed BBT for scum reading me? It seems like you are trying to queue mislynches here based off weak night kill analysis.

[Formerfish]

Acryon is not to be touched. Going after him would be a fairly large mistake for you to make.

[Formerfish]

I have a theory on how you could be scum that involves me being ok with lynching Xiao.

[Formerfish]

I'm sorry. I am at a family party. I'll reply in full later. Did Santa come early with a sleigh full of snark and sass all for little old uou?.

[Formerfish]

Back from vacation, rereading.

Rereading? Odd thing to say.

[Formerfish]

Zeb isnt going to happen it seems. No way I am voting with Zeb, so Boon is out. Xiao I do see a way that you are scum, but its not likely. Can I ask for a claim before voting to avoid a quick or self hammer?

[Formerfish]

Orc, what have I told you about acryon? Strike him from your list.

[Formerfish]

You said you would claim in 8 hours from 1 am. Its noon now, thats 11 hours and still no claim. Intent to vote you to l-1 has been made. Claim now.

[Formerfish]

Vote Xiao

[Formerfish]

Alright, so it is 6 left alive. That means we are probably looking at 5v1 correct? We could just start lynching people and hope we hit scum? What do you guys say? We could lay out by the bay. Jump in a bale of hay. We just may. It'll be one helluva day.

[Formerfish]

I know one of the remaining PRS, do we think there is another one out there? I kinda want to say no based off the 2 goon flips but balance isn't my strong suit.

[Formerfish]

How does everyone feel about a mass claim? I am normally against them, but feel like this situation would benefit from knowing who to lay off of and where pressure would be more useful. It would also significantly decrease the lynch pool.

[Formerfish]

Killer could make sense based off the nk. Orc had him as biggest town read, which was starting to fade away. Dude came in all hot and heavy to find scum and has done fuck all.

[Formerfish]

Werent you scum reading me yesterday based off the fact that I wouldn't reveal why I found you scummy?

[Formerfish]

I did?

[Formerfish]

If he is scum why would it matter where his vote is?

[Formerfish]

Former- Town
Acryon- Town

Boon- Null

Varsoon- null scum

Zeb- Scum
Killer- Scum

[Formerfish]

Varsoon, I'm getting very weary of you. Acyron is not scum and shall not be touched. That leaves a group of 4 to choose from. Boon isn't a bad choice because of all the wifom around him and scum is never ever ever ever ever ever going to kill him. Killer is a decent choice because the townie who threw a huge town read his way was souring on that town read, also he hasn't done much and after the way he came in I was expecting the second coming of scum hunting Jesus. Zeb could die. And then you, continuing to say that acryon could be scum even after me saying multiple times that going down that road is a mistake and will incur my wrath. Soft defense of Boon based off of...

[Formerfish]

Right and again we are veering close to trust tell territory with that.

[Formerfish]

Boon. Stahp. I'll explain after game.

Vote: Zeb

[Formerfish]

Acryon as other have said is town. Not I think he is town. Not he seems town. That guy is town.
Boon I am willing to believe is town for now because to do otherwise would mean other ramifications are evident.

Varsoon and Killer will work itself out.

Zeb is still doing basically nothing but defense.

We lynch Zeb, hope the game ends, if not then we wait to see what happens tonight. Go into tomorrow 3v1, decide if we go for a lynch of NL to force it to 2v1 and we have a better shot of winning this. Way I see it we have 3 as close to confirmed town as we are ever going to have.

[Formerfish]

Boons got a point there.

[Formerfish]

Are we all still against a mass claim?

[Formerfish]

Just saying that the more info we have the better decision we could make, we could also force scums hand if we chose poorly.

[Formerfish]

Listen. Since we all know our own alignments, and we are pretty much all saying Acryon is town, figuring out what else we have out there could help us narrow this down a little more.

[Formerfish]

Re: your question

I wish you both would shut up and we could lynch you.

[Formerfish]

Agreed.

[Formerfish]

Hey dumbass,

Acryon is not scum.

[Formerfish]

Hold on. Zeb, is that your exact role?

[Formerfish]

That seemed like it should have been an easy question to answer.

[Formerfish]

Is that it, or did you have to look back at the first page once you remembered thats where the sample role pm was?

pedit- @zeb

[Formerfish]

Zeb are you ESL?

[Formerfish]

Because you have an odd cadence to your posts and you seem to lack a basic understanding of sarcasm.

[Formerfish]

Ok, so Killer needs to claim, but not really. The lynch is down to Boon, Varsoon, and Zeb. My vote stands.

[Formerfish]

Varsoon, do you think we have on PR left?

[Formerfish]

*one

[Formerfish]

Why would there be a counterclaimer? Do you think Killer, as scum, would claim an actual role?

[Formerfish]

Unknown setup means scum would not claim a role.

[Formerfish]

You think our power was Joat, Vig, [Redacted]?

When I ran a mini normal I had 2 goons, a sk, and 4 town prs.

[Formerfish]

About fucking time we lynched his ass.

[Formerfish]

Damage is done son, admit you are scum so we can move on with our lives.

[Formerfish]

Unvote

[Formerfish]

I'm willing to play this whole thing out before deciding.

Boon you are pushing to hard right now. I can easily let the wifom take me again and lynch you.

[Formerfish]

Vanilla Town.

[Formerfish]

Well, this has turned into quite the conundrum.

[Formerfish]

Explain this ^

[Formerfish]

I'm cool with that.

[Formerfish]

Wait, like RL tomorrow or game tomorrow?

[Formerfish]

That explains why youve been playing like you dont give a fuck if you die. I think the no lynch today plan works for me. Gives us one less person to worry about tomorrow, and then narrows it down even further the next day.

Vote No Lynch

[Formerfish]

So its Killer, Zeb, Acryon and me left. Killer, why is Zeb scum? Zeb, why is Killer scum?

[Formerfish]

Acryon, looks like we have some talking to do.

[Formerfish]

I'm going to put together some vca in a little bit, see if that takes us anywhere.

[Formerfish]

Zeb, can you link to a scum game or two of yours? Killer, you too.

[Formerfish]

Varsoon

(3):

Thor665

,

BlueBloodedToffee

, Zebulin

Thor665

(1):

Xiao Long

acryon

(1):

Goblin/Formerfish

Boonskiies

(1):

randomidget

Not Voting (13):

Varsoon

,

Drake Crusader

,

Hayate Yagami/Konowa

,

Boonskiies

,

acryon

,

Phidragon/Orc

, gamsimbre/Killer

Varsoon

(5):

Thor665

,

BlueBloodedToffee

, Zebulin,

randomidget

,

acryon

Thor665

(1):

Varsoon

randomidget

(1):

Drake Crusader

acryon

(1):

Goblin/Formerfish

Phidragon/Orc

(1): gamsimbre/Killer

BlueBloodedToffee

(1):

Boonskiies

Not Voting (3):

Hayate Yagami/Kono

,

Phidragon/Orc

,

Xiao Long

randomidget

(3):

Drake Crusader

, gamsimbre/Killer,

Varsoon

Varsoon

(2):

Thor665

,

BlueBloodedToffee

Thor665

(1):

Varsoon

acryon

(1):

Goblin/Former

BlueBloodedToffee

(1):

Boonskiies

Not Voting (3):

Hayate Yagami/Kono

,

Phidragon/Orc

,

Xiao Long

,

acryon

,

randomidget

randomidget

(2):

Drake Crusader

, gamsimbre/Killer

Varsoon

(2):

Thor665

,

BlueBloodedToffee

Thor665

(1):

Allyra/Orc

gamsimbre/Killer (1):

Goblin/Former

Not Voting (7):

Hayate Yagami/Kono

,

Xiao Long

,

acryon

,

randomidget

,

Boonskiies

, Zebulin,

Varsoon

Allyra/Orc

(3):

Boonskiies

,

Thor665

,

Konowa

Thor665

(2):

Allyra/Orc

,

randomidget

randomidget

(1): gamsimbre/Killer

Varsoon

(1):

BlueBloodedToffee

gamsimbre/Killer (1):

Goblin/Former

Not Voting (5):

Xiao Long

,

acryon

, Zebulin,

Varsoon

,

Drake Crusader

Thor665

(3):

orcinus_theoriginal

,

randomidget

,

BlueBloodedToffee

randomidget

(3): gamsimbre/Killer,

Thor665

,

Boonskiies

gamsimbre/Killer (1):

Goblin/Former

Not Voting (6):

Xiao Long

,

acryon

, Zebulin,

Varsoon

,

Drake Crusader

,

Konowa

Thor665

(3):

orcinus_theoriginal

,

randomidget

,

BlueBloodedToffee

orcinus_theoriginal

(3):

Thor665

, Zebulin,

Boonskiies

randomidget

(1): gamsimbre/Killer
gamsimbre/Killer (1):

Goblin/Former

Not Voting (5):

Xiao Long

,

acryon

,

Varsoon

,

Drake Crusader

,

Konowa

Thor665

(7):

orcinus_theoriginal

,

randomidget

,

BlueBloodedToffee

, Zebulin,

Xiao Long

,

acryon

,

Boonskiies

orcinus_theoriginal

(1):

Thor665

randomidget

(1): gamsimbre/Killer
gamsimbre/Killer (1):

Goblin/Former

Not Voting (3):

Varsoon

,

Drake Crusader

,

Konowa

This is pretty much all of day 1.

[Formerfish]

Varsoon

(1):

Konowa

Boonskiies

(3): Zebulin,

acryon

,

orcinus_theoriginal

Konowa

(1):

BlueBloodedToffee

Goblin/Former

(1):

Varsoon

Not Voting (5):

Drake Crusader

, gamsimbre/Killer,

Xiao Long

,

Boonskiies

,

Goblin/Former

Konowa

(5):

BlueBloodedToffee

,

Varsoon

,

Boonskiies

, Gamsimbre/Killer,

Drake Crusader

Boonskiies

(3): Zebulin,

orcinus_theoriginal

,

Konowa

Not Voting (3):

Xiao Long

,

Goblin/Former

,

acryon

Konowa

(3):

Boonskiies

, Gamsimbre/Killer,

Drake Crusader

Boonskiies

(2): Zebulin,

Konowa

Xiao Long

(2):

Xiao Long

,

BlueBloodedToffee

Goblin/Former

(1):

Varsoon

Varsoon

(1):

orcinus_theoriginal

Not Voting (2):

Goblin/Former

,

acryon

Boonskiies

(4): Zebulin,

Konowa

,

Formerfish

,

Boonskiies

Konowa

(3): Gamsimbre/Killer,

Drake Crusader

,

Varsoon

Varsoon

(2):

orcinus_theoriginal

,

BlueBloodedToffee

BlueBloodedToffee

(1):

Xiao Long

Not Voting (1):

acryon

BlueBloodedToffee

(2):

Xiao Long

,

Formerfish

orcinus_theoriginal

(2):

Varsoon

,

Boonskiies

Boonskiies

(1): Zebulin

Konowa

(1):

Drake Crusader

Varsoon

(1):

orcinus_theoriginal

Formerfish

(1):

BlueBloodedToffee

Not Voting (3):

acryon

, killerjester,

Konowa

Drake Crusader

(3):

orcinus_theoriginal

,

Boonskiies

,

Konowa

BlueBloodedToffee

(2):

Xiao Long

,

Formerfish

Varsoon

(1): killerjester

Boonskiies

(1): Zebulin

Konowa

(1):

Drake Crusader

Formerfish

(1):

BlueBloodedToffee

killerjester (1):

Varsoon

Not Voting (1):

acryon

Drake Crusader

(5):

orcinus_theoriginal

,

Boonskiies

,

Konowa

,

BlueBloodedToffee

,

Varsoon

BlueBloodedToffee

(2):

Xiao Long

,

Formerfish

Varsoon

(1): killerjester

Boonskiies

(1): Zebulin

Konowa

(1):

Drake Crusader

Not Voting (1):

acryon

Drake Crusader

(4):

orcinus_theoriginal

,

Boonskiies

,

Konowa

,

BlueBloodedToffee

BlueBloodedToffee

(3):

Xiao Long

,

Formerfish

,

Varsoon

Varsoon

(1): killerjester

Boonskiies

(2): Zebulin,

Drake Crusader

Not Voting (1):

acryon

Drake Crusader

(6):

orcinus_theoriginal

,

Boonskiies

,

Konowa

,

BlueBloodedToffee

, Zebulin,

Varsoon

BlueBloodedToffee

(2):

Xiao Long

,

Formerfish

Varsoon

(1): killerjester

Boonskiies

(1):

Drake Crusader

Not Voting (1):

acryon

Day 2, for the Drake lynch. I am starting to see something, will look at the next days tomorrow.

[Formerfish]

Xiao Long

(2):

orcinus_theoriginal

, killerjester
Zebulin (2):

Formerfish

,

Boonskiies

Not Voting (4):

acryon

,

Xiao Long

,

Varsoon

, Zebulin

Xiao Long

(3):

orcinus_theoriginal

, killerjester,

Varsoon

Zebulin (2):

Formerfish

,

Boonskiies

orcinus_theoriginal

(1):

Xiao Long

Not Voting (2):

acryon

, Zebulin

Xiao Long

(3):

orcinus_theoriginal

, killerjester,

Varsoon

Zebulin (2):

Formerfish

,

Boonskiies

orcinus_theoriginal

(1):

Xiao Long

Boonskiies

(1): Zebulin
Not Voting (1):

acryon

Xiao Long

(3):

orcinus_theoriginal

, killerjester,

Varsoon

Zebulin (2):

Formerfish

,

Boonskiies

orcinus_theoriginal

(1):

Xiao Long

Boonskiies

(1):

acryon

Not Voting (1): Zebulin

Xiao Long

(3):

orcinus_theoriginal

, killerjester,

Varsoon

Zebulin (2):

Formerfish

,

Boonskiies

Boonskiies

(2):

acryon

, Zebulin

orcinus_theoriginal

(1):

Xiao Long

Xiao Long

(5):

orcinus_theoriginal

, killerjester,

Varsoon

,

Formerfish

,

Boonskiies

Boonskiies

(3):

acryon

, Zebulin,

Xiao Long

Day 3, Xiao lynch, dirty scumbutt.

[Formerfish]

killerjester (2):

Varsoon

,

Boonskiies

Varsoon

(1): killerjester
Not Voting (3):

acryon

,

Formerfish

, Zebulin

killerjester (1):

Varsoon

Varsoon

(1): killerjester

Boonskiies

(1): Zebulin
Zebulin (1):

Boonskiies

Not Voting (2):

acryon

,

Formerfish

Boonskiies

(2): Zebulin,

acryon

killerjester (1):

Varsoon

Varsoon

(1): killerjester
Zebulin (1):

Boonskiies

Not Voting (1):

Formerfish

Boonskiies

(4): Zebulin,

acryon

,

Varsoon

, killerjester
No Lynch (1):

Formerfish

Not Voting (1):

Boonskiies

Day 4 Boon mislynch

[Formerfish]

I think I know where my vote is going based off this exercise. I would like to hear from Acryon before I do anything though.

[Formerfish]

Damn it acryon, get the fuck in here.

[Formerfish]

I'm seeing Zeb scum based off the vca, and associative tells from Xiao. Discuss.

[Formerfish]

And now with that self vote I'm sure of it. If Zeb is town he is playing in direct contradiction to his win con with that vote.

[Formerfish]

Xiao forgetting he was in the game until post 380. Other Xiao posts soft defending Zeb against Boon and myself. The fact that Zeb was scumread by Orc, Varsoon, Boon and just about everyone else.

[Formerfish]

I'm working right now so I'll post when I can, bug I have to hide to do so, I'm trying.

[Formerfish]

Your incessant buddying here is annoying me. Good luck guys hope you make the right call! That's what Boon and I were talking about sounding fake. Zeb talk to me about playing against your win con.

[Formerfish]

Being the second vote in in situation where 3 are needed as town sure is playing against your win con. I vote you and game is over.

[Formerfish]

My alignment was never in question. Even at the beginning of the day you and killer just took my questioning of you in stride.

[Formerfish]

No one is conformed until a flip occurs. I could just be toying with you. Messing with your head a bit.

[Formerfish]

I've seen it happen before.

I would like Killer to weigh in on this before I vote.

[Formerfish]

Alright, I'm ready.

Vote Zeb

[Formerfish]

Acryon, hammer is all yours.

[Formerfish]

Varsoon, you said scum was between Zeb and Killer.

[Formerfish]

Get a room you two! Its like watching old people fuck.