Mini 1652: Sweet Dreams - Game Over!

[evilpacman18]

The wiki has a list of all normal roles, any of which could appear in this game. There are probably three scum if there is one scum team or two on each team if there are two scum teams. Usually two or three PRs in town, possible third party like a serial killer.

[evilpacman18]

That's a pointless semantics question. Bji you should just go look at the setups for some completed games in this forum...

[evilpacman18]

You don't even have to go read game threads, most completed games will have a full playerlist that you can deduce from looking at the list of people already dead and the mod's endgame post.

[evilpacman18]

If anybody's a vig, Lapsa's your man

[evilpacman18]

Wow this has to be a mislynch

[evilpacman18]

I'll come by later tonight. I saw your question Aeronaut

[evilpacman18]

Any chance of the mod force replacing Lapsa if we all request it?

mod?

[evilpacman18]

Well short answer to your question Aeronaut, I just think anyone who gets to L-1 like 3 pages into a brand new game is really likely to be town and we either have a really vote-happy town in which case we probably already are doomed or one or two scum was helping to push the wagon along. Here's every pisskop vote: up to where he got to L-1 (note I quoted Victor's vote and then his post with reasoning that came before it after the vote)

Spoiler: votes

VOTE: pisskop
Why not?

VOTE: Pisskop

Tell me more about your inability to play without spoonfed data; as well as your need to tell us about it.

This seems unnecessarily dickish. Pisskop did you draw scum?

If I said yes, would you promise not to lynch me?

If I said yes, would you believe me for even a second?

Lol at trying to scumread somebody for being aggressive.

I didn't realise being mean counted as aggressive play now.

I'm going to put bji in my town pile for the time being.

Odd that you'd know how to push the game forward but claim to have no clue what to do without your matrix.

Odd that you'd take my clearly joking statement about not knowing what to do without a matrix (sorry I didn't include a smiley, I thought it was so obvious as to not need one) and try to run this far with it. What is your agenda here? It feels like trying to deflect attention away from yourself.

UNVOTE: VictorDeAngelo
VOTE: pisskop

UNVOTE: VictorDeAngelo

VOTE: pisskop

I'm not claiming that you are scum, I'm voting you

Hey guys, catching up~

Tell me more about your inability to play without spoonfed data; as well as your need to tell us about it.

This is forced and overly aggressive, and you know it.

BJI, how would you proced with the game without a list of scum/PRs?

Well it's a new concept to me, and to be quite frank, I did not realize that there were mafia games played in which there was no matrix. I really liked the matrix concept in my newbie game; I thought it was a nice framework on which to hang my thought process. And I thought this game would end up being just like one of the newbie games (i.e. with announced PMs and a matrix), just with more people. I guess I was wrong. No biggie though, I'll adapt.

In terms of how I will proceed, I guess I will have a much larger space to search through mentally when trying to make reads. Right now the space feels so large that I am not sure how I will proceed. But each mafia game I've played has taught me something and I am sure this will be no exception.

I think you'll find that games that have closed setups are much more fun and challenging. Definitely a step up from newbie games.

Lol at trying to scumread somebody for being aggressive.

Well the multiple question marks and exclamation points at the end were intended to be the giveaway. Also the idea that someone would really believe that they don't know how to play just because there is no matrix to look at was, I thought, by itself obviously tongue in cheek.

Maybe I'm just humorless today. Been stressful now that it decided to rain ontop of the monthlong snow. Its a swamp out there, if snow was mud.

These two posts in conjunction make me think Pisskop is scum. See, you're trying to make a joke / discredit people who are scum reading you for your ridiculous push, and then in the next post, you're retracting and almost apologizing for it. It's like you realized people were going to call you out, acknowledged it, and then immediately stopped doing it so you could try something else.

VOTE: Pisskop

I'm not yellow Keely. Get your shit together.

Tell me more about your inability to play without spoonfed data; as well as your need to tell us about it.

Are you implying something here?

bji's facetious nature is rubbing me the wrong way, will probably try to separate that from my read. He seems more cautious than most newbies and I don't know what to think of that yet.

Fuck West

I have a role claim to make: I'm a time travelling cop.

Fucking scared the shit out of me

Aeronaut's vote is real

and all caught up. Baaaaa VOTE: Pisskop

Count Dooku's is negligible... RVS vote.
Victor's vote is actually not for bad reasoning... that post was unnecessarily dickish...
Now I personally subscribe to the old scumhunting adage that the third and fourth spots on a wagon are more likely to be scum. That's BJI and Lapsa here. Lapsa just needs to be out of the game so it's not really relevant. BJI's vote is not bad either...

hmm I'm kinda convincing myself here that the votes on pisskop are not scummy votes.

Aeronaut's vote is actually the first one I don't like, and it's not just the vote but the subsequent discussion where pisskop defended himself pretty well but Aeronaut was sort of dragging it out even though his argument was getting weaker. If one thinks of the previous votes as all town motivated, this would theoretically be a good place for scum to hop on to keep the mislynch wagon momentum going. Especially since all the pisskop votes were on page 2 and probably made with some kind of reckless abandon about the possibility of taking him to L-1 too early. Because Lapsa's vote is irrelevant, Aeronaut's is the one that creates the dangerous trend, as well as being the one that is most poorly reasoned.
And then JohnnyFarrar's just seems like he didn't know it was gonna be L-1... I'm gonna chalk it up to town reckless abandon.

84 might actually be Lapsa being somewhat town?

I have no clue why Nickname thought it would be a good idea to put pisskop back at L-1, that's really scummy.
Silverwolf seems town in 96, just for saying what I'm saying.

votes on pisskop are not bad reasoning but he still seems town to me
bji seems to be trying hard. a bit simple minded and a bit vote happy but town.

I'm down to lynch Nickname today

[evilpacman18]

You're right actually, he has a really roundabout way of putting out some content every now and then, maybe I'm giving him too much credit (he was lynched and subsequently modkilled in the last game I played) but he doesn't annoy me as much rn as he did when the game started.... it was leftover negative sentiment from the last game.

BJI your long post responding to my 208 is naive and I am not looking forward to parsing through it. So before I get to that I want you tell me if it is simply convincing enough that nobody else so far seems to have a problem with the logical consistency of my post besides you. Most of my answers to your questions would have to do with the amount of experience that I have and you don't and my familiarity with site meta... IE the third and fourth person on a wagon being more likely to be scum is actually still pretty effective. It (wagon placement) is not something people pay attention to much as scum (rightly so because trying too hard tends to be an obvious tell) so they slip into scummy slots almost naturally sometimes. Anyway it's not a huge tell, notice how I didn't end up scumreading the people (you and Lapsa) in those two slots because of their vote placement. It was just something to lead off with. And D1 quicklynches are never on scum. That's not something you could know with only one game under your belt but it's just the truth. So when someone gets to L-1 by page three, my reaction is to hardcore town read them. And yes it is a stupid idea to put someone at L-1 by page 3. Again, not something you could be expected to know but it's just not helpful. This is more my own personal mafia philosophy but I don't think vote pressure actually serves to make people react in ways that makes their alignment more transparent so I am a conservative voter. I usually don't vote D1 until I would be comfortable with that person being lynched. Which means that even though I said I'd be down to lynch Nickname, I didn't mean right now. That's just a direction I would be fine with this day eventually going in.f

[evilpacman18]

Eh I guess I ended up responding to the bulk of that post without really meaning too.

[evilpacman18]

Also Lapsa is not "likely scum," you're kidding yourself if you think you can read him. One thing you should know... anti-town play and scummy play are not the same thing. In fact they're usually very different.

[evilpacman18]

Also Lapsa is not "likely scum," you're kidding yourself if you think you can read him. One thing you should know... anti-town play and scummy play are not the same thing. In fact they're usually very different.

Motivation. Lapsa's votes make sense from a town motivation.

I agree. BJI, however, has admitted to not getting it at all but still thinks Lapsa is "likely scum"

[evilpacman18]

Eh I guess I ended up responding to the bulk of that post without really meaning too.

I know, it hurts your attempt at discrediting me because I'm a newbie, to take my post seriously enough to respond to it, right?

Uh I took it seriously enough to respond to it before I had even planned to respond to it, I'm not trying to discredit you, I'm just explaining how the logic in MY post that you tried to discredit makes perfect sense with experience.

[evilpacman18]

Also Lapsa is not "likely scum," you're kidding yourself if you think you can read him. One thing you should know... anti-town play and scummy play are not the same thing. In fact they're usually very different.

Motivation. Lapsa's votes make sense from a town motivation.

I agree. BJI, however, has admitted to not getting it at all but still thinks Lapsa is "likely scum"

It's true. I do not understand what motivates Lapsa, which is what I admit to not getting. But I do understand that whatever he's doing, it's not scumhunting, which is why I find him scummy.

That's what I'm saying about the difference between anti-town and scummy... not scumhunting is not necessarily scummy. Plenty of town don't scumhunt. Sad but true.

[evilpacman18]

Prod dodge, I'm playing in a funeral today but I'll be back later tonight

[evilpacman18]

Sorry dudes, crazy week. I'm pretty sure I'll be able to catch up after this 4 hour rehearsal I have tonight :,(

[evilpacman18]

finally getting a chance to catch up a bit

[evilpacman18]

I've been liking bji less and less. Like I think I'd be scum reading him already if I wasn't giving him the benefit of the doubt because of his noobiness. I think Count Dooku is a good example of new town who uses "common sense" to come to regrettably poor decisions about reads (IE. "Nickname replaced out, he must be scum running away"). BJI just seems to strain to accuse people with poor logic. West9 has some strong points about him in 386 and 387. also in 381 his criticism of Lapsa is followed by the admission that he is ignoring Lapsa, which is kind of damning because previously everything Lapsa did was a scumtell to BJI.

JohnnyFarrar: Lol sorry I should've been clear about the funeral or just not mentioned it. I'm a pianist so I get asked to play weddings and funerals and stuff. I don't know the person who died so I wasn't emotionally affected by it really, beyond the feeling you get that you kind of want to cry when everyone else in the room you're in is crying lol.

BJI, I probably would not have hammered Nickname at the point in time where you asked me the question. Does that devastate your worldview? You're starting to get tunnelly about a random statement that should have been defused by the fact that I didn't follow it up with a vote. I still have not voted, I clearly am not ready for the day to end. I have already explained this.

Anyway I'm reading Ari's opening post and I like it a lot so far. Although I would suggest, as I already have, that Count Dooku is the shiny example of friendly, harmless newbtown, and BJI is the one who's using newbiness as a veil for how much he needs rope.

Anyway the above is not actually much content but i'm caught up to page 19. the rest in the morning.

[evilpacman18]

surprised nobody is leading this vote off... good sign that it's the right vote. I'll get it started.

vote: BJI

[evilpacman18]

sometimes your posts remind me of The Onion's comics which always have "the author" drawn in the corner offering a punny one-liner...
http://www.theonion.com/articles/all-th ... red,36980/

[evilpacman18]

or
http://www.theonion.com/articles/con-wi ... ind,36603/

[evilpacman18]

Heyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy Inactivity. Everybody tell me why their vote is better than P Brain

My vote is worse than a Prolapsed Brain vote. I'd be willing to vote Prolapsed Brain but only because with a clear scum choice, I'd be as happy to see PB go as anyone.

I would also be willing to vote for evilpacman18, VictorDeAngelo, and Gliffie.

I'm trying to pick middle of the road players who do not seem to scummy nor non-scummy. I expect that this is how the scum are hiding.

Why is your vote on West then?

It will move when I make my choice between the above people I mentioned.

This is really scummy.

[evilpacman18]

We are not going to turn into ourselves in some kind of feeding frenzy. Staph.

If we all go our own seperate ways wrt scumhunting the scum can bloody hide with their

opinions

and

feelings

instead of the logic and facts that catch them

Nonsense. And BJI is scum.

[evilpacman18]

This is really scummy.

Please show me how it is scummy.

His vote is on a read that he has admitted has fallen through. He is waiting until he decides ir whatever but he could unvote or just not have his vote on a town read. Plus it is unclear what he is waiting for, usually when someone says something like that it does more to indicate that they plan to wait and see which way the town sways and vote along with that. None of those people are gonna be the lynch today so it'll be interesting and telling to see where he goes.

[evilpacman18]

I voted him before that post

[evilpacman18]

Just the little but that's in 516 I guess and I think I had some neutral interactions at the start of the game with him that look scummy now. I can check his iso for more specific examples than already posted but it might be easier if you just tell me why you think my stated reasons are insufficient.

[evilpacman18]

you've voted for like every other scum read (and some non-scum reads) almost instantly. You had your vote on a townread even though a three of your scum reads are highly unlikely to be the lynch today, just as with West. So ny question is... Which one of Victor or Gliffe is your scumbuddy?

[evilpacman18]

Idk where you come up with your game theory but it's weird and bad

[evilpacman18]

Day 1 gets boring, the game doesn't really get good till day three usually I think

[evilpacman18]

Also, I can imagine it would be exhausting keeping up the ruse as first time scum

[evilpacman18]

I haven't read since page 9, can someone tell me what I missed?

I'd say read from like 15. Please hurry up. Replace out if you have to before it's too much trouble to find a replacement.

[evilpacman18]

Ari, if many people are saying someone is scum but nobody is voting, it's often a sign that there is town consensus without help from scum trying to push a potential mislynch.

[evilpacman18]

I don't see it but based on Nickname I wouldn't be sad if that lynch went through anyway without my support

[evilpacman18]

Vote bji

[evilpacman18]

i'm still waiting for someone else to vote bji, just saying. I probably should figure out my other scum reads

[evilpacman18]

Pisskop you might as well tell us what you know now. I actually don't know how informed townie works either, do you know faction details? Number of factions and/or number of people per faction

[evilpacman18]

I'm here

[evilpacman18]

vote: Prolapsed Brain

I hope you're right Titus.

[evilpacman18]

bji I thought you left.

[evilpacman18]

also you can't make an alignment call on SW's replacing out.

[evilpacman18]

hardly.

[evilpacman18]

I'm doing some of it rn but there's been like 15 pages in like two days. I didn't even know I'd been gone for 48 hours, didn't seem that long.

[evilpacman18]

what I'm saying is, especially since nobody seems at all interested in a bji lynch, which would still make me happiest, I'm probably not gonna be super useful until the next game day. That said, I did notice that Prolapsed Brain seems pretty different from the last time I played with him and also decidedly unhelpful, so I'm not purely sheeping Titus here. Just a little bit. I know Titus, and I didn't have a scum read on that slot. Titus is wrong all the fucking time. If she's right and PB is scum then great, if she's wrong, well at least she's not calling for the wrong lynch in Lylo... she'll probably be more inclined to listen to other people having already been wrong this game.

[evilpacman18]

who has claimed / what are the claims

[evilpacman18]

I remember reading you claimed informed town and someone claimed neighborizer but I can't remember who

[evilpacman18]

nvm I found it. Any other claims?

[evilpacman18]

that's unreasonable I think. I've been around for the majority of the day and I've been clear about my reads. Just because I'm not interested in getting sucked into some of these clusterfuck conversations doesn't mean I am not involved.

[evilpacman18]

Eh I figured this would happen as soon as I saw Titus' flip. I don't even blame you guys, I honestly look pretty bad. But I'm not scum. Shrug.

[evilpacman18]

About 1011. I met Titus at a mafia meet and she plays in real life exactly how she plays online so I got used to her. I react the same every game to Titus now. For example, see post 26 in this thread from my last game:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=90&t=60276
I ended up losing that game for town but I think it might help my case here.

[evilpacman18]

I haven't been scum in a while but also I would NEVER have a relationship with a scumbuddy like the way I was communicating with Titus.

[evilpacman18]

do something pacman

I plan on it but I wanna reread the whole game without the bji blinders on. He's probably like the most likely player besides claimed PRs to be town now and I wanna look closely at SW's interactioms cuz I didn't pay much attention to her.
Didn't pay much attention to TMJ either but it's really like Titus to hard bus and null read or lightly townread her other scumbuddy so the scum flip there would not surprise me. We just have a lot of time.

[evilpacman18]

sorry I'm like this close to going V/LA but I'll try really hard to post tonight.

[evilpacman18]

Low blow

[evilpacman18]

One could easily say, why did you feel the need to write that entire huge post? Literally nobody wants to read that

[evilpacman18]

my day opened up perfectly today. I'm gonna start by reading and commenting on the end of D1.

[evilpacman18]

Reading D1 from page 25 cuz that was where I fell behind. I'm gonna start with 5 pages for now cuz of all the walls and because I don't want to make walls myself and see if I can do 5 at a time like today and tomorrow to get caught up.

This already sticks out

Yeah, Ari is scum.

As far as I remember, SW didn't say much about TJM and wasn't scumreading him as much as Titus pretended to be but SW must've known that TJM wasn't gonna be able to carry a game so it's really unlikely that she was trying to bus Ari. If I recall correctly, at this point in the game Ari was in a position where he could've been the potential lynch and SW was the first vote on it so I really don't think Ari is scum. I was townreading him already. aaaaaand I just remembered he claimed neighborizer. Oops.

Honestly rereading bji without the goggles on, he starts to look insightful and trustworthy. VAD looks town too, Prolapsed Brain does not. The contradiction in SW's questioning of Prolapsed below is telling, 1 because it's contradictory "you've been hopping on every wagon"/"you've been voting me all game" and unfocused and two because she doesn't try to actually accuse Prolapsed of being scum. She just gets frustrated... with her partner turning against her? Maybe.

Victor: What is scummy about 566? I like to scumhunt on my wagon. What is your issue with it?

P. Brain-your vote is extremely opportunistic because you've been hopping on every wagon you can find and not explaining your votes. You've been voting for me all game.

This game is becoming extremely frustrating.

sigh well that speculation kind of falls through a bit right on the next page when SW DOES vote for Prolapsed. I don't think my theory is completely implausible still.
The thing about SW is that on a second read, knowing she was scum, her frustratedness actually seems really sincere. As if she couldn't see why she was being wagoned when she felt like her partner was being way scummier than her. 634 is really telling. Not to mention the fact that as soon as SW replaces out, Prolapsed follows Titus onto the Ari wagon. Prolapsed should've been playing enough to know that both Ari and SW were really unlikely to be scum. In that scenario they were either both town or one was town and one was the counterwagon. We already know which was which now and if I'm right on Prolapsed then I don't think it's likely that there was scum on the wagon at the time Titus and Prolapsed jumped on it. In other words it was lucky and available for finishing off by scum, who didn't have much part in starting it. This is understandable because the Nickname slot just looked bad and some people found Ari distasteful anyway. This is what I'm referring to:

Votecount 1.11

Aristophanes

[6] - Count Dooku, West9, Gliffie, pisskop, Titus, Prolapsed Brain

Titus

[2] - VictorDeAngelo, bji

Prolapsed Brain

[2] - JohnnyFarrar, Aristophanes

bji

[1] - evilpacman18

Not Voting

[2] - Lapsa, Tjoe Min Ja

With

13

alive, it's

7

to lynch.

Deadline for Day One is Wednesday, March 18, @ 10:00 AM EST, which is in (expired on 2015-03-18 10:00:00).

So we have a pretty limited pool of potential scum to complete a trio starring Titus and Prolapsed. I'd say it's either TJM, Johnny, or West9 (I'd say Gliffe too but I trust bji's strong townread). However I remember really reading townreading West9 and I think unless Titus was negligent enough to not read SW's freakout and see how much she outed Prolapsed, it's also unlikely that she started to hardbus TJM after SW had tried to hardbus Prolapsed. Which leaves Johnny. I'll go back and check if that makes sense interaction wise later.
Also Titus votes TMJ in 743. She wouldn't have a scum read on both of buddies when she was likely to be the lynch.

Anyway that's 25-30.

[evilpacman18]

Has Prolapsed claimed or something? Why is nobody trying to lynch him?

[evilpacman18]

Jesus it's impossible to play a game these days without like at least half the playerlist replacing out

[evilpacman18]

I literally just posted the first of a series

[evilpacman18]

I did not. Its there. I apologize.

[evilpacman18]

I am aware, pisskop. That was a start. I am at my mechanic picking up my car. When it is done I am going to do 5 more pages. Is there anything you want specifically from me?

[evilpacman18]

Here's 30-35.

Before I start, I wanted to point out that it occurs to me that there is probably a significant reason why SW's very frustrated freak out involved yelling at bji and Prolapsed in particular. Not just because she pegged them as the two people who were attacking her the most. It seems like more than that. The way I see it the two options are that she either freaked out at both her scumbuddies for picking her out as the weak link or freaked out at one of her scumbuddies for doing that and tried to cover it with a second freakout on someone else. I really think it's impossible that neither of Prolapsed or bji is scum. Of course rn I think it's Prolapsed but I don't find it difficult to hold onto my previous scumread of bji even though he was so important in getting SW/Titus lynched. Just a thought. I'm gonna try to read these 5 pages without tunneling Prolapsed... TOO much.

nothing to say about 30...
751 is STUPID opportunistic. Prolapsed is eager to please the town PR. And never gave any explanation for why he unvoted SW in the first place.

this is mostly just Titus getting caught and a tearful Bji reunion...
Lapsa must've killed Count Dooku because of post 788 and subsequent pisskop attacks. Sensible but TJM was obviously the best pick. (Well Lapsa was the best pick for a vig kill but Lapsa being the vig fucks that up)
800 rings bells/validates the possibility of bji scum. Pisskop points out why in the next post but does not mention that 800 is not only wrong but scummy. I am mentioning that. Sorry bji, my townread on you was pretty short lived.

Also notice that the first prolonged period of time where bji is not voting coincides with the period of time where Titus is turning out to be the only viable vote...

828... defense of Prolapsed at the same time as admitting that he has not displayed any intent to make reads. This inadvertently plays down how hard Prolapsed had been pushing SW for most of the game which is also relevant and scummy. Idk if scum bji would target and defend a scumbuddy playing terribly though... too speculative.

the thing is bji seems always to work way too hard to be scum. but maybe he just has a lot of time irl. Still leaning way more towards Prolapsed as the scum in the duo.

overall there's not much to say on 30-35. Only like 5 people are posting for most of it. Gliffie's concern with the wagon reads as legitimate even though it's unfortunate as a defense of now-flipped scum.
Johnny is up in the air.

[evilpacman18]

Most of the posts in that region of the game are from you, Prolapsed, pisskop, and Titus. And the two dead town. I've given At least some reason for town reads on several other players involved around there, and also suggested who alternative choices for scum but haven't seen much from those people (Johnny and West did not post much between 25 and 35, for instance) to supplement a proper read of them

[evilpacman18]

I'm not sure you have provided much reasoning for why SW would rage against scumbuddies. And furthermore, I didn't see SW yell at ProlapsedBrain during her freak out at all. She yelled

about

him, but not at him. She yelled

at

me.

This is a good observation. I think the different nature of her approach to the two of you probably suggests only one of you is scum and again I'm still leaning towards whoever just replaced into Prolapsed's slot. SW's yelling about Prolapsed kind of sounds like "how come you guys can see through my ruse but not his?" Do you not see that subtext? I mean I guess I can't expect you to see subtext that hints at the possibility of your being scum regardless of your alignment but it seems clear to me that the nature of the her breakdown has to do with more than just being found out.

[evilpacman18]

I still think you're town based on my own reads, I'm just saying, something was going on there with either her and Prolapsed, her and you, or both.

[evilpacman18]

West: I'm trying really hard not to set up that dichotomy, and I wouldn't call it a strict dichotomy (it's not either/or, it's either or ,or and) but it was hard to avoid on every level while I was reading

[evilpacman18]

west, did you not also find my response to Titus "waffle-y?" I mean I kinda soft defended her in a similar manner to Gliffie. I thought she was town. That's what I read in Gliffie's defense of Titus too. Sincerity about not liking the wagon.

[evilpacman18]

Sure....

vote: Tjoe Min Ja

[evilpacman18]

I really think it's impossible that neither of Prolapsed or bji is scum.

Sure....

vote: Tjoe Min Ja

Mind explaining for me? Was it just that VDA asked really nicely?

Basically... Scum lynched on D1 = great time for policy lynch D2. He's not trying and can't really be read without any input. And he's the only player this is true for. Might as well separate wheat from chaff

[evilpacman18]

You can probably hammer if his next post is a claim too... Let's not act like it'll be anything but a VT claim

[evilpacman18]

?????

[evilpacman18]

That's a completely wasted vote. Especially if you agree with lynching TMJ AND realize it's happening no matter what, you might as well finish it, give the mod a chance to replace Gliffie, and try again tomorrow after evaluating her replacement. Your vote on her slot shows that. Honestly if TMJ ends up being a town flip you're gonna start to look pretty bad.

[evilpacman18]

I thought from a quick look at the vote counts that Gliffie and West9 come off the worst

[evilpacman18]

Bad idea to eliminate the people who voted for SW and/or TJM. Just look at how hard Titus was trying to get rid of TJM. Homestly Victor is not a bad vote but I'll go into depth when I'm on a computer about who our best choices are based on the votes

[evilpacman18]

Prodded. Busy weekend, I'll post tonight or tomorrow morning

[evilpacman18]

can I just sheep VDA for the rest of the game?

[evilpacman18]

actually I checked who he was voting and now I'm serious

vote: bji

[evilpacman18]

I am paying attention, have you seen how spot on VDA is without even seeming like trying? And I've had a gut scum read on bji that I can't shake literally the entire game. I wanna know if I'm right and I've got the player who's gonna end up being town MVP on the vote already.

[evilpacman18]

that's fine too. bji and west are my top two options

[evilpacman18]

Oops. Sorry about needing the prod.

I'm still happy with the West lynch.

Pacman, do you really think that Bji was bussing SW? And wrote those giant long walls in order to do so?

Even bji denied my suggestion that he might be unlikely to be scum simply because of the amount of leg work he does.

[evilpacman18]

This is gonna look scummy probably but I already pointed out that I thought West and Gliffie were scummiest from VCA. so

vote: texcat

shrug, this game's in the bag regardless of the flip here.

[evilpacman18]

that kill is practically asking for a West lynch. Why have neither claimed PR died? What's the deal with the neighborhood?

[evilpacman18]

there's not an informed townie and a town neighborizer and a town jailer and a town vigilante. One of the two remaining PR claims is almost certainly scum, especially following the two goon flips. We need to massclaim just to clear it up but I don't expect anything besides VT claims left.

[evilpacman18]

today is a better time to no lynch than tomorrow with 4p left.

[evilpacman18]

I don't trust anyone enough

[evilpacman18]

What's with the neighborhood?? Has anyone been added? Who was supposed to be in it? I'm surprised there's less talk about it

[evilpacman18]

So about that West lynch.

Still not interested.

Also my lynch pool is at PoE.

VOTE: Evil Pacman

If it's not him, it's Pisskop.

This is reckless. I agree it could be pisskop but you can't possibly be sure enough about West and Chaos for this to be a good idea

[evilpacman18]

It's probably pisskop then. Is informed scum ever a thing? Or did he just get lucky and guess right that there were no investigative roles?
Ignoring for now that I am your primary lynch candidate

[evilpacman18]

Actually PK has to be scum, thinking about it for a sec. There's no reason not to come right out with that information

[evilpacman18]

And too many PRs

vote: pisskop

[evilpacman18]

unvote

Like if pisskop knew there were no investigative roles, why didn't he say so in his first post? There's no reason to hold onto that information

[evilpacman18]

Ok well we know Ari is town then.

[evilpacman18]

Do you think Titus was low-key protecting her scum neighborizer buddy Ari when she suggested that a scum neighborizer would be practically bastard modding?

[evilpacman18]

Cuz I've kinda been subconsciously working under the assumption that that must be true but it's probably not and a mafia neighborizer probably balances well against a vig, jailer, and informed townie. Shrug... too much setup spec?

[evilpacman18]

I discounted the possibility of Ari being scum ever since TMJ flipped red. So should everyone else.

Why

[evilpacman18]

I trusted Titus, I've already gone over that.

[evilpacman18]

And TJM didn't mention much of anything

[evilpacman18]

I'm VT btw, popcorn West

[evilpacman18]

I discounted the possibility of Ari being scum ever since TMJ flipped red. So should everyone else.

Why

TMJ tried to get Lapsa to hammer Ari, after Ari claimed neighbour. If Ari was his buddy and he knew Ari could prove his role, why would he do that?

Hmmm true. Ok.

[evilpacman18]

If your lynch choice is right then it's all the same, no?

[evilpacman18]

Actually it's not that big a deal if it's now been established that both pisskop and Ari are pretty for sure not scum. I'm just saying I can't know what Chaos is, even though I'm not scum reading him, so that leaves me with the options of you, VDA, or Chaos being scum, and VDA should presumably be considering the options of me, you, or Chaos being scum. Self-assuredness when we have two lynches left and three targets freaks me out. But you're probably scum so everything's ok.

[evilpacman18]

"I can't wait til they're all done talking so we can lynch Wake and get this over with"

[evilpacman18]

I did mean West lol

[evilpacman18]

I mean tactically a no lynch is the best decision, as much as I want to get this over with.

vote: no lynch

[evilpacman18]

VDA, what's the Pisskop case?

Mostly unanswered questions.

1) There seems to be no scum on the early Pisskop wagon, which seems odd if Pisskop is town.

2) There's some setup stuff but I'll come back to that after the massclaim.

3) I'm been getting bad vibes off his constant talk of how he got Titus lynched. And yet looking back there were actually several players scumreading SW before Pisskop. I'm getting slight vibes of a player who saw Titus going down, hard bussed when a gap emerged and now desperately trying to make himself appear cleared because of it.

4) I'm pretty PoE here but I'm confident Ari is town, I'm relatively confident your town based on your vote that put Titus at L-2, and I think Chaos is town because there three wagons at the end of Day 1 and the other two were scum. That means it's EPM or PK.

That all said I actually think it's far likelier it's EPM than PK. West, what are you currently thinking? Do you need a case on Pacman?

Also, I'm vt. Dunno where the popcorn is but there you go.

I don't mind this case. I think it's totally possible that pisskop just gambled and got it right. I mean as far as I can tell, informed townie isn't listed anywhere on the wiki as a normal role so yeah. If West flipped town I'd probably be voting PK.

[evilpacman18]

The other thing is it's just weird that neither claimed PR have died

[evilpacman18]

Lurking would be dumb af as a tactical choice from Ari.

[evilpacman18]

mod: is it 3 to no lynch?

[evilpacman18]

being nitpicky about view count? pointless

[evilpacman18]

pisskop your vote footprint is horrible, idk that you wanna talk about VCA

[evilpacman18]

Don't be a scum fuck, any potential night kill will help to clear up the game for SOMEONE, there's basically no good kill for scum to make tonight because of that so it's definitely the best day to no lynch. And I'm not gonna explain how your votes are ugly when you're the one saying VCA is clear and then just quoting every votecount. You voted scum once and supported a bunch of bad/counter wagons.

[evilpacman18]

actually pisskop is clearly scum. I will even sacrifice myself today if you guys promise to lynch him after I flip town. His informed townie claim was, in hindsight, an attempt to at least out a PR by encouraging a counterclaim before he got lynched. If you look at his votes, it's pretty apparent that he just tried any wagon that he thought might go through. There's no consistency in his reads, he voted Aeronaut for a while then quit, voted me for a while, then quit, voted Gliffie for a while then quit. All mislynch attempts that the town didn't take to (this would be elucidated by my flip).
Honestly I lied in 1668, Chaos is the obvious pick for the NK and we're gonna be no better off tomorrow than today so lynch me if you must and NL tomorrow if you must but I'm telling you I just figured this game out. Everything is clear to me now and I don't mind having to make you all sure I'm town to make you guys sure too.

[evilpacman18]

The game just doesn't balance well with an informed townie and the only reason Ari hasn't died is because if he was killed, pisskop staying alive would be too obviously weird.

[evilpacman18]

You ever have those moments where you're just sitting in bed and suddenly everything makes sense? Like usually it's an epiphany about life but this time the key to everything that has happened and is happening in this game that previously had me confused, paranoid, and uncertain has been handed to me and my doubts have melted away instantly.

VOTE: PISSKOP

[evilpacman18]

It's more than inconsistency, he's barely followed through on any of his scum reads. Just look at his read on me, I've only became scum to him again since I became likely to be lynched again.
The chances of his claim working out that way are not high, Ari, but they're not exactly low either. Many games lately have not had investigative roles, especially since neighborhoods are popular right now and a cop / neighborhood combo is pretty overpowered.

[evilpacman18]

You guys can lynch me, just don't fuck it up after I'm gone.

[evilpacman18]

lol I considered it but I'm too against self-voting on principle

[evilpacman18]

I'll leave it to west

[evilpacman18]

Defending yourself for tomorrow already?

[evilpacman18]

Cheet I always welcome feedback, feel free to post here. Thanks for modding!

[evilpacman18]

Are these reviews going to be actual like write-ups?

[evilpacman18]

I modded a mini once and hated almost every aspect of it except watching people be wrong and so full of themselves. I mean my pre-death pisskop rant for instance, I was like 100% sure I had just figured the game out and everything made sense and Iwas like WHY CAN'T THEY SEE THIS!? And then it turned out to be CO... So yeah I'm looking forward to your thoughts