Mini 1655: Delicious Mafia (Game Over, Perfect Scum Win!)

[Kop]

there are a plethora of things I can do to get this game off on the wrong foot so I'll do this
VOTE: choof

dude's meta sucks

i now know exactly what a flashlynch is and i also know how to deal with them without thinking i'm getting hazed
i grow in power

also
first

What is this?

[Kop]

Dude in the blue shirt needs to lighten up a bit, LOL.

If he were any paler he'd be translucent.

VOTE: Ozgin

He's already lurking.

Where do we see users lurking?

[Kop]

There's something wafting on the air. A bird? A plane? No. More subtle.

Could it be a smell? It sure smells great.

Smells nice.
Gorgeous.
Yummy.
Maybe...

maybe even

delicious.

I guess the guy in the blue shirt isn't a fan of the mexican wave.

[Kop]

Dude in the blue shirt needs to lighten up a bit, LOL.

If he were any paler he'd be translucent.

VOTE: Ozgin

He's already lurking.

Where do we see users lurking?

jumpin into rvs being overtly serious, sounds like someone got a role they didn't like
lol owned

Lol owned lol

[Kop]

VOTE: Boonskiies

[Kop]

Hello Silverwolf, hello Boonskies, and that's everybody on this list I've played with.

Hello unenthusiastic Bill O'Reilly. Hello sort of enthusiastic Donald Trump. Didn't expect to see you here.

VOTE: Kop

His username should clearly be taken as a fakeclaim.

Damn you got me.

[Kop]

VOTE: Boonskiies

didn't think you would be participating in the rvs, thanks for joining the festivities

Didn't want to be left out of the loving

[Kop]

actually i have a question(s) because i want to inject some shenanigans into the game as early as possible since i won't be here for the next day or so

why is reading a player's completed games such a prominent tactic on this site, and how do you defeat confirmation bias when it inevitably arises due to reading someone's meta, especially if you didn't play with that person in the games you're reading

i'm asking because on the other sites i play mafia on, we almost never openly talk about re-reading games. would it have something to do with the site being dedicated to the game, so it draws a significant number of unique players?

Meta is basically you can get a feel for what they are like when they are town, and when they are scum. If someone is town, they are probably more active and digging, where if they scum, they aren't going to be as high up in activity sense, or digging as much. However I don't like using previous games as a meta to how they are here, in this game.

[Kop]

I could meta read someone in there scum game, which could be the same here, and end up chasing after a town folk because they played a similar way from previous game as scum but they are really town.

[Kop]

However you feel like answering choof, just make it good.

read my meta, nothing I do is good

1 - I asked psyche if I would get town or scum points if I followed his wagon, I intended to hold myself to following him, as seen with the subsequent vote on bookitty. He swapped his vote to me, so I followed suit.

2 - A vt's most powerful tool is their vote. People can be urged to vote one way or another, but it's ultimately that person's decision.

3 - Scum know that I'm green. A self-vote would make it that much easier to get a green (and/or blue) lynched. In the event that I do get lynched, it might be worth looking at the tail end of my lynch to help with the scum hunt.

I have no power-role (or maybe I do, a gentleman never tells), therefore I'm expendable. Dying doesn't bar me from taking a win with town.

The one thing I don't like about this post, is he has claimed rather too easily, under zero pressure, doesn't look like being lynched anytime soon and he is now saying he is expendable. There is a few ways that I can take this post, one way I can take it is, he is town and he is telling the truth, and we leave him alone and move onto our next real target. The other way of taking it, is he is scum hiding behind this and leading us to believe that scum would not do this on day 1 and we leave him alone, and never pay much attention to him when we wriggle the numbers down when he starts to enter our thoughts again.

I am not a big fan of this self vote thing, what it achieves is nothing, it's anti town and doesn't allow us to learn anything from it. If it got to a lynch, it removes one voter from the list that we can analyze.

I am going to give Choof the benefit of the doubt on this but it is something I am noting down and will refer back to when required.

I am getting town vibes from Riblet, on his strong stance.

As I hit submit, new posts are in the game.

My stance has changed on Choof, looking at his latest posts he now claiming a power role. But he is expendable, last time I checked power roles aren't expendable.

[Kop]

If choof isn't scum, the only thing he is achieving at the minute, is a grand job at muddying the waters. I don't like it.

[Kop]

Choof, self.voting is not a joke or etc on this site. So please stop and yeah I know the impulse but stop. Switch to tunnel mode and ream someone who is being a floppy fish.

Riblet, you don't care if he's town or scum? Are you a serial killer? Also totes gonna vote you for not caring.

VOTE: Riblet

Also people not answering rqs questions, do you prefer thumbscrews or tongue twisters the literal version?

How do you know there is a serial killer in this game? Would a Serial killer working by himself come out and basically make it obvious?

[Kop]

Choof if you are town, you really need to stop acting like this. All you are basically doing is preventing us all scumhunting whist the scum just sit back and allow us to squabble you and buy an easy first lynch.

[Kop]

We are going to be drawn in to a debate that is going to go around in circles.

I have a feeling that Riblet is town, that's the vibe that I am getting. And Choof, I think is town as I said before, I am going to go by the assumption that scum would not be that careless on day one.

One thing that doesn't appease me though, is the hint at a PR, if which is indeed the case, I wouldn't want to lynch him in case of him telling the truth.

[Kop]

UNVOTE: Boonskiies

[Kop]

VOTE: house

Claim scum as humor, we believe it's humor, he carries on playing the game. Nope, you claim scum in any sense, needs rope imo.

[Kop]

I think I need translation for House. I get that he has an unusual sense of humor, and I think it's going to take some time for me to follow it.

Yeah, but you don't claim scum and pass it off as humor.

[Kop]

House is pinging scum to me because:

-Too friendly, some friendliness with us towards each other is normal and expected but as town he'd be trying to interact with me, reaction test me, something to figure me out.

-Votes scum claims as town and has said he has never claimed scum as town, passing it off as a joke under these conditions is suspicious

-OMGUS, defensively votes me and doesn't confront me over my vote for him

I confronted you and you wrote it off as OMGUS when the fact is that you're misrepping my play.

You voted for me. You are not confronting me or interacting with me. I didn't misrep anything and you aren't even really defending yourself.

And you're going out of your way to avoid mentioning the fact that I don't defend myself as town, aren't you?

Not that I give a damn whether I'm lynched or not, but you're scumwolf for all the lying and bullshit that you've been posting to sell my lynch.

Your ass needs to be turbolynched tomorrow.

If your town, you would give a damn. Your sole objective as town is too scum hunt, and want to win the game. This whole attitude is wrong on so many levels.

[Kop]

And for the record you voted kop for voting house because he claimed scum. That makes you just as bad as all the people who voted me for voting choof for the self vote. Its not a legit scum hunting vote. Its an opportustic vote.

In reality, I seen the post of House claiming scum, I can take it one of two ways, it's humor and I ignore it but could be setting up for later on in the game when the numbers start getting smaller, or the other way, I push it and see what comes of it. What happened was after all that scenario, I got a few votes casted on me, unfairly for me jumping on a player claiming scum, I'm not going to sit on my hands and just let the humor play the game. I think some of those votes on myself were very optimistic, seeing a fairly easy target with very weak reasoning and hoping for the best. I need to go back and have a look at those votes, and then have a look at the player that has casted the votes.

[Kop]

Kop is town, don't lynch him.

Mason, Neighbor, or are you a Scum and Kop isn't? Which one of the three?

This is one post that I do not like, he hasn't exactly been active in the game since it started, but he comes steaming in with a post humorously role fishing, because with that smiley on the end, he is going to pass it off as a joke post and that it shouldn't be taken seriously. However that is a reaction test behind that 'joke', role fishing on day 1? In a game where there is very little demand for everybody to role claim, isn't something that I am warmed too.

[Kop]

Are we supposed to say, "Ooh, ahhh, how town!"?

Sarcasm is a lowest sign of wit.

It doesn't suit you.

[Kop]

Are we supposed to say, "Ooh, ahhh, how town!"?

Sarcasm is a lowest sign of wit.

It doesn't suit you.

On the contrary, sarcasm is the laziest form of wit.

Therefore, it suits me perfectly!

[Kop]

Wait, what???

The only reason I unvoted kop was because you vouched for him!

vote kop

Just finished work, and wasn't on much yesterday evening so going to have a catch up.

However the quote in question was on the last page, I am going to start with this one.

Yesterday tea time I said I was going to look through and analyze the votes that were placed on myself when a wagon was building momentum, to see if I could see anything out of the blue. T S O started the wagon, (I am aware that I was voted for previous to that vote, but that was in RVS, didn't consider that a serious vote), Psyche jumped onto that with a opportunistic vote in my opinion, as T S O gave valid reasons as to why he started the vote for me, whilst Pysche jumped on saying it seems more solid. No reason given, other than that. He jumped off reason is because Silverwolf vouched that I am town, and now he has jumped back on again (for no reason that I can actually see, would like some clarification as to why this vote is here). It just is seemingly odd that we have been here once already, and we seemed to have a few leads that we could have gone down, and he wants to pursue me again, he was opportunistic in voting for me first time, and now he is opportunistic again.

i'm not very good as a scumhunter
but i want to be a good team player or a good follower
for that to work, though, we either need a credible leader or a lot of synergy
we've got to look past each other's flaws and focus on what we can do to solve the problems

This is another post, that I don't like, using the excuse of not being a very good scumhunter. At the minute, nobody is in a position to say that they are a good scumhunter right at this minute as it's everybody forming opinions and using the information that is being gathered in the thread (nothing guaranteed that we are actually chasing scum), to make that statement that I'm not very good as a scumhunter is raising suspicion for me, just seems like you'd be happy to sheep any wagon that forms, which you have done as pointed out above, in doing so, takes the attention of you to which you can refer to this post quoted where you state you aren't a good scumhunter, more a follower if attention is brought to you.

If we get a confirmed townie, your going to follow them in whereever they choose to go, and that's what something scum do in my experience of my time of playing mafia.

[Kop]

If we get a confirmed townie, your going to follow them in whereever they choose to go, and that's what something scum do in my experience of my time of playing mafia.

Why would scum follow confirmed town instead of kill them?

During the day, in this thread, they will follow the confirmed townie, then when he/she is killed over night, in scums mind it shouldn't link them to the death.

[Kop]

This is another post, that I don't like, using the excuse of not being a very good scumhunter.

I read that post as Psyche saying, "I'm not a good Day 1 leader and I think we need one."

That's not the way I read it. It can be interpreted as I'm not a good day 1 leader, or not a good day leader at all.

[Kop]

Reminder: If someone asks sincerely to not be called a name, please remember to try to respect those wishes as much as possible while still playing to your win condition. Take that as you will.

What's the vote count?

Working on it

[Kop]

and SW definitely seemed to be claiming masons (at least that's how I took it). I don't understand anyone vouching for a player like that so early in a game.

Bang on the money. Myself and Silverwolf, are both town masons.

[Kop]

Alright, SW. It's in the open now. Who looks the worst to you for the Kop wagon?

Myself personally, I said it before, Pysche was the one that was the most suspicious that hopped onto my wagon. T S O was originally the one that started the votes off, but he gave a valid reason to why he thought I was scum and tried to rally it up, Pysche joined saying it was solid enough. Opportunistic 2 votes on me, and still didn't give a vaild reason to why those votes were placed, only when he was questioned.

That should of told you I was trying to WIFOM it and you wouldn't stop.

No. It told me "backtracking". Because I thought Kop was scum. The only reason I stopped thinking Kop was scum was because you vouched for him. And then you said that your vouch was based a read. If I thought you were town, I would return to voting Kop because of course I don't trust your reads. If I thought you were scum (and I suspected you were because what I saw was "backtracking"), I would return to voting Kop because now I had a column of dominoes to topple.

Ever heard of anchoring? I'll repeat this to you again, because it was the basis of your bad Riblet vote, too. When you're scumhunting, you can't just think about what

you

would do or think, or about what someone

should

do or think, because other people are different from you and will see the world in a different way.

So in that statement, you are just happy to bandwagon? It takes one person to vouch then you unvote, on that basis, then proceed to push for a good enough reason why she said what she said to see if you could get a role claim. It was quite clear why she was strong in saying that I was town, and we tried to leave it at that, I even claimed that she had a town read on me to which she said the same before me, but you still pushed and pushed and whilst other things were going on, you were still wanting to push for that role claim that you wanted, how can you not see that as hard claiming?

That's a bunch of crap. Scum aren't likely to waste their NA's on Masons. They *might* have on softclaiming Masons, though...

Scum don't NK masons? Really?

Like, can you point me to one mini normal won by scum where there were masons and both survived the whole game?

Do you not realise that now the 2 masons are out, that leaves 11 players unconfirmed, to which however many scum is in the game, say for example if there is 2, there is 9 players left in the pool of players left, to which would contain a few town PRs however many there is, they will aim for that pool because the chances of hitting a strong PR is more chance than just simply shooting a mason that won't cause them as much harm as a cop would. Cop now has 2 players to take out of his options, leaving 10 players to think about.

So in reality, if you were scum, would you be happy to simply shoot a mason, or would you aim for the pool of 8/9 players that would contain town PR's which can hurt scum more than what masons can?

[Kop]

So in reality, if you were scum, would you be happy to simply shoot a mason, or would you aim for the pool of 8/9 players that would contain town PR's which can hurt scum more than what masons can?

If the mafia shoots an unconfirmed player who hasn't claimed, they're probably hitting a VT and making it easier for us to find scum. But I'll repeat my question - can you point me to one mini normal won by scum where there were masons and both survived the whole game?

If the answer's "no", then something about your premise is

flawed

. Probably the one where scum should leave a pair of confirmed town alive for the rest of the game.

Over here, I have only played 3 games. I have played a lot over at another board, but in general we don't use masons in games in those set ups.

They may hit a VT, but they could also hit a doctor, or a cop in the same process, those 2 roles there can give scum more grief than what masons can. When I've been on a scum team, our main priorities was always to try and locate the cop or doctor.

[Kop]

Myself personally, I said it before, Pysche was the one that was the most suspicious that hopped onto my wagon. T S O was originally the one that started the votes off, but he gave a valid reason to why he thought I was scum and tried to rally it up, Pysche joined saying it was solid enough. Opportunistic 2 votes on me, and still didn't give a vaild reason to why those votes were placed, only when he was questioned.

How is it that in one breath you admit that the votes for you were totally valid and in another declare them opportunistic??

2 opportunistic votes from you.

1st joining T S O, 2nd was made a pages later.

[Kop]

VOTE: Tn

[Kop]

I'd like to see either TN or Wrong Song lynched.

Wrong Song - He has read through the game, and states that he doesn't like my sheepish vote on house, but the person I joined on that wagon is my fellow mason member, at the time nobody knew that we were masons, but now it's public knowledge that we are both masons, and that read should be read differently now as you can clearly see that's two masons gone onto that wagon which we discussed together. So with that post, it's telling me wrong song has read the thread not in great detail and just basically offering that opinion to make it look like he has.

TN - Do not like his push on Pysche. Not really giving me any reads at all, and just don't like the game style he has implemented in this game.

[Kop]

Oh and Kop I already said I could have easily missed things reading the thread. IMO half the thread was a majority of shitposting, trolling and a bunch of useless fluff where as content and reads were trying to be gained, but unfruitful because of said things. There was too many inner fights that didn't do much for me because I couldn't read further into them.

Yes there is a lot of shit posting and trolling, but the masons claim was there in discussion for quite a bit, very hard to miss that claim. If you seen the claim, and started to work alongside SW on that basis, you still brought up a point to bring against the other mason?

Sorry If I'm misreading this, but I just can't quite work out, how come you seen the mason claim and started to work with SW on that, then still bring up a point to go against me even though you know that I am the other mason.

[Kop]

We need some more input from Boonskies, bookitty. Just seem happy to be lurking in the distance, letting the main chore of the main posters argue the toss, it would be nice for them to actually give us some input and there views from another light.

[Kop]

What has bookitty actually done this game, apart from a vote for me during RVS? I don't recall any real contribution.

[Kop]

Lurkers aren't PL, or we are trying to put it that way. It's a case of that there is a chance that one of the scum is amongst the lurkers, that will be sitting and letting us all fight it out. It is sometimes wrong, sometimes right, it's not really alignment indicative but there is always that chance there could a scum member in the lurkers.

[Kop]

I used to lurk when scum as it avoids posting great deal of information that could be picked apart, or possible slips. When your town, there is zero reason apart from RL activities that should stop you being active in the thread. If your RL is getting in the way, you should request V/LA or request out, simple.

[Kop]

Don't like the game play from Wrong Song and just don't feel he has done enough to make me town read him. He's my top scum read at the moment, followed by TN/Ozgin.

UNVOTE: TN for now.

[Kop]

Not to mention he could be using that frustration to make him look like town.

[Kop]

I intend to hammer Wrong Song

Now would be the time for Wrong Song to claim, and give us his reads.

[Kop]

If we do lynch him due to his lack of claim or proper reads that can help us as town, we can analyze his wagon because it will contain some information that can help us a lot, and also a night kill that can tell us some information, as well as some possible information from possible PRs we have.

If he flips town, it wouldn't restrict us going into day 2, in my opinion.

[Kop]

Yikes, what's the hurry guys?

We've got over a week before deadline. I like the WS lynch, but I don't get why it has to happen right now.

There is no hurry, we both have only posted our intent. Now he can see that this pressure may force his hand to do something other than channel his thoughts and give us good information that may make us reconsider our thoughts.

Right as of now, my scum reads are on WS, Tn then Orzgin.

[Kop]

VOTE: Ozgin

[Kop]

That's one of the reasons I was also pushing for the WS wagon, he did also make a post aimed at me and how he felt uneasy by my vote on house, even though it was common knowledge I was a mason alongside SW, and then went onto say that is why he was working with her, then begs the question why bring my name into the mix? If a post feels uneasy but is person is confirmed town, surely you would push it to one side?

[Kop]

I don't know if it's the same philosophy over here, but I go by similar scenarios that scum don't need to read threads in great detail, as they have facts of who is town, so in reality they can pick up a few points that they can raise up to get a wagon formed, but not look at the bigger picture of what has gone on.

Take a look at his posts against Saul, the claim is there and no CC so we have no real choice to believe that claim, it's like if a cop claimed, with no CC, I am not prepared to push for a dead cert town lynch day one, just because I didn't believe him. We can see the evidence on day two, one if he isn't night killed due to the claim, and two, he can't give us proof of the investigation he would have made night one.

Then the post against me, he's obviously seen my vote and put a statement over it, even though it was common knowledge of my alignment, and he certainly can't use the excuse of not seeing it, he said he knew SW was a mason that's why he was wanting to work alongside her, so if he knew she was a mason, to run with the ball you'd want to confirm who her partner is before you believe the claim, so he should have seen that I am the other mason but still made a point against me.

He's still my number one scum read because a lot of that post he made, majority of it is regarding other peoples games from the past, whilst meta is a useful thing, it doesn't give a full reading of what there alignment is here in this game. With Orzgin closely second.

[Kop]

Like I said; I continue to be happy voting Ozgin [where I'm currently voting], TN, or Wrong Song. My only concern with voting Wrong Song is confirmation bias and OMGUS but I still think he objectively looks terrible.

Now the more I think about it. I'm going with my first scum read and top of my scum pile.

UNVOTE: Orzgin

VOTE: Wrong Song

I'd like to see more from Orzgin and TN as those are my other two reads.

Orzgin pushed and pushed for roleclaims, and his constant rolefishing is a big no no on day one IMO, myself and SW tried to brush it off but he kept pushing it, Pysche did the same which was the reason we came out, as the whole thing just wouldn't lie. However Orzgin was doing it coming into the game after a few posts, whilst Pysche was debating a lot with SW and gave me the impression, he wasn't leaning scum, more town.

TN empty posts, lack of scumhunting, jumping wagons, if he's town, he's doing nothing to help. If he comes in with more information that can help the town, then I'm happy to reconsider, but at the minute his gamestyle in this game, It's something I don't want when it's getting nearer the end of the game, we need people to contribute and help us find scum. But at this minute in time, he's leaning more scum than he is town.

[Kop]

How were you saving your own arse? You were what L-3? You were suspected, and had the chance to post here and convince us we were wrong, you've put yourself number #1 target for me.

[Kop]

If you were town, that hammer was not town motivated, regardless of your alignment. We still had plenty of time, and you certainly didn't allow a claim from WS. Yes the wagon was there on him, but we were prepared for him to claim a role or at least post a counter arguement, all you've done is take that chance away.

[Kop]

If WS flips scum, I'm not ruling out scum bussing his partner for town cred.

[Kop]

Orzgin, seriously that last post is a load of old tosh, we voted for you then came off to put back on our number one target. If we wanted you at L-1 and a chance at a hammer, we would have done that before I unvoted for you. This is striking me as you panicking that there was a high chance of WS claiming a role and you then becoming the number one suspect, so in your mind was get rid of WS quickly whilst you had the chance and get a NK done.

[Kop]

Saul, I'm asking you to use your vig shot on Orzgin, then we'll work on TN on day 2.

That's the best course of action right as of this minute, unless we have some PR's that can give us a huge benefit.

[Kop]

VOTE: Ozgin

L-4

It's a pretty well known fact that Malakittens loves naked votes and loves to analyze wagons late-game than early game. The meta is for her to lurk early game and then get stronger down the road. She was pretty damn obvious as a PR. Also town got really lucky that game because truth be told they should have lost.

Also the first line of the second paragraph is true, but that's because you don't put the little pieces together. Which I probably should tell you to improve. (Take this as an advice it's not me being mean or anything.<3

This has zero to do with this game and makes me feel like it's a scummy attempt to try to discredit me this game. Explain what your point is with this line of talk?

it has nothing to do with this game, but was general advice, but I'm sorry you took it negatively. I'm thinking if you stopped being aggressive and took a look at people's play in general then maybe that would help pause you getting scummy PR's to out themselves. I'm not saying that it's good for people to play scummy as a PR, but not everyone can play a PR effectively if they don't roll it as much. Others have better handling certain roles, but playing a protective roles isn't easy. it's like you have the whole game on your shoulders so it's that much harder because you have to try to guess who scum are, try to counter what they are going to do etc without being super transparent. it's hard as fuck.

OK, This makes sense. I apologize for blowing up at you. You are right. I am terrible at dealing with scummy looking PR's. I also suck at being an important PR because I usually end up outing myself under pressure. My very first game here newbie 1532, I was the town tracker and outed myself due to being scumread and wagoned due to scum and town pushing me. I was pretty scummy I'll admit but I was nervous. It is extremely difficult to be a PR with night actions. What really sucked about that game is of course I was killed N2 but I tracked correctly and couldn't tell anyone because I was dead. Anyway, I do better as a VT or a PR with no night actions like mason or a BP or something. So yeah, your advice was well intentioned and I just got pissy cuz guess what? I'm also an emotional player.

No, you do not have to replace out. You feel townier than you did though. I don't get the Oddmusic scumread though. I'm confused on that one. He seems town to me and I've played with him before.

I don't know if my mason partner is going to agree with me on this one but I'd like to give you another day.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Ozgin

L-3

VOTE: Ozgin

L-2.

Oh would you take a look at that, you were soo worried that me and SW voting would put you at a hammer, but no in fact if you look at those cold hard facts, myself and SW put you at L-2 before I switched back to WS. Oh dear, where this unjiustified pressure your claiming coming from the 2 masons then....

[Kop]

All it took you to do was to come on, give us more input towards scum hunting and justify why we should think your town, but you just in time managed to come on, see WS at L-1 and you took your chance, without offering a real reason to justify yourself as town and hammered a person we were all waiting to claim and tell us why we shouldn't lynch him.

[Kop]

Except everyone had just as much willingness to vote me as they did Wrong Song.

Yeah and it was fairly simple. You were on everyones scum read for a while now, and you've not convinced us all why we should think your town, now that WS got to L-1 you've come on, looked at the situation, panicked that he would claim a role and that we then turn our attention to you, all you've done is put you number one. If WS turns to be a town PR, do you not realise the situation you have put yourself in? You simply just had to let him claim, especially if your town.

[Kop]

If I were at L-1, I'd claim absolutely anything to survive. What do you honestly think they'd claim?

Let us be the judge of that. If he were town, he'd claim his real role, if he's scum he'd have to think of a role that he believes is not in the game, but if he claims a role that is in the game, he is CC and he is lynched, one scum down. What you've done is, is making it harder for us to determine what he really was.

Now we're all sitting here like confused rabbits in headlights wondering what the hell he is.

[Kop]

And a D-2 Policy Lynch is pro-scum, too. Deal with it, I hammered, no regrets.

PEDIT:

We'll see what he is.

Oh I'm pro-scum now. SW, pro scum. Saul pro scum. If you were town, you'd allow a claim, then give us your reasons why we shouldn't lynch you, if you were scum, take one for the team.

[Kop]

He was at L-1 when you came on, if you were town, you'd not hammer, allow a claim and you'd give us your thoughts and counter arguement to all our scum reads on you.

[Kop]

Right I am here. A lot of unanswered questions and some thoughts in my mind that seriously need answering.

Some of the claims that have been put out there from day 1, need some attention. So many roles in a game of this size? I'm not fully sure. Anything is possible in mafia games, but it is seemingly over powered town to scum.

Saul you are my first port of call, you have claimed vigilante, but it appears that there is a Serial Killer in this game, now for a game of this size, a vigilante, along with SK seems to be a bit overpowering, and the lack of kills, holstering day one? Well I'm prepared to let you live to day 3, but let me assure you if there is no kill from you after night 2, I will want you lynched, and I will push you for it.

House, you claimed vengeful townie, hmmm. Does something tell me here that you have claimed this so that nobody lynches you and buys you not to be NK? Or is this something telling me that you are scum and by claiming that role, nobody will lynch you so you coast all the way through till the end? Hmmm something that I will give some thought too.

Orzgin, that hammer is still bugging me. You are my first lynch option, so let me ask you, I want you to roleclaim here, now.

[Kop]

it appears that there is a Serial Killer in this game

I'm not sure why you think this. There was only one kill last night. Unless you have been talking to SW and agree that a stabbing indicates a SK? If this is the case, the mod made it clear that flavor is purely flavor and does not reveal any game related information. Otherwise, the only way to explain a single kill would be if both the SK and the mafia targeted Psyche. By your logic regarding flavor then, Psych should have had a flavor saying he was stabbed AND shot or something like that.

I would advise not reading too much into the flavor and just assume that Psych was a mafia kill and there is no SK.

I was assuming knife equals SK. My bad.

Is there any more answers to my post that you quoted from?

SW not a bad shout about T S O, but I want to hear from Orzgin first before I decide what I want to do.

[Kop]

Orzgin
T S O
Bookitty

That's the 3 I am going to work through.

[Kop]

Is there any more answers to my post that you quoted from?

Did I miss something? I think your only concern was that I could potentially be an SK or that this game wouldn't make sense with an SK and a Vig.

I was aiming more from Houses point in that quote.

[Kop]

If I was in his position, and Orzgin is gone, I'd shoot TN, and push for a lynch of either Bookitty or T S O.

[Kop]

Our first port of call is not posting, which is haltering the process of elimination.

[Kop]

May I please be the first to VOTE: Ozgin and officially ask wtf?

See, it keeps feeling off to me that you walked in and immediately voted Ozgin, in your first post of the day, but you ...didn't shoot him.

My mind literally cannot process the depths of the thought process which led to this sequence of events.

It's already been discussed. And I've already stated, if Saul does not shoot night 2, I will push for Sauls lynch for lying. And Saul can't claim the person that was in his sights is protected, as I would like the shot to be unannounced so that scum don't know who the shot is aimed at.

[Kop]

I think personally Orzgin has read this thread as the game as been open for quite a while now, so he'll be laying low to hope that the dust settles.

I'm not liking T S O here, he seems to be pushing Saul even though we've already gone through the claim, there is very little that we can do to push it further, other than voting for him and hoping we get to L-1 before we can see a real claim if he isn't telling the truth about his role he has claimed. But then we're leaving ourselves wide open for a hammer, if we go down that route. We need to concentrate on the other options that we have and we have SW informative post to help us narrow things down. So right now, I'm switching my target from Orzgin.

VOTE: T S O

[Kop]

VOTE: Boonskiies

Putting my vote where it belongs.

The question has already been asked.

Are you trying to put yourself back on that scum list? Considering you asked why your name wasn't on the list, and to be honest, I was putting you further down the list for the time being but you are some how trying your best to put you back up there.

So please answer the question, why is your vote on Boonskiies?

[Kop]

Ozgin, since you are pretty much on the tip of everyones scum list, I still haven't seen anything that is telling me your town. Your rolefishing early in the game, devoiding giving us reads, and in general your survival hammer vote is still stinking of scum intentions, I'd like to see you role claim, here, now. This may be a bad idea in hindsight, but right at the minute, he is looking a lot likely for the next lynch, claiming a role may prevent another mis lynch.

And it could potentially give scum a harder plan on who to kill, Saul to take out his vig shot, myself and SW as confirmed townies, House with his vengeful townie, or whatever Ozgin claims.

[Kop]

UNVOTE: T S O

VOTE: TN

[Kop]

kop-see PT on that and see what I said and see if it makes sense to you

Care to let the little people in on this grand scheme?

Let's not lend a helping hand to scum now.

TN or Ozgin for the lynch today, I think those two are the best options we have right as of this moment. TN isn't doing anything to show that he is town, and from what I recall he has only tunneled Boonskiies or Bookitty it's one of them If I remember rightly, he has done nothing for the town cause, and he's pretty much on everybodies scum radar.

[Kop]

It's all fine focusing on Ozgin which we all know we have answers to questions over his play, over the course of day one. He's pretty much high on the list for lynch, regardless if we divert our attention onto others, he will not be forgotten.

I am happy to press TN for answers as he's pretty much also high up on the list, and if we were just to push for Ozgin for the lynch, we need to get some answers in preparation for day 3 that we can work on. If TN doesn't provide us with any real information that can show to us all that he is town, and has town intentions then he can go either today or day 3, which ever we decide to do.

[Kop]

Ozgin and tn, from my point of view, are quite probably both scum. But I seem to be the third player everyone's looking for, and I know that's false, so someone has infiltrated the townbloc.

Well, I feel kinda inadequate because I don't really know why we're voting tn.

Well you seem to think he is probably scum, so why don't we start with that.

Does that make you feel a little less inadequate?

[Kop]

But it seems a bit baffling considering you said he is probably scum along with Ozgin 2 pages ago, then feeling inadequate because you don't know why we're voting TN. hmmmm.

[Kop]

What is going on here.

[Kop]

I will also say that TN and Ozgin both have points in so far as we haven't done a very good job of enunciating our "cases" on them short of POE. This is something I'm hoping to rectify when I have a bit more time to dig in. But I REALLY *REALLY* want Ozgin to post some reasonable content first.

When or how long before Ozgin is prodded?

[Kop]

I agree with that. Aren't there a few others that are due a prod?

I know there is plenty of time but I think it's looking like my high town reads are the ones only posting and the scum are just lurking and not saying anything in case they incriminate themselves.

TN, Ozgin, T S O, boonskiies can we see more from youd, please

[Kop]

yep. I'll be coming in hard soon. Don't you worry.

I look forward to it.

[Kop]

What's the current vote count?

[Kop]

I think we should lynch Ozgin, but do we allow the replacement come in, read back and give us some thoughts?

[Kop]

I can see what SW is trying to say. Let's see what the replacement makes of it all, we have time on our hands, let's least let the replacement has to offer, that could alter a few things.

[Kop]

So is Ozgin getting replaced or is he still in this game?

[Kop]

I'm being replaced. I need replaced, regardless of whether or not Aero would let me come back at this point. My sincerest apologies, Aero. I picked a bad time to bite off more than I could chew.

Like what Bookitty said, good luck, take it easy.

[Kop]

VOTE: TN

It's strange that TN has his number one suspect out of his vig list, but feels he can get him lynched even though pretty much everybody is saying that TN is scum, which will obviously point to the fact that if we all believe TN is scum, we're not really going to go along with TN and lynch Boonskiies. His confidence is pretty much unfounded in all of this.

TN, have you got any real evidence that Boonskiies is definitely scum, or is it purely gut feeling?

[Kop]

UNVOTE: TN

I intend to vote for Boonskiies, but I'm not putting him at L-1 in case of a hammer before he can explain himself, and role claim.

[Kop]

yep. I'll be coming in hard soon. Don't you worry.

You posted this on Tuesday, it is now Friday and you are currently on L-2 looking to be L-1 considering I am prepared to vote for you.

So let's be hearing what you have to offer, and a role claim to go along with, so that gives us more credible reason not to lynch you. None of this pussy footing around posting, It'll be a mistake lynching me blah blah blah, let's be hearing you in full, hard as you said you would.

[Kop]

That puts Boon at L2.

To be honest, I've hammered or put down Boonskiies twice and been wrong both times. However, his playstyle is not beneficial to town and he either needs to come back here and claim or I don't know get his priorities in order.

Will ISO Boon and TN and see if I see anything.

Even if you don't see anything, offer us some thoughts, for and against, in regards to those 2. Those 2 are pretty much at the top level of everyones scum reads, and to be honest, It would be nice to have another set of eyes on this.

[Kop]

Boonskiies needs to post, quite a few do in all honesty, it's just frustrating sitting here, put a wagon on someone and they don't post, and what will make the whole thing worse, is if they flip town, they've done fuck all to help the towns case in lynching scum, and no doubt the old cliche "you wouldn't have believed me so might as well lynch me" How that goes towards your wincon is beyond me.

Come on Boonskiies we're all sitting here patiently to hear your side of the story.

[Kop]

VOTE: Ozgin

[Kop]

I didn't like one post from T S O in regards to voting for someone claiming he didn't know why we were voting for that person, and the person we were voting for was one of his scum suspects. I'll have a look through to see if I can find that post.

[Kop]

Ozgin and tn, from my point of view, are quite probably both scum. But I seem to be the third player everyone's looking for, and I know that's false, so someone has infiltrated the townbloc.

Well, I feel kinda inadequate because I don't really know why we're voting tn.

Well you seem to think he is probably scum, so why don't we start with that.

Does that make you feel a little less inadequate?

But it seems a bit baffling considering you said he is probably scum along with Ozgin 2 pages ago, then feeling inadequate because you don't know why we're voting TN. hmmmm.

These are the two posts I was talking about.

[Kop]

It was rather strange comment to make in regards to why we were voting for TN but he claims they are scum, as surely if he was one of your suspects and there is a wagon gaining momentum, you wouldn't question it, in reality.

[Kop]

I tried to keep up last night, but with plenty of beer in my system I clicked the X button before I made a complete ass out of myself.

So we've got a replacement for Ozgin, I think we should give her another day, and I say we go for our number 2 and lynch TN. He isn't helping the case by going anti town and not willing to help, which is against his wincon surely if he is town? Since he is not wanting to give us help and not disclosing information which is not helping the town cause. What makes it worse if he flips town all he has done is basically fuck the town over by doing what he is doing.

[Kop]

VOTE: Tn

[Kop]

Tn is now the strongest read for a lynch in my opinion. If your going to be anti town by holding back information, then your not going to help us when the numbers dwindle. Regardless if suspicion is high on you, if your town, you can help yourself by giving us the information that will prevent us from lynching you and give us another option, by holding it back is against your wincon and not helping town.

It's like playing football, if your not going to help your team mates you might as well be substituted for someone who is going to help the team.

[Kop]

Tn is now the strongest read for a lynch in my opinion. If your going to be anti town by holding back information, then your not going to help us when the numbers dwindle. Regardless if suspicion is high on you, if your town, you can help yourself by giving us the information that will prevent us from lynching you and give us another option, by holding it back is against your wincon and not helping town.

It's like playing football, if your not going to help your team mates you might as well be substituted for someone who is going to help the team.

[Kop]

Tn is now the strongest read for a lynch in my opinion. If your going to be anti town by holding back information, then your not going to help us when the numbers dwindle. Regardless if suspicion is high on you, if your town, you can help yourself by giving us the information that will prevent us from lynching you and give us another option, by holding it back is against your wincon and not helping town.

It's like playing football, if your not going to help your team mates you might as well be substituted for someone who is going to help the team.

[Kop]

Why has that posted three times is beyond me, apologies

[Kop]

Wolfie, I think your partner is a Scum Mason.

What gives you that impression?

[Kop]

Wolfie, I think your partner is a Scum Mason.

OMG, That means he's going to shoot me tonight.

Or maybe, he's going to manipulate me to do what he wants. I mean, it may look like sheeping but still..............................

I wouldn't shoot a lazy.

Hey, don't let my secrets out of the bag.

[Kop]

Wolfie, I think your partner is a Scum Mason.

OMG, That means he's going to shoot me tonight.

Or maybe, he's going to manipulate me to do what he wants. I mean, it may look like sheeping but still..............................

I wouldn't shoot a lazy.

Hey, don't let my secrets out of the bag.

Lazy should be lady, don't know how I hit the Z considering it's not exactly need the D.

[Kop]

Need should be Near.

I'm going to hit the X, last nights beer is seemingly coming back to the surface.

[Kop]

I'm going to hit the X, last nights beer is seemingly coming back to the surface.

Then for the love of god, lean OUT of the wagon!

Seriously, though... I get what you're saying about TN and I agree to an extent. I was happy to pressure-vote him myself. But my gut-read there is town.

I'll vote him to get a lynch, but we have time and I'm okay with my vote where it is for now.

If your gut reading him as town, you wouldn't want him lynched, regardless if it's just purely to get a lynch done. The aim of the game is to lynch scum, not just lynch for the sake of a lynch.

If I was in the predicament of wanting a lynch and the person that looked likely almost over the line, and my gut says he is town, I would rather a no lynch than just to lynch my town gut read just to get a lynch over the line.

Yeah we learn things from that lynch, wagon analysis, people arguing for and defending against, but in the long run it isn't going to help us if we keep lynching town reads just for a lynch. Potentially we could lose 2 more town over night with the NK and vigilante shot.

[Kop]

I would rather a no lynch than just to lynch my town gut read just to get a lynch over the line.

I disagree with this. My gut can be wrong. The information from the lynch wagon is more important, imo, because we aren't going to get anything like that information from a vig or a nightkill.

Well, your gut could be wrong, I think he is scum, and his play is not town IMO. So I'm liking where my vote is right now.

[Kop]

Quite honestly, I couldn't care less about your opinion of page 34 post 7. Either you're lynching tn or you're lynching Boon or you're lynching you. And you're not lynching Boon.

You might want to rephrase that with the boon you want to lynch, and the boon that you're not lynching.

[Kop]

Can we just get a lynch done like SW says, we have gone back and forth, we're been promised a lot of things and it hasn't come to fruition. We are going back and forth and I think the only way to get some answers is done by a lynch, then we have a NK and Sauls vig shot to work with the next day. Tn is the better option out of the lot, because if he flips town then that would answer a question regarding bookitty, and narrows down the pool for scum to hide in.

[Kop]

Obviously the other wagons will provide information, but I don't see a point of having a policy lynch still in the game late on, where we will be left with who do we go for, considering he's on the radar for most of the game, so there is a HIGH chance we would go for him than the other person.

[Kop]

Boonskiies, House, Elusive, Bookitty it's up to yous. Oddmusic is being replaced so he can't move his vote.